Does anyone care about graphics?

joereed1

I think if developers spent less money worrying about how shiny the graphics were on a game and spent more on actually making the game better everyone would be happier.

For example the graphics for WOW are fairly simple and cartoony and yet it has a huge number of subs. There are plenty of people on this forum that play older MMO's that have out dated graphics and don't seem to care. No game that has come out since WOW with fancy graphics has come close to the number of subs that WOW has.

From this I conclude that graphics don't matter as much as the developers seem to think they do, at least in mmo's.

Bane82

"realistic" looking graphics, at least in characters like in EQ2 or VG personally are not my thing. Maybe it's because SOE doesn't know how to do them properly, they end up making them look like walking mannequins, and even end up making them walk like stiff mannequins. I don't know, maybe its just me, but personally I would preffer models that are more stylized, and don't try to be too realistic or try to take themselves too seriously. It is a game after all.

Nightsorrow

MMORPG is supposed to be a long term game type, where no matter how good the graphics it, it will get outdated, or we players will get used to it and have no feeling after many many days of playing. So I agree that instead of making extremely cool graphics MMORPG, they should focus on gameplay. (although WoW's success is due to other reasons not the gameplay imo)

Of course, when it doesn't need to be extremely cool graphics, it must not be bad graphics, just make it "acceptable".

Another reason is that, for MMORPG, the larger player base the better, so"acceptable" level of graphics will have much higher potential player base than "extremely cool" graphics because general players, no matter hardcore or casual, don't have a wonderful computer to run your extremely cool graphics MMORPG, or at least not smoothly.

snowytechna

Originally posted by joereed1


I think if developers spent less money worrying about how shiny the graphics were on a game and spent more on actually making the game better everyone would be happier.
For example the graphics for WOW are fairly simple and cartoony and yet it has a huge number of subs. There are plenty of people on this forum that play older MMO's that have out dated graphics and don't seem to care. No game that has come out since WOW with fancy graphics has come close to the number of subs that WOW has.
From this I conclude that graphics don't matter as much as the developers seem to think they do, at least in mmo's.

 

They need to learn from AreaNet..Guild Wars graphics are not like AOC but they are more than acceptable and the gameplay is way better.

I still play UO and Ragnarok Online......They have low poly 2d graphics but the gameplay is better than any game out there IMO.

So yea Gameplay is way more important and Devs dont understand that.....Sheesh.....They should visit this site more often and read the forums.....

gurugeorge

Originally posted by joereed1


I think if developers spent less money worrying about how shiny the graphics were on a game and spent more on actually making the game better everyone would be happier.

 

LOL in view of the fact that making good graphics is hard and takes up lots of man hours, I think if there weren't a demand for great graphics from the buying public, developers would gladly spend less time on them.  So the answer to your question is: obviously yes.

For most people gameplay is first and always will be first.  But for most people, graphics and sound aren't far behind.  I can forgive a game if it has great gameplay but slightly under par graphics; I can't play a game if it has crap graphics and only decent gameplay, whereas a game with decent gameplay and great graphics is playable.

Graphics (and to great extent sound too) partly stand for immersion i suppose, and immersion is a big requirement in games.  Otherwise we'd all still be playing Pong, which is a perfectly balanced game with great gameplay.

I know I only really got into videogames when Doom came along.  For the first time, here was a game in which there was some sense of being somewhere else that was starting to be realistically represented on the screen.  I wasn't sufficient of a gamer, per se, to be interested in them before then.  Having been attracted by graphics, I've become a gamer and enjoy gameplay very much, but I'm still basically an immersionist at heart.

Judging by the rising popoularity of games as the graphics get better, I think most people are more like that - they want to feel like they're in an alternative world, and want to see it realised on the screen in fabulous detail.

 

snowytechna

Originally posted by joereed1


I think if developers spent less money worrying about how shiny the graphics were on a game and spent more on actually making the game better everyone would be happier.
For example the graphics for WOW are fairly simple and cartoony and yet it has a huge number of subs. There are plenty of people on this forum that play older MMO's that have out dated graphics and don't seem to care. No game that has come out since WOW with fancy graphics has come close to the number of subs that WOW has.
From this I conclude that graphics don't matter as much as the developers seem to think they do, at least in mmo's.

