Though i respect this review, i disagree 100% with what the OP writes. Many play VG because it's sandboxy & non linear. Making VG linear & spoon fed would completly destroy the game imo.
Your "many" is not that many. Making VG a little more linear and "spoon fed" as you put it might ruin it for your tiny "many" but imo would attract many more times your "many" than they would lose.
Of course as a wise man once said-
"Opinions are like a$$holes, we all have them and they all stink"
I would agree that the Vanguard "many" isn't really all that many. But I would also argue that the reason for that is primarily the buggy release and failure on Sigil's part to own up to the promises they made. If they had actually succeeded at making the "spiritual successor to Everquest" as they claimed they would do, the "many" would be many indeed. So really, the lack of a large following for Vanguard has little to do with its non-linear nature. Making the game more streamlined would hardly increase its following either, in my estimation.
While I'm sure you're absolutely right that a more linear, "spoon fed" game will, all else being equal, be more successful than a non-linear game, I don't think it's fair to look at Vanguard as proof that very few people are interested in sand-box style play. The massive pre-release following of Vanguard is proof of that.
[quote]There are just too many things to bog down VG for the average gamer. [/quote] If there is one thing I know, it is that I am not the average gamer. I quit Eve because it was too easy to become rich (damn game might as well be labeled as F2P as far as I am concerned since you can pay for multiple subs with the amount ISK you can make), and there was zero challenging pve content. Average gamers have more than enough choices these days. I am eagerly awaiting the Vanguard trial (and the bugfix patch coming along with it) before I buy in though.
edit: gah what a retarded editor this is...can't parse bbml in enhanced mode, and bbml mode ignores linebreaks.
Well I think you will be dissapointed... EVE is probably the hardest major game at the market now. VG is like childsplay against EVE. You mentioned the lack of PVE content in EVE, well it is a PVP game. Everything is about killing people in spaceships as efficient as possible and making money to blow up more. Getting rich with market transaction is easy compared to running a corp and surviving in 00. So I fear that VG wont satisfy you if you really want die hard gameplay.
I cant blame the OP. Im playing rpgs/mmorpgs and similar games since a long time and I can remember games where you have to read a description make a good guess and try to find the quest-objective. If you guessed wrong, you either run around for hours exploring and trying different things or you tried to get a solution on the net/magazine/whatever. Than there were games where you got some map coordinates and you had to find it there somewhere. Than came the games with x/y coordinates, which made it a lot easier. Than came arrows on compass, marks on the map, glowing footsteps to the goal and the newest trend is that you click on some button and your toon walks automatically to the target. Hell, there are now games out which have a build in bot so you dont have to fight "trashmobs" or, god forbid, grind.
In terms of gameplay, the explorer part, once an important part of the process to play such games, is reduced more and more. The games are streamlined, exploring is nowadays a waste of time, a NPC which stands around must have some kind of function. Leveling gets turbocharged. Once you need months to reach cap, now its a week, sometimes a couple of days. I once discussed with someone on another board about AoC that "Funcom will have a problem if people need only like 10 days to reach cap" and his simple reply was "No. Thats how the game is designed." Maybe hes even right.
AoC sold 800k copies and is, even if everything would work and all content would be present, one of the shallowest mmorpgs I ever played. But as the number shows... with blood, gore, nipples and beautiful graphic you make money. With terms like "open gameworld, good chardesign, wonderful questlines, challenging crafting...." youre only attracting dinosaurs like me. So, yeah VG is a niche game and I dont think it will ever be different. Nonetheless I have my fun with this game, some more people on Halgar would be nice, but in the end I have to weight the plus and minus of Vanguard and currently there is a lot more on the possitive side for me. So Sony gets my money.
The OP weighted different and is leaving the game, his post was well written and I accept that. May he find in WAR the things he was missing in VG.
I understand that position very well. I am playing computer games for about 25 years, and I still have a small box with tons of chequered paper with hand drawn maps and tons of sheets with quest notes. Back then, I loved those games, despite the lack of comfort. But in truth, it was because we didnt know better.
Its the same with EQ1 and UO. People often value the hardships, because the recall the great time they had with them once and think it were those hardships which made those games great. Well, it may be so for some, but for most, they simply didnt know better. For me, its just taking the wrong reasons to say why EQ1 and UO were great. Just look at games generally in these days, they were all less comfortable.
