I played CoH/V for bout a year. I always said they should have stuck to their guns and went with a HERO-like system like they planned (but ditched at E3). This time I hope they think things through better and stick to their guns. Also I pray the 'city of nerfs' is not repeated. The nerfs rained down from the sky left and right. That ED nerf was pretty awful. That's stuff a professional game dev should do before ship. Please dont revamp an MMO years later that's just not cool. If your game is broken, fix it before release plz. Don;t say crap like, "We never meant for Controllers to have X number of pets".... Find that stuff in open beta please.
Actually, the nerfs were the GOOD decisions. The Tank herding nerf was the single greatest decision in MMO history. ED wasn't awful -- it was a necessary step toward inventions. Without ED, inventions would have been a nightmare to balance. Was your enjoyment of the game was based entirely on a few 6-slotted powers? If so, that's a shame.
Once Statesman left and Positron started adding things that seemed "cool," THAT is when the gameplay and overall enjoyability began to plummet.
Why don't you remove leveling and make everyone max level? What is the point to ACHIEVE anything?
Nerfs kill the game for almost every achiever.
If you don't understand the achievers, at least, try to remain open minded. A nerf is NOT acceptable. Maybe I can be rational and come to terms and accept 1 SMALL thing once in a while...but IH/ED??? Never. I would have to explain to you how they should IMPROVE invul, yet they nerf it (based on scrappers, while mainly it is for tankers/brutes to compete with stoner). See 1 set with 9 defensive powers that stack...is weaker than a set with 8 defensive powers which doesn't stack (Mud pot is offensive). Now, if you have to stack many powers, the endresult should be stronger, not weaker. But not with these devs...Granite crush it all. That's made no sense.
The worst drop they ever have in amounts of players is when they...IH and ED nerf. Say whatever you want, subs numbers support my point.
But wear these pinks glasses and keep thinking ED was good. It was awfull, it ruins the game for almost every achievers. Sure, socialisers and killers may find these fun/acceptable, but explorer won't give a damn and achievers will cry, and cry, and cry.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Played CoV (and a little CoH) on the euro servers for about four months. Would have played more but the population was (still is?) really low, it was possible to play solo but playing almost only solo is not that fun. Definitely keeping a eye on this game (as in my last hope for a good mmorpg).
play on freedom or virtue, they're packed almost all the time
I played CoH/V for bout a year. I always said they should have stuck to their guns and went with a HERO-like system like they planned (but ditched at E3). This time I hope they think things through better and stick to their guns. Also I pray the 'city of nerfs' is not repeated. The nerfs rained down from the sky left and right. That ED nerf was pretty awful. That's stuff a professional game dev should do before ship. Please dont revamp an MMO years later that's just not cool. If your game is broken, fix it before release plz. Don;t say crap like, "We never meant for Controllers to have X number of pets".... Find that stuff in open beta please.
Actually, the nerfs were the GOOD decisions. The Tank herding nerf was the single greatest decision in MMO history. ED wasn't awful -- it was a necessary step toward inventions. Without ED, inventions would have been a nightmare to balance. Was your enjoyment of the game was based entirely on a few 6-slotted powers? If so, that's a shame.
Once Statesman left and Positron started adding things that seemed "cool," THAT is when the gameplay and overall enjoyability began to plummet.
Why don't you remove leveling and make everyone max level? What is the point to ACHIEVE anything?
Nerfs kill the game for almost every achiever.
If you don't understand the achievers, at least, try to remain open minded. A nerf is NOT acceptable. Maybe I can be rational and come to terms and accept 1 SMALL thing once in a while...but IH/ED??? Never. I would have to explain to you how they should IMPROVE invul, yet they nerf it (based on scrappers, while mainly it is for tankers/brutes to compete with stoner). See 1 set with 9 defensive powers that stack...is weaker than a set with 8 defensive powers which doesn't stack (Mud pot is offensive). Now, if you have to stack many powers, the endresult should be stronger, not weaker. But not with these devs...Granite crush it all. That's made no sense.
The worst drop they ever have in amounts of players is when they...IH and ED nerf. Say whatever you want, subs numbers support my point.
But wear these pinks glasses and keep thinking ED was good. It was awfull, it ruins the game for almost every achievers. Sure, socialisers and killers may find these fun/acceptable, but explorer won't give a damn and achievers will cry, and cry, and cry.
Achievers are like locusts -- they demolish everything in their path as quickly as possible and move on....
As to the OP, I think most CoX players are going to keep an open mind about CO and if CO is good enough, they'll move over, just like any other game.
