Compared to the other MMO's being sold from that store, it has been doing pretty well from what I can see. Did you take up my suggestion of looking at the other MMO's being sold, not just WoW? On all that I looked at, only LOTOR, WoW and the pre-order for AoC are higher ranked in both Current and Overall ranks. I'm more inclined to be more interested in the Current rank as that's an indication of how well something is selling at the moment.
Again, it's currently ranked 57 in games. Can you even name 56 other games?
Compared to the other MMO's being sold from that store, it has been doing pretty well from what I can see. Did you take up my suggestion of looking at the other MMO's being sold, not just WoW? On all that I looked at, only LOTOR, WoW and the pre-order for AoC are higher ranked in both Current and Overall ranks. I'm more inclined to be more interested in the Current rank as that's an indication of how well something is selling at the moment.
Again, it's currently ranked 57 in games. Can you even name 56 other games?
Heh, you're diverting the point Besides, that's rank's across ALL games, Consoles and PC's included. To answer your question, in their Action category under PC Games there are 234 games.
Compared to the other MMO's being sold from that store, it has been doing pretty well from what I can see. Did you take up my suggestion of looking at the other MMO's being sold, not just WoW? On all that I looked at, only LOTOR, WoW and the pre-order for AoC are higher ranked in both Current and Overall ranks. I'm more inclined to be more interested in the Current rank as that's an indication of how well something is selling at the moment.
Again, it's currently ranked 57 in games. Can you even name 56 other games?
Heh, you're diverting the point Besides, that's rank's across ALL games, Consoles and PC's included. To answer your question, in their Action category under PC Games there are 234 games.
Alright then, why don't you go ahead and list the other MMO's in that list and the number they are at?
Compared to the other MMO's being sold from that store, it has been doing pretty well from what I can see. Did you take up my suggestion of looking at the other MMO's being sold, not just WoW? On all that I looked at, only LOTOR, WoW and the pre-order for AoC are higher ranked in both Current and Overall ranks. I'm more inclined to be more interested in the Current rank as that's an indication of how well something is selling at the moment.
Again, it's currently ranked 57 in games. Can you even name 56 other games?
Heh, you're diverting the point Besides, that's rank's across ALL games, Consoles and PC's included. To answer your question, in their Action category under PC Games there are 234 games.
Alright then, why don't you go ahead and list the other MMO's in that list and the number they are at?
Star Wars Galaxies: The Complete Online Adventures
Obviously, I'm not going to go through and list every MMO in the list, I'll let you browse through and see the rest. There wasn't really any method in my picking, although I included WoW and LOTRO since I mentioned earlier that they were the two with higher sales ranks for MMO's.
I have to say though, you've made me feel rather geeky getting this deep into the discussion :P
What exactly is "current"? 2 weeks? 1 month? 3 months? 6 months?
Something like Pirates of the Burning Sea hasn't even been out a month yet it's in relatively the same area as the Complete box. How long has the Complete box been available?
Do you understand that there are far to many variables to consider before you use this information as proof that SWG is selling - particulariliy in comparison with other games?
And, like I mentioned earlier, if it is selling so successfully where are those people in game? The populations overall don't look as if they've changed much (except for a slight decrease) in the past 6 months. Have the new players bought the game then left abruptly? Have current subscriber bought that game to get the rewards? Is there a balance between new players and players leaving?
It just doesn't make sense when you look deeply at that source of information.
By nature, I'm going to guess "Current" is a recent time period. A week sounds like a good guess. The Complete pack has been on there since November 06 but that's not going to have much impact on the Current Sales rank. Assuming the Current condition is a week (or even 2 weeks), PoTBS has been listed there since the 11th so it would be compareable.
How are there too many variables to consider? Whatever length of time the Current rank covers, it's going to be consistant across all titles. I'm curious to what variables you tihnk need to be considered here.
Where are those people in game? Pretty sure I mentioned earlier in this thread I (and others too) have noticed more people around. Contray to popular belief, I don't work for SOE so I can't really give you much more then my own personal observations.
Please don't tell me you're going to start claiming some conspiracy theory about these sites and SOE working together to fudge the numbers...
By nature, I'm going to guess "Current" is a recent time period. A week sounds like a good guess. The Complete pack has been on there since November 06 but that's not going to have much impact on the Current Sales rank. Assuming the Current condition is a week (or even 2 weeks), PoTBS has been listed there since the 11th so it would be compareable. How are there too many variables to consider? Whatever length of time the Current rank covers, it's going to be consistant across all titles. I'm curious to what variables you tihnk need to be considered here. Where are those people in game? Pretty sure I mentioned earlier in this thread I (and others too) have noticed more people around. Contray to popular belief, I don't work for SOE so I can't really give you much more then my own personal observations. Please don't tell me you're going to start claiming some conspiracy theory about these sites and SOE working together to fudge the numbers...
Apparently everyone who says something good about SWG is considered a SOE employee, It's one of their weapons.
Account has been stolen, why would someone want to steal my account?
By nature, I'm going to guess "Current" is a recent time period. A week sounds like a good guess. The Complete pack has been on there since November 06 but that's not going to have much impact on the Current Sales rank. Assuming the Current condition is a week (or even 2 weeks), PoTBS has been listed there since the 11th so it would be compareable. How are there too many variables to consider? Whatever length of time the Current rank covers, it's going to be consistant across all titles. I'm curious to what variables you tihnk need to be considered here. Where are those people in game? Pretty sure I mentioned earlier in this thread I (and others too) have noticed more people around. Contray to popular belief, I don't work for SOE so I can't really give you much more then my own personal observations. Please don't tell me you're going to start claiming some conspiracy theory about these sites and SOE working together to fudge the numbers...
But then you'd have more time to sell your product period, thus you stand to sell more OVER time. It's 1 example of many variables. How about the availability of direct download? Seems EVE has more players then SWG currently does but it's not represented on that site.
Again, even if it were selling where are those people going?
*edit*
My mistake, I see that you're speculating that current means 1-2 weeks. Fair enough, but does that site list tie's numerically? For example if 2 games both sold 2 copies are they represented on that site as in the same ranking or are they in sequential numbering?
And also, is it not possible that SWG's ranking at 57 means that they may have only sold 1 or 2 copies in that time frame?
Regardless the server populations overall are not supporting your claim unless people are leaving just as fast as they're buying the game.
