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Holy Paladin... Advice...

D4rv3nD4rv3n Member Posts: 164

Hey Everyone!

Well first of all I was just wondering if it's mart leveling a holy paladin... I came back to WoW, and started a paladin, I've been playing for about a week and I've gotten to lvl 22... I'm a dranei paladin, I've done some pvping at 19 for a while, got a few blue items and so on...

 

Let's get to the point, basicaly i wanna do some lvling and pvp in between lvls as in lvl some pvp at 29, 39, 49 and so on... back and forth... i also wanna be a holy paladin, so is it good? and how should i do my talent tree... so far it looks like this...

 

www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/paladin/talents.html?5050300000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

 

it's kind of a pointless place to ask this, but i find wow official forums confusing, and i cant find much about holy paladins out there... so if anyone could sum it up it would be nice...

btw i cant post my armory char because im playin on a new server and they dont have a dattabase for it yet...

 

Thanks, Darven!

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Comments

  • ShadoedShadoed Member UncommonPosts: 1,459

    For some clear advice, try this link for a full list of possible builds;

    WoWWiki Paladin Builds

    Good luck and have fun.

    It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.

  • Alan0nAlan0n Member Posts: 576

    Holy paladins are now the weakest healers ingame - both PVP and PVE.   This will become even worse in the coming weeks and moths when 25 man sunwell loot will show even more diffrence in favor of other classes. 

    In terms of 5 man Blizzard just kiced the holy paladins in the teeth by building an entire new 5 man instance with AOE dmg.  And the last boss in there was specially made to make it almost impossible for Holy paladins to manage it without already beeing alot better geared.

    YEs Kaelthas in Magister Terrace is build to bring out ALL the weakest part of the Paladin healing class.  No abilites of the holy paladin come of any use.

    Not in terms of aura (arcane tick dmg)

    Not in terms of healing (paladin needs to move and thus no heals on group)

    Not in terms of Seals

    Not in terms of CC - can't stun bird for exmaple

    Now... as for going holy... Skip it.  Paladins have been spit on by Blizzard for the past 3 years.  And it seems to be continueing with total ignorance of current situation with holy paladins. 

    I quit the game on eve of new patch.  Ive had enough of this treatment after playing holy paladin for the past 3 years and 270 days.  Im not respecing and Im not rerolling.  New game already has brought my attention and there will be no going back to a game where devs show good players and loyal no respect and take them for granted.

    No thx - Blizzard.

  • ShadoedShadoed Member UncommonPosts: 1,459


    Originally posted by Alan0n
    Now... as for going holy... Skip it.  Paladins have been spit on by Blizzard for the past 3 years.  And it seems to be continueing with total ignorance of current situation with holy paladins. 

    OH P-LEASE! Are you kidding me.

    Pallys are still one of the most powerful classes in the game and still one of the best all round characters and that is the key, they employ multiple skills and master none! They can never and should never out heal a priest, they should never be able to out tank/dps a warrior, they should never be able to avoid/dodge damage like a rogue......you getting the picture.

    If you want to see an unloved class, try being a Rogue some time. We all think that our favourite classes are out of balance for one reason or another, but you just have to move on and carve your niche as if things stayed static all the time we would all get very bored, very quickly.

    It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.

  • Alan0nAlan0n Member Posts: 576

     

    Originally posted by jason_webb


     

    Originally posted by Alan0n

    Now... as for going holy... Skip it.  Paladins have been spit on by Blizzard for the past 3 years.  And it seems to be continueing with total ignorance of current situation with holy paladins. 


     

    OH P-LEASE! Are you kidding me.

    Pallys are still one of the most powerful classes in the game and still one of the best all round characters and that is the key, they employ multiple skills and master none! They can never and should never out heal a priest, they should never be able to out tank/dps a warrior, they should never be able to avoid/dodge damage like a rogue......you getting the picture.

    If you want to see an unloved class, try being a Rogue some time. We all think that our favourite classes are out of balance for one reason or another, but you just have to move on and carve your niche as if things stayed static all the time we would all get very bored, very quickly.



    Paladins are one of 3 healing classes - NONE of thesehealing classes are one way class.  They are ALL hybrids.  You obviosly are lvl 60 something that has no idea what endgame gameplay is about.  Your idea would be ok IF not for the fact that you will need SPECIALISED gear in endgame to continue.  Thus - ANY spec should NOT  be worse of than other.  DPS warrior is spending same amouint into buildling up his dmg as Rouge.  Paladin tank is building up his tanking gear.  PVP holy paladin is spending his Arena points into SINGLE tree and he will NOT be able to change that.  This is about viability.  And when a viablity of any spec in a) PVP 2v2 - 3v3 - 5v5  b) PVE solo - 5 man - 10 man 25 man is not the same for some SPECS (that NEED diffrent sets) then the game is unbalanced.  What you are saying is that if you want to tank and do dps then you roll a warrior.  OK great.  So 50% of melees that wanna do that roll a warrior.  HOw stupid are you in a 9 class MMO game if you think that is the way it works.  In endgame content ofc.  Not talking about nubs that play 1 hour per day.  unless you do it in 2v2 as the EASY specs.

