I agree that large numbers of people camping a boss sucks. Maybe the difficulty of the boss could be linked to the number of groups/people in the dungeon ? That way instead of lots of people waiting their turn, they'd be needed to defeat the stronger boss. City of Heroes has giant monsters that need many teams to defeat, not just one. Nobody camps those boss's.
Someone mentioned earlier that WAr had open dungeons but instanced boss battles. This I like. Running through a crowded dungeon was never really that bad to me, even though that is half the fun. But, standing in line for a boss fight always irritated me. Having an instanced boss fight works wonders for this problem.
Now that I think of it Sword of the New world did the same thing and it works quite fine.
Kills immersion. Defeats purpose of a MASSIVELY multiplayer online rpg. Any feature that negates the massive part of an mmorpg is a strike against the game for me.
I'd have to disagree, walking into a dungeon with your party to find it camped by 10 other groups all waiting for mobs to spawn kills immersion.....
What's wrong with instanced dungeons? Isn't it obvious?
Because I don't want to have to wait outside a dungeon to ruin your fun. You're limiting my FREEDOM! You're paying a subscription fee to provide ME with content. Why would you want to take that away from me? Why are you so selfish??
Instancing is for carebears and lame-o casual players who want easy mode. They aren't manly enough for REAL PvP. They don't have the dedication to be a PRO and play 12+ hours a day like me. They're just whiney babies who want instant gratification, hand holding, and story-telling. Real gamers know stories are for childrens' books!
Besides, if I'm not playing with over a thousand people on my screen, simultaneously, at all times, then it's not an MMO. Duh. Even retarted folks know that!
And yes, I'm totally being facetious.
Sadly that's exactly how many of the posters on MMORPG.com seem to feel. They can't have fun unless they steal their fun from other players. Vampires that expect the community to continue feeding their empty hunger to ruin someone elses good time.
They are easier - 5 -6 people clearing a dungeon by themselves is not easier than your whole guild going through and clearing the dungeon and then helping out on the last boss.
Immersion - What story ever had the party of adventurers get to the end bad guy and then they waited in line to kill him while the other 3 groups did it. or another group pk's them in the last fight?
Its supposed to be a massive multiplayer game - so anything where the entire server population can't access it at once sucks? Well there are multiple servers in most games so i guess they aren't MMO's since it divides up the game population. Oh and if 1000 people were all in the same dungeon I guess you would be ok with lag?
You can't pk someone while in mid fight of a boss - well this only applies to pvp servers which not everyone plays. On a pve server this argument is moot. Second this is ganking. You want to gank a group in midfight? doesn't this destroy the whole "pk'ers aren't all immature asses " argument? So yea the fight is now harder because you have to watch your backs but then it can also be eaiser b/c you can just gank the group right before they kill the boss than steal kill him (assuming no encounter locks).
So to sum up instanced dungeons are actually a harder pve encounter. If a dungeon is non-instanced it is only hard if it is on a pvp server. Instanced dungeons are more immersive since they are more like a traditional story where one group of adventurers kills a boss. Instancing also lets you add in story elemements and control the encounter more than a non-instanced dungeon. Instanced dungeons thwart griefers which is a big reason why so many people like them.
Instanced dungeons do take away the fact that there are thosuands of people in your game world and you are all alone in the dungeon. however you still have your party/raid group so it is still a multi-player game. It doesn't ruin immersion, as that was covered above. It ruins realism of the game world, perhaps the only partiaslly legitimate arguement, but for most peopel the benefits out weigh the negatives on this one.
Final summation:The people who like non-instanced dungeons and hate instanced dungeons have their own agenda, namely griefing. They want to gank people and control a dungeon so they can get the uber loot and keep people from having the same stuff. They are a small minority so the genre will go more and more towards instanced dungeons.
