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Blizzard wins case against goldseller.

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Comments

  • OwynOwyn Member Posts: 337

    Originally posted by Torak


     
    Originally posted by Death1942


    don't mess with a 600 pound gorilla that rakes in millions a week and thus can get one of THE best lawyer teams in the world.
     
    i say let the gold farming pwning begin



    Did you read it?

     

    All the "600lbs gorilla" was able to do was make one company stop spamming in chat.

    While that is "super" in some minds, it does nothing, zero at all, to stop and prevent RMT.

    Hooray for us, its actually very disappointing news. Now we can all count getting bombarded with even more  /tells and spam mail.

    Did you read the post above that said their site is "Server Not Found" now?  This has all appearances of a total victory - it looks like they have simply dropped off the map.  Now, they may simply reform as a new company - in fact, I think that is likely.  But in the meantime, they are losing money daily.  And all the other RMT companies have now been given a clear sign that their own operations can likewise be disrupted if they get too out of hand.

    The bigger companies make a lot of money from the reputation and name recognition they have built up.  They really don't *want* to have to reform a new company under a new name.  They don't want to lose the money from the time it takes to do that, or from the sales lost as they build a new reputation.

    This is all about the benjamins.  ;)  Hit the gold farmers where it hurts -the wallet! - hard enough, and often enough, and you'll do some serious damage.

    Owyn
    Commander, Defenders of Order
    http://www.defendersoforder.com

  • TorakTorak Member Posts: 4,905

    Originally posted by Owyn


     
    Originally posted by Torak


     
    Originally posted by Death1942


    don't mess with a 600 pound gorilla that rakes in millions a week and thus can get one of THE best lawyer teams in the world.
     
    i say let the gold farming pwning begin



    Did you read it?

     

    All the "600lbs gorilla" was able to do was make one company stop spamming in chat.

    While that is "super" in some minds, it does nothing, zero at all, to stop and prevent RMT.

    Hooray for us, its actually very disappointing news. Now we can all count getting bombarded with even more  /tells and spam mail.

     

    Did you read the post above that said their site is "Server Not Found" now?  This has all appearances of a total victory - it looks like they have simply dropped off the map.  Now, they may simply reform as a new company - in fact, I think that is likely.  But in the meantime, they are losing money daily.  And all the other RMT companies have now been given a clear sign that their own operations can likewise be disrupted if they get too out of hand.

    The bigger companies make a lot of money from the reputation and name recognition they have built up.  They really don't *want* to have to reform a new company under a new name.  They don't want to lose the money from the time it takes to do that, or from the sales lost as they build a new reputation.

    This is all about the benjamins.  ;)  Hit the gold farmers where it hurts -the wallet! - hard enough, and often enough, and you'll do some serious damage.

    Yes, I understand the impact on peons.

    You are missing my point.

    All they won was a "chat channel" victory. They did not win on the basis of virtual property. It is a hollow victory.

     

  • hbosmanhbosman Member Posts: 107

    I don't want to spoil the fun, but this is the Internet. The law in one country doensn't automatic apply to others countries. While Blizzard has won, it has only won in that country.  I serious doubt Blizzard would have won here in the Netherlands.

  • saint4Godsaint4God Member Posts: 699

    Congrats to Bliz.  Another demonstration of leadership that takes action.

    Problem seems to be the people who are goldselling are using the trial accounts (all the ones I've met anyway).  You can demonstrate this by finding one of these ad-blasters in Goldshire or Stormwind, then try to hand them something: "Cannot trade with trial accounts".  It's a tough problem for Blizzard because it is the trial accounts that bring in new players.  I wish I had a solution to offer and would be interested in seeing what comes of it. 

  • GinkeqGinkeq Member Posts: 615

    Lol what a pointless law suit.  Anyone who plays WoW knows that gold sellers spam every main city and nothing is done about it.  Good job blizzard for a pointless law suit rather than banning people on the spot for spamming about gold selling

  • ZsasZZsasZ Member Posts: 208

    Originally posted by Ginkeq


    Lol what a pointless law suit.  Anyone who plays WoW knows that gold sellers spam every main city and nothing is done about it.  Good job blizzard for a pointless law suit rather than banning people on the spot for spamming about gold selling

    Um.... yeah, because everyone knows booting individual accounts is much more effective than LEGAL ACTION...

     

    Evil will always win, because Good is dumb.

  • NadiaNadia Member UncommonPosts: 11,798

    it paves the way for taking *future* legal action against goldsellers

     

    good job Blizzard

  • IcoGamesIcoGames Member Posts: 2,360

    A small victory, but a victory none-the-less. While I'm not as militant against Gold Sellers as I once was, I still applaud Blizzard for prosecuting the case.