I played CoH/V for bout a year. I always said they should have stuck to their guns and went with a HERO-like system like they planned (but ditched at E3). This time I hope they think things through better and stick to their guns. Also I pray the 'city of nerfs' is not repeated. The nerfs rained down from the sky left and right. That ED nerf was pretty awful. That's stuff a professional game dev should do before ship. Please dont revamp an MMO years later that's just not cool. If your game is broken, fix it before release plz. Don;t say crap like, "We never meant for Controllers to have X number of pets".... Find that stuff in open beta please.
Actually, the nerfs were the GOOD decisions. The Tank herding nerf was the single greatest decision in MMO history. ED wasn't awful -- it was a necessary step toward inventions. Without ED, inventions would have been a nightmare to balance. Was your enjoyment of the game was based entirely on a few 6-slotted powers? If so, that's a shame.
Once Statesman left and Positron started adding things that seemed "cool," THAT is when the gameplay and overall enjoyability began to plummet.
Why don't you remove leveling and make everyone max level? What is the point to ACHIEVE anything?
Nerfs kill the game for almost every achiever.
If you don't understand the achievers, at least, try to remain open minded. A nerf is NOT acceptable. Maybe I can be rational and come to terms and accept 1 SMALL thing once in a while...but IH/ED??? Never. I would have to explain to you how they should IMPROVE invul, yet they nerf it (based on scrappers, while mainly it is for tankers/brutes to compete with stoner). See 1 set with 9 defensive powers that stack...is weaker than a set with 8 defensive powers which doesn't stack (Mud pot is offensive). Now, if you have to stack many powers, the endresult should be stronger, not weaker. But not with these devs...Granite crush it all. That's made no sense.
The worst drop they ever have in amounts of players is when they...IH and ED nerf. Say whatever you want, subs numbers support my point.
But wear these pinks glasses and keep thinking ED was good. It was awfull, it ruins the game for almost every achievers. Sure, socialisers and killers may find these fun/acceptable, but explorer won't give a damn and achievers will cry, and cry, and cry.
So let's see ... by your own admission, ONE group of players dislikes the change, TWO groups enjoy it, and another group doesn't care.
Seems to me that's an overall positive reaction.
The only thing you've convinced me of is that I forgot to mention how a lot of people still wish they would NERF Granite Armor.
I wasn't a tank, so I understood why they got nerfed. I would have preferred to have had my powers given an overhaul so I could compete though. Pro buff, anti nerf.
Arenas, upon release, killed it for me, on my main, a gravity/forcefield magician. The fact that I couldn't compete with my tank/scrapper friends in PvP without ending in a 0/0 draw or me getting slaughtered. Containment was awesome, I loved it, but I still had gimp PvP powers.
Most super heroes got nerfed to heroes. I hope Champions won't get nerfed to winners. CoX became so narrow from what I expected them to release that it choked me out of paying that subscription fee.
Champions' promises are hitting the spot, and if it delivers, it gets my money.
I played CoH from late beta through the end of the first year, then quit for a while, and have come back a few times since then. It's a fun game, and while it has had some pretty rough changes, overall it still has the best "feel" of any MMO out there. If CO was being done by the current NCSoft CoX team, I'd jump in a heartbeat. Jack "Statesman" Emmeret isn't a deal breaker for me, but it does make me cautious.... Hopefully he has learned to listen to the player base and make use of the feedback from the test servers.
Actually, listening to a vocal minority is dangerous.
The average player will not even fills the final survey. Even less come on websites, official or not.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
So let's see ... by your own admission, ONE group of players dislikes the change, TWO groups enjoy it, and another group doesn't care.
Seems to me that's an overall positive reaction. The only thing you've convinced me of is that I forgot to mention how a lot of people still wish they would NERF Granite Armor.
Achievers are the peoples who will play the game, even if they are alone. Socialisers will play the game if other are. Killers will play the game if other are.
See, CoX needs more achievers. Not less. See the comment of the persons saying they left cause it is a ghostown? How do you retain socialisers and killers? You retain them with achievers already playing your game and supporting it.
Nerfs are never acceptable. Once you give, you never take back. You can give more to "balance", but never take anything.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Achievers are like locusts -- they demolish everything in their path as quickly as possible and move on....
True. This is a good description of me and achievers. Althought a bit harsh.
However, the point is that a MMO could be designed in a way where the achiever never move on, and achieve more, more and more. You just have to find a way where the non-achievers can play and be happy and rule at what they do. Read my blog if you want to see a my solution for that.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Achievers are like locusts -- they demolish everything in their path as quickly as possible and move on....