What I dont want on the other hand is things being handed on a golden plate. Somehow it seems to me in games we often have a rigid thinking. Its either carebearish easy-gaming, or hardcore corpse run in underwear. I dont think in such extremes. One thing in Oblivion which I greatly bemoaned was the fact that all quests had that red dot on the map to show the exact location of the quest goal and the boss/chest or whatever you had to find. I greatly disliked that, because it killed all sense of exploration, as it was with that instant teleport to every location. You could deactivate the red dot, yes, but the quest texts often were not detailled enough to really make it without. On the other hand there is the extreme like "find the Efreet in Lavastorm", and I can either look in Allakhazam or wander around for days or weeks. Both are extremes I dont like.
It all comes down to allow the PLAYER the decision what he wants to do now and how he wants to play it now. I dont want to be forced to explore, I want to explore when *I* decide. I like quests where I have to use my brain and seek a while, I dont want to led on a nose-hook in easy-mode. But when I recall how long I often spent time in EQ2 and VG waiting, walking to things or just figuring out what the heck I was supposed to do - something EQ2 alas is also quite ridden with - I just find it no fun. Its a matter of balance, like a tunnel, a path of variance. If you hand things on a golden platter or confine them to singular pathways people get bored, but if things are totally elusive, so they have to look for waypoints in Allakazham, it essentially kills the immersion of self-explanatory world.
Many EQ2 quests are almost impossible to solve without looking for waypoints in Allakazham, and sorry for me that totally kills the immersion, when I need to start to work down printed walkthroughs, because in any other way it would take me eons to complete quests. On the other hand, I left LOTRO because it was way TOO much hook-nosed. I know, it must sound like a very hard to satisfy customer, but laugh about it or not, I dont feel I am. What I think is, most gamers are way too easy to please. Most companies dont really ever think about how to create a MMORPG so that it remains both challanging and still fun, with something to explore and still a place were you dont get totally lost. They design MMOs in the ever same pattern. They think in a box which they are unable to leave.
There are many things which SOUND great in theory, but play very soon very terrible in reality. Let me give you two examples. In Dark and Light they had the idea of migrating mobs. Instead of the ever same mobs in the ever same places mobs should move over the world in some logical but unforseeable pattern. When I heard it first, it sounded great to me, but when I finally experienced it, it proved to be awful, because it took a vast time of the gameplay just to FIND the places where to begin to have fun. Or VG travel. It sure was supposed to be fun to make people travel all the time by horse and ship. That was before the rifts - and some are still rather steep priced IMO. Sure, it sounds cool to ride through that landscape, get a feeling of being in a real world asf. But in reality, when you ride the same roads up and down over and over and over, it becomes tedious. Its like those Griffon rides in EQ2 or WOW. Sure the first time you are in awe! All the lands flying by, the vistas. But at some point you just have seen that Griffon fly damn often enough and everyone wishes just a fast forward button.
I have to agree myself with some points. After the come back to VG month, I had also resubbed. After the players that were lost from the free month had faded, I felt it as empty. Not as empty as some games, but there was a distinct feeling.
The problem I found was that most people did quests in a certain order with no variation. Everyone did HL quests, 90%ish did CIS.. and so forth. So when I did Tomb of Lord Tsang people were amazed that someone would actually do it. Only half the people bothered with URT because it was so simple to get HL pieces (although tedious).
I had played three crafters to the low 30s, and much to my surprise they weren't needed, and soloing seemed a more efficent way to make cash because of insanely high harvesting prices. I had made a Warrior, Cleric, Sorc, Rogue, and Shaman all between 22-38, and just leveled with the same people day after day since they felt there wasn't enough end game content, and just constantly rolled alts.
I did like VG for their faction armor/mounts though. It was very nice.
I had tried switching to the PvP server, but alas VG is not PvP friendly, and you'll find 100 unique people MAX per day on the server.
VG as everyone has said had such great potential. I believe that ship ha sailed. Every class can solo so extremely easy if they choose their mobs correctly made the game just too empty and simple.
VG currently is a 6 out of 10 for me. It's potential is as always 100 out of 10.
This seems to be a pretty hot topic of debate at the moment so Id like to throw in my two coppers for what its worth. Personally; as others have stated, I enjoy the open feel of VG and the lack of bottle necking that is often found in other games. VG was sold and marketed as such a game so how some were not aware of this from the beginning is beyond me. I dont want to be spoon fed quests or dungeons. I dont want to hit a new level and travel to a new hub for new quests only to find a hundred other people standing around doing the same thing Im there for. Thats terrible in my opinion. Honestly who would want to have their entire leveling career pre-mapped for them? And in response to Bodeus who stated that he has many alts that all seem to end up at the same spots-Ill tell you that I have only been to one of the areas you mentioned yet have had a blast in the areas that I did go to that are equivelant to TK, CIS, qa riverbank etc. How or why you visit the sames spots seems to be a lack of imagination or perhaps a lack of 'the explorer' in you.