     

    { Mod Edit }

    No m8 - rogues still do dmg.  WHat you dont understand and have ZERO idea about is that the 3 way specs are changed around EVERY 2 -3 months from beeing good in one thing to beeing crap.  That is NOT what MMO is about.  U build it on balance and you dont FORCE players to do this and that.   If players like what role they have then you dont destroy that to force them to change. 

    { Mod Edit }

  • ShadoedShadoed Member UncommonPosts: 1,459

     



    Originally posted by Alan0n

    Paladins are one of 3 healing classes - NONE of thesehealing classes are one way class.  They are ALL hybrids.  You obviosly are lvl 60 something that has no idea what endgame gameplay is about.  Your idea would be ok IF not for the fact that you will need SPECIALISED gear in endgame to continue.  Thus - ANY spec should NOT  be worse of than other.  DPS warrior is spending same amouint into buildling up his dmg as Rouge.  Paladin tank is building up his tanking gear.  PVP holy paladin is spending his Arena points into SINGLE tree and he will NOT be able to change that.  This is about viability.  And when a viablity of any spec in a) PVP 2v2 - 3v3 - 5v5  b) PVE solo - 5 man - 10 man 25 man is not the same for some SPECS (that NEED diffrent sets) then the game is unbalanced.  What you are saying is that if you want to tank and do dps then you roll a warrior.  OK great.  So 50% of melees that wanna do that roll a warrior.  HOw stupid are you in a 9 class MMO game if you think that is the way it works.  In endgame content ofc.  Not talking about nubs that play 1 hour per day.  unless you do it in 2v2 as the EASY specs.

    { Mod Edit }


    No m8 - rogues still do dmg.  WHat you dont understand and have ZERO idea about is that the 3 way specs are changed around EVERY 2 -3 months from beeing good in one thing to beeing crap.  That is NOT what MMO is about.  U build it on balance and you dont FORCE players to do this and that.   If players like what role they have then you dont destroy that to force them to change. 

    { Mod Edit }



     

    Oops, did i hit a nerve by any chance?

    Unlike you i am not claiming to know everything about any class, even the ones i play, but at the same time i am also not the one throwing his dummy out of the pram about a few tweaks here and there.

    I haven't asked for anything for my rogue if you read my post, i just pointed out that all players feel that their main classes are hard done by when patches appear, easy to see when you read the forums.

    Like the majority of the sensible community we read up on the changes and re-spec/re-gear to accomodate the change and even learn new tactics if required. Your last post just shows you to be a typical blinkered power player who throws a hissy fit every time he doesn't get what 'he' wants when changes are made and loses any sense of self respect when responding to posts that don't share his own views.

    It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.

  • D4rv3nD4rv3n Member Posts: 164

    Thanks for all the help guys, I think i'm gonna reskill to ret now anyway...

  • TheHavokTheHavok Member UncommonPosts: 2,423

    Yes, respec to retribution.  It GREATLY decreases leveling time.  Even prot spec is better then holy.  Make sure you take advantage of quest because they give out more xp and better rewards then plain old aoe grinding (you can aoe grind as a prot pally prettty well after level 50).  If you want to be holy for endgame healing, which is a good idea because pally healers are always high in demand, then i would stay ret till around level 68.  At that point, respec holy and just run instances to get geared up for healing. 

    I had a 70 human pally and it was very fun specially leveling ret.  I actually dominated in world pvp up to around level 50 when things started to slow down.  Thats okay, just make sure you have a slow, hard hitting 2hander and you should be good.  The ice barb spear that is attainable at level 51 from the AV quest is a GREAT weapon that lasted me till level 60. 

    Also, you may want to hold on to protection and healing gear you stumble upon while leveling.  I could pretty much heal, dps, or tank any instance up to around level 55.  Good luck and have fun.

  • ArgeanArgean Member Posts: 126

    Ret is nice for leveling as you can do some damage. But it is not impossible level a holy pally just takes longer. I leveled my holy pally to 70. Took some time to kill most mobs but I could out heal most of the damage and live. The important thing to keep in mind is gear. For questing I used ret type gear so I could do damage. Then when I would run an instance I had my healing set. So the advice I will give is spec as how you like/want to play your toon.

    image

    Eve-Online

  • SlampigSlampig Member UncommonPosts: 2,342

    I have a level 70 holy paladin as well and love it. I didn't do any of the ret/prot stuff, just went straight holy and had a blast, still do.

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • Alan0nAlan0n Member Posts: 576

     

    Originally posted by jason_webb


     
     
    Oops, did i hit a nerve by any chance?
    Unlike you i am not claiming to know everything about any class, even the ones i play, but at the same time i am also not the one throwing his dummy out of the pram about a few tweaks here and there.
    I haven't asked for anything for my rogue if you read my post, i just pointed out that all players feel that their main classes are hard done by when patches appear, easy to see when you read the forums.
    Like the majority of the sensible community we read up on the changes and re-spec/re-gear to accomodate the change and even learn new tactics if required. Your last post just shows you to be a typical blinkered power player who throws a hissy fit every time he doesn't get what 'he' wants when changes are made and loses any sense of self respect when responding to posts that don't share his own views.



