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What is so great about Darkfall?
Now i'm going to be brave inough to this dark part of the forums to ask a question. I don't know if i will leave here alive but i must know.
What is so great about Darkfall?
The fans of this game seems very hostile and quite frakly scares the crap out of me. But i am brave enough to ask; why do you like the game? Let's start with my backround and what i think is a good MMORPG. Now Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games is a huge genre. Like sports games. You might like American Football games but hate golf games.
Now I've played around 40 MMOs in my time my first was Final Fantasy XI and i'm now waiting for Warhammer Online. And yes i have played World Of Warcraft but didn't like it (only played to lv39). And a lot of free asian games. And what i've learned is that you should not compare these games with each other. You don't go from Final Fantasy XI to Guild Wars thinking "Man this is not like FFXI at all and that is bad because it is not in FFXI". It's like sports games you don't go from a golf game to a Football (soccer) game thinking you're going to play a golf game.
But i just don't see anything i like about Darkfall! I'm don't like the graphics, i don't like the animations, i don't like the sound and the gameplay just doesn't seem fun for me. There is nothing i like about this game. And there seems to be so many people defending it (mostly in a hostile way).
So i'm asking you: What is so great about Darkfall?
Comments
Gameplay. If you did try star wars (pre NGE), you will know that you can be anyone, any trade you like. Its basically an open world with players making the game with endless possibilities.
I don't think the fans here are hostile though, this is what happens when love and hate collide.
And this kind of arguments is norm in mmo forums... just that you see more in this forum
RIP Orc Choppa
For me it's the freedom this game offers, instead of being funneled down a particular path (like in level / gear based games) you do whatever ever the hell you want.
I could write several pages about this, but I'm in a bit of a hurry so here's just some that comes to mind (in no particular order).
Economy is player driven, which means that there are no AI vendors (with endless supply of money) that buy every crap you carry to them. You mostly sell to other people, which makes professions like merchants, crafters, miners etc. actually interesting to roleplay (competition, markets and so on). And people will always be interested to buy all sorts of things because of item degradation and full loot.
No auto-aim, you actually have to aim your ranged/spell/melee. Combat is mostly about player skill, not about what level your toon is or what items he/she is carrying (skill levels and items still do have an effect, they're just not the main points).
Huge open world without invisible barriers and NO INSTANCING.
Piracy. You trying to tell me you never dreamed about being a pirate?
Epic PvE. For example, there's a whole continent being (more or less) ruled by a celestial dragon, and since the devs have mentioned that you can kill anything you want (if you are able to of course) in the game... sounds epic to me. And mobs are not static, when you kill a goblin or whatever, it spawns somewhere else, when you slay a dragon to its cave it's gone and the cave is empty until something else crawls in there.
500 spells and 500 skills. Sounds ridiculous? I agree, and I don't believe it, but we'll see.
Open PvP of course, no silly magical areas where no harm can fall on you. I want to be on my toes when I'm playing damn it. It's supposed to be MMO and you telling me it's a good idea to prevent player interaction? Bullshit I say.
+million other things.
Edit. About the hostility. It's mostly just fooling around or testing newcomers, don't take it seriously.
A few of the points that distinguish DF from other mmorpgs.
1) No instances! This is of utmost importance. Lets you actually control areas of the world - ressources, lvl'ing spots and such. You can have an impact on the world. Your enemies cant hide in instances. With all the instances in other mmorpgs you might as well play a lan game, it totally breaks the immersion of a virtual world, when everyone are doing the same in parallel worlds.
2) Free for all with full loot. FUCK honor points, fuck blood money, fuck whatever lame point system pussy devs come up with, this is the only meaningful way to do it. When you kill someone, they fall to the ground and lie there dying, unless you get a fatality in which case they are dead. You have to finish such dying people off, before their healer revives them, and before you can loot them.
3) Player skill based pvp (level/char-skills/equipment is toned down compared to other mmorpgs), 3 newbs fresh out of the char generator can kill 1 veteran. So it is not like wow and other games where the guy who has most time to grind endlessly automatically wins.
