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Is it FAR too much work to create a virtual world for thousands?

MaragoldMaragold Member Posts: 20

I was having a discussion in the General forrums about a game that delivers more in depth  game play.  I got this response:

"Be realistic. It's FAR too much work to create a virtual world for thousands of players among the many other things that must be built (graphics engine, client / server, etc...)."

Is he right?  Citadel of Sorcery seems to claim differently.

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Comments

  • JatarJatar Member UncommonPosts: 348

    Originally posted by Maragold


    I was having a discussion in the General forrums about a game that delivers more in depth  game play.  I got this response:
    "Be realistic. It's FAR too much work to create a virtual world for thousands of players among the many other things that must be built (graphics engine, client / server, etc...)."
    Is he right?  Citadel of Sorcery seems to claim differently.
    The truth is that he is somewhat correct, it is a lot of work to create a world like this, but we have been working on our own game engine for several years to handle this very issue.  So it isn't 'too much work' just a lot of work.

    I'm not at liberty to explain how, but I can tell you what we are doing.  Adventures will be created for the player, not scripted.  In other words, you could not look up an adventure you are going to take part in on a spoiler site, as it is custom made for your character by our Quest Generation code. 

    The magic behind this is not simple, but it is the crux of MMO Magic's Citadel of Sorcery experience.  We're betting millions on the technology to give players like yourself what they have asked for, better game play in a virtual world for thousands.

    I hope this answers the question sufficiently.

  • HairysunHairysun Member UncommonPosts: 1,059

      One can only hope that depth will return to the genera.  I spend alot of time reading info from devs and people directly tied to the industry.  It seems many feel that safe and lazy has taken over.  The influx of copy cat MMOs for the most part proves this.  Innovation has been side lined for the proven WoW format.  They think the habit of the player is to play for a couple/few months and move on to the next one.  Which unfortunately is exactly what most do.....and here's the catch.....because the games are all linear bread crumb trails with the depth of a puddle.

      It will hit them one day that if they create a good skill based sandbox, people will stay there for more than a few months.  Is this game I speak of possible?  Sure....it just requires effort in a different direction....a direction that everyone seems scared of. 

    ~Hairysun~

  • SilverminkSilvermink Member Posts: 289

    Reminds me of the Adventure construction set from eons ago. It randomly generated a mini dungeon for you.

  • JatarJatar Member UncommonPosts: 348

     

    Originally posted by Silvermink


    Reminds me of the Adventure construction set from eons ago. It randomly generated a mini dungeon for you.

    I remember that game, the problem with it was that the generated dungeons seemed too random. 

     

    We're addressing that issue by taking your past history into account and using that data as part of the system for creating your new adventure.  What you did, who you did it to or with, all of this and more is used by our quest generation system to create a story driven adventure that allows the player choices to guide the path and outcome.  

    Trust me when I tell you that it is quite a bit more in depth than generating a random dungeon. 

  • JatarJatar Member UncommonPosts: 348

    Originally posted by Hairysun


      One can only hope that depth will return to the genera.  I spend alot of time reading info from devs and people directly tied to the industry.  It seems many feel that safe and lazy has taken over.  The influx of copy cat MMOs for the most part proves this.  Innovation has been side lined for the proven WoW format.  They think the habit of the player is to play for a couple/few months and move on to the next one.  Which unfortunately is exactly what most do.....and here's the catch.....because the games are all linear bread crumb trails with the depth of a puddle.
      It will hit them one day that if they create a good skill based sandbox, people will stay there for more than a few months.  Is this game I speak of possible?  Sure....it just requires effort in a different direction....a direction that everyone seems scared of. 
    ~Hairysun~
    Well, at MMO Magic we were not afraid to break the current mold of games.  In order to do so we have self financed the creation of an engire game engine built specially to create a new kiind of game playing experience in an MMO game.

    Our objective from day one was to create a level of game play not yet seen in the MMO market.  The idea is simple, more interesting and diverse game play that  keeps players coming back longer.  This will make more money for the publisher, AND, even more importantly, it makes for a more enjoyable experience for the players.  Both sides win.

