Wanted to add concerning the "meaningless RvR". If you look closely, fighting over anything anywhere in any respect is pretty much pointless.
I don't want to expand this into real life (where it fits just as well, it doesn't matter if we all die in 5 minutes or live to start the next war) but even if reduced to games:
If you build up a huge alliance like BoB in EvE and conquer half the universe with it, it doesn't matter, the alliance will eventually perish, you can claim the whole universe and one sunshiny day the game will close and all will go to ashes, like everything we do and everything everybody ever did anywhere in the world turned to meaningless, unremembered ashes... but well, I said I wouldn't punch this into the metaphysics corner, so yea... RvR is pretty much pointless in ANY game...
Meridion
I was in FoFF before BoB was really big. Corps like us back in the day made short work of MC.
I am still phoned by BoB to bring my 3 accounts online for Real Life Cash!
For those who like UO and EQ so much, why not try out Vanguard ? Very nice game tbh, it still needs work, that goes for aoc, wow etc to.
I dont know if im going to like WAR, but it seems to be pretty fun, the only concern i have about war is what will make me stay in the game for more that 2-3 months ? Sure RvR and pvp are fun as hell, but that wont last so long.
Anyway, i pay 500SEK for the game, and i think i gonna play it for 2 months more i hope, so that are well invested money since most of the SP games out there have the same price and gives me 5-8 hour playtime
For those who like UO and EQ so much, why not try out Vanguard ? Very nice game tbh, it still needs work, that goes for aoc, wow etc to. I dont know if im going to like WAR, but it seems to be pretty fun, the only concern i have about war is what will make me stay in the game for more that 2-3 months ? Sure RvR and pvp are fun as hell, but that wont last so long.
Anyway, i pay 500SEK for the game, and i think i gonna play it for 2 months more i hope, so that are well invested money since most of the SP games out there have the same price and gives me 5-8 hour playtime
At least we can all agree its better than any of them Item Mall games from Asia
Wanted to add concerning the "meaningless RvR". If you look closely, fighting over anything anywhere in any respect is pretty much pointless. I don't want to expand this into real life (where it fits just as well, it doesn't matter if we all die in 5 minutes or live to start the next war) but even if reduced to games: If you build up a huge alliance like BoB in EvE and conquer half the universe with it, it doesn't matter, the alliance will eventually perish, you can claim the whole universe and one sunshiny day the game will close and all will go to ashes, like everything we do and everything everybody ever did anywhere in the world turned to meaningless, unremembered ashes... but well, I said I wouldn't punch this into the metaphysics corner, so yea... RvR is pretty much pointless in ANY game... Meridion
I was in FoFF before BoB was really big. Corps like us back in the day made short work of MC.
I am still phoned by BoB to bring my 3 accounts online for Real Life Cash!
Which is essentially as futile. Real life cash doesn't get you anywhere, even if capitalism wants you to think so. You will get richer, or poorer, and eventually die, leaving everything you've ever done or planned as crumbling memories of people that will also die.
Devs don't. Publishers do. Linear games are cheaper to produce and simpler for the idiot legions of the world to understand.
actually UO style games are cheaper to produce. They dont ahve to pay script writers, level editors, etc to buidl quests, encounters & the like. They plop down some mechanics, some skills, give the players some items to play with and let them run free. Sandbox games the truest kind that is like UO or SL are incredibly cheap to produce.
The hybrid versions like SWG pre NGU how ever are expensive, unreliable, and in constant need of balancing & maintance. This is why SWG failed it tried to be everything and a bag of chips but couldn't pull itself together and couldn't target a big enough audience. The Star Wars brand alone should of been enough to pull in millions but it didn't because the game was half a bag of chip crumbs when it actually worked properly. Lucas & SOE made it worse by trying to retarget the game long after launch despite having a semi healthy community that wold of grown if they'd given their game a bit more love.
True Sandbox games are overrated in my opinion. They have little to offer as far as content and everything relys on the players well you know what? ALot of people on the net are asswipes and they seem to shine in games where players rule the planet. Its why I won't go anywhere near true sandbox games, if you like sandbox games you really should consider that looking at non sandbox games and bitching a storm does no good. Infact it makes you look like an ass (no i dont think your an ass you atleast tried it and made your decision so whatever floats your boat).
You either accept a game is designed around a specific model or don't. Bitching / calling the game crap gets you no where. I personally enjoy structured games, I dont have a ton of time on my hands and structure games give me a feeling of accomplishment. Open ended games often leave me feeling behind everyone else if not completely out of the loop...hell they did even when I did have more time.
