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Five MMOs > WoW?
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And a large force of the Asian players are from China, where they only have to pay $2 to $3 per month where the rest of us have to pay $15.
What does that have to do with anything..?
I was responding to neonaka on that one, but I think players should be aware of Blizzards little secret when they broke into the China market. And the flood of gold sellers and hackers that flooded MMO's after that.
Sorry...what little secret? Blizzard has actually confirmed how many players are from China in press releases.I don't even understand why the whole asian thing is brought up in the first place
"Ohh! but a number of people are from china!"
ehm..okay...so what?
Well if you consider that WoW has the most subscriptions, and can be considered the market leader, of course the author is going to use WoW as a focus.
And for the sake of argument let me quote myself "I THINK the author of the article was just trying to point out that there are alternatives to WoW in the market today" which by using the word THINK I made it my opinion. But my post was in reply of your post, which we know was substantial, based on facts, and was not biased in the slightest.
Once again, may we all bow down to the market leader Blizzard for providing us the best most righteous koolist awesome game that is monkie friendly.
My point isn't the fact it uses WoW, my point is that the article claims those MMO's are better then WoW for only one reason.
No it doesn't say those MMO's are better then WoW overall. It says 5 games better then WoW and then lists them in categories which means they are better then WoW in those categories. He is using a writing style to capture people's attention in the title by being vague and then ties it into his article by clarifying what he means. The tone of the article comes across that the Author probably thinks that WoW is the best overall (since he picks it as the one to beat) and even probably thinks they are the next best game in eachof those categories.
I am not sure about that last choice of DOMO but some of his choices are spot on. For instance if you wantd to play a game based solely on which game has the greatest lore and handles that lore the best then LOTRO would be your best choice, with WoW or EQ2 probably next. If you wanted to play a game solely based on the best PVE Raiding then yes Everquest has the best raids of any MMO made. They were the most epic and they have the most raiding content. If you wanted to play the best game based solely on PVP then Dark Age of Camelot is the best bet.
See what you are assuming is they mean all around those games are better but that isn't what the writer stated at all. And I quote:
"Find out what MMO we think does raiding better than WoW ==>>"
See that they state right there that they mean does raiding better and then talk about EQ1.
Not really. If they were trying to argue that those games are better then WoW in just one aspects, the correct sentence would be: "Here then, are five MMOs better than WoW in certain aspects", Not just "Here then, are five MMOs better than WoW"
But aside from that point, I find it hard to take the article seriously. "the maximum size for new raids is an incredible 54 people". That is hardly impressive when you consider that Lineage 2 has 150+ man raids.
I think you are arguing just for the sake of arguing...The intent of the article is very easy to pull out from the text and layout. It is basic writing 101...The title is used as an "attention statement" which is then elaborated on with transitory statements in between the game descriptions. It is an opinion peice not a vehicle manual. Can you truely imagine if people actually wrote in the manner you suggest....
Answers like this are typical of the WoW genre.......thus the Epeen was born.
No one is saying WoW suXXors like you seem to hate LoTRO and others, they are saying that WoW is not the only MMO on the block. Are you afraid all of you buddies will leave the game at the first drop of a new title? Honestly the WoW crowd is the most fickle of them all coupled with ADD, ADHD, and OCD they tend to wander from title to title after the lead lemming points one way or another.
And btw I have 3 level 70 characters on WoW, had fun, but time has come to move on. Because frankly the end game is the same wash, rinse, repeat 1 gadzillion times at the end game. And I am bored out of my mind doing the same encounters just with an ever so slightly different graphic over and over and over again. WoW will occupy many people for a long time, but when you get bored there are plenty of quality MMO's on the market, WoW is NOT the only quality game out there.
I just have to ask, did you actually read my post first before you hit the reply button or do you just feel a strong need to post just random things? Let me quote a part of the post I was replying to:"Don't be fooled, TRUE MMORPG-customers who DID NOT start off playing World of Warcraft, are populating other games, not WoW..."
That's exactly what I was replying to and is indeed bashing WoW as a game that does not appeal to "True MMORPG gamers" which is ofcourse downright ridiculous.
I never even mentioned the quality of those other games.
Actually I do read your posts, and thoroughly it is the same theme over and over and over again.............."WoW RoXXers and all other MMO's are WoW clones!!!!"
