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  • mike470mike470 General CorrespondentMember Posts: 2,396

    Originally posted by ste2000

    Originally posted by Jatar


     
    The point here is that enemies have changing goals and varying intelligence.  They will never stand around and wait to be killed... they get on with their business.
    How we are doing this is one of  the technologies we have been working on for three years.
    I know you have probably never seen this in other MMO games, and becasue of that you thnk that it can't be true.   Unfortunatly there is nothing I can say that will convince you, too many other games have 'cried wolf'.  So I will say this, when it comes out, play the game and see for yourself.  Until then, why tell us what we can't do?  At MMO Magic, we don't believe in setting limits.



    I always said that the third (3rd) Generation MMORPG will be the one which will be able to implement a superior Artificial Intelligence.

    Any other game that claimed was next generation MMO failed miserably cause what current MMO, and games in general, are all variation of EQ architecture.



    So if your game can deliver a superior AI, I will be very interested in it.



    2 things though:

    Firstly, although I understand that you dedicated all your development to the engine and the toolset, you really need to improve the graphic.

    At the moment is very unattractive, and I am afraid majority of players care about good graphic even if they will never admit it in public (not even to themselves).



    Secondly, The website is again very poor, any amateur webdesigner can do a much better job than that.

    And if you want to be taken seriously, at least the website should look a little bit professional.



    If you can sort those 2 issues in the next few months then, I might become very interested in this game (certainly I don't expect to improve the graphic of the entire game in 2 months, a couple of 3D models would be enough to understand its potential)



    Anyway good luck with it, I always respect small companies which try to make it in the difficult market of MMORPGs.


    The AI is one of the great things about this game, I think.

    As for your two things -

    Graphics are being worked on and they will be adding better graohics later on in the development.

    Wensite- The devs are working on the game right now...And they are going to make a new website later.

    Both of these were already stated in earlier pages, probably said about 5 times actually...Did you read the other posts on this thread...?

    __________________________________________________
    In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten

  • mike470mike470 General CorrespondentMember Posts: 2,396

    If you could please answer once you get the chance -

    Is there a group of quests that everyone can do, not just your own personal quest, so I will be able to do it with a group and we will both get the same rewards?

    Also, I sent an e-mail..How will i knoq if it has been recieved?

    Thanks :)

    __________________________________________________
    In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten

  • dafuzzledafuzzle Member Posts: 160

    Is there pvp in this game, and if there is does it make it challenging to have a PvE character do well in PvP.

    Also, if there is pvp, do you plan to have different types of, i dunno the exact word, "modes" of pvp.  Like 1v1, 2v2, guild vs. guild, etc...

  • JatarJatar Member UncommonPosts: 348

    Originally posted by mike470


    Is there a group of quests that everyone can do, not just your own personal quest, so I will be able to do it with a group and we will both get the same rewards?
     
    All quests and missions can be done by a group, even your personal quest.  Think of your personal quest in terms of real life.  If I join you to go do something it becomes a part of both of our personal quest.  They will diverge again when we separate and continue down other paths, perhaps with other people. 

    Your story becomes the string of events that flows through various combinations of groups and solo adventure.   This system can be used for a player to solo the entire game, or conversely to group with a set of friends at the beginning and flow through the story together.  Or it can be from any combination of various groupings and solo (as stated above).

    There are problems and issues to overcome in a system like this, and we have spent considerable time and effort to solve these issues.  How we solved them is a discussion for another day, closer to release.

  • jagust05jagust05 Member Posts: 27

    I just gotta say that you guys seem really dedicated to this game and the new concepts with quests and instanced adventuring.  At first i was a little wary of the greater percentage of the game being played in an instance, but i think that is very innovative and exciting...plus it cuts out kill steals and all the other myriad of problems with social battlegrounds.  I am very excited to give this game a try and would also like to be ready for beta testing, so i will send an e-mail and hopefully i'll be considered.

     

    One question that i have has to do with the quests:  i know that this game and it's quests are designed to be totally playable though solo adventures.  I was just wondering how you achieve a solo (or an "easier quest" i guess would be more appropriate) becoming challenging for a group of friends to do...e.g. do the monsters become harder to fight if there are more people in your instance?

     

    Thanks a lot to Jatar for all the info and posts, and thanks also to Mike470 for your great questions, they have helped me a lot!

  • jagust05jagust05 Member Posts: 27

    One other quick question i had: will the game at some point force social interaction?  I mean that is kinda the point of MMO's right, to get people to play together?  Although i don't know if force is the right word, i think "encourage people to game together" would be more appropriate. Thanks!

