also what has stock prices gotta do wit mmorpg itself. gameplay wise...
its business and if you want to discuss business go to another forum.
If the MMO company goes out of business then the game is over. You won't be playing ever.
it wont. Vanguard was in a worse situation ad its still going so no need to talk about stock prices.
its not that easy for an mmo to go down.
3 silver bullets to the brain, a golden stake through the heart, garlic infused .50 rounds to the lower body and a napalm bomb filled with holy water should do it...
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds -Solid non level based game -Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
No matter what ppl are arguing about. The stocs just took another dive today (-13%) and under 9 Nkr. the stocks are now getting close to 50% LOWER value than they were when the company went on the stockmarket.
Maybe the company will be able to turn it around. But I guess even the investrors can figure out that 49 half empty servers that cost loads of money to maintain + big releases from other MMOs will hit the revenues really hard.
No matter what FUncom is promising atm - AOC is no longer their priority. Cause it simply will not make them money - they will keep on loosing money.
Well guys lets put it this way when AO was released it was huge flop they game was basically broken, Funcom was way way more in debt and without money ... it went so far that they made game free until its fixed ( that was at release )
AO never really recovered from release fiasco and now 7 years later they still support that game, despite everything.
People are just naive if they think Funcom will flop because of AoC, or they dont plan to support it anymore etc...
If worse come to worse they can A:) Downsize the company a lot ( so far they are still hiring) , B:) Sell the AoC etc...
Funcom will still support the game they worked ON and maybe after 6 months to a year if they see they cant make AoC main stream MMO and will stay in same subs numbers as Lotro/EQ2/Linage II etc.. they can decide to provide only limited support to the game. ( as Sony did with vanguard )
The fact is the game was released unfinished ( well most does ) with huge lack of end game content and with borked features ( most MMO's did that way better then Funcom did ) .
There are stil a lot of players playing and enjoying it so its not as bad as some want you to think ... heh but its far from good either.
Making game so easy to level up then not providing good end game content is ...
p.s. Still playing Age of Conan and have fun, despite the flaws
This thread is just full of bad information 1. Funcom is not in good shape. They spent 50M to produce and launch AOC ( 22M they borrowed in February). They only made 20% of box sales, which is 8M dollars. The rest goes to retailers and distributers. So basically they paid 50M to generate 8M. 3. Funcom LOST 8M in the 2nd quarter, despite the sales they got from boxes. They also had about -15M in cashflow and currently only have enough cash for about 6 more months of operation. 4. Funcom currently has 32M cash assets, and is in debt about 30M. 23M of that is short term debt which has to be repayed in the next 2 years. Seeing how Funcom lost 8M in the second quarter, it makes it difficult to see where they are going to get that 23M from. 5. All the major stock indexs are down about 5% over the past 2 years. Funcom's stock is down 50% over the same period... and is down a whopping 80% since it's high in may. When stock markets have 'bad' days.. it's usually 2-3%.... Funcom has had about 10 days in the past month where it's stock has dropped more than 10% and it hasn't had two positive days in a row since June. 6. Even with 800k box sales and 400k subscribers in the 2nd quarter.. Funcom LOST 8M dollars. How much bigger will that loss be when they don't have 800k box sales.
Learn to read a quarterly report. Funcom has 36M in cash assets and 21M in short term debt. Even though they spent a considerable amount launching the game they still have more in cash assets and more total worth than the same time last year. Considerably more. They're making money not going broke. One day you people will realize AOC isn't Funcom's only source of revenue and they actually made money when AOC was all expense and no income.
Funcom has NEVER made money. They have had negative EPS every quarter since they have been a publicly traded company. In the second quarter they lost 7.1M, in 2Q07 they only lost 1.7M. You continue to confuse 'sales' with 'profits'. Yes.. funcom has plenty of income, but they are spending far more than they are bringing in.. that is what that Negative means in front of the 7.1 and 1.7 in the quarterly report. In fact, if you look at the financial report, almost every number has a big negative in front of it.
Yes, Funcom has more in cash assets than they ever did in their past (32M), but that is ENTIRELY borrowed money. If I have 0 money, and I borrow 23M dollars, suddenly.. guess what.. I have 23M in cash assets. Look at the financials.. last year Funcom had 4M in debt... now they have 25M. In February, Funcom borrowed 23M and that is the only reason their 'cash assets' jumped. They convinced somebody that AoC was going to be the next WOW. That bank had as huge of an 'awakening' as players had with launch. They were expecting funcom to be profitable and to be able to pay them back.. instead Funcom lost 8M and it's stock is tanking. The person who approved that loan probably feels like a player who bought the CE addition and a 6 month subscription.
The key thing to look for in the 2Q report are two lines
1. Cash assets at beginning of period 52M
2. Cash assets at end of period 36M
Net cash flow = Negative 16M
Stock is down below $8 per share.. that is half of what it was when the company went public 5 years ago.
