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Case #730-43 WoW vs the people
Pappy13
Member Posts: 2,138
Members of the jury, the prosecution contends that WoW thru malicious intent has produced a fan base that is ripe with immature players, yet they have no evidence to back this up. They have no eye witness accounts. They do not offer any expert testimony. The only so called evidence they have is their assertion that one simply has to log into WoW and see for themselves. The defense does not dispute the fact that there are indeed many many asshats in the game itself. However we will also demonstrate that there is no shortage of asshats throughout the MMO user community and that every game suffers from the same affliction.
I offer you exhibit #1 Rogue420
"The empire is falling. Don't be fooled by the 10.7 million number, cause more than half comes form China. I use to like WoW, but Vivendi turned WoW into a cash cow (Vivendi was in debt). Outlands and flying mounts destroyed world pvp. Arena is very unbalanced, it's exploited to no end and ruined pve. PvE is too easy, the rewards are crap compared to easy pvp gear and it's overall a hot mess of feces. I'm not a RPer but I use to like the lore till they destroyed it. Death Knights available to every race lawlz?! Paladins on the horde side lawlz?! WoW didn't need two races of elves. Blizzard is doing the least bit of effort. I don't know if you noticed the WotLK pics/videos, but it's just old content in new colors. They baby casuals too much, it's as though they're holding your hand 1-70 and just hand you the rewards of end game content in a gift basket. I heard Arthas will be 10manable lawlz!!! And no more attunements. AoC will most likely get a huge chunk of WoW's pvpers, WAR will get a tone of pvpers/pvers, and Aion will get the left overs... Leaving the only die hard fanbois to get bored of WoW and eventually move on. I love how they ban botters 6months to a year later, so they can get their money. They've put little effort into stopping spam and BG botters. If there was a MMO inspector, WoW would fail!"
Clearly the person who wrote this was either in an advanced state of immaturity or drunk. Notice the clear signs like his complete refusal to deal with the facts of the case. For example his opening statement "don't be fooled by the 10.7 million number" and his claims that Vivendi was in debt clearly shows he's not in touch with reality. Look at his overuse of the word lawlz, if that doesn't show someone who's clearly under the influence, then I don't know what does.
I now offer you exhibit #2 Washo
"What everyone seems to be missing is the ridiculousness of having the same boss in a 10 man and 25 man? From a storyline point of view its stupid to have someone like Arthas as a 10 man raid. The Lick King/Arthas is supposed to be one of the most powerful entities in the game that can be done in a simple 10 man more. And have the same boss in 2 different instances ... that is stupid.
In WotLK there will be 10 classes. Unless they make the 10mans simple stupid there will be no room for moonkin druids, ret paladins or fury warriors. Even prot paladins will have limited roles unless Blizzard throws up some manufactured scenario where AoE tanking is required on trash. And don't forget we have to fit in Death Knight tanking. How are you going to fit 4 tanks in a 10 man? Prot warrior and paladin, feral druid and death knight, hmm? There aren't many bosses where a prot paladin beats a warrior tank. So casuals will complain that utility specs like moonkin, elemental shaman, ret paladins aren't wanted in 10 mans. And if you can complete the 10 mans with these classes they will be simple and easy. The benefit of bringing these classes to 25mans is that they provide raid and group buffs that outweigh their lower DPS. With only 2 groups for 10mans you don't have things like melee groups and caster groups. And the reason you can complete Karazhan/ZA with off-specs is because they are EASY.
I was in a guild that cleared Hyjal/BT recently only raiding 12 hours a week. 3 nights of 4 hours. Most people watch more than 12 hours of TV a week. Most of the players in the guild were 25-30, virtually all of them worked full time, the only ones who didn't were married women with children who stayed home. I used to play sport that required 2 training nights a week and a match day on Sunday. Roughly about the same as WoW. I used to be in a "casual" guild where we actually raided more often 4 nights of 4 hours but attendance we would have 10-12 of the 25 spots would be different each night. This guild progressed nowhere BECAUSE WE WERE BAD. I even spoke to some of the members when they finally got to 5/6 SSC and 3/4 TK, and guess what, they couldn't even down Vashj because no one put in any effort into it even though they spent more hours attempting it than me new guild who downed Kael and Vashj in much much less time because we PUT THE EFFORT IN.
If you have that little time to devote to a hobby, if your life is THAT exciting that you can't put the effort into learning how to play the game and organising 25 then maybe play a different game?