Let me some up some arguments here. Instances are bad because: They are easier - 5 -6 people clearing a dungeon by themselves is not easier than your whole guild going through and clearing the dungeon and then helping out on the last boss. Immersion - What story ever had the party of adventurers get to the end bad guy and then they waited in line to kill him while the other 3 groups did it. or another group pk's them in the last fight? Its supposed to be a massive multiplayer game - so anything where the entire server population can't access it at once sucks? Well there are multiple servers in most games so i guess they aren't MMO's since it divides up the game population. Oh and if 1000 people were all in the same dungeon I guess you would be ok with lag? You can't pk someone while in mid fight of a boss - well this only applies to pvp servers which not everyone plays. On a pve server this argument is moot. Second this is ganking. You want to gank a group in midfight? doesn't this destroy the whole "pk'ers aren't all immature asses " argument? So yea the fight is now harder because you have to watch your backs but then it can also be eaiser b/c you can just gank the group right before they kill the boss than steal kill him (assuming no encounter locks).
So to sum up instanced dungeons are actually a harder pve encounter. If a dungeon is non-instanced it is only hard if it is on a pvp server. Instanced dungeons are more immersive since they are more like a traditional story where one group of adventurers kills a boss. Instancing also lets you add in story elemements and control the encounter more than a non-instanced dungeon. Instanced dungeons thwart griefers which is a big reason why so many people like them. Instanced dungeons do take away the fact that there are thosuands of people in your game world and you are all alone in the dungeon. however you still have your party/raid group so it is still a multi-player game. It doesn't ruin immersion, as that was covered above. It ruins realism of the game world, perhaps the only partiaslly legitimate arguement, but for most peopel the benefits out weigh the negatives on this one.
Final summation:The people who like non-instanced dungeons and hate instanced dungeons have their own agenda, namely griefing. They want to gank people and control a dungeon so they can get the uber loot and keep people from having the same stuff. They are a small minority so the genre will go more and more towards instanced dungeons.
I feel the same way for the most part. Unless the devs can find a way to stop camping and provide mobs for everyone in non instanced dungeons then it's to much annoyance not having them. It gives people with a lot of time to much power to control dungeons and prevent others from getting loot. Most casual players would not be interested in this as they likely work or do something else that takes up a lot of their time and provides pleantly of frustration and they want to sit down and enjoy a not so frustrating gaming experience.
How did this thread turn into a PVP-centric discussion?
The argument of "instanced" vs "non-instanced" dungeons is one of immersion, a question of "do other people exist in the world I"m in".
While waiting in line to kill a respawning boss mob may not be realistic, just the fact that other people might be somewhere in the dungeon with you is very cool and immersive. Anyone who remembers Lower Guk in Everquest will know what I'm talking about. Indeed, my character was saved once or twice by a higher level party in Lower Guk. When all seemed helpless and I was lost and seemingly doomed, another party was there.
And the inadvertent (hopefull) "trains" of aggroed monsters made everyone keep on their toes. Non-instanced dungeons are a thing to behold.
I think what dev's are learning is that for every perceived annoyance they eliminate, they also risk removing significant fun that was tied to that annoyance.
How did this thread turn into a PVP-centric discussion? The argument of "instanced" vs "non-instanced" dungeons is one of immersion, a question of "do other people exist in the world I"m in". While waiting in line to kill a respawning boss mob may not be realistic, just the fact that other people might be somewhere in the dungeon with you is very cool and immersive. Anyone who remembers Lower Guk in Everquest will know what I'm talking about. Indeed, my character was saved once or twice by a higher level party in Lower Guk. When all seemed helpless and I was lost and seemingly doomed, another party was there. And the inadvertent (hopefull) "trains" of aggroed monsters made everyone keep on their toes. Non-instanced dungeons are a thing to behold. I think what dev's are learning is that for every perceived annoyance they eliminate, they also risk removing significant fun that was tied to that annoyance.