This thread is just full of bad information 1. Funcom is not in good shape. They spent 50M to produce and launch AOC ( 22M they borrowed in February). They only made 20% of box sales, which is 8M dollars. The rest goes to retailers and distributers. So basically they paid 50M to generate 8M. 3. Funcom LOST 8M in the 2nd quarter, despite the sales they got from boxes. They also had about -15M in cashflow and currently only have enough cash for about 6 more months of operation. 4. Funcom currently has 32M cash assets, and is in debt about 30M. 23M of that is short term debt which has to be repayed in the next 2 years. Seeing how Funcom lost 8M in the second quarter, it makes it difficult to see where they are going to get that 23M from. 5. All the major stock indexs are down about 5% over the past 2 years. Funcom's stock is down 50% over the same period... and is down a whopping 80% since it's high in may. When stock markets have 'bad' days.. it's usually 2-3%.... Funcom has had about 10 days in the past month where it's stock has dropped more than 10% and it hasn't had two positive days in a row since June. 6. Even with 800k box sales and 400k subscribers in the 2nd quarter.. Funcom LOST 8M dollars. How much bigger will that loss be when they don't have 800k box sales.
Learn to read a quarterly report. Funcom has 36M in cash assets and 21M in short term debt. Even though they spent a considerable amount launching the game they still have more in cash assets and more total worth than the same time last year. Considerably more. They're making money not going broke. One day you people will realize AOC isn't Funcom's only source of revenue and they actually made money when AOC was all expense and no income.
Funcom has NEVER made money. They have had negative EPS every quarter since they have been a publicly traded company. In the second quarter they lost 7.1M, in 2Q07 they only lost 1.7M. You continue to confuse 'sales' with 'profits'. Yes.. funcom has plenty of income, but they are spending far more than they are bringing in.. that is what that Negative means in front of the 7.1 and 1.7 in the quarterly report. In fact, if you look at the financial report, almost every number has a big negative in front of it.
Yes, Funcom has more in cash assets than they ever did in their past (32M), but that is ENTIRELY borrowed money. If I have 0 money, and I borrow 23M dollars, suddenly.. guess what.. I have 23M in cash assets. Look at the financials.. last year Funcom had 4M in debt... now they have 25M. In February, Funcom borrowed 23M and that is the only reason their 'cash assets' jumped. They convinced somebody that AoC was going to be the next WOW. That bank had as huge of an 'awakening' as players had with launch. They were expecting funcom to be profitable and to be able to pay them back.. instead Funcom lost 8M and it's stock is tanking. The person who approved that loan probably feels like a player who bought the CE addition and a 6 month subscription.
The key thing to look for in the 2Q report are two lines
1. Cash assets at beginning of period 52M
2. Cash assets at end of period 36M
Net cash flow = Negative 16M
Stock is down below $8 per share.. that is half of what it was when the company went public 5 years ago.
/Applause
Concise, concrete and correct. Excellent post.
"The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion." -Edmund Burke
Who will rise up for me against the evildoers? or who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity?" (Psalm 94:16)
This thread is just full of bad information 1. Funcom is not in good shape. They spent 50M to produce and launch AOC ( 22M they borrowed in February). They only made 20% of box sales, which is 8M dollars. The rest goes to retailers and distributers. So basically they paid 50M to generate 8M. 3. Funcom LOST 8M in the 2nd quarter, despite the sales they got from boxes. They also had about -15M in cashflow and currently only have enough cash for about 6 more months of operation. 4. Funcom currently has 32M cash assets, and is in debt about 30M. 23M of that is short term debt which has to be repayed in the next 2 years. Seeing how Funcom lost 8M in the second quarter, it makes it difficult to see where they are going to get that 23M from. 5. All the major stock indexs are down about 5% over the past 2 years. Funcom's stock is down 50% over the same period... and is down a whopping 80% since it's high in may. When stock markets have 'bad' days.. it's usually 2-3%.... Funcom has had about 10 days in the past month where it's stock has dropped more than 10% and it hasn't had two positive days in a row since June. 6. Even with 800k box sales and 400k subscribers in the 2nd quarter.. Funcom LOST 8M dollars. How much bigger will that loss be when they don't have 800k box sales.
Learn to read a quarterly report. Funcom has 36M in cash assets and 21M in short term debt. Even though they spent a considerable amount launching the game they still have more in cash assets and more total worth than the same time last year. Considerably more. They're making money not going broke. One day you people will realize AOC isn't Funcom's only source of revenue and they actually made money when AOC was all expense and no income.
Funcom has NEVER made money. They have had negative EPS every quarter since they have been a publicly traded company. In the second quarter they lost 7.1M, in 2Q07 they only lost 1.7M. You continue to confuse 'sales' with 'profits'. Yes.. funcom has plenty of income, but they are spending far more than they are bringing in.. that is what that Negative means in front of the 7.1 and 1.7 in the quarterly report. In fact, if you look at the financial report, almost every number has a big negative in front of it.
Yes, Funcom has more in cash assets than they ever did in their past (32M), but that is ENTIRELY borrowed money. If I have 0 money, and I borrow 23M dollars, suddenly.. guess what.. I have 23M in cash assets. Look at the financials.. last year Funcom had 4M in debt... now they have 25M. In February, Funcom borrowed 23M and that is the only reason their 'cash assets' jumped. They convinced somebody that AoC was going to be the next WOW. That bank had as huge of an 'awakening' as players had with launch. They were expecting funcom to be profitable and to be able to pay them back.. instead Funcom lost 8M and it's stock is tanking. The person who approved that loan probably feels like a player who bought the CE addition and a 6 month subscription.