  • JatarJatar Member UncommonPosts: 348

    Originally posted by jagust05


    One other quick question i had: will the game at some point force social interaction?  I mean that is kinda the point of MMO's right, to get people to play together?  Although i don't know if force is the right word, i think "encourage people to game together" would be more appropriate. Thanks!
    I'm not sure we see the point of MMOs as encouraging social interaction; rather we look at MMOs as making social interaction available while playing the game.  Our philosophy is to simply offer great game play and let the players decide what they want to do, interact or not. 

    However, there are aspects of game play that can only be experienced by grouping.  We're adding a lot of tactical possibilities in combat that just aren't possible when playing solo.  If this 'encourages' them to group uip in order to have that kind of experience, then yes, we do encourage people to group.

    Also, we offer various non-questing social areas, like the card house, casino, theaters, bathhouse, and other places where players can purely socialize when they don't feel like questing or doing any of the other types of game play choices.

  • dafuzzledafuzzle Member Posts: 160

    hey, i got my e-mail for the testing, do you have an approxamite (i think that's how you spell it) time to when the beta should start around?  Thanks in advanced

  • mike470mike470 General CorrespondentMember Posts: 2,396

    If you could please answer once you get the chance -

    You say that for the quests, that it will not say "kill so many of this 10 times" etc.  Does this mean that killing will not be involved in quests, or just not repetitive killing?

    Thanks :)

    __________________________________________________
    In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten

  • JatarJatar Member UncommonPosts: 348

     

    Originally posted by mike470
    You say that for the quests, that it will not say "kill so many of this 10 times" etc.  Does this mean that killing will not be involved in quests, or just not repetitive killing?

     

    Fighting is absolutely integral to the enjoyment of the game.  Just because a quest doesn't send you to get fifteen of the same things just means that we don't want you to be doing repetitive tasks as a 'quest' in order to burn up time.   Instead we're working on a quest generation system that helps to create variations in quest content. 

    MMO games in general are always having to deal with the challenge to offer content over time.  When a power gamer is in the game playing hour after hour without sleep they can burn through game content in record time.  Writing interesting quest content to handle that kind of pounding is a difficult prospect for developers.  After all, if you look at the average single player RPG, they generally offer about 40 to 100 hours of game play before you reach the conclusion.  In an MMO it is possible for a player to burn that kind of time in one week (who needs sleep?) Generally MMO games use repetitive monster killing grinds to solve this content issue so that players can keep going month after month. 

    Citadel of Sorcery will have plenty of monster killing as well, even sand box areas where players can go to do some mindless, yet at times, very enjoyable battle.  Sometimes that is what you feel like doing, rather than having to use more brain power in solving a full on quest.

    However, when you do want something more challenging our quest generation system will attempt ot give you more interesting content, with enough variation that even a power gamer can spend as much time as they wish doing our challenging quests.  These adventures will still have plenty of combat involved, but mostly as part of the current story rather than the point of the story, and certainly, not repetitively killing the same thing several times.

  • andy1073andy1073 Member Posts: 10

    This game looks really good.  Graphics engine isnt top notch but the ideas and game looks great.  I just hope they can live upto there promises.

  • DanubusDanubus Member Posts: 169

    A few things Id like to point out to people...When EQ was not even in beta they had a very lackluster black and purple website up with gates and some text. Verant was a small group of people working on their game and the website wasnt important at that time the quality of the game was. Im sure once a publisher comes on board or they hirer some web design then all those complaining about the website will all relax. Its the least important thing right now. People are too caught up in hype and pretty graphics. If  the gameplay delivers then I personally can overlook things. I admit, the game graphics are pretty cheesy right now, but hopefully they will listen to us and improve the system (after all thats why they listed the game to conduct dialogue with potential customers).

    A lot of people had tons of fun playing NWN for example because of gameplay and what others did with the game. Graphics were shoddy, but people still love the game today. If this company delivers what most of us who care about-- story, character development, etc then thats great.

  • jeppahjeppah Member Posts: 56

    Can you chop wood? 

     

  • mike470mike470 General CorrespondentMember Posts: 2,396
    Originally posted by Netuddki


    Looks very amateurish. I wouldn't hold my breath for this to be released.
    There is a more professional project in work and theycan't find a publisher/investor since 3 years.
    check it out: http://renaissance-mmorpg.com
    Nonteless: Good luck with this project!
     



    Let's see....That game won't be released for at least another three years (they say possibly 5), and those people work on that game in their spare time..  As for Citadel of Sorcery there are clearly people working on this game, and as they have said, it is their job.  They say they have investments and evrything as well.  How is this amateurish?