I believe immersion is overrated. I don't like instances in the outside world, but in dungeons it makes a lot of sense for the reasons stated by other people on the board. I had a lot of fun playing EQ, but it was a huge time hog and people with a lot of time generally controlled the dungeons and camp spot. They could exclude you from their group if they wished to do so. This means the players had control which isn't such a good thing in an instance like this IMO. Instanced dungeons allows you to kill a certain mob or complete quests without having to work your time schedule around someone else or kiss their butt to help you out.
They completely kill the idea of an MMO. An MMO should be in a persistant world, where you constantly have to watch your back. Instances of ANY kind COMPLETELY ruins the idea. They result in the *game world being empty. They're *carebear, and you don't have to watch your back - and you don't have to *compete for boss mobs and whatnot.
They're just generally BORING!
When I enter a boss room, I like to see a few parties of other players chatting about who's gonna kill the next spawn - And a few people looking all shifty-like. Then when the boss spawns - 50% of the time I expect the whole room to just start beating the crap out of eachother.
Today, all bosses are instanced - No competition - No fun - No nothing. Darkfall will change that, and it's just around the corner.
_________ Currently playing: Black Desert Korea (Waiting for EU)
Always hating on instances in MMOs! Open worlds, open PvP, territory control and housing please. More persistence, more fun.
They completely kill the idea of an MMO. An MMO should be in a persistant world, where you constantly have to watch your back. Instances of ANY kind COMPLETELY ruins the idea. They result in the *game world being empty. They're *carebear, and you don't have to watch your back - and you don't have to *compete for boss mobs and whatnot. They're just generally BORING!
When I enter a boss room, I like to see a few parties of other players chatting about who's gonna kill the next spawn - And a few people looking all shifty-like. Then when the boss spawns - 50% of the time I expect the whole room to just start beating the crap out of eachother. Today, all bosses are instanced - No competition - No fun - No nothing. Darkfall will change that, and it's just around the corner.
Thats exactly it. You just said it's what you like. Unfortunately you are a minority so you will have to wait for a niche game to fullfill your needs. You can't force things upon other people just like you wish to do to them in game. That is a dictatorship for the most part.
Originally posted by imbant This baffles me...because it is soooo immersive to be going out to kill the Big Bad Dragon and you tell your friend..."hey we are killin the BBD"....."Hey so are we!"....."Yea my other friends group just killed him 5min ago for the 2nd time today"......but how is he here in front of us if he has already been killed today? twice....
Um, no....that's what happens when you instance. The way to avoid the immersion breaker of multiple people killing same boss in the same time frame is to not instance it, and make spawn times long.
In the game i play once you get to the end and kill the main boss you get locked out for as little as 18 hours and as much as 2 weeks for some of the raid dungeons.
They completely kill the idea of an MMO. An MMO should be in a persistant world, where you constantly have to watch your back. Instances of ANY kind COMPLETELY ruins the idea. They result in the *game world being empty. They're *carebear, and you don't have to watch your back - and you don't have to *compete for boss mobs and whatnot. They're just generally BORING!
When I enter a boss room, I like to see a few parties of other players chatting about who's gonna kill the next spawn - And a few people looking all shifty-like. Then when the boss spawns - 50% of the time I expect the whole room to just start beating the crap out of eachother. Today, all bosses are instanced - No competition - No fun - No nothing. Darkfall will change that, and it's just around the corner.
Thats exactly it. You just said it's what you like. Unfortunately you are a minority so you will have to wait for a niche game to fullfill your needs. You can't force things upon other people just like you wish to do to them in game. That is a dictatorship for the most part.
You're exactly right, also! :P
And I'm not forcing things on the mass of carebears either, I was just stating my oppinion loud-and-proud.
If I wanted to play a game of instanced CTF, I'd play Unreal Tournament, not an MMO.
_________ Currently playing: Black Desert Korea (Waiting for EU)
Always hating on instances in MMOs! Open worlds, open PvP, territory control and housing please. More persistence, more fun.