1 barc ........................buy a copy and get it instant travel thing .. buy a copy and get it holo bike ................... buy 10 copys and get it
etc. ...
there are no new players .... just the people who play this game allready and are willing to waste even more of their money for a new blinky
I was actually thinking of that possibility too.
After all people were willing to spend thousands of dollars on Ebayed Jedi. Why not buy 10 copies for some kind of in game trophy? I'm sure it's happened.
I think its hard to take numbers from D2D or some obscure (yes sorry its obscure to me) store in NZ. Its relevant in a way that you want to make it.
What would be "mass" relevant would be numbers from EBGames or most any very large retailer that serves many areas.
In the end why does it matter? If you like the game you don't need to defend it. People crapping on SWG and/or SOE doesn't make others not try things that interest them. If it does.. then what you say is lost anyway.
Yes SWG Complete Collection is rated high on D2D. They don't release overall numbers and most of the other games can be bought and downloaded directly from the developer.
Tabula Rasa and Even WoW.. as two examples. Potbs I bought at station store not D2D.
The only reason I ever went to D2D is because as a comcast customer I have a free account with Fileplanet...
Most new games I just pre-order online to be honest. Then fed-ex or UPS can deal with the head ache of shipping it.
SWG.. ya if I wanted a copy I'd buy it on D2D because its not in any store around here.
Well there is a collectors edition at our local Gamestop but then again they still have a copy of AC2 for sale (that game was shut down if you don't get the irony) and yes I've told them that every time i go in.. but its still for sale..
Compared to the other MMO's being sold from that store, it has been doing pretty well from what I can see. Did you take up my suggestion of looking at the other MMO's being sold, not just WoW? On all that I looked at, only LOTOR, WoW and the pre-order for AoC are higher ranked in both Current and Overall ranks. I'm more inclined to be more interested in the Current rank as that's an indication of how well something is selling at the moment.
Again, it's currently ranked 57 in games. Can you even name 56 other games?
Heh, you're diverting the point Besides, that's rank's across ALL games, Consoles and PC's included. To answer your question, in their Action category under PC Games there are 234 games.
Alright then, why don't you go ahead and list the other MMO's in that list and the number they are at?
Star Wars Galaxies: The Complete Online Adventures
Obviously, I'm not going to go through and list every MMO in the list, I'll let you browse through and see the rest. There wasn't really any method in my picking, although I included WoW and LOTRO since I mentioned earlier that they were the two with higher sales ranks for MMO's.
I have to say though, you've made me feel rather geeky getting this deep into the discussion :P
The only thing deep about it is the hole you dug for yourself. Lets have a look at those mmo's you're comparing SWG to shall we.
POTBS, has boxes in stores.
GuildWars, has boxes in stores.
Tabula Rasa, has boxes in stores.
WoW, has boxes in stores.
LotR:o, has boxes in stores.
Now, given that people can just wander into a store and buy boxed copies of all the other mmo's you like to draw a comparrison to on that list and SWG in only accessible via Direct2Drive after LA stopped boxed copies of SWG shipping months ago, you still think it's doing well compared to those games?
Can't counter an argument with a valid discussion point? Fishermage(aka Fisherprice) recommends you cut and paste: ad hominem
"You will come to the conclusion that the only people crazier than the managers who thought this a good idea are those who put up with it and pay for it." - Salvaje (who paid to play the NGE for 18 months) /golfclap
Compared to the other MMO's being sold from that store, it has been doing pretty well from what I can see. Did you take up my suggestion of looking at the other MMO's being sold, not just WoW? On all that I looked at, only LOTOR, WoW and the pre-order for AoC are higher ranked in both Current and Overall ranks. I'm more inclined to be more interested in the Current rank as that's an indication of how well something is selling at the moment.
Again, it's currently ranked 57 in games. Can you even name 56 other games?
Heh, you're diverting the point Besides, that's rank's across ALL games, Consoles and PC's included. To answer your question, in their Action category under PC Games there are 234 games.
Alright then, why don't you go ahead and list the other MMO's in that list and the number they are at?
Star Wars Galaxies: The Complete Online Adventures
Obviously, I'm not going to go through and list every MMO in the list, I'll let you browse through and see the rest. There wasn't really any method in my picking, although I included WoW and LOTRO since I mentioned earlier that they were the two with higher sales ranks for MMO's.
I have to say though, you've made me feel rather geeky getting this deep into the discussion :P
The only thing deep about it is the hole you dug for yourself. Lets have a look at those mmo's you're comparing SWG to shall we.
POTBS, has boxes in stores.
GuildWars, has boxes in stores.
Tabula Rasa, has boxes in stores.
WoW, has boxes in stores.
LotR:o, has boxes in stores.
Now, given that people can just wander into a store and buy boxed copies of all the other mmo's you like to draw a comparrison to on that list and SWG in only accessible via Direct2Drive after LA stopped boxed copies of SWG shipping months ago, you still think it's doing well compared to those games?
SWG is sold in stores in NZ as well, I saw copies in The Warehouse and EBGames today infact. POTBS isn't yet sold on the shelves here. Also, the site those listings came from is selling the retail box, not a digital download.
SWG is sold in stores in NZ as well, I saw copies in The Warehouse and EBGames today infact. POTBS isn't yet sold on the shelves here. Also, the site those listings came from is selling the retail box, not a digital download.
I cannot seem to find SWG in Best Buy, EBGames and other local retail outlets in my area. Although I cannot say that I've seen PotBS either.
This confirms the same situation I've been reading on here and the official forums where people are having a difficult time locating a retail store that has it.
Compared to the other MMO's being sold from that store, it has been doing pretty well from what I can see. Did you take up my suggestion of looking at the other MMO's being sold, not just WoW? On all that I looked at, only LOTOR, WoW and the pre-order for AoC are higher ranked in both Current and Overall ranks. I'm more inclined to be more interested in the Current rank as that's an indication of how well something is selling at the moment.
Again, it's currently ranked 57 in games. Can you even name 56 other games?
Heh, you're diverting the point Besides, that's rank's across ALL games, Consoles and PC's included. To answer your question, in their Action category under PC Games there are 234 games.
Alright then, why don't you go ahead and list the other MMO's in that list and the number they are at?
Star Wars Galaxies: The Complete Online Adventures
Obviously, I'm not going to go through and list every MMO in the list, I'll let you browse through and see the rest. There wasn't really any method in my picking, although I included WoW and LOTRO since I mentioned earlier that they were the two with higher sales ranks for MMO's.