I wanted to like this game. I really did. I started with UO way back in the day, and I loved the sandbox feeling to it: the ability to do whatever you want when you want to do it, to build your character any way you please, the wide open world to explore (fully) at your leisure from day 1. EverQuest continued that awesome feeling, though to a lesser extend in some departments, and DAoC lived up to it fine also. And then came a spider that "revolutionized" the industry, not by giving players more options, but rather by taking options away. That is the legacy of WoW: take away 90% of the content so the remaining 10% can be perfected and made as droning as possible. Grinding became the WoW core philosophy, and almost anything you could possibly do in the game could be focused into one of four simple goals: rep gain, honor gain, experience gain, or raiding progression. I played WoW for awhile, and I enjoyed it for awhile. Azeroth as least maintained the illusion of a sandbox world with a simplified crafting system and a variety of illusory "goals" for players to pursue. But when all the points are tallied in WoW, you realize that those 4 categories I mentioned earlier utterly dominate the game. You cannot possibly, in any way, shape, or form, escape them--there is no way to do new, creative, and/or exciting things. So, in the hope that Warhammer could do one better than WoW, I quit and waited for the open beta. Wow, am I disappointed. My problems with Warhammer are numerous, so I'll begin laying them out by category: The PvE Game: Probably my single biggest beef with the way things are right now. PQs are a joke, general PvE is absolutely laughable. Not one single class has any difficulty whatsoever soloing normal class mobs, and most classes can handle champions just fine with some preparation. Heroes obviously present a problem, but it's rare to encounter them, except in PQs. Because of the ease of monster killing, questing literally becomes a chain of "run here, smash these buttons, run back." And PQs are equally as redundant, with each one seeming exactly the same as the last. And because of the way the victory point system is currently structured, PvE counts almost for nothing anyway: the victory point reward for capturing tier objectives HEAVILY outweighs that of completing multiple quests or PQs. So why PvE? It's not a fun alternative to PvP, it's not a fun way to effectively earn victory points, and it's flat out not fun. Scenarios: While sometimes scenarios can be entertaining, there is no way balancing the combat. Level or class distributions can heavily shift the inherent advantage from one team to another, and the sad fact is that on each racial front, one side does have an inherent class distribution advantage against the other. Even if you do manage to get a fairly even distribution of careers and levels for your scenario, frankly, the scenery gets boring. Since you can only queue for the single scenario for the battlefront you are in, your only Tier 1 option as an elf is to literally do Khane's Embrace over and over and over again, unless you have a friend in a different battlefront who can queue up for you. The inability to queue for other scenarios without huffing it a couple hundred miles across the ocen really puts a damper on things. Also, the queue system, in my opinion, is heavily flawed, oftentimes preventing players of heavily populated realms from joining scenarios at all. The game frankly needs more scenarios and a better way of managing realm populations--otherwise, scenarios should have never been implemented, as they take away from the only other fun thing to do: Open RvR: While 3/4 of your realm is either hacking it out in scenarios or standing around twiddling their thumbs waiting to get into one, you and your small band of lackeys decide to scour the countryside, searching for some fresh enemy meat. Trouble is, there isn't any. Despite having spent many hours in the Tiers 1 and 2 open RvR areas, I have seen a grand total of 2 people and have effectively killed exactly one. Capturing objectives, too, is something of a joke, since there is no incentive for the enemy to defend them. You can buy renown gear at any keep you control, which means if you simply go out and take a different keep instead of defending the one you currently control, you can just as easily get the stuff you need. Capturing a new keep also almost always awards more renown and exp than defending one you already control, so why the hell should I defend? Why should my enemies defend? And what good is open RvR if the RvR aspect of it -takes away- from the good old PvP? WHERE'S DA FIGHT?: The chat system is probably the worst suited for what it needs to do that I've seen in recent history. There is no way to warn or be warned about incoming enemy attacks or the location of a nearby group of enemy soldiers. The map indicates ongoing fights, but what if there are none? If a few of my buddies and I are out riding the countryside and spot a dastardly group of our arrogant brethren--but are too vastly outnumbered to engage them--wtf do we do? Hide? Run away? Send a carrier pigeon with a greeting card to beg for mercy? The inability to call for reinforcements is sorely missed, and with it is missed the sense of community created by defending your homeland alongside your brothers. While guild and warband chat can be used to this extent, the viability of this versus intel coming from your entire realm in that area is next to nil. This game doesn't need a better way to find the fight--not really. It needs more interaction between friendly players. Without it, we might as well be playing Planetside, Guild Wars, or, well, Crysis for that matter. So What?: Nothing you can do in this game--nothing--matters. If you capture your enemy's capital city, the conflict resets. Whoop da whoop. If you reach R40 RR80, you are still a single person with only a very, VERY slightly increased ability to contribute to the overall war effort. There is no overall sense of war effort like there was in DAoC, where capturing your enemy's relic meant the display of a PERMANENT symbol of glory and a realm-wide buff--but only for as long as you could defend those precious objects. In WAR, I wonder why I should care about my enemy's city. Sure, it's big, it's shiny. It would suck for them if we blew it up. But then the thought hits me: wait, no it wouldn't... it's not even all that great for us. I can't see anything at all to accomplish as a realm in this game. And that, for an RvR experience, is a devastatingly crippling blow. So far, I can't understand why people are so excited about this game. It seems lackluster, at best, continuing with WoW's trend of limiting things you can actually do in an effort to perfect those possible playstyles. Yet, despite Mythic's efforts to focus on the RvR experiene, it seems a bit beyond 12 steps below lackluster to me. There is no iconinc force in the game, nothing to make me care about the war my race is fighting. There is no sense of cooperation between players, no common goal or unifying spirit. The PvE game is laughable, the PvP game is not truly focused on PvP (but rather on "winning," which can theoretically be done without killing a single player), and the epic experience that an RPG is supposed to offer is depressingly absent. Yes, this game is very bug-free for release; yes, it performs very well. But have any of you stopped to consider why this should be hailed as a "good" game? I'm sad to say it, but I don't think this game will be the one that stands this genre back up on its feet. If anything, this is the straw that pierced the lion's heart: I firmly believe that we may never see a truly solid MMO experience ever again. And the fact that the sentiments expressed above are those of a small minority only push that expectation forward. Sorry guys: I just don't get it.
Oh, just use the first two words in the post title, leave off the rest.
Wanted to add concerning the "meaningless RvR". If you look closely, fighting over anything anywhere in any respect is pretty much pointless.
I don't want to expand this into real life (where it fits just as well, it doesn't matter if we all die in 5 minutes or live to start the next war) but even if reduced to games:
If you build up a huge alliance like BoB in EvE and conquer half the universe with it, it doesn't matter, the alliance will eventually perish, you can claim the whole universe and one sunshiny day the game will close and all will go to ashes, like everything we do and everything everybody ever did anywhere in the world turned to meaningless, unremembered ashes... but well, I said I wouldn't punch this into the metaphysics corner, so yea... RvR is pretty much pointless in ANY game...
is a philosophical position which argues that existence is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value. Nihilists generally assert some or all of the following:
* Objective morality does not exist.
* No action is logically preferable to any other in regard to the moral value of one action over another.
* In the absence of objective morality, existence has no intrinsic higher meaning or goal.
* There is no reasonable proof or argument for the existence of a higher ruler or creator.
* Even if a higher ruler or creator exists, humanity has no moral obligation to worship them.
The term nihilism is sometimes used synonymously with anomie to denote a general mood of despair at the pointlessness of existence.[1]
Trouble is, there isn't any. Despite having spent many hours in the Tiers 1 and 2 open RvR areas, I have seen a grand total of 2 people and have effectively killed exactly one.
Because, you know, the game has not been released yet. So, you know, there may be an issue with finding victums..