True. This is a good description of me and achievers. Althought a bit harsh.
However, the point is that a MMO could be designed in a way where the achiever never move on, and achieve more, more and more. You just have to find a way where the non-achievers can play and be happy and rule at what they do. Read my blog if you want to see a my solution for that.
I hope you're sitting down because I'm kinda, sorta about to agree with you ( ' :
Initially I was going to disagree with you based on the premise that because content really is finite within a timeframe, there's no possible way for developers to keep up with players by adding more and more content. It's also wasteful to abandon that old content (i.e., galaxy city/atlas park/kings row) once you get past respective levels. So by offering replayability (encouraging altitis) especially with the group dynamics and the particular community of CoX, you could be able to extend the lifespan of the game. But, that's based on my personal preference of having fun playing multiple characters (which many people like to do) but it still doesn't satisfy those who must have the uber loot/badge/achievement.
So, how can I turn around and agree with you now? Well, i think we're beginning to reach a turning point in software design, particularly in games where game content can be dynamically generated and organically evolve. Look at Spore by Will Wright -- it is using "procedural generation" to dynamically create worlds and conflicts based on the decisions you make designing and leading your "entity". Sure, this is a single player game but I had recently (1 month ago?) come across an article about a programmer who was attempting to create an "morpg" (no massive in there) based on this same concept with an ROI based on a 30 person population. If it works and if this matures, we'll see the realization of truly unique shards in our mmo's and at least sufficiently new kinds of content available to the achievers (as well as others).
So, while I think mmos are best suited for those who "enjoy the journey", I do acknowledge that the achiever-types who like to win games provide a significant portion of the population (directly or indirectly as you describe).
I started playing CoX on its release date. My first characters were disappointing, but not enough to throw me out of the game. I later began testing the other Archetypes and trying different builds for my characters. I have discovered I like the Scrapper class best but still want(ed) to be able to use some ranged attacks. They later released the "issue" that had a ranged equivalent of the basic brawl or punch attack given to all characters. The "veterans" rewards also have some ranged attacks in them. I still today play the game, and yes I enjoy it.
Having said all that, I am really looking forward to the Champions-Online.
The "grind" is toughest in the higher levels in CoX and the missions are very repetitive, but the character creation alone is one of the best I've ever seen. Other than a few uninspired toons, I have almost never seen two of the same character. Also the ability to write your characters bio is something a lot of players ignore. I enjoy that as well.
I am a self professed Alt-A-Holic and have characters on every server available in the CoX game. I can solo or play in teams equally as well. I enjoy both the meat-grinder teams where we plow through everything in the mission, and the role playing social teams where we plan each engagement out and try to play in character.
I am hoping that CO lives up to all the hype, I will give it a shot, but I will also keep my CoX account open until I find out for sure the CO game will give me as much enjoyment as I have gotten out of CoX.
I was in CoH's closed beta and played a number of months here and there since then. I thought it was a fairly good game.
It isn't really an MMORPG by my standards because there is so little character building that can be done, so I am hoping that any new crimefighter type game has a MUCH deeper character developement aspect.
But, as others have said, I too try most of the games that come out so I will likely try this one too.
"The reality of the poor in America isn't the difference between The Haves and The Have Nots, it is the difference between The Haves and The Have Lots."
Originally posted by therain93 So, while I think mmos are best suited for those who "enjoy the journey", I do acknowledge that the achiever-types who like to win games provide a significant portion of the population (directly or indirectly as you describe).
The leveling concept appeal to these locust-achievers. I see many socialisers not caring or plainly hating it. But, in the end, what matter to them is that peoples are online and playing. Achievers are online and playing to level up. :P I will always favore a level cap on each zone, so you can have more levels/stuff to earn in the whole game...if everyone is limited to level 20 in a zone, this is fine, it give a surrounding where the non-achiever can be happy...and it still leave the option to go in another zone and still level up for the achievers. Ideally, a system with a level cap, would encourage an achiever to comes back in old zone. But this "ideal" thing is also very dangerous, it should be similar to what the achievers are doing outside, but doing it with a group in the lowbie zone should be more appealing than doing it solo or duo in the highbee zone, for the highbee zone rewards.