    __________________________________________________
    In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten

  • mike470mike470 General CorrespondentMember Posts: 2,396

     

    Originally posted by Netuddki


    I don't want to be a doomsayer, but if this is a professional funded project, it will end up like irth online.
    For me it looks, they have some guys, who can handle MAX a bit, who could manage the actual look of the game (which is horrible in every mean) and they hope to find some good artists if they can pay them.
    For the graphics I mean:
    1. If you have crappy graphics, you can't even test your engine capability what is possible when "the extraordinary graphics" are put in, so testing has no sense
    2. If you are professional and you want "extraordinary arts", you don't publish such screenshots and try to tell people it's just placeholder art
    3. If you are professional and you understand visual design, you try to make your placeholder graphics look good and fitting together in a whole from the start.
    4. which professional wants to do the art work twice? This art will be final, you will see... or it wont change much.
     
    For me the whole site and the screenshots look amateurish, no matter what they say.

     

     

    How do you know that the graphics won't be updated?  Are you a dev, are you an art designer for the team?  I don't think so, you have absolutely no proof, and you aare going off sheer estimation.

    As for the site, it will be updated later on in the development (as also stated in this thread)

    Before you terribly bash a game, try reading.

    __________________________________________________
    In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten

  • adeladel Member UncommonPosts: 24

    I have spent the last few hours reading a lot of Jatars posts and reading the information available on the CoS web sites and have to say that I am really  impressed.

    The questing systems has hints of what they were trying to do with Hero’s Journey by simtronics but way more complex at the same time. I love the idea of being able to have my personal story in a game as well as being part of a larger story at the same time. I like the idea that you can play solo or group up and that when you group your stories become intertwined while at the same time not being bound together in the future. Like many great epic fantasy novels there are characters that serve as strong and compelling parts of the main characters story and then go off to become a main character themselves using past exploits as a spring board to their own story.


    I know a lot of people are complaining about the graphics, but what I see are place holders so they can test the crux of their innovation  and that is their questing and world engines. It reminds me of being a kid i built soap box derby cars and I can tell you that as we built frames and rebuilt them the "skin" on the cars were not much more than card board because at that time it was not important that it look good but that it function properly. Once the under lying parts where in operation you would add skin making minor adjustment to the functional parts to make the 2 parts work well in tandem.


    All that to say, don't be so hard on this team of developers attempting something that has never been attempted before. I for one hope that it all works out because the ideas presented are things I always wished I could find in and MMORPG . Today’s games are (big) MMO (little) rpg's and with the vision of this team hopefully they and make a true MMORPG.

    Signing off leaving my 2 cents
  • draguleadragulea Member Posts: 249

    For the moment the game looks like an updated & enhanced version of Runescape. I've been a Runescape fanatic for years, but I won't be playing this; when R came alive, there were not many F2P games around; now the list is quite long, so there are better options - at least for me :)

  • sabutai22sabutai22 Member Posts: 262

    Originally posted by mike470


    As I was shifting down the game list, I realized that there was a new game on the list.  So far I found out it was a huge roleplaying game, and it's not a grind (so says their website).  Also, there are guild halls and stuff.  Great graphics as well.
    Not a grind sounds like something I would like to try out.  :)....Although it looks like it has a lot of work to do.
    What do you think about this game?

    if you read their FAQ they mention level, that translates to the standard MMO grind fest of repetition just to attain something. So im more than sure this game just like everyother cookie-cut level based MMO will have a "grind".

     

  • JatarJatar Member UncommonPosts: 348

    Originally posted by sabutai22


     
    Originally posted by mike470


    As I was shifting down the game list, I realized that there was a new game on the list.  So far I found out it was a huge roleplaying game, and it's not a grind (so says their website).  Also, there are guild halls and stuff.  Great graphics as well.
    Not a grind sounds like something I would like to try out.  :)....Although it looks like it has a lot of work to do.
    What do you think about this game?

     

    if you read their FAQ they mention level, that translates to the standard MMO grind fest of repetition just to attain something. So im more than sure this game just like everyother cookie-cut level based MMO will have a "grind".

     

    Since you seem to only have this one thing to say and keep posting it in various forums, it is answered for you here.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/post/1907053/thread/171434#1907053

  • mike470mike470 General CorrespondentMember Posts: 2,396

    Originally posted by dragulea


    For the moment the game looks like an updated & enhanced version of Runescape. I've been a Runescape fanatic for years, but I won't be playing this; when R came alive, there were not many F2P games around; now the list is quite long, so there are better options - at least for me :)

    I get a feeling you didn't read about this game whatsoever :)

    __________________________________________________
    In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten

  • albob35albob35 Member UncommonPosts: 19

    lol, I just looked at their website and the graphics do remind me of EQ1. I hope they work on that because I love the idea they have for the rest of the game .

