What really strikes me as bizarre after reading that latest article is that the killer was a model employee and is married. Those are not usually characteristics of someone who committed such a morbid act. We know from the article that he's going to be fired, I wonder if his wife will divorce him now. Is this legitimate grounds for divorce? (that last sentence was sarcasm, btw, in case you are wondering.)
Consider others like Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer. Everyone swore they were really nice guys.
What really strikes me as bizarre after reading that latest article is that the killer was a model employee and is married. Those are not usually characteristics of someone who committed such a morbid act. We know from the article that he's going to be fired, I wonder if his wife will divorce him now. Is this legitimate grounds for divorce? (that last sentence was sarcasm, btw, in case you are wondering.)
Consider others like Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer. Everyone swore they were really nice guys.
Well, perhaps they were considered nice guys in public and had jobs, but neither one of them were married. Besides, they were also serial killers, killing again and again. We don't know for sure yet, maybe this guy has done some killing that has yet to come out, but for right now, it seems as though this guy has absolutely no past of criminal activity. Why now? What set him off in such a vile manner for all to see?
Im sorry but I fail to see the arguement... sarcasm... soo thick.... cant see a point or anything.
Edit: and to the handgun bans in newyork and washington, thats not a ban. When you can drive an hour and get a legal handgun, you can successfully enforce a ban. It would need to be a much more widespread attempt and properly executed.
Not an argument, a point. The point is violent crime will never end no matter what is banned.
Where there is a will there is a way, ban guns knives will be used, ban knives clubs will be used, ban clubs and rocks will be used, the weapon is not he problem the people without a moral code of right and wrong are.
I do tip my hat to Canada at least you are willing to instill a sense of that,hence a low crime rate, In the US we seem to be unwilling to adress this issue, some here feel that would involve pushing an agenda, any agenda like religion,"Thou shall not kill" an agenda of right and wrong "and that is bad because who is to say what is right and wrong" so judgemental and an agenda of moral responsibilty which would go against the grain of "if it feels good do it"
How does Canada manage to instill such a proper moral code on its citizens without offending someone
and the resulting lawsuits is a mystery to Americans, could you please enlighten us to your secret.
Not sarcasm, a real question How do you manage it without some group derailing it with lawsuits because they became offended?
Im sorry but I fail to see the arguement... sarcasm... soo thick.... cant see a point or anything.
Edit: and to the handgun bans in newyork and washington, thats not a ban. When you can drive an hour and get a legal handgun, you can successfully enforce a ban. It would need to be a much more widespread attempt and properly executed.
Not an argument, a point. The point is violent crime will never end no matter what is banned.
Where there is a will there is a way, ban guns knives will be used, ban knives clubs will be used, ban clubs and rocks will be used, the weapon is not he problem the people without a moral code of right and wrong are.
I do tip my hat to Canada at least you are willing to instill a sense of that,hence a low crime rate, In the US we seem to be unwilling to adress this issue, some here feel that would involve pushing an agenda, any agenda like religion,"Thou shall not kill" an agenda of right and wrong "and that is bad because who is to say what is right and wrong" so judgemental and an agenda of moral responsibilty which would go against the grain of "if it feels good do it"
How does Canada manage to instill such a proper moral code on its citizens without offending someone
and the resulting lawsuits is a mystery to Americans, could you please enlighten us to your secret.
Not sarcasm, a real question How do you manage it without some group derailing it with lawsuits because they became offended?
Please explain.
As to how they would do it, im not sure, but what im working from was psychological research from a PHD who was rather respected in his associate fields. It was a while back, and it was an abbridged version we talked about in a Philosophy class. Id look for the paper but it would be like looking for a needle in a hay stack.
One fun thing to notice is that per capita, Canada has more crime than the States, but a fraction of the violent crime. break and enter (while nobody is home), car theft and credit card fraud tend to happen more here, where as violent break and enters, robberies, muggins, hostage, murders, and other violent crimes are MUCH, much less common here. In Canada, you are more likely to get your car stolen, but less likely to be shot.
Most research traces this difference back to the "Wild West". You might have seen me comment quite often about how we had a railroad and you had cowboys.
What happend was that during the wild west, much of the States was policed by vigilantism. The police werent reliable, and you had to defend yourself. In Canada, we never had a wild west because we had a railroad that went all across Canada and was used to dispatch the RCMP.