Example, you have an unlimited levels game, but in a zone everyone is level 20 or less. The level 553 achiever comes and group, while he is level 20, as everyone else, he still earn good XP to progress toward level 554. The achiever only cares for his progression, if it is better for him to solo...he would. Now, a group in the level 20 zone is definitely easier than a group in the level 500+ zone; and you don't want peoples to sit on easy setting, but at the same time, you don't want them to turn them off automatically. I think, humbly, that someone should prefer a group, the highest level group possible, to any soloing, but that is merley my opinion and I would accept it, either way. In my example, the socialiser may be level 15 or 20 and not really caring for the highbees zone, but in this zone, he knows he will master it by level 20 if it even matter to him. It would definitely be possible to have a "rift" in the XP progression, in the sense that in every zone with a level cap, you must earn the XP here...but in the last unlimited levels area, all XP earn everywhere is good. Example. You have a game with 50 levels of designed content. If you are level 33 in my example...let's say you would earn 2 levels in that level 20 zone...you would be level 33+2, not level 35, this mean that when you enter the unlimited level zone, these XP kick in, but not before...so when you reach level 50, you will just move right away to level 52, for these XP you earn lowbie that couldn't be used to bypass regular content and zone stuff for the game, but still applies for the unlimited level "endgame".
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I wasn't a tank, so I understood why they got nerfed. I would have preferred to have had my powers given an overhaul so I could compete though. Pro buff, anti nerf. Arenas, upon release, killed it for me, on my main, a gravity/forcefield magician. The fact that I couldn't compete with my tank/scrapper friends in PvP without ending in a 0/0 draw or me getting slaughtered. Containment was awesome, I loved it, but I still had gimp PvP powers. Most super heroes got nerfed to heroes. I hope Champions won't get nerfed to winners. CoX became so narrow from what I expected them to release that it choked me out of paying that subscription fee. Champions' promises are hitting the spot, and if it delivers, it gets my money.
the man behind statesman left COx, slowly but surely you're seeing enhancements introduced to the game that'll bring the 'super' back to hero.
that man is now behind champions online.
i'm keeping expectations low so i don't get disappointed overly much.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I played CoH/V for bout a year. I always said they should have stuck to their guns and went with a HERO-like system like they planned (but ditched at E3). This time I hope they think things through better and stick to their guns. Also I pray the 'city of nerfs' is not repeated. The nerfs rained down from the sky left and right. That ED nerf was pretty awful. That's stuff a professional game dev should do before ship. Please dont revamp an MMO years later that's just not cool. If your game is broken, fix it before release plz. Don;t say crap like, "We never meant for Controllers to have X number of pets".... Find that stuff in open beta please.
Actually, the nerfs were the GOOD decisions. The Tank herding nerf was the single greatest decision in MMO history. ED wasn't awful -- it was a necessary step toward inventions. Without ED, inventions would have been a nightmare to balance. Was your enjoyment of the game based entirely on a few 6-slotted powers? If so, that's a shame.
Once Statesman left and Positron started adding things that seemed "cool," THAT is when the gameplay and overall enjoyability began to plummet.
the irony of the quoted post is that ED was done and jack stated that inventions were on the shelf indefinitely (read - not happening - ever). so, ED wasn't actually done with inventions in mind, ED was in order to "fix" something that didn't fit with the vision of 1 hero = 3 minions.
i find the opposite to be true about states and posi. there have been a number of changes and additions the past couple of issues. i'm not thrilled with the idea of a second "raid" being added; but the way it was done is not in the "wow" vein of raiding for the most part. the time travel (being able to redo missed content) is very nice. more and more IO sets being added is also nice. being able to see the numbers behind the powers is great. i'm not sure what 'cool' changes were implemented that would detract from enjoyability.
FINALLY villains get epic ATs~!!
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I was in CoH's closed beta and played a number of months here and there since then. I thought it was a fairly good game. It isn't really an MMORPG by my standards because there is so little character building that can be done, so I am hoping that any new crimefighter type game has a MUCH deeper character developement aspect. But, as others have said, I too try most of the games that come out so I will likely try this one too.
compared to most any mmo on the market, i'd have to disagree and say that COx has at least as much (many cases much more) depth than other games.
COx is truly a game you DON'T have to min/max and you can still have a totally playable character. heck, i think you are even capable of building a petless MM and have that character contribute noticeably on a team.
are you talking about 'personal' contacts/background/etc that actually plays a part in the game? such as the creating your arch-nemesis thing? if you read the stories and notice the outbursts made by villains ingame, you are the hero/center of the stories (in COx). even on a team, if it's your mission, the villains are trash talking you, not a random team member. have a vendetta against council? do council missions. every one of the council bosses will be "oh noes, it's Chocolate Cake Baker! kill her/him!"
i'm still hoping skills make an appearance on COx. perhaps it's a toy jack took with him and didn't leave at COx. if CO is done like PnP Champs; then, this will be an interesting character building process. not just initial creation, but as the character matures/levels/whatever.
i guess i'm just not sure what you mean by more depth. ?
