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I think 8.0 is low for this game
fraudemonax
Member Posts: 25
I think that a rating of 8.0 is slightly low for this game; so let me continue by giving a brief explanation of my MMORPG background, then my reasons for these comparisons.
I played Everquest a few years back... but was a late buyer of this game, therefore it never garnered much interest from me. Shortly after this... I bought Anarchy Online (which was a nice game), but for some reason lost interest in it. A few months went by, and I bought Star Wars Galaxies. At first I thought this game was the coolest thing to be released since the dawn of PacMan (sarcasm in retrospect), but then some really awful changes started to take place as deemed necessary by the developers. Not only this, but the game got really stale (missions, faction system, pvp/battle system, economy, guilds/society) as was represented by the huge drop in active online accounts. I was actually one of the last people in my pier group to drop the thing. During this time I played around with Dark Ages of Camelot (Very Nice Game, Excellent PvP system) and was impressed with some aspects of the game... but could really not get deeply into the game. I think it had something to do with the player base having been with the game for so long, and feeling a bit out of place as a noob, as well as the game feeling slighlty dated to me (graphically, as well as topically). At this point (Nov. 2003) I bought FFXI... and actually was very skeptical of this game at first. Some of my initial problems (which might seem superficial at first glance) were the controls of the game, the customizabillity of the screen and controls, and the overall feel of the environment (elementary and limited). During this time I also played a friend's copy of City of Heros... I never bought this game... uhm... I will not say more lest I insult those who are addicted to the game.
After having played this game for 10 months... i have come to the decision that this is the best MMORPG that I have played. Now this statement might mean nothing coming from a 12 year old who has never played any other MMORPG in his lifetime, but being a grown man capable of higher levels rational thought, and more gameplay experience to draw from... I believe that it might be harder to dismiss my opinion as a merely whimsical musing. This game has many very fine aspects to it... and they are as follows:
1) The Party System is well worked out. The activities of each player contribute effectively to the whole picture. If a player is not doing his job, it is easily noticed; and when you finish the party at the end of the day, one feels a bit of accomplishment if he contributes effectively to what was fulfilled (gaining lvls, finishing missions, acquiring fame, money or prizes). You also invariably have a choice of doing things solo (say, by being a bst, or even by subbing whm).
2) The economy is functionally efficient. The speed at which any one person makes money is almost completely dependent upon how much of a demand there is by other players for what you have to sell. Some people have complaints about how hard it is to make money (by way of lvling crafting, farming, camping mobs), but once you examine the many different ways there are to accumulate wealth, and then start experimenting with them, it becomes a rewarding enterprise to find your own monetary niche in the world of Vana'diel.
3) The character system is specific, yet flexible. In choosing any one of the races, you automatically set your self up for better success in some job choices rather than others. Yet, if your initial race choice is not ideal for a job (like say a taru drg) there are almost always some things that can be done to make yourself accel at this job (like take a sub of whm). Even with the more limited races, such as the Galka and the Taru, there are endless options open to them for the effective use of different jobs and skills.
4) There is an endless continuum of things to do in the FFXI world. If it is not the missions or quests that add to your Rank and Fame in the Vana'diel world; there are also endless other entertaining tasks than can be completed in the game. For example, in each dungeon there is a treasure chest key to be found on a specific set of mobs, which unlocks its own treasure chest that must be found. There are also endless numbers of NMs (Notorious Monsters) to be found and killed that each have their own list of rare items that can be dropped. On top of this, there are inexhaustible sections of territory to be discovered, each with their own maps that sometimes require the completion of quests in order for them to be granted to you. Not to mention the seasonal in-game events which supply even more activities to the unsuspecting Vana'diel wanderer.
5) The controls and the in-game interface is wonderful. So many options are open to the game player here when it comes to peripheral devices, and their effectuality on the nature of game play. After having played with the controls on this game... and then trying to go back to Star Wars for a week... I became surprised at how superior the FFXI interface is to the SWG controls. At first, it seems that one is granted so many more interface and control options on SWG; but no matter how much I tried, I could never get SWG to control the way i needed it to. On the contrary with FFXI; with this game, all that is needed is a PS2 adapter, or a control pad. If you are one of those old school gamers that hate game pads. The keyboard setup is extremely easy to get accustomed to as well.
6) Last but, not least, the overall feel of the game is spectacular. It is not the most graphically overwhelming game that you will play today, but the nature of Square/Enix's handling of the FFXI environment within the graphical guidlines that were set up for this title when it first came out, is beautiful. The game has such a 'finished' look and feel graphically (as well as in every other aspect), that I believe it will become an example to many other MMORPGs that are worming their way into the market.