I have to say though, you've made me feel rather geeky getting this deep into the discussion :P
The only thing deep about it is the hole you dug for yourself. Lets have a look at those mmo's you're comparing SWG to shall we.
POTBS, has boxes in stores.
GuildWars, has boxes in stores.
Tabula Rasa, has boxes in stores.
WoW, has boxes in stores.
LotR:o, has boxes in stores.
Now, given that people can just wander into a store and buy boxed copies of all the other mmo's you like to draw a comparrison to on that list and SWG in only accessible via Direct2Drive after LA stopped boxed copies of SWG shipping months ago, you still think it's doing well compared to those games?
SWG is sold in stores in NZ as well, I saw copies in The Warehouse and EBGames today infact. POTBS isn't yet sold on the shelves here. Also, the site those listings came from is selling the retail box, not a digital download.
Well I brought this up elsewhere and it was totally overlooked so maybe you'd like to respond in this thread.
If you've seen boxed copies on shop shelves it's because they've been sitting there unsold, probably for months. Retail boxed copies of the game stopped shipping (globally) well over 6 months ago. So if the figures from that store are correct (and for boxed copies), expect to see them out of business pretty soon because they're selling a whole lot of nothing.
Can't counter an argument with a valid discussion point? Fishermage(aka Fisherprice) recommends you cut and paste: ad hominem
"You will come to the conclusion that the only people crazier than the managers who thought this a good idea are those who put up with it and pay for it." - Salvaje (who paid to play the NGE for 18 months) /golfclap
If you look around you'll start to find more and more games are coming out on things like D2D, Steam and other 'download' systems. What it has alot to do with is money.
Getting those boxed copy's out the door is NOT cheap! Infact way back in the day Origin, Bullfrog and other's had to sell out to makers like EA due to the cost of getting the game out the door. Back then it was pricey to have the game come out on 3.5 Floppy Disks with all the books and the like. Granted costs when down due to Cd's, and also due to going from the big box size down to the DVD sized box. Still it's not cheap....
Also if you look at some places you'll see that the PC Gaming part of the store is slowly getting smaller. At the GameStop I go to here in Mesa AZ, the PC part of the store is a rack right next to the wall of Xbox 360 titles. Most of the time it's loaded up with whatever is 'new' or going to be a big seller, the boxed sets of older games that are around $20 bucks and have all the Expansions (Command and Conquer:The First Decade, BG 2 with it's Expansion) and lastly the 'Special Edition' copy's, namely the big box that you pay ten bucks more for and get an Artbook, DVD on the making of the game, Soundtrack, and maybe a Mousepad or a few other knick knacks... Also the free trial Cd's/DVD's of MMO's are on there sometimes as well.
Chances are your going to see more and more PC Games go down this road! It's not a bad sign or a sign of "The game is doing poor!" It's more due to it being much cheaper to put the game out on the net for download. And more due to more people being on high speed Internet.
And just to throw this out there as well, your going to see more of this happening with other things as well! Netflix is starting to put movies online to download. D2D has been doing that for about a year or two now. They are talking about doing it with Steam as well. Xbox Live Marketplace is making Microsoft a killing, and Microsoft is starting to put the old Xbox titles on there as well. Also the last Expansions for Elder Scrolls and Phantasy Star came out on Xbox Live as well. Hell Sony hasn't done bad selling Warhawk via PSN.
So we are getting to a point where chances are your going to see less PC Games coming out in the stores, and more of them coming out online.
Just something to throw out there.... If you look around you'll start to find more and more games are coming out on things like D2D, Steam and other 'download' systems. What it has alot to do with is money. Getting those boxed copy's out the door is NOT cheap! Infact way back in the day Origin, Bullfrog and other's had to sell out to makers like EA due to the cost of getting the game out the door. Back then it was pricey to have the game come out on 3.5 Floppy Disks with all the books and the like. Granted costs when down due to Cd's, and also due to going from the big box size down to the DVD sized box. Still it's not cheap.... Also if you look at some places you'll see that the PC Gaming part of the store is slowly getting smaller. At the GameStop I go to here in Mesa AZ, the PC part of the store is a rack right next to the wall of Xbox 360 titles. Most of the time it's loaded up with whatever is 'new' or going to be a big seller, the boxed sets of older games that are around $20 bucks and have all the Expansions (Command and Conquer:The First Decade, BG 2 with it's Expansion) and lastly the 'Special Edition' copy's, namely the big box that you pay ten bucks more for and get an Artbook, DVD on the making of the game, Soundtrack, and maybe a Mousepad or a few other knick knacks... Also the free trial Cd's/DVD's of MMO's are on there sometimes as well. Chances are your going to see more and more PC Games go down this road! It's not a bad sign or a sign of "The game is doing poor!" It's more due to it being much cheaper to put the game out on the net for download. And more due to more people being on high speed Internet. And just to throw this out there as well, your going to see more of this happening with other things as well! Netflix is starting to put movies online to download. D2D has been doing that for about a year or two now. They are talking about doing it with Steam as well. Xbox Live Marketplace is making Microsoft a killing, and Microsoft is starting to put the old Xbox titles on there as well. Also the last Expansions for Elder Scrolls and Phantasy Star came out on Xbox Live as well. Hell Sony hasn't done bad selling Warhawk via PSN. So we are getting to a point where chances are your going to see less PC Games coming out in the stores, and more of them coming out online.
QFE.
As internet speeds get faster, the gaming and movie industries are going to start suffering the same piracy issues that the music industry has been dealing with for years now. Downloading a game is generally (if it's done right) more conveniant then picking it up from a store and without a legal means people will turn to Torrent sites to get these. Just like with music, it's certainly not going to magically solve the piracy issue but as seems to be happening with music, it will deter a good number of them from going down that path.
