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I sincerely hope...

JonsusJonsus Member UncommonPosts: 175

...that the WAR dev staff takes a good long look at how Funcom is running AoC into the ground and make notes of the following things.

1) Communicate changes/fixes/content updates accurately to your customerbase. No incomplete patch notes, no ninja nerfs/changes, no unannounced downtimes. When you nerf/buff something in the game, give reasons as to why so that people understand the change. Communication between a company and its customers is VERY important.

2) Dont make promises you cant keep. Many players I know have quit simply because Funcom has promised them things and has failed to deliver, on timelines that they themselves set. This goes hand in hand with communicating with your customerbase. Do not tell them things/promise things that are simply not true or will not happen.

3) Fix the game before you tamper with class balance. A huge mistake made by the Funcom staff is that they are trying to balance classes while the game is still poorly optimized. Work on things like memory leaks/server stability/basic core game stuff before you start tweaking classes. Its natural for a PvP game's customers to cry out for class balance, but FFS, ignore the whiners who will inevitably surface, at least until the game is completely stable clientwise/serverwise.

 

At the rate that people are becoming bored with AoC's lack of mid-high-endgame content and completely worthless PvP system (no rewards/risk to mention). I believe that the game will be a ghosttown come November unless Funcom makes some MASSIVE changes, which at the rate theyve been going, and the direction theyve been heading, seem to be a pipedream of the fanboiz and fangurlz.

I had very high hopes for AoC and they lasted up until I hit level 20.

I hope that WAR does not disappoint in the same way.

Comments

  • Moogleboy13Moogleboy13 Member Posts: 147

    From what I remember of DAoC, Mythic was pretty good with not making promises they couldn't keep.  I remember hearing about things they wanted to have but couldn't (e.g. Jousting) but they didn't make any promises they didn't keep (in my memory at least).  As for nerfing, I remember a lot of that but I also remember that for the sake of balancing issues.  And I can't remember any unexplained downtime.

    That being said, I really hope WAR doesn't disappoint.  From what I've seen I'm rather excited, and with them pushing the game back a few times (Think it was originally planned to be out by last Christmas, I may be wrong though) I'm confident they're buffing out issues to make an MMO without a flop of a launch.

  • SorninSornin Member Posts: 1,133
    Originally posted by Moogleboy13


    (Think it was originally planned to be out by last Christmas, I may be wrong though)

    WAR was originally intended to be released in Q3 of 2007, I believe. It has been pushed back about three times now. To be honest, their first estimate was so insanely optimistic it could not be taken seriously. To their credit, it was only an estimate, but it would have meant developing a AAA MMORPG in about two years from basically scratch, discounting a supplied IP and licensed engine, which does not necessarily speed up the process. In fact, having to stick to lore can slow things down.

    As for points of worry, EA Mythic has been extremely transparent regarding WAR, so I would not worry about incomplete notes and hidden buffs/nerfs too much. I am in beta and, having been in quite a few before, can attest to the fact that the developers and everyone else who is involved directly with the community is very open, responsive, and honest. I do not expect this to change in retail.

    As for broken promises, thus far I do not think EA Mythic has stuck their foot in their mouths, discounting their estimated release dates, which were only estimates, and ultimately the delays end up allowing the game to be better. There are not too many promised features that have been dropped after being built up as a selling point for the game. EA Mythic seems to be rather careful about waiting until they know something will be in before announcing it. Funcom said a little bit too much about things like sieges and such that ended up being almost blatant lies.

    I cannot really comment too much on the last one, except to say that the WAR  is not nearly as ambitious nor as hungry as AoC in terms of graphics, so already stability in comparison should be better. I expect the game to launch in a very playable state with very few bugs that break/lag/crash the game. Balance will certainly see tweaks, but the game should at least run.

    image

  • bmcinvaillebmcinvaille Member Posts: 209

    Yeah like everyone else has said I think most features they mention are in game. And the stuff that wasn't going to be the quickly said it would be delayed (off the top of my head the sizing of Orcs as they grew). There release dates as they said were "set in mud" although this new release of fall is more solid mud (I actually do expect them to make this time window its the perfect time as to beat WOW expansion to market and such). And from what I hear the dev team is very open with the beta testers and also I hear they take there complaints and such to heart when making changes if they see something isn't working for a good deal of people then they change it. They seem (to me at least) to wanna make a great game that everyone can enjoy.