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I beta'd CoH and played in release for 2-3 months before becoming bored with the game. But I am mostly hopeful because I'm a long time Champions player and I'm hoping to find some of the same flexibility here, where feasible of course.
I'm not super hyped just because, especially post-launch, Statesman was making a lot of changes to the game to the way 'he liked' and balances and nerfs that 'he liked.' Things that players often were much against it. Sure it was his MMOG, but post release it becomes about your players, and many players really disliked many of his changes, myself included.
Then Positron got lead dev and the game has constantly improved since.
So I'm gonna wait and see how possessive about the game Jack Emmert gets, and how the game shapes up and if it's a game he wants, or a game players want.
Then Positron got lead dev and the game has constantly improved since.
I dunno, it seems to be losing a lot of its old character for me. It might be because I've been playing it for 3 years or that the general direction of the game seems to be heading the same way as all the other MMOs out there. It's prolly a combination of both to be honest. One of the big things I loved about CoH back in the day is that it wasn't an aquisitive game with pressure to farm in order to be "competitive". I hate farming, it's a tedious waste of time that shoudl be spent having fun, and I promised myself a long time ago I'd never play a game that expected me to farm again. I do enough boring "inf" grinding in real life
Anyway, I'm really looking forward to Champions Online. For all the hate that's piled on Statesman he did create one of the very few original MMOs out there and I'm interested to see what new features he brings to CO.
I've been playing CoV for about 7 months (taking a break from it for now), and it was the first MMO that I've ever paid a monthly fee for lol.
I'm really looking forward to Champions Online; From reading Game Informer's issue about 2 months ago, Cryptic is going to implement everything that they could't do in CoH/CoV. Their also revamping the customization and combat play, so i'm looking forward to CO.
I'm on a wait and see approach. The game is really starting to sound a lot like CoH2 which is not what I'm interested in doing again. I'm also a bit worried about Jack being in charge. He really has a problem with soloers in his games and that is my primary preference. Soloing in CoH is like pulling teeth, boring and painful, so I don't hold much hope for an improvement in Champions.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Comments
Actually, the nerfs were the GOOD decisions. The Tank herding nerf was the single greatest decision in MMO history. ED wasn't awful -- it was a necessary step toward inventions. Without ED, inventions would have been a nightmare to balance. Was your enjoyment of the game was based entirely on a few 6-slotted powers? If so, that's a shame.Once Statesman left and Positron started adding things that seemed "cool," THAT is when the gameplay and overall enjoyability began to plummet.
Why don't you remove leveling and make everyone max level? What is the point to ACHIEVE anything?
Nerfs kill the game for almost every achiever.
If you don't understand the achievers, at least, try to remain open minded. A nerf is NOT acceptable. Maybe I can be rational and come to terms and accept 1 SMALL thing once in a while...but IH/ED??? Never. I would have to explain to you how they should IMPROVE invul, yet they nerf it (based on scrappers, while mainly it is for tankers/brutes to compete with stoner). See 1 set with 9 defensive powers that stack...is weaker than a set with 8 defensive powers which doesn't stack (Mud pot is offensive). Now, if you have to stack many powers, the endresult should be stronger, not weaker. But not with these devs...Granite crush it all. That's made no sense.
The worst drop they ever have in amounts of players is when they...IH and ED nerf. Say whatever you want, subs numbers support my point.
But wear these pinks glasses and keep thinking ED was good. It was awfull, it ruins the game for almost every achievers. Sure, socialisers and killers may find these fun/acceptable, but explorer won't give a damn and achievers will cry, and cry, and cry.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Gelasius
i cant wait for this one to come out. thats all
Once Statesman left and Positron started adding things that seemed "cool," THAT is when the gameplay and overall enjoyability began to plummet.
Why don't you remove leveling and make everyone max level? What is the point to ACHIEVE anything?
Nerfs kill the game for almost every achiever.
If you don't understand the achievers, at least, try to remain open minded. A nerf is NOT acceptable. Maybe I can be rational and come to terms and accept 1 SMALL thing once in a while...but IH/ED??? Never. I would have to explain to you how they should IMPROVE invul, yet they nerf it (based on scrappers, while mainly it is for tankers/brutes to compete with stoner). See 1 set with 9 defensive powers that stack...is weaker than a set with 8 defensive powers which doesn't stack (Mud pot is offensive). Now, if you have to stack many powers, the endresult should be stronger, not weaker. But not with these devs...Granite crush it all. That's made no sense.
