To each his own but I wouldn't put a penny in the pocket of a fascist such as Walid Phares, the author of that book. I've read quite a few of his articles and not only are they full of errors (intentional, I'm sure) but he SO dances the the tune of his own nasty right wing agenda. I also listened to one of his lectures. I had to wash my ears out with bleach afterwards. He's very good at fooling media organisations and republican politicians, though!
Ah, how typical. Trash the opposition without any consideration of the evidence without proving a single point. Anyway I don't feel like arguing politics today, too upset about Jeff Freeman's death. Enjoy living in your circle of self-assurance.
America has a good past, But a lot of it does not hold true today, I have personally lost all my patriotism in this country. And its evident that a lot of people in my city have, You no longer see american flags haing outside windows or in homes. Its just not what it once was, I am Studying psychology in college right now, And WIll move to Spain once I am done with my Masters.
To each his own but I wouldn't put a penny in the pocket of a fascist such as Walid Phares, the author of that book. I've read quite a few of his articles and not only are they full of errors (intentional, I'm sure) but he SO dances the the tune of his own nasty right wing agenda. I also listened to one of his lectures. I had to wash my ears out with bleach afterwards. He's very good at fooling media organisations and republican politicians, though!
Ah, how typical. Trash the opposition without any consideration of the evidence without proving a single point. Anyway I don't feel like arguing politics today, too upset about Jeff Freeman's death. Enjoy living in your circle of self-assurance.
He's not my opposition. Neither are you. I was simply giving my opinion of an author and why I wouldn't buy his book. I also wouldn't buy a book by L. Ron Hubbard because I think he was a fraud and fooled people into believing his self-serving rubbish. Don't be so touchy. Sorry you're upset. I liked Jeff Freeman, too.
To each his own but I wouldn't put a penny in the pocket of a fascist such as Walid Phares, the author of that book. I've read quite a few of his articles and not only are they full of errors (intentional, I'm sure) but he SO dances the the tune of his own nasty right wing agenda. I also listened to one of his lectures. I had to wash my ears out with bleach afterwards. He's very good at fooling media organisations and republican politicians, though!
Ah, how typical. Trash the opposition without any consideration of the evidence without proving a single point. Anyway I don't feel like arguing politics today, too upset about Jeff Freeman's death. Enjoy living in your circle of self-assurance.
He's not my opposition. Neither are you. I was simply giving my opinion of an author and why I wouldn't buy his book. I also wouldn't buy a book by L. Ron Hubbard because I think he was a fraud and fooled people into believing his self-serving rubbish. Don't be so touchy. Sorry you're upset. I liked Jeff Freeman, too.
I'm not the least bit touchy about what you said. In fact, I am always amused when I see how poorly people argue around here. If you believe he is a "fascist" , show us some evidence. Define how you are using that word and give us some examples of where he has advocated fascism.
If you claim his books are "full of errors," prove it by showing them. If you feel he has some nasty "right wing agenda" show us where he has demonstrated that. You certainly are opposition to anyone who believe in using reason for greater understanding -- judging by your tactics. YOUR tactics in your own post are far shabbier than ANYTHING I've ever seen from him.
By behaving such, you made your own position not worth paying attention to.
My being upset about Jeff's death has nothing to do with criticizing your shabby argumentation. That's just crap any day of the week. What is even more amusing is that then, when criticized, you turn on ME and call me touchy, when all I did was show how badly YOU are arguing something. All you have shown is that you are yourself guilty of everything you have accused him of, which is very telling.
Now, all that being said, can you prove your case?
Great topic but on a grim note Abundance of Talent, Resources, and Opportunity I have an abundance of talent, i do. Do not have much resources, but I am sure i can find them if it gets bad enough. You guys legislated me out of opportunity about 28 years ago. Liberty? Every time I have someone tell me I can't do that, I think I was once free. Thanks a lot. The Hardest Working Labor Force in Human History Way back when they used to have real work. You know when there were farmers that fed you and loggers that provided for our home builders. Car makers, the best cars. The textile works and a steel industry, there was no competition. Today I see office workers, clerks, administrative staff and computer geeks. You guys ever have to do real work you will be in a serious pile of.... glad I do not have to work. Why don't you all come join me. It will be fun. The Constitution: Most Important Political Document in Human History Okay you will have to cut me a little slack here. I lived back in a day when you could walk out your front door with a loaded rifle and track down in the backwoods and shoot me some..... Today you will get shot. I used to go up in the mountains and drive into the sun. Now I run into gates or get told to leave because it is not open to the public. When I talk to public officials they send my emails back telling me they don't like me and refuse to take my mail any longer. If I write my Senator a hard copy letter opposing a Bill that she is for, she sends me a letter back thanking me for supporting her position. So as you can see I am pretty optimistic you are all screwed, but I'll be okay cause you guys already had them do to me what they will be doing to you before much longer. This was a refreshing topic, Thank you OP.
skyrockstock you are the man, /salute an old schooler like me, may you always have enough and be blessed in all your endevours. It's like your reading my mind...
Constitutional Rights There is a third grade teacher, or a popular movie that I have never seen, in which people think that their Constitutionally protected rights are not being impacted unless people are "pulled aside and set to waste in prison." The resources to do that are not even there. Yes. The judicial process has been undermined, and the writ of habeaus corpus taken-away, so it is more cost-effective to imprision people without supervision of the Judiciary. YOU are the problem, though. YOU as a voter. I blame YOU, not Bush. Why? You do not read, or understand, the Constitution. You do not read, or understand, the United States Code or the penal code. You just think you are a "free" if you are not "pulled aside and set to waste in a prison." Because of that, YOU as a voter have failed in your Constitutional duty to protect and defend the Constitution.
Iraq Wait until we cannot bribe people to stop fighting. The fighting will resume. It is sad to have to have to be politically correct and say, "the surge is working." The truth, "Iraq is a failure, and it will become obvious again when we can no longer afford to pay-off our enemies to stop fighting themselves and us."
Illegal Immigration It is popular to blame illegal immigrants. Get rid of them, and if you think YOU are being exploited now because of farm aid, paying farmers not to farm, and energy companies using ethanol, wait until YOUR prices go up when no one is able to pick lettuce.
If you thought farmers were greedy and feeding off the government before, just wait to see how greedy they get when they lose cheap labor.
YOU will pay for it. But you pay for everything already (even bail-outs).
We are Free Because We Play Video Games, Travel, and "Pursue Life"? What? Speaking of illegal immigration, it was Bush Admin's who changed the rules that required travelers going from Canada and Mexico to wait in lines and show passports. YOU wait in line and show a passport as an illegal crosses outside of customs.
Optimism The average American is, finally, in my view, waking-up. I was waiting for them to have their social security, which they are DOUBLED taxed on, to be taken-away, reduced, or something before they got mad. The good news is that the economy is bad enough, they lost so many homes, and so many policies have not worked they are started to get "involved."
I am optimistic!
Edit: Maybe Sarah Palin will come and somehow "clean-up" Washington and "fix" everything! lol.
Rights: There are no rights if you have no country left to defend. You feel theoretics is enough to determine when your rights are being violated but I need action or some kind of evidence to convince me. That's the reason I brought the whole prison issue up.