It also seems that those that are wanting things a bit more mapped out lack friends or guilds ingame. Or perhaps their friends and guilds have pre-mapped their path for them. Think outside the box and leave the masses people. VG is friggin huge with tons of stuff to do. Not every outpost is marked on your riftway-you do realize that rite? I, and I beleive many others, look for that hidden place off the beaten path. Sure I agree it is not always easy to find that hidden gem of a spot but thats what makes it HIDDEN* as well as rewarding to find a great little outpost all to yourself with awesome rewards and a cool new area to explore and conquer. Personally I cant waite to get home from work and strap on my headset and escape the chaos of work and family. How enjoyable it is to have this open adventure waiting for me. And you know what, if I dont know where to go or what to do, I simply strap on my outfitting gear and start crafting. What I may not know that day will show itself to me tommorrow or even later on. This has always been my experience.
Sure it may not suite everyone-what game does? Does that mean VG should conform to a guild wars approach or WoW or any other name that you wish to fill in? I dont believe so. I personally beleive that their is a strong population of players both outside and whithin VG that mainly play for that open world feel. I know I do.
Just a quick question to cloud: are you a soloist, or have a group of friends willing to go wherever you go? Many people do not, and it is fairly hard on some of the servers to find peopel willing to think outside the box. A lot of us do not want to solo, but are forced to when we decide to do say... Magi Hold instead of Blighted Lands, or Qa Riverbank. It's just not as fun to us who have not had the friends already in-game willing to go with you, even though the loot and whatnot is worth much less than say the beginning HL pieces, or 5 Brothers cloak.
VG is very solo friendly with over powered class, just getting stronger. Just look at the disciple, easily able to solo several types of 4-5 dots their entire career, and now they're getting a 100% proc rate heal/energy heal/endurance heal. That'll be crazy.
I just wish VG wasn't so solo friendly, or made it reasonable to stray off the beaten path.
Maybe so, but its that archaic difference thats keeping its down too. The Devs know this and thats why they are trying to introduce more modern mechanics that the "mainstream" seems to be drawn too. Lets face it if a lot of people really liked the old school, hardcore, 2nd job type of MMos then we would all be playing Eq or FFXI . If SOE is happy with the very small niche playerbase that they have then more power to them. If SOE want VG to grow and maybe MAKE money then they know its going to have to make some allowances to more modern convienant gameplay. Either way one groups not gonna be happy.
I don't see an issue with having both options. Just because there is a "path" you can follow doesn't mean you have to follow it. But having "paths" as options for those who like them is still a good idea, as Bodeus here is suggesting.
Just as an aside I LOVE VG and think it's a wonderful game. I also think every point suggested would improve the game a thousand fold.
The people yelling keep it the same are the problem. They are too closeminded and blind to the obvious to see how good this game could be, if it would update.
Just as an aside I LOVE VG and think it's a wonderful game. I also think every point suggested would improve the game a thousand fold. The people yelling keep it the same are the problem. They are too closeminded and blind to the obvious to see how good this game could be, if it would update.
Could you make a bullet list of the changes that the OP suggests?
big ones, because i've no desire to go through all those paragraphs and summarize for those too lazy to read it themselves... No there is no need for it. I was just looking to whatdirection you was headed... 1. After level 10 your thrown to the winds. Not really, first look at your point no: 5. And then also look at the riftkeepers quests. 2-3 Quests are not layed out well to guide the player. Some quests have zero in game information, you have to be lucky or ask somebody or use a website.
Yes. As opposed to that all quest holds your hand. Now you have quest that doesn't do that. That is not a bad thing. 4. Pisspoor implimentation and location of new quests and old quests And the better thing would be to have a small world with the quest givers at one place. A world that you don't have to explore. As if you have questplaces that you will need to explore to find out about, you immediate go back to your point 4. 5. Cookie cutter path to 50, all toons do basically same thing to level A cookie cutter path to level 50. How come one is lost after lvl10 then. What you are saying is that you would get information on unknown questgivers. Not even in WoW do you get that unless you already are familiar with the game. This point pretty much goes against for what you are looking for in the 4 earlier ones.
Regardless on how one does it. There will always be a wellknown way to do things.