The key thing to look for in the 2Q report are two lines
1. Cash assets at beginning of period 52M
2. Cash assets at end of period 36M
Net cash flow = Negative 16M
Stock is down below $8 per share.. that is half of what it was when the company went public 5 years ago.
Sorry Zymurgeist but Azrile 8/10 and you a tardy 2/10 in this debate
He's factually correct in his understanding of the financial state of Funcom
Well guys lets put it this way when AO was released it was huge flop they game was basically broken, Funcom was way way more in debt and without money ... it went so far that they made game free until its fixed ( that was at release )
AO never really recovered from release fiasco and now 7 years later they still support that game, despite everything.
People are just naive if they think Funcom will flop because of AoC, or they dont plan to support it anymore etc... If worse come to worse they can A:) Downsize the company a lot ( so far they are still hiring) , B:) Sell the AoC etc...
Funcom will still support the game they worked ON and maybe after 6 months to a year if they see they cant make AoC main stream MMO and will stay in same subs numbers as Lotro/EQ2/Linage II etc.. they can decide to provide only limited support to the game. ( as Sony did with vanguard ) The fact is the game was released unfinished ( well most does ) with huge lack of end game content and with borked features ( most MMO's did that way better then Funcom did ) .
There are stil a lot of players playing and enjoying it so its not as bad as some want you to think ... heh but its far from good either.
Making game so easy to level up then not providing good end game content is ...
p.s. Still playing Age of Conan and have fun, despite the flaws
There is a difference between AO and AOC.
The past 5 years, they have been 'supporting' AO because the company could borrow against the release of AOC. For the past 5 years this company has stayed alive on the dream that is AOC. First, 5 years ago they went public....this brought in a huge amount of money. The IPO was ALL ABOUT AOC. Then, over the past year, they have borrowed money directly from the bank against AOC.
AOC has been the thing in their future that they could point to to justify the loans and IPO.
The problem is that Funcom has NOTHING in its future that they can now say " we will become profitable when......". If they weren't profitable with AOC in the 2nd quarter when they had 800k boxes sell, they will never be profitable. That is why the stock continues to nosedive day after day.
You are right, at some point they will try to sell AOC.... but who will buy it? EA has Warhammer, Sony has EQ2.... What company is going to pay any significant money for the right to support a game that is bleeding subscribers. Would you spend money to buy a game that loses money? If they do sell AOC, it will be put on serious life support.. no devs, no real support. When you have games that are growing and thriving like LotRO, Warhammer and WOW... do you really want to play a game that never gets updated?
I think you are being a little too sentimental if you think AOC won't be closed down because the devs worked 5 years on the game. That isn't how companies operate.
Well at $7.51 now. I expect some sort of press release today by funcom on the AOC expansion or the ao engine to try and stop this fall if its not already to late.
This thread is just full of bad information 1. Funcom is not in good shape. They spent 50M to produce and launch AOC ( 22M they borrowed in February). They only made 20% of box sales, which is 8M dollars. The rest goes to retailers and distributers. So basically they paid 50M to generate 8M. 3. Funcom LOST 8M in the 2nd quarter, despite the sales they got from boxes. They also had about -15M in cashflow and currently only have enough cash for about 6 more months of operation. 4. Funcom currently has 32M cash assets, and is in debt about 30M. 23M of that is short term debt which has to be repayed in the next 2 years. Seeing how Funcom lost 8M in the second quarter, it makes it difficult to see where they are going to get that 23M from. 5. All the major stock indexs are down about 5% over the past 2 years. Funcom's stock is down 50% over the same period... and is down a whopping 80% since it's high in may. When stock markets have 'bad' days.. it's usually 2-3%.... Funcom has had about 10 days in the past month where it's stock has dropped more than 10% and it hasn't had two positive days in a row since June. 6. Even with 800k box sales and 400k subscribers in the 2nd quarter.. Funcom LOST 8M dollars. How much bigger will that loss be when they don't have 800k box sales.
Learn to read a quarterly report. Funcom has 36M in cash assets and 21M in short term debt. Even though they spent a considerable amount launching the game they still have more in cash assets and more total worth than the same time last year. Considerably more. They're making money not going broke. One day you people will realize AOC isn't Funcom's only source of revenue and they actually made money when AOC was all expense and no income.
Funcom has NEVER made money. They have had negative EPS every quarter since they have been a publicly traded company. In the second quarter they lost 7.1M, in 2Q07 they only lost 1.7M. You continue to confuse 'sales' with 'profits'. Yes.. funcom has plenty of income, but they are spending far more than they are bringing in.. that is what that Negative means in front of the 7.1 and 1.7 in the quarterly report. In fact, if you look at the financial report, almost every number has a big negative in front of it.
