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Cool High Level Content?
DrWalnut
Member CommonPosts: 133
I was wondering if in the high game of this game if you fight things that are "cool". In WoW and many other MMOs, when you are in the high level content (not max level content) you fight things similar to all the other levels. In WoW's 60's, you are still fighting boars, spiders, etc; when I would much rather be fighting cool stuff like giants and such. Does DDO suffer from lame high-end mobs? What kind of stuff is often fought near the end? Thanks.
Comments
I have played WoW several times. I purchased the game at launch and played for a month. Every 4-5 months I would then resub for a month. Each time I could not get into it for more then a week. I believe I've subbed to WoW a total of 4 months since launch - this being said, please forgive me if these are my only accounts of the game.
WoW is extremly simple and is designed towards the lowest denominator, which is why it's insanely popular. You pull single mobs, hit an attack button then wait for another attack button.
There are lots of mobs in DDO. While you do see goblins or ogres through most levels they really don't change much other then their level (refered to as CR). Giants are similar yet you don't start seeing them till around lvl 6-7. The higher level mobs that you find in, say, Running With the Devils, aren't going to be present in lower quests 'cs they just too damned powerful. And Mindflayers...thankfully they're not common.
For the most part, the combat in DDO is more fluid then WoW. This and the scripted environments provide for that level of dynamics that you're asking about. WoW seemed too stale for me since everything felt like everything else in the game but with a different color scheme.
One thing to note is that the character development in DDO is ridiculously dynamic. You can multi class, cross specialize and create completely unique character builds of which you could only dream of in WoW. The character development process is only second to EVE Online; would have been close to pre-cu SWG, but that game was cancled.
I belivee most people play DDO because of the heavy tactile feel of the combat system, the dyanmics of character development and the Grade A dungeons which have got to be the best directed experiances for any online game currently on the market.
How long does it usually take to hit the level cap on a character?
Would you say DDO has the best dungeons of any MMORPG out there?
level cap - 2 days to 2 years depending on your playstyle.
I thought I had. I can't think of anything remotely as good as the experiance provided in DDO. It's like a narrated choose your own adventure of sorts. You enter, identify your mission objectives and do your best to complete them. It's not always a run from point A to point B and midlessly kill everything along the way. There tend to be plenty of obstacles along the way that include some very nasty traps, ledges and cliffs to avoid falling from, along with occasional ambushes.
If you haven't played it before and WoW is coming across as being grossly simple then DDO could very well be for you. Keep in mind that the steapest part of DDO's learning curve is identifying a character build that suits your playstyle and learning how to develop a strategy with your fellow players on the fly. Thankfully the game is a little forgiving in the lower level of dungeons.
What effect does Jump have in WoW? In DDO it's a dynamic skill that directly relates its self into the game play experiance. Jumping to grab the ledge to disable a trap or leaping over the Ogre boss who's going to pound you - what other MMO has jump tied into navigating your environment while providing an affect on the combat mechanics?
Give this thread some time and you'll be getting more responces.
DDO, although I don't play it anymore, has the best High lvl content of any MMO in my opinion. This entertainment is further augmented by its insanely in depth and real time combat system. But yes, there are incredible mobs to fight in all of the raids and high level dungeons. Hitting cap depends on your skill level and knowledge of the game more than how much time you have. So for a beginner I'd estimate it would probably take you 2-3 weeks of casual play to hit cap, maybe a little longer but it's not too difficult.
In short, DDO takes skill, intelligence, and experience to be successful, unlike WoW...therefore it's more fun for people over the age of 12.
As far as character development you are spot on. It is impossible in WoW to screw up a character beyond repair, because all characters of a particular class and race minus their gear are totally and absolutely identical, with the only variations you have (talents) being completely respec-able for a fee (which increases each time you do it, but it still can be done). Contrast that to DDO where it is completely possible to make a character that is totally unsalvageable with no possible way of fixing it, e.g. build a rogue with 18 WIS and put all your skill points in jump, listen and swim and see how far you get.
DDO has the best dungeons out there by far IMO. They are all unique and well scripted, and very nicely detailed graphically. The only minus is that there are only ~200 dungeons total, and that is all there is... not much in the way of exploration/travel and no resource gathering/crafting until you get into the last three zones at which point it gets completely riddikulus (get 20 of these, 20 of those, and 20 of that, each of which drops a couple per quest, and then we'll let you into the raid. Alternatively you can get 140 of these and trade in 3 for 1 for those or that).