6. Flying mounts for end game...this is stupid, you need them at lvl 15, you basically do NOT need them at lvl 50 You basically do not need them at lvl15 either. Just to name a few....
What you are looking for is another game. I find that funny because I thougth you said you like Vanguard and that can't include that they should redo the game, would it.
Originally posted by Yunbei First, there is a big difference between a leash, which forces you one way and an offer where you can chose to follow a guide or not. Second, if so many wanted it VG would not be in the niche it is. While I respect your taste, there arent enough "hardcore" "old school" people to really fill any MMO. I dont want a Disney world game like WOW either. But when I find myself spending more time seeking the fun than doing stuff, its just a matter of lost balance. Its the same bogged down EQ-EQ2 idea which are based on the idea it should take a lot of time to get to the fun. Its one of these things Warhammer will greatly challange. In WAR they took great care to give the player tools to always find directly a way to the fun they are seeking. I want the challange IN the game, IN the quests, IN the combat, not in SEEKING to understand where it is. I want to fight the mobs, the monsters or the other players, I dont want to fight with the game mechanics.
To me, Vanguard reminds me of tabletop pen and paper roleplaying. No information is given to you and when you do receive some it is often cryptic and ellusive. This is the way a "quest" should run. Hell, a quest wouldn't be a quest if someone asked you to do something and told you the exact GPS coordinates on where you could complete it. Hell, most times quest givers are a higher level than you. If they knew the exact GPS coordinates of their target why would they not go and finish their own quest?
I like to think of an in-game quest as the movie, "The Goonies". If when the kids found their treasure map, would the movie have been the same if the map spelled out exactly where the pirate ship was in the end? They could have bypassed all the caves and puzzles and found the boat - End of movie.
I personally don't look at it as 'seeking the fun' because there is so much scattered around that you always come upon something you didn't expect while looking for something else. In Thestra there are quests that can be had from a Vampire Hunter... I found his camp while on another quest and would never have found it without running around looking for my original target.
It sounds to me like you are not a quester to begin with. It seems like if mobs gave you more experience you would rather just grind on them as quests are tedious to you.
I applaud the quest system in VG... but of course that is only my opinion of it.
PS. I am playing WAR right now too and I don't understand the difference between WAR questing and WOW questing. Everything is still laid out well enough for my 5 year old son to follow.
I just sat here and read through this whole topic. It gave me alot to think about when considering picking up Vanguard to give it a try. Unfortunetly, the negative points have placed me in a point of "I'm not paying for a game i'm going to hate." I do realize that this is NOT a topic for this, but if someone could be a friend and send me a buddy key to [email protected], I can hope I could find my own leads in this discussion and make my own decision to contribute.
Thanks for all your time and discussion for those who have placed it into this thread,
big ones, because i've no desire to go through all those paragraphs and summarize for those too lazy to read it themselves... 1. After level 10 your thrown to the winds. 2. Quests are not layed out well to guide the player. 3. Some quests have zero in game information, you have to be lucky or ask somebody or use a website. 4. Pisspoor implimentation and location of new quests and old quests 5. Cookie cutter path to 50, all toons do basically same thing to level 6. Flying mounts for end game...this is stupid, you need them at lvl 15, you basically do NOT need them at lvl 50 Just to name a few....
I gotta stay I pretty categorically disagree with your opinion on all of these points.
1. This is a good thing do you really need to have everything spoon fed to you? Not like it is really that hard there are usually quests that give you a clue about another area that is near. But even so you can see forever and you do have a map. just do a little looking around.
2. No idea what you mean they seem fine to me....
3. Yeah maybe thats part of the challenge you gotta think a little bit... Try it you won't strain anything.
4. disagree
5. wrong. There are popular paths to 50 but there are several you can pursue.
6. wrong. You get horses early and you can rent flying mounts. there is a progression of mounts and upgrades.
Don't bother listing more your quality of points frankly sucks.
big ones, because i've no desire to go through all those paragraphs and summarize for those too lazy to read it themselves... 1. After level 10 your thrown to the winds. 2. Quests are not layed out well to guide the player. 3. Some quests have zero in game information, you have to be lucky or ask somebody or use a website. 4. Pisspoor implimentation and location of new quests and old quests 5. Cookie cutter path to 50, all toons do basically same thing to level 6. Flying mounts for end game...this is stupid, you need them at lvl 15, you basically do NOT need them at lvl 50 Just to name a few....
sounds like Hello Kitty Online is the game for you!
big ones, because i've no desire to go through all those paragraphs and summarize for those too lazy to read it themselves... 1. After level 10 your thrown to the winds. 2. Quests are not layed out well to guide the player. 3. Some quests have zero in game information, you have to be lucky or ask somebody or use a website. 4. Pisspoor implimentation and location of new quests and old quests 5. Cookie cutter path to 50, all toons do basically same thing to level 6. Flying mounts for end game...this is stupid, you need them at lvl 15, you basically do NOT need them at lvl 50 Just to name a few....
sounds like Hello Kitty Online is the game for you!