Wanted to add concerning the "meaningless RvR". If you look closely, fighting over anything anywhere in any respect is pretty much pointless. I don't want to expand this into real life (where it fits just as well, it doesn't matter if we all die in 5 minutes or live to start the next war) but even if reduced to games: If you build up a huge alliance like BoB in EvE and conquer half the universe with it, it doesn't matter, the alliance will eventually perish, you can claim the whole universe and one sunshiny day the game will close and all will go to ashes, like everything we do and everything everybody ever did anywhere in the world turned to meaningless, unremembered ashes... but well, I said I wouldn't punch this into the metaphysics corner, so yea... RvR is pretty much pointless in ANY game... Meridion
I was in FoFF before BoB was really big. Corps like us back in the day made short work of MC.
I am still phoned by BoB to bring my 3 accounts online for Real Life Cash!
Which is essentially as futile. Real life cash doesn't get you anywhere, even if capitalism wants you to think so. You will get richer, or poorer, and eventually die, leaving everything you've ever done or planned as crumbling memories of people that will also die.
You dont have to see how this is a good game for me. Just see how this game is not a good game for you and move on. The reason why there are so many mmo's out there is so that you pick the one that fits you the most. You don't like certain features of the game? Fine, you have your reasons. I love most of the features this game has to offer, I have my reasons. And I won't try to convince you on how cool I think the features are, but please respect people that enjoy the game.
No, you don't understand. I really want someone to explain to me what makes this a good game. I don't see it, but there are so many people who like it, there must be a reason, right? Maybe I give people too much credit.
What a stupid and meaningless question to ask. "I really want someone to explain to me what makes this a good game." Why do you like the music you listen to? Why do you watch the movies you enjoy? Why do you enjoy the games you enjoy?
Do you realize you are not the only person in this world? (I realize that may have came as a shock to you, but bear with me.) If you don't like the game, it's perfectly NATURAL, not everything is for everyone, if it were, everyone would be bums and doctors at the same time. Get it?
There is nothing anyone can say that will make you say "OH THAT IS WHY THIS IS A GOOD GAME!!" and your a moron for asking. You're just trying to stir the pot and I'm the sucker fallin' for your childish games.
You never ask yourself why you like or do the things you do? You know what that means right? You're an unthinking animal; you're guided not by reason but by your feelings.
Everyone, everywhere should always ask themselves "why?" with everything they do. You should ask why to everyone you come into contact with.
Asking "why" is the only way you'll find truth and fact. If you don't ask why what do you know about yourself?
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
I'm an ex UO'er as well and I am loving W.A.R. because I am familiar with the tabletop to begin with. I have played numerous other games since UO and found myself wanting that old UO PvP and crafting etc but at the same time I find things to like about the game I am currently playing and have fun with my old friends and new ones- if you don't like it then don't play it but don't come here and tell everyone else about it, there are therapists for that and I recommend you see one right away because you sound like you need to get out(of the sandbox) more.
First off, I dont find it fair that some people brush off such a long list of experiences with 1-sentence posts. Better answer nothing that such answers.
I feel similar as the OP, though not so extreme. I enjoy WAR atm and I am sure it will provide me with fun for a couple of month, until I have seen it all and will hop on to the next big thing. Prolly DC Online. I too see WAR is too narrow in its approach and the critical points of the OP are valid ones. I still see enough fun for a while, I enjoyed doing the PQs. But how long? How often? WAR seems awfully narrowed towards war and indeed like some other MMO stripped bare of the other 90% gameplay. Wether WAR will grow to be more remains to be seen. I think only time will tell.
A lot of fun in WAR - more than in other MMO - will depend on how the player adapt it. WAR is for guild folks, people who plan to go into RVR together, its not for people who prefer not so much as organizing their hobby in monthly schedules and massive guild organizations.
I absolutely agree with OP. But about WAR I can say many good things for modern Theme Park style game. The main goal of such games is Relaxing and Fun gameplay. In similar way like WoW anyone can go and play without any special knowledge and still have great fun. For me such games are nothing serious but WAR combine the fun, simplify and relaxing very well. Such games are for masses, just do not expect such deep gameplay like you can expect from sandbox game.
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration ______\m/_____ LordOfDarkDesire
I absolutely agree with OP. But about WAR I can say many good things for modern Theme Park style game. The main goal of such games is Relaxing and Fun gameplay. In similar way like WoW anyone can go and play without any special knowledge and still have great fun. For me such games are nothing serious but WAR combine the fun, simplify and relaxing very well. Such games are for masses, just do not expect such deep gameplay like you can expect from sandbox game.
Ok, stop posting and wait 6 DAYS. The game isnt out and everyone is going off of Beta, which, in my experince from doing numerous Betas, the game is always improved and does change after its been released. Safe all your statements, thoughts, concerns, till after launch, then come back. I hate it when people want to post about Beta and flame it for no good reason. If you hate this game, then DONT PLAY IT. Plus, because its not WoW or Vanguard, or UO, or whatever, then thats a GOOD thing. For a game to survive, it needs to set itself apart from the rest.
Secondly, for the guy that posted a comment about the US Coast Guard, you really dont know anything. I server for 4 years, I am a war veteran. I servered during 9-11, I was on duty for 9-11 and I know alot of guys, that got shipped to Iraq to help do patrols around the Oil Platfroms and to setup proper waterway signs and guides to help with shipping to get the coutnry back up and going. Alot of these guys were reserves and not active duty people, which are assigned to defend our Coasts. I was also involved with a Terrorist capture on the Great Lakes. So if you EVER want to flame about the military, you better take it to that site and get ready to get your head blown off. And fromt hat comment, I can tell your a guy that takes Freedom for granted and lack the balls to ever stand up and help defend anything. I am a 8 year military vet, 4 years Army, 4 years US Coast Guard. I survived 2 boot camps, numerous alerts, and my life is written in the Library of Congress for my contributions to this country, What have you done??
You dont have to see how this is a good game for me. Just see how this game is not a good game for you and move on. The reason why there are so many mmo's out there is so that you pick the one that fits you the most. You don't like certain features of the game? Fine, you have your reasons. I love most of the features this game has to offer, I have my reasons. And I won't try to convince you on how cool I think the features are, but please respect people that enjoy the game.