If you need an example from the past about a Republican, since they seem to be so mistrusted here, then I'll bring out an example of Abraham Lincoln. President Lincoln actually threw govenors of neutral states in jail to stop them from secceeding in Civil War times. While times can be different this is a case of where security had to be implemented and resulted in one less headache during a crisis.
Iraq: Really? I've never heard of that and wonder if there's proof to that. As of this moment I don't hear of the failure the other side is wanting to believe. I do see rewinds of Obama saying the surge isn't working and various officials and a general saying the surge has worked.
Illegal Immigration: Yes that same illegal immigration takes away American jobs that some want believe it or not and causes drastic changes in the country itself. One should never have to learn a different language in the country they're born in. Travel down Houston and tell me if you don't see Spanish signs all over the place. You'll see the jobs are just not farming either. The damage of NAFTA is ever apparent.
Before someone tries to call that racist if I went to Japan I'd expect to have to learn Japanese and not the Japanese to learn English. Immigrants should adapt to the country and not the other way around. That's why legal immigration is important and immigrants wanting about the country they should adapt to is ever more so.
On Freedom: It really falls back to what I said on rights but I'll comment here too. It's actually people deciding to attack innocent civilians on that day in New York that were the cause of any lines at the borders. The other side has seem to forgot that day but some of us sure the hell haven't.
Optimism: I will be the most optimistic when there is the less goverment the better. We need the goverment to defend us through military action or just action when the need so arises. Otherwise they should just try to stay out of everyday citizen life as much as possible.
Furthermore they should fund their own way through things. Seem to work when there wasn't even electricity around and don't see why they can't go down this road as much as they can. We don't need goverment transfering middle class money to the corporations just to bail them out their greedy high interest rate loan failures.
I'm not going to address the issue of understanding anything. You should know why too.
LOL you're kidding right? Do you seriously believe that this is true of modern day America? This is a hedonistic and greedy society now. The unity and pull together line will last a few weeks at most. At most.
The Constitution: Most Important Political Document in Human History
Doesn't mean anything if you can't defend it or stand up for it. It has been run over, even deemed "just a piece of paper" by our own President, so often that I doubt it will ever recover at this point.
As for your trio of things that will pass, well it has been about 100 years now. Are you sure they are going to pass?
The US Constitution is a great document...no question.
The Magna Carta tops it though.
And as for as Constitutions go...now? It is a mediocre document. Plenty of other countries have produced far more compelling and authoritative Constitutions since then. In terms of civil rights and remedies the Canadian Constitution completely trumps the US's version.
I was about to bring up the Magna Carta till I saw your post. It laid the foundation for Democracy. I think the Constitution is the most important document for the last 230 years. In its basic form it sets up all the freedoms we need.
As for Canada the first constitution didnt take place till after the civil war and the second one took place in 1982. Both of which took place after a major civil rights event.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day. And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
What we need is a world war. That would bring jobs and get the economy on track.
We are already in one, just people are afraid to admit it, because it might hurt Democrats. In some ways we have been in one since 1979, when Iran declared us an enemy and the "Great Satan." In some ways this is WW0, since it's been going on since 620 AD or so.
They outright declared it in 2006 as well.
Planes and death trap buildings from those planes ramming into them were the sign of a declaration if there ever was one.
You now see Russia, China, and their allies beginning to very slowly play their hand. The main body that supplied the hand being nations like Iran sending their minions inside Iraq to kill US soldiers which are standing their ground while succeeding at the same time.
Who knows though? Maybe one day the parts of the world that hate the United States and disagree with the US defending itself will see they're just human too and won't achieve perfection either in their actions.
What we need is a world war. That would bring jobs and get the economy on track.
We are already in one, just people are afraid to admit it, because it might hurt Democrats. In some ways we have been in one since 1979, when Iran declared us an enemy and the "Great Satan." In some ways this is WW0, since it's been going on since 620 AD or so.
They outright declared it in 2006 as well.
Planes and death trap buildings from those planes ramming into them were the sign of a declaration if there ever was one.
You now see Russia, China, and their allies beginning to very slowly play their hand. The main body that supplied the hand being nations like Iran sending their minions inside Iraq to kill US soldiers which are standing their ground while succeeding at the same time.
Who knows though? Maybe one day the parts of the world that hate the United States and disagree with the US defending itself will see they're just human too and won't achieve perfection either in their actions.
Funny way to defend youself, illegally invading other countries, must hurt your head trying to look through the perspective of another country besides the US.
What we need is a world war. That would bring jobs and get the economy on track.
We are already in one, just people are afraid to admit it, because it might hurt Democrats. In some ways we have been in one since 1979, when Iran declared us an enemy and the "Great Satan." In some ways this is WW0, since it's been going on since 620 AD or so.
They outright declared it in 2006 as well.
Planes and death trap buildings from those planes ramming into them were the sign of a declaration if there ever was one.
You now see Russia, China, and their allies beginning to very slowly play their hand. The main body that supplied the hand being nations like Iran sending their minions inside Iraq to kill US soldiers which are standing their ground while succeeding at the same time.
Who knows though? Maybe one day the parts of the world that hate the United States and disagree with the US defending itself will see they're just human too and won't achieve perfection either in their actions.
Funny way to defend youself, illegally invading other countries, must hurt your head trying to look through the perspective of another country besides the US.
If I remember right, Howard from Australia was behind the USA , along with Congress, Bill Clinton, Tony Blair, and the UN with 16 santions, all off the top of my head. Of course the historicaly challenged will deny everything.
If I remember right, Howard from Australia was behind the USA , along with Congress, Bill Clinton, Tony Blair, and the UN with 16 santions, all off the top of my head. Of course the historicaly challenged will deny everything.
The real power in Australia is the Governor-General, and there is no Bill of Rights in Australia as is understood in the United States.
Funny way to defend youself, illegally invading other countries, must hurt your head trying to look through the perspective of another country besides the US.
You mean invading other countries with goverments that slaughter their own civilians? Nah would probably hurt an outlander's head too much to see that perspective.
You can think what you want but I happen to like other parts of the world. Even though I've never been able to visit them. Though if an outsider to the US wants to act confrontational I won't hesitate to stand my ground.
What we need is a world war. That would bring jobs and get the economy on track.
We are already in one, just people are afraid to admit it, because it might hurt Democrats. In some ways we have been in one since 1979, when Iran declared us an enemy and the "Great Satan." In some ways this is WW0, since it's been going on since 620 AD or so.
They outright declared it in 2006 as well.
Planes and death trap buildings from those planes ramming into them were the sign of a declaration if there ever was one.
You now see Russia, China, and their allies beginning to very slowly play their hand. The main body that supplied the hand being nations like Iran sending their minions inside Iraq to kill US soldiers which are standing their ground while succeeding at the same time.
Who knows though? Maybe one day the parts of the world that hate the United States and disagree with the US defending itself will see they're just human too and won't achieve perfection either in their actions.
Funny way to defend youself, illegally invading other countries, must hurt your head trying to look through the perspective of another country besides the US.