Just something to throw out there.... If you look around you'll start to find more and more games are coming out on things like D2D, Steam and other 'download' systems. What it has alot to do with is money. Getting those boxed copy's out the door is NOT cheap! Infact way back in the day Origin, Bullfrog and other's had to sell out to makers like EA due to the cost of getting the game out the door. Back then it was pricey to have the game come out on 3.5 Floppy Disks with all the books and the like. Granted costs when down due to Cd's, and also due to going from the big box size down to the DVD sized box. Still it's not cheap.... Also if you look at some places you'll see that the PC Gaming part of the store is slowly getting smaller. At the GameStop I go to here in Mesa AZ, the PC part of the store is a rack right next to the wall of Xbox 360 titles. Most of the time it's loaded up with whatever is 'new' or going to be a big seller, the boxed sets of older games that are around $20 bucks and have all the Expansions (Command and Conquer:The First Decade, BG 2 with it's Expansion) and lastly the 'Special Edition' copy's, namely the big box that you pay ten bucks more for and get an Artbook, DVD on the making of the game, Soundtrack, and maybe a Mousepad or a few other knick knacks... Also the free trial Cd's/DVD's of MMO's are on there sometimes as well. Chances are your going to see more and more PC Games go down this road! It's not a bad sign or a sign of "The game is doing poor!" It's more due to it being much cheaper to put the game out on the net for download. And more due to more people being on high speed Internet. And just to throw this out there as well, your going to see more of this happening with other things as well! Netflix is starting to put movies online to download. D2D has been doing that for about a year or two now. They are talking about doing it with Steam as well. Xbox Live Marketplace is making Microsoft a killing, and Microsoft is starting to put the old Xbox titles on there as well. Also the last Expansions for Elder Scrolls and Phantasy Star came out on Xbox Live as well. Hell Sony hasn't done bad selling Warhawk via PSN. So we are getting to a point where chances are your going to see less PC Games coming out in the stores, and more of them coming out online.
QFE.
As internet speeds get faster, the gaming and movie industries are going to start suffering the same piracy issues that the music industry has been dealing with for years now. Downloading a game is generally (if it's done right) more conveniant then picking it up from a store and without a legal means people will turn to Torrent sites to get these. Just like with music, it's certainly not going to magically solve the piracy issue but as seems to be happening with music, it will deter a good number of them from going down that path.
Not at all, it's as easy if not easier to crack a download only game and remember that game files are increasing in size at a similar ratio at which internet speeds are increasing. SWG is what 4gb? Rainbow 6 Vegas weighs in at about 21gb from memory, Vanguard (in case you want an mmo comparrison) around 19gb, yep internet speeds are picking up but not enough to make download distribution a viable alternative to boxes on shelves for mass market sales, so as much as you'd like to make sense of LA's decision to can boxed copies of SWG there's no reason for it other than poor sales, now back to my previous point which you managed to dodge. Care to reply on the fact that you've got boxed copies of SWG in stores when it's been out of production for so long?
Can't counter an argument with a valid discussion point? Fishermage(aka Fisherprice) recommends you cut and paste: ad hominem
"You will come to the conclusion that the only people crazier than the managers who thought this a good idea are those who put up with it and pay for it." - Salvaje (who paid to play the NGE for 18 months) /golfclap
Just something to throw out there.... If you look around you'll start to find more and more games are coming out on things like D2D, Steam and other 'download' systems. What it has alot to do with is money. Getting those boxed copy's out the door is NOT cheap! Infact way back in the day Origin, Bullfrog and other's had to sell out to makers like EA due to the cost of getting the game out the door. Back then it was pricey to have the game come out on 3.5 Floppy Disks with all the books and the like. Granted costs when down due to Cd's, and also due to going from the big box size down to the DVD sized box. Still it's not cheap.... Also if you look at some places you'll see that the PC Gaming part of the store is slowly getting smaller. At the GameStop I go to here in Mesa AZ, the PC part of the store is a rack right next to the wall of Xbox 360 titles. Most of the time it's loaded up with whatever is 'new' or going to be a big seller, the boxed sets of older games that are around $20 bucks and have all the Expansions (Command and Conquer:The First Decade, BG 2 with it's Expansion) and lastly the 'Special Edition' copy's, namely the big box that you pay ten bucks more for and get an Artbook, DVD on the making of the game, Soundtrack, and maybe a Mousepad or a few other knick knacks... Also the free trial Cd's/DVD's of MMO's are on there sometimes as well. Chances are your going to see more and more PC Games go down this road! It's not a bad sign or a sign of "The game is doing poor!" It's more due to it being much cheaper to put the game out on the net for download. And more due to more people being on high speed Internet. And just to throw this out there as well, your going to see more of this happening with other things as well! Netflix is starting to put movies online to download. D2D has been doing that for about a year or two now. They are talking about doing it with Steam as well. Xbox Live Marketplace is making Microsoft a killing, and Microsoft is starting to put the old Xbox titles on there as well. Also the last Expansions for Elder Scrolls and Phantasy Star came out on Xbox Live as well. Hell Sony hasn't done bad selling Warhawk via PSN. So we are getting to a point where chances are your going to see less PC Games coming out in the stores, and more of them coming out online.
QFE.
As internet speeds get faster, the gaming and movie industries are going to start suffering the same piracy issues that the music industry has been dealing with for years now. Downloading a game is generally (if it's done right) more conveniant then picking it up from a store and without a legal means people will turn to Torrent sites to get these. Just like with music, it's certainly not going to magically solve the piracy issue but as seems to be happening with music, it will deter a good number of them from going down that path.
Not at all, it's as easy if not easier to crack a download only game and remember that game files are increasing in size at a similar ratio at which internet speeds are increasing. SWG is what 4gb? Rainbow 6 Vegas weighs in at about 21gb from memory, Vanguard (in case you want an mmo comparrison) around 19gb, yep internet speeds are picking up but not enough to make download distribution a viable alternative to boxes on shelves for mass market sales, so as much as you'd like to make sense of LA's decision to can boxed copies of SWG there's no reason for it other than poor sales, now back to my previous point which you managed to dodge. Care to reply on the fact that you've got boxed copies of SWG in stores when it's been out of production for so long?
Well yeah, it's an emerging thing. It's going to be suitable for some games and others it'll be completely impractical. For the most part, MMO's are pretty simple to sell as DD's since when you buy the box in the store you're really only buying the key and the conveniance factor, you don't need the disk to install or play the game - by nature they're already set up for DD's.
As for SWG being only DD, maybe LucasArts and SOE noticed that more people were purchasing the game through the DD rather then from retail stores. That doesn't mean sales were poor for the game overall, it doesn't really matter how people are getting into the game, just that the DD was selling better (and probably making more profit overall due to the lack of manufactoring costs). It could also have something to do with D2D having the latest Complete pack as an exclusive offer - part of that deal may have been that only D2D could sell the game (not even the SOE or LA stores sell the SWG pack).
Why are the boxes still showing in NZ stores. I think a pretty good guess is that they're left overstock - although no stores have yet to discount them and still feature in the "premier" section of the stores.
So "premium" or "premier" games sell for $19 out there then? I need to start importing my games from NZ.