Or he should try a FPS instead of a mmorpg lol
**************************** Playing : Uncharted Waters Online ****************************
Though i respect this review, i disagree 100% with what the OP writes. Many play VG because it's sandboxy & non linear. Making VG linear & spoon fed would completly destroy the game imo.
Your "many" is not that many. Making VG a little more linear and "spoon fed" as you put it might ruin it for your tiny "many" but imo would attract many more times your "many" than they would lose.
Of course as a wise man once said-
"Opinions are like a$$holes, we all have them and they all stink"
I'll take a nonlinear game that less people play over a linear one any day.
There are already plenty of linear games out there for everyone else, leave Vanguard alone for those that enjoy it for what it is.
There are two kinds of people in this world. People who pick their nose.. and liars.
Originally posted by vladww Though i respect this review, i disagree 100% with what the OP writes. Many play VG because it's sandboxy & non linear. Making VG linear & spoon fed would completly destroy the game imo.
I disagree the OP is completely missing the point to VG, its suppose to be non linear, freedom to choose.
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS) Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
Originally posted by Tutu2 I wish this stupid game would disappear already.
Nice argument...
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS) Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
You know guys, its perfectly ok not to like VG as it is. It is also perfectly fine to like it as it is.
OP is in my opinion missing the whole leading idea of VG completely though and therefore I cannot give him credit for writing a "good" review. If he had understood, that VG was always designed keeping the freedom of choice in mind, and critizised that instead of complaining how the game does not hold his hand, my opinion could be different.
As I have come to understand VG has never tried to cater for the masses like WoW. It is and will be a niche game, and the developers acknowledge that. If VG were to change to please people like OP, it would not stay true to its own slogan: "Set yourself free".
Comments
Your "many" is not that many. Making VG a little more linear and "spoon fed" as you put it might ruin it for your tiny "many" but imo would attract many more times your "many" than they would lose.
Of course as a wise man once said-
"Opinions are like a$$holes, we all have them and they all stink"
I would agree that the Vanguard "many" isn't really all that many. But I would also argue that the reason for that is primarily the buggy release and failure on Sigil's part to own up to the promises they made. If they had actually succeeded at making the "spiritual successor to Everquest" as they claimed they would do, the "many" would be many indeed. So really, the lack of a large following for Vanguard has little to do with its non-linear nature. Making the game more streamlined would hardly increase its following either, in my estimation.
While I'm sure you're absolutely right that a more linear, "spoon fed" game will, all else being equal, be more successful than a non-linear game, I don't think it's fair to look at Vanguard as proof that very few people are interested in sand-box style play. The massive pre-release following of Vanguard is proof of that.
Well I think you will be dissapointed... EVE is probably the hardest major game at the market now. VG is like childsplay against EVE. You mentioned the lack of PVE content in EVE, well it is a PVP game. Everything is about killing people in spaceships as efficient as possible and making money to blow up more. Getting rich with market transaction is easy compared to running a corp and surviving in 00. So I fear that VG wont satisfy you if you really want die hard gameplay.
I cant blame the OP. Im playing rpgs/mmorpgs and similar games since a long time and I can remember games where you have to read a description make a good guess and try to find the quest-objective. If you guessed wrong, you either run around for hours exploring and trying different things or you tried to get a solution on the net/magazine/whatever. Than there were games where you got some map coordinates and you had to find it there somewhere. Than came the games with x/y coordinates, which made it a lot easier. Than came arrows on compass, marks on the map, glowing footsteps to the goal and the newest trend is that you click on some button and your toon walks automatically to the target. Hell, there are now games out which have a build in bot so you dont have to fight "trashmobs" or, god forbid, grind.
In terms of gameplay, the explorer part, once an important part of the process to play such games, is reduced more and more. The games are streamlined, exploring is nowadays a waste of time, a NPC which stands around must have some kind of function. Leveling gets turbocharged. Once you need months to reach cap, now its a week, sometimes a couple of days. I once discussed with someone on another board about AoC that "Funcom will have a problem if people need only like 10 days to reach cap" and his simple reply was "No. Thats how the game is designed." Maybe hes even right.