Now, I know since I am posting this message on the FFXI portion of this discussion board I am prone to hear a high degree of agreement to my opinions, with the occasional disagreement on this topic or that topic (and a few flames judging by the forcefulnes of my statements). But be aware, I encourage anyone who would like to reply to disagree with me. I am eager to understand why a game that is so great in my eyes gets consistently outscored on this web site by games that I consider to be noticeably inferior. In fact, if you happen to agree with me, I would request that you not respond to this post. I want to understand the opposite point of view... which, to date, has not become lucid to my understanding. Perhaps I am blinded by my own unconditional love for this game.
fraudemonax
Comments
Wow... I was just thinking whether to continue playing FFXI or not (not high level yet). But you just made me like it more and understand more about it.
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I am amazed no flamer of FFXI has come by yet, perhaps they cannot argue with such a great post.
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Alright well I disagree entirely but I am not here to flame anyone. I have played several MMORPGs - listed
Currently Playing - Asheron's Call 2, World of Warcraft
Played: Nexus: Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, Asheron's Call 2, Star Wars Galaxies, FFXI
Beta Tested: Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, Wish, and Horizons
I found Final Fantasy XI to be my least favorite overall experience of online games next to Horizons. Of course you can have your opinion on how you view the game but basically I'm just doing it to point out flaws.
#1) Party System
Well I think in most games it is clearly evident if someone is not doing their job so I don't find this a terribly great argument for or against the game. FFXI really isn't designed for the solo player as much as it is for grouping, so I don't want to argue anything on that level either.
#2) The Economy
I do think that it was a bit of a struggle to actually make your own money in the game. It wasn't impossible, but for some people it just became too tedious or troublesome for them to bother. The point of crafting systems are for people to make things that they would enjoy making. Let's say (because I am no longer subscribed) a person really enjoyed cooking, but that was the least demanded tradeskill in the game. They aren't going to enjoy leatherworking nearly as much as cooking, and will lose some of that enjoyment by being forced to do that. People generally don't want to examine the entire economy as a whole to make the most money, but rather craft what they would enjoy the most. I don't think there is a positive or negative response to that because it really depends on your personal views on which situation is better.
3) Character System
If you are looking at a galka warrior and a taru warrior which one do you choose? That one is pretty easy and it severely limits the ability of people playing with tarus to play as a warrior. Basically I am referring to the paid slot per character and how that limits people from enjoying their character. The subjob is a huge timesink and I really don't think it adds to the game as much as it takes away through means of repetition. I definately wouldn't call it endless options because people are forced out of a group based on their race/class. This game is also overshadowed by many mmorpgs as far as endless options go because of all the extreme customization that can be done to a character's skills (EQ, AC, Ac2)
4) Anything addressed in this one
One thing I hated about this game were all of the endless things it featured such as:
repeating huge amounts of experience lossed to death penalty
fighting an orc with a different name for x levels
fighting a caterpillar with a different name for x levels (you get the idea)
I thought the quests were some of the worst out of any of the many mmorpgs that I have played and that was one of my biggest turn offs from this game. Asheron's Call 2 has the best quest system imaginable (yes, over WoW too) and many of the quests are innovative, challenging, contain puzzles, or chests. (if you disagree from months ago don't bother posting about it - this game is nothing like it was back then) The dungeon chests that you describe are very well.. disappointing. It isn't a matter of whether there is a chest.. but just where. That takes a lot of the exploration factor out of the dungeon. Ac2 has that also, but not in every dungeon, which I feel makes the reward better. Anything else other than the notorious monsters (really just like a mini boss I guess) can be found in most other mmorpgs. Ac2 even has season changes.
5) Interface and Controls
Probably one of my biggest things with this game was the awful interface and controls that this game had. Yes, I played the game long enough to adapt to it but it was still terrible. Star Wars Galaxies by far has a superior interface in both ease and quality compared to this game. Asheron's Call 2 has my favorite control system and the best camera system imaginable. The keyboard system was not easy to get accustomed to because it used so many akward button combinations to get to any of the small windows you were given to work with. "On the contrary with FFXI; with this game, all that is needed is a PS2 adapter, or a control pad. If you are one of those old school gamers that hate game pads. The keyboard setup is extremely easy to get accustomed to as well." Just more money to spend on this game that is working on its second expansion pack. Throw your money out the window for the next 7. Even the chat system in this game was poor because if you didn't press a button you would end up not being able to chat right away. The controls are probably the least customizable out of any mmo I have played. The interface and controls were some of the worst parts of this game for many people including myself.
6) Environment
Well, I'm not one to cut down on graphics but I will give my description of the environment. The environment handling is ok, although it feels too generic at times. The texture repetition is far too evident and some of the things just seem randomly placed without any specific meaning to it. I thought that many of the areas seemed bland and there was nothing that really attracted me to them and made me say, "woah I really want to explore this place". This is one of Ac2's biggest flaws also. If you want environmental design, check out WoW.