Is DDO the kind of game that catches your attention early on? Does it suck at first and then get really good? I don't like how so many MMOs make it so you have to put days and weeks into a character before you can do the fun stuff, usually the end-game content.
DDO for a new player looking to get away from the EQ/WoW clone MMO's is one of the best games out imo. Eve and DDO are the two modern games that are really impressive at what they do.
My favorite parts of DDO in no particular order:
Amazing quests in all level ranges.
Incredible character development options.
Combat that is real time and fast paced.
Great Community.
I just recently resubbed to the game and I have been very impressed at how its grown since launch day. You can get to level cap now without having to repeat a single quest. Its obviously benefiting from the code that is going into LoTRO and tweaked to DDO which means even more great feature changes down the pike for DDO.
To the OP just try the Free Trial and you will know within a hour if this is a game that is your cup of tea or not. good luck.
I'm going to download the trial to see if I like this or not.
Are there any class/race recommendations for a newbie; races/classes to get a good feel of DDO?
As far as character development you are spot on. It is impossible in WoW to screw up a character beyond repair, because all characters of a particular class and race minus their gear are totally and absolutely identical, with the only variations you have (talents) being completely respec-able for a fee (which increases each time you do it, but it still can be done). Contrast that to DDO where it is completely possible to make a character that is totally unsalvageable with no possible way of fixing it, e.g. build a rogue with 18 WIS and put all your skill points in jump, listen and swim and see how far you get.
My experiance in WoW other then what I prevsiouly stated consists of playing 8-10 different characters. Unfortunately I had lost interest in the game whlie not leveling anything higher then lvl 17. This might make a little more sense as why I felt it was simplisitc since I had not experianced the game at the higher levels.
And to the OP, as stated, it is easy to screw up a character in DDO. For example, making your fighter with an 8 str and con and putting all the points into Int and Cha might be a bad decision. This opened ended character development is pretty darned sweet. If you do not understand how to build a D&D character the default builds are a respectable choice since they will play well enough as you level up.
I suppose the tactile combat system of DDO has a lot to do with the feeling of dynamics. It just never felt like I was in control and merely watched what happend in WoW - oddly enough, this is also what a lot of people say about EVE Online which is pretty amazing once you see the depth of it.
Race choice doesn't matter a great deal starting out, but dwarves are the current favorite due to some extra enhancements that are available to them if you take the toughness feat (gobs of hit points).
For a caster, I would advise a Wizard till you understand how to play that roll. The Sorcerer is more of a combat nuking type of caster and has more spell points but is greatly limited on spell selections.
Fighters are, well you can apply anything you learned of figher classes in other mmo's to DDO. This might also apply to Barbarians.
Bards are like a cross between a paladin and a cleric. Healing and buffing along with the abillity to lock down opponets through playing songs...
Rangers and rogues are unsung heros with tremendous dmg potential and crazy reflexes. Their function is similar in most rpg environments.
And I'm sure you know what a Cleric or Paladin does.
Just remember this, you are not limited in any way other then what you can imagine to do with a build. You can multi class with up to 3 different classes in a single chatacter. This provides for some crazy specialized builds that work great for a few while poorly for many. For instance, I play a battle-sorcerer that wears armor and wields rapiers (strictly for additional debuffs) while maintaining massive nuking potential and a heavy arsenal of negative energy debuffs.
The races also have a slight effect upon the builds and there's many ways you can mix-max your character to suit your play style.
If you only made it to 17 you've really only scratched the surface... the serious ganking doesn't start until you are in your mid to late 20's.
I'm very interested in the Monk class. That's always the class I like to play in D&D, despite the fact that I've heard that people who prefer monks are rare. I'm thinking of rolling a fighter, barbarian, or paladin on a trial account to get a feel for the game before the monk class comes out. Are there any monk builds up from the test center? I want to know how I'm going to build my monk before I actually start the character. Do you think the monk patch will come out this month?
my guess monk will need a 2-4 more months but relly got no clue could be 3 days could be 1 year havnt seen a offcial date from reliable source yet.
paladins:most call paladins gimpadins, but its all aboute the weapons so dont let me stop you. a paladine should always max out str17 or 18.
ranger: specilsing in 2 weapons fighting is after last couple of updates insanely powerful. try make a dwarf ranger specilsing in axes or a elf specilsing in rapiers and youll do fine. ranged damage is basically only for a few raid bosses wich if you go near you die on these a ranger is very needed. everyone and their grandma wants rapiers so much easier find dwarven axes for a dwarf reccomended for new player.
