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Some Questions About the Whole Situation With BoB
altfreak2
Member Posts: 20
Before I ask this question, I need to point out that the most experience that I have with Eve is a few trials and searching around the forums, so please be gentle to a noob?
I've heard a lot of stuff about BoB, about how they're such a pain in the ass to so many alliances. But then I take a look at how many members they have, as I figured that they would have to be pretty big to be such a nuisance... less than 3000 members. Come on, I think Goonswarm just by itself has about 4000 to 5000 members, and that's just one of the alliances fighting against BoB! I know the whole deal about how so much of Goonswarm is made up of noobs and all, but there are so many thousands of players in all these other alliances, so this leads to my questions:
Why can't all the alliances just team up ALL AT ONCE (I'm talking about beginning a coordinated attack over a matter of a few days) and literally beat the living shit out of BoB once and for all? I believe that not only would it get of a big pest, but it would also create some interesting results with the ensuring power balances to be made not only around where BoB's territory is, but pretty much all over the Eve Universe.
Would the power struggles that would ensure for BoB's territory begin more large-scale wars between major alliances all over the galaxy? What would happen to BoB itself... would it break up and divide itself into new alliances, or be absorbed by the major alliances already around, or maybe would it even massively-relocate itself to somewhere else in 0.0, or start plaguing Empire space?
In all, I think that this entire idea would actually catch the attention of many people outside of Eve Online, and of course the people in Eve already would be affected a lot by the consequences.
Comments
Think of EVE as the current political situation on earth. You really think you are going to get everyone to gang up on one? OK look ...imagine you go visit the UN to get an agreement on something...
EVE is a rediculously complicated mesh of political and domestic intrigue in and of itself...a sort of mini model of reality.
Mere numbers mean nothing. When I was in FLA, we defeated a coalition of alliances five times our size (and over three times our experience in PVP) by having more temerity and better diplomacy.
All other alliances would never gang up on BoB simultaneously because:
1) Simply getting the logistics of such a major undertaking to cooperate would be a long project even within the alliances. It would give weeks of time for the coalition to break apart.
2) The alliances of which such a mega-coalition would have to be made of are seldom completely friendly with everyone else, and some are deep-set rivals.
3) BoB isn't unilaterally reviled by all other players in the game, even though Goonie and other propaganda often tries to portray it. BoB have their allies, and many alliances are 'neutral' towards them, and will not engage them in open combat for various reasons.
4) To engage BoB, the Alliances Coalition would need a leader who could unite the entire anti-BoB front into a single political entity, capable of speaking with one voice and following one persons direction. A Warlord, so to speak.
Those are just few of the reasons why such a mega-alliance combination is very, very unlikely to ever happen. There have been times when BoB have been under attack from several large power blocs at the same time (RaGoon and the Northern NAP, for instance) but they've always managed to survive, albeit with losses.
I like that thinking, but when you say it in that way, I have one word for a reply: Iraq.
Everybody seemed to be united to invade Iraq in the UN at the time (at least it seemed to me). And also, I've never really seen Eve as the sort of place where alliances would have to go through a lot of red tape and regulations in order to cooperate, they just... cooperate i guess.
But then again, I may not have enough understanding of the situation in Eve to be right, it's just my opinion.
When I was writing about the strategy i was suggesting, I had in my mind the mass-destruction strategy that BoB recently introduced (btw, how did that turn out?). Just basically cram as many anti-BoB pilots into BoB space, and rip everything apart
, no leadership required except the need to destroy, or perhaps the players may organise themselves as the operation proceeds, sort of like how factional warfare is working atm. Now I'm not saying that this is a fail-proof plan, but it's just an entertaining idea.
I used to fight along-side BoB. They have big faults, so it could be much worse!
There is no 'BoB situation'.
That is what pretty much sums up answer to all your questions regarding BoB topic.
a non political, game mechanics answers?
npc stations in null sec where bob can hide?
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
server load can't handle the number of people for that.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Devs have been caught helping BOB lied about then said its there game they will do what they want. Now lets say What would a reasonable person think about that statement. There in you have your answer, as long as they get a monthly $15 bucks and maintain current numbers things will stay the same. There has been some minor nerfs added. The game starts to lose to many folks it will be NGE'ed faster then you can say NGE. Bottom line is Profit never for get this.
MAGA
I don't think BOB is as much a factor in eve as they used to be. If you ask me, my personal opinion is that Goonswarm is the alliance to ask about, if you are wondering which alliance has the most power currently Goonswarm (OHGOD) would be it.
bob would do much better if they didn't fear dethklok so much.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
bob would do much better if they didn't fear dethklok so much.
Metalacolypse! FTW!