You seem self bent on the mission to make sure everyone knows that WoW is the only game for them and they will like it whether or not they want to. And gratz on the typical "do you even read my post response" rather than deal with the subject. What is next? Maybe my spelling or grammer? Or attack the games I play, or better yet look me up on armory in the WoW and say how much I suck?
But all in all we get it.......you LUV WoW, it is the game of YOU, it RoXXers, but the point the rest of us try to make is if WoW is not for you or if you have burned out, try other games, there are lots on the market. Do NOT by the HYPE there is only one game, WoW is fun, but like any other game it gets old after awhile. You can always cancel and come back if it is the right game for you.
Because unlike you I don't think it is fair that I pay $15 a month while the chinese gold farming bot running hacker pays $2.
Keep standing up for fair trade while you suck on that lead based lollipop with shards of metal in it. And btw that is a description of actual product that was shipped from China. In reality Gameloading, I think you are arrogant but I wish no harm to you.
Answers like this are typical of the WoW genre.......thus the Epeen was born.
No one is saying WoW suXXors like you seem to hate LoTRO and others, they are saying that WoW is not the only MMO on the block. Are you afraid all of you buddies will leave the game at the first drop of a new title? Honestly the WoW crowd is the most fickle of them all coupled with ADD, ADHD, and OCD they tend to wander from title to title after the lead lemming points one way or another.
And btw I have 3 level 70 characters on WoW, had fun, but time has come to move on. Because frankly the end game is the same wash, rinse, repeat 1 gadzillion times at the end game. And I am bored out of my mind doing the same encounters just with an ever so slightly different graphic over and over and over again. WoW will occupy many people for a long time, but when you get bored there are plenty of quality MMO's on the market, WoW is NOT the only quality game out there.
I just have to ask, did you actually read my post first before you hit the reply button or do you just feel a strong need to post just random things? Let me quote a part of the post I was replying to:"Don't be fooled, TRUE MMORPG-customers who DID NOT start off playing World of Warcraft, are populating other games, not WoW..."
That's exactly what I was replying to and is indeed bashing WoW as a game that does not appeal to "True MMORPG gamers" which is ofcourse downright ridiculous.
I never even mentioned the quality of those other games.
The whole term "True MMORPG Gamers" is just a bunch of crap you're trying to push on us. You use it to define itself in a way. ex: A True MMORPG Gamer is someone who wouldn't start playing MMORPGS with Wow. Then use it as no True MMORPG Gamer would start playing wow, as if your term had an ounce of validity. Think you just shot yourself in the foot while having your foot in your mouth.
Answers like this are typical of the WoW genre.......thus the Epeen was born.
No one is saying WoW suXXors like you seem to hate LoTRO and others, they are saying that WoW is not the only MMO on the block. Are you afraid all of you buddies will leave the game at the first drop of a new title? Honestly the WoW crowd is the most fickle of them all coupled with ADD, ADHD, and OCD they tend to wander from title to title after the lead lemming points one way or another.
And btw I have 3 level 70 characters on WoW, had fun, but time has come to move on. Because frankly the end game is the same wash, rinse, repeat 1 gadzillion times at the end game. And I am bored out of my mind doing the same encounters just with an ever so slightly different graphic over and over and over again. WoW will occupy many people for a long time, but when you get bored there are plenty of quality MMO's on the market, WoW is NOT the only quality game out there.
I just have to ask, did you actually read my post first before you hit the reply button or do you just feel a strong need to post just random things? Let me quote a part of the post I was replying to:"Don't be fooled, TRUE MMORPG-customers who DID NOT start off playing World of Warcraft, are populating other games, not WoW..."
That's exactly what I was replying to and is indeed bashing WoW as a game that does not appeal to "True MMORPG gamers" which is ofcourse downright ridiculous.
I never even mentioned the quality of those other games.
Actually I do read your posts, and thoroughly it is the same theme over and over and over again.............."WoW RoXXers and all other MMO's are WoW clones!!!!"
You seem self bent on the mission to make sure everyone knows that WoW is the only game for them and they will like it whether or not they want to. And gratz on the typical "do you even read my post response" rather than deal with the subject. What is next? Maybe my spelling or grammer? Or attack the games I play, or better yet look me up on armory in the WoW and say how much I suck?
But all in all we get it.......you LUV WoW, it is the game of YOU, it RoXXers, but the point the rest of us try to make is if WoW is not for you or if you have burned out, try other games, there are lots on the market. Do NOT by the HYPE there is only one game, WoW is fun, but like any other game it gets old after awhile. You can always cancel and come back if it is the right game for you.
