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The importance of gear in WAR!
DataDay
Member UncommonPosts: 1,538
This should be a fun topic to talk about.
Some people are touchy when it comes to gear dependency making such a big difference in pvp. Some say, "it wont be like WoW where you wont stand a chance against someone with better gear".
Well i hate to say it.. actually no i dont... that WAR is going to be a gear based game. The better gear, the easier it is to kill another player without it. So far its based on Renown... perhaps even the dungeons they are putting in place in the game. Grinding renown is at least fun, it just means...pvp..a lot.
While i do not disagree with this system, i know it might hurt some who hate the whole concept of gear dependency.
One of the topics Mark brought up when addressing the players after preview weekend was this
" (9) Renown rank gear
- Unfortunately, a new bug (well an old bug we fixed and then managed to break again) which allowed Rank 10 RR 6 players can go to Tier 2 to get better gear and then come back to Tier 1 and own scenarios. We are currently working on a fix. "
The same level players could run across the map, nap that gear, run back and easily have the upper hand in battles. Meaning gear makes that much a difference.
The real question is, end game, will there always be new gear to strive for or is it going to iron out and everyone who grinded up their gear to that point will be equal? The problem might be for those who spent too much time PvE and not PvPing enough to have the same renown as those with the better gear.
Comments
they already said that gear won't be a huge difference so it will be more skill based.
did you actually read my post? tsk tsk tsk, its a bad habit to reply when you dont read it all.
" (9) Renown rank gear
- Unfortunately, a new bug (well an old bug we fixed and then managed to break again) which allowed Rank 10 RR 6 players can go to Tier 2 to get better gear and then come back to Tier 1 and own scenarios. We are currently working on a fix. " -official statement
Shows that gear made all the difference in these scenarios between players who have it, and players who dont.
So obviously players with better gear have the upper hand, regardless of skill.
Hey, I remember this merry-go-round..."gear matters?!?! wtf I won't be playing" "gear doesn't matter as much as skillz0rs" "grindfest to get gear" "unfair gear advantage in RvR!"
/suicide
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Originally posted by javac
well i'm 35 and have a PhD in science, and then 10 years experience in bioinformatics... you?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/218865/page/8
did you actually read my post? tsk tsk tsk, its a bad habit to reply when you dont read it all.
" (9) Renown rank gear
- Unfortunately, a new bug (well an old bug we fixed and then managed to break again) which allowed Rank 10 RR 6 players can go to Tier 2 to get better gear and then come back to Tier 1 and own scenarios. We are currently working on a fix. " -official statement
Shows that gear made all the difference in these scenarios between players who have it, and players who dont.
So obviously players with better gear have the upper hand, regardless of skill.
And what happens at max level when you can't get "higher level gear" and "go back"? You still think gear will make that much of a difference, even when Mythic said gear dependency is only 35-40% (compared to WoW's 90%)? Believe me, when you have players with max-level abilities, different masteries, and all that good stuff, gear won't be as important. It's one of the biggest downsides to WoW PvP and Mythic knows that.
Edit: Don't go around thinking that just because gear has a purpose, WAR is gear-dependant. If gear didn't have a purpose then why have stats at all? It'll help, but it won't be a deciding factor...
Plus, you could never "twink" at lower levels anyways because you get XP through PvP.
If I worked harder to receive better "gear", then I should be more powerful. I was also one of the players that had reknown gear and went back to a tier 1 RvR area to finish a quest or two. I can say that it did not net me much advantage at all, especially since there were 20 bright wizards standing on a hill hurling fireballs at everyone, which no amount of armor can help with. However, when and *if* I got into a one-on-one with another melee class, the better armor did give me a slight advantage.
Take a look at real life. Why do you think knights lasted a lot longer on the battlefield than peasants in rags with pitchforks? Because they had better "gear".
You can't reason with people that complain about gear advantages. They want everything to be the same for all players, even though one works longer and harder than another to get gear and they should be rewarded. They want to be catered to because sadly enough, they are a large number of players.
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Originally posted by javac
well i'm 35 and have a PhD in science, and then 10 years experience in bioinformatics... you?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/218865/page/8
As a level 10 with rr6 gear i got 3rd place in dps with a TANK... in tier 2. It's not that gear dependent. I'm sure most of the people that have played a in closed beta have experiences where they had a level 3 guy getting near the top of the charts in a scenraio... I know i did...