No, you don't understand. I really want someone to explain to me what makes this a good game. I don't see it, but there are so many people who like it, there must be a reason, right? Maybe I give people too much credit.
What a stupid and meaningless question to ask. "I really want someone to explain to me what makes this a good game." Why do you like the music you listen to? Why do you watch the movies you enjoy? Why do you enjoy the games you enjoy?
Do you realize you are not the only person in this world? (I realize that may have came as a shock to you, but bear with me.) If you don't like the game, it's perfectly NATURAL, not everything is for everyone, if it were, everyone would be bums and doctors at the same time. Get it?
There is nothing anyone can say that will make you say "OH THAT IS WHY THIS IS A GOOD GAME!!" and your a moron for asking. You're just trying to stir the pot and I'm the sucker fallin' for your childish games.
You never ask yourself why you like or do the things you do? You know what that means right? You're an unthinking animal; you're guided not by reason but by your feelings.
Everyone, everywhere should always ask themselves "why?" with everything they do. You should ask why to everyone you come into contact with.
Asking "why" is the only way you'll find truth and fact. If you don't ask why what do you know about yourself?
OK as sandbox fan as you I can explain : I do not think its a great game, but just nice relaxing game. First you have to know that WAR is same game typelike WoW, but in the same time it very different, so do not name it WoW clone. WoW vs WAR are like Unreal vs Quake.
Here are different aspects I find great:
1. RvR:
a. In any situation you can take control and counter the situation. There are no situation where you have nothing to do.
b. Many different scenarious that are tied with the region and lore.
c. Many RvR zones where the only objectives are PvP.
d. PQ that involved both factions and become huge battles that involeve both PvE and PvP players
2. Fun PvE:
a. Its more to explore and lore than to kill and grind.
b. Great PQ if you like to grind and concure with other players. A bit in the style of old good UO champion spowns. Great to combine with Scenarios.
3. You can join scenario from everywhere so you do not have just to stay and wait to join.
4. You can levelup and gear both with PvE and PvP.
At all WAR is very addictive if you look just to spend some time and have fun. If you are looking for more deep and social sandbox MMO then WAR is not for you.
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration ______\m/_____ LordOfDarkDesire
I absolutely agree with OP. But about WAR I can say many good things for modern Theme Park style game. The main goal of such games is Relaxing and Fun gameplay. In similar way like WoW anyone can go and play without any special knowledge and still have great fun. For me such games are nothing serious but WAR combine the fun, simplify and relaxing very well. Such games are for masses, just do not expect such deep gameplay like you can expect from sandbox game.
This sums it up perfectly.
please, name a sandbox game on the market today with deep complexity.
Why does it seem so many people feel the need to say a game is bad just because it style is different from their tastes? A "Good" game isn't a game that does exactly what you hoped it would do; it is a game they does exactly what the game was trying to do with as few bugs as possible.
My opinion ( and it is nothing more than my opinion) is that this game isn't as immersive as I want an MMO to be. I like worlds that I can loose myself in and feel like I am part of. For this reason I will stick with LOTRO. But I am in the minority and I know it! And just because WAR doesn't suit my tastes doesn't, by any means, make it a bad game.
I have been playing the OB, and frankly WAR is a rather good game at what it is trying to do. The OB is more stable and has fewer bugs than almost every previous MMO has been at LAUNCH! This alone is enough reason to not say it is bad.
It is rather fun in short bursts to be able to just log on, kill some stuff without a lot of waiting around and log off. And that is exactly the demographic that they were targeting. Not everyone has 20+ hours a week to spend on a video game; heck most people don't.
Mythic has produced a very good game for the audience it was targeting. Just because you wanted something else, don't try and tell people that it is bad. Realize that you are in the minority and move on to a niche game. To the OP, I suggest you try Eve.
I don't understand. Why do you need people to tell you why a game is good or bad. Its subjective. It cannot be explained. It can only be felt.
People had pointed out features of WAR they love, you dismissed them, and come back asking for more "explanation". No that is no explanation seeking. That is pure trolling. The Mr good guy has politely told you that there is nothing to explain. In other word, he is telling you to bug off and shut up. If you like it play it. If you do not like it, go away. No you do not give people too much credit, you have yet to understand what is respect. We have given you too much credit in trying to talk to you.
Wow, someone is trying to have a proper discussion and gets told off for... discussing stuff on a forum. Stop trying to act like an e-thug. What the OP is on about is NOT trolling, you just fail to grasp what he means, and tbh I DO understand what he means. I'll try to explain it in a way that even you might understand it.
Lots of people have no trouble with being told what to do; Go here, drink Coca-cola, watch this, eat this, you gotta have a BMW, kill this, you gotta be 70, have S4 gear. They like the grind and threadmill because it's easy, doesn't take any effort. They 're just a big flock of consumers, "mindless cattle" could describe it. They might not even realize it and when told start shouting in anger and feined outrage, but the majority of people are just that; cattle, it's a biological/evolution thing.
When playing games these people are happy with being confined since that essentially means they're being told what to do, and how to do it. Game made goals, easily understandable goals and for the love of anything holy, lets not make it too complicated or needing effort and braincells. Easy does it, simple gameplay.
Some people are different, they want many options and if at all possible there should be some bad options in there as well, since that means that putting in effort gets rewarded. They don't want to be told where to go and they'll see a cage-like construction from miles away. It may be a golden cage but a cage nonetheless. These people want to make up their own minds, be able to explore and NOT follow the beaten to death path, either because it's the best way to do it or (even worse) because the game dictates them.
To them having choices means being able to grow as a character, and essentially "feel" to be in that make believe world. They want to have options, not directions. DAoC catered for that with HUGE landmasses, different specs where your decisions meant something (before respec stones). They want to travel around and get a feeling for the huge world, be able to roam freely and being challenged. Since then MMO's have watered down, lost risk and the option of making bad choices. Add to that the fact that these days everything is found on the net on quests, skills and all that. Again, people not wanting to put in thought but rather follow someone else's dumbed down cookie cutter ideas.
WAR just continues the "idiot proof gameplay" trend. It's very simple, very linear and very much a cage. THAT is the problem, it has nothing to do with the classes or game mechanics as such. It's the fact that, while this is an MMO, he has to room to make his own choices, not really.
