I love SOE

Da1e · July 2008

I'm tired of seeing 'SOE ruin games' , 'Typical SOE to mess that up' and general hate towards SOE, so much so that it has almost become a trend.

It is really annoying, as I have seen people put things like 'no way im playing this game, its made by SOE' .....what kind of idiot would do that??

Just beacuse many people think they have ruined SWG, doesn't make them bad. Just because they released VG too unfinished, doesn't make them bad.

MANY people (me included) think Blizzard ruined WoW by adding the Burning Crusades, but I don't see many 'I hate blizzard' threads etc. AoC was released with plenty of bugs etc to go around, I don't see nearly as many 'I hate funcom' or whoever makes AoC....

Although I hate WoW BC, I don't blame Blizzard, and it would be stupid for me to do so,

so why is this the case with narrow minded people and SOE ?

EQ2 is a fully successful game, which I have heard has improved and been made brilliant, and Vanguard has had nothing but improvements.

What I don't think people understand is that there are actually people at SOE, it's not just some evil company, and just because they have made some mistakes, doesn't make the work that the staff do any less relevant or mean they don't but the effort in, which is why I get so annoyed every time I see stupid comments about SOE.

Earlier I read 'It goes against my principles to buy a SOE game' ..... what principles are these??? It's just people playing to the crowd. Monkey see monkey do.

Hopefully the monkeys will read this and realise they are infact monkeys... and afterall, SOE has had some pretty successful games, so who are YOU to judge them?

(and no I'm not SOE staff, I wish I was)

therain93 · July 2008

Well, as (former) customers, I think they do have the right to judge SOE and boycott it if they so wish.

Da1e · July 2008

'the right', yes, but it's so incredibly stupid to do so. Again, I don't see numerous Blizzard hate posts?

Nightbringe1 · July 2008

While I personally have never had an issue with SoE, they have made some pretty dumb moves in the past.

Da1e · July 2008

Originally posted by Nightbringe1

While I personally have never had an issue with SoE, they have made some pretty dumb moves in the past.

granted, but so has any and every company. Microsoft has made incredibly stupid decisions, yet it's one of the most successful businesses in the world.

Making 'dumb moves' isn't a reason for someone to not play a SOE game 'out of principle' . Tbh I think THAT is more of a 'dumb move'

ronan32 · July 2008

Originally posted by Da1e

I'm tired of seeing 'SOE ruin games' , 'Typical SOE to mess that up' and general hate towards SOE, so much so that it has almost become a trend.
It is really annoying, as I have seen people put things like 'no way im playing this game, its made by SOE' .....what kind of idiot would do that??
Just beacuse many people think they have ruined SWG, doesn't make them bad. Just because they released VG too unfinished, doesn't make them bad.
MANY people (me included) think Blizzard ruined WoW by adding the Burning Crusades, but I don't see many 'I hate blizzard' threads etc. AoC was released with plenty of bugs etc to go around, I don't see nearly as many 'I hate funcom' or whoever makes AoC....
Although I hate WoW BC, I don't blame Blizzard, and it would be stupid for me to do so,
so why is this the case with narrow minded people and SOE ?
EQ2 is a fully successful game, which I have heard has improved and been made brilliant, and Vanguard has had nothing but improvements.

What I don't think people understand is that there are actually people at SOE, it's not just some evil company, and just because they have made some mistakes, doesn't make the work that the staff do any less relevant or mean they don't but the effort in, which is why I get so annoyed every time I see stupid comments about SOE.
Earlier I read 'It goes against my principles to buy a SOE game' ..... what principles are these??? It's just people playing to the crowd. Monkey see monkey do.
Hopefully the monkeys will read this and realise they are infact monkeys... and afterall, SOE has had some pretty successful games, so who are YOU to judge them?

(and no I'm not SOE staff, I wish I was)

my avatar sig says your wrong..plus soe employ slimeballs like julio torres and john smedley..just listening to them talk about the future of mmo's makes me sick. Some of us have a different opinion to you so you go call us monkeys..*clap* well done..now get back to your type writer with the other soe shillers.

Da1e · July 2008

Sorry but if something is in your sig it doesn't make it right...it makes you stupid if anything and a preacher. I think people can make their own decisions on what to buy.

Again, the plans for their future MMOs isn't a reason not to buy CURRENT SoE's games. It's not about the developper, it's about the game. Are you telling me if SoE made the best game in the world, you wouldn't buy it because your sig says so?

AND

yes, monkeys see and monkeys do. would you prefer it if i called you sheep?