Yes, Funcom has more in cash assets than they ever did in their past (32M), but that is ENTIRELY borrowed money. If I have 0 money, and I borrow 23M dollars, suddenly.. guess what.. I have 23M in cash assets. Look at the financials.. last year Funcom had 4M in debt... now they have 25M. In February, Funcom borrowed 23M and that is the only reason their 'cash assets' jumped. They convinced somebody that AoC was going to be the next WOW. That bank had as huge of an 'awakening' as players had with launch. They were expecting funcom to be profitable and to be able to pay them back.. instead Funcom lost 8M and it's stock is tanking. The person who approved that loan probably feels like a player who bought the CE addition and a 6 month subscription.
The key thing to look for in the 2Q report are two lines
1. Cash assets at beginning of period 52M
2. Cash assets at end of period 36M
Net cash flow = Negative 16M
Stock is down below $8 per share.. that is half of what it was when the company went public 5 years ago.
This is what's known as the "big lie" Learn to read annual reports.
haha. 350k sold shares today show you are wrong. Stock has now lost 20% of it's value in 5hrs this morning.
I wonder if Lit got banned again?
Even if the stock hits zero it doesn't mean the company is broke. Learn what stocks are.
maybe you should take your own advice....
FunCom when they went public started at 12.00 in stock prices.
through investors buying they went up to 52.
now they are lower than they were when they went public.
7.58 (atm) does in fact mean they are CLOSE to being BROKE.... because stocks are another form of investment capital..... the more investors that try and regain some of their original investment the lower the stock price will be.
FunCom is going down.... I honestly didnt think they would get THIS low
This is what's known as the "big lie" Learn to read annual reports.
haha. 350k sold shares today show you are wrong. Stock has now lost 20% of it's value in 5hrs this morning.
I wonder if Lit got banned again?
Even if the stock hits zero it doesn't mean the company is broke. Learn what stocks are.
A stock going to 0 does not CAUSE a company to go bankrupt. A stock going to 0 is a sign that the company IS going bankrupt.
A virus causes a fever. just like going bankrupt causes a stock to dive. You don't look at someone with a fever and say " Oh my goodness, that person might catch a virus someday". The fever is the indication of what is going on inside the body, just like a plummeting stock price is an indication funcom is going bankrupt.
because stocks are another form of investment capital..... the more investors that try and regain some of their original investment the lower the stock price will be.
FunCom is going down.... I honestly didnt think they would get THIS low
So you think every company that had a failed IPO went broke and ceased to exist? Stocks are a form of raising capital. If you already have enough capital and cashflow to weather the storm you survive. Funcom does.
They do? I think that at this moment they might, but with 16m in negative cash flow, how long can we expect them to have enough cash?
because stocks are another form of investment capital..... the more investors that try and regain some of their original investment the lower the stock price will be.
FunCom is going down.... I honestly didnt think they would get THIS low
So you think every company that had a failed IPO went broke and ceased to exist? Stocks are a form of raising capital. If you already have enough capital and cashflow to weather the storm you survive. Funcom does.
They do? I think that at this moment they might, but with 16m in negative cash flow, how long can we expect them to have enough cash?
Lum you're looking into the past and projecting into the future with no change. They [i]had[/i] a negative cash flow. If they've cut expenses enough that won't be true when the third quarter reports come out.
It would be very unfortunate if we were restricted from posting negative threads about studio's here due to mmorpg.com earning advertising revenues from said studios. These days it is difficult to get information about sub numbers and so on, so as a community we often look for secondary indicators that may tell us something about the financial success of a game. Since Funcom is a publicly traded company with a large portion of its assets dedicated to AoC, its stock price provides a reasonably meaningful measure of the games true success. The financial success of a game has implications for content addition, expansions, bug fixing, and in extreme cases server merges or even server closures. So yes I argue Developer's stock prices are relevant discussion for MMO enthusiasts.
Totally agree, this was very very well said. I feel grateful to be part of this community with comments like these. Also agree I'd ask the mods specifically why it was closed. I had a thread closed that I started without knowing why. It turned into a "fire out of control" and though I don't agree it should've been closed, I do understand why the mods did so. Ultimately it is their turf, but surely would stay only if we had the freedom to say positive things about what we like or negative things about what we don't like...otherwise there's no point to saying anything at all.
because stocks are another form of investment capital..... the more investors that try and regain some of their original investment the lower the stock price will be.
FunCom is going down.... I honestly didnt think they would get THIS low
So you think every company that had a failed IPO went broke and ceased to exist? Stocks are a form of raising capital. If you already have enough capital and cashflow to weather the storm you survive. Funcom does.
They do? I think that at this moment they might, but with 16m in negative cash flow, how long can we expect them to have enough cash?
Lum you're looking into the past and projecting into the future with no change. They [i]had[/i] a negative cash flow. If they've cut expenses enough that won't be true when the third quarter reports come out.
And you missed a point I made early on
They LOST money and had 16M in negative cash flow WHEN they had 800k box sales and 415k subscribers. Yes, you are right, they could cut costs and be cash flow neutral..... if they had 800k box sales and 415k subscribers in September.