    U didn't hit a nerve no - Blizzard did so last time around.  I have tried to bring up the obvious issues that Holy paladins have had for the whole of TBC.  The fact that we scaled very nice at the start of the expansion and had easy time getting gear.  All the encounters were made for multiple tanks taking dmg so ofc paladins (since the best single tank healers at the time) were the best.  But we knew those things would change and we tried to raise that fact with BLizzard.  They did not listen and for 4 consecutive patches they nerfed holy palas to obvlivion to a point that they are now unable to do basic 5 man healing in same itemlvl gear as the 3 other healing classes.  

     

    I don't claim I know everything about the game.  But I do know what is going on with holy paladins.  It's a class that has been overnerfed by miles now - much more so than retribution paladins ever were.  The fact is that there will be only  3 usuable healing classes in next expansion.  Noone that wan'ts to be taking seriously about his gameplay will be playing Holy paladins.  No well skilled player will spend his effort even thinking if he should play holy paladin.  They will not be able to maintain the healing needed to even progress through 5 man instances like the new 5 mans just proved.   No one will take them - meaning they are forced to respec.

    It's alright to change things.   But its NOT ok to force the issue. Forcing players to change spec is NOT what MMO games are about.  Retri paladins should NOT have had to spec holy to enjoy TBC and holy paladins should NOT have to spec proc or ret to enjoy WOTLK.   This is why I quit on the eve of new patch.  Cause that patch proved that forcing players is the way of BLIzzard when it comes to hybrids.  And no hybrid has suffered more than the paladin when it comes to this.   Im a person in full time job with a family to take care of so I don't need such bull.  I have a bit more pride than that.  If the way I play is no longer viable in a full talent tree then its just time to hang up the healing plate and look for another game that gives me simulare role - role that I like to play.  I've found that role in new MMO game so Im very happy. 

    There is nothing more important in any MMO than balance.  BUt you dont force that issue upon ppl.  You dont make whole spec trees worth nothing in matter of few patches.  Specially when far more overpowered classes - even 4!!! way hybrids like druids are RULING the PVP world.  And I dont see anyone forcing them to reroll ?   Do you ?

  • ShadoedShadoed Member UncommonPosts: 1,459


    Originally posted by Alan0n
    No well skilled player will spend his effort even thinking if he should play holy paladin.  They will not be able to maintain the healing needed to even progress through 5 man instances like the new 5 mans just proved.   No one will take them - meaning they are forced to respec.

    You do forget that some people do actually like a challenge! Just because you say it can't be done does not mean that some will not try and in some cases succeed. There are currently plenty of Pally's healing in MT on 5-man, although i will agree that they are not preferred for the raid.

    As far as your call of 'balance' is concerned, that has been my point all along during this post and one that you seem to have missed completely. You say they have 'nerfed' holy pally's for the last few patches, but at the same time we have Priests calling foul in the first place when pallys were given too much power to heal in their opinion, so who is right??

    Balance in MMO's is not a finite science and things will always change, some for the good and some for the bad and depending on the class you play some changes will be worse than others for you but maybe not someone else. If you don't like change in MMO's then i would suggest that you give up playing them as it will always be the case.

    As far as re-speccing is concerned, every class in the game has had to do it at some point and you know that if you have been there since day one, whether it has been because of forced changes from Blizzard or just moving with the flow or trends of gameplay.

    At the end of the day if you don't like the changes that have been made in a game, then as you have done just leave and don't play it and by all means give advice based on your own experiences, but don't tell people that they can't do something because you can rest assured that someone will come along and prove you wrong.

    It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.

  • Pappy13Pappy13 Member Posts: 2,138
    Originally posted by D4rv3n


    Hey Everyone!
    Well first of all I was just wondering if it's mart leveling a holy paladin... I came back to WoW, and started a paladin, I've been playing for about a week and I've gotten to lvl 22... I'm a dranei paladin, I've done some pvping at 19 for a while, got a few blue items and so on...
     
    Let's get to the point, basicaly i wanna do some lvling and pvp in between lvls as in lvl some pvp at 29, 39, 49 and so on... back and forth... i also wanna be a holy paladin, so is it good? and how should i do my talent tree... so far it looks like this...
     
    www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/paladin/talents.html?5050300000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
     
    it's kind of a pointless place to ask this, but i find wow official forums confusing, and i cant find much about holy paladins out there... so if anyone could sum it up it would be nice...
    btw i cant post my armory char because im playin on a new server and they dont have a dattabase for it yet...
     
    Thanks, Darven!

    It's already been said here, but I'd like to add my comments.  Yeah, it's kinda silly to go Holy Paladin to level in my opinion, but not because Holy is a bad spec, just because it's not really necessary.  As you are leveling you are not going to be doing a bunch of grouping.  You'll do a little here and there, but for the most part you will be soloing it and yeah Ret Paladin is just easier to solo than Holy is.  Also, even when you do group up, you don't have to be Holy specced to heal in an instance.  Some low level Ret Pally's feel like all they can do in an instance is DPS, but honestly, they really don't do a heck of a lot of DPS and standing back and healing if there's no true healer would better serve the group.  So go Ret, but don't let that make you feel like you can't heal in a group, at least at the low levels.  Once you hit level 50 or so, then if you want to heal in a group setting you should respec to Holy.

    image

  • Pappy13Pappy13 Member Posts: 2,138
    Originally posted by Alan0n


    Holy paladins are now the weakest healers ingame - both PVP and PVE.   This will become even worse in the coming weeks and moths when 25 man sunwell loot will show even more diffrence in favor of other classes. 