First, he was already in violation of the terms of surrender, so it was far from illegal. Second, he was in violation of many UN resolutions, so it was far from illegal. Second, when a man is raping a woman, is it illegal to take him down? Of course not. If a man is raping a nation, is it illegal to take HIM down? Of course not. Dictators have no right to sovereignty and responsible parties have every legal right to bring the down, ESPECIALLY when the first two things I mentioned are occurring as well.
The only question in such situations is: is it PRUDENT? one can argue that nations have better use for their blood and treasure than invading and overthrowing dictators, One can argue that it makes more enemies than friends. One can argue that those people aren't WORTH it (which is what most people REALLY mean).
I disagree, in this case, but at least those are reasonable arguments.
Illegal? hardly. I am looking at this through the perspective as a citizen of a world. A world that ought to be free. I don't understand how anyone who lives and was raised in freedom anywhere can't feel the same way, in his heart.
What we need is a world war. That would bring jobs and get the economy on track.
We are already in one, just people are afraid to admit it, because it might hurt Democrats. In some ways we have been in one since 1979, when Iran declared us an enemy and the "Great Satan." In some ways this is WW0, since it's been going on since 620 AD or so.
They outright declared it in 2006 as well.
Planes and death trap buildings from those planes ramming into them were the sign of a declaration if there ever was one.
You now see Russia, China, and their allies beginning to very slowly play their hand. The main body that supplied the hand being nations like Iran sending their minions inside Iraq to kill US soldiers which are standing their ground while succeeding at the same time.
Who knows though? Maybe one day the parts of the world that hate the United States and disagree with the US defending itself will see they're just human too and won't achieve perfection either in their actions.
Funny way to defend youself, illegally invading other countries, must hurt your head trying to look through the perspective of another country besides the US.
I see your perspective everytime the whacko's go into the streets and burn the cities down. That kind of good living we are trying to avoid in America.
None I repeat None of the rest of the World would be prospering if it wasn't for America and its peoples struggle to lift the world up. You have a voice in the World because America has provided a way for you to have a voice.
We have come to the aid of your lands how many times?
You are doing the same thing with Iran, that you did with Iraq. Nothing, but talk. What do you think we are going to do, set here and wait for the threat to come to fruition while a bunch of lily-liver tea tottlers set warming benches.
Maybe we should come home. We can do like the rest of your friends. We can raise our nukes and tell you haters we are going to wipe you off the planet. Would that be to more of your liking if we play by the rules of your friends that threaten U.S.?
Akmadinajad is next. You can save him. You can take all that peace you have wrapped up in you and get after it. Go talk to that friggen moron. You are just as big a satan to him as he thinks we are. You are just a pawn to him, a smaller fish not ready to catch.
Illegal. pfft America does not require permission to defend itself from its enemies or its sympathizers.
We gave Sadaam 10 years to come clean and we knew we were going after Al Queda and we knew Sadaam was the biggest potential threat in the region with probable wmd's. So did your Nation and the other Nations and Sadaam boasted of it and up to the last minute was offered a way out.
The difference between America and the World is the World would have America's army be in jeopardy to the possibility of Sadaam supplying Al Queda with wmd's and America was not willing. We protected our troops by eliminating the threat. You are no friend to America and we could give diarhea for what you think about it.
Watch what you say, you may need a friend one day.
And let's snap back to reality now, where most people on earth don't give a shit about the consitution(most important political document to humankind... haha) and where do you actually get the whole americas has the best workforce in the world? There are contries that make more money per capita than USA. America is great and all, no question about it, but you make it sound like your a bunch of superheroes.
No, nothing super about our heroic nature. Just simple humans acting in freedom. Anyone can do it, if they are free -- and to the extent that they are -- they do. Maybe if more people on earth gave a sh*t about the Constitution, maybe their wouldn't be so much tyranny and human slavery in the world.
Our own failures have been a direct result of our own government ignoring that document.
As to best workforce...even an American hating organization like the United Nations admits we have the highest productivity of any nation on earth.
The United Nations is an American institution you divot.
And no offense but Indians and Chinese work harder than you lot for less. That's why you are losing all your jobs to them. (Try not to post links if you haven't actually read them).
The American constittuion allows slavery. The Magna Carta is the document that ended it worldwide, including in your country. You didn't stop out of choice, we made you.
Your own failures have been a result of your humanity. Everyone has failures. Every person. Every people. It has sod all to do with your precious constitution. That's just a piece of paper.
Like Jackolt says, America is great and all........
But if you were thinking you got where you are in the last 70 years be rights of being smarter and more hard working you are off your rocker son.
You got where you are because everyone else blew eachother up and you were out of range. The only industrialised country to come out of 2 world wars unscathed while the rest of world's industry lay crippled.
You have done well, you have made your hay. That was your time in history. Try not to mistake it for something it isn't.
Funny way to defend youself, illegally invading other countries, must hurt your head trying to look through the perspective of another country besides the US.
You mean invading other countries with goverments that slaughter their own civilians? Nah would probably hurt an outlander's head too much to see that perspective.
Why don't you kill your own government then, your government has slaughtered it's own civilians three times in history so far.
No offense but this is quite probably the lamest propaganda out there.
In a civil war, in a revolutiion, the people you are killing aren't "your own civilians". It doesn't take an "outlander" to work that out.
I find it amusingly ironic that the only reason Saddam was ever in power was because the good ole US of A put him there, OH SHIT WE FORGOT ABOUT THAT DIDN'T WE.
I find it amusingly ironic that Saddam could've been stopped in the first gulf war when the US, yes thats right the US PROMISED the Kurdish rebels that they would help them, nope they pulled out and left them like sitting ducks and further more prevented them from marching onto the capital. What resulted was 10s of thousands of Kurds being gased by Saddam, oh shit we forgot that didn't we.
I find it amusingly ironic that most civilians in Iraq are under more hardship than they ever were under Saddam and that more have died than Saddam could have ever achieved in his lifetime.
I like patriotism I really do, but all of yours is hollow. Makes me sick. You may have fought a noble cause in WW2 but what a fall from grace.
And let's snap back to reality now, where most people on earth don't give a shit about the consitution(most important political document to humankind... haha) and where do you actually get the whole americas has the best workforce in the world? There are contries that make more money per capita than USA. America is great and all, no question about it, but you make it sound like your a bunch of superheroes.
No, nothing super about our heroic nature. Just simple humans acting in freedom. Anyone can do it, if they are free -- and to the extent that they are -- they do. Maybe if more people on earth gave a sh*t about the Constitution, maybe their wouldn't be so much tyranny and human slavery in the world.
Our own failures have been a direct result of our own government ignoring that document.
As to best workforce...even an American hating organization like the United Nations admits we have the highest productivity of any nation on earth.
The United Nations is an American institution you divot.
And no offense but Indians and Chinese work harder than you lot for less. That's why you are losing all your jobs to them. (Try not to post links if you haven't actually read them).
The American constittuion allows slavery. The Magna Carta is the document that ended it worldwide, including in your country. You didn't stop out of choice, we made you.
Your own failures have been a result of your humanity. Everyone has failures. Every person. Every people. It has sod all to do with your precious constitution. That's just a piece of paper.
Like Jackolt says, America is great and all........
But if you were thinking you got where you are in the last 70 years be rights of being smarter and more hard working you are off your rocker son.
You got where you are because everyone else blew eachother up and you were out of range. The only industrialised country to come out of 2 world wars unscathed while the rest of world's industry lay crippled.