It is also too bad that they didn't care to implement an actual weather system where the elements could also spawn based on the weather patterns. What they did almost feels like the easy way out.
The situation with the ranking system is just a bunch of people voting highly for their games but terribly low for other games (most which they have never played). I too don't entirely agree on how the situation is, but we as individuals don't control it as much as the masses do.
I have never played City of Heroes but all of the things I have heard from them is the initial feeling of "Woah this game rocks" to "why did I buy this game" soon after.
Asheron's Call 1, although I have never played (kind of intend to) defined itself by breaking away from the typical Everquest setup and really defined itself with it's own system as well as being a pionerr in new content for no extra price (other than monthly fee).
EvE online is currently the best space mmorpg, but is probably suffering from a lack of players and the community is shouting out for visibilty.
Asheron's Call 2, although suffering from a poor release, poor chat system, bugs, and lack of content due to rushing done on Microsoft's end and plagued with a bad reputation throughout its lifetime is finally starting to make the turn for a rebound. Turbine is in control of almost all aspects of the game now and it is becoming comparable to AC in terms of innovatiion. Many of the votes were initially spurred by fans to help increase the visibilty of what was once an almost invisble game. See the ads? There were no ads for the game from release until these started appearing on the site. Turbine is confident that it has a quality game now - and it does.
Dark Age of Camelot is another game that tried to step out of the EQ mold and is very much enjoyed by its subscribers I hear.
Anarchy Online is kind of an Ac2 story with its vast improvements to the game over time. I personally didn't enjoy this game when I tried the demo, but I understand why so many people would like it.
FFXI - FFXI has the subscription numbers to let people vote it into the highest slot possibly - it also has just as many people who cannot stand the game and will score it with a 0. FF basically has a cult following (including myself) so whatever happens to the series is extremely volitile in nature.
How did I score FFXI? I gave it a basically average score because I felt it was just an average game. Nothing stood out in my mind as innovative or extremely well done. The only thing I scored fairly high on was performance/lag because it does a very good job of eliminating it.
To be a little critical on your post- you didn't highlight any negative aspects of the game, (I only addressed those strictly refered to in your post) nor the areas of the game where it is outdone. The only references to other games was in your introduction and pointing out the inferiority of other games. Although Ac2 is by far my favorite mmorpg I am quick to point out that it has its flaws (lag, some genericness, (other things that only subscribers would understand)) and I understand that it isn't suited to everyone.
I think the reason why I was felt it was so necessary to take time out of my day to post here was that one person's post of "perhaps no one can argue with such a great thread" (ignorance - sorry) and this comment.
"Now this statement might mean nothing coming from a 12 year old who has never played any other MMORPG in his lifetime, but being a grown man capable of higher levels rational thought, and more gameplay experience to draw from... I believe that it might be harder to dismiss my opinion as a merely whimsical musing."
I think one of the things I hated while watching the mmorpg community grow were comments such as that one which voiced the superiority of the higher age bracket's opinion over those in their lower teens. I am 18 now, and still resent all comments that even refer to that sort of a comparison. What it basically says to me is "I am older and I like it because this is done this way, so you are wrong". I am assuming that you were prepared for something along that line of this coming up since you are an MMO veteran as well. It actually lessened the credible feeling of your post for me simply because you bothered to put that in as a form of a disclaimer.
I agree with the original post, though it didn't show the negative aspects of the game, and also did not show the greatest positive aspects of the game...
Though, I am still looking forward to WoW which I believe will crush all other mmorpgs currently on the market. Though EQII is shaping up to look pretty decent as well.. Either way, both EQII and WoW will probably end up being superior to FFXI, though I think at present, FFXI is the most enjoyable mmorpg on the market.
Mada Mada Dane
Mada Mada Dane
I agree with the above two posts for the most part. FFXI is probably the worst MMORPG I have played out of all of them. These include AO, EQ, CoH, HZ, RYL, L2, KO, SWG, AC2, DAOC, EVE, etc, and FFXI is probably tied for last place with L2, and RYL.
Lying in bed, looking up at the stars, a single thought passed through my head. Where the fuc|{ is my roof.
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Nice post Fraudemonax, I also still really enjoy this game. Constantly meeting new great people. The speial events to break the monotony.
I think this game is given the worst appeal to someone depending on how they handle and recieve it.
There are people out there that just dont like Asian MMORPG's because they tend to focus on things other than the grind and the loot. Of course this is how MMORPG's were intended but because we managed to spoil EQ and drag devs from their visions, we expect all games to be a grind until endgame and then we can have fun.
FFXI will probably still be alive and kicking once EQ2 and WoW comes out because people will have gotten used to the look and feel of the game so that *incoming negative opinion* once they realize that EQ2 is dry and flashy, and perhaps if they just prefer the younger more laid back feel to FFXI as opposed to WoW. They will come back to a friend they know and love.