'don't buy soe games' isn't an opinion, so yes, people have different opinions, why do you feel the need to excessively state yours?

Daffid011 · July 2008

Yes, SOE has a whole list of very successful games and is widely considered a role model in the MMO industry. From their fully polished and complete game launches to their unquestionable business ethics, they sure to blaze the trail all companies only wish they could. If only they had not made that one tiny little mistake in SWG there would be nothing else for people to complain about.

Everyone is a monkey for not being as well informed as you. We all love paying for games that are purposefully pushed out to early so that we can continue paying for a beta product.

Like some EQ2 fan said in another thread, "I will take what they give me and so will you".

Just because SOE happened to do the worst act in MMO history doesn't downgrade anything else they have done.

ronan32 · July 2008

Originally posted by Da1e

Originally posted by Nightbringe1

While I personally have never had an issue with SoE, they have made some pretty dumb moves in the past.

granted, but so has any and every company. Microsoft has made incredibly stupid decisions, yet it's one of the most successful businesses in the world.

Making 'dumb moves' isn't a reason for someone to not play a SOE game 'out of principle' . Tbh I think THAT is more of a 'dumb move'

its dumb because you say so? who are you to judge anyone..are you the king of all that is intelligent and have the power to decide what is dumb, and what is not. Someone who decided not to play a game by a company, because you got ripped off by that company previously is dumb?

if you bought a car from a car dealer ship and the car fell apart a week after buying it, would you buy your next car from that dealership? if your answer is yes, then we know who is the dummy.

morpin · July 2008

What they did to the SWG customers I will never forgive nor forget. It has been much discussed so I wont bother.

I hope they have learned their lesson.

I really enjoy playing Vanguard. To me not playing the game would be like cutting off my nose to smite my face.

ronan32 · July 2008

Originally posted by Da1e

Sorry but if something is in your sig it doesn't make it right...it makes you stupid if anything and a preacher. I think people can make their own decisions on what to buy.
Again, the plans for their future MMOs isn't a reason not to buy CURRENT SoE's games. It's not about the developper, it's about the game. Are you telling me if SoE made the best game in the world, you wouldn't buy it because your sig says so?
AND
yes, monkeys see and monkeys do. would you prefer it if i called you sheep?
'don't buy soe games' isn't an opinion, so yes, people have different opinions, why do you feel the need to excessively state yours?

the same reason why you have the need to state your opinion....i wont play a soe game ever again and soe will never make the "best game in the world", as you put it.

Da1e · July 2008

Originally posted by ronan32

Originally posted by Da1e

Originally posted by Nightbringe1

While I personally have never had an issue with SoE, they have made some pretty dumb moves in the past.

granted, but so has any and every company. Microsoft has made incredibly stupid decisions, yet it's one of the most successful businesses in the world.

Making 'dumb moves' isn't a reason for someone to not play a SOE game 'out of principle' . Tbh I think THAT is more of a 'dumb move'

its dumb because you say so? who are you to judge anyone..are you the king of all that is intelligent and have the power to decide what is dumb, and what is not. Someone who decided not to play a game by a company, because you got ripped off by that company previously is dumb?

if you bought a car from a car dealer ship and the car fell apart a week after buying it, would you buy your next car from that dealership? if your answer is yes, then we know who is the dummy.

You don't understand do you? I don't care about your opinion, I don't care if people hate SOE. What I do hate is people shouting about it, and people with it in their SIGS. Who am I to judge? Who are you to tell people not to buy SOE games?? Hypocrite.

That's not a fair analogy. Many car manufacturers do make terrible cars, then go on to buy very popular alternatives that people do buy. It would be stupid for the people that bought the terrible car to NOT give the second car a go.

Da1e · July 2008

ronan32 · July 2008

Originally posted by morpin

What they did to the SWG customers I will never forgive nor forget. It has been much discussed so I wont bother.
I hope they have learned their lesson.
I really enjoy playing Vanguard. To me not playing the game would be like cutting off my nose to smite my face.

soe did not make vanguard..they took it over from sigil. Vanguard would not be as free and open if it were originally a soe game..it would be like everquest 2, full of zones and loading screens.