Goonswarm are a non-entity right now. You should read the SA forums to see what's going on in EVE, which is nothing. There have been several threads on SA complaining that their numbers aren't logging in anymore and that the alliance is basically dead. They haven't engaged anyone for months simply because they can't get the fleets anymore, if they're lucky they'll be able to muster 200 people. That, in itself, is a lot of people in one fleet but if you then have to go up against 20+ Titans, 400+ capital ships, thousands of battleships and support you're going to get nowhere. AAA could walse all over GS if they wanted to but they don't for obvious reasons, one being the maintenance of the HUGE amount of space GS control.
BoB are not a small entity. They have 3000 people in the alliance but the GBC (Greater BoB Coalition) is larger than GS. There are always people online and there is always a gang somewhere. Also BoB have managed to recruit the best Fleet Commanders, most Titan pilots and have the largest cap fleet in EVE (just repeating myself). So to get a force together that can rival that of BoB is a huge undertaking. This was tried and BoB were pushed back all the way to a few systems but they held them and they sacrificed cap ships like there was no tomorrow and lost quite a few Titans but in the end the anti-BoB force retreated because they got bored. EVE is a game and it should be treated as such, you can't siege systems for months on end and expect people to keep logging in. This isn't real life war and when people get bored they go do other things.
The Northern Coalition is dead. Iron got dispatched to empire within a week, it took BoB two weeks to demolish RA (the alliance that once saw itself as the only rival to BoB), Pure are no more and now it's MM's turn. The major power BoB have is not dev support (that was dealt with) but the fact that their 'enemies' have all turned out to be farmers and carebears. RZR have turned out to have serious problems within the alliance and nobody came to IRON or Pure's rescue. The claim was that they were too busy fighting TRI who, with an inferiour fleet, removed Hydra and are back in 0.0.
It takes effort, energy, sweat, tears and courage to fight. If you're not brave enough to risk your ships, money and time to a fight you have already lost and you can go mine veldspar and do silly lvl 4 missions in empire. This counts for MM, RZR, Pure, BRUCE, Goons, RA and BoB. This happened to TRI when MM, RZR and others crushed TRI with massive fleets and TRI retreated to empire. It is the natural way of things in EVE. Alliances come and go, if that didn't happen all the drama, weeping, whining, crying, swearing, hatred and plains stupidity that is EVE would never happen and EVE wouldn't be what it is.
Take my post however way you want to. I am, currently, in the GBC (all you have to do is log on and check Liranan's corp). However this is not meant as propaganda and it's meant to be the truth from my own perspective. I have fought in GBC fleets, sieged many a POS, station and gate and I am just reporting what I have seen with my own eyes.
P.S. To the one who thinks that the entirety of the UN was behind the invasion of Iraq: the invasion was illigal for a reason, look it up. Other than this leave politics out of the thread as there is more than enough politics in EVE for us to drown in, EVE is a great game
BOB has focus, strength, SP, logistics, wealth, teamwork and they win a whole lot. Which attracts more PVPers. So the more they fight, the stronger they become. They're creative with the rules and they KNOW their stuff. I'm not a fan of them at all but credit where it's due. So pure on numbers you can't compare (like you never really can in EVE).
The thing about the anti-BOB is that they all have their own different goals and hidden agendas, they're not unified by thought and teamwork but rather because of a common enemy. As such they can not keep focus and/or trust eachother enough to really go the distance.
Personally I'm not interested in either side since I don't want to be used or controlled by either and we try to do our own thing. Problem is ofcourse that it's almost impossible to NOT have Goon/BOB alts/influences when you start to become more than just an unknown.
The real reason why they don't all gang up and go for it is trust, or lack thereoff. Actually that's what EVE has always been about, trust and being trustworthy is the most valuable commodity in EVE and there's so little of it.
I was just saying that when Iraq was invaded, I didnt see that much opposition from people in the UN, I only saw opposition from the general population. I am strongly against the war myself, and bringing together real-life politics with Eve was never my intention, and you're right... Eve is a great game
, but other than that, dont try to put words in my mouth...
There are many alliances in the GBC for the simple reason to make money. Without money no ships are made and sold, which means if you have to fight and die for something you should, at least, get something out of it. So many of the alliances in the GBC all farm, then jump when BoB say move and follow BoBs lead. I see no problem with this. Make money but obey your 'master'. Now, you can call those who obey pets or slaves and those who command as masters but in the end they both need eachother. The smaller entity needs the larger one to become wealthy and the larger one needs the smaller one, because without the larger is actually not big and powerful at all.