Okay, lets go over your posts shall we?First you claim the article is merely pointing out alternatives, which I have already adressed. then you claim
"But as far as your point.............ya, ya, ya................we get it, WoW is absolutely the most outrightly best most polished wonderful awesome totally bitching rocking game that is on the market, and it RoXXers so much nothing will ever replace it"
That doesn't have anything to do with the point I was making. My whole point is that it's absolutely ridiculous to claim mmo A is better then MMO B (or a good MMO) all because of one feature.
What in heavens name was the point of posting that? It's sad that your posts are this "We get it, you like WoW" I mean, that's not even the point I'm trying to make here.
I have NEVER discouraged people to look at other MMO's or that people shouldn't go player other mmorpg's if they like certain aspects (PVP, for instance). My whole point is that it's silly to claim an MMO is better then another mmorpg just because of one aspect, like this article is claiming.
Because unlike you I don't think it is fair that I pay $15 a month while the chinese gold farming bot running hacker pays $2.
Keep standing up for fair trade while you suck on that lead based lollipop with shards of metal in it. And btw that is a description of actual product that was shipped from China. In reality Gameloading, I think you are arrogant but I wish no harm to you.
The whole economy is different in china, for pete's sake. But please, feel free to continue making assumptions about me.
Answers like this are typical of the WoW genre.......thus the Epeen was born.
No one is saying WoW suXXors like you seem to hate LoTRO and others, they are saying that WoW is not the only MMO on the block. Are you afraid all of you buddies will leave the game at the first drop of a new title? Honestly the WoW crowd is the most fickle of them all coupled with ADD, ADHD, and OCD they tend to wander from title to title after the lead lemming points one way or another.
And btw I have 3 level 70 characters on WoW, had fun, but time has come to move on. Because frankly the end game is the same wash, rinse, repeat 1 gadzillion times at the end game. And I am bored out of my mind doing the same encounters just with an ever so slightly different graphic over and over and over again. WoW will occupy many people for a long time, but when you get bored there are plenty of quality MMO's on the market, WoW is NOT the only quality game out there.
I just have to ask, did you actually read my post first before you hit the reply button or do you just feel a strong need to post just random things? Let me quote a part of the post I was replying to:"Don't be fooled, TRUE MMORPG-customers who DID NOT start off playing World of Warcraft, are populating other games, not WoW..."
That's exactly what I was replying to and is indeed bashing WoW as a game that does not appeal to "True MMORPG gamers" which is ofcourse downright ridiculous.
I never even mentioned the quality of those other games.
Bullshit. Meridion clearly said: "Don't be fooled, TRUE MMORPG-customers who DID NOT start off playing World of Warcraft, are populating other games, not WoW..."The whole term "True MMORPG Gamers" is just a bunch of crap you're trying to push on us. You use it to define itself in a way. ex: A True MMORPG Gamer is someone who wouldn't start playing MMORPGS with Wow. Then use it as no True MMORPG Gamer would start playing wow, as if your term had an ounce of validity. Think you just shot yourself in the foot while having your foot in your mouth.
Before he edited his post, which is saying that true mmorpg players who started playing mmo's before WoW aren't playing WoW, which is simply downright incorrect.
Because unlike you I don't think it is fair that I pay $15 a month while the chinese gold farming bot running hacker pays $2.
Keep standing up for fair trade while you suck on that lead based lollipop with shards of metal in it. And btw that is a description of actual product that was shipped from China. In reality Gameloading, I think you are arrogant but I wish no harm to you.
The whole economy is different in china, for pete's sake. But please, feel free to continue making assumptions about me.
Sigh but a little reading up on economics never hurt anyone. Inferior products, corporations take a cut in order to get a foothold into a booming economy, when in reality it is the rest of us subsidizing it.
I have not made any assumptions other then "whoa dude WoW is the Roxxers and nothing will ever replace it!!!!"
OKay first off the article as I have said does NOT say that these games are better then WoW. It says these games are better then WoW and he is why. There is a big difference in those two statements. The writer is speaking specifically about certain aspects of gameplay and not the overall game. So stop argueing against something that just plain isn't being said GL. You can try and convince people but that isn't the intent of the article and the fact that the writer isn't saying that these games are just plain better is pretty clear to anyone that reads the full article.
Secondly the "chinese gold farmers and hackers" do not pay 2 dollars to access the game. They have to pay the same 15 dollars per month as we do. If they pay the 2 dollars to access the game they only get access to the asian version of the game. Where NO one is buying their products. If they want to sell their product on the NA/EU Versions then they have to pay the same amount we do.