 

They need to learn from AreaNet..Guild Wars graphics are not like AOC but they are more than acceptable and the gameplay is way better.

I still play UO and Ragnarok Online......They have low poly 2d graphics but the gameplay is better than any game out there IMO.

So yea Gameplay is way more important and Devs dont understand that.....Sheesh.....They should visit this site more often and read the forums.....

Graphics do matter they should be acceptable(WoW graphics are good enough for me) but gameplay is 100 times more important.

Plus graphic intensive games are laggy and are often bugged(Except LOTRO).....So yea there are many more things which are more important than graphics.

jonaylward

The actual graphics take a backseat to both world design and something that just about every developer overlooks... *animation*

I can't play Vanguard or EQ2, because the animations are *terrible* (like... "*I* can do better than that" terrible), while I can't stand WoW's Art Direction (I prefer the semi-realism of EQ2/Vanguard/Age of Conan), but the animations sell it. The characters' movements (in WoW and AoC both) are *believable*. Believeability for the situation that the characters are in goes a long, long way, whether it's an MMO, or Street Fighter II.

DrChicken

Originally posted by joereed1


I think if developers spent less money worrying about how shiny the graphics were on a game and spent more on actually making the game better everyone would be happier.
For example the graphics for WOW are fairly simple and cartoony and yet it has a huge number of subs. There are plenty of people on this forum that play older MMO's that have out dated graphics and don't seem to care. No game that has come out since WOW with fancy graphics has come close to the number of subs that WOW has.
From this I conclude that graphics don't matter as much as the developers seem to think they do, at least in mmo's.

 

I completely agree with you. I find that the most important aspect concerning graphics in an MMO is the level of "immersion" that they offer. "Immersion" does not necessarily coincide with "realistic," it just gets you into the atmosphere of the setting. Games like WoW, for instance, immerse you in the whole Warcraft aspect of things, which I found to be awesome as a long time Warcraft fan (Warcraft since it's conception has involved cartoony graphics). Games can have what most consider to be "terrible" graphics, but in the long run it doesn't matter to me as long as I am immersed. In addition, some games have graphics that are counter-productive towards the "immersion" factor - AKA high hardware reqs that completely ruin the look of a game, thus ruining the perception towards that game. Just my two cents.

 

Moral of the story: "Immersion" does not equal "top notch" graphics in all cases.

Drafell

I prefer actual game play and design over graphics. Sure graphics give people the "Ooh" factor, but it's that game play that keeps people interested long term.

Khrymson

Course not...just figuring this out!?  Graphics will never make a game good or better!  Its always about the content and depth of play...I'm sure I've been saying this all over these forums!

DrChicken

Originally posted by Drafell


I prefer actual game play and design over graphics. Sure graphics give people the "Ooh" factor, but it's that game play that keeps people interested long term.

 

Yeah, but only to a certain extent. You can't completely rule out the graphical aspect of a game - if that is what you're aiming for, then you probably should go back to the 80s/90s and make some MUDs, all gameplay with no graphics.

CactusmanX

I agree, but not only does lower graphics let you focus on gameplay but also style, like Okami or Killer 7, where developers actually make their own graphical style.  It is like impressionist art, not realistic but it has a style all its own.

MarL

Good graphics dont make a game good but, bad graphics can keep people from trying it.

So yes graphics matter. Actually textures is what really makes games look good.

JustBe

Artisically yes, or I wouldn't enjoy the game because I want to be in a world that I like the look of and develop a character I think looks kool but technically no.........

Drafell

It's true. You cannot rule out the graphics. Sadly this is a large factor in attracting people to a game. If it looks poor graphically, then you will have trouble maintaining the initial curiosity, regardless of how good the game itself is.

One easy way to try and circumvent this to a degree is to go for a heavily stylistic approach. This is one of the big successes of WoW and games like Darwinia. They have a very stylistic approach to how various game aspects look, which can help reduce graphical complexity when creating new game assets.

The trick is in creating a balance that works for your target audience.

