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Is the Magus class as bad as people think?
joswij
Member Posts: 82
I don't think so. Frankly I think people try to play a Magus like a Sorc/BW and expect similar results. They play very differently. Sorc/BW do well when you sit on the backlines and load up DoTs and nuke targets down. Magi on the other do well in the thick of things, loading AE dots on the clusters most melee groups cause. Even when defending their healers, a Magus can move in quickly and unload some respectable instant AE which of course scales well and makes the healers job more than spamming on single target.
I have some anecdotal screenshots of rounds that show when a Magus is played in it's role, how well it can exceed.
img510.imageshack.us/img510/1010/duimagim000xu3.jpg (Level 5 top damage)
img517.imageshack.us/img517/2088/duimagim001rl5.jpg (Level 11 top damage)
I thought the level 5 round put things into perspective. Although there were not a great deal of 9+ characters in the second screenshot, I thought the difference between the #1 & #2 spot was significant enough. I found that the Magus playstyle fit my more aggresive "round-'em-up" tatics makes the class shine. There is a decent amount of pro-active control with the early roots and massive snare abilities. I've stated before, but the Magus class makes an Excellent peel class.
Comments
I like to drop my demon in the middle of the fray, set him on aggressive, then go hide and ambush them while they try to kill my decoy.
I'm enjoying my magus quite a bit. I'm only up to level 9, but I still feel I do well in pve, rvr. As you level, you also will get better equipment which boosts your Int and that'll add to your dps. So if someone thinks the magus is underpowered, they're probably just lower level. In fact it seems that every class starts off kind've slow, but after say 6-7th level, things start picking up. By level 8-9, you start to feel a bit more powerful. Once you hit 11, and start getting mastery points, you'll be able to add to that power. Not to mention RvR xp gives you rank you can also train into points to add to your Int. +3 to start, then +6 and so on. It's not like other games where you pwn right off the bat. You have to work on your character and build up that power. This game is definately not a spoon fed system.
Ive had some luck with them. The only problem Ive had is they seem to get targetted a lot. Its like floating on a giant bullseye. To top it off, we have short range.
but like someone else pointed out your best tactic is to park your turret and set it to aggro.
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
when you put your pet in world geometry, or a bugged place so that it can shoot through walls/ceilings/hills - then a magus can do fine
I'm not saying you specifically did that, but playing as an engineer it is the best way I found to actually be somewhat mildly useful.
Magus/Engineer is not a bad class. They are Support units and are very usefull in defending positions. They arent meant for massive dps, in that case you want a Bright Wizard or a Sorcerer. Every class in Warhammer was made specifically to be strategically usefull in PVP and in groups....if you think your class sucks then you are either a) playing them wrong, or b) its not the class for you.
Indeed, many people don't play the magus class in the way its designed and believe they're broken. 1vs1, magi (plural of magus?) don't do very well as their DPS on single targets are very weak, and usually lose against any other class 1vs1. Although I do believe that the magus, along with the engie, could definately use some burst damage enhancements so they can defend themselves a bit better when their cornered in open rvr areas. As a magus, or engie, its best to roll with a group and blast away at any zergs comming your way. Sure, you might not blow away the witchhunter running towards you, but you will definately put a dent in the zerg, making their healers life a nightmare.
I've been playing a magus on my server, and I've discovered it's a bit tougher than other types of characters I've played (in both this game and others...granted, we're not talking years of playing here in this game as I think it's been out, oh, 3 days?). But as you start to figure out what makes this class tick, it becomes really satisfying. I'm pretty low level right now mainly because I tried a couple of other classes first, and I always tend to go for classes that are a lot more difficult to manage (which is why I generally always play a healer in most MMOs; I didn't like a healer in this game so far because unlike WoW, I seem to be flagging myself for rvr constantly without realizing it...I'm sure after some time it will start to make a lot more sense).
But back to the magus. This is a pretty fun class that can do some serious damage. I've been doing a lot of the public quests, and aside from the one where the dragon breathes fire on you, I've contributed some serious damage in these things. In that one, I have done well, too, but I learned the innate ability to run and have the dragon chase me, kind of kiting him by kiting myself and letting my little blue sprite nuke him nonstop until he gets angry at my little guy, I fire up a red sprite and then start pummeling him with bolts again. It works. Kind of clunky, but that's how you learn, I guess.
So yeah, liking the class. Starting to have a bit more survivability now. Was getting slaughtered almost every fight when I first started. Others do okay in the class around me, but they generally don't go suicidal like I do whenever I play a class like this.
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http://www.littlesarbonn.com
yah i get the same thing as a Zeilot, There quite good in the dmg dealing department. not just for heals.
id have to say its a mix of Warlock/Priest.
with a mix of tatics i can adjust my fighting skill to the battle situation. Finaly a PvP game with some depth
Actually I've found that 1v1 they are still a very capable force. The issue I've actually seen similiarities in other pet classes IE White Lion in how to approach a higher damage class. The main point of a 1v1 fight is making sure you have a pet that will be able to dump out some damage while you load up on the DoTs and kite them out prior to the nuking. I've found that the Magus nuke is fairly weak. Considering it doesn't scale anywhere near as well as a Sorc/BW nuke. The benefit is a relatively short cast time, giving more relevance to being able to DoT-Kite-Nuke-Kite etc.