You have done well, you have made your hay. That was your time in history. Try not to mistake it for something it isn't.
The United Nations was started and is largely funded by America, but it is as America-hating as many other institutions in a free society.Freedom permits hatred -- like yours.
The Chinese have a lower producutvity rating than America; period -- at least by how we measure such things in economics. That is the only way to measure who word "harder" without falling into the subjectivity that you are.
The magna carta hasn't ended slavery worldwide -- slavery still exists in most of the world. IUt and all documents of free peoples everywhere stand testament against it; but none of them have "ended slavery,: sadly.
The magna carta permitted slavery until William Wilberforce and other British Christians led an abolotion movement in England. Similarly, the American Constitution permitted slavery until other Christians led the abolition movement here, The people ended it, because they came to recognise that black people were people and therefore COVERED under the Constitution.
We got where we were, as everyone everywhere has gotten where they are, because of freedom.
It is interesting you say "America is great and all..." then spit hate at her, when I haven't done that in the least to YOUR country, whichever country that is. That at least shows THIS American has more grace than you. I attribute THAT to MY free society, with all its warts and flaws, At least it taught me how to respect others.
Pity yours did not, or at least you did not learn that lesson.
Funny way to defend youself, illegally invading other countries, must hurt your head trying to look through the perspective of another country besides the US.
You mean invading other countries with goverments that slaughter their own civilians? Nah would probably hurt an outlander's head too much to see that perspective.
Why don't you kill your own government then, your government has slaughtered it's own civilians three times in history so far.
No offense but this is quite probably the lamest propaganda out there.
In a civil war, in a revolutiion, the people you are killing aren't "your own civilians". It doesn't take an "outlander" to work that out.
So Sadam Hussein was a legitimate leader because others have done wrong? And all those people he murdered and gassed were merely the victims of a Civila War? Okay, now I undertstand your opinion better.
I find it amusingly ironic that the only reason Saddam was ever in power was because the good ole US of A put him there, OH SHIT WE FORGOT ABOUT THAT DIDN'T WE. I find it amusingly ironic that Saddam could've been stopped in the first gulf war when the US, yes thats right the US PROMISED the Kurdish rebels that they would help them, nope they pulled out and left them like sitting ducks and further more prevented them from marching onto the capital. What resulted was 10s of thousands of Kurds being gased by Saddam, oh shit we forgot that didn't we. I find it amusingly ironic that most civilians in Iraq are under more hardship than they ever were under Saddam and that more have died than Saddam could have ever achieved in his lifetime. I like patriotism I really do, but all of yours is hollow. Makes me sick. You may have fought a noble cause in WW2 but what a fall from grace.
So when we try and recitfy failed policies of the past, it's wrong?
One problem is our naive belief, in the United States, that the military is the end-all, be-all and do-all institution of the USA.
This is sense of superman military has created tremendous costs for the American people and has lead to a lot of working-class and lower-middle class kids getting killed here, there, and all over the world.
We do have the best military, but we have to stop seeing the military as a solution to everything; it is, if it not apparent now it never will be, capable of everything.
amusingly ironic that the only reason Saddam was ever in power was because the good ole US of A put him there, OH SHIT WE FORGOT ABOUT THAT DIDN'T WE.
Now,
I suppose you think it would have been better for that region to allow Iran to roll over Iraq. The evidence shows we supplied mediocre equipment to hold off a bad guy that happened to be attempting an over throw of Iraq. The World did not need an Iran twice its size setting on Kuwaits and Saudi Arabia's borders.
So what if we influenced the out come. We had no reason to believe that an Individual, Sadaam back in 1980 who was Defending his country would rise up against Kuwait. But we Did know that if Iran won that conflict the bigger threat would become a much more unmanageable threat.
So what was America responsible for? Putting an end to a 12 year conflict without having to militarily supply the man power to do it.
What did we leave behind after providing Iraq the equipment for it, as you want to call it an "Army"? An Iraq. as free as it was before Iran stuck its nose out. The army of Sadaam you claim America built was no Army. When we sent an Army into Iraq that equipment was put down in one sweep and the people were rounded up.
America did not cause Sadaam to take the defense that was provided to maintain its borders so Sadaam could invade Kuwait. America begged him not to invade Kuwait. America stood up for Iraq when attacked by Iran. America stood up for Kuwait. when attacked by Iraq.
You say,
I find it amusingly ironic that Saddam could've been stopped in the first gulf war when the US, yes thats right the US PROMISED the Kurdish rebels that they would help them, nope they pulled out and left them like sitting ducks and further more prevented them from marching onto the capital. What resulted was 10s of thousands of Kurds being gased by Saddam, oh shit we forgot that didn't we.
Well,
I am not familiar with any Treaties we had with Iraqi kurds, I don't know what was promised them. I also don't know if that any promises of help that were made were not kept but rather provided in ways you and I are not privy to. I do know, but as recently as 2 years ago the Iraqi Kurds asked for U.S. help help against Turkey forces. For them to ask for help of Americans is testament in itself where they turn in times of trouble. If Turkey were to gas the Iraqi Kurds, (not saying they would) but if they did, I guess by your standards it would be America's fault.
America did not provide Sadaam with the gas to gas the Kurds. Americas mission in supplying Sadaam was to hold off Iran. America was not there to involve itself in domestic Iraqi issues between one tribe or another. America was there to keep the region manageable for the defense of the world and to contain a regime that threatens it.
What Sadaam did after America's intervention was not in America's crystal ball. Why didn't you and the rest of the World reveal that it was in yours.
You say,
I find it amusingly ironic that most civilians in Iraq are under more hardship than they ever were under Saddam and that more have died than Saddam could have ever achieved in his lifetime.
Well
that may or may not be true. That depends on what town in Iraq you make that assumption that they are better off. After we get through uncovering the mass grave sites we can determine whether Sadaams continued political and religious cleansing would have been better for Iraq than it will be to live free and Govern their own lives.. Ultimately it will be up to the people of Iraq. When we leave there the Iraqis will be self determinant. They will have the choice to take their country any direction they want. Where they take and the out come of where they take their Nation will be their business until their business encroaches on the business of the World.
You say,
I like patriotism I really do, but all of yours is hollow. Makes me sick. You may have fought a noble cause in WW2 but what a fall from grace.
Well,
I appreciate your patriotism. I do find your box hollow however. You may do well thinking outside of it once in a while. It makes me sick that there are bench warmers that always have the better way after the fact. There will always be a better way to have done things.
Mistakes will always rise up when addressing a problem. WW2 did not end the Worlds problems. We are still in that Noble struggle and if you stepped out of the hollow box you are in you might see it. While we do the right thing keeping the hitlers at bay, you should be waxing your crystal ball so we can tell the out come of our actions in order to prevent any future mishaps.