Can't counter an argument with a valid discussion point? Fishermage(aka Fisherprice) recommends you cut and paste: ad hominem
"You will come to the conclusion that the only people crazier than the managers who thought this a good idea are those who put up with it and pay for it." - Salvaje (who paid to play the NGE for 18 months) /golfclap
Thought we were talking about retail stores. EBgames and The Warehouse both sell the Complete pack for NZ$80.
Well that explains why EBgames still have boxes on shelves, they're trying to sell at four times the price they probably should be, but still.... boxed copies available and in stock for $19 over 6 months after LA stopped shipping them is pretty funny. They could market the boxes as new gadgets, put them on display with the title "NEW Super dust gatherer!" lol
Can't counter an argument with a valid discussion point? Fishermage(aka Fisherprice) recommends you cut and paste: ad hominem
"You will come to the conclusion that the only people crazier than the managers who thought this a good idea are those who put up with it and pay for it." - Salvaje (who paid to play the NGE for 18 months) /golfclap
Just something to throw out there.... If you look around you'll start to find more and more games are coming out on things like D2D, Steam and other 'download' systems. What it has alot to do with is money. Getting those boxed copy's out the door is NOT cheap! Infact way back in the day Origin, Bullfrog and other's had to sell out to makers like EA due to the cost of getting the game out the door. Back then it was pricey to have the game come out on 3.5 Floppy Disks with all the books and the like. Granted costs when down due to Cd's, and also due to going from the big box size down to the DVD sized box. Still it's not cheap.... Also if you look at some places you'll see that the PC Gaming part of the store is slowly getting smaller. At the GameStop I go to here in Mesa AZ, the PC part of the store is a rack right next to the wall of Xbox 360 titles. Most of the time it's loaded up with whatever is 'new' or going to be a big seller, the boxed sets of older games that are around $20 bucks and have all the Expansions (Command and Conquer:The First Decade, BG 2 with it's Expansion) and lastly the 'Special Edition' copy's, namely the big box that you pay ten bucks more for and get an Artbook, DVD on the making of the game, Soundtrack, and maybe a Mousepad or a few other knick knacks... Also the free trial Cd's/DVD's of MMO's are on there sometimes as well. Chances are your going to see more and more PC Games go down this road! It's not a bad sign or a sign of "The game is doing poor!" It's more due to it being much cheaper to put the game out on the net for download. And more due to more people being on high speed Internet. And just to throw this out there as well, your going to see more of this happening with other things as well! Netflix is starting to put movies online to download. D2D has been doing that for about a year or two now. They are talking about doing it with Steam as well. Xbox Live Marketplace is making Microsoft a killing, and Microsoft is starting to put the old Xbox titles on there as well. Also the last Expansions for Elder Scrolls and Phantasy Star came out on Xbox Live as well. Hell Sony hasn't done bad selling Warhawk via PSN. So we are getting to a point where chances are your going to see less PC Games coming out in the stores, and more of them coming out online.
QFE.
As internet speeds get faster, the gaming and movie industries are going to start suffering the same piracy issues that the music industry has been dealing with for years now. Downloading a game is generally (if it's done right) more conveniant then picking it up from a store and without a legal means people will turn to Torrent sites to get these. Just like with music, it's certainly not going to magically solve the piracy issue but as seems to be happening with music, it will deter a good number of them from going down that path.
Not at all, it's as easy if not easier to crack a download only game and remember that game files are increasing in size at a similar ratio at which internet speeds are increasing. SWG is what 4gb? Rainbow 6 Vegas weighs in at about 21gb from memory, Vanguard (in case you want an mmo comparrison) around 19gb, yep internet speeds are picking up but not enough to make download distribution a viable alternative to boxes on shelves for mass market sales, so as much as you'd like to make sense of LA's decision to can boxed copies of SWG there's no reason for it other than poor sales, now back to my previous point which you managed to dodge. Care to reply on the fact that you've got boxed copies of SWG in stores when it's been out of production for so long?
Well yeah, it's an emerging thing. It's going to be suitable for some games and others it'll be completely impractical. For the most part, MMO's are pretty simple to sell as DD's since when you buy the box in the store you're really only buying the key and the conveniance factor, you don't need the disk to install or play the game - by nature they're already set up for DD's.
As for SWG being only DD, maybe LucasArts and SOE noticed that more people were purchasing the game through the DD rather then from retail stores. That doesn't mean sales were poor for the game overall, it doesn't really matter how people are getting into the game, just that the DD was selling better (and probably making more profit overall due to the lack of manufactoring costs). It could also have something to do with D2D having the latest Complete pack as an exclusive offer - part of that deal may have been that only D2D could sell the game (not even the SOE or LA stores sell the SWG pack).
Why are the boxes still showing in NZ stores. I think a pretty good guess is that they're left overstock - although no stores have yet to discount them and still feature in the "premier" section of the stores.
It is getting better, hell I wouldn't put it past more system's like Steam coming out in the next few years, chances are Microsoft is working on it as they want Games for Windows and Xbox Live working side by side. Sony I feel outside of gaming could be left behind as they are pumping more and more money into Blue-Ray. Still the systems of doing it are getting better, and hell Valve has made a killing off of Steam! I remember friends of mine saying Steam was going to crash and burn in 2005.
And I think your right Obraik on why your seeing SWG going DD only. I wouldn't put it past more MMO's going that way as well. Hell other games are coming out online only now like Battlefield Heroes.
Anyway I don't think SWG going DD only is a death sign of the game or anything like that. Hell I don't think any game going DD only means it's going to die. I feel by 2010 most if not all PC Gaming will be done via DD, with the only 'disk' copy's coming out being those Special Editions copy's. Not like I mind, the 3 main PC Games I got in the store last year (C&C3, Hellgate:London, World in Conflict) came with some cool stuff for that extra $10 bucks.
Comments
Again, it's currently ranked 57 in games. Can you even name 56 other games?
Again, it's currently ranked 57 in games. Can you even name 56 other games?
Heh, you're diverting the pointAgain, it's currently ranked 57 in games. Can you even name 56 other games?
Heh, you're diverting the pointAlright then, why don't you go ahead and list the other MMO's in that list and the number they are at?
Again, it's currently ranked 57 in games. Can you even name 56 other games?
Heh, you're diverting the pointAlright then, why don't you go ahead and list the other MMO's in that list and the number they are at?