4) No auto target. Collision detection with friendly fire. You aim your spells, fireballs will hurt your friends also if you hit them, your healing spells will heal your enemies if they run into the area your friends are in when you are healing them. This again means that a small well coordinated group of people can win vs a much larger group of unorganised players - player skill is the keyword here again. Also no radar and no names over peoples heads.
5) 500+ spells, 500+ skills, thousands of different equipment, all is player made. No one looks alike, and noone has the same template.
6) Low poly / low textures, optimized for large battles, they have tested serveral hundreds players fighting with 50fps+. Not like AoC or wow, where server freezes up, and your fps drops below 5, as soon as 50 people get together in the same spot.
7) No pets - no stupid pet that chase you all over the world, while the owner sits back and takes a nap.
8) No stealth - people cant just go invisible on your. You can hide in the shadows from a distance wearing dark clothing though. And you can sneak up on people from behind, since its first person view for casters, and tight 3rd person view for melees. Cant zoom out.
9) NPC ai far exceeds current mmorpgs, these monsters are more like counterstrike bots.
Khael[SUN]
SUN - peekayin since pong
Webdeveloper on:
http://www.guildofsun.com
http://www.bloodmonarchy.com
Us old guys love sandbox games, sounds like you didn't get a chance to try one yet.
I'm not sure why you don't like the graphics but I think they're great. The animations need work but those will be worked out I'm sure.
What's great about Darkfall? It's a sandbox full of life and the people that are so vocal about this game is because we've been waiting a LONG time to have another awesome sandbox game like UO or SWG.
If graphics are what you need, I suggest AoC. We're going sandbox and VERY happy to get the chance to start digging once again.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Last few posts have said it all. A game without a grind. A game based on skill, not based on how mush time you devote your real life to in terms of gear. I could write a lot more but I think the last few posts have really covered it. Be who you want, do what you want, make what you want and take what you want. The game is played by you how you want to play it!
Good thread OP.
Im kinda lazy but will give you a link that answers abit of the question you asked.
Its a long one but all who havent read it before should actually do just that, read it.
http://www.gamerdna.com/Vox/04073-Smith-Dynamic-Worlds.html
Really like this part from link above -
[QUOTE] Aaron Smith: Along with the economic and social motivations discussed earlier, there lies another immersion factor: the threat of violence (PvP). Without the threat of violence the dynamic world's politics and economics will seem pointless in many respects. The threat of PvP combat will cause organizations to form, people to cooperate, and player guilds to take each other seriously so that politics and economics will maintain realism. This spice causes players to want to log on every day just as the hope of attaining wealth and property within the game world will do the same on the other side of the "hedonistic spectrum" Player ownership is more important if there is a chance of loss. This doesn't necessarily mean loss of assets or items. It can mean loss of face, loss of prestige or honor as well. This conflict creates an intriguing storyline and gives meaning to what the players do in our world. However, our dynamic world is still meant to please the player. And while many players are willing to risk their ownership in the dynamic world in exchange for more political and economic immersion, other players see the gaming world from a different perspective. Some gamers desire a world in which there is no true loss. Even if an attempt against monsters in an epic PvE encounter is lost, the players will walk away with everything they own still in tact and they'll just have to try again later. For many players gaming is an escape from the risk that accompanies any action in real life and they would like their work in the game to be preserved indefinitely whether it be assets or items. [/QUOTE]
Have a nice one
There are a couple good things being mentioned about Darkfall that can't be ignored. However there are many other aspects that I find quite unappealing.
The good, the skill based system is interesting, as well as the active combat. No one having the same template is also really cool, better NPC AI is something that has been lacking a lot in games as well.
Now we come to the other aspects. Free for all with full loot? Friendly Fire? No NPC Merchants?
So basically are people really supposed to gather at markets to sell and exchange stuff like the real world? Why would anyone play a game to mimic the annoying real world exactly?
Say there is some sort of Auction House system or Market interface that you can access from anywhere that everyone can list their items for sale in. But..anything other than that sounds extremely tedious.