In any case on high damage targets I try to position a pet(If I'm unable to I usually DoT kite until I feel the fight is in my favor), then DoT-Kite to gauge if they are a chaser or looking for the "easy squishy" kill. If they are looking for the easy kill by the time they hit 75% usually they'll turn around looking for someone else. If' it's a chaser I'll load up the DoTs and let the pet tick away on them. Allowing them to get in close, and using Daemonic Maw to snare them. If I'm snared in response I can root them and keep trucking. Besides a full healer, killing other DPS or forcing them off the Magus is a great strength of the class.
Usually the best damage comes from kiting multiple classes around you (aka round-'em-up), loading DoTs, rooting, dropping an AE pet and throwing the cone DoT as I move out of the cluster. It is very easy to overload even good healers with a large amount of DoTs/Debuffs and snares on Order chasing your own healers.
Actually the Zealot is (from what I understand from beta players), the main healer of Destructions side. They do decent damage, but if you compare them to Shaman, they get far more offensive spells. The balance seems to be, if you want DPS and HoTs mainly go with shaman, if you want Big heals and some DPS, go with Zealots. Disciple of Khaine, from what my wife says, does decent melee damage and that is turned into heals, which are apparently medium in power. Not sure if this is entirely accurate, but since the game has some complex character developement, I think this is a good basis in deciding what healer type to pick.
Sorry I broke way off topic.
I think people get disappointed with the Magus because they see this character floating on a disc while casting spells and immediately think, "Cool nuker!" I know that's what went through my mind at first, and why I ultimately wound up disappointed with the class.
Eventually I realized that the Magus is the mirror for Order's Engineer, and went, "aha!" Once I understood the concept of the class for what it really is rather than what it appeared to be, I understood where it could be fun to play. There are other classes I enjoy more, but I ultimately had fun with the time I played an Engineer at the end of open beta.
It's just a matter of getting the right perspective.
The problem with Magus/Engineer is this: you could do 100 damage to 100,000 different characters and blow away the damage charts at the end of a scenario, but you'd not have killed or even noticeably impeded a single opponent. Ask any healer how they feel about Magus/Engineer and they will all state that the two classes are no threat to them nor do they pose a healing distraction or challenge.
But sure, if you want to argue that nobody can top these two at sitting on the sidelines doing negligible damage and not really affecting the outcome of a battle, then you are totally correct. It amuses me that after so many MMOs, people still can not or will not admit to themselves that their chosen class has issues.
Im betting that the magus becomes a very popular 2nd character roll. From what ive seen they do blow at lower levels, but usualy the case goes that characters that start off horrble end up pretty good. I guess we have to wait for those who did roll a magus to get up to endgame to really see. My bet is that the magus will be a late bloomer, as far as being powerful.
Actually the Zealot is (from what I understand from beta players), the main healer of Destructions side. They do decent damage, but if you compare them to Shaman, they get far more offensive spells. The balance seems to be, if you want DPS and HoTs mainly go with shaman, if you want Big heals and some DPS, go with Zealots. Disciple of Khaine, from what my wife says, does decent melee damage and that is turned into heals, which are apparently medium in power. Not sure if this is entirely accurate, but since the game has some complex character developement, I think this is a good basis in deciding what healer type to pick.
Sorry I broke way off topic.
Acutally, you haven't been healed till you've been healed by a Disciple of Khaine. I'm a Witch Elf and I have no better friend than these PBAoE heal-pulsing battle mages.
Disciples of Khaine.
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Actually the Zealot is (from what I understand from beta players), the main healer of Destructions side. They do decent damage, but if you compare them to Shaman, they get far more offensive spells. The balance seems to be, if you want DPS and HoTs mainly go with shaman, if you want Big heals and some DPS, go with Zealots. Disciple of Khaine, from what my wife says, does decent melee damage and that is turned into heals, which are apparently medium in power. Not sure if this is entirely accurate, but since the game has some complex character developement, I think this is a good basis in deciding what healer type to pick.
Sorry I broke way off topic.
Acutally, you haven't been healed till you've been healed by a Disciple of Khaine. I'm a Witch Elf and I have no better friend than these PBAoE heal-pulsing battle mages.
Disciples of Khaine.
I'll have to relay that to my wife. She's enjoying her class and she's only level 7, so she hasn't been able to feel the full effect of her abilities yet.
Still trying to get the feel for Zealots and Shaman. I want the dps of my shaman, but love the heals of my Zealot. Might just have to keep both. I normally dont play healer classes in any game, but this game is just so much fun with all the classes.