There is only one MMO currently that caters for us type of players, and that's EVE-online. And even that one gets bogged down by the sheer amount of non-effort mindless PVE jokers.
I can only use 1 word to summary your long argument, STUPIDITY. No you are not wrong, you are correct, and you still do not see you confirmed what I am saying.
You like EVE online. Correct. You do not like the other typing of gaming. Correct. You do not have the right to dismiss the other games, idiot proof gameplay you said. Who is the idiot? Who has the right to call others idiot. May be I am calling you idiot, yes I am. You failed to respect other people's right to choose, to like what you do not like. You, sir, are a big idiot.
What do people like in WAR? They do, and some give you a run down on features they like. OK, you have your own list of features you do not like. Period, go play EVE. Writing a long discussion trying to humiliate or "idiotise" the others won't prove you are in anyway superior. In only prove you are intolerant, inconsiderate, and basically uneducated. You can wrong a long essay without grammatical mistakes, but you cannot write one showing you are educated. Knowing the ABCs but not knowing how to use the ABCs is the worst story of schooling.
There is only one MMO that caters to you type of players. There are other MMOs that cater to other players. None is superior, none is inferior. Different strokes for different folks and all folks are born equal. If you fail to understand this, no point talking to you any more.
Seriously guys, all these sandbox crying; what on earth are you sandboxers thinking?
What is so unique about a sandbox game, basically there is nothing in the game except the barebones. So everyone has to contribute to create the contents. Is it good? I do not know. I happen to hate some of the ex-sandbox games as the bad gamers drive away the good gamers and at the end of the day, its a pool of a-holes roaming the world trying to piss off anyone else still left in the game. There are people who confess, even on such boards, that they enjoy ruining the day of other players. I do not want my precious few hours of gaming a week spoilt b/c of these cybernetic bastards. I have enough encounters with RL bastardss at work. As for whoever up there saying sandbox games = deep play, show me the deep game playing. Ganging griefing is deep? Camping the spawn points or jump points is deep? What else is deep apart from the long passages you write.
How does a sandbox plays out? It depends on the final stabilised community, when those who lose heart left and the rest dig in for a long haul. Till then there is no sandbox gameplay. In other words, a game has to settle down before we can look at it from a sandbox view. As such true sandboxers are not going to comment on a game at beta, when the community has not yet registered the game. Those like the OP who spank everyone else with his elitist pretensious sandboxer stand is not really very true to sandbox standard. He is spanking a game before the final community settle down and work out the RvR fightings. In DAoC it took almost a year before the RvR take shape, where in some servers the Hib teams up with Alb, while on others the 3 fight each other and backstab. The true RvR fun kicks in after enough people hits max level and huge battles can be staged with enough from each side. How the hell can the OP know how RvR eventually will be, when the game has not even launch? He does not know, he is bullshitting.
No, I am not here to love WAR. I have been in CB and OB and frankly, I spent only 30 hours in so far, and not really doing much test (for some reasons). The game is OK, its not a sandbox... I do not have to repeat the conventional wisdom. I am here to sharply criticise these so called sandboxers. They nothing to do but moan and moan and try desperately to look brilliant by calling others idiot. Oh yeah EVE is so great that anyone who has $15 to subscribe to EVE earn the title of briiliancy, while anyone else who does not want to play EVE automatically got demoted into the ring of idiots. Such a simple broadbrush way of classifying everyone on earth, I wonder what the goes into brains of these few sandbox cryers on message boards.
Tolerance, understanding, appreciation, respect ... all these I cannot expect from the OP and the few so-called sandboxer posters. They have a long way to come to that. All I hope is that they go back to EVE or whatever else they like and stop moaning, not moaning on this board as I happen to like the environment here. Or maybe I should upgrade my resistence to idiot posters, and suddenly I learn to stop reading what they said. After all, they are saying nothing more than just "I am good, everyone else is stupid, repeat ...". Like a broken record.
Yes discussions are fine, and I got to learn and love a game from these boards, a game I do not notice till i come across a well written page on it here. But the way OP and the so call sandboxer goes, they do not contribute to reasoning to discussion. They are just moaning.
Last ditch attempt to make them understand: Eve is not a bad game. It's just not the game I want to play. As for sandbox games. I do not want to comment till I see one, and when I see a game, I do not care if its sandbox or not. I play if I like to play. PERIOD. And I owe you or nobody any explanation why I like this or not like that.
You guys are just burnt out on the genre, and the direction it has taken. All those old games are still around you know. If they are so great why does no one play them anymore?
I want a new sandbox really bad though, but until I get one I am not going to whine and waste my time trolling games. I am going to take what is available and take the parts of games that are fun to me and enjoy them. Otherwise why would I be gaming at all?
Why does it seem so many people feel the need to say a game is bad just because it style is different from their tastes? Because some people are simply self-important arm-chair experts; self-ordained authorities on anything they're interested in. They don't "share opinions", they "speak facts". Those who don't share their view don't merely disagree - they're "wrong". It's not just games where you'll see this. Look at Amazon.com's music review sections. How many times do you see comments by people who say "Anyone who's a true fan of this band will agree..." as though if you disagree with them, you're not a true fan. Who the hell are they to say? It's no different from what you see here with MMOs. It happens with Movies, books, computers, religions.. Anything where there's not a 100% consensus, you're going to find people who feel they're right and anyone who disagrees is wrong/stupid/ignorant/clueless/confused, etc. I think there's a group of people who truly don't understand the difference between 'opinion' and 'fact' and use the words interchangeably. Bottom line... Some people simply need to get over themselves and realize no one is obligated to their opinion.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I loved the game so much I felt the urge to come here and speak, 100 hours of gameplay ! Man it feels good to be offline to tell all of you how cool this game is ! PVP is awsome! It is just like WOW! O'wait this is not WOW? OOP's,thought this was WOW. Well I need to get too playing not bs'Z on the forum chat! O one more thing play the f' game stop posting(they will never believe you if where here)!
Comments
I was in FoFF before BoB was really big. Corps like us back in the day made short work of MC.
I am still phoned by BoB to bring my 3 accounts online for Real Life Cash!