The worst drop they ever have in amounts of players is when they...IH and ED nerf. Say whatever you want, subs numbers support my point.
But wear these pinks glasses and keep thinking ED was good. It was awfull, it ruins the game for almost every achievers. Sure, socialisers and killers may find these fun/acceptable, but explorer won't give a damn and achievers will cry, and cry, and cry.
Achievers are like locusts -- they demolish everything in their path as quickly as possible and move on....
As to the OP, I think most CoX players are going to keep an open mind about CO and if CO is good enough, they'll move over, just like any other game.
Once Statesman left and Positron started adding things that seemed "cool," THAT is when the gameplay and overall enjoyability began to plummet.
Why don't you remove leveling and make everyone max level? What is the point to ACHIEVE anything?
Nerfs kill the game for almost every achiever.
If you don't understand the achievers, at least, try to remain open minded. A nerf is NOT acceptable. Maybe I can be rational and come to terms and accept 1 SMALL thing once in a while...but IH/ED??? Never. I would have to explain to you how they should IMPROVE invul, yet they nerf it (based on scrappers, while mainly it is for tankers/brutes to compete with stoner). See 1 set with 9 defensive powers that stack...is weaker than a set with 8 defensive powers which doesn't stack (Mud pot is offensive). Now, if you have to stack many powers, the endresult should be stronger, not weaker. But not with these devs...Granite crush it all. That's made no sense.
The worst drop they ever have in amounts of players is when they...IH and ED nerf. Say whatever you want, subs numbers support my point.
But wear these pinks glasses and keep thinking ED was good. It was awfull, it ruins the game for almost every achievers. Sure, socialisers and killers may find these fun/acceptable, but explorer won't give a damn and achievers will cry, and cry, and cry.
So let's see ... by your own admission, ONE group of players dislikes the change, TWO groups enjoy it, and another group doesn't care.Seems to me that's an overall positive reaction.
The only thing you've convinced me of is that I forgot to mention how a lot of people still wish they would NERF Granite Armor.
I wasn't a tank, so I understood why they got nerfed. I would have preferred to have had my powers given an overhaul so I could compete though. Pro buff, anti nerf.
Arenas, upon release, killed it for me, on my main, a gravity/forcefield magician. The fact that I couldn't compete with my tank/scrapper friends in PvP without ending in a 0/0 draw or me getting slaughtered. Containment was awesome, I loved it, but I still had gimp PvP powers.
Most super heroes got nerfed to heroes. I hope Champions won't get nerfed to winners. CoX became so narrow from what I expected them to release that it choked me out of paying that subscription fee.
Champions' promises are hitting the spot, and if it delivers, it gets my money.
I'm not here to complete my forum PVP dailies.
Actually, listening to a vocal minority is dangerous.
The average player will not even fills the final survey. Even less come on websites, official or not.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Achievers are the peoples who will play the game, even if they are alone. Socialisers will play the game if other are. Killers will play the game if other are.
See, CoX needs more achievers. Not less. See the comment of the persons saying they left cause it is a ghostown? How do you retain socialisers and killers? You retain them with achievers already playing your game and supporting it.
Nerfs are never acceptable. Once you give, you never take back. You can give more to "balance", but never take anything.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
True.
This is a good description of me and achievers. Althought a bit harsh.
However, the point is that a MMO could be designed in a way where the achiever never move on, and achieve more, more and more. You just have to find a way where the non-achievers can play and be happy and rule at what they do. Read my blog if you want to see a my solution for that.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
True.
This is a good description of me and achievers. Althought a bit harsh.
However, the point is that a MMO could be designed in a way where the achiever never move on, and achieve more, more and more. You just have to find a way where the non-achievers can play and be happy and rule at what they do. Read my blog if you want to see a my solution for that.
I hope you're sitting down because I'm kinda, sorta about to agree with you ( ' :
Initially I was going to disagree with you based on the premise that because content really is finite within a timeframe, there's no possible way for developers to keep up with players by adding more and more content. It's also wasteful to abandon that old content (i.e., galaxy city/atlas park/kings row) once you get past respective levels. So by offering replayability (encouraging altitis) especially with the group dynamics and the particular community of CoX, you could be able to extend the lifespan of the game. But, that's based on my personal preference of having fun playing multiple characters (which many people like to do) but it still doesn't satisfy those who must have the uber loot/badge/achievement.