    I have to disagree.  We have 2 Pallys that heal our Kara group and they both do very nicely.  The thing that Pally's have over the other healers is the fact they can wear Plate and have a bubble.  Rarely do the Pally's die, I should know because I'm one of them.  We have a Priest and Druid that can do a nice bit of healing themselves, but if they take aggro, they are dead, plain and simple, whereas my Pally can usually stand up to a couple hits and keep on healing and if things get really out of control I bubble and heal.  I can even save the Priest or Druid or Mage from sure death with a well timed bubble.  On top of that, I've kept the tank up a couple times with the wipe saving lay on hands.  Add in their auras and buffs and they outclass any healer in the game.  They may not be able to heal as effectively as some other specs, but when you add it all up,  more survivabilty, instant cast save the tank, healer or Mage skills and the most varied and useful set of buffs in the game, the Pallys are the best all around healers to have in a group.

    image

  • Alan0nAlan0n Member Posts: 576

     

    Originally posted by Pappy13

    Originally posted by Alan0n


    Holy paladins are now the weakest healers ingame - both PVP and PVE.   This will become even worse in the coming weeks and moths when 25 man sunwell loot will show even more diffrence in favor of other classes. 



    I have to disagree.  We have 2 Pallys that heal our Kara group and they both do very nicely.  The thing that Pally's have over the other healers is the fact they can wear Plate and have a bubble.  Rarely do the Pally's die, I should know because I'm one of them.  We have a Priest and Druid that can do a nice bit of healing themselves, but if they take aggro, they are dead, plain and simple, whereas my Pally can usually stand up to a couple hits and keep on healing and if things get really out of control I bubble and heal.  I can even save the Priest or Druid or Mage from sure death with a well timed bubble.  On top of that, I've kept the tank up a couple times with the wipe saving lay on hands.  Add in their auras and buffs and they outclass any healer in the game.  They may not be able to heal as effectively as some other specs, but when you add it all up,  more survivabilty, instant cast save the tank, healer or Mage skills and the most varied and useful set of buffs in the game, the Pallys are the best all around healers to have in a group.



    SOrry m8 - I was Kara about 6 months ago.  We were able to two man heal it a month l8ter. 

     

    Go and heal magiester terrace.  Last boss

    Buffs are NO longer counted to players ABILITES.  No more than Fortitude is for priest or GOTW for a druid.  Paladin can ONLY have one buff up so its the same. 

    We are talking 5 MAN content.  If a spec is not viable in 5 man content then they can just quit the game since they will NEVER progress any further long term.

    GO into Magister terrace in your Kara gear.  THen maybe u have some idea what Im talking about.l

    I'm wearing full T6 and been farming Illidan for past 3 months.  And even I had problems keeping players up when taking 300 arcane dmg per 1 sec for 30 sec.   You try that in your kara gear. 

    Again - Holy paladins are thing of the past.  THey will become more and more crap the further we get into sunwell. 

    Survivability... How nice is that for a class that is supposed to actually protect others to be the last man standing - beeing unable to do JACK sh.. about it.   

    You are in Kara content m8.  As said earlier we palas were fine in early TBC.  But things change.  Dmg on tanks change.  The basics of the Boss encounters change from beeing tank dmg fights into raid dmg fights.  You are 6 months behind so ofc your still viable... 

    Now again -go magister terrace since u should be able to finish it now.  And tell me when  you have killed Kaelthas in heroic mode.  Cause for a healing paladin thats actually harder than doing him 25 man.

    GL

  • Pappy13Pappy13 Member Posts: 2,138

     

    Originally posted by Alan0n


     
    Originally posted by Pappy13

    Originally posted by Alan0n


    Holy paladins are now the weakest healers ingame - both PVP and PVE.   This will become even worse in the coming weeks and moths when 25 man sunwell loot will show even more diffrence in favor of other classes. 



    I have to disagree.  We have 2 Pallys that heal our Kara group and they both do very nicely.  The thing that Pally's have over the other healers is the fact they can wear Plate and have a bubble.  Rarely do the Pally's die, I should know because I'm one of them.  We have a Priest and Druid that can do a nice bit of healing themselves, but if they take aggro, they are dead, plain and simple, whereas my Pally can usually stand up to a couple hits and keep on healing and if things get really out of control I bubble and heal.  I can even save the Priest or Druid or Mage from sure death with a well timed bubble.  On top of that, I've kept the tank up a couple times with the wipe saving lay on hands.  Add in their auras and buffs and they outclass any healer in the game.  They may not be able to heal as effectively as some other specs, but when you add it all up,  more survivabilty, instant cast save the tank, healer or Mage skills and the most varied and useful set of buffs in the game, the Pallys are the best all around healers to have in a group.



    SOrry m8 - I was Kara about 6 months ago.  We were able to two man heal it a month l8ter. 

     

    Go and heal magiester terrace.  Last boss

    Buffs are NO longer counted to players ABILITES.  No more than Fortitude is for priest or GOTW for a druid.  Paladin can ONLY have one buff up so its the same. 

    We are talking 5 MAN content.  If a spec is not viable in 5 man content then they can just quit the game since they will NEVER progress any further long term.