Free for all with full loot...so after investing a month of playtime you make one wrong move and lose everything (just like in real life medieval battlefield of course) who would want to play in a world like that?
That's brutal.
I'd rather play a few rounds of Counterstrike, Halo or Quake than play something where hours and hours of my invested time could be tossed down the drain so easily.
From what I am reading, and from the expletive ridden responses, I am getting the impression that this game is meant to appeal to an elitist segment who consider themselves 'hardcore'.
As such it reminds me of FURY, which had the same "YEAH!F*** YOU ALL MAN! F*** YOU! You Snooze..YOU LOSE! IT's ALL about Skill baby! RAARRRR" testosterone laden attitudes on its message forums during Beta.
And as such I don't have much hope for Darkfall being around for a long time.
Now, if they made split servers, a 'Hardcore' server for all the "F*** YOU MAAN!! You DIE You lose EVERYTHING! PUSSY!" players, and a normal server where death isn't as harsh, PVE is present with consensual PVP, and the systems not as unforgiving the game with its customisation, AI, and skill based concepts may be different enough to draw a crowd. In fact, I can't really see any reason why they could not do this and appeal to a broader market.
But I don't see any hope of that happening.
just my 2c, I'm in agreement with the first poster. But I haven't played in the Beta, so it could be really fantastic,we'll have to wait and see beyond just what is on message forums and trailers.Let some Industry reviewers get their hands on it and tell us what its really all about :-)
There are NPC merchants in game. There are also NPC vendors you can hire to sell your wares. Sounds like you've never played UO.
Darkall isn't going to be for everyone but a lot of people want to play an open sandbox like UO again. There's plenty people who want this game and although you don't understand the concepts behind it, people who have been around and played the older sandbox games are going to flock to Darkfall.
It's ok though, there's plenty of MMOs out there to cater to all needs.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Yes, I think there are more than enough MMOs out there to cater to most tastes.
But it would be nice to have a dynamic, skill based MMO, with great potential for user customisation, Action oriented combat, and improved 'bot' like AI within the framework of a PvE styled server with no unsanctioned player killing ^_^.
There don't seem to be anything on the horizon like that though, perhaps the closest thing might be Warhammer Online??
Also, regarding full loot. Crafters will be able to craft almost everything in the game and people will just have to keep extra sets in the bank or in their houses. So if you do lose all your stuff, it won't be the end of the world. You don't grind for months like in WoW to get raid sets.
So although venturing out is risky and dangerous, some people prefer that kind of excitement as opposed to going anywhere and not worrying about death.
UO players fully understand the full loot concept and will welcome it back again.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
It's not for the hardcore crowd, this is a misconception. Those who have only played themepark games (WoW) will see it like that way. But it's not. It's a sandbox, and that's is a whole another animal. It's about brains and imagination.
Or then it's just vaporware and we all have to go home and cry ourselves to sleep
Warhammer Online the closest MMORPG of being dynamic?
Warhammer goes in same category as World of Warcraft and Everquest2.
Darkfall is the game that of today is closest to deliver a dynamic player driven world.
[QUOTE] Aaron Smith: With Web 2.0 changing the way we think about social communities and online interaction, many a developer’s blog or gaming community forum has touched on the subject of the dynamic world and the future of MMOGs. What is a dynamic world? It builds upon the idea of the persistence of a game such as World of Warcraft, but adds the idea of an evolving environment: they are games that change and can be changed. For many the dynamic game world seems the next logical step in RPG’s. This article will capture the spirit of the dynamic world and give examples of MMORPGs that have followed this path in the past and have enjoyed the most fanatically loyal player bases of any games. It will also explore the pieces of the dynamic world puzzle in all of their digital and social forms, including their ties to human nature. The dynamic world concept holds incredible potential for both gamers and developers alike, carrying with it the promise of immersing players in a long-term and interactive setting by allowing them to both experience and create the content of the game world.