For anyone who wonders why the stock price/financials matter.. Now you know why the pvp patch that was promised in June still hasn't been released, they have few devs still working on the game.
there are still people arguing about this? who cares about stocks? AoC is a decent game, may not be my cup of tea but it's better than most out there. But for those who enjoy the game...do you think they really care about stocks? do you think FC will fold if they have low stocks? of course they wont.
Just as a matter of interest but are SoE's stocks still climbing and reaching amazing heights?
There is a difference between AO and AOC. The past 5 years, they have been 'supporting' AO because the company could borrow against the release of AOC.
Well how about their new MMO's The Secret World, and some kiddy MMO's they were planing, and xbox AoC release and Russian version of AoC and Asian version of AoC etc...
How about all those shares some CEO dumped in Funcom a while ago, basically they can go very very low they have money, they can buy off their own shares at all time low ( yes they did sell them too for very high price ) and sell them eventually when it raises a bit.
May 26 (Bloomberg)
The shares fell 3.7 kroner, or 7 percent, to 49.3 kroner, the steepest slide since Jan. 21. The stock has almost doubled so far this year, giving the Oslo-based company at market value of 2.6 billion kroner ($520 million)www.bloomberg.com/apps/news
Well think about it a bit. someone did get very rich here .. and now with AoC fiasco launch "someone" get get his company back very cheaply.
Think about it
( people are naive its not all black and white .... )
p.s. Its all just speculation, I could care less what will happen.
That is the point. They borrowed money against Conan and lost.
Do you think anyone is going to loan them money to make a new game when they bombed with a brand name like Conan. " yes, you lost our 23M by releasing Conan"... " here is another 23M so you can release a game without a name anyone heard of". " Yes, here is 23M because we feel the third time is the charm". Funcom is too deeply in debt to ever get another loan... banks look at profits and debt before issuing more debt LOL
Also, please stop talking about stocks, you really don't know what you are talking about. If someone 'rebuys' stock, its not like Funcom gets any of that money. If I buy Ford at $8, then sell it at $15, then buy it again at $8.. yes, I as an individual made a lot of money... but it is no help to Ford.
Yes, someone got rich when the stock went from $15 to $55... but guess what.. it was nobody at Funcom. Nobody at funcom sold their shares in April ( it gets reported). The CEO sold his shares after it tanked.
If the stock continues to fall, it will be 'easy' for someone to swoop in and buy Funcom.. but why would they? Why would you buy a company that is losing a ton of money and has no prospects of ever making money.
Funcom's ability to generate profits is what it all comes down too. Ao a game with 10-20k players a majority of which are froobs that pay no money. AOC a game that is bleeding to death at a slow and steady pace. A reputation that is ruined for years as cheats, cons and liars. Then we have an upcoming bug fix expansion that nobody is going to buy as its paying twice for the same product promised at launch. Will you pay twice for false promises? Now add on a massive debt that has put an execution date on your company. This company is not profitable.
How many here plan on buying the aoc bugfix expansion or the secret world knowing now how funcom does business?
Comments
it wont. Vanguard was in a worse situation ad its still going so no need to talk about stock prices.
its not that easy for an mmo to go down.
3 silver bullets to the brain, a golden stake through the heart, garlic infused .50 rounds to the lower body and a napalm bomb filled with holy water should do it...
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
No matter what ppl are arguing about. The stocs just took another dive today (-13%) and under 9 Nkr. the stocks are now getting close to 50% LOWER value than they were when the company went on the stockmarket.
Maybe the company will be able to turn it around. But I guess even the investrors can figure out that 49 half empty servers that cost loads of money to maintain + big releases from other MMOs will hit the revenues really hard.
No matter what FUncom is promising atm - AOC is no longer their priority. Cause it simply will not make them money - they will keep on loosing money.
Well guys lets put it this way when AO was released it was huge flop they game was basically broken, Funcom was way way more in debt and without money ... it went so far that they made game free until its fixed ( that was at release )
AO never really recovered from release fiasco and now 7 years later they still support that game, despite everything.
People are just naive if they think Funcom will flop because of AoC, or they dont plan to support it anymore etc...
If worse come to worse they can A:) Downsize the company a lot ( so far they are still hiring) , B:) Sell the AoC etc...
Funcom will still support the game they worked ON and maybe after 6 months to a year if they see they cant make AoC main stream MMO and will stay in same subs numbers as Lotro/EQ2/Linage II etc.. they can decide to provide only limited support to the game. ( as Sony did with vanguard )
The fact is the game was released unfinished ( well most does ) with huge lack of end game content and with borked features ( most MMO's did that way better then Funcom did ) .
There are stil a lot of players playing and enjoying it so its not as bad as some want you to think ... heh but its far from good either.
Making game so easy to level up then not providing good end game content is ...
p.s. Still playing Age of Conan and have fun, despite the flaws
Futilez[Do You Have What It Takes ?]
Update on the stocks
Going under 8 NKR now.
And ppl are STILL SELLING like no tomorrow.
over 18% fall in 4 hours. PPL are fine to say everything is just fine. But it doesn't mean that everything is fine...