Canada had several problems during that same time with crime and riots, but instead of the locals taking up arms, the RCMP would jump on the train and go solve the problem. So throughout history Canada has relied on the police (RCMP) rather than vigilantism. Which as far as current knowledge goes, is the historical cause for the American past time of protecting yourself 'cause nobody else will, and the Canadian philosophy of let the police handle it.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
Originally posted by Munki Edit: and to the handgun bans in newyork and washington, thats not a ban. When you can drive an hour and get a legal handgun, you can successfully enforce a ban. It would need to be a much more widespread attempt and properly executed.
Quite right. And when the U.S. is done banning guns nationwide, it should also ban drugs like cocaine and marijuana so no one has access to those, either. Oh, wait....
Will Canada honor his request? And check out what he had in his pocket when he got off the bus.
Just seen it over on MSN also. They should grant the bastards request. However, they should do so by taking him to a remote island with canabalistic natives and film him as he's kept alive while being served fresh for at least a week.
Edit: and to the handgun bans in newyork and washington, thats not a ban. When you can drive an hour and get a legal handgun, you can successfully enforce a ban. It would need to be a much more widespread attempt and properly executed.
Your point here seems faulty, or perhaps it was the way in which it was worded. I agree it's a ban that anyone should have been able to see that this would have little effect on murder rates in either state. However, it would cause a deterrent in people acquiring guns as easily as before and should have, at least theoretically, somewhat decreased (though in the likely best of cases be negligible) murder rates. It should have in no way increased murder rates.
First off, the dude who did this is obviously nuts. I don't know why everybody is saying he should get some kind of sadistic, horrible punishment. Well, I do know actually. Everybody loves to sound hardcore on the internet. Even if he wasn't psychotic and actually was just a sociopathic murderer, which I doubt, life in prison or the death penalty will be fine. He doesn't need to be burned alive, eaten by cannibals, whatever.
Second, let this be a lesson to all you people out there. The guy who died here, in his last few moments, probably learned the reality that gun-owners, self-defense enthusiasts, and anybody who grew up the inner city already knows.
Aside from your family and your real friends (you'd be damn lucky to have a half-dozen _real_ friends over your lifetime), nobody will fucking defend you when the time comes. There's a place for people who think the cops will be there in time when their life is on the line. It's called the morgue.
You really have two choices. One is to rely on the odds, like a herd animal. Statistically, most gazelle don't get picked off by lions. That's a good-enough defense for most people in the world.
The second choice is to gain some awareness and potency as an animal. At the very least, learn to recognize threats and try to keep yourself and your family away from them. It wouldn't have saved this guy, but that's the most important thing, and it doesn't take Rambo to do that. Hopefully, though, you should have some way to defend yourself and your family. If not, you should just resign yourself to the fact that, if the odds go against you one day, you're not going to be able to do shit while you or a loved one is getting raped/murdered/whatever.
Consider others like Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer. Everyone swore they were really nice guys.
Well, perhaps they were considered nice guys in public and had jobs, but neither one of them were married. Besides, they were also serial killers, killing again and again. We don't know for sure yet, maybe this guy has done some killing that has yet to come out, but for right now, it seems as though this guy has absolutely no past of criminal activity. Why now? What set him off in such a vile manner for all to see?
Gacy was married for ages before they caught him.
The idea of this guy just getting on a bus one day and going completely bat-shit on another guy seems very odd to me. I wouldn't be surprised the truth was more along the lines of him having no -documented- criminal activity.
Barring no prior crimes, I'd say he's probably been concealing some form of mental illness, a sudden knifing like this doesn't match up with the behavior you saw in Bundy and Dahmer, and for that matter, most serial killers. Most repeat crimes are based around an escalation process,
ex: breaking and entering<armed robbery<home invasion, that kinda thing.
So basically, assuming that he hasn't done anything previously, almost definitely some kinda serious mental illness here (yeah, yeah, I know that's kinda obvious, but you know what I'm trying to say). It's just not normal killer behavior to have it go down like this.
Originally posted by Munki Edit: and to the handgun bans in newyork and washington, thats not a ban. When you can drive an hour and get a legal handgun, you can't successfully enforce a ban. It would need to be a much more widespread attempt and properly executed.
Quite right. And when the U.S. is done banning guns nationwide, it should also ban drugs like cocaine and marijuana so no one has access to those, either. Oh, wait....
hmmm... you mean the cocaine and marijuana that was never legal and wide spread anyways...
the same marijuana and cocaine that is firmly ingrained as your god given right to posses?