So, how can I turn around and agree with you now? Well, i think we're beginning to reach a turning point in software design, particularly in games where game content can be dynamically generated and organically evolve. Look at Spore by Will Wright -- it is using "procedural generation" to dynamically create worlds and conflicts based on the decisions you make designing and leading your "entity". Sure, this is a single player game but I had recently (1 month ago?) come across an article about a programmer who was attempting to create an "morpg" (no massive in there) based on this same concept with an ROI based on a 30 person population. If it works and if this matures, we'll see the realization of truly unique shards in our mmo's and at least sufficiently new kinds of content available to the achievers (as well as others).
So, while I think mmos are best suited for those who "enjoy the journey", I do acknowledge that the achiever-types who like to win games provide a significant portion of the population (directly or indirectly as you describe).
never played coh but i may give this one a shot if it comes out soon
You should snag a free trial for CoX -- you may like it. ( ' :
I started playing CoX on its release date. My first characters were disappointing, but not enough to throw me out of the game. I later began testing the other Archetypes and trying different builds for my characters. I have discovered I like the Scrapper class best but still want(ed) to be able to use some ranged attacks. They later released the "issue" that had a ranged equivalent of the basic brawl or punch attack given to all characters. The "veterans" rewards also have some ranged attacks in them. I still today play the game, and yes I enjoy it.
Having said all that, I am really looking forward to the Champions-Online.
The "grind" is toughest in the higher levels in CoX and the missions are very repetitive, but the character creation alone is one of the best I've ever seen. Other than a few uninspired toons, I have almost never seen two of the same character. Also the ability to write your characters bio is something a lot of players ignore. I enjoy that as well.
I am a self professed Alt-A-Holic and have characters on every server available in the CoX game. I can solo or play in teams equally as well. I enjoy both the meat-grinder teams where we plow through everything in the mission, and the role playing social teams where we plan each engagement out and try to play in character.
I am hoping that CO lives up to all the hype, I will give it a shot, but I will also keep my CoX account open until I find out for sure the CO game will give me as much enjoyment as I have gotten out of CoX.
I was in CoH's closed beta and played a number of months here and there since then. I thought it was a fairly good game.
It isn't really an MMORPG by my standards because there is so little character building that can be done, so I am hoping that any new crimefighter type game has a MUCH deeper character developement aspect.
But, as others have said, I too try most of the games that come out so I will likely try this one too.
"The reality of the poor in America isn't the difference between The Haves and The Have Nots, it is the difference between The Haves and The Have Lots."
The leveling concept appeal to these locust-achievers. I see many socialisers not caring or plainly hating it. But, in the end, what matter to them is that peoples are online and playing. Achievers are online and playing to level up. :P I will always favore a level cap on each zone, so you can have more levels/stuff to earn in the whole game...if everyone is limited to level 20 in a zone, this is fine, it give a surrounding where the non-achiever can be happy...and it still leave the option to go in another zone and still level up for the achievers. Ideally, a system with a level cap, would encourage an achiever to comes back in old zone. But this "ideal" thing is also very dangerous, it should be similar to what the achievers are doing outside, but doing it with a group in the lowbie zone should be more appealing than doing it solo or duo in the highbee zone, for the highbee zone rewards.
Example, you have an unlimited levels game, but in a zone everyone is level 20 or less. The level 553 achiever comes and group, while he is level 20, as everyone else, he still earn good XP to progress toward level 554. The achiever only cares for his progression, if it is better for him to solo...he would. Now, a group in the level 20 zone is definitely easier than a group in the level 500+ zone; and you don't want peoples to sit on easy setting, but at the same time, you don't want them to turn them off automatically. I think, humbly, that someone should prefer a group, the highest level group possible, to any soloing, but that is merley my opinion and I would accept it, either way. In my example, the socialiser may be level 15 or 20 and not really caring for the highbees zone, but in this zone, he knows he will master it by level 20 if it even matter to him. It would definitely be possible to have a "rift" in the XP progression, in the sense that in every zone with a level cap, you must earn the XP here...but in the last unlimited levels area, all XP earn everywhere is good. Example. You have a game with 50 levels of designed content. If you are level 33 in my example...let's say you would earn 2 levels in that level 20 zone...you would be level 33+2, not level 35, this mean that when you enter the unlimited level zone, these XP kick in, but not before...so when you reach level 50, you will just move right away to level 52, for these XP you earn lowbie that couldn't be used to bypass regular content and zone stuff for the game, but still applies for the unlimited level "endgame".