AoC sold 800k copies and is, even if everything would work and all content would be present, one of the shallowest mmorpgs I ever played. But as the number shows... with blood, gore, nipples and beautiful graphic you make money. With terms like "open gameworld, good chardesign, wonderful questlines, challenging crafting...." youre only attracting dinosaurs like me. So, yeah VG is a niche game and I dont think it will ever be different. Nonetheless I have my fun with this game, some more people on Halgar would be nice, but in the end I have to weight the plus and minus of Vanguard and currently there is a lot more on the possitive side for me. So Sony gets my money.
The OP weighted different and is leaving the game, his post was well written and I accept that. May he find in WAR the things he was missing in VG.
I understand that position very well. I am playing computer games for about 25 years, and I still have a small box with tons of chequered paper with hand drawn maps and tons of sheets with quest notes. Back then, I loved those games, despite the lack of comfort. But in truth, it was because we didnt know better.
Its the same with EQ1 and UO. People often value the hardships, because the recall the great time they had with them once and think it were those hardships which made those games great. Well, it may be so for some, but for most, they simply didnt know better. For me, its just taking the wrong reasons to say why EQ1 and UO were great. Just look at games generally in these days, they were all less comfortable.
What I dont want on the other hand is things being handed on a golden plate. Somehow it seems to me in games we often have a rigid thinking. Its either carebearish easy-gaming, or hardcore corpse run in underwear. I dont think in such extremes. One thing in Oblivion which I greatly bemoaned was the fact that all quests had that red dot on the map to show the exact location of the quest goal and the boss/chest or whatever you had to find. I greatly disliked that, because it killed all sense of exploration, as it was with that instant teleport to every location. You could deactivate the red dot, yes, but the quest texts often were not detailled enough to really make it without. On the other hand there is the extreme like "find the Efreet in Lavastorm", and I can either look in Allakhazam or wander around for days or weeks. Both are extremes I dont like.
It all comes down to allow the PLAYER the decision what he wants to do now and how he wants to play it now. I dont want to be forced to explore, I want to explore when *I* decide. I like quests where I have to use my brain and seek a while, I dont want to led on a nose-hook in easy-mode. But when I recall how long I often spent time in EQ2 and VG waiting, walking to things or just figuring out what the heck I was supposed to do - something EQ2 alas is also quite ridden with - I just find it no fun. Its a matter of balance, like a tunnel, a path of variance. If you hand things on a golden platter or confine them to singular pathways people get bored, but if things are totally elusive, so they have to look for waypoints in Allakazham, it essentially kills the immersion of self-explanatory world.
Many EQ2 quests are almost impossible to solve without looking for waypoints in Allakazham, and sorry for me that totally kills the immersion, when I need to start to work down printed walkthroughs, because in any other way it would take me eons to complete quests. On the other hand, I left LOTRO because it was way TOO much hook-nosed. I know, it must sound like a very hard to satisfy customer, but laugh about it or not, I dont feel I am. What I think is, most gamers are way too easy to please. Most companies dont really ever think about how to create a MMORPG so that it remains both challanging and still fun, with something to explore and still a place were you dont get totally lost. They design MMOs in the ever same pattern. They think in a box which they are unable to leave.
There are many things which SOUND great in theory, but play very soon very terrible in reality. Let me give you two examples. In Dark and Light they had the idea of migrating mobs. Instead of the ever same mobs in the ever same places mobs should move over the world in some logical but unforseeable pattern. When I heard it first, it sounded great to me, but when I finally experienced it, it proved to be awful, because it took a vast time of the gameplay just to FIND the places where to begin to have fun. Or VG travel. It sure was supposed to be fun to make people travel all the time by horse and ship. That was before the rifts - and some are still rather steep priced IMO. Sure, it sounds cool to ride through that landscape, get a feeling of being in a real world asf. But in reality, when you ride the same roads up and down over and over and over, it becomes tedious. Its like those Griffon rides in EQ2 or WOW. Sure the first time you are in awe! All the lands flying by, the vistas. But at some point you just have seen that Griffon fly damn often enough and everyone wishes just a fast forward button.
I have to agree myself with some points. After the come back to VG month, I had also resubbed. After the players that were lost from the free month had faded, I felt it as empty. Not as empty as some games, but there was a distinct feeling.
The problem I found was that most people did quests in a certain order with no variation. Everyone did HL quests, 90%ish did CIS.. and so forth. So when I did Tomb of Lord Tsang people were amazed that someone would actually do it. Only half the people bothered with URT because it was so simple to get HL pieces (although tedious).