    image

  • LeucentLeucent Member Posts: 2,371
    Originally posted by Sornin

    Originally posted by Moogleboy13


    (Think it was originally planned to be out by last Christmas, I may be wrong though)

    WAR was originally intended to be released in Q3 of 2007, I believe. It has been pushed back about three times now. To be honest, their first estimate was so insanely optimistic it could not be taken seriously. To their credit, it was only an estimate, but it would have meant developing a AAA MMORPG in about two years from basically scratch, discounting a supplied IP and licensed engine, which does not necessarily speed up the process. In fact, having to stick to lore can slow things down.

    As for points of worry, EA Mythic has been extremely transparent regarding WAR, so I would not worry about incomplete notes and hidden buffs/nerfs too much. I am in beta and, having been in quite a few before, can attest to the fact that the developers and everyone else who is involved directly with the community is very open, responsive, and honest. I do not expect this to change in retail.

    As for broken promises, thus far I do not think EA Mythic has stuck their foot in their mouths, discounting their estimated release dates, which were only estimates, and ultimately the delays end up allowing the game to be better. There are not too many promised features that have been dropped after being built up as a selling point for the game. EA Mythic seems to be rather careful about waiting until they know something will be in before announcing it. Funcom said a little bit too much about things like sieges and such that ended up being almost blatant lies.

    I cannot really comment too much on the last one, except to say that the WAR  is not nearly as ambitious nor as hungry as AoC in terms of graphics, so already stability in comparison should be better. I expect the game to launch in a very playable state with very few bugs that break/lag/crash the game. Balance will certainly see tweaks, but the game should at least run.



     

    What he said:) I m in beta as well and i have never seen a dev team so openly involves with what we have to say. That said there will be issues i m sure, but i can honestly say this game could have released at last release date and been better then most games out now. I truly am glad they did delay though because it s turning out to be a gem of a game.

  • JonsusJonsus Member UncommonPosts: 175

    Awesome, thanks guys!

    Ive been burned so may times by raising my hopes for MMOs in dev stages only to have them dashed at release. See -> Vanguard, HG:L, AoC... etc. ( Though in their defense, Vanguard and HG:L have shaped up pretty well and are now playable. Currently playing HG:L and having lots of fun  )

    Im placing alot of hope on WAR and by what ive seen written from most beta testers (even a few NDA breakers im afraid to say  hehe) its shaping up quite nicely.

    Hell, as long as they release with stable servers, a client that dosent crash, and no major core gameplay glitches, ill probably still have a blast.

    I just dont want them to make the same stupid mistakes ive seen other dev teams make over and over in the past... you would think that people would flippin learn how NOT to run/launch an MMO after seeing fiascos like AO/DnL/HG:L/Vanguard/AoC releases.

  • Moogleboy13Moogleboy13 Member Posts: 147

    Yeah well I think we're all in the same boat as you there, my friend.

  • MajinashMajinash Member Posts: 1,320

    They bragged about having orcs grow physically when they level up.  They won't have this in at launch (or at all, but so far they've just said at launch).  So I think they are being pretty honest about included features.  Come launch I don't think we will find much missing that hasn't already been pointed out.

     

    but its been pushed back a lot.  I just want to get my hands on the game and wouldn't mind playing through a few bugs right now, so I hope it doesn't get pushed back anymore... which I don't think will happen anyway.

    Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.

  • Capn23Capn23 Member Posts: 1,529
    Originally posted by Majinash


    They bragged about having orcs grow physically when they level up.  They won't have this in at launch (or at all, but so far they've just said at launch).  So I think they are being pretty honest about included features.  Come launch I don't think we will find much missing that hasn't already been pointed out.
     
    but its been pushed back a lot.  I just want to get my hands on the game and wouldn't mind playing through a few bugs right now, so I hope it doesn't get pushed back anymore... which I don't think will happen anyway.



     

    They can delay it as much as they want, just as long as the game is fantastic. I don't want this game to suck because of a few little issues. I just hope an pray that it isn't too buggy and the lag isn't terrible. I'm expecting Mythic to just fine though.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!