     

  • HairysunHairysun Member UncommonPosts: 1,059

     

    Originally posted by Jatar


     
    Originally posted by Hairysun


      One can only hope that depth will return to the genera.  I spend alot of time reading info from devs and people directly tied to the industry.  It seems many feel that safe and lazy has taken over.  The influx of copy cat MMOs for the most part proves this.  Innovation has been side lined for the proven WoW format.  They think the habit of the player is to play for a couple/few months and move on to the next one.  Which unfortunately is exactly what most do.....and here's the catch.....because the games are all linear bread crumb trails with the depth of a puddle.
      It will hit them one day that if they create a good skill based sandbox, people will stay there for more than a few months.  Is this game I speak of possible?  Sure....it just requires effort in a different direction....a direction that everyone seems scared of. 
    ~Hairysun~
    Well, at MMO Magic we were not afraid to break the current mold of games.  In order to do so we have self financed the creation of an engire game engine built specially to create a new kiind of game playing experience in an MMO game.

     

    Our objective from day one was to create a level of game play not yet seen in the MMO market.  The idea is simple, more interesting and diverse game play that  keeps players coming back longer.  This will make more money for the publisher, AND, even more importantly, it makes for a more enjoyable experience for the players.  Both sides win.

     

       With all due respect.......anyone who has been following MMORPGs has been hearing this kind of thing for a mighty long time.  The forums are filled with posts from people who bought into the hype about this game or that game only to find out they wasted $50.  It's more than the money for most I think.  Everyone who frequents this site wants to find that "perfect" game that keeps them entertained for.... well...... years.

     

     

      The perfect game........it certainly differs from one player to another.  I do however feel there is an untapped market in the sandbox area.  I can't wait for the day when I log into a game and am overwhelmed as to what I should do next........"so much to do, so little time."  I can honestly say I havn't felt that since pre-cu swg.  (I hate playing the swg card, there is so much stigma attached to it.....but it is quite simply an unfortunate fact.)  The depth of that game, still to this day, amazes me.  

      Regardless, I wish MMO Magic the best of luck in their endeavors.  The things you say sound great and I truly appreciate the level of communication you have displayed with your potential player base.

    ~Hairysun~

             

     

  • JatarJatar Member UncommonPosts: 348


     
     
     
     
     
       Regardless, I wish MMO Magic the best of luck in their endeavors.  The things you say sound great and I truly appreciate the level of communication you have displayed with your potential player base.
    ~Hairysun~
             
     

    Thank you.  One of the main reasons that we went ahead and listed the game on here at this point in development was to start communication with our potential player base.  We want input on the game at a point where that input can still have an impact.  I'm not talking about art here, that is something that will improve with time and enough artists, I'm talking about the game play. 

    We have built the technology, we will create the art, and we've designed the best game possible.  Now we just need to tweak the ideas and start testing.  The fans can help us in both areas, so here we are standing naked in the force of the storm of opinions and  jaded views.  Victims of other games that have 'cried wolf' and then not delivered on their promises.   Only time will tell if we can do as we promise, but all I can tell you now is that we have spent three years unwavering on our goals.  There are no outside pressures forcing us down the 'clone' path.  This game will be different, the question is, do players really want a new type of MMO game?  We think so, and have invested amazing numbers of man hours based on that belief.  It reminds me of that baseball movie, "If you build it, they will come".  There too, only time will tell.

  • saohcsaohc Member Posts: 41

    I honestly wish more companys would follow this example. Most companys are too hung up in trying to make money. What they do not understand is that if you break the mold that is what we see today, you could possibly make more money then others. Sure it is a big risk to take. You hold the pros in one hand and the cons in another.

     

    I do hope you guys at mmo magic can break this mold. Much luck and respect your company for trying something different.

  • nightwing70nightwing70 Member Posts: 142

    Citadel Of Sorcery OWNS!

  • TesinatoTesinato Member UncommonPosts: 222

    Your ideas seem very interesting.  The way you explained how the world lives and breathes just makes it sounds so nice.  Log in and any number of things could be happening, but the next day, some or even none of those could be going on.  It is very nice to finally see someone trying to step away from the mold.  If you guys have spent 3 years just working on what you have now, and aren't being pressured, then I think you guys will succeed.  I read the articles posted and I was like when is this coming out.  It sounds perfect, and something I could seriously get lost in, which is a very good thing for me.  I wish you guys the best.  Please don't rush it though.  Make sure the game is complete.  Nothing worse then a failed launch, you never recover.