There are varying definitions of the phrase "dynamic world", but it is widely accepted that a dynamic world is a world that changes over time. Even this definition is a little sketchy though, as an instanced dungeon changes over time as well and could be considered part of its respective game world. For this article we will take a dynamic world to mean a persistent, changing game world that all players share simultaneously and continuously. We will address many intricate aspects of dynamic worlds, specifically player interaction and the viability of such interaction from a design standpoint.
The most simplest aspects of a dynamic world are those built into the world itself. A changing weather system (snow, rain, hail, fog, etc), seasons, and constellations and planetary movements are prime examples. Migrating monster spawns or camps also fall into this category. These things and more are examples of dynamism in a virtual world from an environmental standpoint (created by the developers). However, these are entirely the result of developer guidance, rather than player-driven change
We can classify player driven change in a game world in two categories: constructive (the creation of new cities, items and places) and destructive (the overthrow of a city, elimination of a threat, etc.). There have been several MMOG's in the past that have implemented some of these ideas into their game worlds, and many more that have claimed to have a dynamic world simply to attract more attention. Some examples of virtual worlds with dynamic elements are seen below. Many of the listed games have received a comparatively minor amount of player and developer attention in the past.
Virtual worlds with some dynamic elements:
Ultima Online (Origin) — Allowed players to purchase houses or fortifications (such as towers, forts and castles) and place them on flat land in the game world. Players could create the equivalent of crude towns by placing these structures close together. This effectively created a dynamic element during game play. However players could not destroy the assets of another player, removing any possible "destructive change".
Shadowbane (Wolfpack) — Players could construct their own cities around a "spawn" point called a "tree of life". Cities could be placed nearly anywhere on the map and would be recorded onto a dynamic map of the world that would display information about the cities sphere of influence, population, etc. The tree of life protected the buildings around it from outside destruction, effectively making them immune to attack except during a declared siege. Sieges were initiated with a "bane stone" that would negate the tree of life's power at a time of the defenders choosing. Players could also place siege engines and wall defenses. Later in Shadowbane's development a resource system was implemented that placed many mines all over the world that could be controlled by players to collect resources for crafting. A territory control system was also implemented that allowed players to claim pieces of the map under the banner of their guild for certain distinct bonuses and titles.
Star Wars Galaxies (SOE) — The developers introduced player owned cities into the game that contained a function that allowed them to police their own territory, although the implementation changed schizophrenically over time. Initially, a /citywarning command was present that forced outside players to leave the premises under pain of attack. After complaints that these city functions were helping certain factions "choke" vital content areas, the /citywarning aspect was removed, effectively making player cities free ground for all. Instead, SWG relies on its implementation of the factional (Empire vs. Rebel) system. Most Star Wars Galaxies buildings are unassailable (such as player housing, cantinas and the like), but SWG also features factional fortifications such as turrets and bases which will defend against the opposite faction and may also be raided and destroyed by the enemy.
Eve Online (CCP Games) — In Eve online players can claim realms of space as their respective territory and construct player run space stations within the area. Players can also mine resources from asteroids to later use during starship construction.
Second Life (Linden Labs) — The application drew major attention in 2006. Although some claim it does not classify as game due to the lack of any sort of point system, win/loss factor, or "end game" it has attracted a large group of subscription based users. The world is as close to dynamic as a mainstream online application has reached up until this point. Users can add content into the game and even maintain intellectual property rights over it. They can also design and place buildings and develop art through other avenues within the program.