  • It may sound strange, but I regard pushing the release back as a good thing. It would have been easy to release the game early to compete with AoC. I'd prefer it be released correctly and completely rather than paying to beta test the game the first few months after release. Don't get me wrong, I'd love the game to be out this fall, or at least by Christmas, but if it has to wait, it has to wait.

  • tr289tr289 Member Posts: 236
    Originally posted by Sawtooth


    It may sound strange, but I regard pushing the release back as a good thing. It would have been easy to release the game early to compete with AoC. I'd prefer it be released correctly and completely rather than paying to beta test the game the first few months after release. Don't get me wrong, I'd love the game to be out this fall, or at least by Christmas, but if it has to wait, it has to wait.

     

    WAR is not finished . it still needs some work . i can assure you that you wont be paying to beta test this game though !   like i said before the game still needs some work but Mythic could release WAR tomorrow and it would be in better shape then AOC .

     

     

  • rlf0331rlf0331 Member Posts: 25

    From what I've read by Beta Testers and Beta Videos I've seen, the game is very playable/enjoyable NOW! So everything thing else changed/added from now on is icing on the cake.

  • StuntyCrushaStuntyCrusha Member UncommonPosts: 108

    The PC gaming community has really been getting screwed lately with companies thinking it's okay to release half finished products and just patching things up after the fact. 

    I really think WAR is poised to raise the bar for the industry and gamers in general should be grateful for it. 

  • huxflux2004huxflux2004 Member Posts: 730

    There is no worst thing than being close to launch for 2 years. The first release date was early 2007 I think. Which means that since early 2006 these guys are constantly about to launch. Deadly...

  • MajinashMajinash Member Posts: 1,320
    Originally posted by huxflux2004


    There is no worst thing than being close to launch for 2 years. The first release date was early 2007 I think. Which means that since early 2006 these guys are constantly about to launch. Deadly...

     

    launching before its ready is worse... like AoC.  and how is the first release date in early 2007 mean that they are ready to launch in early 2006?

    Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.

  • huxflux2004huxflux2004 Member Posts: 730
    Originally posted by Majinash

    Originally posted by huxflux2004


    There is no worst thing than being close to launch for 2 years. The first release date was early 2007 I think. Which means that since early 2006 these guys are constantly about to launch. Deadly...

     

    launching before its ready is worse... like AoC.  and how is the first release date in early 2007 mean that they are ready to launch in early 2006?

    Maybe not early 2006 but mid-2006 for sure. During the last months the development methodology changes. No new stuff should go in. And if they push new stuff or changes in, then these will probably be buggy, incomplete, untested, unbalanced and affect other stuff as well. And this shit piles up, during all the months close to launch. The result is that the game will feel as if it was "not ready for launch" in the end. And don't forget that WAR had to pull the plug during last years beta, because it sucked gameplay wise. Which means lots of changes. Close to launch.

     

    Kudos to Blizzard and their reluctancy to announce dates. That way the teams work as they should. No panic, no hacks to get stuff in quickly. And when they announce a date, the game is already finished. Some bugfixes and polish are always welcome, but the game is totally enjoyable. And EA-Mythic is not going that way. They are going more like the AoC way. Date - delay, date - delay, date - delay.

  • PureChaosPureChaos Member Posts: 839
    Originally posted by huxflux2004

    Originally posted by Majinash

    Originally posted by huxflux2004


    There is no worst thing than being close to launch for 2 years. The first release date was early 2007 I think. Which means that since early 2006 these guys are constantly about to launch. Deadly...

     

    launching before its ready is worse... like AoC.  and how is the first release date in early 2007 mean that they are ready to launch in early 2006?

    Maybe not early 2006 but mid-2006 for sure. During the last months the development methodology changes. No new stuff should go in. And if they push new stuff or changes in, then these will probably be buggy, incomplete, untested, unbalanced and affect other stuff as well. And this shit piles up, during all the months close to launch. The result is that the game will feel as if it was "not ready for launch" in the end. And don't forget that WAR had to pull the plug during last years beta, because it sucked gameplay wise. Which means lots of changes. Close to launch.