Thirdly, really GL no one is claiming these games are better then WoW overall. But just because WoW is the top game on the market does not make it the best game in every category. All it has to do is average out to be the best product. Which means it could very well be 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th best at doing something as long as the total package turns out the best.
Fourth, I do think that the vast majority of "old" MMO players (old meaning pre-WoW) are just waiting for a new decent game to come out to play. I doubt a lot of them will stick with WoW once a game that is as good as WoW comes out. You have even stated before yourself GL about how the vast majority of WoW's subscribers are Blizzard fans and new MMO players who will not leave a Blizzard game and move to a new none Blizzard MMO.
It is highly conceivable (sp?) that according to the only feasible data we have (which is SirBruce's work) that every single WoW subscriber could of never played an MMO before. (now I know this isn't true, since I know plenty of people playing that have) but it could very well be true that the vast majority of "MMO Vets" have moved onto other games beside WoW.
In 2004 there were approximately 6 million MMO subscribers
in 2008 there are Approximately 16 million MMO Subscribers
Whats the difference between 2004 and 2008? Well World of Warcraft of course and how many subscribers does World of Warcraft have? Oh look they have 10 million the exact difference. So that means that all 6 million pre WoW mmo players could conceivably be playing a game other then World of Warcraft.
The most interesting thing about the chart (found here www.mmogchart.com/Chart4.html) is the growth of MMO games has remained the same. So even if World of Warcraft had never came out we could possibly still have 16 million subscribers just spread among the games we currently have. (Which I think is highly possible, I think that the increase is due to cheaper faster internet and cheaper faster equipment and not World of Warcraft itself)
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Umm while there is some truth to what you say, you may also want to read articles like: http://www.redherring.com/Home/14394. It may be a Chinese version of the game, and granted it is reinforced by item and time sales, but all in all they do pay less than the western markets to access the game. And is it any coincedence that the mad influx of hacking, gold farming, and bot gaming hit new heights when that market was opened up? And it is still a method of us subsidizing Blizzard to enter this market so they can get a foothold into the boom, personally that puts a bad taste in my mouth.
Don't bother trying to get him to acknowledge the acutal intended message of the article. There have been several completely sufficient explanations on the matter, but they counter his initial argument so he is going to stick to his guns.
Umm while there is some truth to what you say, you may also want to read articles like: http://www.redherring.com/Home/14394. It may be a Chinese version of the game, and granted it is reinforced by item and time sales, but all in all they do pay less than the western markets to access the game. And is it any coincedence that the mad influx of hacking, gold farming, and bot gaming hit new heights when that market was opened up? And it is still a method of us subsidizing Blizzard to enter this market so they can get a foothold into the boom, personally that puts a bad taste in my mouth.
We are not subsidizing Blizzard in anyway. We pay fair market value for a product in our marketplace just like they pay fair market value in their marketplace.
Secondly you make it sound like they should pay 15 dollars per month which is ridiculous given the difference in per capita income in that region compared to the NA/EU regions.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Cabe, the article DID say those games are better then WoW. I repeat again: "Here are five MMO's that are better than WoW - and Why". You're just simply trying to give a different meaning to the actual word. The correct sentence would be: "Here are five MMO's that are better than WoW in certain aspects".
No you are infering what you want to see.
Anyone that reads that article without bias and tunnel vision will see that the writer is talking about certain aspects of game play. No where in that article does the writer say here are what I consider to be the top 6 MMO games on the market with WoW being number 6.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
So wait a second, you are taking a game that is with a corporation that is based in the western markets utilitzed US dollars to research, create, design, produce, and publish. Then the bean counters factor that to make R&D money back plus pay incomes to US and Euro employees and then make a tidy profit they will charge about $15 (US) per month. Then they take the polished product that was researched, created, designed, produce, and published in US dollars, refine it a little using the money they earned from $15 US dollars a month and open up into China, charging what 14 Yuan? when you run down to the local exchange bank and turn in the 14 Yaun you get $2 US dollars.
China has an explosive economy that will rival the world in the next 10 years to come. Blizzard is only one of thousands of Western companies looking to get a foothold into that economy. In the process they will use western dollars earned to subsidize charging lower fees just to enter the Chinese market.