Da1e · July 2008

Originally posted by ronan32

Originally posted by Da1e

Sorry but if something is in your sig it doesn't make it right...it makes you stupid if anything and a preacher. I think people can make their own decisions on what to buy.
Again, the plans for their future MMOs isn't a reason not to buy CURRENT SoE's games. It's not about the developper, it's about the game. Are you telling me if SoE made the best game in the world, you wouldn't buy it because your sig says so?
AND
yes, monkeys see and monkeys do. would you prefer it if i called you sheep?
'don't buy soe games' isn't an opinion, so yes, people have different opinions, why do you feel the need to excessively state yours?

the same reason why you have the need to state your opinion....i wont play a soe game ever again and soe will never make the "best game in the world", as you put it.

my opinion is that people shouldn't disregard products of SOE simply because of previous mistakes. My reason is because it is stupid and ignorant, and holding a grudge will get you nowhere.

Thats not the same reason as you so be quiet please. You're just trying to make a point and hold a grudge, putting new customers off

Locklain · July 2008

Originally posted by ronan32

Originally posted by morpin

What they did to the SWG customers I will never forgive nor forget. It has been much discussed so I wont bother.
I hope they have learned their lesson.
I really enjoy playing Vanguard. To me not playing the game would be like cutting off my nose to smite my face.

soe did not make vanguard..they took it over from sigil. Vanguard would not be as free and open if it were originally a soe game..it would be like everquest 2, full of zones and loading screens.

Its a good thing you know this as a FACT isn't that right? For all you know Vanguard could have taken all of WoW's subs if SOE developed it.

Da1e · July 2008

Originally posted by ronan32

Originally posted by morpin

What they did to the SWG customers I will never forgive nor forget. It has been much discussed so I wont bother.
I hope they have learned their lesson.
I really enjoy playing Vanguard. To me not playing the game would be like cutting off my nose to smite my face.

soe did not make vanguard..they took it over from sigil. Vanguard would not be as free and open if it were originally a soe game..it would be like everquest 2, full of zones and loading screens.

they took over yes, and made it better. Yet people still have a problem simply because SOE are involved? It makes no sense.

ronan32 · July 2008

Originally posted by Locklain

Originally posted by ronan32

Originally posted by morpin

What they did to the SWG customers I will never forgive nor forget. It has been much discussed so I wont bother.
I hope they have learned their lesson.
I really enjoy playing Vanguard. To me not playing the game would be like cutting off my nose to smite my face.

soe did not make vanguard..they took it over from sigil. Vanguard would not be as free and open if it were originally a soe game..it would be like everquest 2, full of zones and loading screens.

Its a good thing you know this as a FACT isn't that right? For all you know Vanguard could have taken all of WoW's subs if SOE developed it.

now you're really in fantasy mode..i would put my house on that never happening with any Soe game. All Soe want to do with their games is make wow clones, look what they did to swg after wow came out..what a great innovative company

Da1e · July 2008

Originally posted by ronan32

Originally posted by Da1e

.

at least my sig doesn't say "im way too cool", your sig makes you sound like an idiot . You obviously do care about my opinion since you took the time out from your Soe loving to reply ..

I'm incredibly cool, I don't really mind what people think about that since no-one here knows me. Would you prefer something really mature like 'don't listen to ronan32's posts' or 'don't play whatver game ronan32 plays' ?Something on par with yours?

I used the title 'i love soe' to make a point. My reply of '.' was beacuse I double posted.

Scrogdog1 · July 2008

Well, this is interesting. While I count myself firmly in the “not a fan of SOE” camp, I think a discussion of why this is so might be helpful to the OP.

Firstly, you left out how SOE also destroyed EQ1. You mentioned the destruction of SWG. Now, you take those two games and add in Ultima Online, and in the opinion of many, I’ve just mentioned the three finest mmogs that ever lived. And SOE killed two of them.

To say that because SOE destroyed SWG that doesn’t make them bad only signifies to us that were present in the game while CU and NGE were forced upon us that you were not among us. No offense, but you kinda had to be there.

It is one thing to change a game. It is another to continually lie about what you are going to do or have done. The fact is that they had many grandiose but untested plans. And they fell on their face quite badly during implementation. Then, typically, SOE devs would go in to a period of denial if not flat out lies to deflect reality away from their sorry arses.

They’d make promises and either not keep them, or implement them so badly that the game ended up worse, not better. This they did all in search of the mass market dollar.

The other side of that, of course, is that as a business man myself, I can certainly understand going for the profits. Else you don’t stay in business and provide games of any kind.

SOE knows they screwed the puppy. In fact, through these very forums I read a post by a former SOE dev that admitted that while the numbers did support the actions that they wanted to take, they didn’t count on the reaction of the player base.

The fact that their plans blew up in their face, I suppose, should be punishment enough. Perhaps it is time to lay off them a bit. Heck, I make mistakes, sometimes doozies, just like anyone else. It would not be very fun to be constantly reminded of those mistakes rather than being forgiven.