Just because you have "top damage" doesn't mean you have played your role properly. I have had top damage in probably 75% of all my scenario queues. It isn't hard to do under 20 with a magus ( after 20 it seems harder, maybe it's because of the level imbalance currently).
As it currently stands, I have 3500 health. My area dots consist of one that does 180 to all near 20 ft +spirit debuff, on that does around 400 to area, one CLOSE that does 200 to all. I have seen other magus who just sit there, dotting up target with area effects. THIS is just a nuisance to the order, because quite frankly one heal over time on a target will negate the whole effects of your dots.
The key to a magus is yes, to open up with your instant dots from a distance. They are a mid ranged UTILITY class. Which means, they are there to annoy, they are there to target the healers in the back, put some pressure on them, slam down a daemonic pet and knock down the healers. Area effect interrupts, push backs. The BEST thing a magus can do is keep the healers from healing. I have done this in routine groups, it works every time. We apply so much pressure on the healers that eventually, they won't be able to keep up... that's the key.
Level 20 and under the magus plays different. You can run around, throwing dots and think you are doing good. As you progress, it's much different. Your roles become more defined and it is very paramount in how you use them. You aren't same lame tard bright wizard who only does damage and that's it. You are PURE utility mid range damage and are very squishy at early levels ( am still squishy).
realmwar.warhammeronline.com/realmwar/CharacterInfo.war
Picture of my magus
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But yeah, right now, Magus is probably the hardest class to play. The turret pets are near useless in most situations and other classes can completely out-do you in AOE damage. An AOE spec bright wizard or sorc will destroy you in damage anyways, the key is utility, I cannot stress that enough. Play smart, don't play stupid and shoot for top scores by spamming dots. They do very little until much much much higher.
what server do you play on?
I know top damage doesn't mean you played a good round, but if you look at the round statistics you can see there really isn't any room to question how I played. The round scores on top of which show there was a clear beatdown on the opposite side. Granted it's only tier 1, the class has some great group potential.
With my WH i see a magus as a free kill. Yesterday I was in Troll country and i killed a lvl 31 magus with my 24 WH numerous times. I dunno, maybe the WH is the paper to rock, but they seem to go down ridicuously easy.
I've played a Magus and an Engineer. I have to say, at least at low levels they are pretty challenging in RvR. I do manage to wrack up some kills, but I'm literally getting four times and many per scenario on most of my other characters. I know that on my greenskins, when I see an engineer I think "lunch." Hoping the class takes off more at higher levels, but I am having fun regardless.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Yeah, they need to balance it some. Witch hunters pretty much 3 shot any magus, and I don't care if they are supposed to be paper, it's sad when you have "zero" chance. Not to mention, right now, our roots and snares are bugged ONLY to witch hunters. If we root you, you still are able to melee hit ( with specials and finishers) from up to 100ft. Basically, it's pointless to even try once a witch hunter is on us. The only logical way we can beat a witch hunter is if we open first and keep distance and completely prevent melee mode. Which, just isn't going to happen very often.
The main problem is our morale abilities rise very slow compared to other classes. The snare/root breakaway I drastically need, just isn't there half the time, because of the slow build ups. I can't imagine how long it would take to use morale 3 or 4.
Level 17 Magus right now on Eerie Downs and i must say its turning into quite the fun class.
I seem to be someone who can actually put people down through the mad healing of this game.
Definatley arent the best long ranged nukers though, especially in scenarios. I almost prefer being right at the front and have begun stacking wounds and toughness to help my survival a bit. I'll go in, really lay out some dots and pet (if theres tiem before the fray) targets will immediatley switch to you as people do seem to love focusing magus (even when they've got their current target below 50%...) a good root and run to teh back of the lines, reset pet and begin the long ranged goods.
For 1v1 fights its all about which dots to cast, which pets to cast, whether or not to try to kite or to stay toe-toe.
Couple examples are simple, always fight other ranged right in there face, they dont want this and generally freak out when you do it (they dont expect other casters to), also just disrupt their longest and therefore strongest casts with our quick cast disrupting spell.
Tank classes.... stay mid ranged, root as often as possible and keep every dot we got on em.... spam disrupt on War/priests 1 long heal cast for the best chance at them, tough class for us 1v1 though.
healers-- kind of seem to be the biggest pain 1v1, but disrupt and some of the new dots i've recently got i've seen much improvement on them.
Honestly i played 3 classes to about 4-7 and wasn't at all enthralled with the depth i have gotten from magus, also i see like no magus even in T2 and that's always a good thing!!!!
I'll stick with it even if it falls flat in T3 like one poster said, im interested to see where it gets in the end, the mastery final abils all seem to have great charm on paper too!
So yeah, if you rolled Magus to be a Wizard like class glass cannon it's probably not for you, but with the lack of magus and 10 Bright wizards in every scenario i can see most have already re-rolled anyway haha
G'luck fellow Magus, lets play well and show em all we're something to fear!
--edit-- oh, forgot to add one thing though Witch Hunter is our masters at least up to 17