  • JatarJatar Member UncommonPosts: 348

     

    Originally posted by Shadowlord10


    Your ideas seem very interesting.  The way you explained how the world lives and breathes just makes it sounds so nice.  Log in and any number of things could be happening, but the next day, some or even none of those could be going on.  It is very nice to finally see someone trying to step away from the mold.  If you guys have spent 3 years just working on what you have now, and aren't being pressured, then I think you guys will succeed.  I read the articles posted and I was like when is this coming out.  It sounds perfect, and something I could seriously get lost in, which is a very good thing for me.  I wish you guys the best.  Please don't rush it though.  Make sure the game is complete.  Nothing worse then a failed launch, you never recover.

    I hear you, and we couldn't agree more.  The last thing we want to do is release this new game before the bugs are out and play is solid.  The fact is, we are attempting a very difficult game concept, and there are good reasons other game companies have not tried to make this type of game.  It is MUCH easier to put an NPC standing on a corner who hands out the same simple grocery list quest to any player that stops by.  This is simple to code, eash to debug, and can be repeated with different things to collect in hundreds of places. 

     

     

    We aren't doing that.  Imagine the amount of potential bugs in a quest where what you do and decide during the quest changes the outcome and path of the quest? 

     

    It gets worse, not better.  There are  many variables in the game to allow each player to have a unique adventure (they cannot  look it up on a web site, it's unique).  This means more potential bugs. 

     

    We've had to write special tools to error check quests when they are built.  We also designed a quest choice logging system to keep track of an individuals quest during testing so we can 'replay' the choices and actions of a test player to see where it went wrong. 

     

    But, in the end, it is all worth it to get better game play.  I want real quests, with choice and consequences for my actions, good or bad.  We can do that, and we'll just work hard to get the game solid before we put it out there.  I'm not telling you all this to scare you, I'm telling you that we know the problems, and have sought solutions and will NOT release the game until it is ready.

     

    However, we will run lots of Alpha and Beta tests to help us get it cleaned up.  There is nothing like a bunch of rabid gamers coming in to turn over every stone and see what we left by accident.  Then... we just have to fix it all :)

  • mike470mike470 General CorrespondentMember Posts: 2,396

     

    Originally posted by Jatar


     
    Originally posted by Shadowlord10


    Your ideas seem very interesting.  The way you explained how the world lives and breathes just makes it sounds so nice.  Log in and any number of things could be happening, but the next day, some or even none of those could be going on.  It is very nice to finally see someone trying to step away from the mold.  If you guys have spent 3 years just working on what you have now, and aren't being pressured, then I think you guys will succeed.  I read the articles posted and I was like when is this coming out.  It sounds perfect, and something I could seriously get lost in, which is a very good thing for me.  I wish you guys the best.  Please don't rush it though.  Make sure the game is complete.  Nothing worse then a failed launch, you never recover.

    I hear you, and we couldn't agree more.  The last thing we want to do is release this new game before the bugs are out and play is solid.  The fact is, we are attempting a very difficult game concept, and there are good reasons other game companies have not tried to make this type of game.  It is MUCH easier to put an NPC standing on a corner who hands out the same simple grocery list quest to any player that stops by.  This is simple to code, eash to debug, and can be repeated with different things to collect in hundreds of places. 

     

     

    We aren't doing that.  Imagine the amount of potential bugs in a quest where what you do and decide during the quest changes the outcome and path of the quest? 

     

    It gets worse, not better.  There are  many variables in the game to allow each player to have a unique adventure (they cannot  look it up on a web site, it's unique).  This means more potential bugs. 

     

    We've had to write special tools to error check quests when they are built.  We also designed a quest choice logging system to keep track of an individuals quest during testing so we can 'replay' the choices and actions of a test player to see where it went wrong. 

     

    But, in the end, it is all worth it to get better game play.  I want real quests, with choice and consequences for my actions, good or bad.  We can do that, and we'll just work hard to get the game solid before we put it out there.  I'm not telling you all this to scare you, I'm telling you that we know the problems, and have sought solutions and will NOT release the game until it is ready.

     

    However, we will run lots of Alpha and Beta tests to help us get it cleaned up.  There is nothing like a bunch of rabid gamers coming in to turn over every stone and see what we left by accident.  Then... we just have to fix it all :)

     

    Good news :), no need to rush and turn into Vangaurd or Dark and Light.

    __________________________________________________
    In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten

  • TesinatoTesinato Member UncommonPosts: 222

    That is great to know.  I'm glad to hear that.  For once, it isn't just about money, it is about gameplay.  I love you guys already.

