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VG vs other MMO's
rokhazulu
Member Posts: 32
Hate to say it but I really enjoyed how WoW played as an MMO. The combat was pretty fluid and it just made it fun to play. I can't go back to WoW though because I basically have done everything ten fold and I'm looking for a better, newer experience.
Would I like VG? Does it have any PvP and does the combat flow well?
I want to try it out but no one seems to have a buddy key. (I've posted on several invite threads).
Comments
vg has been dead and failed game for very long time, shoudl try eq2 (its developed over years its worthwhil enow, i hate SOE but they did good job over time on eq2). besides that wait for war or age of conan
If you have enjoyed WoW, you might not like Vanguard. Compared to the full servers of WoW you may find the world of Vanguard rather empty (and a lot more prettier, by the way)
You may find it hard to find a game that will replace WoW like for like, which ever game you choose will be lacking in some area.
This is the sad truth, there are many people in your shoes, some find statisfaction in other games like EQ2, VG, LOTR, D&D, TR etc but WoW is still the daddy and is yet to be equalled, imho.
To answer your question: the problems with VG at the moment compared to other MMOs is the performance could be better and the population could be better. Beside that is a very beautiful (graphics) game with interesing classes.
Combat in VG is pretty good and I'd say even better then wow.
Game play in VG isn't hugely dissimilar to wow in that you can solo and do quests and level up.
When you start you are in one of a huge number of starting areas so you won't see a lot of people in the starting areas. But as you level up you will gravitate into a smaller number of common areas where you will see more players and it shouldn't be too hard to get groups. Also in GU4 when you hit like 10-20 you will encounter a riftstone. These riftstones will enable you to teleport to many area's or the world with similar level content so meeting up with people should be easy. Also most riftstones have a griffen vendor near that will rent you a griffen so you can fly to the desired location pretty quickly or you can of course ride your horse.
PvP isn't a strong point of VG. You could start on the PvP server which is wide open PvP but the population on this server is the lowest so again till you level up some you won't see many people. On the PvE servers there is a better pop and you can still duel with other players it just isn't wide open pvp. I think there is also an arena area somewhere you can fight in.
You can pick up VG pretty cheap.
Only word of caution is that you should have a reasonably modern system. 2gb ram, 256mb vid memory, 2ghz+ cpu.
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Ethion
Well while VG is a "good" game (yeah ok, it still does have many problems), but all in all a "good" game, I just don't see a person coming right from WoW enjoying this game.
These two games are pretty much on opposite ends of the MMO spectrum. But perhaps you might be seeking a completely different style of game. So I would say give it a try, unfortunately the numbnuts over at SOE are not offering any kind of trial. Which boggles my mind
How are they opposite ends of the spectrum? Personally other then graphics, artwork, and heavier PvP emphasis I'm not seeing them being hugely different. They have a lot of common elements. The combat system has a lot of similar elements, advancement is very quest oriented, death penalties are not very different, boe/bop similar, etc. There are many common elements... So I'm curious what spectrum are you looking at?
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Ethion
Besides both being MMO's there are vast differences between the two...
Buddy keys are hard to comeby since they only come 1 to a box and the person who buys the game can use the buddy code to get a free extra 10 days for themselves.
I can't comment on the PvP of VG with any authority, but I'm fairly sure it leaves much to be desires in comparison to WoW. VG just isn't a PvP game at all. No battlegrounds, objectives or things of that nature. Just open land fighting on the PvP server and duels.
The combat is similar. Lots of skills with cooldown. In VG you get chains and reactions, but they are pretty much fluff since things die fast anyhow. They might shine in raids though, I don't know yet. VG has a lot of little twists on combat from class to class. Like building jin to power abilities or getting blood bonds (if I have that term right) to make heals more powerful. It is little twists on things seen in WoW to be frank though.
The combat overall seems very slow mostly due to the bad animations of VG. It isn't bad, but it isn't great either.
Overall I can't say that VG is a game that will fill the void of WoW for many reasons. It is an ok game if you want to travel around and explore new pretty settings and peek at class/race combos. Lots of dungeons and sites to see, but it really it just mostly pointless hack/slash stuff. Fights down to a camp ala EQ and wait for named mobs to spawn for loot.
Besides both being MMO's there are vast differences between the two...