    I think someone was looking for the other Blizzard case involving enforcement of their EULA: Link.

    By signing the TOUs and EULAs, Appellants expressly relinquished their rights to reverse engineer. Summary judgment on this issue was properly granted in favor of Blizzard and Vivendi.


    <Awaits annual debate on EULA's with my good friend Baff>

    Ico
    Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,324

    Hey, I've got a question. I've always wondered how gold spammers accomplish what they do.  I mean, what method do they use to log into the game and in a short amount of time manage to send out  mail messages or private tells to hundreds, if not thousands of players in a short period of time.   How do they extract our character names, directly from the game client itself?  Then, how do they send out emails/messages so quickly.  I know I can't do the same thing from my character in most games. (not talking about global chat channel spamming)

     

     

     

     

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • ianubisiianubisi Member Posts: 4,201


    Originally posted by Nadia
    it paves the way for taking *future* legal action against goldsellers

    You obviously don't understand what a settlement is.

  • OrcaOrca Member UncommonPosts: 629

    truly a sad story...

    No more casual gaming for me.

    Futilez - Mature MMORPG Community

    Correcting people since birth.

  • SunriderSunrider Member UncommonPosts: 527


    Originally posted by Torak
    Originally posted by Zorvan
    Originally posted by Owyn A powerful step forward. This is excellent news. A shame it was a settlement, and they didn't push for more than that, but still potent as a warning to other borderline-illegal RMT businesses that the foundation of their business is built on slippery sand.
    True, they settled. But not only did the Blizzard get the injunction plus whatever the undisclosed settlement amounted to, but this is the first case to have the EULA and ToS of a game validated in a court of law. So now all the buyers and sellers who come here saying "EULA don't mean squat" have just been effectively wtfpwned.image


    Making any use of the World of Warcraft® in-game communication or chat system to advertise any website, business, or commercial endeavor, including any business associated with In Game Dollar, LLC or www.peons4hire.com.
    Sending messages to the World of Warcraft® servers, the World of Warcraft® in-game communication or chat system or any other computer used by Blizzard in connection with the World of Warcraft® game, if such messages mention or advertise the website www.peons4hire.com, In Game Dollar LLC or any other commercial endeavor.
    Making any unauthorized use, or obtaining any unauthorized access to Blizzard’s computer systems or network.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Unfortunately,
    This didn't do anything at all to discourage a gold seller from doing anything but using an ingame chat system...maybe. How long did this case take?
    This does not hit on the key issue with is the legal status of virtual items.


    Thank you! Someone was thinking what i was. This isnt a big step forward... this is a step in the "you're using up our bandwidth and the players are losing the "fantasy" of being truly "immersed" (whatever that is) in our game!! (i guess being immersed is grinding gold/rep for hours on end). Not only that but i would rather see mindless spam in a game about power leveling and the "cheapest gold for this server" all the time instead of, and i quote from something i saw in a game not too long ago "You know how i know that you're gay? Cause you're AFK!"

    yeah. right people.

    People have bought gold and items prior to WoW and they will continue to buy gold/items after WoW.

    This simply means that there cant be open advertisement in game.

    "And after blizzard takes over the world, they are gonna gather a bunch of lemmings, sit on their fat asses near a cliff, and watch the little fuzzy bastards suicide dive into the ground below. . . . . all just for their own entertainment."

  • ZorvanZorvan Member CommonPosts: 8,912
    Originally posted by Sunrider


     

    Originally posted by Torak


    Originally posted by Zorvan


    Originally posted by Owyn
     
    A powerful step forward. This is excellent news. A shame it was a settlement, and they didn't push for more than that, but still potent as a warning to other borderline-illegal RMT businesses that the foundation of their business is built on slippery sand.





    True, they settled. But not only did the Blizzard get the injunction plus whatever the undisclosed settlement amounted to, but this is the first case to have the EULA and ToS of a game validated in a court of law. So now all the buyers and sellers who come here saying "EULA don't mean squat" have just been effectively wtfpwned.





    Making any use of the World of Warcraft® in-game communication or chat system to advertise any website, business, or commercial endeavor, including any business associated with In Game Dollar, LLC or www.peons4hire.com.

    Sending messages to the World of Warcraft® servers, the World of Warcraft® in-game communication or chat system or any other computer used by Blizzard in connection with the World of Warcraft® game, if such messages mention or advertise the website www.peons4hire.com, In Game Dollar LLC or any other commercial endeavor.