  • HashbrickHashbrick Member RarePosts: 1,842

    I'm loving it, finally innovation at its best. We needed this for so long, I hope you guys pull everything you dreamed and more.

    Also if you haven't already I'd get in touch with mmorpg.com and get a spot in the developer blog so you have a place to save/view discussions and get feedback in a much more organized manor. Forum posts come and go but blogs live forever ;).

    I'm a simple man spoiled from MMOs of the old age.  Looking for a home but deserted.  My heart and time is not worthy for the MMOs of the new age.
  • Villain007Villain007 Member Posts: 1

    Have to agree with everything Hairysun has said.

    I miss pre-cu Star Wars for the same reason's.

    But im going to keep my eye on Citadel of Sorcery, and wish the dev's nothing but luck and success.

     

  • AethiosAethios Member Posts: 1,527


    Originally posted by Maragold
    "Be realistic. It's FAR too much work to create a virtual world for thousands of players among the many other things that must be built (graphics engine, client / server, etc...)."


    Translation: WoW clones are easy, everything else is a waste of time/money/effort.

    I STRONGLY disagree. If you're going to do it, do it right. Whoever told you that, Maragold, is deluded and has no business in the game industry. Was it too much work to create Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, and Eberron under the D&D system? Infrastructure itself is not enough, it needs to have a face; skin should cover its bones and hide the ugly inner workings. When we play this game, we should forget we're playing the game and feel like the NPCs are living their lives and not idly waiting for us to complete their quests and move on.

    WoW NPCs, while boring, stale and flat, at least can make you laugh sometimes. They have personality, even if it's not very lifelike.

  • jagust05jagust05 Member Posts: 27

    Originally posted by nightwing70


    Citadel Of Sorcery OWNS!

    I agree heartily with nightwing, CoS does own, they have gone out on a limb to create a new kind of game that i think if executed correctly will change the world of future mmorpgs forever!

  • noobzornoobzor Member Posts: 43

    yes juagoust05 but let us hope that the limb they climbed upon is not too weak for the weight, though there goals are heavenly the fall may break them.

     

    with that being said i think that you have to spend money to make money i also think that this works with quantitys the more money you spend to make somthing the more quality it gets  meaning more buyers.

    the game plan sounds totaly awsome (awsome i said AWSOME, I RULE) i cant wait for beta and alpha tests and i am totaly thrilled at the possibilty that i get a ability/story driven game.

    the only thing left for me to say is good luck and may you find great insperation.(i have)

    oh ya Jatar you have officioly become my Developer Hero.

     

  • skipethskipeth Member Posts: 66

    It's quite true that you have to spend money to make money, but it is also true that the more money you spend, the more you have to loose.

    Publishers look at return on investment.  A high-risk development that may not work, a lack of brand name (LotR, AoC, DDo, Blizzard) and a market dominated by WoW makes for high risk and low estimated returns.  Whereas, if you can rehash the same crap with some new textures in a year for minimal cost and have a good chance that enough suckers will rotate through your game, then you'll make your investment back.

    Currently CoS has no publisher with a deadline, so they can focus on development.  Blizzard is the only game company I can think of where the developers say when a game is ready for release, not the publishers who decide on the schedule.

    Speaking of Blizzard.  I'm looking forward to their next gen MMORPG.  They have announced that it won't be a WoW clone.  Speculation is that it will be Starcraft, but really that'd be just a WoW clone with a new set of models.   Since Blizzard understands the need for both great gameplay and story, I would wager that they will be attempting a story building system more like what CoS has done.

  • stayontargetstayontarget Member RarePosts: 6,495
    Originally posted by Maragold


    I was having a discussion in the General forrums about a game that delivers more in depth  game play.  I got this response:
    "Be realistic. It's FAR too much work to create a virtual world for thousands of players among the many other things that must be built (graphics engine, client / server, etc...)."
    Is he right?  Citadel of Sorcery seems to claim differently.

    It takes a lot of work just to make your own in house engine (add 3 more years in dev). But leasing a game engine cost funds.

    Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...

  • JatarJatar Member UncommonPosts: 348

    We did a little of both. We leased an engine, with source code for a reasonable fee to keep costs down. Then we spent a lot of time advancing that engine to better meet the needs of Citadel of Sorcery. We did this because there wasn't a game engine out there that could do what we needed for this new type of game. (At least, not one available to us for lease).