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
the man behind statesman left COx, slowly but surely you're seeing enhancements introduced to the game that'll bring the 'super' back to hero.
that man is now behind champions online.
i'm keeping expectations low so i don't get disappointed overly much.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Actually, the nerfs were the GOOD decisions. The Tank herding nerf was the single greatest decision in MMO history. ED wasn't awful -- it was a necessary step toward inventions. Without ED, inventions would have been a nightmare to balance. Was your enjoyment of the game based entirely on a few 6-slotted powers? If so, that's a shame.
Once Statesman left and Positron started adding things that seemed "cool," THAT is when the gameplay and overall enjoyability began to plummet.
the irony of the quoted post is that ED was done and jack stated that inventions were on the shelf indefinitely (read - not happening - ever). so, ED wasn't actually done with inventions in mind, ED was in order to "fix" something that didn't fit with the vision of 1 hero = 3 minions.
i find the opposite to be true about states and posi. there have been a number of changes and additions the past couple of issues. i'm not thrilled with the idea of a second "raid" being added; but the way it was done is not in the "wow" vein of raiding for the most part. the time travel (being able to redo missed content) is very nice. more and more IO sets being added is also nice. being able to see the numbers behind the powers is great. i'm not sure what 'cool' changes were implemented that would detract from enjoyability.
FINALLY villains get epic ATs~!!
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
compared to most any mmo on the market, i'd have to disagree and say that COx has at least as much (many cases much more) depth than other games.
COx is truly a game you DON'T have to min/max and you can still have a totally playable character. heck, i think you are even capable of building a petless MM and have that character contribute noticeably on a team.
are you talking about 'personal' contacts/background/etc that actually plays a part in the game? such as the creating your arch-nemesis thing? if you read the stories and notice the outbursts made by villains ingame, you are the hero/center of the stories (in COx). even on a team, if it's your mission, the villains are trash talking you, not a random team member. have a vendetta against council? do council missions. every one of the council bosses will be "oh noes, it's Chocolate Cake Baker! kill her/him!"
i'm still hoping skills make an appearance on COx. perhaps it's a toy jack took with him and didn't leave at COx. if CO is done like PnP Champs; then, this will be an interesting character building process. not just initial creation, but as the character matures/levels/whatever.
i guess i'm just not sure what you mean by more depth. ?
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I beta'd CoH and played in release for 2-3 months before becoming bored with the game. But I am mostly hopeful because I'm a long time Champions player and I'm hoping to find some of the same flexibility here, where feasible of course.
I might
I'm not super hyped just because, especially post-launch, Statesman was making a lot of changes to the game to the way 'he liked' and balances and nerfs that 'he liked.' Things that players often were much against it. Sure it was his MMOG, but post release it becomes about your players, and many players really disliked many of his changes, myself included.
Then Positron got lead dev and the game has constantly improved since.
So I'm gonna wait and see how possessive about the game Jack Emmert gets, and how the game shapes up and if it's a game he wants, or a game players want.
Seems, and hope, that they will put here the things I dont like from CoX .- faster combat and more pvp... lets see, it can be great!
I dunno, it seems to be losing a lot of its old character for me. It might be because I've been playing it for 3 years or that the general direction of the game seems to be heading the same way as all the other MMOs out there. It's prolly a combination of both to be honest. One of the big things I loved about CoH back in the day is that it wasn't an aquisitive game with pressure to farm in order to be "competitive". I hate farming, it's a tedious waste of time that shoudl be spent having fun, and I promised myself a long time ago I'd never play a game that expected me to farm again. I do enough boring "inf" grinding in real life
Anyway, I'm really looking forward to Champions Online. For all the hate that's piled on Statesman he did create one of the very few original MMOs out there and I'm interested to see what new features he brings to CO.
I've been playing CoV for about 7 months (taking a break from it for now), and it was the first MMO that I've ever paid a monthly fee for lol.
I'm really looking forward to Champions Online; From reading Game Informer's issue about 2 months ago, Cryptic is going to implement everything that they could't do in CoH/CoV. Their also revamping the customization and combat play, so i'm looking forward to CO.
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I'm on a wait and see approach. The game is really starting to sound a lot like CoH2 which is not what I'm interested in doing again. I'm also a bit worried about Jack being in charge. He really has a problem with soloers in his games and that is my primary preference. Soloing in CoH is like pulling teeth, boring and painful, so I don't hold much hope for an improvement in Champions.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
i dont do COH but Champions seen like another CoH to me. However, this game can really take off if it has more features than CoH