The United Nations was started and is largely funded by America, but it is as America-hating as many other institutions in a free society.Freedom permits hatred -- like yours. The Chinese have a lower producutvity rating than America; period -- at least by how we measure such things in economics. That is the only way to measure who word "harder" without falling into the subjectivity that you are. The magna carta hasn't ended slavery worldwide -- slavery still exists in most of the world. IUt and all documents of free peoples everywhere stand testament against it; but none of them have "ended slavery,: sadly. The magna carta permitted slavery until William Wilberforce and other British Christians led an abolotion movement in England. Similarly, the American Constitution permitted slavery until other Christians led the abolition movement here, The people ended it, because they came to recognise that black people were people and therefore COVERED under the Constitution. We got where we were, as everyone everywhere has gotten where they are, because of freedom. It is interesting you say "America is great and all..." then spit hate at her, when I haven't done that in the least to YOUR country, whichever country that is. That at least shows THIS American has more grace than you. I attribute THAT to MY free society, with all its warts and flaws, At least it taught me how to respect others. Pity yours did not, or at least you did not learn that lesson.
I don't live in a free society that permits hatred. I live in one where hatred is a crime.
I am explaining history to you. Not spitting and not hating. I'm pretty sure that I havent discussed any personal hatred of America in this thread, or any other. The GRACE you are exhibiting seems more like paranoia from my angle.
The Magna Carta fromalised in Law the abolishment of lsavery in England in 1215. There had however been no slavery here for the 800 years preceding that. It did not end slavery as much as recognise the already common law human rights of the country inthe form of a written constitution that could be refered to in a court of law..
There has been no slavery here since the Romans left around 400 AD, the Magna Carta did not permit it. You have been misinformed.
How you measure productivity is a method which places you at the top of the ladder. There are as many other methods as there are people. How other people measure productivity is likely to be rather different. We can all find statistics that place us at the top of the pile.
Slavery doesn't still exist in most of the world. What nonsense. There are very few places indeed where slavery exists, and those places tend to have British warships patrolling their coasts, just as your country used to when it still did.
You like to think you came around to banning slavery on your own accord, but that's not the case. We wouldn't trade with you and we sunk your slave ships. We embargoed and blockaded your ports until you gave it up.
Thats why the north banned it first. Because they were the ones that were making all the money on international trade.
You talk about respecting other people and yet you clearly don't.
You attribute their contributions to humanity as your own and you make wild claims about how superior your workforce and country is due to it's "freedom" and superior political idealogy. Perhaps you are suggesting that other peoples idea's of a free society are not as good as yours? Is this respect? No. It is the opposite. It is arrogance. Self belief above all else. Above all others. Xenophobia.
Whether you like it or not your constitution recognised that people were people and slaves were slaves. (And that native indians weren't people at all). You might like to claim the end to slavery as a great act of humanity your society brought to the world, but the historical truth of the matter is, you didn't. You were unwilling and had to be forced to participate in it's demise. Your people came to see it as the way forward because all the decision makers had their incomes severed by an external military force until they agreed.
This is your history. You can look at it through rosey eyed spectacles if you like. Wherever possible I like to do the same about my own.
From the outset, slavery was a vital economic component of the British Empire in the Americas. Until the abolition of the slave trade in 1807, Britain was responsible for the transportation of 3.5 million African slaves to the Americas, a third of all slaves transported across the Atlantic.[19] To facilitate this trade, forts were established on the coast of West Africa, such as James Island, Accra and Bunce Island. In the British Caribbean, the percentage of the population comprising blacks rose from 25% in 1650 to around 80% in 1780.
British started it and brought it to America. It took Americans approximately 60 years to put that behind U.S.
Just because you make false accusations does not make them true.
YA ya I know, because America had 60 years of slavery under their watch is why Americans are responsible for all the slavery the last 6000 years. Damn U.S Americans.
Comments
Ah, how typical. Trash the opposition without any consideration of the evidence without proving a single point. Anyway I don't feel like arguing politics today, too upset about Jeff Freeman's death. Enjoy living in your circle of self-assurance.
fishermage.blogspot.com
America has a good past, But a lot of it does not hold true today, I have personally lost all my patriotism in this country. And its evident that a lot of people in my city have, You no longer see american flags haing outside windows or in homes. Its just not what it once was, I am Studying psychology in college right now, And WIll move to Spain once I am done with my Masters.
Ah, how typical. Trash the opposition without any consideration of the evidence without proving a single point. Anyway I don't feel like arguing politics today, too upset about Jeff Freeman's death. Enjoy living in your circle of self-assurance.
He's not my opposition. Neither are you. I was simply giving my opinion of an author and why I wouldn't buy his book. I also wouldn't buy a book by L. Ron Hubbard because I think he was a fraud and fooled people into believing his self-serving rubbish. Don't be so touchy. Sorry you're upset. I liked Jeff Freeman, too.
It is senators like Kaptur and Burgess that give me hope for this country.
www.youtube.com/watch
www.youtube.com/watch
www.youtube.com/watch
Ah, how typical. Trash the opposition without any consideration of the evidence without proving a single point. Anyway I don't feel like arguing politics today, too upset about Jeff Freeman's death. Enjoy living in your circle of self-assurance.
He's not my opposition. Neither are you. I was simply giving my opinion of an author and why I wouldn't buy his book. I also wouldn't buy a book by L. Ron Hubbard because I think he was a fraud and fooled people into believing his self-serving rubbish. Don't be so touchy. Sorry you're upset. I liked Jeff Freeman, too.
I'm not the least bit touchy about what you said. In fact, I am always amused when I see how poorly people argue around here. If you believe he is a "fascist" , show us some evidence. Define how you are using that word and give us some examples of where he has advocated fascism.
If you claim his books are "full of errors," prove it by showing them. If you feel he has some nasty "right wing agenda" show us where he has demonstrated that. You certainly are opposition to anyone who believe in using reason for greater understanding -- judging by your tactics. YOUR tactics in your own post are far shabbier than ANYTHING I've ever seen from him.
By behaving such, you made your own position not worth paying attention to.
My being upset about Jeff's death has nothing to do with criticizing your shabby argumentation. That's just crap any day of the week. What is even more amusing is that then, when criticized, you turn on ME and call me touchy, when all I did was show how badly YOU are arguing something. All you have shown is that you are yourself guilty of everything you have accused him of, which is very telling.
Now, all that being said, can you prove your case?
fishermage.blogspot.com
skyrockstock you are the man, /salute an old schooler like me, may you always have enough and be blessed in all your endevours. It's like your reading my mind...
Rights: There are no rights if you have no country left to defend. You feel theoretics is enough to determine when your rights are being violated but I need action or some kind of evidence to convince me. That's the reason I brought the whole prison issue up.
If you need an example from the past about a Republican, since they seem to be so mistrusted here, then I'll bring out an example of Abraham Lincoln. President Lincoln actually threw govenors of neutral states in jail to stop them from secceeding in Civil War times. While times can be different this is a case of where security had to be implemented and resulted in one less headache during a crisis.
Iraq: Really? I've never heard of that and wonder if there's proof to that. As of this moment I don't hear of the failure the other side is wanting to believe. I do see rewinds of Obama saying the surge isn't working and various officials and a general saying the surge has worked.
Illegal Immigration: Yes that same illegal immigration takes away American jobs that some want believe it or not and causes drastic changes in the country itself. One should never have to learn a different language in the country they're born in. Travel down Houston and tell me if you don't see Spanish signs all over the place. You'll see the jobs are just not farming either. The damage of NAFTA is ever apparent.