Private instancing does not negate the "massively multiplayer" aspect of MMOs. It merely limits your ability to interact (or interfere) with others, on THEIR terms. It's akin to the difference between rape and consensual sex. Frankly, it's no different than having an /ignore command for the chat interface.
The only "immersion" it "kills" is your opportunity to be an unwelcome jackass.
Private instancing does not negate the "massively multiplayer" aspect of MMOs. It merely limits your ability to interact (or interfere) with others, on THEIR terms. It's akin to the difference between rape and consensual sex. Frankly, it's no different than having an /ignore command for the chat interface.
The only "immersion" it "kills" is your opportunity to be an unwelcome jackass.
You don't enjoy competing for bosses then? You like the idea of the whole server having easy access to bosses, and the fact you get 'rewarded' with bosses for sitting through 2hours of boring trash mob killing?
Nah, bring back PKing on bosses. (I understand why this isn't for the mardy, or the faint of heart though. This is just my opinion and I'm not gonna post in this thread now. I'm done. )
_________ Currently playing: Black Desert Korea (Waiting for EU)
Always hating on instances in MMOs! Open worlds, open PvP, territory control and housing please. More persistence, more fun.
Eh dungeons are a waste of time, they are kind of boring in my opinion, seeing as how they are always the same. PKing people doesn't make the dungeon more fun either.
Really why would those trolls keep occupying the same cave over and over, it clearly is a poor defensive choice as they keep getting slaughtered.
Why can't trolls and such build bases that get destroyed or take other bases, kind of like a RTS, that way there is a little more reason to do these outdoor dungeons, as winning does something and it isn't just a ploy to kill a bose to get some loot so that item whores will be appeased.
Don't you worry little buddy. You're dealing with a man of honor. However, honor requires a higher percentage of profit
Originally posted by Adam1902 You don't enjoy competing for bosses then? You like the idea of the whole server having easy access to bosses, and the fact you get 'rewarded' with bosses for sitting through 2hours of boring trash mob killing? Nah, bring back PKing on bosses. (I understand why this isn't for the mardy, or the faint of heart though. This is just my opinion and I'm not gonna post in this thread now. I'm done. )
Do you enjoy competing with players who have absolutely no intention or desire to compete with you? You like the idea of having easy access to a whole server of players to harass, and the fact you get 'rewarded' for intruding on their opportunity to have fun?
You internet tough guys are pretty amusing. Given a choice to fight a den of lions or a petting zoo of kittens, you go for the kittens every time. Faint of heart indeed.
Pvp does not make you manly. Please you want manly combat take either of my old jobs in the army or working in a prison. I don't mind instanced dungeons in todays mmos. Because it seems to me that since DAoC the communties have become wrecthed. At least with instances I can get my group and do the dungeon and be done with it. There would be no need for instances if we could bring back DAoC like communtiies. Unfortunately I don't see that as a viable option considering all the casaulties of puberty flooding mmos today.
What's wrong with instanced dungeons? Isn't it obvious?
Because I don't want to have to wait outside a dungeon to ruin your fun. You're limiting my FREEDOM! You're paying a subscription fee to provide ME with content. Why would you want to take that away from me? Why are you so selfish??
Instancing is for carebears and lame-o casual players who want easy mode. They aren't manly enough for REAL PvP. They don't have the dedication to be a PRO and play 12+ hours a day like me. They're just whiney babies who want instant gratification, hand holding, and story-telling. Real gamers know stories are for childrens' books!
Besides, if I'm not playing with over a thousand people on my screen, simultaneously, at all times, then it's not an MMO. Duh. Even retarted folks know that!
And yes, I'm totally being facetious.
Giving it away at the end spoiled the effect.
Because this is pretty much the REAL reason for hating instances.
It steals from the psychoMMO player a chance to grief them some carebears!