It must be noted that the trend in MMORPG’s has been toward instanced game worlds in recent years, as it solves a number of design snags that developers have had on their plates in previous games. Since the goal of most mainstream MMORPGs has been primarily to focus on in-depth environmental content such as intriguing storylines or epic monster encounters, the idea of a PvE based monolithic (one piece) environment has been discarded. Gaming enthusiast Mike Rozak explains the reason for this:
A monolithic reality doesn't work well for virtual worlds (in my opinion). The problem was noticed from the very beginning of text MUDs, since in a monolithic reality, if one player changes the world, it remains changed for all players. This means that if a player kills the evil overlord, then for all players thereafter the evil overlord is dead, which is a bit of a bummer for all the other players who wanted their chance at defeating the evil overlord.[1]
It is here that the reasoning behind the current developer trend toward instancing becomes apparent. It is logical and convenient to fracture the game world in a way that gives all players a shot at immersing themselves in the environmental content of the game. Yet gamers everywhere are crying out for something more; something that they can change and influence. Why hasn’t this been done already? In a game based solely or mostly on built-in environmental content is it possible to have a player driven dynamic from a development standpoint? Cultural historian Timothy Burke touches on the feelings regarding the purely environmental (PvE) aspect of dynamic worlds:
When I've ventured out before on this topic, I've found a reasonable degree of consensus on this point among scholars, developers and players, that dynamic, changing, responsive synthetic worlds are what we need. I've also heard on many occasions that they simply are not technically possible at the present time. [2]
I don't get this. Really.
On one side, people say "Full loot adds excitement, because you can lose stuff!!!!11".
Then, when someone considers this brutal, they turn right around and say "Well, it's not brutal. Items aren't important anyway, skill matters!"
All right. So going by that logic. Items don't matter much. It's the skill that matters. Why Full Loot? What for? And why is it in any way more dangerous and risky" to go out in this game as opposed to others then. If I know perfectly well that I run into a battle and that, regardless of if I lose all my stuff or not, I can easily get it back...well, risk gone, isn't it?
I would like some clarification on this. ARE items important? Does it actually -HURT- to lose an item because oyu might have to spend a long long while getting something equivalent or need to spend lots of hard earned cash to get it crafted?
Or are items not important. The difference between them only marginal and the loss of items is easily replaced or you can have multiple sets of the same stuff in your vault at the same time?
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
I don't get this. Really.
On one side, people say "Full loot adds excitement, because you can lose stuff!!!!11".
Then, when someone considers this brutal, they turn right around and say "Well, it's not brutal. Items aren't important anyway, skill matters!"
All right. So going by that logic. Items don't matter much. It's the skill that matters. Why Full Loot? What for? And why is it in any way more dangerous and risky" to go out in this game as opposed to others then. If I know perfectly well that I run into a battle and that, regardless of if I lose all my stuff or not, I can easily get it back...well, risk gone, isn't it?
I would like some clarification on this. ARE items important? Does it actually -HURT- to lose an item because oyu might have to spend a long long while getting something equivalent or need to spend lots of hard earned cash to get it crafted?
Or are items not important. The difference between them only marginal and the loss of items is easily replaced or you can have multiple sets of the same stuff in your vault at the same time?
It depends on how you prepare. If you have no backup sets of armor and weapons and you die, yeah it's going to hurt. But if you plan ahead and have extras in the bank, it won't hurt as much. Now then again, there are some hard to acquire items that drop in dungeons and high level monsters that you can't craft and that would hurt bad losing one of those. But it's not like in WoW or other games where you have to have raid gear or you basically suck. The stats on low items versus higher items are not that different compared to games like WoW.
It's difficult to explain these things because unless you played UO, it won't make much sense. All I can tell you is that full loot is VERY exhilarating because it's risky to go out adventuring. You never know who's going to pop up around the corner and some people find that fun.
It's a virtual open world full of strategy, danger, and opportunity. That's why they call it a sandbox game, you can do whatever you want. But it's not for everyone, especially people who have grown up playing WoW and never played UO. The concepts in Darkfall will seem very foreign to those who never played UO.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
I don't get this. Really.
On one side, people say "Full loot adds excitement, because you can lose stuff!!!!11".
Then, when someone considers this brutal, they turn right around and say "Well, it's not brutal. Items aren't important anyway, skill matters!"
All right. So going by that logic. Items don't matter much. It's the skill that matters. Why Full Loot? What for? And why is it in any way more dangerous and risky" to go out in this game as opposed to others then. If I know perfectly well that I run into a battle and that, regardless of if I lose all my stuff or not, I can easily get it back...well, risk gone, isn't it?
I would like some clarification on this. ARE items important? Does it actually -HURT- to lose an item because oyu might have to spend a long long while getting something equivalent or need to spend lots of hard earned cash to get it crafted?