Before someone tries to call that racist if I went to Japan I'd expect to have to learn Japanese and not the Japanese to learn English. Immigrants should adapt to the country and not the other way around. That's why legal immigration is important and immigrants wanting about the country they should adapt to is ever more so.
On Freedom: It really falls back to what I said on rights but I'll comment here too. It's actually people deciding to attack innocent civilians on that day in New York that were the cause of any lines at the borders. The other side has seem to forgot that day but some of us sure the hell haven't.
Optimism: I will be the most optimistic when there is the less goverment the better. We need the goverment to defend us through military action or just action when the need so arises. Otherwise they should just try to stay out of everyday citizen life as much as possible.
Furthermore they should fund their own way through things. Seem to work when there wasn't even electricity around and don't see why they can't go down this road as much as they can. We don't need goverment transfering middle class money to the corporations just to bail them out their greedy high interest rate loan failures.
I'm not going to address the issue of understanding anything. You should know why too.
AC2 Player RIP Final Death Jan 31st 2017
Refugee of Auberean
Refugee of Dereth
We only have the resources.
LOL you're kidding right? Do you seriously believe that this is true of modern day America? This is a hedonistic and greedy society now. The unity and pull together line will last a few weeks at most. At most.
Doesn't mean anything if you can't defend it or stand up for it. It has been run over, even deemed "just a piece of paper" by our own President, so often that I doubt it will ever recover at this point.
As for your trio of things that will pass, well it has been about 100 years now. Are you sure they are going to pass?
The US Constitution is a great document...no question.
The Magna Carta tops it though.
And as for as Constitutions go...now? It is a mediocre document. Plenty of other countries have produced far more compelling and authoritative Constitutions since then. In terms of civil rights and remedies the Canadian Constitution completely trumps the US's version.
I was about to bring up the Magna Carta till I saw your post. It laid the foundation for Democracy. I think the Constitution is the most important document for the last 230 years. In its basic form it sets up all the freedoms we need.
As for Canada the first constitution didnt take place till after the civil war and the second one took place in 1982. Both of which took place after a major civil rights event.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
We are already in one, just people are afraid to admit it, because it might hurt Democrats. In some ways we have been in one since 1979, when Iran declared us an enemy and the "Great Satan." In some ways this is WW0, since it's been going on since 620 AD or so.
They outright declared it in 2006 as well.
Planes and death trap buildings from those planes ramming into them were the sign of a declaration if there ever was one.
You now see Russia, China, and their allies beginning to very slowly play their hand. The main body that supplied the hand being nations like Iran sending their minions inside Iraq to kill US soldiers which are standing their ground while succeeding at the same time.
Who knows though? Maybe one day the parts of the world that hate the United States and disagree with the US defending itself will see they're just human too and won't achieve perfection either in their actions.
AC2 Player RIP Final Death Jan 31st 2017
Refugee of Auberean
Refugee of Dereth
We are already in one, just people are afraid to admit it, because it might hurt Democrats. In some ways we have been in one since 1979, when Iran declared us an enemy and the "Great Satan." In some ways this is WW0, since it's been going on since 620 AD or so.
They outright declared it in 2006 as well.
Planes and death trap buildings from those planes ramming into them were the sign of a declaration if there ever was one.
You now see Russia, China, and their allies beginning to very slowly play their hand. The main body that supplied the hand being nations like Iran sending their minions inside Iraq to kill US soldiers which are standing their ground while succeeding at the same time.
Who knows though? Maybe one day the parts of the world that hate the United States and disagree with the US defending itself will see they're just human too and won't achieve perfection either in their actions.
Funny way to defend youself, illegally invading other countries, must hurt your head trying to look through the perspective of another country besides the US.
O_o o_O
We are already in one, just people are afraid to admit it, because it might hurt Democrats. In some ways we have been in one since 1979, when Iran declared us an enemy and the "Great Satan." In some ways this is WW0, since it's been going on since 620 AD or so.
They outright declared it in 2006 as well.
Planes and death trap buildings from those planes ramming into them were the sign of a declaration if there ever was one.
You now see Russia, China, and their allies beginning to very slowly play their hand. The main body that supplied the hand being nations like Iran sending their minions inside Iraq to kill US soldiers which are standing their ground while succeeding at the same time.
Who knows though? Maybe one day the parts of the world that hate the United States and disagree with the US defending itself will see they're just human too and won't achieve perfection either in their actions.
Funny way to defend youself, illegally invading other countries, must hurt your head trying to look through the perspective of another country besides the US.
If I remember right, Howard from Australia was behind the USA , along with Congress, Bill Clinton, Tony Blair, and the UN with 16 santions, all off the top of my head. Of course the historicaly challenged will deny everything.
The real power in Australia is the Governor-General, and there is no Bill of Rights in Australia as is understood in the United States.
You mean invading other countries with goverments that slaughter their own civilians? Nah would probably hurt an outlander's head too much to see that perspective.
You can think what you want but I happen to like other parts of the world. Even though I've never been able to visit them. Though if an outsider to the US wants to act confrontational I won't hesitate to stand my ground.
AC2 Player RIP Final Death Jan 31st 2017
Refugee of Auberean
Refugee of Dereth
We are already in one, just people are afraid to admit it, because it might hurt Democrats. In some ways we have been in one since 1979, when Iran declared us an enemy and the "Great Satan." In some ways this is WW0, since it's been going on since 620 AD or so.
They outright declared it in 2006 as well.
Planes and death trap buildings from those planes ramming into them were the sign of a declaration if there ever was one.
You now see Russia, China, and their allies beginning to very slowly play their hand. The main body that supplied the hand being nations like Iran sending their minions inside Iraq to kill US soldiers which are standing their ground while succeeding at the same time.
Who knows though? Maybe one day the parts of the world that hate the United States and disagree with the US defending itself will see they're just human too and won't achieve perfection either in their actions.
Funny way to defend youself, illegally invading other countries, must hurt your head trying to look through the perspective of another country besides the US.
First, he was already in violation of the terms of surrender, so it was far from illegal. Second, he was in violation of many UN resolutions, so it was far from illegal. Second, when a man is raping a woman, is it illegal to take him down? Of course not. If a man is raping a nation, is it illegal to take HIM down? Of course not. Dictators have no right to sovereignty and responsible parties have every legal right to bring the down, ESPECIALLY when the first two things I mentioned are occurring as well.
The only question in such situations is: is it PRUDENT? one can argue that nations have better use for their blood and treasure than invading and overthrowing dictators, One can argue that it makes more enemies than friends. One can argue that those people aren't WORTH it (which is what most people REALLY mean).
I disagree, in this case, but at least those are reasonable arguments.
Illegal? hardly. I am looking at this through the perspective as a citizen of a world. A world that ought to be free. I don't understand how anyone who lives and was raised in freedom anywhere can't feel the same way, in his heart.
fishermage.blogspot.com
We are already in one, just people are afraid to admit it, because it might hurt Democrats. In some ways we have been in one since 1979, when Iran declared us an enemy and the "Great Satan." In some ways this is WW0, since it's been going on since 620 AD or so.
They outright declared it in 2006 as well.
Planes and death trap buildings from those planes ramming into them were the sign of a declaration if there ever was one.