Still, there is part of me that will always consider the SOE devs as not very good devs, for the simple reason that it was not just the change itself but HOW they changed it, and then how they told every bold-faced lie in the book to deflect the blame away from where it squarely belonged.

I think part of the issue is that many old timers like me are mad.

We are mad that there is only one mindset being catered to in the genre at this time. Maybe I should be mad at Blizzard instead for creating this “chase me” environment.

But when it gets right down to it, EQ1 still lives. It just sucks now. It’s hard to escape the idea that had SWG and EQ1 been left alone, that I could be playing a perfectly good mmog that has features that I would enjoy that happens to be co-existing perfectly fine with WoW. So what if they didn’t have the numbers of WoW? They also don’t have them now due to failed experiments. And yet, both games are still living (though I think we all expect that the complete demise of SWG is just around the corner). Just think: they could be still living in the pristine state of the original games, and probably have a much higher sub base for both games. Unfortunately, such 20/20 hindsight is seldom useful.

All in all, what has happened with SOE over the years has not been good for either us or them. Only time will tell whether they truly have learned their lesson or not. For now, I remain the “guy who left Vanguard upon the news of SOE taking over”, and I was most certainly not alone. I mean, I didn’t wait to see what happened, I dumped the game on the same day the announcement was made.

I think there is probably more than a little “righteous” anger going on here as well. We told them what they were doing would destroy the game. And we were right. Take that you evil devs, we’ll never let you forget!!!!! Hehehe….

Da1e · July 2008

Originally posted by ronan32

Originally posted by Locklain

Originally posted by ronan32

Originally posted by morpin

What they did to the SWG customers I will never forgive nor forget. It has been much discussed so I wont bother.
I hope they have learned their lesson.
I really enjoy playing Vanguard. To me not playing the game would be like cutting off my nose to smite my face.

soe did not make vanguard..they took it over from sigil. Vanguard would not be as free and open if it were originally a soe game..it would be like everquest 2, full of zones and loading screens.

Its a good thing you know this as a FACT isn't that right? For all you know Vanguard could have taken all of WoW's subs if SOE developed it.

now you're really in fantasy mode..i would put my house on that never happening with any Soe game.

maybe, maybe not. the fact is that you don't KNOW. You're just assuming that old habits die hard, so to speak.

morpin · July 2008

Originally posted by ronan32

Originally posted by morpin

What they did to the SWG customers I will never forgive nor forget. It has been much discussed so I wont bother.
I hope they have learned their lesson.
I really enjoy playing Vanguard. To me not playing the game would be like cutting off my nose to smite my face.

soe did not make vanguard..they took it over from sigil. Vanguard would not be as free and open if it were originally a soe game..it would be like everquest 2, full of zones and loading screens.

Yes the original concept was Sigils. SOE has completely stablized the game and probably rewritten every method and object in the code base. They have had to cut out some of Brad's vision for the game, but I think they have kept most of the corerect direction. So yes I like what SOE has done with Vanguard... I like it very much.

I am also seeing incredible dialogue from the Vanguard developers and they really seem to care and listen to the community. I have never seen this level of communication and openess.

I guess my point is that I can understand why people still hate SOE. I can understand why they will never play another SOE game again.

For me its different. I got over the NGE and moved on. The whole NGE thing was ultimately not that important to me, but for some it still is... the NGE fiasco was that bad.

Locklain · July 2008

Originally posted by ronan32

now you're really in fantasy mode..i would put my house on that never happening with any Soe game.

Fantasy mode eh? Your conjectures are no different than mine. I have no proof just as you have none. Since Vanguard was not developed by SOE no one knows (that includes you Mr. Allknowing) what it could have done or what it couldn't have.

ronan32 · July 2008

Originally posted by Da1e

Originally posted by ronan32

Originally posted by Locklain

Originally posted by ronan32

Originally posted by morpin

What they did to the SWG customers I will never forgive nor forget. It has been much discussed so I wont bother.
I hope they have learned their lesson.
I really enjoy playing Vanguard. To me not playing the game would be like cutting off my nose to smite my face.

soe did not make vanguard..they took it over from sigil. Vanguard would not be as free and open if it were originally a soe game..it would be like everquest 2, full of zones and loading screens.

Its a good thing you know this as a FACT isn't that right? For all you know Vanguard could have taken all of WoW's subs if SOE developed it.

now you're really in fantasy mode..i would put my house on that never happening with any Soe game.

maybe, maybe not. the fact is that you don't KNOW. You're just assuming that old habits die hard, so to speak.

