Many of you can live in your dellusion all you want, but if SWG was so good in the beginning and had all those people playing there never would have been any changes, the fact is that R. Koster created a terrible game and the true population numbers after some time reflected that , and thats why Lucas Arts ordered SOE to make changes. Sometimes I wonder how many of the people that post about how great SWG was pre whatever, really did play, or if they are just spouting crap they read on other posts, just becuase they think it makes them look cool in some odd way.
Cut, pasted, and slightly edited from another post:
I think people calling for a "return to the pre-CU game" are asking for the wrong thing. Considering that the game engine is now five years old and the original code is apparently not suitable for any realistic, significant improvement, I think we're all better off just leaving SWG, letting it shut down, and putting our hopes into some new form of "SWG 2" with new code, new engine, updated features, etc. Maybe put our hopes into whatever Bioware is making, which may or may not be based on Star Wars. All the major overhaul this game needs apparently just can't be done with the current game's setup. If the game is still having all these problems 5 years later, I don't think it can ever be fixed.
I say all this because I played SWG from 10 days after launch up until December of 2004, so I never saw all the CU-NGE-expansion stuff....until today (4/27/08). I downloaded the trial because a friend and I are on a bit of a Star wars kick, and read some good things about the current SWG. When I logged in, my characters from 3.5 years ago were still there (even sitting in the same spot I left them), and except for JtL, I didn't really see anything different from when I played. The npcs and missions were still dumb as rocks, there was nobody around on Starsider except for a couple of towns on Tatooine, and I just wasn't very impressed (and remember, I was essentially playing the old SWG). My point is, that while I was completely addicted to SWG back then and still remember it with fond memories and nostalgia, it just wasn't a very good game even before the CU and NGE.
Now, almost 5 years and two major debacles later, still seeing bugs unfixed, the AI still terrible, still no GCW, and "revamps" being done over and over (with more promised), I think it's been reasonably established that the game can't be improved in any significant way -- thus my call (among many) to let SWG die and look forward to a new Star Wars MMO.
We don't have to play SWG just because we like Star Wars. The sooner we let this game go away, the sooner a new Star Wars game will be made.
Even the more populated servers have empty cities on a constant basis. It is nothing like the old days when every NPC city was packed with players who had an identity attached to to the city and planet they started on. The numbers have been tweaked to reflect heavy or medium. There are no full servers at prime. And major PvP events that players take part in can crash the server just like the wookie protest did when they wanted armor.
I actually logged in to see how things were this weekend.
I couldn't play on any of my regular accounts (that's a story about SOE support that will be published later), so I created a free 14-day trial account.
On the newb space station, I only saw 1 other player the entire time I was there. I ran through it 2 times to get 2 characters beyond the worst of the newb levels.
The servers throughout much of the weekend looked like the 1st screen-shot, not the one posted later on. Very light loads on most of the servers, light loads on some, medium on 2-3, and the only server with any real action... looked like a Euro server.
If I were a new player, this would be pretty discouraging, imho.
And yes, preCU, the starter towns would've been pretty packed. Obviously there were some areas that were 'less traveled', but I don't recall ghost towns like there are now.
I hit up the top 10 hotspots (dying while trying to get to a few of them, due to my level, of course)... again, 1-3 people at a few of those places.
PvP = Restuss. If there was PvP anywhere else... I guess there was a 'Fight Club' somewhere.
I'm not saying that there are only 6,000 people playing. But if there are many more than that, I sure didn't see them.
Don't forget all the threads where people complain about how empty servers are. We see the same thing when we do trials ect, so no matter what the fans say the game is struggling. The only ones living in a dream world are them. It's not what it once was, and never will be. Even the few people in my old guild who swore there was plenty of fun to be had have now left. I thought I would never see the day.
I am not surprised the populations are so low, and they are very LOW. The game isn't fun. If you don't even compare it to Pre-CU and just compare it to WoW, the game fails miserably. At this point, SWG is closest to Vanguard.
Bugged, empty, and with a HORRIBLE reputation for being mishandled.
It's very unfortunate and it pains me to see my day 2 toons sitting there wasting away but I can't pay for a game that offers so little fun gameplay.
Every time someone pays for a server transfer or goes out of their way to hype up a tiny instance the developers added it just reinforces how easily manipulated some consumers can be...
Fanboism really is a strange phenomenom. It's very similar to Stockholm Syndrome.
SOE/LA work product in regards to ROI speaks for itself. Subs are way down since the NGE and declining further by referencing the calls for server merges. This title has been decimated.
If i actually want to see other players anywhere, i go play WoW. If i want to be (almost) alone in a big virtual world i start SWG. I'm almost beyond clueless why i still (somewhat) care and play SWG. The latest chapter for example is a nice joke of those devs, you have to search to discover any content in it. May the Force be with Bioware..