DrChicken

Originally posted by CactusmanX


I agree, but not only does lower graphics let you focus on gameplay but also style, like Okami or Killer 7, where developers actually make their own graphical style.  It is like impressionist art, not realistic but it has a style all its own.

 

Exactly. There's just a fine line between graphics and gameplay that you have to tread in order to keep that up. One of my main problems with the up-and-coming MMOs on the market is that they don't utilize custom-designed graphics engines - they're all just mimics and continuations of say, the Unreal engine, for instance? (One of the many) A good example I like to use is Homeworld 2 - I keep going back to that game, not because it has "uber-awesome graphics," but because it keeps me entertained with the gameplay. The graphic on HW2 are nothing to scoff at, though (that fine line yet again).

fyerwall

In an MMO uber graphics can be a bane, eg: AoC. If you spend your development resources to make a game graphically superior to others on the market, you end up with a game that alienates people due to system requirements. That and the game suffers from lack of depth, limited areas, instancing etc.

EQ2 went the uber graphics route back when it was being made, only to have the game run poorly on most systems of that time. Vanguard suffered this as well (aside from the whole managemnet of the game not having a solid idea of what they were trying to do).

Sure there will be some people who cry because a game has graphics that look similar to WoW or LOTRO or WAR, but in the end the game that is more forgiving on system requirements is the one who will have a larger playerbase. Graphical updates can happen over the life of a game, so it is smarter to start lower and then change with the tech instead of making a game with graphics that are ahead of the tech.

I would rather have a game that was more of an open world with ok graphics than a heavily sectioned/instanced game with Pixar quality graphics.

orlac

In the end, it's all about gameplay...

Drafell

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Originally posted by DrChicken
 
Exactly. There's just a fine line between graphics and gameplay that you have to tread in order to keep that up. One of my main problems with the up-and-coming MMOs on the market is that they don't utilize custom-designed graphics engines - they're all just mimics and continuations of say, the Unreal engine, for instance? (One of the many) A good example I like to use is Homeworld 2 - I keep going back to that game, not because it has "uber-awesome graphics," but because it keeps me entertained with the gameplay. The graphic on HW2 are nothing to scoff at, though (that fine line yet again).

---

Especially with some of the graphics mods available. Mhhmmm...

Although I still prefer HW 1.

DrChicken

Originally posted by fyerwall

I would rather have a game that was more of an open world with ok graphics than a heavily sectioned/instanced game with Pixar quality graphics.

 

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Nightbringe1

Originally posted by DrChicken

Originally posted by fyerwall

I would rather have a game that was more of an open world with ok graphics than a heavily sectioned/instanced game with Pixar quality graphics.

 

I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

QFT

While graphics are important for making a good first impression, good gameplay is what is going to keep players engaged.

Drafell

Tabula Rasa is another game which went the wrong route with regards to graphics. Its major downfall iss the lack of customer base with a system capable of running the game efficiently.

Alcuin

Graphics quality is far from the top of my list.

 

I wish they would re-do the original SSI Gold-Box style D&D games as MMOs (like the original NwN, I guess)

 

That was true character customization!  Well, kinda...

Kevyne-Shandris

Originally posted by Alcuin


Graphics quality is far from the top of my list.
 
I wish they would re-do the original SSI Gold-Box style D&D games as MMOs (like the original NwN, I guess)
 
That was true character customization!  Well, kinda...

 

lol

Want my 1988 copy of Pools of Radiance? Comes on 5.25" floppies.

In those days more time was spent trying to roll a high number, than playing the game!

Cephus404

I don't care about graphics at all.  I only care about the gameplay and the community.  If there was a fantastic game with a great community, I'd forego graphics entirely and play text-based in a second.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of shallow people who are only looking for eye-candy, you can find them posting on MMORPG all the time.  "Ooh, I want a game with great graphics.  Sure, the game sucks, but I want it to look good" 

nomadian

graphics do matter to an extent, through some games have a nice timeless style to them whereby they never date- and some games date pretty quickly. When you play some old games it can be quite painful the graphics. I like playing PS games but there are some that are really ugly now.