I'm not against you dude, im against Soe, if this offends well too bad..if you woke up one day and discovered that the game you are paying for is now a totally different game..you would be pissed too..example if you had a character in wow that was a lvl 70 warrior, and you log in one day to find out that the warrior class was gone and you were left with a lvl 1 character and had to choose from 5 new classes..you would not be happy with that company would you.

ronan32 · July 2008

Originally posted by Locklain

Originally posted by ronan32

now you're really in fantasy mode..i would put my house on that never happening with any Soe game.

Fantasy mode eh? Your conjectures are no different than mine. I have no proof just as you have none. Since Vanguard was not developed by SOE no one knows (that includes you Mr. Allknowing) what it could have done or what it couldn't have.

hence why i said fantasy mode, because its just speculating. I find it funny that you get offended by my dislike of Soe.

Da1e · July 2008

Originally posted by Scrogdog1

Well, this is interesting. While I count myself firmly in the “not a fan of SOE” camp, I think a discussion of why this is so might be helpful to the OP.

Firstly, you left out how SOE also destroyed EQ1. You mentioned the destruction of SWG. Now, you take those two games and add in Ultima Online, and in the opinion of many, I’ve just mentioned the three finest mmogs that ever lived. And SOE killed two of them.

To say that because SOE destroyed SWG that doesn’t make them bad only signifies to us that were present in the game while CU and NGE were forced upon us that you were not among us. No offense, but you kinda had to be there.

It is one thing to change a game. It is another to continually lie about what you are going to do or have done. The fact is that they had many grandiose but untested plans. And they fell on their face quite badly during implementation. Then, typically, SOE devs would go in to a period of denial if not flat out lies to deflect reality away from their sorry arses.

They’d make promises and either not keep them, or implement them so badly that the game ended up worse, not better. This they did all in search of the mass market dollar.

The other side of that, of course, is that as a business man myself, I can certainly understand going for the profits. Else you don’t stay in business and provide games of any kind.

SOE knows they screwed the puppy. In fact, through these very forums I read a post by a former SOE dev that admitted that while the numbers did support the actions that they wanted to take, they didn’t count on the reaction of the player base.

The fact that their plans blew up in their face, I suppose, should be punishment enough. Perhaps it is time to lay off them a bit. Heck, I make mistakes, sometimes doozies, just like anyone else. It would not be very fun to be constantly reminded of those mistakes rather than being forgiven.

Still, there is part of me that will always consider the SOE devs as not very good devs, for the simple reason that it was not just the change itself but HOW they changed it, and then how they told every bold-faced lie in the book to deflect the blame away from where it squarely belonged.

I think part of the issue is that many old timers like me are mad. J We are mad that there is only one mindset being catered to in the genre at this time. Maybe I should be mad at Blizzard instead for creating this “chase me” environment. J

But when it gets right down to it, EQ1 still lives. It just sucks now. It’s hard to escape the idea that had SWG and EQ1 been left alone, that I could be playing a perfectly good mmog that has features that I would enjoy that happens to be co-existing perfectly fine with WoW. So what if they didn’t have the numbers of WoW? They also don’t have them now due to failed experiments. And yet, both games are still living (though I think we all expect that the complete demise of SWG is just around the corner). Just think: they could be still living in the pristine state of the original games, and probably have a much higher sub base for both games. Unfortunately, such 20/20 hindsight is seldom useful.

All in all, what has happened with SOE over the years has not been good for either us or them. Only time will tell whether they truly have learned their lesson or not. For now, I remain the “guy who left Vanguard upon the news of SOE taking over”, and I was most certainly not alone. I mean, I didn’t wait to see what happened, I dumped the game on the same day the announcement was made.

I think there is probably more than a little “righteous” anger going on here as well. We told them what they were doing would destroy the game. And we were right. Take that you evil devs, we’ll never let you forget!!!!! Hehehe….

made for a good read, and finally the first real reason I can empathise with,

but my argument still stands.

Although I may have 'had to be there' , it helps that I wasn't. I'm one that hasn't had the experience of any plunders, so my argument is unbiased. I'm playing Vanguard atm, and no disrespect, but you're silly for letting it go just for the reason of SoE taking over. Fair enough they ruined your old favourites (although I have read mixed reactions about EQ1, which is why I missed that off my list) , it means they are likely to have learned their 'lesson'.

It still remains, fair enough being sore against a company, but there is absolutely no use spreading the hate and letting it cloud your judgement on new games, as you may find you are missing out on brilliant games (VG being one).

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