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Eh dungeons are a waste of time, they are kind of boring in my opinion, seeing as how they are always the same. PKing people doesn't make the dungeon more fun either. Really why would those trolls keep occupying the same cave over and over, it clearly is a poor defensive choice as they keep getting slaughtered.
Why can't trolls and such build bases that get destroyed or take other bases, kind of like a RTS, that way there is a little more reason to do these outdoor dungeons, as winning does something and it isn't just a ploy to kill a bose to get some loot so that item whores will be appeased.
Right on I'd love to see MMOs pursue this
{edit} however, I'd take a PvP dungeon over a PVE one. That way at least some dynamic events can happen and players can fight for control of the instance (if it is setup right)
the only problem i have with them is how linear and scripted they are. it would be nice to go into a dungeon and not have someone who can predict exactly what the mobs will do. learning(read dying) is fun and that is ruined when everyone knows exactly what is going to happen.
aside from that i have no problem with them...i think its a great idea. equally if the dungeon is about 4+ hours long and huge i can see why an open dungeon would work too (like in Vanguard)
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds -Solid non level based game -Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
Eh dungeons are a waste of time, they are kind of boring in my opinion, seeing as how they are always the same. PKing people doesn't make the dungeon more fun either. Really why would those trolls keep occupying the same cave over and over, it clearly is a poor defensive choice as they keep getting slaughtered.
Why can't trolls and such build bases that get destroyed or take other bases, kind of like a RTS, that way there is a little more reason to do these outdoor dungeons, as winning does something and it isn't just a ploy to kill a bose to get some loot so that item whores will be appeased.
Right on I'd love to see MMOs pursue this
I think within the worlds that we have seen these monsters the idea is that they are primitive and not very organized.
This would preclude any actually industry and it would make sense that they would take up residence in prebuilt structures.
I think one of the reasons that people like dungeons (myself included) is that it gives the player the possibility of an interesting settings.
It's not just hallways with doors. It's stairs, architectural elements, sculputures, traps to get buy and the mysteries that lie within,
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I can think of several reasons why instanced dungeons are a good thing, but few, if any, why they are bad. Someone care to explain?
I tend to agree with you to a point, instanced dungeons are awesome but instanced zones are a bore plain and simple. Too many games nowadays give you missions clear across loading screens,sometimes more than two or three times. Lucky for me my pc is decent enough now that loading doesn't take too long but I remember that not always being the case and have been in groups with people who have to experience slow loading while having to load many times in a play session.
So really I don't see anything wrong with instanced dungeons you also have to recogize that you can't over do instancing like many games we have out now.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Makes me feel like im playing a single player game, theirs no one else around doing anything interesting. Instances more often than not have a single path/objective, I prefer an open zone in which I can decide where I want to go, how im going to get there, and what im going to do. Instances have a pre set goal and path. Its not that instances are bad like they're glitchy or anything, but it prevents you from being able to interact with other players as you would be able to in a non-instanced area/game. Its nice for me personally to run around a zone, perhaps see someone who needs help clearing a particular camp for a quest, and deciding id like to help the guy. If you don't like to interact with others, instances are right up your alley, but for the rest of us we prefer an open zone.
OP ask about dungeons not zones.
Open dungeons have same as instance you discribe.
But there open to all and much more fun compete with other groups for mobs bosses, best suited in a free for all pvp mmo, instance are crap for casuals and carebears.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Instanced dungeons allow you to do a lot of things that are just not feasible in a non-instance. Destructable terrain, cutscenes, etc. These just aren't possible outside an instance, even today (Fallen Earth, for instance, wanted to impliment terrain morphs, but found them technically infeasible/impossible). I really like the idea of our team against the world, and I like knowing it's just us, no one can bail us out.
It's a great feeling, and a good instance run is an absolutely incredible experience.
In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
PvP dungeons? Hey, not a bad idea, we been able to build Guildhalls and Guildcitys in other games but think about being to build a Guild dungeon and make traps, rent in extra monsters and so on, if the attacking guild wins they get something from the treasure room (Guildbank) like gold or some cool item....