And what is the syndrome associated with beating a dead horse, Thunderous?
Not sure, I don't think there is one. Truth is never a dead horse now is it, Dae?
I dunno, I thought the SWG server population discussion was over about 2 years ago when everyone who had 1 year subs from prior to NGE let them expire. I will relate a short story for you though: I play SWG on and off, as I have mentioned before. The first time I took a break was during Christmas 2003, when I got tired of the holo-grind and what it was doing to the game, after that I was on a rolling cycle of about 3 months in game, 3 months out of game. Post-NGE I run about 3 months out of game to 1 month in. Every time I have returned since that first Christmas (basically less than 1 year after launch), I have asked where the population has gone. Every time I read statements on populations, I think back to all the time I have left and returned to a game which, in my eyes, has had a steadily decreasing population since that first break back in Dec 2003. So the reality to me is that the game has never had a stellar subscription base and if you didn't know people that were in game, then you were going to live a lonely life on some pretty barren planets.
I'm sure if I had stuck with the same crowd from day one, I would have a different view, but in the end I just don't think the game measured up to all it was cracked up to be, both positive and negative, pre-CU, CU, or NGE. Why do I keep going back? Because I really like JTL. It's as simple as that. I suck at space pvp, but I just like the JTL part of SWG and have been hooked on it since my first ACE.
And what is the syndrome associated with beating a dead horse, Thunderous?
Not sure, I don't think there is one. Truth is never a dead horse now is it, Dae?
I dunno, I thought the SWG server population discussion was over about 2 years ago when everyone who had 1 year subs from prior to NGE let them expire. I will relate a short story for you though: I play SWG on and off, as I have mentioned before. The first time I took a break was during Christmas 2003, when I got tired of the holo-grind and what it was doing to the game, after that I was on a rolling cycle of about 3 months in game, 3 months out of game. Post-NGE I run about 3 months out of game to 1 month in. Every time I have returned since that first Christmas (basically less than 1 year after launch), I have asked where the population has gone. Every time I read statements on populations, I think back to all the time I have left and returned to a game which, in my eyes, has had a steadily decreasing population since that first break back in Dec 2003. So the reality to me is that the game has never had a stellar subscription base and if you didn't know people that were in game, then you were going to live a lonely life on some pretty barren planets.
I'm sure if I had stuck with the same crowd from day one, I would have a different view, but in the end I just don't think the game measured up to all it was cracked up to be, both positive and negative, pre-CU, CU, or NGE. Why do I keep going back? Because I really like JTL. It's as simple as that. I suck at space pvp, but I just like the JTL part of SWG and have been hooked on it since my first ACE.
Space was the only thing that kept me playing after the NGE hit. Then the dark times on Kauri started in regards to players leaving either via quitting outright for the majority or culminating to the last few large guilds en mass transferring to another server.
Populations will decline somewhat over time for all MMO's. (WoW being the exception obviously to the rules in many areas now in the industry.
The thing with SWG is that you can clearly point to game decisions for the triggers for the population decline.
I don't know about WoW being the exception. The server I poke around on seems to be pretty flat in terms of growth and most players I run into are like, "you are a true newb and not an alt?" I always took that as a sign of the population, but recently someone said it may be because I played WoW in closed beta I know more about it than most "true newbs." I can say that beta had more people online at any given time than my current server, and I'm not talking those 2 stress tests they did either. That was just sick with players.
I don't know about WoW being the exception. The server I poke around on seems to be pretty flat in terms of growth and most players I run into are like, "you are a true newb and not an alt?" I always took that as a sign of the population, but recently someone said it may be because I played WoW in closed beta I know more about it than most "true newbs." I can say that beta had more people online at any given time than my current server, and I'm not talking those 2 stress tests they did either. That was just sick with players.
WoW certainly has the dominant market share position and is what every other MMO is reaching for. I do believe that have a ton more servers than most.
The NGE was custom made to try and pull subs from WoW...of course it failed miserably.
You have the customer base that you got. SOE's words. Too bad hindsight is 20/20.
And yet on Naritus (way down there in very light status) we have 40 on 40 PvP going on, and 6 or 7 instance groups going from what I have seen tonight. Is that alot no, but I was only in Restuss and did a couple instances tonight so far. And you know what, not one NPC spawned in a rock, no problems with any of the instances, I did not see one rubberband, PvP was fun and people in the game were having fun.
Message edited by Ink-powa on 04/29/2008 16:57:08.
We need to post a thread where the devs can actually find all the bugs in one spot.. please reply with any bugs you find so far.