    GO into Magister terrace in your Kara gear.  THen maybe u have some idea what Im talking about.l

    I'm wearing full T6 and been farming Illidan for past 3 months.  And even I had problems keeping players up when taking 300 arcane dmg per 1 sec for 30 sec.   You try that in your kara gear. 

    Again - Holy paladins are thing of the past.  THey will become more and more crap the further we get into sunwell. 

    Survivability... How nice is that for a class that is supposed to actually protect others to be the last man standing - beeing unable to do JACK sh.. about it.   

    You are in Kara content m8.  As said earlier we palas were fine in early TBC.  But things change.  Dmg on tanks change.  The basics of the Boss encounters change from beeing tank dmg fights into raid dmg fights.  You are 6 months behind so ofc your still viable... 

    Now again -go magister terrace since u should be able to finish it now.  And tell me when  you have killed Kaelthas in heroic mode.  Cause for a healing paladin thats actually harder than doing him 25 man.

    GL

     

     

    So I suppose for Priests or Tree's MgT is a piece of cake?  Is that what you are suggesting?  Because if it's not, then your argument has no validity.  MgT is tough regardless of who the healer is, be that a Pally, Priest or Tree.

    And the nice thing about Pally's is that while they only get 1 buff at a time, they have several to choose from depending on the situation.  Priests get one and only one no matter what the situation and honestly Fort is not what is needed in some cases.  Plus, in raids where there's more than likely one of a class, Pally's can spread out their buffs so that one person can have more than 1 pally buff.  Can you do that with priests?  There's only one Fort to go around no matter how many Priests you have.

    image

  • Alan0nAlan0n Member Posts: 576

     

    Originally posted by Pappy13


     
     
     
    So I suppose for Priests or Tree's MgT is a piece of cake?  Is that what you are suggesting?  Because if it's not, then your argument has no validity.  MgT is tough regardless of who the healer is, be that a Pally, Priest or Tree.
    And the nice thing about Pally's is that while they only get 1 buff at a time, they have several to choose from depending on the situation.  Priests get one and only one no matter what the situation and honestly Fort is not what is needed in some cases.  Plus, in raids where there's more than likely one of a class, Pally's can spread out their buffs so that one person can have more than 1 pally buff.  Can you do that with priests?  There's only one Fort to go around no matter how many Priests you have.

    Yes - MGT for holy priest is a pieace of cake.  Go look around on official forums and you will see what holy paladins are saying.  U know nothing about it aparently.  Or you think that a priest with shield - with hot and with groupheal AND single heal can not take care of 300 dmg pers sec?   Seriously ? where have u been for the past year ?   Not to mention the free 100mp they got in 2.4

     

    No m8 - Holy paladins DONT have several diffrent buffs.  I do cause I have been buffbot for the past 3 years for my guild.  I spend 5 talent points into RET even to give other class more viabilty.  And I spend 11 !!!! points into PROT to make OTHERS have kings.  I myself use Wisdom.  So you get the point.  WHat priest is using 16 points into buffing others?  Or druid?  

    No m8 - U dont know anything about endgame content.   And you really don't know anything about the game if you think that a kara geared priest is struggling to heal Magister.  While a Holy paladin that DOESN'T even need to be there based on his gear has alot more problems.

    I dare you - go there and have a look yourself.  If u REALLY think that you can do KAEL in Kara gear as holy then again THINK of this.

    - BOss with AOE dmg - 300 ARCANE dmg per tick in p2

    = Single heal 1.5 sec for paladin per person does NOT keep the group up

    = HOly light need 10 sec to heal all 5 players for the aoe.  that is NOT counting the bubbles or the bird

    = Auras are USELESS cause its aracane dmg

    = seals are USELESS since NO mob is actually taking dmg in p2

    and finally - all ur beloved buffs....

    YOu think im REBUFFING players in p2?   Or maybe I HAVE To spend 11 talent points JUST to be able to use kings.

    ANd your a player that has played this class 270 days in the past 3 years?  NO m8 - I know what Im talking about.  Thats why I got the heck away from this game after trying for the past 4 months to point out the OBVIOUS issues that were BOUND to happen to our spec.  DId Blizzard listen ?   No.  Instead they kept buffing 3 healing classes and nerfed holy palas for 4 straight patches.  And you think that whole expansion in WOTLK is gonna be tuned for holy paladins when other healers are way superior?

    THere ARE just gonna be 3 healing classes in WOTLK - unless u count the new HERO class they annouched today .

    Bard class !!! here you go!!!

     http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/wrath/features/bard/bardclass.xml

    And yes - Holy paladins are more fools now than april fools.... They are years fools of thinking BLizzard cares...

    Get the hell out while you can.  Cause ur STUPID if you think your holy talent tree is worth the same as other healers tree. 

  • daylight01daylight01 Member Posts: 2,250

    Well back on topic...

    As a holy pala you will level slower solo but will get groups easier,thats for sure and at end game you maybe luckier with a holy spec pala than another spec,although tanking pala's for kara etc seem to be the trend..

    Off topic(i.e respond to the last 5+posts)

    Holy pala's have there spots in raids but they DONT have multiple buffs they have 1,there healing is more spread as back up healing or for fast healing on a single target(thinking tanking mage on HKM).