Or are items not important. The difference between them only marginal and the loss of items is easily replaced or you can have multiple sets of the same stuff in your vault at the same time?
Its the combined risk of loosing your gear, loose your face, loose your reputation as a serious competetive guild or loosing your power as a guild both economically and politically. This can be the other way arround too and many seek just that. Loose your gear is just a part of the "ingame" heat many seek in a game like Darkfall. Add the possibility to shit talk your enemies and you have even more "heat". Darkfall players seek consequences and a meaning for playing the game. If you die then face the consequences and loose your gear.
A quote from other side - [QUOTE] Aaron Smith: Along with the economic and social motivations discussed earlier, there lies another immersion factor: the threat of violence (PvP). Without the threat of violence the dynamic world's politics and economics will seem pointless in many respects. The threat of PvP combat will cause organizations to form, people to cooperate, and player guilds to take each other seriously so that politics and economics will maintain realism. This spice causes players to want to log on every day just as the hope of attaining wealth and property within the game world will do the same on the other side of the "hedonistic spectrum" Player ownership is more important if there is a chance of loss. This doesn't necessarily mean loss of assets or items. It can mean loss of face, loss of prestige or honor as well. This conflict creates an intriguing storyline and gives meaning to what the players do in our world. However, our dynamic world is still meant to please the player. And while many players are willing to risk their ownership in the dynamic world in exchange for more political and economic immersion, other players see the gaming world from a different perspective. Some gamers desire a world in which there is no true loss. Even if an attempt against monsters in an epic PvE encounter is lost, the players will walk away with everything they own still in tact and they'll just have to try again later. For many players gaming is an escape from the risk that accompanies any action in real life and they would like their work in the game to be preserved indefinitely whether it be assets or items. [/QUOTE]
Have a nice one
I don't get this. Really.
On one side, people say "Full loot adds excitement, because you can lose stuff!!!!11".
Then, when someone considers this brutal, they turn right around and say "Well, it's not brutal. Items aren't important anyway, skill matters!"
All right. So going by that logic. Items don't matter much. It's the skill that matters. Why Full Loot? What for? And why is it in any way more dangerous and risky" to go out in this game as opposed to others then. If I know perfectly well that I run into a battle and that, regardless of if I lose all my stuff or not, I can easily get it back...well, risk gone, isn't it?
I would like some clarification on this. ARE items important? Does it actually -HURT- to lose an item because oyu might have to spend a long long while getting something equivalent or need to spend lots of hard earned cash to get it crafted?
Or are items not important. The difference between them only marginal and the loss of items is easily replaced or you can have multiple sets of the same stuff in your vault at the same time?
It depends on how you prepare. If you have no backup sets of armor and weapons and you die, yeah it's going to hurt. But if you plan ahead and have extras in the bank, it won't hurt as much. Now then again, there are some hard to acquire items that drop in dungeons and high level monsters that you can't craft and that would hurt bad losing one of those. But it's not like in WoW or other games where you have to have raid gear or you basically suck. The stats on low items versus higher items are not that different compared to games like WoW.
It's difficult to explain these things because unless you played UO, it won't make much sense. All I can tell you is that full loot is VERY exhilarating because it's risky to go out adventuring. You never know who's going to pop up around the corner and some people find that fun.
It's a virtual open world full of strategy, danger, and opportunity. That's why they call it a sandbox game, you can do whatever you want. But it's not for everyone, especially people who have grown up playing WoW and never played UO. The concepts in Darkfall will seem very foreign to those who never played UO.
I know that full loot and loss in a PVP game adds to the excitement, thank you. But it only adds to the excitement if you really have something to lose and that was my question.
Now either items in DF are worth something and are also worth getting, or they are not and the differences are so marginal that one would have to be silly to work harder to get them.
Your example of a rare drop that can't be crafted doesn't apply to DF since it was stated that EVERY item in DF can be crafted. So the value of items really is in the avilability of ressources and crafters. So perhaps some crafting materials only spawn in highly dangerous places or drop of highly dangerous mobs. So in order to get a that stuff, you'd have to work hard to get it.