I had played three crafters to the low 30s, and much to my surprise they weren't needed, and soloing seemed a more efficent way to make cash because of insanely high harvesting prices. I had made a Warrior, Cleric, Sorc, Rogue, and Shaman all between 22-38, and just leveled with the same people day after day since they felt there wasn't enough end game content, and just constantly rolled alts.
I did like VG for their faction armor/mounts though. It was very nice.
I had tried switching to the PvP server, but alas VG is not PvP friendly, and you'll find 100 unique people MAX per day on the server.
VG as everyone has said had such great potential. I believe that ship ha sailed. Every class can solo so extremely easy if they choose their mobs correctly made the game just too empty and simple.
VG currently is a 6 out of 10 for me. It's potential is as always 100 out of 10.
http://spellborn.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page
This seems to be a pretty hot topic of debate at the moment so Id like to throw in my two coppers for what its worth. Personally; as others have stated, I enjoy the open feel of VG and the lack of bottle necking that is often found in other games. VG was sold and marketed as such a game so how some were not aware of this from the beginning is beyond me. I dont want to be spoon fed quests or dungeons. I dont want to hit a new level and travel to a new hub for new quests only to find a hundred other people standing around doing the same thing Im there for. Thats terrible in my opinion. Honestly who would want to have their entire leveling career pre-mapped for them? And in response to Bodeus who stated that he has many alts that all seem to end up at the same spots-Ill tell you that I have only been to one of the areas you mentioned yet have had a blast in the areas that I did go to that are equivelant to TK, CIS, qa riverbank etc. How or why you visit the sames spots seems to be a lack of imagination or perhaps a lack of 'the explorer' in you.
It also seems that those that are wanting things a bit more mapped out lack friends or guilds ingame. Or perhaps their friends and guilds have pre-mapped their path for them. Think outside the box and leave the masses people. VG is friggin huge with tons of stuff to do. Not every outpost is marked on your riftway-you do realize that rite? I, and I beleive many others, look for that hidden place off the beaten path. Sure I agree it is not always easy to find that hidden gem of a spot but thats what makes it HIDDEN* as well as rewarding to find a great little outpost all to yourself with awesome rewards and a cool new area to explore and conquer. Personally I cant waite to get home from work and strap on my headset and escape the chaos of work and family. How enjoyable it is to have this open adventure waiting for me. And you know what, if I dont know where to go or what to do, I simply strap on my outfitting gear and start crafting. What I may not know that day will show itself to me tommorrow or even later on. This has always been my experience.
Sure it may not suite everyone-what game does? Does that mean VG should conform to a guild wars approach or WoW or any other name that you wish to fill in? I dont believe so. I personally beleive that their is a strong population of players both outside and whithin VG that mainly play for that open world feel. I know I do.
Just a quick question to cloud: are you a soloist, or have a group of friends willing to go wherever you go? Many people do not, and it is fairly hard on some of the servers to find peopel willing to think outside the box. A lot of us do not want to solo, but are forced to when we decide to do say... Magi Hold instead of Blighted Lands, or Qa Riverbank. It's just not as fun to us who have not had the friends already in-game willing to go with you, even though the loot and whatnot is worth much less than say the beginning HL pieces, or 5 Brothers cloak.
VG is very solo friendly with over powered class, just getting stronger. Just look at the disciple, easily able to solo several types of 4-5 dots their entire career, and now they're getting a 100% proc rate heal/energy heal/endurance heal. That'll be crazy.
I just wish VG wasn't so solo friendly, or made it reasonable to stray off the beaten path.
http://spellborn.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page
I don't see an issue with having both options. Just because there is a "path" you can follow doesn't mean you have to follow it. But having "paths" as options for those who like them is still a good idea, as Bodeus here is suggesting.
I fixed your post so it is accurate now.
Kthxbai
I fixed your post so it is accurate now.
Kthxbai
You probably never heard of EQ1, Civilization (4x game), or even plain old Chess .
WOW is not everything u know..
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Playing : Uncharted Waters Online
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I've heard of all 3 and I would not PAY to play any of them, which was my entire point.
Millions do not play EQ1 and VG together. I would be frankly amazed if the populations of both right now were even 500,000.
{ Mod Edit }
Just as an aside I LOVE VG and think it's a wonderful game. I also think every point suggested would improve the game a thousand fold.
The people yelling keep it the same are the problem. They are too closeminded and blind to the obvious to see how good this game could be, if it would update.