Please explain how that has even any symmetry to a nation wide gun ban.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
0_o that is crazy. Makes you wonder what was going through his head the whole time he did all this. I hope the guy gets locked up for life or worse. And i give my prays to the guys family.
Considering Canada has about 1/100 of the population of the US the crimes are going to be less prevalent. Like someone else pointed out we still have crime, it's just that less of it involves loss of life, and more of a loss of property. I think the same thing is with Norway or Sweden. Their murder rate might be low but fraud and theft and B&E are up.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
Remember this story, everyone? Turns out a judge just found him not guilty for his actions.
I don't know how to feel about this. He's obviously fucked up in the head, but he should atleast serve some time in jail. Oh well, atleast he's in a mental hospital now.
Remember this story, everyone? Turns out a judge just found him not guilty for his actions.
I don't know how to feel about this. He's obviously fucked up in the head, but he should atleast serve some time in jail. Oh well, atleast he's in a mental hospital now.
He's a pure wack job so I'm not sure if jail time is really appropriate, however staying indefinitely inside a mental hospital is just as good.
Remember this story, everyone? Turns out a judge just found him not guilty for his actions.
I don't know how to feel about this. He's obviously fucked up in the head, but he should atleast serve some time in jail. Oh well, atleast he's in a mental hospital now.
He's a pure wack job so I'm not sure if jail time is really appropriate, however staying indefinitely inside a mental hospital is just as good.
If im not mistaken, when your sentenced to a hospital for being insane, you can go up for parolll every year to basically say you've been cured or you're no longer a threat to anyone. How often this happens is a different discussion all together, especially considering this is in Canada and I dont have a clue what happens to people who are thought to be insane
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
@Machineowar, although Retro isn't this forum's most appreciated member, it doesn't mean you have to hound him onto every topic. You sound like you have things to say other than to undercut Retro, and I don't think anyone here would object o hearing them.
@Retromonster, I was asking you why you believe the man should be put to death. Surely you have more to say on the matter than, 'I think he should be dead because he deserves to be dead.' Is the suspect culpable for his actions, and would you consider him just as guilty as someone without a mental illness?
He certainly did some very horrific things, but was he responsible? (yes, I'm aware of how contradictory that sounds)
Comments
What really strikes me as bizarre after reading that latest article is that the killer was a model employee and is married. Those are not usually characteristics of someone who committed such a morbid act. We know from the article that he's going to be fired, I wonder if his wife will divorce him now. Is this legitimate grounds for divorce? (that last sentence was sarcasm, btw, in case you are wondering.)
Consider others like Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer. Everyone swore they were really nice guys.
What really strikes me as bizarre after reading that latest article is that the killer was a model employee and is married. Those are not usually characteristics of someone who committed such a morbid act. We know from the article that he's going to be fired, I wonder if his wife will divorce him now. Is this legitimate grounds for divorce? (that last sentence was sarcasm, btw, in case you are wondering.)
Consider others like Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer. Everyone swore they were really nice guys.
Well, perhaps they were considered nice guys in public and had jobs, but neither one of them were married. Besides, they were also serial killers, killing again and again. We don't know for sure yet, maybe this guy has done some killing that has yet to come out, but for right now, it seems as though this guy has absolutely no past of criminal activity. Why now? What set him off in such a vile manner for all to see?
My god not another story report... that is really gruesome .. i wonder what will be my initial reaction if i actaully see those... shock?
Im sorry but I fail to see the arguement... sarcasm... soo thick.... cant see a point or anything.
Edit: and to the handgun bans in newyork and washington, thats not a ban. When you can drive an hour and get a legal handgun, you can successfully enforce a ban. It would need to be a much more widespread attempt and properly executed.
Not an argument, a point. The point is violent crime will never end no matter what is banned.
Where there is a will there is a way, ban guns knives will be used, ban knives clubs will be used, ban clubs and rocks will be used, the weapon is not he problem the people without a moral code of right and wrong are.
I do tip my hat to Canada at least you are willing to instill a sense of that,hence a low crime rate, In the US we seem to be unwilling to adress this issue, some here feel that would involve pushing an agenda, any agenda like religion,"Thou shall not kill" an agenda of right and wrong "and that is bad because who is to say what is right and wrong" so judgemental and an agenda of moral responsibilty which would go against the grain of "if it feels good do it"
How does Canada manage to instill such a proper moral code on its citizens without offending someone
and the resulting lawsuits is a mystery to Americans, could you please enlighten us to your secret.