     

    Kudos to Blizzard and their reluctancy to announce dates. That way the teams work as they should. No panic, no hacks to get stuff in quickly. And when they announce a date, the game is already finished. Some bugfixes and polish are always welcome, but the game is totally enjoyable. And EA-Mythic is not going that way. They are going more like the AoC way. Date - delay, date - delay, date - delay.

    are you serious? BLIZZARD IS THE KING of having absolutely no date possible. Dont even get me started with there past games. WOW is the only one who hasnt had this, but past games with blizzard, talk about ?????????????

    Dont know why people are so omg dates and delays. It happens, you have played more then 1 game you know how it works, wait till it says its golden, i have a good fealing that this date is the one since they are moving forward in beta phases.

    image

  • huxflux2004huxflux2004 Member Posts: 730
    Originally posted by PureChaos

    Originally posted by huxflux2004

    Originally posted by Majinash

    Originally posted by huxflux2004


    There is no worst thing than being close to launch for 2 years. The first release date was early 2007 I think. Which means that since early 2006 these guys are constantly about to launch. Deadly...

     

    launching before its ready is worse... like AoC.  and how is the first release date in early 2007 mean that they are ready to launch in early 2006?

    Maybe not early 2006 but mid-2006 for sure. During the last months the development methodology changes. No new stuff should go in. And if they push new stuff or changes in, then these will probably be buggy, incomplete, untested, unbalanced and affect other stuff as well. And this shit piles up, during all the months close to launch. The result is that the game will feel as if it was "not ready for launch" in the end. And don't forget that WAR had to pull the plug during last years beta, because it sucked gameplay wise. Which means lots of changes. Close to launch.

     

    Kudos to Blizzard and their reluctancy to announce dates. That way the teams work as they should. No panic, no hacks to get stuff in quickly. And when they announce a date, the game is already finished. Some bugfixes and polish are always welcome, but the game is totally enjoyable. And EA-Mythic is not going that way. They are going more like the AoC way. Date - delay, date - delay, date - delay.

    are you serious? BLIZZARD IS THE KING of having absolutely no date possible. Dont even get me started with there past games. WOW is the only one who hasnt had this, but past games with blizzard, talk about ?????????????

    Thats exactly what I am saying man. You are either taking drugs, or my english is very bad!!!

    Dont know why people are so omg dates and delays. It happens, you have played more then 1 game you know how it works, wait till it says its golden, i have a good fealing that this date is the one since they are moving forward in beta phases

     

  • Moogleboy13Moogleboy13 Member Posts: 147
    Originally posted by huxflux2004

    Originally posted by Majinash

    Originally posted by huxflux2004


    There is no worst thing than being close to launch for 2 years. The first release date was early 2007 I think. Which means that since early 2006 these guys are constantly about to launch. Deadly...

     

    launching before its ready is worse... like AoC.  and how is the first release date in early 2007 mean that they are ready to launch in early 2006?

    Maybe not early 2006 but mid-2006 for sure. During the last months the development methodology changes. No new stuff should go in. And if they push new stuff or changes in, then these will probably be buggy, incomplete, untested, unbalanced and affect other stuff as well. And this shit piles up, during all the months close to launch. The result is that the game will feel as if it was "not ready for launch" in the end. And don't forget that WAR had to pull the plug during last years beta, because it sucked gameplay wise. Which means lots of changes. Close to launch.

     

    Kudos to Blizzard and their reluctancy to announce dates. That way the teams work as they should. No panic, no hacks to get stuff in quickly. And when they announce a date, the game is already finished. Some bugfixes and polish are always welcome, but the game is totally enjoyable. And EA-Mythic is not going that way. They are going more like the AoC way. Date - delay, date - delay, date - delay.

     

     

    *sighs* Hey kid, you think Bliz is the king of releasing games?  Well I have two words for you: Starcraft Ghost.

  • MajinashMajinash Member Posts: 1,320

    I thought the AoC way was Date- release half finished game?

    Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.

  • PheacePheace Member Posts: 2,408
    Originally posted by Moogleboy13

    Originally posted by huxflux2004

    Originally posted by Majinash

    Originally posted by huxflux2004


    There is no worst thing than being close to launch for 2 years. The first release date was early 2007 I think. Which means that since early 2006 these guys are constantly about to launch. Deadly...