Personally more restriction should be required due to a country that abuses human rights like a third world totalitarian regime. They use prison labor to make your lead based products. They inadvertantly add poisonous chemicals to their raw supplies via crude mining, harvesting, and process methods. And people need to wake up to what is going on. Next time you see "made in china" stamped on it, just think about the 8 year old child that made it because of parents conscription for crimes against the state.
You aren't understanding how things work. You seem very angry. What do you want Blizzard to do? Charge 15 dollars per month and have no subscribers in that market? That marketplace is designed with f2p + item shops or p2p at an hourly rate games. Blizzard wouldn't get any business if they tried to do as you say. And it isn't just China its all of that region.
Honestly how can you expect someone in Taiwan to pay the same amount as a person does in America when they make 1/3 to 1/6 the amount of money on average. They should pay 1/3 - 1/6 less which works out to around 2-5 dollars per month.
Blizzard isn't subsidizing that market to get a foothold into it. They are pricing themselves competitively against the competition there.
You might of had a point if every other game there charges 15 dollars per month and Blizzard lowered to price to get into the market but that just isn't the case.
Edit **** Also don't be so sure about China's economy rivalying the world in 10 years. They have created an artifically good economy by keeping the value of their money artifically low in relation to other currencies. This has created cheaply produced products that they are able to sell to other nations but those nations are beginning to feel the crunch and will begin to tax those goods pretty heavily until China allows it's currency to fluctuate according to the market. Plus China currently is doing well but will soon reach the point of needing to seriously upgrade internally and that will put a huge strain upon their economy as well.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
No you are infering what you want to see.
Anyone that reads that article without bias and tunnel vision will see that the writer is talking about certain aspects of game play. No where in that article does the writer say here are what I consider to be the top 6 MMO games on the market with WoW being number 6.
GL also needs to realize that out of the 8 or so billion people on planet earth we all have different opinions about things.
Myself for instance think DAoC is a way superior game to wow in all aspects, which is why i quit wow to go back to DAoC. Many others have done the same and many have went back to their respective games not just DAoC.
Alot of people do think WoW is the alpha and omega the beginning and the end, but the fact of the matter is, that it is not.
There are many many great games on the market, that appeal to a great number of people over WoW.
This is proof with EvE's 200k, LotRO 200+k, EQ2 50+k or whatever it is list goes on and on.
All these other games combined may only equal 1-2 million, but that is enough to prove that not everyone shares in the view WoW is GoD.
Anyway, people should just be allowed to play what they like, quit fighting over what is best. None of them are the best. If it were, we would only have 1 MMO on planet earth.
Enough said.
Ok, theres only one way to settle this: Thunderdome, WOW vs. the rest of the genre. Two men...uh, wait...several MMO's enter, one MMO leaves...and winner takes all TEH PHAT LOOTZ!!!1!1
Remind me to start a blog later, about these type of post.
It will be titled "Words that should be banned on a global scale".
Remind me to start a blog later, about these type of post.
It will be titled "Words that should be banned on a global scale".
Oh, sorry. Let me return you to your thread.
"You guys are stupid, WOW is the pinnacle of human evolution. We might as well quit now, while we're ahead, it's not going to get any better..."
"Dude, you're stupid, WOW is teh sukk..."
Better?
I luv WoW... It's a great game
Remind me to start a blog later, about these type of post.
It will be titled "Words that should be banned on a global scale".
Oh, sorry. Let me return you to your thread.
"You guys are stupid, WOW is the pinnacle of human evolution. We might as well quit now, while we're ahead, it's not going to get any better..."
"Dude, you're stupid, WOW is teh sukk..."
Better?
I actually like this post, but I was talking about the highlighted parts to make a blog about, not this wow garbage crap.
Okay now I think I understand the problem with our discussion. I think you are not away of the fact that Blizzard does not run the game in those countries. It has leased the game rights to The9 and another company (I forget the name) to offer the game. Which means the costs for servers, for running the games, for updating the game with patches, etc etc etc is all based there in that economy. Blizzard makes a lot less from the Asian market then they do from the Western Market. (You can look it up on Vivendi's financial reports, I forget the exact amount but it was substantially lower income from Asia even though they have more subscribers there).So once again how can you expect a company (in this case The9) to charge western market prices in the Asian market when their costs are Asian Market costs? If Blizzard was running the servers here in the US and offering it for less in Asia you would have a point. But they do not do that. They don't even run the servers there or provide the support or anything. The9 takes the western version of the game and transfers it over to Chinese. So there is no subsidizing going on.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)