Learn to read a quarterly report. Funcom has 36M in cash assets and 21M in short term debt. Even though they spent a considerable amount launching the game they still have more in cash assets and more total worth than the same time last year. Considerably more. They're making money not going broke. One day you people will realize AOC isn't Funcom's only source of revenue and they actually made money when AOC was all expense and no income.
Funcom has NEVER made money. They have had negative EPS every quarter since they have been a publicly traded company. In the second quarter they lost 7.1M, in 2Q07 they only lost 1.7M. You continue to confuse 'sales' with 'profits'. Yes.. funcom has plenty of income, but they are spending far more than they are bringing in.. that is what that Negative means in front of the 7.1 and 1.7 in the quarterly report. In fact, if you look at the financial report, almost every number has a big negative in front of it.
Yes, Funcom has more in cash assets than they ever did in their past (32M), but that is ENTIRELY borrowed money. If I have 0 money, and I borrow 23M dollars, suddenly.. guess what.. I have 23M in cash assets. Look at the financials.. last year Funcom had 4M in debt... now they have 25M. In February, Funcom borrowed 23M and that is the only reason their 'cash assets' jumped. They convinced somebody that AoC was going to be the next WOW. That bank had as huge of an 'awakening' as players had with launch. They were expecting funcom to be profitable and to be able to pay them back.. instead Funcom lost 8M and it's stock is tanking. The person who approved that loan probably feels like a player who bought the CE addition and a 6 month subscription.
The key thing to look for in the 2Q report are two lines
1. Cash assets at beginning of period 52M
2. Cash assets at end of period 36M
Net cash flow = Negative 16M
Stock is down below $8 per share.. that is half of what it was when the company went public 5 years ago.
Learn to read a quarterly report. Funcom has 36M in cash assets and 21M in short term debt. Even though they spent a considerable amount launching the game they still have more in cash assets and more total worth than the same time last year. Considerably more. They're making money not going broke. One day you people will realize AOC isn't Funcom's only source of revenue and they actually made money when AOC was all expense and no income.
Funcom has NEVER made money. They have had negative EPS every quarter since they have been a publicly traded company. In the second quarter they lost 7.1M, in 2Q07 they only lost 1.7M. You continue to confuse 'sales' with 'profits'. Yes.. funcom has plenty of income, but they are spending far more than they are bringing in.. that is what that Negative means in front of the 7.1 and 1.7 in the quarterly report. In fact, if you look at the financial report, almost every number has a big negative in front of it.
Yes, Funcom has more in cash assets than they ever did in their past (32M), but that is ENTIRELY borrowed money. If I have 0 money, and I borrow 23M dollars, suddenly.. guess what.. I have 23M in cash assets. Look at the financials.. last year Funcom had 4M in debt... now they have 25M. In February, Funcom borrowed 23M and that is the only reason their 'cash assets' jumped. They convinced somebody that AoC was going to be the next WOW. That bank had as huge of an 'awakening' as players had with launch. They were expecting funcom to be profitable and to be able to pay them back.. instead Funcom lost 8M and it's stock is tanking. The person who approved that loan probably feels like a player who bought the CE addition and a 6 month subscription.
The key thing to look for in the 2Q report are two lines
1. Cash assets at beginning of period 52M
2. Cash assets at end of period 36M
Net cash flow = Negative 16M
Stock is down below $8 per share.. that is half of what it was when the company went public 5 years ago.
/Applause
Concise, concrete and correct. Excellent post.
"The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion." -Edmund Burke
Who will rise up for me against the evildoers? or who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity?"
(Psalm 94:16)
We're $7.70 now and no mod has answered my question. Pretty soon I may have to change this threads topic to "how funcom bankruptcy effects aoc".
Learn to read a quarterly report. Funcom has 36M in cash assets and 21M in short term debt. Even though they spent a considerable amount launching the game they still have more in cash assets and more total worth than the same time last year. Considerably more. They're making money not going broke. One day you people will realize AOC isn't Funcom's only source of revenue and they actually made money when AOC was all expense and no income.
Funcom has NEVER made money. They have had negative EPS every quarter since they have been a publicly traded company. In the second quarter they lost 7.1M, in 2Q07 they only lost 1.7M. You continue to confuse 'sales' with 'profits'. Yes.. funcom has plenty of income, but they are spending far more than they are bringing in.. that is what that Negative means in front of the 7.1 and 1.7 in the quarterly report. In fact, if you look at the financial report, almost every number has a big negative in front of it.
Yes, Funcom has more in cash assets than they ever did in their past (32M), but that is ENTIRELY borrowed money. If I have 0 money, and I borrow 23M dollars, suddenly.. guess what.. I have 23M in cash assets. Look at the financials.. last year Funcom had 4M in debt... now they have 25M. In February, Funcom borrowed 23M and that is the only reason their 'cash assets' jumped. They convinced somebody that AoC was going to be the next WOW. That bank had as huge of an 'awakening' as players had with launch. They were expecting funcom to be profitable and to be able to pay them back.. instead Funcom lost 8M and it's stock is tanking. The person who approved that loan probably feels like a player who bought the CE addition and a 6 month subscription.