You now see Russia, China, and their allies beginning to very slowly play their hand. The main body that supplied the hand being nations like Iran sending their minions inside Iraq to kill US soldiers which are standing their ground while succeeding at the same time.
Who knows though? Maybe one day the parts of the world that hate the United States and disagree with the US defending itself will see they're just human too and won't achieve perfection either in their actions.
Funny way to defend youself, illegally invading other countries, must hurt your head trying to look through the perspective of another country besides the US.
I see your perspective everytime the whacko's go into the streets and burn the cities down. That kind of good living we are trying to avoid in America.
None I repeat None of the rest of the World would be prospering if it wasn't for America and its peoples struggle to lift the world up. You have a voice in the World because America has provided a way for you to have a voice.
We have come to the aid of your lands how many times?
You are doing the same thing with Iran, that you did with Iraq. Nothing, but talk. What do you think we are going to do, set here and wait for the threat to come to fruition while a bunch of lily-liver tea tottlers set warming benches.
Maybe we should come home. We can do like the rest of your friends. We can raise our nukes and tell you haters we are going to wipe you off the planet. Would that be to more of your liking if we play by the rules of your friends that threaten U.S.?
Akmadinajad is next. You can save him. You can take all that peace you have wrapped up in you and get after it. Go talk to that friggen moron. You are just as big a satan to him as he thinks we are. You are just a pawn to him, a smaller fish not ready to catch.
Illegal. pfft America does not require permission to defend itself from its enemies or its sympathizers.
We gave Sadaam 10 years to come clean and we knew we were going after Al Queda and we knew Sadaam was the biggest potential threat in the region with probable wmd's. So did your Nation and the other Nations and Sadaam boasted of it and up to the last minute was offered a way out.
The difference between America and the World is the World would have America's army be in jeopardy to the possibility of Sadaam supplying Al Queda with wmd's and America was not willing. We protected our troops by eliminating the threat. You are no friend to America and we could give diarhea for what you think about it.
Watch what you say, you may need a friend one day.
No, nothing super about our heroic nature. Just simple humans acting in freedom. Anyone can do it, if they are free -- and to the extent that they are -- they do. Maybe if more people on earth gave a sh*t about the Constitution, maybe their wouldn't be so much tyranny and human slavery in the world.
Our own failures have been a direct result of our own government ignoring that document.
As to best workforce...even an American hating organization like the United Nations admits we have the highest productivity of any nation on earth.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/03/business/main3228735.shtml
ROFLAMO.
The United Nations is an American institution you divot.
And no offense but Indians and Chinese work harder than you lot for less. That's why you are losing all your jobs to them. (Try not to post links if you haven't actually read them).
The American constittuion allows slavery. The Magna Carta is the document that ended it worldwide, including in your country. You didn't stop out of choice, we made you.
Your own failures have been a result of your humanity. Everyone has failures. Every person. Every people. It has sod all to do with your precious constitution. That's just a piece of paper.
Like Jackolt says, America is great and all........
But if you were thinking you got where you are in the last 70 years be rights of being smarter and more hard working you are off your rocker son.
You got where you are because everyone else blew eachother up and you were out of range. The only industrialised country to come out of 2 world wars unscathed while the rest of world's industry lay crippled.
You have done well, you have made your hay. That was your time in history. Try not to mistake it for something it isn't.
You mean invading other countries with goverments that slaughter their own civilians? Nah would probably hurt an outlander's head too much to see that perspective.
Why don't you kill your own government then, your government has slaughtered it's own civilians three times in history so far.
No offense but this is quite probably the lamest propaganda out there.
In a civil war, in a revolutiion, the people you are killing aren't "your own civilians". It doesn't take an "outlander" to work that out.
I find it amusingly ironic that the only reason Saddam was ever in power was because the good ole US of A put him there, OH SHIT WE FORGOT ABOUT THAT DIDN'T WE.
I find it amusingly ironic that Saddam could've been stopped in the first gulf war when the US, yes thats right the US PROMISED the Kurdish rebels that they would help them, nope they pulled out and left them like sitting ducks and further more prevented them from marching onto the capital. What resulted was 10s of thousands of Kurds being gased by Saddam, oh shit we forgot that didn't we.
I find it amusingly ironic that most civilians in Iraq are under more hardship than they ever were under Saddam and that more have died than Saddam could have ever achieved in his lifetime.
I like patriotism I really do, but all of yours is hollow. Makes me sick. You may have fought a noble cause in WW2 but what a fall from grace.
O_o o_O
No, nothing super about our heroic nature. Just simple humans acting in freedom. Anyone can do it, if they are free -- and to the extent that they are -- they do. Maybe if more people on earth gave a sh*t about the Constitution, maybe their wouldn't be so much tyranny and human slavery in the world.
Our own failures have been a direct result of our own government ignoring that document.
As to best workforce...even an American hating organization like the United Nations admits we have the highest productivity of any nation on earth.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/03/business/main3228735.shtml
ROFLAMO.
The United Nations is an American institution you divot.
And no offense but Indians and Chinese work harder than you lot for less. That's why you are losing all your jobs to them. (Try not to post links if you haven't actually read them).
The American constittuion allows slavery. The Magna Carta is the document that ended it worldwide, including in your country. You didn't stop out of choice, we made you.
Your own failures have been a result of your humanity. Everyone has failures. Every person. Every people. It has sod all to do with your precious constitution. That's just a piece of paper.
Like Jackolt says, America is great and all........
But if you were thinking you got where you are in the last 70 years be rights of being smarter and more hard working you are off your rocker son.
You got where you are because everyone else blew eachother up and you were out of range. The only industrialised country to come out of 2 world wars unscathed while the rest of world's industry lay crippled.
You have done well, you have made your hay. That was your time in history. Try not to mistake it for something it isn't.
The United Nations was started and is largely funded by America, but it is as America-hating as many other institutions in a free society.Freedom permits hatred -- like yours.
The Chinese have a lower producutvity rating than America; period -- at least by how we measure such things in economics. That is the only way to measure who word "harder" without falling into the subjectivity that you are.
The magna carta hasn't ended slavery worldwide -- slavery still exists in most of the world. IUt and all documents of free peoples everywhere stand testament against it; but none of them have "ended slavery,: sadly.
The magna carta permitted slavery until William Wilberforce and other British Christians led an abolotion movement in England. Similarly, the American Constitution permitted slavery until other Christians led the abolition movement here, The people ended it, because they came to recognise that black people were people and therefore COVERED under the Constitution.
We got where we were, as everyone everywhere has gotten where they are, because of freedom.
It is interesting you say "America is great and all..." then spit hate at her, when I haven't done that in the least to YOUR country, whichever country that is. That at least shows THIS American has more grace than you. I attribute THAT to MY free society, with all its warts and flaws, At least it taught me how to respect others.
Pity yours did not, or at least you did not learn that lesson.
fishermage.blogspot.com
You mean invading other countries with goverments that slaughter their own civilians? Nah would probably hurt an outlander's head too much to see that perspective.
Why don't you kill your own government then, your government has slaughtered it's own civilians three times in history so far.
No offense but this is quite probably the lamest propaganda out there.
In a civil war, in a revolutiion, the people you are killing aren't "your own civilians". It doesn't take an "outlander" to work that out.