    Making any unauthorized use, or obtaining any unauthorized access to Blizzard’s computer systems or network.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Unfortunately,

    This didn't do anything at all to discourage a gold seller from doing anything but using an ingame chat system...maybe. How long did this case take?

    This does not hit on the key issue with is the legal status of virtual items.




     

    Thank you! Someone was thinking what i was. This isnt a big step forward... this is a step in the "you're using up our bandwidth and the players are losing the "fantasy" of being truly "immersed" (whatever that is) in our game!! (i guess being immersed is grinding gold/rep for hours on end). Not only that but i would rather see mindless spam in a game about power leveling and the "cheapest gold for this server" all the time instead of, and i quote from something i saw in a game not too long ago "You know how i know that you're gay? Cause you're AFK!"

    yeah. right people.

    People have bought gold and items prior to WoW and they will continue to buy gold/items after WoW.

    This simply means that there cant be open advertisement in game.

    Gee, and why do you think there are so many gold spammers? Because it's their main money draw as far as advertising. Making it illegal to spam the chat has effectively cut farmers money by at least 1/2 or more.

  • rikiliirikilii Member UncommonPosts: 1,084

    Originally posted by Zorvan

    Originally posted by Sunrider


     

    Originally posted by Torak


    Originally posted by Zorvan


    Originally posted by Owyn
     
    A powerful step forward. This is excellent news. A shame it was a settlement, and they didn't push for more than that, but still potent as a warning to other borderline-illegal RMT businesses that the foundation of their business is built on slippery sand.





    True, they settled. But not only did the Blizzard get the injunction plus whatever the undisclosed settlement amounted to, but this is the first case to have the EULA and ToS of a game validated in a court of law. So now all the buyers and sellers who come here saying "EULA don't mean squat" have just been effectively wtfpwned.





    Making any use of the World of Warcraft® in-game communication or chat system to advertise any website, business, or commercial endeavor, including any business associated with In Game Dollar, LLC or www.peons4hire.com.

    Sending messages to the World of Warcraft® servers, the World of Warcraft® in-game communication or chat system or any other computer used by Blizzard in connection with the World of Warcraft® game, if such messages mention or advertise the website www.peons4hire.com, In Game Dollar LLC or any other commercial endeavor.

    Making any unauthorized use, or obtaining any unauthorized access to Blizzard’s computer systems or network.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Unfortunately,

    This didn't do anything at all to discourage a gold seller from doing anything but using an ingame chat system...maybe. How long did this case take?

    This does not hit on the key issue with is the legal status of virtual items.




     

    Thank you! Someone was thinking what i was. This isnt a big step forward... this is a step in the "you're using up our bandwidth and the players are losing the "fantasy" of being truly "immersed" (whatever that is) in our game!! (i guess being immersed is grinding gold/rep for hours on end). Not only that but i would rather see mindless spam in a game about power leveling and the "cheapest gold for this server" all the time instead of, and i quote from something i saw in a game not too long ago "You know how i know that you're gay? Cause you're AFK!"

    yeah. right people.

    People have bought gold and items prior to WoW and they will continue to buy gold/items after WoW.

    This simply means that there cant be open advertisement in game.

    Gee, and why do you think there are so many gold spammers? Because it's their main money draw as far as advertising. Making it illegal to spam the chat has effectively cut farmers money by at least 1/2 or more.

    This settlement didn't make anything illegal for anyone other than Peons.

    It doesn't stop any of the other 16,000 gold selling companies from going about business as usual.

    It also doesn't say anything about whether Blizzard was likely to win on the merits.  We have no idea why Peons caved in.

    ____________________________________________
    im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good

  • WickershamWickersham Member UncommonPosts: 2,379

    Is this a 1st?  Did Blizzard just do something original that no other company has done?

    "The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"

  • LiddokunLiddokun Member UncommonPosts: 1,665

    After reading this thread I saw many people cheering Blizzard on as well as quite a few detractors. One thing is for sure, this started an unprecedent event of a major game developer suing a virtual gold farming business and actually winning. A win is a win it doesn't matter which technicality it uses in court. However what this suit does is to demonstrate that gold farming has to go underground in order to continue (and it will continue, kinda like the illegal drug trade which the government has been battling for decades). A brazen company like Peons 4 Hire who openly and aggressively advertise / spam their services is simply gonna get what's coming to them. Will this have a ripple effect on the gold / virtual item business as a whole? Probably not as much but what it does is it's gonna force the gold farmers/sellers to go underground. This lawsuit is in fact benefactory to the rest of the other virtual item selling business as it puts a major competitor out of business (at least from the WoW side of things). Will there be more lawsuits against virtual gold/item sellers? I am pretty sure this won't be the last of it.