As I have proven you can see most of the content in the game without being a 40 hour a week raiding guild then these changes are not designed for "casual" players but BAD PLAYERS. I'm all for having simple and easy content for casuals, but why does it have to be the same as 25 man content that progresses the storyline? Because you pay $15 a month too? I pay $15 a month too therefore I DEMAND THAT BLIZZARD GIVE ME A 2200 ARENA RATING. After raiding I had little time for PvP but since I pay the same monthly fee as the PvP'ers I demand to ahve the same ratings, titles and PvP gear as them."
Again we see what the advanced stages of immaturity can do to a person. Here he mixes reality with fantasy as if they are one in the same. He rambles on almost incoherently, it's impossible to really even identify what point he's trying to make at several points. And then still later on he insinuates that the value of a person's life can be somehow measured by the way he plays a game. Clearly this person is on the brink of a break with reality.
So, ladies and gentleman of the jury, I put to you that it's not WoW that is to blame for the lack of maturity, but rather the individuals who play the game. I'm sure with the proper education and the proper medication that these people could become valuable members of the WoW community. So do not look down upon these folks, we must embrace them and help them so that they too can one day lead meaningful and productive lives.
I know you will do what's right and rule in favor of Blizzard and WoW and put an end to these ridiculous proceedings.
I thank you for your time.
Comments
It's my own opinion that WoW has the same % of asshat's as every other game out there. I've played most online games to level caps and it's hardly a new thing to come across people that leave a bad taste in your mouth. The only real difference is WoW has alot more player's ... and since asshats tend to be vocal ... they get more attention in WoW.
Hell both of the EQ2 server's I played on to level 80 had well know asshats in the 70-79 and 80 channel's ... difference being that when they started thier crap 10-15 other's would shout them down ... in WoW as soon as one asshat start's ... the other's on the server join in and the other players just choose to ignore it.
WoW is mostly a guild game. Most of the interacting you do in WoW is on the guild level, so people guild with other's they like. EQ2, DAoC etc are *more* social game IMO. Mostly due to lower population's. People PUG (Pick-up-group) alot more and hence reputations are more valued. In WoW ... the asshat's just make an asshat guild and carry on spamming general chat with thier random BS. Since the other player's in WoW are playing on the guild level ... it matter's little what random noob X is saying to them. In smaller population game's ... comunity is much more valued.
Bottom line ... WoW has the same amount of dick's ... its just that 1% of 5 million (I don't count the farmer's since they are mostly quiet
) is alot more than 1% of 150K.
D-
The haters of WoW has always been rather uneducated when it came to making any valid points, they simply couldn't. Most cases ended with them pulling some goofy information out of their rear end with nothing to back it up.
In general they try to act very mature, yet their comments are contracting how they want to be seen, in other words, their comments are everything but mature. In fact, we have seen again and again that they seem to be more childish stubborn than anything you could imagine, always resorting to smacktalk, when their arguments failed. In most cases they simply make it short and just a typical insult, such as "wow kiddies", or other typical generalizations.
I have yet to see a "wow hater", whose actually being mature in his replies, comments, and not blowing air out of the wrong hole.
I don't play WoW anymore but i acknowledge the success WoW made, and praise blizzard fore making such a polished mmorpg. They didn't make it super advanced, yet it was still really entertaining. They were able to make both exciting, epic, dramatic, and funny scenes with either certain quests, bosses, or the likes. Blizzard didn't pull off a A+ across the board but instead did what no one else had done, making it far above average in every field, thus pretty much pleasing a really broad audience. The fact WoW can play on almost every computer is quite amazing, and even then look good, the art style is VERY artistic and vivid at times, with some places really feeling like a true fantasy world you do be looking at while dreaming.
I can't see how people can badmouth what Blizzard has made, they in general make golden eggs in each of those respectable genres, which were all a lot of FUN and always worth every penny in entertainment. Their brand still holds true today, and with their upcoming, still secret, monster budget mmorpg, it really makes you wonder.... Because now blizzard got this much money for their projects, what will they create? They started as an underdog but now a Top dog. They doesn't seem to have forgotten what made them great, which is a good sign.
But then again i guess many people go by the saying; "You hurt the things, you love(d) the most". In many, or maybe most, cases it's all about burned souls.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Just for the record, I was only trying to be funny, not really trying to start another discussion on the topic. There are already a bunch of those.
Demarc is 100% correct. With huge 100,000 subscriber + games you dont get a community really, you get a city where you dont know everyone and most people do not matter to you.
You also have to include "fanboys" too, they are as annoying as doomsayers.
Own, Mine, Defend, Attack, 24/7
Not immaturity, this is a side effect of Barrens Chat.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Thats what Ive always said. The shear amount of people that WOW has just magnifies the %of jerks they have playing.