    Some people I know loved playing a holt spec pala but quite a few more got bored as they didnt have the same amount of healing spells as a priest and almost felt they knew from start to finish how there night would go,just a thought.

    image

    If someone had came up to me in 1980 when I was on my Atari 2600 and said we will be playing games with thousands of people at the same time.I guess my response would have been,"but I only have 2 joysticks"

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/235780/page/8

  • Alan0nAlan0n Member Posts: 576

     

    Originally posted by daylight01


    Well back on topic...
    As a holy pala you will level slower solo but will get groups easier,thats for sure and at end game you maybe luckier with a holy spec pala than another spec,although tanking pala's for kara etc seem to be the trend..
    Off topic(i.e respond to the last 5+posts)
    Holy pala's have there spots in raids but they DONT have multiple buffs they have 1,there healing is more spread as back up healing or for fast healing on a single target(thinking tanking mage on HKM).
    Some people I know loved playing a holt spec pala but quite a few more got bored as they didnt have the same amount of healing spells as a priest and almost felt they knew from start to finish how there night would go,just a thought.

    Paladins can never be backup healers - but if they were  - what a waste of raidspot.  ANd then you also might understand what is happening to their viabilty as 5 man healers.  Cause they simply wont cope - just like they can't cope in MgT atm.

     

    Maybe you should know that hot from priest or druid actually does more per TICK (that is + 3 more)  than one single 1.5 sec heal from paladin now in indgame content. 

    Yes - that is the joke we have turned out to be.  Does Blizzard care ?  No they are busy answering the Warlocks with all their problems atm....

  • D4rv3nD4rv3n Member Posts: 164

    wow, this turned out to be a pretty big thread lol...

    anyway i enjoyed going thru it all and thanks for everything :)

    D4rv3n!

     

    Respect!

  • Pappy13Pappy13 Member Posts: 2,138
    Originally posted by Alan0n


     
    Originally posted by Pappy13


     
     
     
    So I suppose for Priests or Tree's MgT is a piece of cake?  Is that what you are suggesting?  Because if it's not, then your argument has no validity.  MgT is tough regardless of who the healer is, be that a Pally, Priest or Tree.
    And the nice thing about Pally's is that while they only get 1 buff at a time, they have several to choose from depending on the situation.  Priests get one and only one no matter what the situation and honestly Fort is not what is needed in some cases.  Plus, in raids where there's more than likely one of a class, Pally's can spread out their buffs so that one person can have more than 1 pally buff.  Can you do that with priests?  There's only one Fort to go around no matter how many Priests you have.

    Yes - MGT for holy priest is a pieace of cake.  Go look around on official forums and you will see what holy paladins are saying.  U know nothing about it aparently.  Or you think that a priest with shield - with hot and with groupheal AND single heal can not take care of 300 dmg pers sec?   Seriously ? where have u been for the past year ?   Not to mention the free 100mp they got in 2.4

     

    No m8 - Holy paladins DONT have several diffrent buffs.  I do cause I have been buffbot for the past 3 years for my guild.  I spend 5 talent points into RET even to give other class more viabilty.  And I spend 11 !!!! points into PROT to make OTHERS have kings.  I myself use Wisdom.  So you get the point.  WHat priest is using 16 points into buffing others?  Or druid?  

    No m8 - U dont know anything about endgame content.   And you really don't know anything about the game if you think that a kara geared priest is struggling to heal Magister.  While a Holy paladin that DOESN'T even need to be there based on his gear has alot more problems.

    I dare you - go there and have a look yourself.  If u REALLY think that you can do KAEL in Kara gear as holy then again THINK of this.

    - BOss with AOE dmg - 300 ARCANE dmg per tick in p2

    = Single heal 1.5 sec for paladin per person does NOT keep the group up

    = HOly light need 10 sec to heal all 5 players for the aoe.  that is NOT counting the bubbles or the bird

    = Auras are USELESS cause its aracane dmg

    = seals are USELESS since NO mob is actually taking dmg in p2

    and finally - all ur beloved buffs....

    YOu think im REBUFFING players in p2?   Or maybe I HAVE To spend 11 talent points JUST to be able to use kings.

    ANd your a player that has played this class 270 days in the past 3 years?  NO m8 - I know what Im talking about.  Thats why I got the heck away from this game after trying for the past 4 months to point out the OBVIOUS issues that were BOUND to happen to our spec.  DId Blizzard listen ?   No.  Instead they kept buffing 3 healing classes and nerfed holy palas for 4 straight patches.  And you think that whole expansion in WOTLK is gonna be tuned for holy paladins when other healers are way superior?

    THere ARE just gonna be 3 healing classes in WOTLK - unless u count the new HERO class they annouched today .

    Bard class !!! here you go!!!

     http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/wrath/features/bard/bardclass.xml

    And yes - Holy paladins are more fools now than april fools.... They are years fools of thinking BLizzard cares...

    Get the hell out while you can.  Cause ur STUPID if you think your holy talent tree is worth the same as other healers tree. 