Actually gear isn't the focus of the game. Like Mark said in his post, it was a BUG that allowed a tier 1 (rank 10) to get tier 2 armor. Of course he would own in the scenarios with that advantage.
From previous posts they're shooting for something like 40% gear 60% skills. Yes, gear will have a definite impact but unless you know your skills you will fall. Unlike other games where if you have the best equipment you were a unstoppable juggernaut.
We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.
Gear matters a TON in WAR.
If your lucky enough to be in the first wave of people to get the higher renown gear you will exponentially increase your abilities. That lets you get more levels and higher xp/renown from pvp scenarios. This, in turn, allows you to get even higher renown gear faster.... etc.
Not to mention all the fun you will have absolutely destroying your opposition while doing all of this.
You know how people say they are rotflol, but never are? I'm actually chuckling.
When I got my lvl 10 reknown armor, my dps tripled.
The scenarios are full of twinks wearing reknown gear who are every bit as formidable as wow twinks.
Gear makes a huge difference in WAR.
I'm not saying gear doesn't help... I'm just saying that it definitely doesn't feel very gear dependent to me after playing WoW.
I think you are exaggerating a bit. It doesn't let you get more levels and higher xp/reknown. It improves your chances against people with lesser gear - there is no guarantee. Plus those people will be able to get the same level gear in short order.
People who complain about gear in WoW are generally just bad players. Spend a few weeks doing arena/Bgs and you'll be in the same gear or better gear than 90% of the population and each tier of arena gear is a small upgrade not a huge one so it is pretty easy to maintain the gear.
It is hard for me to say how much gear matters in WAR because the focus tests put us all in the same gear pretty much, I haven't really seen what someone in say RR 70 gear is like compared to someone in RR 30 gear.
Sadly, gear will play a factor.
It's not about the new guy saying "Hey! I want to be equal with you!!" It's the new guy saying "Hey, I don't have 10 hours a day to dedicate to a game. But I should be able to compete"
The game is about competion, not a steam roll, which is why it was pointed out getting the tier 2 equipment was a bug. Because, even though you spend 72 hours last week grinding your gear just to "own newbs" in rvr, doesn't mean the guy who bought war to PvP should be SOL. Make a game were SKILL is GREATER than gear.. then lets see how much you "Wahn Wahn Wahn.. I spend 4 hours raiding, and 27 hours questing, I should be able to beat ANYONE". F that.. Your advantage over the guy who doesn't play as much?? You know the game better. And can manipulate it more.
Currently playing Real Life..
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You know how people say they are rotflol, but never are? I'm actually chuckling.
When I got my lvl 10 reknown armor, my dps tripled.
The scenarios are full of twinks wearing reknown gear who are every bit as formidable as wow twinks.
Gear makes a huge difference in WAR.
Gear won't make a big difference if the gear is of the same level.
You had level 4 gear before and then got level 10 gear. Of course the difference would be stark. You got gear that was 2.5 levels higher than your previous gear.
There would be a problem if you had 10th level gear and got other 10th level gear that gave you a 3x boost. As long as they don't make gear of the same level have that kind of disparity, gear won't matter that much as long as you have level appropriate gear.
If you make a game where 4th level gear is not that much worse than 10th level gear, 20ths level gear, etc, why bother putting it in the game?
You are exaggerating also.
It only takes a few hours to be able to get that gear.
Level 10 RR6 is very easy to obtain.
If you only had an hour a night to play, you can get that in about 5 days.
Im getting a bit confused here. Can people explain to me the ranks, lvl of gear theyre talking about? At what lvl(character wise) do i get rrg? Do i have the chance to purchase and up my rrg a lvl for every 5 character lvl's i go up? Can someone explain to me how the character lvl and rr lvl work please. Thanks in advance.
You have Levels (Ranks) and Renown Ranks (RR). Ranks can be gathered through PvE & PvP activities. Renown Ranks can only be gathered for PvP/RvR activities. RRGear is available to you when you reach a specific Ranks & Renown Rank. I can't remember the exact Ranks but for RR you need I think like either 2 or 4 to first start buying it.
You can't just Up your RR and not up your Ranks. when Preview weekend ended I was Rank 10 Renown Rank 7. The only limit I'm aware of is you can't be Rank 10 Renown Rank 11 you can only have RR as high as your Rank but that almost never happens.