Star Wars Galaxies: The Complete Online Adventures
Pirates of the Burning Sea:
Guild Wars: Eye of the North
Richard Garriott's Tabula Rasa
World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade
Lord of the Rings Online
Obviously, I'm not going to go through and list every MMO in the list, I'll let you browse through and see the rest. There wasn't really any method in my picking, although I included WoW and LOTRO since I mentioned earlier that they were the two with higher sales ranks for MMO's.
I have to say though, you've made me feel rather geeky getting this deep into the discussion :P
2 of those are expansions Obraik.
I don't play them so I don't know what's included in the box
SWG includes the base game with its expansions. Anyway:
World of Warcraft
GuildWars: Game of the year edition (only listing I could find that looked close to a base game pack)
Alright now we're talking....
What exactly is "current"? 2 weeks? 1 month? 3 months? 6 months?
Something like Pirates of the Burning Sea hasn't even been out a month yet it's in relatively the same area as the Complete box. How long has the Complete box been available?
Do you understand that there are far to many variables to consider before you use this information as proof that SWG is selling - particulariliy in comparison with other games?
And, like I mentioned earlier, if it is selling so successfully where are those people in game? The populations overall don't look as if they've changed much (except for a slight decrease) in the past 6 months. Have the new players bought the game then left abruptly? Have current subscriber bought that game to get the rewards? Is there a balance between new players and players leaving?
It just doesn't make sense when you look deeply at that source of information.
By nature, I'm going to guess "Current" is a recent time period. A week sounds like a good guess. The Complete pack has been on there since November 06 but that's not going to have much impact on the Current Sales rank. Assuming the Current condition is a week (or even 2 weeks), PoTBS has been listed there since the 11th so it would be compareable.
How are there too many variables to consider? Whatever length of time the Current rank covers, it's going to be consistant across all titles. I'm curious to what variables you tihnk need to be considered here.
Where are those people in game? Pretty sure I mentioned earlier in this thread I (and others too) have noticed more people around. Contray to popular belief, I don't work for SOE so I can't really give you much more then my own personal observations.
Please don't tell me you're going to start claiming some conspiracy theory about these sites and SOE working together to fudge the numbers...
Apparently everyone who says something good about SWG is considered a SOE employee, It's one of their weapons.
Account has been stolen, why would someone want to steal my account?
But then you'd have more time to sell your product period, thus you stand to sell more OVER time. It's 1 example of many variables. How about the availability of direct download? Seems EVE has more players then SWG currently does but it's not represented on that site.
Again, even if it were selling where are those people going?
*edit*
My mistake, I see that you're speculating that current means 1-2 weeks. Fair enough, but does that site list tie's numerically? For example if 2 games both sold 2 copies are they represented on that site as in the same ranking or are they in sequential numbering?
And also, is it not possible that SWG's ranking at 57 means that they may have only sold 1 or 2 copies in that time frame?
Regardless the server populations overall are not supporting your claim unless people are leaving just as fast as they're buying the game.
looks like you all forgot an aspect of swg
real money for virtual items business
1 barc ........................buy a copy and get it
instant travel thing .. buy a copy and get it
holo bike ................... buy 10 copys and get it
etc. ...
there are no new players .... just the people who play this game allready and are willing to waste even more of their money for a new blinky
After all people were willing to spend thousands of dollars on Ebayed Jedi. Why not buy 10 copies for some kind of in game trophy? I'm sure it's happened.
I think its hard to take numbers from D2D or some obscure (yes sorry its obscure to me) store in NZ. Its relevant in a way that you want to make it.
What would be "mass" relevant would be numbers from EBGames or most any very large retailer that serves many areas.
In the end why does it matter? If you like the game you don't need to defend it. People crapping on SWG and/or SOE doesn't make others not try things that interest them. If it does.. then what you say is lost anyway.
Yes SWG Complete Collection is rated high on D2D. They don't release overall numbers and most of the other games can be bought and downloaded directly from the developer.
Tabula Rasa and Even WoW.. as two examples. Potbs I bought at station store not D2D.
The only reason I ever went to D2D is because as a comcast customer I have a free account with Fileplanet...
Most new games I just pre-order online to be honest. Then fed-ex or UPS can deal with the head ache of shipping it.
SWG.. ya if I wanted a copy I'd buy it on D2D because its not in any store around here.
Well there is a collectors edition at our local Gamestop but then again they still have a copy of AC2 for sale (that game was shut down if you don't get the irony) and yes I've told them that every time i go in.. but its still for sale..
Again, it's currently ranked 57 in games. Can you even name 56 other games?
Heh, you're diverting the pointAlright then, why don't you go ahead and list the other MMO's in that list and the number they are at?
Star Wars Galaxies: The Complete Online Adventures
Pirates of the Burning Sea:
Guild Wars: Eye of the North
Richard Garriott's Tabula Rasa
World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade
Lord of the Rings Online
Obviously, I'm not going to go through and list every MMO in the list, I'll let you browse through and see the rest. There wasn't really any method in my picking, although I included WoW and LOTRO since I mentioned earlier that they were the two with higher sales ranks for MMO's.
I have to say though, you've made me feel rather geeky getting this deep into the discussion :P
The only thing deep about it is the hole you dug for yourself. Lets have a look at those mmo's you're comparing SWG to shall we.
POTBS, has boxes in stores.
GuildWars, has boxes in stores.
Tabula Rasa, has boxes in stores.
WoW, has boxes in stores.
LotR:o, has boxes in stores.
Now, given that people can just wander into a store and buy boxed copies of all the other mmo's you like to draw a comparrison to on that list and SWG in only accessible via Direct2Drive after LA stopped boxed copies of SWG shipping months ago, you still think it's doing well compared to those games?
Can't counter an argument with a valid discussion point? Fishermage(aka Fisherprice) recommends you cut and paste: ad hominem
"You will come to the conclusion that the only people crazier than the managers who thought this a good idea are those who put up with it and pay for it." - Salvaje (who paid to play the NGE for 18 months) /golfclap
Again, it's currently ranked 57 in games. Can you even name 56 other games?
Heh, you're diverting the pointAlright then, why don't you go ahead and list the other MMO's in that list and the number they are at?
Star Wars Galaxies: The Complete Online Adventures
Pirates of the Burning Sea:
Guild Wars: Eye of the North
Richard Garriott's Tabula Rasa
World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade
Lord of the Rings Online
Obviously, I'm not going to go through and list every MMO in the list, I'll let you browse through and see the rest. There wasn't really any method in my picking, although I included WoW and LOTRO since I mentioned earlier that they were the two with higher sales ranks for MMO's.