Not sarcasm, a real question How do you manage it without some group derailing it with lawsuits because they became offended?
Please explain.
Im sorry but I fail to see the arguement... sarcasm... soo thick.... cant see a point or anything.
Edit: and to the handgun bans in newyork and washington, thats not a ban. When you can drive an hour and get a legal handgun, you can successfully enforce a ban. It would need to be a much more widespread attempt and properly executed.
Not an argument, a point. The point is violent crime will never end no matter what is banned.
Where there is a will there is a way, ban guns knives will be used, ban knives clubs will be used, ban clubs and rocks will be used, the weapon is not he problem the people without a moral code of right and wrong are.
I do tip my hat to Canada at least you are willing to instill a sense of that,hence a low crime rate, In the US we seem to be unwilling to adress this issue, some here feel that would involve pushing an agenda, any agenda like religion,"Thou shall not kill" an agenda of right and wrong "and that is bad because who is to say what is right and wrong" so judgemental and an agenda of moral responsibilty which would go against the grain of "if it feels good do it"
How does Canada manage to instill such a proper moral code on its citizens without offending someone
and the resulting lawsuits is a mystery to Americans, could you please enlighten us to your secret.
Not sarcasm, a real question How do you manage it without some group derailing it with lawsuits because they became offended?
Please explain.
As to how they would do it, im not sure, but what im working from was psychological research from a PHD who was rather respected in his associate fields. It was a while back, and it was an abbridged version we talked about in a Philosophy class. Id look for the paper but it would be like looking for a needle in a hay stack.
One fun thing to notice is that per capita, Canada has more crime than the States, but a fraction of the violent crime. break and enter (while nobody is home), car theft and credit card fraud tend to happen more here, where as violent break and enters, robberies, muggins, hostage, murders, and other violent crimes are MUCH, much less common here. In Canada, you are more likely to get your car stolen, but less likely to be shot.
Most research traces this difference back to the "Wild West". You might have seen me comment quite often about how we had a railroad and you had cowboys.
What happend was that during the wild west, much of the States was policed by vigilantism. The police werent reliable, and you had to defend yourself. In Canada, we never had a wild west because we had a railroad that went all across Canada and was used to dispatch the RCMP.
Canada had several problems during that same time with crime and riots, but instead of the locals taking up arms, the RCMP would jump on the train and go solve the problem. So throughout history Canada has relied on the police (RCMP) rather than vigilantism. Which as far as current knowledge goes, is the historical cause for the American past time of protecting yourself 'cause nobody else will, and the Canadian philosophy of let the police handle it.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
Quite right. And when the U.S. is done banning guns nationwide, it should also ban drugs like cocaine and marijuana so no one has access to those, either. Oh, wait....
And the drama continues
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080805/ap_on_re_ca/canada_bus_stabbing
Will Canada honor his request? And check out what he had in his pocket when he got off the bus.
Just seen it over on MSN also. They should grant the bastards request. However, they should do so by taking him to a remote island with canabalistic natives and film him as he's kept alive while being served fresh for at least a week.
Your point here seems faulty, or perhaps it was the way in which it was worded. I agree it's a ban that anyone should have been able to see that this would have little effect on murder rates in either state. However, it would cause a deterrent in people acquiring guns as easily as before and should have, at least theoretically, somewhat decreased (though in the likely best of cases be negligible) murder rates. It should have in no way increased murder rates.
P.S. Guns are bad mkay...
Two things.
First off, the dude who did this is obviously nuts. I don't know why everybody is saying he should get some kind of sadistic, horrible punishment. Well, I do know actually. Everybody loves to sound hardcore on the internet. Even if he wasn't psychotic and actually was just a sociopathic murderer, which I doubt, life in prison or the death penalty will be fine. He doesn't need to be burned alive, eaten by cannibals, whatever.
Second, let this be a lesson to all you people out there. The guy who died here, in his last few moments, probably learned the reality that gun-owners, self-defense enthusiasts, and anybody who grew up the inner city already knows.
Aside from your family and your real friends (you'd be damn lucky to have a half-dozen _real_ friends over your lifetime), nobody will fucking defend you when the time comes. There's a place for people who think the cops will be there in time when their life is on the line. It's called the morgue.
You really have two choices. One is to rely on the odds, like a herd animal. Statistically, most gazelle don't get picked off by lions. That's a good-enough defense for most people in the world.