Could you make a bullet list of the changes that the OP suggests?
Just name a few, minor and major ones.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
big ones, because i've no desire to go through all those paragraphs and summarize for those too lazy to read it themselves...
1. After level 10 your thrown to the winds.
2. Quests are not layed out well to guide the player.
3. Some quests have zero in game information, you have to be lucky or ask somebody or use a website.
4. Pisspoor implimentation and location of new quests and old quests
5. Cookie cutter path to 50, all toons do basically same thing to level
6. Flying mounts for end game...this is stupid, you need them at lvl 15, you basically do NOT need them at lvl 50
Just to name a few....
What you are looking for is another game. I find that funny because I thougth you said you like Vanguard and that can't include that they should redo the game, would it.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
To me, Vanguard reminds me of tabletop pen and paper roleplaying. No information is given to you and when you do receive some it is often cryptic and ellusive. This is the way a "quest" should run. Hell, a quest wouldn't be a quest if someone asked you to do something and told you the exact GPS coordinates on where you could complete it. Hell, most times quest givers are a higher level than you. If they knew the exact GPS coordinates of their target why would they not go and finish their own quest?
I like to think of an in-game quest as the movie, "The Goonies". If when the kids found their treasure map, would the movie have been the same if the map spelled out exactly where the pirate ship was in the end? They could have bypassed all the caves and puzzles and found the boat - End of movie.
I personally don't look at it as 'seeking the fun' because there is so much scattered around that you always come upon something you didn't expect while looking for something else. In Thestra there are quests that can be had from a Vampire Hunter... I found his camp while on another quest and would never have found it without running around looking for my original target.
It sounds to me like you are not a quester to begin with. It seems like if mobs gave you more experience you would rather just grind on them as quests are tedious to you.
I applaud the quest system in VG... but of course that is only my opinion of it.
PS. I am playing WAR right now too and I don't understand the difference between WAR questing and WOW questing. Everything is still laid out well enough for my 5 year old son to follow.
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/28371832@N02/2648951313/[/url]
I just sat here and read through this whole topic. It gave me alot to think about when considering picking up Vanguard to give it a try. Unfortunetly, the negative points have placed me in a point of "I'm not paying for a game i'm going to hate." I do realize that this is NOT a topic for this, but if someone could be a friend and send me a buddy key to [email protected], I can hope I could find my own leads in this discussion and make my own decision to contribute.
Thanks for all your time and discussion for those who have placed it into this thread,
Duril.
I gotta stay I pretty categorically disagree with your opinion on all of these points.
1. This is a good thing do you really need to have everything spoon fed to you? Not like it is really that hard there are usually quests that give you a clue about another area that is near. But even so you can see forever and you do have a map. just do a little looking around.
2. No idea what you mean they seem fine to me....
3. Yeah maybe thats part of the challenge you gotta think a little bit... Try it you won't strain anything.
4. disagree
5. wrong. There are popular paths to 50 but there are several you can pursue.
6. wrong. You get horses early and you can rent flying mounts. there is a progression of mounts and upgrades.
Don't bother listing more your quality of points frankly sucks.
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Ethion
sounds like Hello Kitty Online is the game for you!
sounds like Hello Kitty Online is the game for you!
Or he should try a FPS instead of a mmorpg lol
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Playing : Uncharted Waters Online
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Your "many" is not that many. Making VG a little more linear and "spoon fed" as you put it might ruin it for your tiny "many" but imo would attract many more times your "many" than they would lose.
Of course as a wise man once said-
"Opinions are like a$$holes, we all have them and they all stink"
I'll take a nonlinear game that less people play over a linear one any day.
There are already plenty of linear games out there for everyone else, leave Vanguard alone for those that enjoy it for what it is.
There are two kinds of people in this world. People who pick their nose.. and liars.
I disagree the OP is completely missing the point to VG, its suppose to be non linear, freedom to choose.
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS)
Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
I wish this stupid game would disappear already.
Nice argument...
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS)
Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
You know guys, its perfectly ok not to like VG as it is. It is also perfectly fine to like it as it is.
OP is in my opinion missing the whole leading idea of VG completely though and therefore I cannot give him credit for writing a "good" review. If he had understood, that VG was always designed keeping the freedom of choice in mind, and critizised that instead of complaining how the game does not hold his hand, my opinion could be different.
As I have come to understand VG has never tried to cater for the masses like WoW. It is and will be a niche game, and the developers acknowledge that. If VG were to change to please people like OP, it would not stay true to its own slogan: "Set yourself free".
nm