WoW caters to a more mature audience, to people who have families and responsibilities, not students who can enjoy so-called hardcore MMORPGs for 18 hours a day. Their attempts to downplay the success or quality of the game are nothing more than misdirected emotional drivel.
Simply saying that WoW has a terrible community doesn't make it so, it is simply not true, and I could quote my MMORPG heritage but I know it won't make a blind bit of difference to the weight of my words. Perhaps detractors of its community think that lively, active, jovial and popular are synonymous with terrible, but I think not. That said, WoW is just a single game. It does not require their appreciation or acknowledgement, it's continued success speaks for itself.
MMORPG players are nerds, typically. Non-conformists, the kind that stop listening to band that becomes popular. WoW is simply too popular for these people to enjoy. It's perfectly natural behaviour.
I'm not playing WoW because I'm a conformist, I'm playing it because it's simply the most complete and entertaining MMORPG out there and I don't need to give up my social life completely to find success. They call that easy, we call it "l2p".
GG.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Your honor, the people contend the following facts to prove the case that WoW has the worst, most immature player base in the MMO Genre, further more the company "Blizzard" refuses to take step to fix said problem.
Evidence:
1. The sheer number of players discounts what was a reality in older games. EQ, if you were a twerp, a ninja looter or just a complete waste this would quickly get known. the only recourse one had was to re-roll if one had ruined their own reputations. In WoW there are so many players that one can be a jerk with near impunity and suffer nary a consequence.
2. The "Raid or Die" mentality that has been fostered, bred and groomed by Blizzard leads to an inordinante amount of players thinking they are either superior for running 25 man raids daily, or that they must run such raids to be "worthy". This sense of entitlement, of perceived superiority merely encourages the immaturity. "I see you have 4 blues, you're really not a very good player are you?"
3. Gold Farmers and their customers: Every day the amount of in-game spam is atrocious, others seeing that such behavior is not stopped feel they have the right to be jerks in chat. It's a detrimental side effect of poor policing by Blizzard. Also, those so pathetic as to purchase gold from the open market and then jack prices of AH items to highly inflated ranges leaves honest players resenting the jerks that purchase their "epic" mounts and other items while they slave daily to achieve.
4. Barrens Chat.
The people rest their case.
Always change your signature.
Shift happens, can you feel it?
Your honor if I may cross examine?
1) The number of subscriptions within WoW are no doubt much larger, but what are the number of subscriptions per server for WoW and for EQ? It matters not whether you are known throughout the entire subscription base, only whether or not you are known on the server you play on. I put it to you that the number of subscribers per server in WoW is fairly equal to the number of subscribers per server in EQ, therefore the point is moot. Of course you can always switch servers, but you could easily start another toon in EQ as well as the prosecution pointed out.
2) Hear say.
3) Irrelevent. What does gold farming have to do with maturity? Gold farming is a function of time and money. Those that don't have the time or do have the money partake in purchasing gold. Maturity doesn't factor into the equation.
4) Forum chat.
That concludes my cross examination, however I reserve the right to call rebuttal witness.
EQ Players knew each other. People got reputations, it carried across the server. Why? ona PACKED server youmight have 2k players, MIGHT.
Wow has 5k per server on two different sides. EQ didn't have that at all.
Always change your signature.
Pappy13 do you work for Blizzard because I have never seen a fanboi so ruthless at making random posts constantly about why WoW is so great. Yeah it has numbers, but its not an impressive game in any means. It is the absolute mediocre of games and that is how it pulls numbers.
Your honor if I may cross examine?
1) The number of subscriptions within WoW are no doubt much larger, but what are the number of subscriptions per server for WoW and for EQ? It matters not whether you are known throughout the entire subscription base, only whether or not you are known on the server you play on. I put it to you that the number of subscribers per server in WoW is fairly equal to the number of subscribers per server in EQ, therefore the point is moot. Of course you can always switch servers, but you could easily start another toon in EQ as well as the prosecution pointed out.
2) Hear say.
3) Irrelevent. What does gold farming have to do with maturity? Gold farming is a function of time and money. Those that don't have the time or do have the money partake in purchasing gold. Maturity doesn't factor into the equation.
4) Forum chat.
That concludes my cross examination, however I reserve the right to call rebuttal witness.
The massive number of players seems to lead to less interaction, how very odd, I've puzzled over what made this game lack social interaction and I've only come up with that people prefer to play by themselves in this game.
Hearsay? No I think hes right, This game is very very very raid centric. When I first got my Warlock to 70 it was like starting over at level 1 again, only everyone expected you to have great gear and was disapointed.