    I've ALREADY done MgT with my Pally as the only healer on normal mode, had no problems whatsoever and I don't even have a full set of Kara gear.  I have not done it on heroic, I've heard it's pretty tough, but you are blowing things WAY out of proportion.  It's pretty obvious to anyone reading your posts that you are making a huge deal over this.  You obviously feel very passionately about your Paladin, I guess that's the only class you play.  I have 9 toons, only 1 Pally, guess I just don't know WTF I'm talking about.

    image

  • daylight01daylight01 Member Posts: 2,250
    Originally posted by Alan0n


     
    Originally posted by daylight01


    Well back on topic...
    As a holy pala you will level slower solo but will get groups easier,thats for sure and at end game you maybe luckier with a holy spec pala than another spec,although tanking pala's for kara etc seem to be the trend..
    Off topic(i.e respond to the last 5+posts)
    Holy pala's have there spots in raids but they DONT have multiple buffs they have 1,there healing is more spread as back up healing or for fast healing on a single target(thinking tanking mage on HKM).
    Some people I know loved playing a holt spec pala but quite a few more got bored as they didnt have the same amount of healing spells as a priest and almost felt they knew from start to finish how there night would go,just a thought.

    Paladins can never be backup healers - but if they were  - what a waste of raidspot.  ANd then you also might understand what is happening to their viabilty as 5 man healers.  Cause they simply wont cope - just like they can't cope in MgT atm.

     

    Maybe you should know that hot from priest or druid actually does more per TICK (that is + 3 more)  than one single 1.5 sec heal from paladin now in indgame content. 

    Yes - that is the joke we have turned out to be.  Does Blizzard care ?  No they are busy answering the Warlocks with all their problems atm....

    LOL sorry m8 roll another class,I cant answer someone that isnt willing to listen and has his mind made up,but you sir havent a clue what you are talking about so like I said play another class!

    image

    If someone had came up to me in 1980 when I was on my Atari 2600 and said we will be playing games with thousands of people at the same time.I guess my response would have been,"but I only have 2 joysticks"

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/235780/page/8

  • Alan0nAlan0n Member Posts: 576

    Originally posted by Pappy13

    Originally posted by Alan0n


     
    Originally posted by Pappy13


     
     
     
    So I suppose for Priests or Tree's MgT is a piece of cake?  Is that what you are suggesting?  Because if it's not, then your argument has no validity.  MgT is tough regardless of who the healer is, be that a Pally, Priest or Tree.
    And the nice thing about Pally's is that while they only get 1 buff at a time, they have several to choose from depending on the situation.  Priests get one and only one no matter what the situation and honestly Fort is not what is needed in some cases.  Plus, in raids where there's more than likely one of a class, Pally's can spread out their buffs so that one person can have more than 1 pally buff.  Can you do that with priests?  There's only one Fort to go around no matter how many Priests you have.

    Yes - MGT for holy priest is a pieace of cake.  Go look around on official forums and you will see what holy paladins are saying.  U know nothing about it aparently.  Or you think that a priest with shield - with hot and with groupheal AND single heal can not take care of 300 dmg pers sec?   Seriously ? where have u been for the past year ?   Not to mention the free 100mp they got in 2.4

     

    No m8 - Holy paladins DONT have several diffrent buffs.  I do cause I have been buffbot for the past 3 years for my guild.  I spend 5 talent points into RET even to give other class more viabilty.  And I spend 11 !!!! points into PROT to make OTHERS have kings.  I myself use Wisdom.  So you get the point.  WHat priest is using 16 points into buffing others?  Or druid?  

    No m8 - U dont know anything about endgame content.   And you really don't know anything about the game if you think that a kara geared priest is struggling to heal Magister.  While a Holy paladin that DOESN'T even need to be there based on his gear has alot more problems.

    I dare you - go there and have a look yourself.  If u REALLY think that you can do KAEL in Kara gear as holy then again THINK of this.

    - BOss with AOE dmg - 300 ARCANE dmg per tick in p2

    = Single heal 1.5 sec for paladin per person does NOT keep the group up

    = HOly light need 10 sec to heal all 5 players for the aoe.  that is NOT counting the bubbles or the bird

    = Auras are USELESS cause its aracane dmg

    = seals are USELESS since NO mob is actually taking dmg in p2

    and finally - all ur beloved buffs....

    YOu think im REBUFFING players in p2?   Or maybe I HAVE To spend 11 talent points JUST to be able to use kings.

    ANd your a player that has played this class 270 days in the past 3 years?  NO m8 - I know what Im talking about.  Thats why I got the heck away from this game after trying for the past 4 months to point out the OBVIOUS issues that were BOUND to happen to our spec.  DId Blizzard listen ?   No.  Instead they kept buffing 3 healing classes and nerfed holy palas for 4 straight patches.  And you think that whole expansion in WOTLK is gonna be tuned for holy paladins when other healers are way superior?

    THere ARE just gonna be 3 healing classes in WOTLK - unless u count the new HERO class they annouched today .

    Bard class !!! here you go!!!

     http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/wrath/features/bard/bardclass.xml

    And yes - Holy paladins are more fools now than april fools.... They are years fools of thinking BLizzard cares...

    Get the hell out while you can.  Cause ur STUPID if you think your holy talent tree is worth the same as other healers tree. 



