It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
The subject line may seem mysterious or offensive, or even generalizing, but there is something to this point of this post. Ever since I've been playing MMOs (about 1999/2000) there's always been a significant degree of immaturity in the audience of people who have played. Hell, I was barely a 'legal' adult by the time I played Asheron's Call, and I was 17 when I started on MUDs. So, I can safely say I was an immature <bleep!> without trying to hide it. What bothers me now isn't immaturity in itself, rather the vulgarity that many people partake in almost all MMOs.
Some folks call it the Barrens Chat 'Effect', others call it the 4chan Effect, and so on. I simply call it a sign or a symptom of a sick society. What I mean by that statement that the basic issues of vulgarity found in MMOs or simply any place online is the same sort of vulgarity we find in real life. The same people who are suppose to be upstanding moral beings really turn out to be the most lecherous, despotic, and even backstabbing sorts of folks just by turning on a PC and opening up their favorite MMO game (and logging in). I don't see the reason for the behaviors themselves, other than people take a different set of standards when playing a game, or being online.
What bothers me the most is that its becoming even evident in everyday real world situations for me. Being that I am transgendered (yet I haven't even transitioned to full time, let alone make myself look female...) I get the same sort of flack that I do online now in the offline real world. Granted, I am have a minority that a great majority either find strange or possibly 'dangerous'/etc/blah-biggotry-here, but even years ago when I attempted to transition no one tried to be as vulgar now back then. What made then (the past) more different than today? Perhaps, there is something different in the past that did make a greater difference in attitude of people, but I suspect it's more to do with the fact that these same people weren't commonly online nor had the gall while online (back then) to assert their true feelings and vulgar attitudes. In essence, the online sphere of life is becoming a 'breeding'/training ground for this vulgarity (potentially dangerous to my person being of a significantly small, but visible minority) for which there doesn't seem to be much of a mechanism to stem the progression of it offline as there is online (the old ban hammer doesn't extend to the real world beyond maybe a .44 Magnum pistol).
Ultimately, I do not believe there is much that I can do beyond avoiding such people offline. As such I make this post something of a warning of what may become a truly dangerous problem in the real world, not because vulgarity itself is bad, rather that such vulgarity that I've found that parallels the online vulgarity often is backed up with real world violence or the threat of it. Being as such, I do believe it is the right of everyone to be informed of this growing problem, and even for them to attempt to refute it, which I hope someone does because I don't like my conclusion so far, not because it seems flimsy to me, rather because I keep finding evidence even when I don't look for it. In the end, it's bad news.
-- Brede
Comments
I think it can be boiled down to the fact people are more open with expressing their true thoughts or maybe not even their true thoughts but being agressive online where they have their annonymoty (sp) protecting them.
In the real world they'd get punched in the face for half the stuff they say online.
nethervoid - Est. '97
[UO|EQ|SB|SWG|PS|HZ|EVE|NWN|WoW|VG|DF|AQW|DN|SWTOR|Dofus|SotA|BDO|AO|NW|LA] - Currently Playing EQ1
20k+ subs YouTube Gaming channel
I wish that were true in the cases I've dealt with the vulgarity, often I'm finding myself threatened with physical violence for only reason of existing. And these folks aren't the skin-dead or gangbanger types. I'm talking folks you'd find at the grocery store. That's the problem I see.
-- Brede
It's not really a sign for the worst, it's just that the internet is now the perfect medium for anyone with stress or pent up rage to lash at anyone without the consequences of retribution.
In the past, 20-30 yrs ago, intolerance was still (if not more) prevelant, but it was kept from public view..for the most part. Racism has improved, yet not completely (unfortunately), It is easier to condemn than to take the effort to understand something, like it or not...and many ppl are just too lazy to make the effort. So, they just feed off whatever negative feelings they have, find an injustice somewhere and use their rage to support it, however illogical it sounds.
Added to the fact, that the youth (not all granted), with their still forming views on the world..are granted free reign to express whatever crosses their mind at that particular moment online. Obviously without the wisdom of experience, and realize not what impact their words may have to others.
Time will tell whether or not the online phenomena will improve or degrade society's tolerance to those different from those condemning.
If you understand their inexperienced point of view, it tends to alleviate some of the sting from the words. How can you blame or get upset from the ignorant?
I think this says it all.....
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
I guess I worry too much. None the less, I even remember even fifteen years ago folks were more cautious with their statements of threats of violence, now it's quite the opposite. So, I have to conclude there's something 'sick' in society in general, that makes it morally acceptable for someone to treat another rational being as an object of misuse. That's why I tend to label the situations that I deal with as symptoms because the only real cause I can find is the total disintegration of the philosophy (particularly within ethics) that folks operate on everyday. Whether it's the over-dependence on government for solutions to problems or whether it's simply the results of being the new Rome (where vulgarity rises often with empire or the aspirations of being one), it seems like a problem that isn't going away. And like Heinlein, I believe a society as such cannot stand when Nature does its worse in famine or plague. I just hope some folks snap out of it and get a clue: they don't own the lives of others and they should approach others with a degree of courteousness. But I won't hold out much hope for it.
-- Brede
lol That is funny, and yet so disturbingly accurate...
Like what's been said, people on the net don't care so much about what they say which might be offensive to people since they can't actually see them and this makes it harder to empathise with them. I think the net doesn't make people bad, it just makes it easy for rude people to be rude more easily.
That being said, I actually find that on the internet the majority of people are much easier to get on with than in real life. And talking to someone in a game and in real life can be a very different experience. I think it is quite a minority of people who are rude and vulgar, but the fact that it can be quite shocking makes it stand out.
Sorry to hear that people mock you for your way of life. I think people may be more rude these days may be due to more "liberal" parenting methods (not to say this way of upringing doesn't work, but more that in some cases it can lead to very disrespectful young people).
That being said I'm just 18 so you guys may even consider me immature
will
Playing: Xsyon.