I have to say though, you've made me feel rather geeky getting this deep into the discussion :P
The only thing deep about it is the hole you dug for yourself. Lets have a look at those mmo's you're comparing SWG to shall we.
POTBS, has boxes in stores.
GuildWars, has boxes in stores.
Tabula Rasa, has boxes in stores.
WoW, has boxes in stores.
LotR:o, has boxes in stores.
Now, given that people can just wander into a store and buy boxed copies of all the other mmo's you like to draw a comparrison to on that list and SWG in only accessible via Direct2Drive after LA stopped boxed copies of SWG shipping months ago, you still think it's doing well compared to those games?
SWG is sold in stores in NZ as well, I saw copies in The Warehouse and EBGames today infact. POTBS isn't yet sold on the shelves here. Also, the site those listings came from is selling the retail box, not a digital download.
This confirms the same situation I've been reading on here and the official forums where people are having a difficult time locating a retail store that has it.
Again, it's currently ranked 57 in games. Can you even name 56 other games?
Heh, you're diverting the pointAlright then, why don't you go ahead and list the other MMO's in that list and the number they are at?
Star Wars Galaxies: The Complete Online Adventures
Pirates of the Burning Sea:
Guild Wars: Eye of the North
Richard Garriott's Tabula Rasa
World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade
Lord of the Rings Online
Obviously, I'm not going to go through and list every MMO in the list, I'll let you browse through and see the rest. There wasn't really any method in my picking, although I included WoW and LOTRO since I mentioned earlier that they were the two with higher sales ranks for MMO's.
I have to say though, you've made me feel rather geeky getting this deep into the discussion :P
The only thing deep about it is the hole you dug for yourself. Lets have a look at those mmo's you're comparing SWG to shall we.
POTBS, has boxes in stores.
GuildWars, has boxes in stores.
Tabula Rasa, has boxes in stores.
WoW, has boxes in stores.
LotR:o, has boxes in stores.
Now, given that people can just wander into a store and buy boxed copies of all the other mmo's you like to draw a comparrison to on that list and SWG in only accessible via Direct2Drive after LA stopped boxed copies of SWG shipping months ago, you still think it's doing well compared to those games?
SWG is sold in stores in NZ as well, I saw copies in The Warehouse and EBGames today infact. POTBS isn't yet sold on the shelves here. Also, the site those listings came from is selling the retail box, not a digital download.
Well I brought this up elsewhere and it was totally overlooked so maybe you'd like to respond in this thread.
If you've seen boxed copies on shop shelves it's because they've been sitting there unsold, probably for months. Retail boxed copies of the game stopped shipping (globally) well over 6 months ago. So if the figures from that store are correct (and for boxed copies), expect to see them out of business pretty soon because they're selling a whole lot of nothing.
Can't counter an argument with a valid discussion point? Fishermage(aka Fisherprice) recommends you cut and paste: ad hominem
"You will come to the conclusion that the only people crazier than the managers who thought this a good idea are those who put up with it and pay for it." - Salvaje (who paid to play the NGE for 18 months) /golfclap
Just something to throw out there....
If you look around you'll start to find more and more games are coming out on things like D2D, Steam and other 'download' systems. What it has alot to do with is money.
Getting those boxed copy's out the door is NOT cheap! Infact way back in the day Origin, Bullfrog and other's had to sell out to makers like EA due to the cost of getting the game out the door. Back then it was pricey to have the game come out on 3.5 Floppy Disks with all the books and the like. Granted costs when down due to Cd's, and also due to going from the big box size down to the DVD sized box. Still it's not cheap....
Also if you look at some places you'll see that the PC Gaming part of the store is slowly getting smaller. At the GameStop I go to here in Mesa AZ, the PC part of the store is a rack right next to the wall of Xbox 360 titles. Most of the time it's loaded up with whatever is 'new' or going to be a big seller, the boxed sets of older games that are around $20 bucks and have all the Expansions (Command and Conquer:The First Decade, BG 2 with it's Expansion) and lastly the 'Special Edition' copy's, namely the big box that you pay ten bucks more for and get an Artbook, DVD on the making of the game, Soundtrack, and maybe a Mousepad or a few other knick knacks... Also the free trial Cd's/DVD's of MMO's are on there sometimes as well.
Chances are your going to see more and more PC Games go down this road! It's not a bad sign or a sign of "The game is doing poor!" It's more due to it being much cheaper to put the game out on the net for download. And more due to more people being on high speed Internet.
And just to throw this out there as well, your going to see more of this happening with other things as well! Netflix is starting to put movies online to download. D2D has been doing that for about a year or two now. They are talking about doing it with Steam as well. Xbox Live Marketplace is making Microsoft a killing, and Microsoft is starting to put the old Xbox titles on there as well. Also the last Expansions for Elder Scrolls and Phantasy Star came out on Xbox Live as well. Hell Sony hasn't done bad selling Warhawk via PSN.
So we are getting to a point where chances are your going to see less PC Games coming out in the stores, and more of them coming out online.
As internet speeds get faster, the gaming and movie industries are going to start suffering the same piracy issues that the music industry has been dealing with for years now. Downloading a game is generally (if it's done right) more conveniant then picking it up from a store and without a legal means people will turn to Torrent sites to get these. Just like with music, it's certainly not going to magically solve the piracy issue but as seems to be happening with music, it will deter a good number of them from going down that path.
As internet speeds get faster, the gaming and movie industries are going to start suffering the same piracy issues that the music industry has been dealing with for years now. Downloading a game is generally (if it's done right) more conveniant then picking it up from a store and without a legal means people will turn to Torrent sites to get these. Just like with music, it's certainly not going to magically solve the piracy issue but as seems to be happening with music, it will deter a good number of them from going down that path.
Not at all, it's as easy if not easier to crack a download only game and remember that game files are increasing in size at a similar ratio at which internet speeds are increasing. SWG is what 4gb? Rainbow 6 Vegas weighs in at about 21gb from memory, Vanguard (in case you want an mmo comparrison) around 19gb, yep internet speeds are picking up but not enough to make download distribution a viable alternative to boxes on shelves for mass market sales, so as much as you'd like to make sense of LA's decision to can boxed copies of SWG there's no reason for it other than poor sales, now back to my previous point which you managed to dodge. Care to reply on the fact that you've got boxed copies of SWG in stores when it's been out of production for so long?