  • Death1942Death1942 Member UncommonPosts: 2,587
    Originally posted by Torak


     
    Originally posted by Death1942


    don't mess with a 600 pound gorilla that rakes in millions a week and thus can get one of THE best lawyer teams in the world.
     
    i say let the gold farming pwning begin



    Did you read it?

     

    All the "600lbs gorilla" was able to do was make one company stop spamming in chat.

    While that is "super" in some minds, it does nothing, zero at all, to stop and prevent RMT.

    Hooray for us, its actually very disappointing news. Now we can all count getting bombarded with even more  /tells and spam mail.

    you fail to see the benefits of this.  its 1 less gold farming business to deal with.  a win is a win no matter how small.

    MMO wish list:

    -Changeable worlds
    -Solid non level based game
    -Sharks with lasers attached to their heads

  • Mark701Mark701 Member Posts: 108

    Good for Blizzard! It's about time someone kicked these spammers in the ass. More power to them.

  • Mark701Mark701 Member Posts: 108
    Originally posted by Death1942

    Originally posted by Torak


     
    Originally posted by Death1942


    don't mess with a 600 pound gorilla that rakes in millions a week and thus can get one of THE best lawyer teams in the world.
     
    i say let the gold farming pwning begin



    Did you read it?

     

    All the "600lbs gorilla" was able to do was make one company stop spamming in chat.

    While that is "super" in some minds, it does nothing, zero at all, to stop and prevent RMT.

    Hooray for us, its actually very disappointing news. Now we can all count getting bombarded with even more  /tells and spam mail.

    you fail to see the benefits of this.  its 1 less gold farming business to deal with.  a win is a win no matter how small.

    Agreed. And like the article said, it's a shot across the bow to other companies like this who, IMO,  are nothing but gaming parasites. It probably won't do anything to stop the selling outside of the game but it's a start. I'll never really understand why people spend real money for fake money anyway.  Where's the fun in buying your way to the top? If you don't want to do the work to earn the gold, it makes sense to conclude you don't like the game, so why bother playing?

  • rikiliirikilii Member UncommonPosts: 1,084

     

    Originally posted by Mark701

    Originally posted by Death1942

    Originally posted by Torak


     
    Originally posted by Death1942


    don't mess with a 600 pound gorilla that rakes in millions a week and thus can get one of THE best lawyer teams in the world.
     
    i say let the gold farming pwning begin



    Did you read it?

     

    All the "600lbs gorilla" was able to do was make one company stop spamming in chat.

    While that is "super" in some minds, it does nothing, zero at all, to stop and prevent RMT.

    Hooray for us, its actually very disappointing news. Now we can all count getting bombarded with even more  /tells and spam mail.

    you fail to see the benefits of this.  its 1 less gold farming business to deal with.  a win is a win no matter how small.

    Agreed. And like the article said, it's a shot across the bow to other companies like this who, IMO,  are nothing but gaming parasites. It probably won't do anything to stop the selling outside of the game but it's a start. I'll never really understand why people spend real money for fake money anyway.  Where's the fun in buying your way to the top? If you don't want to do the work to earn the gold, it makes sense to conclude you don't like the game, so why bother playing?

     

    I can think of a lot of reasons people would want to be powerleveled or buy gold that have nothing to do with not liking the game.  I'm not saying it's right (only the TOS or EULA can dictate that), but an example would be the player who levels up to 70 in WoW, but finds out he'd rather have a different class for end-game raiding and doesn't want to repeat all the low-level content.

    Or maybe he wants to do high-end raid content with his guild, but doesn't have the time or desire to do the grinding required in order to get the gold he needs to buy better gear and/or consumables or pay for repairs. 

    Part of the problem is the way the games are designed.  In WoW, for instance, raiding could be designed so that is more forgiving from a class-combo point of view, and so that it is a self-sustaining activity.  But it's not.  For every hour you spend raiding, you probably need another hour grinding to keep up, and if you are one healer short, you probably can't do the raid.

    ____________________________________________
    im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good

  • MaldusterMalduster Member Posts: 109

    GG blizzard,

     

    to the gold seller... you got pwned.

  • TenTailsTenTails Member Posts: 15

    screw gold sellers, they ruin games....I hope this helps stave off other potential farming co.'s

  • paulscottpaulscott Member Posts: 5,613

    yep blizzard, looks like a hero and gets money from it at the same time.

    not only do they get money from just the settlement but look at all this free publicity, I bet'cha a few people might go back/start to WoW when they wouldn't have in the first place.