Played:
Tried: Ultima Online, Everquest 2, Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures, Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, Flyff, Perfect World, Silkroad Online, EVE Online, Ryzom.
-- Brede
-- Brede
That's just disgruntlement you're facing, and it's just growing alomg with an apathy that will soon become the norm I'm afraid.Immaturiy does not equate to being young...it's completely in the mental state of the individual regardless of age. But I believe Apocamentus has it right when it's only a % that are like that. Unfortunately, you seem to run into that % with a greater % than normal.
-- Brede
That's just disgruntlement you're facing, and it's just growing alomg with an apathy that will soon become the norm I'm afraid.
Immaturiy does not equate to being young...it's completely in the mental state of the individual regardless of age. But I believe Apocamentus has it right when it's only a % that are like that. Unfortunately, you seem to run into that % with a greater % than normal.
I'm calling it the shit-head magnet theory. If you are of equal or greater non-shit-headedness, you are likely to attract an equal or greater amount of shit-headedness therein.
-- Brede
People are losing their fear of mankind and so they no longer respect man.
We have learned to fear violence to the point where we are afraid to use violence when it is required.
The life lessons we learned in the school yard are no longer being taught.
People are moving away from the morals of religon without adopting the morals that logic and reason provide.
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
Imagine the folowing:
there will be somekind of sports show/game in your local "sports center".
The creators will make a couple of posters, place it in town, talk a little about it in radio, and that's it.
The crowd (500 people) comes to the show/game, has it's fun, creates 1% of problems, goes home.
(just invented that 1%... amuse me)
Option 2:
the creators of the show, not only make posters, talk in radio, they also make TV shows, drop publicity by plain, use promotion on stores to gives tickets, and make all kind of publicity one is capable of...
The crowd (10 000 people) comes to the show/game, has it's fun, creates 2% of problems, goes home.
(again, invented the 2%...)
Bottom line, the % amount of problems hasnt actually rised more, but since there just so many more people, one notices it way more (5 people on 1st case, 200 on second).
This is somewhat what is happening to MMOs... mutch more people playing it.
And we arrive to the second "point" i'm trying to make. On my first example, only the people interested on said show/game would come and see it. On second example the publicity reached people that maybe didnt even knew that 'thing' existed, creating the "more immature" crowd, in some way.
Ok, or maybe i'm just talking out of my ass
Atleast it makes sense to me! 
_________________
Senhores da Guerra
thanks
I've never heard of that book (I assume it's a book) that you suggested to me. I think having an interest in philosophy is helpful indeed. I study it at college, but I definitely think it should be a compulsory subject for younger people. I wouldn't want this to mean that everyone just goes around with flowers in their hair and hugging trees, I would just like it if people thought about things more, especially consequences of actions.
You say that it has got worse, I can't really second this since I still think of myself as being part of the "younger generation". But judging by my time spent in education, it seems like must people become fundamentally who they are at quite a young age. The possibly increase in ignorent and nasty teenagers could be a nock off effect from the whole womens rights and abolition of the nuclear family idea which led to loads of single parents who often couldn't handle bringing up their kids since it was a totally different way to how they were themselves brought up.
Not to say that I think we should stick to the 1950s idea of a family, I just think that we are going through quite a transition period in what we think of as a family and child rearing (probably caused by the media, technology, education, and improved lifestyle in western countries). And I think people just arn't used to it and don't have much experience on how it all works yet.
Again, my mind just started darting from one thing to the next as I wrote that down so I hope it makes sense. And I could quite easily be wrong since I wasn't thinking it through so much.
W
Playing: Xsyon.

Played:
Tried: Ultima Online, Everquest 2, Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures, Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, Flyff, Perfect World, Silkroad Online, EVE Online, Ryzom.
Very true, at least in Europe, there has been a big decrease in religion. So people arn't going ooo I better not steal because it says so in the 10 commandments, and I don't want to go to hell. While I'm pleased that less people believe in a religion here, it does worry me that there are people who only don't do immoral things because they thought it would make them go to hell if they did do them.
Makes sense to me, since you can see the maturity decrease if you move from an older mmo where people who play it must have done some more research into the game before playing it, compared to a game like wow which is the default mmo for people to play who don't know about mmos much.
For example GTA4 is a game which has had a huge amount of publicity, I played online last night and I was shocked to hear what the kids on there were saying on their microphones. I can't imagine what there parents think of them when they hear their kids shouting all that abuse down the microphones.
Playing: Xsyon.