barbarians: do high damage and have high hp naturally. at max lvls barbarians basically run around naked armour wise they need be abel to kill fast or else they take huge damage. almost all barbarians get atlest lvl14 barbarian (16 lvls total is current max)
fighter:never had a high lvl of these but they do nice damage most seem consider going pure fighter isnt worth it they get a few lvl of somting else.
bard:many disregard bard as a powerful damage dealer, a bard can outperform many other damage dealer if they dont have bard songs and bard has. not a bad choise for a new player max str high con and concentrate on doing damage. battle bard is pretty rare. 2 weapons or 2handed weapon reccomended. getting high enough hp/damage is very important. id reccmend dwarf or human.
all of the melee classes do higher max damage with 2 weapons fighting at high lvls is were this works best though(1 weapon in each hand require high base dex and str) dwarf have a easier time finding weapons for this as a new player. i would reccomend chosing dwarf ranger 11 wis 17dex 16 str 12 con might hafto twink stas slightly but if i remember correctly thats a 28 pointer build. but im not a expert on rangers and puting stats by someone elses preferences isnt ideal as you dont know why you get the diffrent numbers.
As for cool high level content, I only have one thing to say: VON
As you level, you will encounter different creatures. The first time I got to face down a beholder was a rush, even if it did kill me twice, that bastard. There are moments where you see a new critter and your eyes wanna pop out of your head because you've never seen it before now. You're still going to be seeing some of the same monsters, but they'll be a lot tougher, or a different variety. The low-level dungeons are simplistic, but they're all different. You get to the cool stuff fairly quickly, and you'll probably be able to do your first raid around level 9 or 10.
For your first class...well, it would depend on your play style. If you want to solo for a while, try a cleric, paladin, or bard. All three can easily self-heal and are pretty self-sufficient. You won't be able to do much for locks or traps, but you'll get through. I somewhat disagree with the person who said that if you roll a bard to max out the strength. If you play a bard and use Charisma as your dump stat, you're going to end up with a somewhat squishy fighter whose spells are good for a whole lot of nothing. The easiest would be a tank class. If you want to be popular, play a cleric. You'll always have a group and you'll be able to wear the heavy armor, not to mention some really cool offensive spells. Things like Flame Strike and Slay Living. Turn Undead is always useful, too. No matter which class you pick, pay close attention to which stats affect what abilities for your character.
So you don't have to be at the max level to raid?
If you didn't know a raid in DDO is just two full groups combined. So, 12 people.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong on levels....
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Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.
Nope! Tempest's Spine will likely be your first raid around 9-11. Around 11 or 12, you should have no problem getting to do the Vault of Night raid (red dragon and it's a bitch to kill!). All raids except Tempest Spine have prerequisites, mostly quests you need to do in order to get flagged. If you're a hardcore player, you should be raiding in no time. You level fairly quickly if you're doing quests that are at your level or slightly above.
So basically you judged WoW based on an experience equivalent to 3.5 levels of DDO. I'm guessing you also never grouped with anyone or did any instances.
The thing about WoW is, you can play the game in easy mode, only soloing easy mobs and playing it safe all the way. You can also do more challenging things, like running instances in level-appropriate parties, PvP, raiding, gathering resources in dangerous areas ... the list goes on. The rewards for more challenging activities are often higher, and the fun-factor is always more rewarding.
But there are a lot of people who only take the path of least resistance, have a mediocre game experience, and come away with a bland taste in their mouth. You get out what you put in.
I'm not saying DDO is awful, but it doesn't make sense to say it's better than WoW. Especially when you haven't really played WoW. Really, the games are good at different things.
As for making a system where it's easy to screw up your character: How is that a good thing? To my mind, if there is a "best" way to specify your character, that leaves the player with fewer choices while giving the illusion of more. Not a great way to run a game, if you ask me.
Tempest Spine is likely to be your first raid. I ran this as a lvl 7 cleric. As a matter of fact, the highest level party member was lvl 8 and we had a good time without any party wipes.
Raid are balanced for more party members above the standard 6 with a maximum of 12. These tend to be longer quests with some having pre-requisits that need to be repeated inorder to repeat the raid.
The Vault of Night series is a 5 part quest with the first 4 parts being standard quests. You can also do these at and around lvl 8.
I'm guessing you also never grouped with anyone or did any instances.