Now, if the item in question doesn't add much to your equipment as is except in terms of "I got it you don't" feeling, but has no combat value that greatly differs from stuff that can be much easily aquired, then why do you set out to get these things in the first place? It's a cost-efficiency question.
So, as I said, will losing gear hurt? Or will it not?
Edit: @Aragon: Yeah. Well. All the other stuff you lose in any PvP game. Reputation is not something that is unique to Darkfall. -.-
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
I don't get this. Really.
On one side, people say "Full loot adds excitement, because you can lose stuff!!!!11".
Then, when someone considers this brutal, they turn right around and say "Well, it's not brutal. Items aren't important anyway, skill matters!"
All right. So going by that logic. Items don't matter much. It's the skill that matters. Why Full Loot? What for? And why is it in any way more dangerous and risky" to go out in this game as opposed to others then. If I know perfectly well that I run into a battle and that, regardless of if I lose all my stuff or not, I can easily get it back...well, risk gone, isn't it?
I would like some clarification on this. ARE items important? Does it actually -HURT- to lose an item because oyu might have to spend a long long while getting something equivalent or need to spend lots of hard earned cash to get it crafted?
Or are items not important. The difference between them only marginal and the loss of items is easily replaced or you can have multiple sets of the same stuff in your vault at the same time?
It depends on how you prepare. If you have no backup sets of armor and weapons and you die, yeah it's going to hurt. But if you plan ahead and have extras in the bank, it won't hurt as much. Now then again, there are some hard to acquire items that drop in dungeons and high level monsters that you can't craft and that would hurt bad losing one of those. But it's not like in WoW or other games where you have to have raid gear or you basically suck. The stats on low items versus higher items are not that different compared to games like WoW.
It's difficult to explain these things because unless you played UO, it won't make much sense. All I can tell you is that full loot is VERY exhilarating because it's risky to go out adventuring. You never know who's going to pop up around the corner and some people find that fun.
It's a virtual open world full of strategy, danger, and opportunity. That's why they call it a sandbox game, you can do whatever you want. But it's not for everyone, especially people who have grown up playing WoW and never played UO. The concepts in Darkfall will seem very foreign to those who never played UO.
I know that full loot and loss in a PVP game adds to the excitement, thank you. But it only adds to the excitement if you really have something to lose and that was my question.
Now either items in DF are worth something and are also worth getting, or they are not and the differences are so marginal that one would have to be silly to work harder to get them.
Your example of a rare drop that can't be crafted doesn't apply to DF since it was stated that EVERY item in DF can be crafted. So the value of items really is in the avilability of ressources and crafters. So perhaps some crafting materials only spawn in highly dangerous places or drop of highly dangerous mobs. So in order to get a that stuff, you'd have to work hard to get it.
Now, if the item in question doesn't add much to your equipment as is except in terms of "I got it you don't" feeling, but has no combat value that greatly differs from stuff that can be much easily aquired, then why do you set out to get these things in the first place? It's a cost-efficiency question.
So, as I said, will losing gear hurt? Or will it not?
Edit: @Aragon: Yeah. Well. All the other stuff you lose in any PvP game. Reputation is not something that is unique to Darkfall. -.-
No, I said ALMOST all items can be crafted in the game.
It will hurt more if you don't prepare than if you do, how's that? Make sense?
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
[quote]And while many players are willing to risk their ownership in the dynamic world in exchange for more political and economic immersion, other players see the gaming world from a different perspective. Some gamers desire a world in which there is no true loss. Even if an attempt against monsters in an epic PvE encounter is lost, the players will walk away with everything they own still in tact and they'll just have to try again later. For many players gaming is an escape from the risk that accompanies any action in real life and they would like their work in the game to be preserved indefinitely whether it be assets or items. [/quote]
I suppose this is the side of players that I fall on. And I'm understanding that Darkfall is not geared toward that type of player.