For those who like UO and EQ so much, why not try out Vanguard ? Very nice game tbh, it still needs work, that goes for aoc, wow etc to.
I dont know if im going to like WAR, but it seems to be pretty fun, the only concern i have about war is what will make me stay in the game for more that 2-3 months ? Sure RvR and pvp are fun as hell, but that wont last so long.
Anyway, i pay 500SEK for the game, and i think i gonna play it for 2 months more i hope, so that are well invested money since most of the SP games out there have the same price and gives me 5-8 hour playtime
At least we can all agree its better than any of them Item Mall games from Asia
I was in FoFF before BoB was really big. Corps like us back in the day made short work of MC.
I am still phoned by BoB to bring my 3 accounts online for Real Life Cash!
Which is essentially as futile. Real life cash doesn't get you anywhere, even if capitalism wants you to think so. You will get richer, or poorer, and eventually die, leaving everything you've ever done or planned as crumbling memories of people that will also die.
Now isn't this a wonderful perspective...
Meridion
actually UO style games are cheaper to produce. They dont ahve to pay script writers, level editors, etc to buidl quests, encounters & the like. They plop down some mechanics, some skills, give the players some items to play with and let them run free. Sandbox games the truest kind that is like UO or SL are incredibly cheap to produce.
The hybrid versions like SWG pre NGU how ever are expensive, unreliable, and in constant need of balancing & maintance. This is why SWG failed it tried to be everything and a bag of chips but couldn't pull itself together and couldn't target a big enough audience. The Star Wars brand alone should of been enough to pull in millions but it didn't because the game was half a bag of chip crumbs when it actually worked properly. Lucas & SOE made it worse by trying to retarget the game long after launch despite having a semi healthy community that wold of grown if they'd given their game a bit more love.
True Sandbox games are overrated in my opinion. They have little to offer as far as content and everything relys on the players well you know what? ALot of people on the net are asswipes and they seem to shine in games where players rule the planet. Its why I won't go anywhere near true sandbox games, if you like sandbox games you really should consider that looking at non sandbox games and bitching a storm does no good. Infact it makes you look like an ass (no i dont think your an ass you atleast tried it and made your decision so whatever floats your boat).
You either accept a game is designed around a specific model or don't. Bitching / calling the game crap gets you no where. I personally enjoy structured games, I dont have a ton of time on my hands and structure games give me a feeling of accomplishment. Open ended games often leave me feeling behind everyone else if not completely out of the loop...hell they did even when I did have more time.
Oh, just use the first two words in the post title, leave off the rest.
'Nuff said.
Nihilism (from the Latin nihil, nothing)is a philosophical position which argues that existence is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value. Nihilists generally assert some or all of the following:
* Objective morality does not exist.
* No action is logically preferable to any other in regard to the moral value of one action over another.
* In the absence of objective morality, existence has no intrinsic higher meaning or goal.
* There is no reasonable proof or argument for the existence of a higher ruler or creator.
* Even if a higher ruler or creator exists, humanity has no moral obligation to worship them.
The term nihilism is sometimes used synonymously with anomie to denote a general mood of despair at the pointlessness of existence.[1]
I stopped reading here:
Trouble is, there isn't any. Despite having spent many hours in the Tiers 1 and 2 open RvR areas, I have seen a grand total of 2 people and have effectively killed exactly one.
Because, you know, the game has not been released yet. So, you know, there may be an issue with finding victums..
I was in FoFF before BoB was really big. Corps like us back in the day made short work of MC.
I am still phoned by BoB to bring my 3 accounts online for Real Life Cash!
Which is essentially as futile. Real life cash doesn't get you anywhere, even if capitalism wants you to think so. You will get richer, or poorer, and eventually die, leaving everything you've ever done or planned as crumbling memories of people that will also die.
Now isn't this a wonderful perspective...
Meridion
No, you don't understand. I really want someone to explain to me what makes this a good game. I don't see it, but there are so many people who like it, there must be a reason, right? Maybe I give people too much credit.
What a stupid and meaningless question to ask. "I really want someone to explain to me what makes this a good game." Why do you like the music you listen to? Why do you watch the movies you enjoy? Why do you enjoy the games you enjoy?
Do you realize you are not the only person in this world? (I realize that may have came as a shock to you, but bear with me.) If you don't like the game, it's perfectly NATURAL, not everything is for everyone, if it were, everyone would be bums and doctors at the same time. Get it?
There is nothing anyone can say that will make you say "OH THAT IS WHY THIS IS A GOOD GAME!!" and your a moron for asking. You're just trying to stir the pot and I'm the sucker fallin' for your childish games.
You never ask yourself why you like or do the things you do? You know what that means right? You're an unthinking animal; you're guided not by reason but by your feelings.
Everyone, everywhere should always ask themselves "why?" with everything they do. You should ask why to everyone you come into contact with.
Asking "why" is the only way you'll find truth and fact. If you don't ask why what do you know about yourself?
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
I'm an ex UO'er as well and I am loving W.A.R. because I am familiar with the tabletop to begin with. I have played numerous other games since UO and found myself wanting that old UO PvP and crafting etc but at the same time I find things to like about the game I am currently playing and have fun with my old friends and new ones- if you don't like it then don't play it but don't come here and tell everyone else about it, there are therapists for that and I recommend you see one right away because you sound like you need to get out(of the sandbox) more.
First off, I dont find it fair that some people brush off such a long list of experiences with 1-sentence posts. Better answer nothing that such answers.
I feel similar as the OP, though not so extreme. I enjoy WAR atm and I am sure it will provide me with fun for a couple of month, until I have seen it all and will hop on to the next big thing. Prolly DC Online. I too see WAR is too narrow in its approach and the critical points of the OP are valid ones. I still see enough fun for a while, I enjoyed doing the PQs. But how long? How often? WAR seems awfully narrowed towards war and indeed like some other MMO stripped bare of the other 90% gameplay. Wether WAR will grow to be more remains to be seen. I think only time will tell.
A lot of fun in WAR - more than in other MMO - will depend on how the player adapt it. WAR is for guild folks, people who plan to go into RVR together, its not for people who prefer not so much as organizing their hobby in monthly schedules and massive guild organizations.
I absolutely agree with OP. But about WAR I can say many good things for modern Theme Park style game. The main goal of such games is Relaxing and Fun gameplay. In similar way like WoW anyone can go and play without any special knowledge and still have great fun. For me such games are nothing serious but WAR combine the fun, simplify and relaxing very well. Such games are for masses, just do not expect such deep gameplay like you can expect from sandbox game.
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration
______\m/_____
LordOfDarkDesire
This sums it up perfectly.
Ok, stop posting and wait 6 DAYS. The game isnt out and everyone is going off of Beta, which, in my experince from doing numerous Betas, the game is always improved and does change after its been released. Safe all your statements, thoughts, concerns, till after launch, then come back. I hate it when people want to post about Beta and flame it for no good reason. If you hate this game, then DONT PLAY IT. Plus, because its not WoW or Vanguard, or UO, or whatever, then thats a GOOD thing. For a game to survive, it needs to set itself apart from the rest.
Secondly, for the guy that posted a comment about the US Coast Guard, you really dont know anything. I server for 4 years, I am a war veteran. I servered during 9-11, I was on duty for 9-11 and I know alot of guys, that got shipped to Iraq to help do patrols around the Oil Platfroms and to setup proper waterway signs and guides to help with shipping to get the coutnry back up and going. Alot of these guys were reserves and not active duty people, which are assigned to defend our Coasts. I was also involved with a Terrorist capture on the Great Lakes. So if you EVER want to flame about the military, you better take it to that site and get ready to get your head blown off. And fromt hat comment, I can tell your a guy that takes Freedom for granted and lack the balls to ever stand up and help defend anything. I am a 8 year military vet, 4 years Army, 4 years US Coast Guard. I survived 2 boot camps, numerous alerts, and my life is written in the Library of Congress for my contributions to this country, What have you done??
No, you don't understand. I really want someone to explain to me what makes this a good game. I don't see it, but there are so many people who like it, there must be a reason, right? Maybe I give people too much credit.
What a stupid and meaningless question to ask. "I really want someone to explain to me what makes this a good game." Why do you like the music you listen to? Why do you watch the movies you enjoy? Why do you enjoy the games you enjoy?
Do you realize you are not the only person in this world? (I realize that may have came as a shock to you, but bear with me.) If you don't like the game, it's perfectly NATURAL, not everything is for everyone, if it were, everyone would be bums and doctors at the same time. Get it?
There is nothing anyone can say that will make you say "OH THAT IS WHY THIS IS A GOOD GAME!!" and your a moron for asking. You're just trying to stir the pot and I'm the sucker fallin' for your childish games.
You never ask yourself why you like or do the things you do? You know what that means right? You're an unthinking animal; you're guided not by reason but by your feelings.
Everyone, everywhere should always ask themselves "why?" with everything they do. You should ask why to everyone you come into contact with.
Asking "why" is the only way you'll find truth and fact. If you don't ask why what do you know about yourself?
OK as sandbox fan as you I can explain : I do not think its a great game, but just nice relaxing game. First you have to know that WAR is same game typelike WoW, but in the same time it very different, so do not name it WoW clone. WoW vs WAR are like Unreal vs Quake.
Here are different aspects I find great:
1. RvR:
a. In any situation you can take control and counter the situation. There are no situation where you have nothing to do.
b. Many different scenarious that are tied with the region and lore.
c. Many RvR zones where the only objectives are PvP.
d. PQ that involved both factions and become huge battles that involeve both PvE and PvP players
2. Fun PvE:
a. Its more to explore and lore than to kill and grind.
b. Great PQ if you like to grind and concure with other players. A bit in the style of old good UO champion spowns. Great to combine with Scenarios.
3. You can join scenario from everywhere so you do not have just to stay and wait to join.
4. You can levelup and gear both with PvE and PvP.
At all WAR is very addictive if you look just to spend some time and have fun. If you are looking for more deep and social sandbox MMO then WAR is not for you.
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration
______\m/_____
LordOfDarkDesire
Is anyone else sick of hearing every thread starting with.."i started playing mmo's way back with UO". Hey if UO is so good go back and play it.
This sums it up perfectly.
please, name a sandbox game on the market today with deep complexity.
Why does it seem so many people feel the need to say a game is bad just because it style is different from their tastes? A "Good" game isn't a game that does exactly what you hoped it would do; it is a game they does exactly what the game was trying to do with as few bugs as possible.
My opinion ( and it is nothing more than my opinion) is that this game isn't as immersive as I want an MMO to be. I like worlds that I can loose myself in and feel like I am part of. For this reason I will stick with LOTRO. But I am in the minority and I know it! And just because WAR doesn't suit my tastes doesn't, by any means, make it a bad game.
I have been playing the OB, and frankly WAR is a rather good game at what it is trying to do. The OB is more stable and has fewer bugs than almost every previous MMO has been at LAUNCH! This alone is enough reason to not say it is bad.
It is rather fun in short bursts to be able to just log on, kill some stuff without a lot of waiting around and log off. And that is exactly the demographic that they were targeting. Not everyone has 20+ hours a week to spend on a video game; heck most people don't.
Mythic has produced a very good game for the audience it was targeting. Just because you wanted something else, don't try and tell people that it is bad. Realize that you are in the minority and move on to a niche game. To the OP, I suggest you try Eve.
Wow, someone is trying to have a proper discussion and gets told off for... discussing stuff on a forum. Stop trying to act like an e-thug. What the OP is on about is NOT trolling, you just fail to grasp what he means, and tbh I DO understand what he means. I'll try to explain it in a way that even you might understand it.
Lots of people have no trouble with being told what to do; Go here, drink Coca-cola, watch this, eat this, you gotta have a BMW, kill this, you gotta be 70, have S4 gear. They like the grind and threadmill because it's easy, doesn't take any effort. They 're just a big flock of consumers, "mindless cattle" could describe it. They might not even realize it and when told start shouting in anger and feined outrage, but the majority of people are just that; cattle, it's a biological/evolution thing.
When playing games these people are happy with being confined since that essentially means they're being told what to do, and how to do it. Game made goals, easily understandable goals and for the love of anything holy, lets not make it too complicated or needing effort and braincells. Easy does it, simple gameplay.
Some people are different, they want many options and if at all possible there should be some bad options in there as well, since that means that putting in effort gets rewarded. They don't want to be told where to go and they'll see a cage-like construction from miles away. It may be a golden cage but a cage nonetheless. These people want to make up their own minds, be able to explore and NOT follow the beaten to death path, either because it's the best way to do it or (even worse) because the game dictates them.
To them having choices means being able to grow as a character, and essentially "feel" to be in that make believe world. They want to have options, not directions. DAoC catered for that with HUGE landmasses, different specs where your decisions meant something (before respec stones). They want to travel around and get a feeling for the huge world, be able to roam freely and being challenged. Since then MMO's have watered down, lost risk and the option of making bad choices. Add to that the fact that these days everything is found on the net on quests, skills and all that. Again, people not wanting to put in thought but rather follow someone else's dumbed down cookie cutter ideas.
WAR just continues the "idiot proof gameplay" trend. It's very simple, very linear and very much a cage. THAT is the problem, it has nothing to do with the classes or game mechanics as such. It's the fact that, while this is an MMO, he has to room to make his own choices, not really.
There is only one MMO currently that caters for us type of players, and that's EVE-online. And even that one gets bogged down by the sheer amount of non-effort mindless PVE jokers.
I can only use 1 word to summary your long argument, STUPIDITY. No you are not wrong, you are correct, and you still do not see you confirmed what I am saying.
You like EVE online. Correct. You do not like the other typing of gaming. Correct. You do not have the right to dismiss the other games, idiot proof gameplay you said. Who is the idiot? Who has the right to call others idiot. May be I am calling you idiot, yes I am. You failed to respect other people's right to choose, to like what you do not like. You, sir, are a big idiot.
What do people like in WAR? They do, and some give you a run down on features they like. OK, you have your own list of features you do not like. Period, go play EVE. Writing a long discussion trying to humiliate or "idiotise" the others won't prove you are in anyway superior. In only prove you are intolerant, inconsiderate, and basically uneducated. You can wrong a long essay without grammatical mistakes, but you cannot write one showing you are educated. Knowing the ABCs but not knowing how to use the ABCs is the worst story of schooling.
There is only one MMO that caters to you type of players. There are other MMOs that cater to other players. None is superior, none is inferior. Different strokes for different folks and all folks are born equal. If you fail to understand this, no point talking to you any more.
Seriously guys, all these sandbox crying; what on earth are you sandboxers thinking?
What is so unique about a sandbox game, basically there is nothing in the game except the barebones. So everyone has to contribute to create the contents. Is it good? I do not know. I happen to hate some of the ex-sandbox games as the bad gamers drive away the good gamers and at the end of the day, its a pool of a-holes roaming the world trying to piss off anyone else still left in the game. There are people who confess, even on such boards, that they enjoy ruining the day of other players. I do not want my precious few hours of gaming a week spoilt b/c of these cybernetic bastards. I have enough encounters with RL bastardss at work. As for whoever up there saying sandbox games = deep play, show me the deep game playing. Ganging griefing is deep? Camping the spawn points or jump points is deep? What else is deep apart from the long passages you write.
How does a sandbox plays out? It depends on the final stabilised community, when those who lose heart left and the rest dig in for a long haul. Till then there is no sandbox gameplay. In other words, a game has to settle down before we can look at it from a sandbox view. As such true sandboxers are not going to comment on a game at beta, when the community has not yet registered the game. Those like the OP who spank everyone else with his elitist pretensious sandboxer stand is not really very true to sandbox standard. He is spanking a game before the final community settle down and work out the RvR fightings. In DAoC it took almost a year before the RvR take shape, where in some servers the Hib teams up with Alb, while on others the 3 fight each other and backstab. The true RvR fun kicks in after enough people hits max level and huge battles can be staged with enough from each side. How the hell can the OP know how RvR eventually will be, when the game has not even launch? He does not know, he is bullshitting.
No, I am not here to love WAR. I have been in CB and OB and frankly, I spent only 30 hours in so far, and not really doing much test (for some reasons). The game is OK, its not a sandbox... I do not have to repeat the conventional wisdom. I am here to sharply criticise these so called sandboxers. They nothing to do but moan and moan and try desperately to look brilliant by calling others idiot. Oh yeah EVE is so great that anyone who has $15 to subscribe to EVE earn the title of briiliancy, while anyone else who does not want to play EVE automatically got demoted into the ring of idiots. Such a simple broadbrush way of classifying everyone on earth, I wonder what the goes into brains of these few sandbox cryers on message boards.
Tolerance, understanding, appreciation, respect ... all these I cannot expect from the OP and the few so-called sandboxer posters. They have a long way to come to that. All I hope is that they go back to EVE or whatever else they like and stop moaning, not moaning on this board as I happen to like the environment here. Or maybe I should upgrade my resistence to idiot posters, and suddenly I learn to stop reading what they said. After all, they are saying nothing more than just "I am good, everyone else is stupid, repeat ...". Like a broken record.
Yes discussions are fine, and I got to learn and love a game from these boards, a game I do not notice till i come across a well written page on it here. But the way OP and the so call sandboxer goes, they do not contribute to reasoning to discussion. They are just moaning.
Last ditch attempt to make them understand: Eve is not a bad game. It's just not the game I want to play. As for sandbox games. I do not want to comment till I see one, and when I see a game, I do not care if its sandbox or not. I play if I like to play. PERIOD. And I owe you or nobody any explanation why I like this or not like that.
You guys are just burnt out on the genre, and the direction it has taken. All those old games are still around you know. If they are so great why does no one play them anymore?
I want a new sandbox really bad though, but until I get one I am not going to whine and waste my time trolling games. I am going to take what is available and take the parts of games that are fun to me and enjoy them. Otherwise why would I be gaming at all?
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I loved the game so much I felt the urge to come here and speak, 100 hours of gameplay ! Man it feels good to be offline to tell all of you how cool this game is ! PVP is awsome! It is just like WOW! O'wait this is not WOW? OOP's,thought this was WOW. Well I need to get too playing not bs'Z on the forum chat! O one more thing play the f' game stop posting(they will never believe you if where here)!