The key thing to look for in the 2Q report are two lines
1. Cash assets at beginning of period 52M
2. Cash assets at end of period 36M
Net cash flow = Negative 16M
Stock is down below $8 per share.. that is half of what it was when the company went public 5 years ago.
Sorry Zymurgeist but Azrile 8/10 and you a tardy 2/10 in this debate
He's factually correct in his understanding of the financial state of Funcom
"after the time of dice came the day of mice "
There is a difference between AO and AOC.
The past 5 years, they have been 'supporting' AO because the company could borrow against the release of AOC. For the past 5 years this company has stayed alive on the dream that is AOC. First, 5 years ago they went public....this brought in a huge amount of money. The IPO was ALL ABOUT AOC. Then, over the past year, they have borrowed money directly from the bank against AOC.
AOC has been the thing in their future that they could point to to justify the loans and IPO.
The problem is that Funcom has NOTHING in its future that they can now say " we will become profitable when......". If they weren't profitable with AOC in the 2nd quarter when they had 800k boxes sell, they will never be profitable. That is why the stock continues to nosedive day after day.
You are right, at some point they will try to sell AOC.... but who will buy it? EA has Warhammer, Sony has EQ2.... What company is going to pay any significant money for the right to support a game that is bleeding subscribers. Would you spend money to buy a game that loses money? If they do sell AOC, it will be put on serious life support.. no devs, no real support. When you have games that are growing and thriving like LotRO, Warhammer and WOW... do you really want to play a game that never gets updated?
I think you are being a little too sentimental if you think AOC won't be closed down because the devs worked 5 years on the game. That isn't how companies operate.
Avery I am still waiting on your reply......
Avery's Challenge
BTW... FC is actually lower in stock value than I actually thought possible.... 7.70 atm.
I think they havent server merged due to the impending shutdown....
Well at $7.51 now. I expect some sort of press release today by funcom on the AOC expansion or the ao engine to try and stop this fall if its not already to late.
This is what's known as the "big lie" Learn to read annual reports.
haha. 350k sold shares today show you are wrong. Stock has now lost 20% of it's value in 5hrs this morning.
I wonder if Lit got banned again?
Learn to read a quarterly report. Funcom has 36M in cash assets and 21M in short term debt. Even though they spent a considerable amount launching the game they still have more in cash assets and more total worth than the same time last year. Considerably more. They're making money not going broke. One day you people will realize AOC isn't Funcom's only source of revenue and they actually made money when AOC was all expense and no income.
Funcom has NEVER made money. They have had negative EPS every quarter since they have been a publicly traded company. In the second quarter they lost 7.1M, in 2Q07 they only lost 1.7M. You continue to confuse 'sales' with 'profits'. Yes.. funcom has plenty of income, but they are spending far more than they are bringing in.. that is what that Negative means in front of the 7.1 and 1.7 in the quarterly report. In fact, if you look at the financial report, almost every number has a big negative in front of it.
Yes, Funcom has more in cash assets than they ever did in their past (32M), but that is ENTIRELY borrowed money. If I have 0 money, and I borrow 23M dollars, suddenly.. guess what.. I have 23M in cash assets. Look at the financials.. last year Funcom had 4M in debt... now they have 25M. In February, Funcom borrowed 23M and that is the only reason their 'cash assets' jumped. They convinced somebody that AoC was going to be the next WOW. That bank had as huge of an 'awakening' as players had with launch. They were expecting funcom to be profitable and to be able to pay them back.. instead Funcom lost 8M and it's stock is tanking. The person who approved that loan probably feels like a player who bought the CE addition and a 6 month subscription.
The key thing to look for in the 2Q report are two lines
1. Cash assets at beginning of period 52M
2. Cash assets at end of period 36M
Net cash flow = Negative 16M
Stock is down below $8 per share.. that is half of what it was when the company went public 5 years ago.
Sounds like one big ponzi scheme to me.
This is what's known as the "big lie" Learn to read annual reports.
haha. 350k sold shares today show you are wrong. Stock has now lost 20% of it's value in 5hrs this morning.
I wonder if Lit got banned again?
Even if the stock hits zero it doesn't mean the company is broke. Learn what stocks are.
maybe you should take your own advice....
FunCom when they went public started at 12.00 in stock prices.
through investors buying they went up to 52.
now they are lower than they were when they went public.
7.58 (atm) does in fact mean they are CLOSE to being BROKE.... because stocks are another form of investment capital..... the more investors that try and regain some of their original investment the lower the stock price will be.
FunCom is going down.... I honestly didnt think they would get THIS low
This is what's known as the "big lie" Learn to read annual reports.
haha. 350k sold shares today show you are wrong. Stock has now lost 20% of it's value in 5hrs this morning.
I wonder if Lit got banned again?
Even if the stock hits zero it doesn't mean the company is broke. Learn what stocks are.
A stock going to 0 does not CAUSE a company to go bankrupt. A stock going to 0 is a sign that the company IS going bankrupt.
A virus causes a fever. just like going bankrupt causes a stock to dive. You don't look at someone with a fever and say " Oh my goodness, that person might catch a virus someday". The fever is the indication of what is going on inside the body, just like a plummeting stock price is an indication funcom is going bankrupt.