The thing about WoW is, you can play the game in easy mode, only soloing easy mobs and playing it safe all the way. You can also do more challenging things, like running instances in level-appropriate parties, PvP, raiding, gathering resources in dangerous areas ... the list goes on. The rewards for more challenging activities are often higher, and the fun-factor is always more rewarding.
I'm not saying DDO is awful, but it doesn't make sense to say it's better than WoW. Especially when you haven't really played WoW. Really, the games are good at different things.
As for making a system where it's easy to screw up your character: How is that a good thing? To my mind, if there is a "best" way to specify your character, that leaves the player with fewer choices while giving the illusion of more. Not a great way to run a game, if you ask me.
Making assumptions - pot calling kettle black?
yes, I had grouped plenty of times and had fun since they were people I knew from other games. I did very little soloing in WoW. That doesn't say I hadn't played alone but in fact was grouped most of time when I had played it. The best feel of the game was when groups we envolved but this applies to almost ALL online games.
I have no interest in PvP. There's no risk vs reward. If players aren't losing their gear or suffering adversly or aquiring something worthwhile from their defeated opponets it doesn't interest me. I prefer the EVE Online method of PvP yet occasionaly enjoy the capture the flag PvP system in DDO.
Gathering materials was not fun. I'm sure it could be, but it wasn't to me because I was unable to develop a long term interest in the game environment. On the other hand, I used to play a crafter in pre-cu Star Wars Galaxies and absolutely loved that old system of material aquisition and crafting.
Never done any raids in WoW.
Keep in mind that I'm not saying WoW is a crappy game since I believe otherwise. The relevance here is it does not appeal to me. Why? Cause it feels simple and repetative. Does that mean it's a bad game? Of course not. It's a matter of perception that I gained from tying the game on multiple occasions over a few years. Do I think DDO is better? Absoultely! But does this mean that DDO is more polished then WoW? no.
DDO has a greater feeling of dynamics and strategy out of the gate where apparently you only get this feeling from WoW when you raid & PvP at higher levels. This sounds like a design flaw in WoW, but it's also a way to gradually introduce players into those areas of the game as to not overwhelm them - WoW is generically designed for the lowest denominator, and it's succesful for this.
And why doesn't it make sense to say DDO is better then WoW - Are you saying everyone who plays DDO and not WoW is stupid? I disagree 'cs DDO *is* a lot more fun. I've never felt like strategy was part of the game experiance in WoW other then employing the technique of pulling one mob that was in a group of many - try this in DDO, I dare you!
You're correct, the two games are good at different things. WoW is a model of excellence on how to design, develop, and produce a polished gaming environment that appeals to a large audience that requires little apptitude to enjoy it. This is what makes WoW a huge success with 6-10 mil subscribers whereas Turbine probally has something between 50-100k for DDO. *apples to oranges*
Obviously DDO appeals to a different audience and does not cater to a simplistic gaming experiance to introduce players to the game. It starts out with those potentially confusing dynamics immediately upon character creation. This is why it appeals to me more then WoW does.
Allowing for unbridled dynamics across ALL spectrums is a good thing. Game designers frequently develop content that players use in every way other then what was intended. This is common place and is frequently the cause for new found exploits of game mechanics. Turbine has opened it up to allow players to create characters without any boundries other then the basic core rules (which they occasionaly tweak to enhance the game play) that allows for you, him, her and I to create and develop characters that someone with a paper cert never would have imagined we'd want to play.
Can you multi class in WoW to make a Mage-fighter hybrid chracter, what about making a Druid/Rogue/mage multi class character? If you can do this in WoW then I'll agree I should look at the game again 'cs my understanding was I had to play a mage as they determined a mage should be played and I did not enjoy that. More specifically, are you able to learn or develop skills from the other classes in WoW if you are not of the same class? (sorry if these questions sound lame, understand I have limited experiance with WoW)
Walnut, sorry to crack your nut with the offtopic post.
<blockquote><i>Originally posted by mindspat</i>
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<p>And I'm sure you know what a Cleric or Paladin does.
Maybe not since in WoW the classes are designed so well that many times people take paladins for main healers over priests....
^ My main is a 70 Holy specced Paladin and that is true about being picked for healing ^
I don;t know I am kinda with Mind on this one, I tried WoW during the trial, nothing reached out and grabbed me, felt like I was seeing nothing new.
If I am not having fun for the early levels there is no way I am going to "work" my way up to have fun, end of story.