There is also a lot of talk about Ultima online in comparison to Darkfall. I think Ultima Online was one of the first highly popular MMORPGs, but I don't think it would do well in the current marketplace if it were launched again.
I really think that the dynamics described regarding Player Loss appeal to an extremely limited subset of the MMORPG player-base.
Most players play these games for escape, not necessarily for constant realistic competition. There doesn't seem to be any place whatsoever for the casual player in Darkfall, and that is the point that more than a few people are making. I think if that is the case, it should just be put out there in the open.
I disagree, I think there's a huge demand for this type of game and Darkfall will surprise everyone in how well it does. But only time will tell, no sense arguing over that now.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Quote from the Darkfall official site: "In Darkfall, all items in the world can be made by the players."
And yes, it makes sense. As I said, I just don't see the loss very much when items are easily replaceable. And don't see the value of getting special ones if they don't do a lot for you. (That is, I see the value, it's just not very enticing XD).
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Quote from the Darkfall official site: "In Darkfall, all items in the world can be made by the players."
And yes, it makes sense. As I said, I just don't see the loss very much when items are easily replaceable. And don't see the value of getting special ones if they don't do a lot for you. (That is, I see the value, it's just not very enticing XD).
Yeah I guess you can, just read up on that. But I guess if you don't consider losing gear a big deal then I don't know what to tell you. Either someone had to gather the ingredients necessary to craft the item or they killed something to get it. However a person comes by an item, if they lose it it's still a loss, not a gain.
But like I said, this game is not for everyone. For some people, spending countless hours of raid grinding to get the uber gear is what's important. For others, it's boobs, pee, and amazing graphics. And for others like the old UO enthusiasts, we want a sandbox game where we can do whatever we want. We want a game where there are consequences to dying, not just respawning and rebuffing.
To each his/her own.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Quote from the Darkfall official site: "In Darkfall, all items in the world can be made by the players."
And yes, it makes sense. As I said, I just don't see the loss very much when items are easily replaceable. And don't see the value of getting special ones if they don't do a lot for you. (That is, I see the value, it's just not very enticing XD).
Lets say you added full loot too WoW, what would happen?
There would be a shout from the fans as high that id probably would here it where i sit now writing this.
Add gear as hard to access as in WoW to a game like Darkfall wouldnt work. Have crafters make good gear that make a difference in battles make total sence though. They might be easily replaced but they have to be replaced if you dont want the enemie to have a upper hand on you.
This make a good economie and give the crafters there well deserved respect.
A couple things stand out for Darkfall vs other games right away.
Seamless world - no instancing whatsoever.
This alone makes me want to play. Do you realize how rare this is to find in a MMOG nowadays? All instancing sucks and is simply an excuse for not working harder to produce a better game. MMOGs are supposed to be about one seamless world where everyone can see and meet and interact with everyone else, with both good and bad encounters resulting.
Significiant death penalty.
Another rarity in MMOGs nowadays and something I miss because it keeps the game world real by making people cautious and prevents zerging. You can lose all your items even the best ones, nothing can be protected or saved or insured to prevent it. If you die you can and most likely will be looted. So now you are gonna think before you attack and plan and strategize and respect the environment like you should. Immersion factor is increased 100%.
Skill based system.
Skill based systems are superior to class systems. You have the freedom to choose almost any skill to learn, the exception being some racial only skills to balance choosing one race over another which is a good thing. Skills must be practiced and maintained in order to max out and keep maxed out for optimum performance. Now everyone will be unique and there is no knowing what your foe brings to battle so you can't predetermine how to plan your attack like you would with a class system. This results in much more interesting combat.
These three things alone make me want to play the game regardless of anything else. Some of us old school gamers have been pleading for a game like this for years because most developers have ignored us and keep releasing dummied down theme park games like WoW and Warhammer and we are fed up with the crappy selection of current MMOGs which makes us defensive when a game like Darkfall comes along which caters to our desires.
QFT!
I'm so sick of instances, AoC permanently ruined me on that with their claustrophobic zones. I so love the Darkfall skill system, if you don't like what you've learned, just learn something else!
Sandbox FTW!
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky