Quantcast

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Grind games are good? Yeah right.

I have been reading some people claiming to enjoy grind games because other players know how to play their classes better? Well this doesn't make much sense at all considering that the majority of overwelming evidence actually indicates players who prefer grind games, prefer repetition, and an mmorpg is more dynamic than lets say, diablo, so therefore the person who enjoys grinding actually is less likely to be good at their class, considering they prefer to do the same thing over and over, which never happens over the long run in any mmorpg. Maybe you do open up an attack with a stun twice in a minute, but the other players reaction is never the same every time, to the previous time, where as in grinding, it is.

 

Furthermore, in WOW people with better gear, who have grinded in more dynamic environments, are often overpowered by players slightly lower on the curve regarding gear, indicating once again that grind does not equal skill.

 

Finally, grinding can actually make players worse at their class, because they may be playing their class wrong, and psychology dictates that practicing something wrong is worse than never of learning it, when attempting to do it right. I.e. unlearning is harder, than learning.

 

So for those who say they prefer grind games because it makes other players better, are not only wrong, but are trolls, seeking to create unessessary controversy for an archaic form of gaming known as grinding, after all, pac man is grinding, and so is pong...have we not moved passed this simplicity? Or should i say retardation of reality.

«1

Comments

  • AethiosAethios Member Posts: 1,527


    Originally posted by Wow4Lifer
    Finally, grinding can actually make players worse at their class, because they may be playing their class wrong, and psychology dictates that practicing something wrong is worse than never of learning it, when attempting to do it right. I.e. unlearning is harder, than learning.


    I couldn't agree more. Grinding makes a player worse, by teaching him to expect a certain response and act accordingly. However, I think you've missed the major point people are trying to make when they claim the grind is good, and that point is that spending more time playing your character, even if you're grinding, is better than throwing someone in with the vets at level 1. There has to be a natural progression to separate the different quality of players, although I agree with you in that the separation should be based on merit and not on time spent playing.

  • LackeyZeroLackeyZero Member Posts: 640

    ... WOW, talk about pulling it out of context.

    The definition those people are using for grind is to fight in approximately the same area/zone/dungeon/etc. until they get bored and go to another area. It's in opposition to obtaining quests that is only differentiated by requiring the players talk to npcs.

    The people who hates grinding are using a variety of other different definitions... Don't confuse the definitions.

  • Wow4LiferWow4Lifer Member Posts: 255

    No that's the definition i meant, that's what i was referring too. But, thanks for clarifying and adding too.

  • zethcarnzethcarn Member UncommonPosts: 1,558

    if you don't like grind MMO's aren't for you.

  • MarLMarL Member UncommonPosts: 606
    Originally posted by zethcarn


    if you don't like grind MMO's aren't for you.



     

    This statement is fundamentaly wrong. First mmo doesnt = mmorpg, Second mmorpg doesnt = grind.

    Grinding is a lazy developers way of adding content to a game.

    I read an article once about how they turned quake 2 into a mmo buy using a grid server structure, any game can be a mmo. (microsoft did the same thing with counterstrike) You dont even need levels to be a mmo.

    Own, Mine, Defend, Attack, 24/7

  • tvalentinetvalentine Member Posts: 4,216

    every MMORPG has a grind ... some worse then others.

    image

    Playing: EVE Online
    Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
    Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
    KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -

  • DeserttFoxxDeserttFoxx Member UncommonPosts: 2,401

    You guys are so one track, clearly the only form of griniding you guys see is level progression. Not knowing that you have to grind for money, you have to grind materials, you have to grind items, every MMO has some form of grinding.

     

    And it is ridiculous to say if you grind the wrong way its bad, if you grind and hit max level you must be doing something right, there is no right or wrong way to play a class, play it he way that works for you.

     

    I dont know what version of WoW your playing, but i played with both normal gear and full arena gear in pvp... i dont chang emy attack pattern or strategy, but i got worked, when i didnt have my arena gear. But as soon as i got stormherold and full arena gear, it was like i had a totally different class. Wow is the most gear dependant game there is, as long as you have a game that runs on dice rolls you will never have player skill, so dont delude yourself.

    Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy

    Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman

    Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson

  • tvalentinetvalentine Member Posts: 4,216
    Originally posted by MarL

    Originally posted by zethcarn


    if you don't like grind MMO's aren't for you.



     

    This statement is fundamentaly wrong. First mmo doesnt = mmorpg, Second mmorpg doesnt = grind.

    Grinding is a lazy developers way of adding content to a game.

    I read an article once about how they turned quake 2 into a mmo buy using a grid server structure, any game can be a mmo. (microsoft did the same thing with counterstrike) You dont even need levels to be a mmo.



     

    your right you dont need levels to have it be an MMORPG. But you need a large amount of players on a server to make it an MMO. Not some deathmatch games that can only handle 64 or 128 players.

    image

    Playing: EVE Online
    Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
    Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
    KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -

  • redavniredavni Member Posts: 72

    I like to grind. I was able to grind 3 billion ISK in Eve just ratting in a single month in my 2nd month playing. Not because it makes me better, but because it tests how long I can concentrate and focus. I like to think that my abilities in this regard separate me from the Ritalin popping masses.

    Humans learn by repetition. This is how the human brain works 101. If a game does not have systems that need to be learned, it's not a game. It's an amusement park.

    Skill at playing an mmo has a lot of definitions, and the only definition you give is WoW pvp. I don't even think WoW PVP is an MMO. It's instanced, has a very small max number of players even in the battlegrounds, and is extremely limiting in the number and types of tactics one can use to win. With all those limitations, the pvp gear progression is still an incredibly boring grind. Being good at WoW pvp is like being good at the special olympics.

    When I am looking for a game to test my skills against other players, I go play an FPS. They are superior in every way in that regard.

     

  • MarLMarL Member UncommonPosts: 606
    Originally posted by tvalentine

    Originally posted by MarL

    Originally posted by zethcarn


    if you don't like grind MMO's aren't for you.



     

    This statement is fundamentaly wrong. First mmo doesnt = mmorpg, Second mmorpg doesnt = grind.

    Grinding is a lazy developers way of adding content to a game.

    I read an article once about how they turned quake 2 into a mmo buy using a grid server structure, any game can be a mmo. (microsoft did the same thing with counterstrike) You dont even need levels to be a mmo.



     

    your right you dont need levels to have it be an MMORPG. But you need a large amount of players on a server to make it an MMO. Not some deathmatch games that can only handle 64 or 128 players.



     

    That was my point.......they turned quake intoa grid of servers, each server holding 32 players with the ability to run hundreds of servers in one game. This was done in like 2005.

    Own, Mine, Defend, Attack, 24/7

  • tvalentinetvalentine Member Posts: 4,216
    Originally posted by MarL

    Originally posted by tvalentine

    Originally posted by MarL

    Originally posted by zethcarn


    if you don't like grind MMO's aren't for you.



     

    This statement is fundamentaly wrong. First mmo doesnt = mmorpg, Second mmorpg doesnt = grind.

    Grinding is a lazy developers way of adding content to a game.

    I read an article once about how they turned quake 2 into a mmo buy using a grid server structure, any game can be a mmo. (microsoft did the same thing with counterstrike) You dont even need levels to be a mmo.



     

    your right you dont need levels to have it be an MMORPG. But you need a large amount of players on a server to make it an MMO. Not some deathmatch games that can only handle 64 or 128 players.



     

    That was my point.......they turned quake intoa grid of servers, each server holding 32 players with the ability to run hundreds of servers in one game. This was done in like 2005.



     

    yeah 32 players is hardly MASSIVE. It is just a Deathmatch game. Saying its an MMORPG is ridiculous because all it is, is a MULTIPLAYER Game.

    image

    Playing: EVE Online
    Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
    Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
    KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -

  • PapaLazarouPapaLazarou Member Posts: 502

    Grinding is fucking boring man because all you're doing is the same thing over and over again and since I'm not a Zombie I find that very tedious and just quit. If you can gain xp by killing people in PVP then fine because PVP is actually fun as its competitive and you want to be the best but grinding on PVE is yawntastic.

    I want fun unique quests like the Froglok one in EQ2 where you had to do all them puzzle games to unlock the race, now thatw as fun. Even stuff like moving boxes and stacking them up to escape fromt he jail in that underground cave in EQ2 was great fun.

     

  • gillvane1gillvane1 Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 1,503

    This is why I don't understand solo players in MMORPGs, and why I don't solo in MMORPGs.

     

    In the typical MMORPG you can grind quests, or you can grind mobs, for xp and loot.

    I like grinding mobs for xp and loot. The quest stories are stupid, and have no affect on the game anyways, so they are pointless.

    But the fun part, is playing the game with other people. That is never the same.

  • MarLMarL Member UncommonPosts: 606
    Originally posted by tvalentine


     
     

    yeah 32 players is hardly MASSIVE. It is just a Deathmatch game. Saying its an MMORPG is ridiculous because all it is, is a MULTIPLAYER Game.



     

    32 per server x 100 servers = 3200 per game (one world, one game server, one match) ........that was my whole point they made a grid of servers act as one server......it was just a tech demo, but the theory still applies.

    Own, Mine, Defend, Attack, 24/7

  • LackeyZeroLackeyZero Member Posts: 640

    Using the definition in my previous post... Again, there's nowhere in there that it states that everything is the same over and over and over...

    Anyways, I'll explain from my point of view. I'm using Ragnarok Online. In there, there's no "real" quest or there weren't any (besides job quests) when I played. So I go to dungeons, and while fighting enemies, I'm also figuring out paths to get to the last dungeon levels by dodging heavy mobs (monsters spawn randomly, so certain areas get more concentrated than others).

    Furthermore, killing enemies give me loot to make money and sometimes rare loot. There's a variety of enemies on each map, so my attacks vary between each one, since they have different resistances/weaknesses. Some spells I use are based on my positioning or the location I choose to cast them (not like other mmos where everything is just clicking the target and clicking the skill/spell), so there's a little bit of thinking to herd enemies/trap them/etc...

    And seriously, these bosses bring up the excitement when you see them, because they're rare and too powerful (for one person alone assuming the person doesn't have uber items anyways.). However, some mini-bosses can be defeated by one person, but 1 mistake or a lag spike will kill the player. The big bosses in the last level of dungeons tend to have a community of players who tend to crowd together though at certain spots on the map, creating a haven of sorts in that one spot; and when the boss does appear near there, every just attacks it together.

    Compare to Monster Hunter Online? which is certainly popular...

     

     

  • ianubisiianubisi Member Posts: 4,201

    All I see in this is a large tantrum being thrown because other people have more time to play a game than the OP.

  • FrotusFrotus Member Posts: 91
    Originally posted by MarL

    Originally posted by zethcarn


    if you don't like grind MMO's aren't for you.



     

    This statement is fundamentaly wrong. First mmo doesnt = mmorpg, Second mmorpg doesnt = grind.

    Grinding is a lazy developers way of adding content to a game.

    I read an article once about how they turned quake 2 into a mmo buy using a grid server structure, any game can be a mmo. (microsoft did the same thing with counterstrike) You dont even need levels to be a mmo.



     

    I would add that adding tons of meaningless quests is also a lazy method of adding content. My main problem with MMOs these days are the ones that basically get you to max level by running errands for everyone. What hero would really deliver cookies and walk the dog for the neighbors while real evil is out there terrorizing someone?

    A few quests that have meaning with decent rewards, a few long chain/epic quests for nice items that have meaning and don't just get put in the bank forever 2 weeks later.

  • Wow4LiferWow4Lifer Member Posts: 255

    Wrong, I am not whining

    Whining implies no factual evidence

    Factual evidence dictates taht those who play grind games for the grind are less skilled than those who play for the twitch action.

  • MidnitteMidnitte Member Posts: 510


    Originally posted by ianubisi
    All I see in this is a large tantrum being thrown because other people have more time to play a game than the OP.
    I don't see this at all, OP is just tired of the same structure of advancement being used in all MMORPGs. Some diversification in the genre would be awesome.

    image

  • CyBloodreignCyBloodreign Member Posts: 33
    Originally posted by Wow4Lifer


    Wrong, I am not whining
    Whining implies no factual evidence
    Factual evidence dictates taht those who play grind games for the grind are less skilled than those who play for the twitch action.



     

    Where is this factual eveidence; just cause you say/believe something does not make it truth. Some people like a sense of accomplishment ( not all grinding is long and not all is boring/fun) Ttwitch games have grinding as well just a differnt kind (perception decides) They would call it rank in Battlefield 2 or even lvl in call of duty 4.

    By definition grinding is the act of doing repetive acts to achieve an objective. Nothing is more grinding than running the same instanced battlefield over and over again (be it in a mmmo or fps)

     

    Whinning does not mean you have no evidence.  I can whine about how Jimmy gets paid more than me. Completely factual /cries (dam Jimmy)

  • Wow4LiferWow4Lifer Member Posts: 255

    Here's the evidence okay...

     

    Those who play first person shooters are generally better at pvp in other games

     

    PVP shooters are fast twitch

     

    therefore fast twitch gamers are more likely to be good a pvp

    conclusively

    not inversely, grinders are good at pushing the same button over and over

    where as those who like action games are better at sequences..

  • GreenChaosGreenChaos Member Posts: 2,268

    Why are so many people on a MMORPG forum complaining about grinding?  Why play games you don't like?  If you don't like them, don't play them.

    There are plenty of First person shooters, RTS's, TBSs, and other kinds of games that don't have level/exp based grind.  Good lord.

     

  • MarLMarL Member UncommonPosts: 606
    Originally posted by GreenChaos


    Why are so many people on a MMORPG forum complaining about grinding?  Why play games you don't like?  If you don't like them, don't play them.
    There are plenty of First person shooters, RTS's, TBSs, and other kinds of games that don't have level/exp based grind.  Good lord.
     



     

    How many of them are mmo though?

     

    Thats the point we are making..............we want an mmo else why would we be here.

    what i dont get is why dont people who like grind games play single player games.

    Own, Mine, Defend, Attack, 24/7

  • tvalentinetvalentine Member Posts: 4,216
    Originally posted by MarL

    Originally posted by tvalentine


     
     

    yeah 32 players is hardly MASSIVE. It is just a Deathmatch game. Saying its an MMORPG is ridiculous because all it is, is a MULTIPLAYER Game.



     

    32 per server x 100 servers = 3200 per game (one world, one game server, one match) ........that was my whole point they made a grid of servers act as one server......it was just a tech demo, but the theory still applies.



     

    lol so your saying you could walk through an area and see hundreds of players doin there own thing? I doubt that especially for an unreal game, i think your definition of an MMORPG is as loose as a 2$ hooker.

    image

    Playing: EVE Online
    Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
    Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
    KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -

  • BorkotronBorkotron Member Posts: 282

    A game is only a grind because you play it too much.

Sign In or Register to comment.