If we look at the last EVE vs. BoB war BoB made many mistakes. Some of them were attacking residents/allies/pets (call them whatever you want) and removing them from their space. When BoB got attacked and pushed all the way to Delve and NOL became the Stalingrad of EVE or the Alamo (as the station in NOL is called) BoB had very few friends to help them. Now BoB have learned and there are LOADS of smaller alliances living in BoB space. They do what they want, go where they want, mine and rat where they want and BoB just asks for a small percentage of the refined/mined modules in payment for the maintenance of the POSes (imagine the people who maintain all those stupid POSes in BoB space and then look at Goon space... i'd rather kill myself than fly around for days in haulers fueling those things).
Trust is a very important thing but with alliances having serious internal problems (RZR and the way CEI are rumoured to use alliance funds to finance personal super cap ships) and or simply not caring about their allies (LOL SmashKill) it's not a surprise they're all going down one at a time. Once upon a time all these alliances fought alongside eachother but now they've desintegrated into a mess of internal strife, drama and a lot of forum warrioring and damage control. I have respect for Razor, I have respect for Morsus Mihi (nearly joined them), I have respect for AAA (the TCF Titan kill film is fantastic, the music is perfect for it) and I respect BoB, as well as all the other alliances I have mentioned (other than Pure but they shouldn't even be camping a starter system let alone be permitted to hold space of their own).
EVE can be described with a quote from Dune "Plan within plan". Nothing is what it seems and the forums are full of lies, deception, propaganda and all the things that make EVE great.
Yes but lets bring it all down to this; There's 3 sorts of players in the game;
1) the clueless
2) the people who want to hoard money/assets
3) the people who want to feck others up and have a laugh
You seem to think that the BOB core/command consists of #2 players, you're wrong. Granted; they will have many PLAYERS that are #2 and perhaps even friends/pets/whatever but the core consists of #3 players. This is why PVP alliances can't be beaten, especially ones who know what they're doing.
Again, no fan of BOB (or againts them actually) but as long as they're able to keep the main/core people #3 players they'll do well. Look at Tri, it started out as #3 and then gradually switched to #2 while allowing #1 players in. They folded, reorganised and now are (mostly) back to being #3.
The main goal/problem a 0.0 alliance CEO has is to make SURE that most (if not all) of your people are #3, if you don't pay attention, if you don't sort out and kick the useless you'll degrade to crap and become weak. Sounds harsh but actually it isn't, it's about taking care of your core players.
I can tell you're in the GBC because you really know what the people in the GBC do. I have several characters. One is on the front lines at all times and the others are making money. The GBC concists of both number two and three. The only people who don't fall into the number two category are ANZAC as they live in empire and don't mine or rat in 0 but do fight alongside BoB.
In the end what I said is true. If you get nothing for fighting and dieing you won't fight. So, the GBC rat, mine, do whatever they want, in BoB space but also fight when BoB says fight. If that werent the case then there wouldn't be 1000 man fleets. I will repeat myself again. Without farming no ships are bought, no ships mean no fleets, no fleets mean no fights, no fights mean no crashed nodes
.
You have obviously not been in 0 long or ever at all. Right now Razor, Morsus Mihi and their friends are all crashing nodes all over Tribute. They are all fighting together in the hope to stop BoB from removing MM from their space which will mean the end of the NC and their Northern domination. Goons are a shell and they can't recruit because of their behaviour as scammers, useless thugs and the plague of EVE. AAA don't care as they're busy conquering their part of EVE. Solar Wing/Fleet and XDeath are taking all the moons in the drone regions and selling the ISK online (rumours abound about that). TCF are getting pwned by AAA. CVA do what CVA do, which is spam the forums demanding Providence be added to the Great Amarr Empire or other things nobody cares about, they are also losing battles to AAA. IAC got crushed by AAA while being allies for a while. RA got pwned by the GBC and lost lots of members. IRC, the Gateway to 0 are being eaten alive by Solar/XDeath . Did I mention Goons aren't logging in anymore? And Mostly Harmless are next.
BoB might be hoping this will lead to another EVE vs. BoB war but I have no idea and I don't really care. As long as we are all having fun, whether it be the GBC, the NC, the Goons, Solar/Xdeath, Pure or the Jita traders everything is good and we can all continue shooting eachother.
I'm not a member of the GBC nor any other bigger entity. Been there, done that, got the Tshirt. Tired of being used/lied to/have spies on my TS and downing my POSes. I haven't set foot in 0.0 politics for a long time. And I'm quite happy with that decision.
On your other point; There's a difference between gaining cash/assets to use them for war purposes and have everyone contribute for the greater good (whichever that may be), and (mis)using your corp/alliance to gain personal wealth and buggering off when the shit hits the fan.
The best way to keep a coherent core group of PVPers is to have a democratic dictatorship following the communistic ideas. Active and vocal members that agree to be lead by a knowledgable leader, where everyone works towards the greater mutual goal, and have fun doing so. BOB captures that well and so do some others although not on that scale ofcourse.