Can't counter an argument with a valid discussion point? Fishermage(aka Fisherprice) recommends you cut and paste: ad hominem
"You will come to the conclusion that the only people crazier than the managers who thought this a good idea are those who put up with it and pay for it." - Salvaje (who paid to play the NGE for 18 months) /golfclap
As internet speeds get faster, the gaming and movie industries are going to start suffering the same piracy issues that the music industry has been dealing with for years now. Downloading a game is generally (if it's done right) more conveniant then picking it up from a store and without a legal means people will turn to Torrent sites to get these. Just like with music, it's certainly not going to magically solve the piracy issue but as seems to be happening with music, it will deter a good number of them from going down that path.
Well yeah, it's an emerging thing. It's going to be suitable for some games and others it'll be completely impractical. For the most part, MMO's are pretty simple to sell as DD's since when you buy the box in the store you're really only buying the key and the conveniance factor, you don't need the disk to install or play the game - by nature they're already set up for DD's.Not at all, it's as easy if not easier to crack a download only game and remember that game files are increasing in size at a similar ratio at which internet speeds are increasing. SWG is what 4gb? Rainbow 6 Vegas weighs in at about 21gb from memory, Vanguard (in case you want an mmo comparrison) around 19gb, yep internet speeds are picking up but not enough to make download distribution a viable alternative to boxes on shelves for mass market sales, so as much as you'd like to make sense of LA's decision to can boxed copies of SWG there's no reason for it other than poor sales, now back to my previous point which you managed to dodge. Care to reply on the fact that you've got boxed copies of SWG in stores when it's been out of production for so long?
As for SWG being only DD, maybe LucasArts and SOE noticed that more people were purchasing the game through the DD rather then from retail stores. That doesn't mean sales were poor for the game overall, it doesn't really matter how people are getting into the game, just that the DD was selling better (and probably making more profit overall due to the lack of manufactoring costs). It could also have something to do with D2D having the latest Complete pack as an exclusive offer - part of that deal may have been that only D2D could sell the game (not even the SOE or LA stores sell the SWG pack).
Why are the boxes still showing in NZ stores. I think a pretty good guess is that they're left overstock - although no stores have yet to discount them and still feature in the "premier" section of the stores.
http://www.gpstore.co.nz/Games/1523033.html
http://www.ferrit.co.nz/6210854.html
So "premium" or "premier" games sell for $19 out there then? I need to start importing my games from NZ.
Can't counter an argument with a valid discussion point? Fishermage(aka Fisherprice) recommends you cut and paste: ad hominem
"You will come to the conclusion that the only people crazier than the managers who thought this a good idea are those who put up with it and pay for it." - Salvaje (who paid to play the NGE for 18 months) /golfclap
Thought we were talking about retail stores. EBgames and The Warehouse both sell the Complete pack for NZ$80.
Thought we were talking about retail stores. EBgames and The Warehouse both sell the Complete pack for NZ$80.
Well that explains why EBgames still have boxes on shelves, they're trying to sell at four times the price they probably should be, but still.... boxed copies available and in stock for $19 over 6 months after LA stopped shipping them is pretty funny. They could market the boxes as new gadgets, put them on display with the title "NEW Super dust gatherer!" lol
Can't counter an argument with a valid discussion point? Fishermage(aka Fisherprice) recommends you cut and paste: ad hominem
"You will come to the conclusion that the only people crazier than the managers who thought this a good idea are those who put up with it and pay for it." - Salvaje (who paid to play the NGE for 18 months) /golfclap
As internet speeds get faster, the gaming and movie industries are going to start suffering the same piracy issues that the music industry has been dealing with for years now. Downloading a game is generally (if it's done right) more conveniant then picking it up from a store and without a legal means people will turn to Torrent sites to get these. Just like with music, it's certainly not going to magically solve the piracy issue but as seems to be happening with music, it will deter a good number of them from going down that path.
Well yeah, it's an emerging thing. It's going to be suitable for some games and others it'll be completely impractical. For the most part, MMO's are pretty simple to sell as DD's since when you buy the box in the store you're really only buying the key and the conveniance factor, you don't need the disk to install or play the game - by nature they're already set up for DD's.Not at all, it's as easy if not easier to crack a download only game and remember that game files are increasing in size at a similar ratio at which internet speeds are increasing. SWG is what 4gb? Rainbow 6 Vegas weighs in at about 21gb from memory, Vanguard (in case you want an mmo comparrison) around 19gb, yep internet speeds are picking up but not enough to make download distribution a viable alternative to boxes on shelves for mass market sales, so as much as you'd like to make sense of LA's decision to can boxed copies of SWG there's no reason for it other than poor sales, now back to my previous point which you managed to dodge. Care to reply on the fact that you've got boxed copies of SWG in stores when it's been out of production for so long?
As for SWG being only DD, maybe LucasArts and SOE noticed that more people were purchasing the game through the DD rather then from retail stores. That doesn't mean sales were poor for the game overall, it doesn't really matter how people are getting into the game, just that the DD was selling better (and probably making more profit overall due to the lack of manufactoring costs). It could also have something to do with D2D having the latest Complete pack as an exclusive offer - part of that deal may have been that only D2D could sell the game (not even the SOE or LA stores sell the SWG pack).
Why are the boxes still showing in NZ stores. I think a pretty good guess is that they're left overstock - although no stores have yet to discount them and still feature in the "premier" section of the stores.
It is getting better, hell I wouldn't put it past more system's like Steam coming out in the next few years, chances are Microsoft is working on it as they want Games for Windows and Xbox Live working side by side. Sony I feel outside of gaming could be left behind as they are pumping more and more money into Blue-Ray. Still the systems of doing it are getting better, and hell Valve has made a killing off of Steam! I remember friends of mine saying Steam was going to crash and burn in 2005.And I think your right Obraik on why your seeing SWG going DD only. I wouldn't put it past more MMO's going that way as well. Hell other games are coming out online only now like Battlefield Heroes.
Anyway I don't think SWG going DD only is a death sign of the game or anything like that. Hell I don't think any game going DD only means it's going to die. I feel by 2010 most if not all PC Gaming will be done via DD, with the only 'disk' copy's coming out being those Special Editions copy's. Not like I mind, the 3 main PC Games I got in the store last year (C&C3, Hellgate:London, World in Conflict) came with some cool stuff for that extra $10 bucks.