A bit of Dungeon keeper for the guild together with PvP I like it.
Just regular dungeon with a few different groups in PvP aint that great, we seen it all before and it gets old fast.
Comments
I agree that large numbers of people camping a boss sucks. Maybe the difficulty of the boss could be linked to the number of groups/people in the dungeon ? That way instead of lots of people waiting their turn, they'd be needed to defeat the stronger boss. City of Heroes has giant monsters that need many teams to defeat, not just one. Nobody camps those boss's.
Someone mentioned earlier that WAr had open dungeons but instanced boss battles. This I like. Running through a crowded dungeon was never really that bad to me, even though that is half the fun. But, standing in line for a boss fight always irritated me. Having an instanced boss fight works wonders for this problem.
Now that I think of it Sword of the New world did the same thing and it works quite fine.
I'd have to disagree, walking into a dungeon with your party to find it camped by 10 other groups all waiting for mobs to spawn kills immersion.....
Sadly that's exactly how many of the posters on MMORPG.com seem to feel. They can't have fun unless they steal their fun from other players. Vampires that expect the community to continue feeding their empty hunger to ruin someone elses good time.
Let me some up some arguments here.
Instances are bad because:
They are easier - 5 -6 people clearing a dungeon by themselves is not easier than your whole guild going through and clearing the dungeon and then helping out on the last boss.
Immersion - What story ever had the party of adventurers get to the end bad guy and then they waited in line to kill him while the other 3 groups did it. or another group pk's them in the last fight?
Its supposed to be a massive multiplayer game - so anything where the entire server population can't access it at once sucks? Well there are multiple servers in most games so i guess they aren't MMO's since it divides up the game population. Oh and if 1000 people were all in the same dungeon I guess you would be ok with lag?
You can't pk someone while in mid fight of a boss - well this only applies to pvp servers which not everyone plays. On a pve server this argument is moot. Second this is ganking. You want to gank a group in midfight? doesn't this destroy the whole "pk'ers aren't all immature asses " argument? So yea the fight is now harder because you have to watch your backs but then it can also be eaiser b/c you can just gank the group right before they kill the boss than steal kill him (assuming no encounter locks).
So to sum up instanced dungeons are actually a harder pve encounter. If a dungeon is non-instanced it is only hard if it is on a pvp server. Instanced dungeons are more immersive since they are more like a traditional story where one group of adventurers kills a boss. Instancing also lets you add in story elemements and control the encounter more than a non-instanced dungeon. Instanced dungeons thwart griefers which is a big reason why so many people like them.
Instanced dungeons do take away the fact that there are thosuands of people in your game world and you are all alone in the dungeon. however you still have your party/raid group so it is still a multi-player game. It doesn't ruin immersion, as that was covered above. It ruins realism of the game world, perhaps the only partiaslly legitimate arguement, but for most peopel the benefits out weigh the negatives on this one.
Final summation:The people who like non-instanced dungeons and hate instanced dungeons have their own agenda, namely griefing. They want to gank people and control a dungeon so they can get the uber loot and keep people from having the same stuff. They are a small minority so the genre will go more and more towards instanced dungeons.
I feel the same way for the most part. Unless the devs can find a way to stop camping and provide mobs for everyone in non instanced dungeons then it's to much annoyance not having them. It gives people with a lot of time to much power to control dungeons and prevent others from getting loot. Most casual players would not be interested in this as they likely work or do something else that takes up a lot of their time and provides pleantly of frustration and they want to sit down and enjoy a not so frustrating gaming experience.
How did this thread turn into a PVP-centric discussion?
The argument of "instanced" vs "non-instanced" dungeons is one of immersion, a question of "do other people exist in the world I"m in".
While waiting in line to kill a respawning boss mob may not be realistic, just the fact that other people might be somewhere in the dungeon with you is very cool and immersive. Anyone who remembers Lower Guk in Everquest will know what I'm talking about. Indeed, my character was saved once or twice by a higher level party in Lower Guk. When all seemed helpless and I was lost and seemingly doomed, another party was there.
And the inadvertent (hopefull) "trains" of aggroed monsters made everyone keep on their toes. Non-instanced dungeons are a thing to behold.
I think what dev's are learning is that for every perceived annoyance they eliminate, they also risk removing significant fun that was tied to that annoyance.
I believe immersion is overrated. I don't like instances in the outside world, but in dungeons it makes a lot of sense for the reasons stated by other people on the board. I had a lot of fun playing EQ, but it was a huge time hog and people with a lot of time generally controlled the dungeons and camp spot. They could exclude you from their group if they wished to do so. This means the players had control which isn't such a good thing in an instance like this IMO. Instanced dungeons allows you to kill a certain mob or complete quests without having to work your time schedule around someone else or kiss their butt to help you out.
They completely kill the idea of an MMO. An MMO should be in a persistant world, where you constantly have to watch your back. Instances of ANY kind COMPLETELY ruins the idea. They result in the *game world being empty. They're *carebear, and you don't have to watch your back - and you don't have to *compete for boss mobs and whatnot.
They're just generally BORING!
When I enter a boss room, I like to see a few parties of other players chatting about who's gonna kill the next spawn - And a few people looking all shifty-like. Then when the boss spawns - 50% of the time I expect the whole room to just start beating the crap out of eachother.
Today, all bosses are instanced - No competition - No fun - No nothing. Darkfall will change that, and it's just around the corner.
_________
Currently playing: Black Desert Korea (Waiting for EU)
Always hating on instances in MMOs! Open worlds, open PvP, territory control and housing please. More persistence, more fun.
Thats exactly it. You just said it's what you like. Unfortunately you are a minority so you will have to wait for a niche game to fullfill your needs. You can't force things upon other people just like you wish to do to them in game. That is a dictatorship for the most part.
Um, no....that's what happens when you instance. The way to avoid the immersion breaker of multiple people killing same boss in the same time frame is to not instance it, and make spawn times long.
In the game i play once you get to the end and kill the main boss you get locked out for as little as 18 hours and as much as 2 weeks for some of the raid dungeons.
playing eq2 and two worlds
Thats exactly it. You just said it's what you like. Unfortunately you are a minority so you will have to wait for a niche game to fullfill your needs. You can't force things upon other people just like you wish to do to them in game. That is a dictatorship for the most part.
You're exactly right, also! :P
And I'm not forcing things on the mass of carebears either, I was just stating my oppinion loud-and-proud.
If I wanted to play a game of instanced CTF, I'd play Unreal Tournament, not an MMO.
_________
Currently playing: Black Desert Korea (Waiting for EU)
Always hating on instances in MMOs! Open worlds, open PvP, territory control and housing please. More persistence, more fun.
Private instancing does not negate the "massively multiplayer" aspect of MMOs. It merely limits your ability to interact (or interfere) with others, on THEIR terms. It's akin to the difference between rape and consensual sex. Frankly, it's no different than having an /ignore command for the chat interface.
The only "immersion" it "kills" is your opportunity to be an unwelcome jackass.
You don't enjoy competing for bosses then? You like the idea of the whole server having easy access to bosses, and the fact you get 'rewarded' with bosses for sitting through 2hours of boring trash mob killing?
Nah, bring back PKing on bosses. (I understand why this isn't for the mardy, or the faint of heart though. This is just my opinion and I'm not gonna post in this thread now. I'm done.
)
_________
Currently playing: Black Desert Korea (Waiting for EU)
Always hating on instances in MMOs! Open worlds, open PvP, territory control and housing please. More persistence, more fun.
Eh dungeons are a waste of time, they are kind of boring in my opinion, seeing as how they are always the same. PKing people doesn't make the dungeon more fun either.