I dont find it makes a difference at all.
COG armor might look a lot better than the Locust stuff but its just for show. And if you desperate for the boom or snipe you could get owned on the way.
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You have Levels (Ranks) and Renown Ranks (RR). Ranks can be gathered through PvE & PvP activities. Renown Ranks can only be gathered for PvP/RvR activities. RRGear is available to you when you reach a specific Ranks & Renown Rank. I can't remember the exact Ranks but for RR you need I think like either 2 or 4 to first start buying it.
You can't just Up your RR and not up your Ranks. when Preview weekend ended I was Rank 10 Renown Rank 7. The only limit I'm aware of is you can't be Rank 10 Renown Rank 11 you can only have RR as high as your Rank but that almost never happens.
Ahh ok i got it. Thanks.
did you actually read my post? tsk tsk tsk, its a bad habit to reply when you dont read it all.
" (9) Renown rank gear
- Unfortunately, a new bug (well an old bug we fixed and then managed to break again) which allowed Rank 10 RR 6 players can go to Tier 2 to get better gear and then come back to Tier 1 and own scenarios. We are currently working on a fix. " -official statement
Shows that gear made all the difference in these scenarios between players who have it, and players who dont.
So obviously players with better gear have the upper hand, regardless of skill.
no gear did not make all the difference. It was letting players have an unfair advantage and players with skill and gear were gaining more points than they should have.
Wait.
So people trying to make statements of certainty about the importance of gear in the end game based on a gear bug at Rank 10?
LOL.
Whatever floats your boat, I suppose.
Not at all, if you read the majority of it states that its something we will have to wait and see, but the role gear does play, is fairly big whether people wish it to be or not. If you are a magic class for example, every bit of INT you add boosts your dps considerably.
Thus, lets say you have someone who plays more pve than pvp, their renown will suffer. Those with the most renown will get the best gear, making those with worse gear hit less hard and take more damage.
Nothing wrong with this, just its funny when some start saying how its all about skill when stats matter just as much as the skill and gear makes a huge difference.
Also i cannot see how it was a bug. If you get X renown, walk over to the next zone, win the zone battle which allows your npc merchants to appear, and buy that next RR gear, and then go back because you are still level 10 and participate in pvp... then theres nothing wrong with that. Thats not a bug, just something that mythic apparently didnt consider. What are they going to do, prevent you from going to lower lvl zones? a level 10 in a lvl 1-10 zone? omg. Its a bugggg!
Not at all, if you read the majority of it states that its something we will have to wait and see, but the role gear does play, is fairly big whether people wish it to be or not. If you are a magic class for example, every bit of INT you add boosts your dps considerably.
Thus, lets say you have someone who plays more pve than pvp, their renown will suffer. Those with the most renown will get the best gear, making those with worse gear hit less hard and take more damage.
Nothing wrong with this, just its funny when some start saying how its all about skill when stats matter just as much as the skill and gear makes a huge difference.
Also i cannot see how it was a bug. If you get X renown, walk over to the next zone, win the zone battle which allows your npc merchants to appear, and buy that next RR gear, and then go back because you are still level 10 and participate in pvp... then theres nothing wrong with that. Thats not a bug, just something that mythic apparently didnt consider. What are they going to do, prevent you from going to lower lvl zones? a level 10 in a lvl 1-10 zone? omg. Its a bugggg!
It is a bug because they changed how the level ranges were set up at one point in beta and then reverted it back to the old values again. Everyone thought it was on purpose but apparently it was a bug.
Gear doesn’t matter as much when compared to a character of lesser gear in terms of quality. A level 40 player with no gear or level 20 gear will have a very hard time against a player with level 40 normal gear. However a level 40 player with normal (Green Gear) will only have a slight disadvantage against a player in Level 40 (Purple Gear). So things are a bit gear dependent but not in the way allot of people are trying to spin it.
In the case that happened this weekend had more to do with Players getting a full level 10 set going against players with gear ranging from 4 – 6 level. In most of those cases as well the players with the lower level gear were wearing whites with little to no stat bonuses. Apparently this has been noted and they plan on raising the requirement level on the gear to 12 which will prevent players with the gear from RvRing in Tier I. This will not prevent players from going to Tier II PQs and getting gear but the act of completing the PQs will push the player close enough to level 12 that they will not be granted to much of an advantage.