    I've ALREADY done MgT with my Pally as the only healer on normal mode, had no problems whatsoever and I don't even have a full set of Kara gear.  I have not done it on heroic, I've heard it's pretty tough, but you are blowing things WAY out of proportion.  It's pretty obvious to anyone reading your posts that you are making a huge deal over this.  You obviously feel very passionately about your Paladin, I guess that's the only class you play.  I have 9 toons, only 1 Pally, guess I just don't know WTF I'm talking about.

    Its not my only toon - but its my main - and when my alt in green gear is more viable than a full geared T6 holy paladin then I have a reason to point that out.  No - Im not changing class - and IM not changing spec.  If Im not viable as a full tier in 5 man or 10 man or 25 man long term (not talking PVP arena cause we all know thats not even an option atm)  then its time to change game. 

    Devs should NOT be able to force players to change specs to be viable.  That just not only go for paladins but every single hybrid class ingame.  BLizzard has not been able to do that for the past year and that shows that a 3 year old game is worth LESS than nothing when it comes to balanced gameplay.



    Im not blowing things out of porportions.  Im just a player of one class ingame - just like a priest is a player of one class.  And as endgame player - and as 5 man group player - Im just asking for the same viabilty.  That is NOT blowing things out of porportion.  Thats asking for balanced game.  And Blizzard is as far from balanced atm as it ever was.

  • Alan0nAlan0n Member Posts: 576

     

    Originally posted by daylight01

    Originally posted by Alan0n


     
    Originally posted by daylight01


    Well back on topic...
    As a holy pala you will level slower solo but will get groups easier,thats for sure and at end game you maybe luckier with a holy spec pala than another spec,although tanking pala's for kara etc seem to be the trend..
    Off topic(i.e respond to the last 5+posts)
    Holy pala's have there spots in raids but they DONT have multiple buffs they have 1,there healing is more spread as back up healing or for fast healing on a single target(thinking tanking mage on HKM).
    Some people I know loved playing a holt spec pala but quite a few more got bored as they didnt have the same amount of healing spells as a priest and almost felt they knew from start to finish how there night would go,just a thought.

    Paladins can never be backup healers - but if they were  - what a waste of raidspot.  ANd then you also might understand what is happening to their viabilty as 5 man healers.  Cause they simply wont cope - just like they can't cope in MgT atm.

     

    Maybe you should know that hot from priest or druid actually does more per TICK (that is + 3 more)  than one single 1.5 sec heal from paladin now in indgame content. 

    Yes - that is the joke we have turned out to be.  Does Blizzard care ?  No they are busy answering the Warlocks with all their problems atm....

    LOL sorry m8 roll another class,I cant answer someone that isnt willing to listen and has his mind made up,but you sir havent a clue what you are talking about so like I said play another class!

    No - I roll another game m8

     

    DOn't have a clue what Im talking about ?

    Well u just wait and see where holy paladins will end up in WOTLK - Im not waiting around

    Im actually laughing at players that are gonna hang around thinking they are still viable as holy.  OFc there will be holys around. But NOT as MAIN characters playing any serious role ingame.  That has now been determined by blizzard in 2.4.    And the future is for all to see. 

    No thx.  Im paying for playing. So when a game can not give good players the same chance to progress or performe based on abiltiy then you dont hang around any longer. 

    ANd then we are talking about very Poor game.

  • Alan0nAlan0n Member Posts: 576

    Originally posted by D4rv3n


    wow, this turned out to be a pretty big thread lol...
    anyway i enjoyed going thru it all and thanks for everything :)
    D4rv3n!
     
    Respect!
    GOod luck m8

    Just promise me u stay away from the holy tree. 

    Dont do the same mistake I did for 3 years and 270 days played. 

    Just promise me that

  • ShadoedShadoed Member UncommonPosts: 1,459


    Originally posted by Alan0n
    No - I roll another game m8
     
    DOn't have a clue what Im talking about ?
    Well u just wait and see where holy paladins will end up in WOTLK - Im not waiting around
    Im actually laughing at players that are gonna hang around thinking they are still viable as holy.  OFc there will be holys around. But NOT as MAIN characters playing any serious role ingame.  That has now been determined by blizzard in 2.4.    And the future is for all to see. 
    No thx.  Im paying for playing. So when a game can not give good players the same chance to progress or performe based on abiltiy then you dont hang around any longer. 
    ANd then we are talking about very Poor game.

    OMG, people may as well talk to a brick wall as try and make a point to you!

    One person in this thread has already actually done what you say is impossible by being the only healer on an MT run, but still holy is too crap for you to play. You then basically say that you are completely right as you are the only one in this thread that knows what he is talking about and if you can't do it, no-one can (paraphrasing here of course, but that is the general gist), talk about ego!

    You then go on to condemn the whole game because in your illustrious opinion, one build for one class is screwed up beyond use (because how dare they make you re-spec to adapt). Further still, you are writing off an expansion that no-one knows the details of, so you have no idea what the changes (if any) will be!!

    IF i had any respect for your opinions at any time during this thread, that has been blown out of the window by your pure lack of any ability to see that others may actually succeed where you have obviously failed!

    Back on the main subject, at the end of the day if you want to try holy spec then go for it as beyond this guys opinion some people are doing well with the spec regardless and those that don't get on with it (including a member of my own guild) just re-spec to something that they can get along with. Flexability is a useful thing to keep in mind with MMO's, although some would have you believe otherwise.

    It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.

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