Played:
Tried: Ultima Online, Everquest 2, Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures, Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, Flyff, Perfect World, Silkroad Online, EVE Online, Ryzom.
_________________
Senhores da Guerra
That depends entirely on whether you believe in God. If you do then it does, since God is the one who dictates the rightness or wrongness of the action.
Playing: Xsyon.

Played:
Tried: Ultima Online, Everquest 2, Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures, Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, Flyff, Perfect World, Silkroad Online, EVE Online, Ryzom.
"This is my simple religion. There is no need for temples; no need for complicated philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our temple; the philosophy is kindness."
"Dalai lama
Now, this isn't to 'convert' anyone lol but religion isn't necessarily the best measure of tolerance and good faith. Look at the atrocities caused in the name of faith, all the way back centuries to now.
In this life we can either aspire to better ourselves or follow the crowd wherever it may lead.
Personally, I'd rather be able to see where I'm headed than have to deal with circumstances at arriving somewhere I might really wish to be.
yes this is true, however I also think that it has the effect of controlling people and stopping immoral acts *within a society or majority group of people*. If people are purely without any judging God, it would appear from looking at whats happened recently, that people don't have any hell to fear and therefore think they can do what they want.
Playing: Xsyon.

Played:
Tried: Ultima Online, Everquest 2, Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures, Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, Flyff, Perfect World, Silkroad Online, EVE Online, Ryzom.
yes this is true, however I also think that it has the effect of controlling people and stopping immoral acts *within a society or majority group of people*. If people are purely without any judging God, it would appear from looking at whats happened recently, that people don't have any hell to fear and therefore think they can do what they want.
That "control" you mention, is historically what's been used to fuel the wars and atrocities. Not all are like that, but the more control a religion has on you, the greater the crime you're willing to commit in its name. Religion needs to be more accepting and tolerant, of individuals, other religions and beliefs, otherwise it just propagates the intolerance and prejudice already present.
Well first off, I'm sorry that you are having this experience. However, this is nothing new. It is my guess that you are pretty young and not very life experienced? Or perhaps come from a rather rural area to think that this is getting worse and worse? When you have lived longer you will realize it has always been this way. The internet just brings it to you faster.
People have acted this way long before the internet. And more to the point, people who have what would be considered "alternate lifestyles" have especially received a lot of flack. And beleive it or not, The gay and lesbian community have more acceptance now then when I was younger. I mean, you have (had) shows like Will and Grace and other shows/movies with gay/lesbian characters. Believe me, this was not the case 25-30 years ago. The community at large is more accepting/tolerant. This is not to say that everyone is and not to say that you are not going to run into issues. But hey, just go to a place where people with alternate lifestyles are more accepted/tolerated. you can't force someone to give you the respect you want and perhaps in best case scenario you will just get ignored, but it beats have violent conflict.
But as we've said, this is the problem with the human race. It has been around long before we were born and will most likely be around long after. Good Luck and avoid poison people.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Dont want to insult, but that must be the most naive and close minded sentence i've seen in a long time.
_________________
Senhores da Guerra
Dont want to insult, but that must be the most naive and close minded sentence i've seen in a long time.
Uh, no it's not. If one does believe in God and follows the idea of a God then "yes" that god is the one who dictates the rightness and wrongess of a situation based upon the teachings. Whether it's the Queran (sp?) or Bible, or what you you. The faith dictates right and wrong and it is up to the follower to try to live their life accordingly.
If one doesn't believe in a God then they will most likely have adopted certain moral followings based upon some teachings when they were young, society, laws, or what have you.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Gath I would appreciate it if you actually said why you think what I said is wrong.
And yes I'm not saying that religeous control was good, I was just saying that in the context of upbringing, religious families usually brought their kids up with a fear of God and hell to stop them doing bad things. Anyway I have to go now because I'm being shouted at to help with dinner!
Will
Playing: Xsyon.

Played:
Tried: Ultima Online, Everquest 2, Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures, Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, Flyff, Perfect World, Silkroad Online, EVE Online, Ryzom.
Quoting Hitler:
"I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator [...]"
You know who Hitler was... right?
This kind of behaviour could be seen in any age, in any country, any person, all the way back to the crusades or the inquisition.
But, i wont discuss more religion. From personal experience i know religious people hardly ever change ideas on their beliefs, no matter how mutch we can prove them wrong.
Also, who am i to say i know more then others?
_________________
Senhores da Guerra
Not bad assessment if you ask me. In addition I think when a crowd is growing, it will draw more people into it. I.e. there is alot higher probability that a crowd of 200 draws even more into it than a group of 5.
--
Leemeg.