Of course their are differences but that wasn't what I was asking. I was asking how they are on opposite ends of the spectrum. While there are differences there are also lots of similarities. So I'm just interested in what your post was refering to? ie what aspect of the games does he feel are at opposite ends of the spectrum?? Graphics quality? VG being high, wow being low? Artwork quality? VG being low, wow being high? etc
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Ethion
Can you explain me what is pointless hack/slash stuff and how does differ farming swamp armor in VG from farming reputation for Scryers?
If you're coming from WoW you will enjoy VG actually. VG changed from HC to much easier system. If you compare some parts of these two games, than VG wins in most of the fields. The world is undoubtedly a win for VG so are classes/races + combat, adventuring, crafting mechanics. The itemization is equally strong in both games. Stability is obviously on WoW side. I would call VG a step further now from the basic level of MMO's - WoW.
REALITY CHECK
There is nothing to be embarrassed about in saying you liked WoW. Its a good game and its track record shows that.
A look at Vanguard well....its not a bad game. In fact, it could be a very good game. It contrast very well to WoW.
It has an excellent selection of original classes. Developement over time is a bit weaker then WoW IMHO as there isn't really a way to customize them at this point aside from some attribute tweaking.
Huge world, lots to see and do. It is akin to AC or L2 in world scope. Although areas are level specific, you are free to roam around as you like.
Races - a good variety of races when compared to WoW. Some a bit poorly done however.
Crafting - much more depth. Not everyone can max out a crafting skill so it has impact to work the skill up. I'm not sure how all this bind crap they added in is effecting things lately or how crafters in general are getting along. I would think it should be a worthwhile endevor.
Diplomacy - unigue in MMO's. Its an interesting little card game you play against NPC's. It reveils lore, opens quest, buffs and some other things. Has some rewards. It is its own unique profession. I thought it was pretty fun. Downside is you can not play it against other players.
Content - I thought it was a tad better then WoW. Unfortunately its mostly "kill 10 rats" type stuff but there are some good ones. If you enjoy the WoW style questing, this should set well with you.
PvP - no idea. Vanguard has a PvP server but its a FFA ruleset which is probably nothing more then a mugging server. I enjoy RvR type PvP, something they sort of had ina racial PvP server but they cut them out back when they consolidated servers. So basically I have no clue as it doesn't seem to be worth the aggrivation as there is nothing really to gain by doing it.
Downsides....
Runs iffy depending on your rig, has a ton of bugs, pops are small and very spread out, dev team "appears" to me anyway, to be unfocused, skittish and not getting updates out fast enough, you don't have much impact on anything, you basically grind for the sake of grinding. Although there are a ton of nice things to do like make boats / ships, build houses, build castles....none of it really has any impact on anything. Its all just eye candy or extra storage.
Community is in shambles. Very little in terms of updated online resources. Most people are to busy slamming the game to actually pay attention to it or contribute to the player community. Not that the player community is interested in anyone contributing to it, they are to busy slamming the game....
WoW's strength lies mainly with that it is designed for "achiever" type players and you ALWAYS have clear goals in WoW. It has a clear endgame with clear objectives. VG doesn't have that although they are trying to add it, but IMHO, it shouldn't go that route....VG was originally designed to be a virtual world not WoW raids MkII.
Virtual worlds need a strong dependence on crafters, who in turn depend on resources. Resources should have the virtue of being controlled by the players in some way. (direct / indirect conflict) Without that, a game will need to resort to something more basic things like grind and raids to keep the players entertained. The problem with pre-designed content is that its finite. Players burn through it almost as fast as the devs can make it leaving huge "downtime" gaps with the players basically milling around waiting for the next patch. Its ugly but you see it in most MMO's.
VG has all the features it needs to become a virtual world, it just needs a ruleset to wrap it all up.
Maybe things change at higher levels (I'm not there yet), but most of the quests are collect 10+ rat tails or some other item that typically takes 4-5 times the number of kills to get which for me gets really grindy after a while. Even the well written quests tend to drag on my nerves with the mechanics of collecting.
The dungeons while they are visually appealing seem to be populated with a scattering of NPCs that must be waded through to a series of "named mob" spawn points in the hopes something will eventually show up that has some treasure. Repeat clearing between those spots over and over.