I played EQ, UO, Planetside, RO, Shadobane, DaoC, AC2, Nexus, Pristontale. And I beta'd RO, L2, EQ, PLanetside, EQOA, AC2, Wish, and RYL. Im not coming out of nowhere when I say that FFXI has offered the single most fullfilling gaming experiences I have ever had. The community is great, so I could make friends early on. (and thus didnt need to worry about waiting for pt's later on.) The stuff you can do is great. (Missions are entertaining, quests can be challenging and enticing, grouping is infinitly fun, and the special events add a bit of diversion from training.)
Now if you are hell bent on soloing (I solo'd in almost every game before hand and this game's "forced" grouping made me a social beast in game.) hate asian style, dont like to have fun, only like to work until you hit endgame, or in other words, are a powergamer. Maybe this game isnt for you. But if you dont mind asian style, like to meet new people, or dont mind taking time from training to do something that doesnt involve killing. You will most likely enjoy this game.
I think since this game is not hardcore and has a more casual look and feel, some gamers dislike it because they feel as if they are out of their element.
right, that is why you should play games, because of how they are to you - not someone elses score.
I love the FF series too but I have been fairly disappointed with them since 9 on - they just don't provide the depth that the ones prior to that did.
I think that score is accurate or too high. I played FFXI since american release and, at first, I would have agreed it deserved a better score. It seemed to be everything EQ wasn't to me. It had a lot of entertaining quests, it had a storyline if you wanted to spend time looking at it (missions). The art and overall feel of the game was great, very true to the FF universe too.
However, its flaws began to show quickly and got even worse as time went by.
The first thing I hated, Linkshells. That concept, to me, is absolutely terrible. Most ppl just hand out pearls, shells, etc like it's nothing, everyone seems to have at least 2 or 3. It completely kills any sense of belonging with a group. On top of that, it's damn near impossible to tell a blue linkshell, from the other 10 blue linkshells around on 1 server. Anyways, when it all came down to for me was that ppl had a linkshell to get them their phat lewts, others to escape to when they didn't want to help, etc... It also really bothers me not to be able to identify ppl by their LS, not sure how other ppl feel about this.
The second thing is the ppl. FFXI, imo, requires a lot more skill to play than EQ. The thing is, most ppl playing FFXI are just awful players. Also, as surprising as it may seem, FFXI players seem a lot greedier than those of EQ. Get ppl an item they need for a quest while xp'ing and watch them leave the group right away. I suppose this is in big part due to FFXI players being younger on average than EQ players. I met a lot of 10-14 year old players on FFXI as opposed to mostly seeing ppl 17-30 on EQ.
Another major problem I have with FFXI is just how elitist the grouping system is. This doesn't show up right away though. At first, you solo to like lvl 10. Then, you'll need a whm pretty for the rest of the game. By lvl 31 you need either a paladin or a ninja to tank. By 40+ you need a rdm to debuff and refresh everyone. So, now you're lvl 40, your group needs: whm, pld, rdm. Leaving you with 3 jobs to choose. The problem is, all those other jobs are not properly balanced. Rangers outdamage any other melee, hands down, followed by drk or thf depending on what weaponskills they have. Blm's also provide good damage, assuming your group can provide them with good useful skillchains, usually, you'll want a samurai in your group if you have a blm. That pretty much leaves jobs like dragoons, warrriors, monks, summoners with very little grouping opportunities.
On top of that, ppl will kick you out of groups for not having ubber items. (ochiude's kote (300k+) for a lvl 40 samurai. Astral rings (100k + per ring) for galka pallies. Anyways, that just sickened me.
I'd like to add that the amount of quests and missions to be done is far from being endless. I found myself with nothing at all to do at lvl 56, besides xp'ing (I hate that so much). I did all missions I could do, damn near all quests I could do with, had fame everywhere, did most burning circle fights. Don't get me started on those lvl limits and AF quests, those were just a pain in the ass. I spent over 30 hours camping a single item to break lvl 50 (the papyrus). I've yet to see a key drop in Garlaige after 7 hours camping the key drop mobs... My luck is really bad though ^^;
Crafting ain't my thing on any type of game, but I still got clothcraft to mid 50s out of necessity (you need to earn a lot of money to get by, unfortunately). I'd say it was a lot more enjoyable than other crafting systems i've experienced though.
All in all, FFXI was fun to me 'til I reached lvl 40ish. Then, it just became tedious. It seemed the other way around for EQ, getting to lvl 46 and so on, (depending what expansion you played ^^) was tedious but when you reached it, EQ was the bomb.
Oh and FFXI pvp is retarded. EQ pvp was much *much* better, on a pvp server that is.