     

    launching before its ready is worse... like AoC.  and how is the first release date in early 2007 mean that they are ready to launch in early 2006?

    Maybe not early 2006 but mid-2006 for sure. During the last months the development methodology changes. No new stuff should go in. And if they push new stuff or changes in, then these will probably be buggy, incomplete, untested, unbalanced and affect other stuff as well. And this shit piles up, during all the months close to launch. The result is that the game will feel as if it was "not ready for launch" in the end. And don't forget that WAR had to pull the plug during last years beta, because it sucked gameplay wise. Which means lots of changes. Close to launch.

     

    Kudos to Blizzard and their reluctancy to announce dates. That way the teams work as they should. No panic, no hacks to get stuff in quickly. And when they announce a date, the game is already finished. Some bugfixes and polish are always welcome, but the game is totally enjoyable. And EA-Mythic is not going that way. They are going more like the AoC way. Date - delay, date - delay, date - delay.

     

     

    *sighs* Hey kid, you think Bliz is the king of releasing games?  Well I have two words for you: Starcraft Ghost.

     

    What does a cancelled (or shelved anyway) game have to with what he's saying? He's talking about the way they do it :)

    image

  • huxflux2004huxflux2004 Member Posts: 730
    Originally posted by Moogleboy13

    Originally posted by huxflux2004

    Originally posted by Majinash

    Originally posted by huxflux2004


    There is no worst thing than being close to launch for 2 years. The first release date was early 2007 I think. Which means that since early 2006 these guys are constantly about to launch. Deadly...

     

    launching before its ready is worse... like AoC.  and how is the first release date in early 2007 mean that they are ready to launch in early 2006?

    Maybe not early 2006 but mid-2006 for sure. During the last months the development methodology changes. No new stuff should go in. And if they push new stuff or changes in, then these will probably be buggy, incomplete, untested, unbalanced and affect other stuff as well. And this shit piles up, during all the months close to launch. The result is that the game will feel as if it was "not ready for launch" in the end. And don't forget that WAR had to pull the plug during last years beta, because it sucked gameplay wise. Which means lots of changes. Close to launch.

     

    Kudos to Blizzard and their reluctancy to announce dates. That way the teams work as they should. No panic, no hacks to get stuff in quickly. And when they announce a date, the game is already finished. Some bugfixes and polish are always welcome, but the game is totally enjoyable. And EA-Mythic is not going that way. They are going more like the AoC way. Date - delay, date - delay, date - delay.

     

     

    *sighs* Hey kid, you think Bliz is the king of releasing games?  Well I have two words for you: Starcraft Ghost.

     

    I am a troll. But not for this post. I think I make a very valid point here. As for Ghost, yes they cancelled. But at least they never announced a release date. When you hear a realease date from Bliz you know that at that day you are going to have fun, playing a finished game.

  • Tawn47Tawn47 Member Posts: 512
    Originally posted by huxflux2004

    Kudos to Blizzard and their reluctancy to announce dates. That way the teams work as they should. No panic, no hacks to get stuff in quickly. And when they announce a date, the game is already finished. Some bugfixes and polish are always welcome, but the game is totally enjoyable. And EA-Mythic is not going that way. They are going more like the AoC way. Date - delay, date - delay, date - delay.

     

    I don't know about the gaming industry, but I do know a little about project management and my understanding is that having a deadline (even if it is not met) is better than having no deadline at all.

    I doubt a deadline is ever met in the building industry - but things would drag and take a lot longer if no dates were set at all.

    I do understand that dealines could be kept internally...  but remember that announced deadlines are a marketing strategy.

    Nearly all MMO's set a release date and then delay the product.  I think this is a way of keeping the game in the headlines - if people dont hear anything for a long time they start to wonder if its vapourware.

  • Silverthorn8Silverthorn8 Member UncommonPosts: 510

    I'm just waiting to play a game where out of combat my weapons don't just stick to my back magically. 

    As much as blizz are adding some sweet new content to the new xp which may bring me back to wow temporarily. I want something a tad more gritty to sink my teeth into.

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