Here's what i found within the last 15 minutes of PVP:
Pets not regenerating.
Heals/Specials STILL NOT GOING OFF since at least pub 29... come on
Pets still being bugged after combat (this means you cant call them again... gives message "calling companion.." and it takes forEVER
Bounty Check, cool down will go off without any fugitive.
This isnt made as a mock to the "bug list" apparently already put in place ingame where you can report the bugs, its so that you can see just how many there are since more people post on here then /report in game im sure.
Comments
Cut, pasted, and slightly edited from another post:
I think people calling for a "return to the pre-CU game" are asking for the wrong thing. Considering that the game engine is now five years old and the original code is apparently not suitable for any realistic, significant improvement, I think we're all better off just leaving SWG, letting it shut down, and putting our hopes into some new form of "SWG 2" with new code, new engine, updated features, etc. Maybe put our hopes into whatever Bioware is making, which may or may not be based on Star Wars. All the major overhaul this game needs apparently just can't be done with the current game's setup. If the game is still having all these problems 5 years later, I don't think it can ever be fixed.
I say all this because I played SWG from 10 days after launch up until December of 2004, so I never saw all the CU-NGE-expansion stuff....until today (4/27/08). I downloaded the trial because a friend and I are on a bit of a Star wars kick, and read some good things about the current SWG. When I logged in, my characters from 3.5 years ago were still there (even sitting in the same spot I left them), and except for JtL, I didn't really see anything different from when I played. The npcs and missions were still dumb as rocks, there was nobody around on Starsider except for a couple of towns on Tatooine, and I just wasn't very impressed (and remember, I was essentially playing the old SWG). My point is, that while I was completely addicted to SWG back then and still remember it with fond memories and nostalgia, it just wasn't a very good game even before the CU and NGE.
Now, almost 5 years and two major debacles later, still seeing bugs unfixed, the AI still terrible, still no GCW, and "revamps" being done over and over (with more promised), I think it's been reasonably established that the game can't be improved in any significant way -- thus my call (among many) to let SWG die and look forward to a new Star Wars MMO.
We don't have to play SWG just because we like Star Wars. The sooner we let this game go away, the sooner a new Star Wars game will be made.
Rip
Even the more populated servers have empty cities on a constant basis. It is nothing like the old days when every NPC city was packed with players who had an identity attached to to the city and planet they started on. The numbers have been tweaked to reflect heavy or medium. There are no full servers at prime. And major PvP events that players take part in can crash the server just like the wookie protest did when they wanted armor.
I actually logged in to see how things were this weekend.
I couldn't play on any of my regular accounts (that's a story about SOE support that will be published later), so I created a free 14-day trial account.
On the newb space station, I only saw 1 other player the entire time I was there. I ran through it 2 times to get 2 characters beyond the worst of the newb levels.
The servers throughout much of the weekend looked like the 1st screen-shot, not the one posted later on. Very light loads on most of the servers, light loads on some, medium on 2-3, and the only server with any real action... looked like a Euro server.
If I were a new player, this would be pretty discouraging, imho.
And yes, preCU, the starter towns would've been pretty packed. Obviously there were some areas that were 'less traveled', but I don't recall ghost towns like there are now.
I hit up the top 10 hotspots (dying while trying to get to a few of them, due to my level, of course)... again, 1-3 people at a few of those places.
PvP = Restuss. If there was PvP anywhere else... I guess there was a 'Fight Club' somewhere.
I'm not saying that there are only 6,000 people playing. But if there are many more than that, I sure didn't see them.
Don't forget all the threads where people complain about how empty servers are. We see the same thing when we do trials ect, so no matter what the fans say the game is struggling. The only ones living in a dream world are them. It's not what it once was, and never will be. Even the few people in my old guild who swore there was plenty of fun to be had have now left. I thought I would never see the day.
I am not surprised the populations are so low, and they are very LOW. The game isn't fun. If you don't even compare it to Pre-CU and just compare it to WoW, the game fails miserably. At this point, SWG is closest to Vanguard.
Bugged, empty, and with a HORRIBLE reputation for being mishandled.
It's very unfortunate and it pains me to see my day 2 toons sitting there wasting away but I can't pay for a game that offers so little fun gameplay.
Every time someone pays for a server transfer or goes out of their way to hype up a tiny instance the developers added it just reinforces how easily manipulated some consumers can be...
Fanboism really is a strange phenomenom. It's very similar to Stockholm Syndrome.
Tecmo Bowl.
And what is the syndrome associated with beating a dead horse, Thunderous?
Not sure, I don't think there is one. Truth is never a dead horse now is it, Dae?
Tecmo Bowl.
Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
--------
Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
First one to get all philosophical about a video game wins!