So you think every company that had a failed IPO went broke and ceased to exist? Stocks are a form of raising capital. If you already have enough capital and cashflow to weather the storm you survive. Funcom does.
They do? I think that at this moment they might, but with 16m in negative cash flow, how long can we expect them to have enough cash?
-Lum
So you think every company that had a failed IPO went broke and ceased to exist? Stocks are a form of raising capital. If you already have enough capital and cashflow to weather the storm you survive. Funcom does.
They do? I think that at this moment they might, but with 16m in negative cash flow, how long can we expect them to have enough cash?
Lum you're looking into the past and projecting into the future with no change. They [i]had[/i] a negative cash flow. If they've cut expenses enough that won't be true when the third quarter reports come out.
and what do you think they "cut" back on?
Im dieing for you to say AoC live team....lol
I bet those devs have their resumes in elsewhere now.
Z********t...I would stop with trying to tell us thats its sunshining outside when its raining cats and dogs. Azrile is tearin you up.
Totally agree, this was very very well said. I feel grateful to be part of this community with comments like these. Also agree I'd ask the mods specifically why it was closed. I had a thread closed that I started without knowing why. It turned into a "fire out of control" and though I don't agree it should've been closed, I do understand why the mods did so. Ultimately it is their turf, but surely would stay only if we had the freedom to say positive things about what we like or negative things about what we don't like...otherwise there's no point to saying anything at all.
http://www.allaboutgod.com/
So you think every company that had a failed IPO went broke and ceased to exist? Stocks are a form of raising capital. If you already have enough capital and cashflow to weather the storm you survive. Funcom does.
They do? I think that at this moment they might, but with 16m in negative cash flow, how long can we expect them to have enough cash?
Lum you're looking into the past and projecting into the future with no change. They [i]had[/i] a negative cash flow. If they've cut expenses enough that won't be true when the third quarter reports come out.
And you missed a point I made early on
They LOST money and had 16M in negative cash flow WHEN they had 800k box sales and 415k subscribers. Yes, you are right, they could cut costs and be cash flow neutral..... if they had 800k box sales and 415k subscribers in September.
For anyone who wonders why the stock price/financials matter.. Now you know why the pvp patch that was promised in June still hasn't been released, they have few devs still working on the game.
there are still people arguing about this? who cares about stocks? AoC is a decent game, may not be my cup of tea but it's better than most out there. But for those who enjoy the game...do you think they really care about stocks? do you think FC will fold if they have low stocks? of course they wont.
Just as a matter of interest but are SoE's stocks still climbing and reaching amazing heights?
Well how about their new MMO's The Secret World, and some kiddy MMO's they were planing, and xbox AoC release and Russian version of AoC and Asian version of AoC etc...
How about all those shares some CEO dumped in Funcom a while ago, basically they can go very very low they have money, they can buy off their own shares at all time low ( yes they did sell them too for very high price ) and sell them eventually when it raises a bit.
May 26 (Bloomberg)
The shares fell 3.7 kroner, or 7 percent, to 49.3 kroner, the steepest slide since Jan. 21. The stock has almost doubled so far this year, giving the Oslo-based company at market value of 2.6 billion kroner ($520 million) www.bloomberg.com/apps/news
Well think about it a bit. someone did get very rich here .. and now with AoC fiasco launch "someone" get get his company back very cheaply.
Think about it
( people are naive its not all black and white .... )
p.s. Its all just speculation, I could care less what will happen.
Futilez[Do You Have What It Takes ?]
That is the point. They borrowed money against Conan and lost.
Do you think anyone is going to loan them money to make a new game when they bombed with a brand name like Conan. " yes, you lost our 23M by releasing Conan"... " here is another 23M so you can release a game without a name anyone heard of". " Yes, here is 23M because we feel the third time is the charm". Funcom is too deeply in debt to ever get another loan... banks look at profits and debt before issuing more debt LOL
Also, please stop talking about stocks, you really don't know what you are talking about. If someone 'rebuys' stock, its not like Funcom gets any of that money. If I buy Ford at $8, then sell it at $15, then buy it again at $8.. yes, I as an individual made a lot of money... but it is no help to Ford.
Yes, someone got rich when the stock went from $15 to $55... but guess what.. it was nobody at Funcom. Nobody at funcom sold their shares in April ( it gets reported). The CEO sold his shares after it tanked.
If the stock continues to fall, it will be 'easy' for someone to swoop in and buy Funcom.. but why would they? Why would you buy a company that is losing a ton of money and has no prospects of ever making money.
Funcom's ability to generate profits is what it all comes down too. Ao a game with 10-20k players a majority of which are froobs that pay no money. AOC a game that is bleeding to death at a slow and steady pace. A reputation that is ruined for years as cheats, cons and liars. Then we have an upcoming bug fix expansion that nobody is going to buy as its paying twice for the same product promised at launch. Will you pay twice for false promises? Now add on a massive debt that has put an execution date on your company. This company is not profitable.
How many here plan on buying the aoc bugfix expansion or the secret world knowing now how funcom does business?