Also the learning curve is way too steep in WoW, it goes from the most simple questing system that anyone can use, to a very complex AI driven fight against monsters that have strategies that sometimes borderline cheat.
I couldn't imagine paying money to buy Gold in WoW as its so easy to get money. I've seen mature people buy in game money and I've seen kids who begged their mommies to buy them gold. Frankly I just think that Blizz probably owns some of the Gold seller companies because they make little to no effort to get rid of them, unlike SqureEnix.
The reason the maturity level is low in WoW is because the maturity level is low on the internet.
What an asinine post. Isn't it ironic though how it's poking fun at the community?
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
Are you suggesting that people in WoW do not have reputations? You should go read the realm forums. People know who the trouble makers are on their own server.
By the way, you should see what I write about the Miami Dolphins. My friends would tell you that it has nothing to do with Blizzard or WoW, I just like to talk.
The wow forums? Nope I avoid those like the freaking PLAGUE. THE PLAGUE. I've posted there numerous times in the past to only get completely shut down by the most inane arrogant posters.Are you suggesting that people in WoW do not have reputations? You should go read the realm forums. People know who the trouble makers are on their own server.
As for people who know who their trouble makers, yeah you can believe that they are controlled. Go ahead. I've been around MMO's long enough to know what WoW makes up in gameplay and execution on older games, it's lost in community.
The "My Gear" mentality is the basis, the large enough server populations means "I can be anonymous!" and get away with a LOT more then you ever could in the old days.
Always change your signature.
Aww you left out my favorite post to-date:
Vivendi is somehow a private, but publicly traded, company. Oh wait, no it's a shadow company for Blizzard. People are fools to believe numbers stated in year-end financials; anyone remember Enron, because they totally got away with fraud.
Good times!
Of course the OP was made tongue-in-cheek. It's a response to some of the more outrageous claims posted on this forum. People act as if Blizzard ruined their lives, and now can't help themselves to constantly troll here.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Good or bad things about the Dolphins because I work for the grounds crew around them. I could tell you stories about their terribleness
Good or bad things about the Dolphins because I work for the grounds crew around them. I could tell you stories about their terribleness
I hope things are going to get better this year with the Tuna.
As for people who know who their trouble makers, yeah you can believe that they are controlled. Go ahead. I've been around MMO's long enough to know what WoW makes up in gameplay and execution on older games, it's lost in community.
I didn't say they were controlled, I said they knew who they were, which means that most people just avoid them, which I guess to some extent is a level of control. No one is disputing the fact that if you want to enjoy yourself in WoW you should find a good guild or group of friends and insulate yourself from the masses. But that's only different from the the "old school" MMO's because back then there really was only one type of player. The popularity of WoW has brought MMO's to the main stream and when you do that you are going to find a much more diverse crowd. It's not a less mature crowd, it's just not the same bunch of role-playing people that grew up on dungeons and dragons. It's more just your average gamer. You'll get some FPS kinda guys, some RTS kinda guys and there's some RPG kinda guys mixed in too. It's different, but not less mature.
As both a player of WoW and FFXI, the community is vastly different. I've credited this to two different things. The VERY large learning curve that FFXI has it only attracts and *keeps* the dedicated gamer who has already decided that they want to put in the effort to get the finer things.
Also, FFXI, unlike a lot of other games, only requires you to make one character for all the jobs. So if you're a schmuck in WoW, you can just reroll. Create another character with a new job. Where in FFXI you stay with the one character. Sure, you can re-roll but after a certain point, you'd be wiping out months and months and *months* of work that you're now going to have to do all over again. So people, if not just through self preservation, tend to not be as big of assholes. Makes finding parties that much harder as the community on each server in FFXI tends to be closer and tighter.
Is WoW horrible? No. It has a place and it has a great niche market. It makes playing easier and has a lot of content to keep you content for a while. However, i am not playing as much anymore (almost none) because i just got tired of the repetitious nature of the game. I still cant fathom how every single piece of armor and every weapon (after about level 10) is BoE or BoP. This sucks when you have to pay 150gold for a piece of armor so you can keep up with the levels you're trying to kill (PvE) then have to sell to a merchant for 1 or 2g.
And the twinks. Dear god is there a more useless person than a twink? Seriously.
EVE - Sharvala
FFXI - Shazamalicious
Guild Wars - Xavier Lucifer & Charlize the Necro
"Ranged...stuck...tree...15 random words... suck... noob fanboy... I MAKE GUIDE!"
If it's your twink, than yes.
Sorry just had to laugh at this comment. 10 million strong niche market.
Sorry just had to laugh at this comment. 10 million strong niche market.
Maybe that's what he thought, great, as in huge.