  • mike470mike470 General CorrespondentMember Posts: 2,396
    Originally posted by albob35


    lol, I just looked at their website and the graphics do remind me of EQ1. I hope they work on that because I love the idea they have for the rest of the game .



    *As posted 30 times*  they are working on the website later in production.  As for graphics, they are just a placeholder and the devs are working more on them now.

    __________________________________________________
    In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten

  • aNgELfiRe_aNgELfiRe_ Member Posts: 37

    Well, it's just another fantasy MMO. It has nothing new really. Graphics and models are not exaclty professional. Let alone the grammar on the site :P

     The questing system they are talking about existed years ago ie. in KOTOR, or Baldurs series, or to go even further back in  Dark Sun, 15 years ago :) Just it was never put into an MMO yet, but no worries, Bioware is working for this system for the MMO title.

    Another thing is I can't let the thought go, that this game is just like Renessaince. And it looks preatty fishy, that they don't name any of the devs, when they are talking about shipped titles :o

     

    aF/SeRa

  • MaragoldMaragold Member Posts: 20

     

    Originally posted by aNgELfiRe_


    Well, it's just another fantasy MMO. It has nothing new really. Graphics and models are not exaclty professional. Let alone the grammar on the site :P
     The questing system they are talking about existed years ago ie. in KOTOR, or Baldurs series, or to go even further back in  Dark Sun, 15 years ago :) Just it was never put into an MMO yet, but no worries, Bioware is working for this system for the MMO title.
    Another thing is I can't let the thought go, that this game is just like Renessaince. And it looks preatty fishy, that they don't name any of the devs, when they are talking about shipped titles :o
     

    Wow, let's explore some of your comments.

     

       

    "The questing system they are talking about     existed years ago ie. in KOTOR, or Baldurs series, or to go even further back in  Dark Sun, 15 years ago :) Just it was never put into an MMO yet,"

     

    By your own comment this is new, as you state, it has NEVER been put into an MMO yet'.  I guess that's the WHOLE point.  However, even so you are incorrect.  KOTOR, Baldures and Dark Sun were linear RPGs.   Pretty good ones, yes, and I enjoyed playing them more than most MMOs.  BUT they were linear.  Everyone did the same thing.  The devs for CoS have clearly stated that this is a dynamic world where each person's story will be different, not a linear game like those you mentioned.

    As for personal details about themselves that they don't what to reveal to people like yourself, I certainly don't blame them.  I don't see you adding your real name to your posts.   This isn't 'fishy' its just smart.

  • mike470mike470 General CorrespondentMember Posts: 2,396

    Originally posted by Maragold


     
    Originally posted by aNgELfiRe_


    Well, it's just another fantasy MMO. It has nothing new really. Graphics and models are not exaclty professional. Let alone the grammar on the site :P
     The questing system they are talking about existed years ago ie. in KOTOR, or Baldurs series, or to go even further back in  Dark Sun, 15 years ago :) Just it was never put into an MMO yet, but no worries, Bioware is working for this system for the MMO title.
    Another thing is I can't let the thought go, that this game is just like Renessaince. And it looks preatty fishy, that they don't name any of the devs, when they are talking about shipped titles :o
     

    Wow, let's explore some of your comments.

     

       

    "The questing system they are talking about     existed years ago ie. in KOTOR, or Baldurs series, or to go even further back in  Dark Sun, 15 years ago :) Just it was never put into an MMO yet,"

     

    By your own comment this is new, as you state, it has NEVER been put into an MMO yet'.  I guess that's the WHOLE point.  However, even so you are incorrect.  KOTOR, Baldures and Dark Sun were linear RPGs.   Pretty good ones, yes, and I enjoyed playing them more than most MMOs.  BUT they were linear.  Everyone did the same thing.  The devs for CoS have clearly stated that this is a dynamic world where each person's story will be different, not a linear game like those you mentioned.

    As for personal details about themselves that they don't what to reveal to people like yourself, I certainly don't blame them.  I don't see you adding your real name to your posts.   This isn't 'fishy' its just smart.

    Agree entirely

    On a side note- the graphics are being worked on now.  These are just placeholder *As stated SO many times*

    __________________________________________________
    In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten

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