So Sadam Hussein was a legitimate leader because others have done wrong? And all those people he murdered and gassed were merely the victims of a Civila War? Okay, now I undertstand your opinion better.
fishermage.blogspot.com
So when we try and recitfy failed policies of the past, it's wrong?
fishermage.blogspot.com
One problem is our naive belief, in the United States, that the military is the end-all, be-all and do-all institution of the USA.
This is sense of superman military has created tremendous costs for the American people and has lead to a lot of working-class and lower-middle class kids getting killed here, there, and all over the world.
We do have the best military, but we have to stop seeing the military as a solution to everything; it is, if it not apparent now it never will be, capable of everything.
BigDavo.
You find it,
amusingly ironic that the only reason Saddam was ever in power was because the good ole US of A put him there, OH SHIT WE FORGOT ABOUT THAT DIDN'T WE.
Now,
I suppose you think it would have been better for that region to allow Iran to roll over Iraq. The evidence shows we supplied mediocre equipment to hold off a bad guy that happened to be attempting an over throw of Iraq. The World did not need an Iran twice its size setting on Kuwaits and Saudi Arabia's borders.
So what if we influenced the out come. We had no reason to believe that an Individual, Sadaam back in 1980 who was Defending his country would rise up against Kuwait. But we Did know that if Iran won that conflict the bigger threat would become a much more unmanageable threat.
So what was America responsible for? Putting an end to a 12 year conflict without having to militarily supply the man power to do it.
What did we leave behind after providing Iraq the equipment for it, as you want to call it an "Army"? An Iraq. as free as it was before Iran stuck its nose out. The army of Sadaam you claim America built was no Army. When we sent an Army into Iraq that equipment was put down in one sweep and the people were rounded up.
America did not cause Sadaam to take the defense that was provided to maintain its borders so Sadaam could invade Kuwait. America begged him not to invade Kuwait. America stood up for Iraq when attacked by Iran. America stood up for Kuwait. when attacked by Iraq.
You say,
I find it amusingly ironic that Saddam could've been stopped in the first gulf war when the US, yes thats right the US PROMISED the Kurdish rebels that they would help them, nope they pulled out and left them like sitting ducks and further more prevented them from marching onto the capital. What resulted was 10s of thousands of Kurds being gased by Saddam, oh shit we forgot that didn't we.
Well,
I am not familiar with any Treaties we had with Iraqi kurds, I don't know what was promised them. I also don't know if that any promises of help that were made were not kept but rather provided in ways you and I are not privy to. I do know, but as recently as 2 years ago the Iraqi Kurds asked for U.S. help help against Turkey forces. For them to ask for help of Americans is testament in itself where they turn in times of trouble. If Turkey were to gas the Iraqi Kurds, (not saying they would) but if they did, I guess by your standards it would be America's fault.
America did not provide Sadaam with the gas to gas the Kurds. Americas mission in supplying Sadaam was to hold off Iran. America was not there to involve itself in domestic Iraqi issues between one tribe or another. America was there to keep the region manageable for the defense of the world and to contain a regime that threatens it.
What Sadaam did after America's intervention was not in America's crystal ball. Why didn't you and the rest of the World reveal that it was in yours.
You say,
I find it amusingly ironic that most civilians in Iraq are under more hardship than they ever were under Saddam and that more have died than Saddam could have ever achieved in his lifetime.
Well
that may or may not be true. That depends on what town in Iraq you make that assumption that they are better off. After we get through uncovering the mass grave sites we can determine whether Sadaams continued political and religious cleansing would have been better for Iraq than it will be to live free and Govern their own lives.. Ultimately it will be up to the people of Iraq. When we leave there the Iraqis will be self determinant. They will have the choice to take their country any direction they want. Where they take and the out come of where they take their Nation will be their business until their business encroaches on the business of the World.
You say,
I like patriotism I really do, but all of yours is hollow. Makes me sick. You may have fought a noble cause in WW2 but what a fall from grace.
Well,
I appreciate your patriotism. I do find your box hollow however. You may do well thinking outside of it once in a while. It makes me sick that there are bench warmers that always have the better way after the fact. There will always be a better way to have done things.
Mistakes will always rise up when addressing a problem. WW2 did not end the Worlds problems. We are still in that Noble struggle and if you stepped out of the hollow box you are in you might see it. While we do the right thing keeping the hitlers at bay, you should be waxing your crystal ball so we can tell the out come of our actions in order to prevent any future mishaps.
Have a Good Day
I don't live in a free society that permits hatred. I live in one where hatred is a crime.
I am explaining history to you. Not spitting and not hating. I'm pretty sure that I havent discussed any personal hatred of America in this thread, or any other. The GRACE you are exhibiting seems more like paranoia from my angle.
The Magna Carta fromalised in Law the abolishment of lsavery in England in 1215. There had however been no slavery here for the 800 years preceding that. It did not end slavery as much as recognise the already common law human rights of the country inthe form of a written constitution that could be refered to in a court of law..
There has been no slavery here since the Romans left around 400 AD, the Magna Carta did not permit it. You have been misinformed.
How you measure productivity is a method which places you at the top of the ladder. There are as many other methods as there are people. How other people measure productivity is likely to be rather different. We can all find statistics that place us at the top of the pile.
Slavery doesn't still exist in most of the world. What nonsense. There are very few places indeed where slavery exists, and those places tend to have British warships patrolling their coasts, just as your country used to when it still did.
You like to think you came around to banning slavery on your own accord, but that's not the case. We wouldn't trade with you and we sunk your slave ships. We embargoed and blockaded your ports until you gave it up.
Thats why the north banned it first. Because they were the ones that were making all the money on international trade.
You talk about respecting other people and yet you clearly don't.
You attribute their contributions to humanity as your own and you make wild claims about how superior your workforce and country is due to it's "freedom" and superior political idealogy. Perhaps you are suggesting that other peoples idea's of a free society are not as good as yours? Is this respect? No. It is the opposite. It is arrogance. Self belief above all else. Above all others. Xenophobia.
Whether you like it or not your constitution recognised that people were people and slaves were slaves. (And that native indians weren't people at all). You might like to claim the end to slavery as a great act of humanity your society brought to the world, but the historical truth of the matter is, you didn't. You were unwilling and had to be forced to participate in it's demise. Your people came to see it as the way forward because all the decision makers had their incomes severed by an external military force until they agreed.
This is your history. You can look at it through rosey eyed spectacles if you like. Wherever possible I like to do the same about my own.
Get your facts straight,
From the outset, slavery was a vital economic component of the British Empire in the Americas. Until the abolition of the slave trade in 1807, Britain was responsible for the transportation of 3.5 million African slaves to the Americas, a third of all slaves transported across the Atlantic.[19] To facilitate this trade, forts were established on the coast of West Africa, such as James Island, Accra and Bunce Island. In the British Caribbean, the percentage of the population comprising blacks rose from 25% in 1650 to around 80% in 1780.
British started it and brought it to America. It took Americans approximately 60 years to put that behind U.S.
Just because you make false accusations does not make them true.
YA ya I know, because America had 60 years of slavery under their watch is why Americans are responsible for all the slavery the last 6000 years. Damn U.S Americans.