The second choice is to gain some awareness and potency as an animal. At the very least, learn to recognize threats and try to keep yourself and your family away from them. It wouldn't have saved this guy, but that's the most important thing, and it doesn't take Rambo to do that. Hopefully, though, you should have some way to defend yourself and your family. If not, you should just resign yourself to the fact that, if the odds go against you one day, you're not going to be able to do shit while you or a loved one is getting raped/murdered/whatever.
Well, perhaps they were considered nice guys in public and had jobs, but neither one of them were married. Besides, they were also serial killers, killing again and again. We don't know for sure yet, maybe this guy has done some killing that has yet to come out, but for right now, it seems as though this guy has absolutely no past of criminal activity. Why now? What set him off in such a vile manner for all to see?
Gacy was married for ages before they caught him.
The idea of this guy just getting on a bus one day and going completely bat-shit on another guy seems very odd to me. I wouldn't be surprised the truth was more along the lines of him having no -documented- criminal activity.
Barring no prior crimes, I'd say he's probably been concealing some form of mental illness, a sudden knifing like this doesn't match up with the behavior you saw in Bundy and Dahmer, and for that matter, most serial killers. Most repeat crimes are based around an escalation process,
ex: breaking and entering<armed robbery<home invasion, that kinda thing.
So basically, assuming that he hasn't done anything previously, almost definitely some kinda serious mental illness here (yeah, yeah, I know that's kinda obvious, but you know what I'm trying to say). It's just not normal killer behavior to have it go down like this.
Those crazy PETA freaks at it again...
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/08/06/peta-mclean.html?ref=rss
Quite right. And when the U.S. is done banning guns nationwide, it should also ban drugs like cocaine and marijuana so no one has access to those, either. Oh, wait....
hmmm... you mean the cocaine and marijuana that was never legal and wide spread anyways...
the same marijuana and cocaine that is firmly ingrained as your god given right to posses?
Please explain how that has even any symmetry to a nation wide gun ban.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
0_o that is crazy. Makes you wonder what was going through his head the whole time he did all this. I hope the guy gets locked up for life or worse. And i give my prays to the guys family.
Considering Canada has about 1/100 of the population of the US the crimes are going to be less prevalent. Like someone else pointed out we still have crime, it's just that less of it involves loss of life, and more of a loss of property. I think the same thing is with Norway or Sweden. Their murder rate might be low but fraud and theft and B&E are up.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
Remember this story, everyone? Turns out a judge just found him not guilty for his actions.
I don't know how to feel about this. He's obviously fucked up in the head, but he should atleast serve some time in jail. Oh well, atleast he's in a mental hospital now.
I don't know how to feel about this. He's obviously fucked up in the head, but he should atleast serve some time in jail. Oh well, atleast he's in a mental hospital now.
He's a pure wack job so I'm not sure if jail time is really appropriate, however staying indefinitely inside a mental hospital is just as good.
O_o o_O
I don't know how to feel about this. He's obviously fucked up in the head, but he should atleast serve some time in jail. Oh well, atleast he's in a mental hospital now.
He's a pure wack job so I'm not sure if jail time is really appropriate, however staying indefinitely inside a mental hospital is just as good.
If im not mistaken, when your sentenced to a hospital for being insane, you can go up for parolll every year to basically say you've been cured or you're no longer a threat to anyone. How often this happens is a different discussion all together, especially considering this is in Canada and I dont have a clue what happens to people who are thought to be insane
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
"To DEATH With The Man!" he really does deserve it.
Does he now?
Why's that?
Does he now?
Why's that?
Are you reading the posts and what people are saying. If not, you really should.
Does he now?
Why's that?
Are you reading the posts and what people are saying. If not, you really should.
"EVERYONE ELSE IS SAYING IT, SO I MUST AGREE WITH THEM"
Nice one, sheep. How 'bout you try reading why he did it first.
@Machineowar, although Retro isn't this forum's most appreciated member, it doesn't mean you have to hound him onto every topic. You sound like you have things to say other than to undercut Retro, and I don't think anyone here would object o hearing them.
@Retromonster, I was asking you why you believe the man should be put to death. Surely you have more to say on the matter than, 'I think he should be dead because he deserves to be dead.' Is the suspect culpable for his actions, and would you consider him just as guilty as someone without a mental illness?
He certainly did some very horrific things, but was he responsible? (yes, I'm aware of how contradictory that sounds)