VG just doesn't do a good job yet of dressing up the grind or giving purpose that removes the mindlessness. Undernearth it all there is a great system with wonderful foundation of a game, but it just hasn't come together yet, especially compared to the polish and attention to gameplay WoW offers.
Always a personally preference. Generally, I've noticed that folks who like WoW don't like Vanguard and those that like Vanguard don't like WoW or LotROs etc. Of course, there are some that do like both. I think this is indicative of the two games being quite different. So if you really enjoyed WoW, I'd give odds you wouldn't like VG as much.
Vanguard is a good game and I think it's becoming a great game with the improvements Sony has been able to make. The servers have been merged down to 4 I believe and speaking for Seradon the population is very good and on the rise with new players and a lot of returning players. Prior to the merge and when the game was struggling, you could find yourself the only person in a zone like Leth Nurae or New Targanor. Now those zones have 20 people in them in off hours and over 40 in peak hours. A well populated server makes a big difference.
Maybe things change at higher levels (I'm not there yet), but most of the quests are collect 10+ rat tails or some other item that typically takes 4-5 times the number of kills to get which for me gets really grindy after a while. Even the well written quests tend to drag on my nerves with the mechanics of collecting.
The dungeons while they are visually appealing seem to be populated with a scattering of NPCs that must be waded through to a series of "named mob" spawn points in the hopes something will eventually show up that has some treasure. Repeat clearing between those spots over and over.
VG just doesn't do a good job yet of dressing up the grind or giving purpose that removes the mindlessness. Undernearth it all there is a great system with wonderful foundation of a game, but it just hasn't come together yet, especially compared to the polish and attention to gameplay WoW offers.
I could agree with some of your points, but not with the first one. Swamp armor is far from the pinnacle of content in VG just like scryer or aldor reputation in WoW. It's just one option for you to get an item. I tried to give you the basid idea that the grind at cap level is not really worse than in WoW or Lotro or EQ2. Besides, I don't see anything wrong with grind. It gives me enough time to learn to play my character and to recognize my own effecient style (if the system allows it, and VG does)
REALITY CHECK
I think the combat in VG is better then WoW hands down.
The classes in general have been more fun to play for me.
Wish Darkfall would release.
I think Vanguard is better than WoW in all ways except for PVP. PVP is very lakcing and has no point to it other than killing someone for some coin or over territory. Don't get me wrong, I play on the pvp server and enjoy still, but it really lacks compared most other mmos with pvp.
Serious death penalties makes every close call an adrenaline rush, and every minor achievement a major victory. This alternative rule-set should be in all MMORPGs.
there is nothing remotely similar about the combat system whatsoever besides that fact that there are numbers 1-0 and - = to press, counters and reactions make combat in vanguard much more fun and appealing than wow. however, combat alone does not save this game.
Sorry pinnacle was a poor choice of words on my part. Swamp armor, as I know it, is a staple achievement that how many people opt out of? What would be the alternative? I'm not 100% familiar with the quests, but everyone I've ever talked to speaks of the swamp series as something you do not skip.
Most of the faction grinds in WoW can be easily skipped (or just bought out through the auction house) and there are plenty of other options available should you choose another route. Some are designed to grow just through natural gameplay.
Not that I am a fan of faction grind based quests anyhow, but they are a pretty standard tool for MMO devs these days and get the job done I guess.
Sorry pinnacle was a poor choice of words on my part. Swamp armor, as I know it, is a staple achievement that how many people opt out of? What would be the alternative? I'm not 100% familiar with the quests, but everyone I've ever talked to speaks of the swamp series as something you do not skip.
Most of the faction grinds in WoW can be easily skipped (or just bought out through the auction house) and there are plenty of other options available should you choose another route. Some are designed to grow just through natural gameplay.
Not that I am a fan of faction grind based quests anyhow, but they are a pretty standard tool for MMO devs these days and get the job done I guess.
Most of the parts for swamp armor can be bought. And then you can farm it for 4 hours in a group to finish the whole chain. It is everything but a must. Alternative to is is to do any dungeon in the level zone (that's like 7 dungeons) or to find a crafter that wil make you better items. I actually bought the parts I could and not grinded a single minute on my newest character. You can also go to APW raid dungeon. Plus there is some high level jewelry rewards from the southern Qalia zone - Harbor/Temple. The grind and amount of options is very samiliar to that in WoW or in any other game (LOTRO/EQ2)
REALITY CHECK