SOE/LA work product in regards to ROI speaks for itself. Subs are way down since the NGE and declining further by referencing the calls for server merges. This title has been decimated.
--------
Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
If i actually want to see other players anywhere, i go play WoW. If i want to be (almost) alone in a big virtual world i start SWG. I'm almost beyond clueless why i still (somewhat) care and play SWG. The latest chapter for example is a nice joke of those devs, you have to search to discover any content in it. May the Force be with Bioware..
I dunno, I thought the SWG server population discussion was over about 2 years ago when everyone who had 1 year subs from prior to NGE let them expire. I will relate a short story for you though: I play SWG on and off, as I have mentioned before. The first time I took a break was during Christmas 2003, when I got tired of the holo-grind and what it was doing to the game, after that I was on a rolling cycle of about 3 months in game, 3 months out of game. Post-NGE I run about 3 months out of game to 1 month in. Every time I have returned since that first Christmas (basically less than 1 year after launch), I have asked where the population has gone. Every time I read statements on populations, I think back to all the time I have left and returned to a game which, in my eyes, has had a steadily decreasing population since that first break back in Dec 2003. So the reality to me is that the game has never had a stellar subscription base and if you didn't know people that were in game, then you were going to live a lonely life on some pretty barren planets.Not sure, I don't think there is one. Truth is never a dead horse now is it, Dae?
I'm sure if I had stuck with the same crowd from day one, I would have a different view, but in the end I just don't think the game measured up to all it was cracked up to be, both positive and negative, pre-CU, CU, or NGE. Why do I keep going back? Because I really like JTL. It's as simple as that. I suck at space pvp, but I just like the JTL part of SWG and have been hooked on it since my first ACE.
I dunno, I thought the SWG server population discussion was over about 2 years ago when everyone who had 1 year subs from prior to NGE let them expire. I will relate a short story for you though: I play SWG on and off, as I have mentioned before. The first time I took a break was during Christmas 2003, when I got tired of the holo-grind and what it was doing to the game, after that I was on a rolling cycle of about 3 months in game, 3 months out of game. Post-NGE I run about 3 months out of game to 1 month in. Every time I have returned since that first Christmas (basically less than 1 year after launch), I have asked where the population has gone. Every time I read statements on populations, I think back to all the time I have left and returned to a game which, in my eyes, has had a steadily decreasing population since that first break back in Dec 2003. So the reality to me is that the game has never had a stellar subscription base and if you didn't know people that were in game, then you were going to live a lonely life on some pretty barren planets.Not sure, I don't think there is one. Truth is never a dead horse now is it, Dae?
I'm sure if I had stuck with the same crowd from day one, I would have a different view, but in the end I just don't think the game measured up to all it was cracked up to be, both positive and negative, pre-CU, CU, or NGE. Why do I keep going back? Because I really like JTL. It's as simple as that. I suck at space pvp, but I just like the JTL part of SWG and have been hooked on it since my first ACE.
Space was the only thing that kept me playing after the NGE hit. Then the dark times on Kauri started in regards to players leaving either via quitting outright for the majority or culminating to the last few large guilds en mass transferring to another server.
Populations will decline somewhat over time for all MMO's. (WoW being the exception obviously to the rules in many areas now in the industry.
The thing with SWG is that you can clearly point to game decisions for the triggers for the population decline.
--------
Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
I don't know about WoW being the exception. The server I poke around on seems to be pretty flat in terms of growth and most players I run into are like, "you are a true newb and not an alt?" I always took that as a sign of the population, but recently someone said it may be because I played WoW in closed beta I know more about it than most "true newbs." I can say that beta had more people online at any given time than my current server, and I'm not talking those 2 stress tests they did either. That was just sick with players.
WoW certainly has the dominant market share position and is what every other MMO is reaching for. I do believe that have a ton more servers than most.
The NGE was custom made to try and pull subs from WoW...of course it failed miserably.
You have the customer base that you got. SOE's words. Too bad hindsight is 20/20.
--------
Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/posts/list.m?topic_id=654764
Message edited by Ink-powa on 04/29/2008 16:57:08.
We need to post a thread where the devs can actually find all the bugs in one spot.. please reply with any bugs you find so far.
Here's what i found within the last 15 minutes of PVP:
Pets not regenerating.
Heals/Specials STILL NOT GOING OFF since at least pub 29... come on
Pets still being bugged after combat (this means you cant call them again... gives message "calling companion.." and it takes forEVER
Bounty Check, cool down will go off without any fugitive.
This isnt made as a mock to the "bug list" apparently already put in place ingame where you can report the bugs, its so that you can see just how many there are since more people post on here then /report in game im sure.