Really why would those trolls keep occupying the same cave over and over, it clearly is a poor defensive choice as they keep getting slaughtered.
Why can't trolls and such build bases that get destroyed or take other bases, kind of like a RTS, that way there is a little more reason to do these outdoor dungeons, as winning does something and it isn't just a ploy to kill a bose to get some loot so that item whores will be appeased.
Don't you worry little buddy. You're dealing with a man of honor. However, honor requires a higher percentage of profit
Do you enjoy competing with players who have absolutely no intention or desire to compete with you? You like the idea of having easy access to a whole server of players to harass, and the fact you get 'rewarded' for intruding on their opportunity to have fun?
You internet tough guys are pretty amusing. Given a choice to fight a den of lions or a petting zoo of kittens, you go for the kittens every time. Faint of heart indeed.
Pvp does not make you manly. Please you want manly combat take either of my old jobs in the army or working in a prison. I don't mind instanced dungeons in todays mmos. Because it seems to me that since DAoC the communties have become wrecthed. At least with instances I can get my group and do the dungeon and be done with it. There would be no need for instances if we could bring back DAoC like communtiies. Unfortunately I don't see that as a viable option considering all the casaulties of puberty flooding mmos today.
Giving it away at the end spoiled the effect.
Because this is pretty much the REAL reason for hating instances.
It steals from the psychoMMO player a chance to grief them some carebears!
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
Right on I'd love to see MMOs pursue this
{edit} however, I'd take a PvP dungeon over a PVE one. That way at least some dynamic events can happen and players can fight for control of the instance (if it is setup right)
the only problem i have with them is how linear and scripted they are. it would be nice to go into a dungeon and not have someone who can predict exactly what the mobs will do. learning(read dying) is fun and that is ruined when everyone knows exactly what is going to happen.
aside from that i have no problem with them...i think its a great idea. equally if the dungeon is about 4+ hours long and huge i can see why an open dungeon would work too (like in Vanguard)
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
Right on I'd love to see MMOs pursue this
I think within the worlds that we have seen these monsters the idea is that they are primitive and not very organized.
This would preclude any actually industry and it would make sense that they would take up residence in prebuilt structures.
I think one of the reasons that people like dungeons (myself included) is that it gives the player the possibility of an interesting settings.
It's not just hallways with doors. It's stairs, architectural elements, sculputures, traps to get buy and the mysteries that lie within,
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I tend to agree with you to a point, instanced dungeons are awesome but instanced zones are a bore plain and simple. Too many games nowadays give you missions clear across loading screens,sometimes more than two or three times. Lucky for me my pc is decent enough now that loading doesn't take too long but I remember that not always being the case and have been in groups with people who have to experience slow loading while having to load many times in a play session.
So really I don't see anything wrong with instanced dungeons you also have to recogize that you can't over do instancing like many games we have out now.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
OP ask about dungeons not zones.
Open dungeons have same as instance you discribe.
But there open to all and much more fun compete with other groups for mobs bosses, best suited in a free for all pvp mmo, instance are crap for casuals and carebears.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Instanced dungeons allow you to do a lot of things that are just not feasible in a non-instance. Destructable terrain, cutscenes, etc. These just aren't possible outside an instance, even today (Fallen Earth, for instance, wanted to impliment terrain morphs, but found them technically infeasible/impossible). I really like the idea of our team against the world, and I like knowing it's just us, no one can bail us out.
It's a great feeling, and a good instance run is an absolutely incredible experience.
In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
-Thomas Jefferson
PvP dungeons? Hey, not a bad idea, we been able to build Guildhalls and Guildcitys in other games but think about being to build a Guild dungeon and make traps, rent in extra monsters and so on, if the attacking guild wins they get something from the treasure room (Guildbank) like gold or some cool item....
A bit of Dungeon keeper for the guild together with PvP
I like it.
Just regular dungeon with a few different groups in PvP aint that great, we seen it all before and it gets old fast.