    As for Blizzard doing a story driven game like Citadel of Sorcery, I hope you are not referring to WoW. We couldn't be more different than WoW if we were from a different galaxy. We have nothing in common.

    For a sample of what game play is like in CoS, read the Tour on the www.citadelofsorcery.com web site. Note the player decisions along the way, and how that will change what happens. Note the past history of the player getting involved in the current quest (Sir Vorglan and a NPC friend). Our game really has nothing in common with WoW or its many clones.



    As for 'you have to spend money to make money',  hmmm, no... can't agree with that completely. Ask the guys who made Vanguard how much money was spent and how well the game is doing. I'm not saying that money can't help, and isn't necessary, but truthfully, it's what you make and not how much you spend that will color your success.  With the information flow of the net, a good game will attract players and a bad one, regardless of money spent or license, will fail.



    There are games out there with big budgets, and big licenses (Conan, D&D, LOTRO) that are not doing that well from all reports. Why? Same reason, they made yet another clone of the same old MMO game and people get tired of the same old thing quickly now. I've worked at several game companies over my time, and I've worked with big teams that wasted a lot of money, and I've worked with small teams of talented and dedicated people. The efficiency of the small team allows them to achieve better results for far less money. That’s what the plan is with CoS, and we've stuck to it for several years now.



    However, you are right about the lack of Publisher deadlines helping the quality of the game. MMO Magic decided to fund the early portions of the game so that they didn't have a deadline that made them change the original goals of the game design.

    Now, I'm not here to bad mouth Publishers. They have their own problems, and once they stick their neck out with a lot of money, the clock is ticking, and they have to get the product finished on schedule or cost overruns will kill them. We understand this because many o f us have worked with many publishers in the past. By making the most difficult portion of the game before working with a publisher we have taken one of the worst risks away. They don't have to wonder if the new technology and game play work, or if it will run over budget (as R&D almost always does). That's all done for them ahead of time. All they have to do is fund some art and level building time, which is VERY predictable and not very risky for going over budget. So, this way we can make something new, at a reasonable price, and the publishers can avoid some of the typical risks. Players get a better game, so they hopefully stick around longer playing (which is better for them, and makes the publisher more money).



    We're not very far away now from having all the 'risky' portions completed. It's been hard on us as a small developer, but we have endured and are nearing our original goals. We have not had to compromise the design once... in fact, if anything, we expanded it to make the game play even better. We're still not releasing dates for completion, simply because there is still one major piece of new technology that is under development. Being 'new' we have no idea what kind of bugs we will find and how long it will take to complete. However, having no deadline, we are not being pressured by anyone (accept a few fans who want to know when the Beta testing will start, you know who you are! 



    So, the final piece of 'risky' technology will get done, we just don't know when. When that is complete, we will finally begin some player testing and let some publishers take a look at something new, Citadel of Sorcery.  The idea of something 'new'  will scare a few of them, and (hopefully) a couple of the wiser publishers (you know who YOU are too) will realize that players are looking for a better game, not another clone.  We have recieved countless emails  from players who are interested in Citadel of Sorcery, and each and every one of them wants something new and better in a MMO.  We're working on it.

     

     

     

     

  • skipethskipeth Member Posts: 66
    Originally posted by Jatar


    As for Blizzard doing a story driven game like Citadel of Sorcery, I hope you are not referring to WoW. We couldn't be more different than WoW if we were from a different galaxy. We have nothing in common.  
     
     



     

    I'm referring to Blizzard's announcement awhile back looking for developers for a "Next Generation  MMORPG".  They have at length stated that it is not a WoW clone and in fact is very different from WoW. 

    The fanboy base for blizzard seems to want a Starcraft MMORPG.  Which would be WoW with 3 race models, and make the settings a futuristic environment with space-age equipment.  Oh, look a WoW clone.

    My point is that Blizzard takes innovative development seriously and they intend to not make a WoW clone.  The next logical step in my opinion is the creation of a living world where the players participate in a story, where each individual has a unique story.  Oh hey, that sounds like CoS. 

    But whatever Blizzard does for it's next gen mmorpg, it's gonna have to be pretty badass and unique not to get labeled a WoW clone.

  • TdogSkalTdogSkal Member UncommonPosts: 1,244
    Originally posted by skipeth

    Originally posted by Jatar


    As for Blizzard doing a story driven game like Citadel of Sorcery, I hope you are not referring to WoW. We couldn't be more different than WoW if we were from a different galaxy. We have nothing in common.  
     
     



     

    I'm referring to Blizzard's announcement awhile back looking for developers for a "Next Generation  MMORPG".  They have at length stated that it is not a WoW clone and in fact is very different from WoW. 

    The fanboy base for blizzard seems to want a Starcraft MMORPG.  Which would be WoW with 3 race models, and make the settings a futuristic environment with space-age equipment.  Oh, look a WoW clone.

    My point is that Blizzard takes innovative development seriously and they intend to not make a WoW clone.  The next logical step in my opinion is the creation of a living world where the players participate in a story, where each individual has a unique story.  Oh hey, that sounds like CoS. 

    But whatever Blizzard does for it's next gen mmorpg, it's gonna have to be pretty badass and unique not to get labeled a WoW clone.



     

    Look Blizzard is a very smart company.  They know their player base and they know what that player base demands/wants.   If we have learned anything from Blizzard is they are great at making the perfect game for their player base.

    Blizzard will not step away from the WoW mold, not far enough away.  They are too smart to break their own money making mold.

    CoS is going to force the "Old School" gamers to change how they think of "Questing" and "Grouping" in MMORPGs.  Read the post on their website under "Tour"  and you will understand what I mean.

    I look forward to blizzards next gen MMO as well, the problem is that every time we hear "Next Gen" and "MMO" in the same sentence, it never works out in the end.   Signed Vanguard, Dark and Light and AoC and many more.

    Blizzard has its market, they are smart enough to know what thier market demands and knows not to wonder to far away from the money pit it created.

    Look I played WoW.  WoW is a good game for what it is.  Make no mistake about it, WoW set the new bar for MMOs in the publishers eyes and they want to find the next "WoW".

    We as gamers know that the next "WoW" is not going to be anything like the last "WoW".  Look at the last #1 MMO.   Everquest.  Everquest was the MMO that set the bar in the beginning.  Then WoW came along and set the new bar.  Now some of you will say that WoW is a EQ1 clone but its not.  They are different games with a few things in common.

    Sooner or Later

  • DakirnDakirn Member UncommonPosts: 374
    Originally posted by skipeth

    Originally posted by Jatar


    As for Blizzard doing a story driven game like Citadel of Sorcery, I hope you are not referring to WoW. We couldn't be more different than WoW if we were from a different galaxy. We have nothing in common.  
     
     



     

    I'm referring to Blizzard's announcement awhile back looking for developers for a "Next Generation  MMORPG".  They have at length stated that it is not a WoW clone and in fact is very different from WoW. 

    The fanboy base for blizzard seems to want a Starcraft MMORPG.  Which would be WoW with 3 race models, and make the settings a futuristic environment with space-age equipment.  Oh, look a WoW clone.

    My point is that Blizzard takes innovative development seriously and they intend to not make a WoW clone.  The next logical step in my opinion is the creation of a living world where the players participate in a story, where each individual has a unique story.  Oh hey, that sounds like CoS. 

    But whatever Blizzard does for it's next gen mmorpg, it's gonna have to be pretty badass and unique not to get labeled a WoW clone.



     

    Blizzard isn't changing Diablo 3 to be very much different than Diablo 2.

    Why?  Because they know that it will make money without the need for costly innovations and redesigning everything.

    A new "next gen" MMO from Blizzard will not be a hugely complex game. It's too risky and would take too much time.  How many years are we going to wait for Diablo 3?

    Many games have tried complexity and failed.  The problem is that their complexity was only attempting to make the same type of game a little bit deeper. They failed because it just ended up being the same game with a slightly different skin.

    Fortunately CoS is actually trying to turn the genre on it's head and return to the core beliefs that made RPGs fun -- a living world where the things you do actually matter.

    I'm personally waiting for baited breath having played everything else out there.

  • PellagrenPellagren Member Posts: 32

    I have been playing these games for many, many years now.  I know that each and every "new" game that comes out holds my attention for less and less time.  I find myself playing the same game over and over and over again, only with a different name and a few new gimmicks which are supposed to represent advances. 

    I know very little more than what has been written here about CoS.  I do not know if they will suceed.  I do not know if the game will be fun or if it will ever be published at all.  However, what I do know is this.  I know that this is at least a new game attempting to actually make something new within this genre and that is more than enough to have my full attention.

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