     

    I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.

  • ZorvanZorvan Member CommonPosts: 8,912
    Originally posted by rikilii


     
    Originally posted by Zorvan

    Originally posted by Sunrider


     

    Originally posted by Torak


    Originally posted by Zorvan


    Originally posted by Owyn
     
    A powerful step forward. This is excellent news. A shame it was a settlement, and they didn't push for more than that, but still potent as a warning to other borderline-illegal RMT businesses that the foundation of their business is built on slippery sand.





    True, they settled. But not only did the Blizzard get the injunction plus whatever the undisclosed settlement amounted to, but this is the first case to have the EULA and ToS of a game validated in a court of law. So now all the buyers and sellers who come here saying "EULA don't mean squat" have just been effectively wtfpwned.





    Making any use of the World of Warcraft® in-game communication or chat system to advertise any website, business, or commercial endeavor, including any business associated with In Game Dollar, LLC or www.peons4hire.com.

    Sending messages to the World of Warcraft® servers, the World of Warcraft® in-game communication or chat system or any other computer used by Blizzard in connection with the World of Warcraft® game, if such messages mention or advertise the website www.peons4hire.com, In Game Dollar LLC or any other commercial endeavor.

    Making any unauthorized use, or obtaining any unauthorized access to Blizzard’s computer systems or network.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Unfortunately,

    This didn't do anything at all to discourage a gold seller from doing anything but using an ingame chat system...maybe. How long did this case take?

    This does not hit on the key issue with is the legal status of virtual items.




     

    Thank you! Someone was thinking what i was. This isnt a big step forward... this is a step in the "you're using up our bandwidth and the players are losing the "fantasy" of being truly "immersed" (whatever that is) in our game!! (i guess being immersed is grinding gold/rep for hours on end). Not only that but i would rather see mindless spam in a game about power leveling and the "cheapest gold for this server" all the time instead of, and i quote from something i saw in a game not too long ago "You know how i know that you're gay? Cause you're AFK!"

    yeah. right people.

    People have bought gold and items prior to WoW and they will continue to buy gold/items after WoW.

    This simply means that there cant be open advertisement in game.

    Gee, and why do you think there are so many gold spammers? Because it's their main money draw as far as advertising. Making it illegal to spam the chat has effectively cut farmers money by at least 1/2 or more.

     

    This settlement didn't make anything illegal for anyone other than Peons.

    It doesn't stop any of the other 16,000 gold selling companies from going about business as usual.

    It also doesn't say anything about whether Blizzard was likely to win on the merits.  We have no idea why Peons caved in.

    Wrong. it opens the door to do the same thing to every company which rears its head after peons. And for the record, if you can be successfully sued for it, then it's as close to illegal as it needs to be.

  • Pappy13Pappy13 Member Posts: 2,138

     

    Originally posted by Gishgeron


     
     
    Again, Peons4hire were VERY aggressive.  That Blizzard won against this group and not ANY OTHER ONE, shows clearly that it took a great deal of stupidity on the part of the farmer before they actually crossed the line to a point strong enough to prove to a court that this "video game" was actually being deeply affected financially.  This group did not just spam general chats....it spammed mailboxes, private tells, e-mail inboxes if it could.  They would harass players constantly, and for hours.  They also stages their "attacks" in large numbers as well.
    I wouldn't start hoping that this case will set a new precedent in courts for a EULA by any means.  There are an obscene amount of sections in those things that no judge would EVER honor in a court of law.  But it DOES open the door to prosecuting severe gold selling issues, and dealing with the bigger problems in this area.  You will see more of these types of things coming into court soon if the RMT do not act quickly to take themselves out of the spotlight.  There a several ways peons4hire could have dodged this bullet and still be selling gold.  Now other RMT groups will have to stick to the shadows twice as hard as they would have because this situation has come to pass.



    Your missing the big picture completely.  What it does is give Blizzard more bargaining power when it comes to the gold sellers.  Up till now the gold sellers all felt fairly safe because no one had been prosecuted successfully, but now that one has, it makes all the other gold sellers a bit nervous.  Now when Blizzard sends one of these gold sellers a cease and desist order, they are gonna have to take it a bit more seriously than they have in the past.  Blizzard is starting to remove some of the legal loopholes that the gold sellers have been protected by in the past.

     

    And that's why you start with the bottom feeders and work your way up.  Blizzard has been criticized in the past for not going after the big hitters, but you don't go after the big hitters to start with.  You go after the little guy, shut him down and then slowly expand your reach.  Each time you are successful, the odds of another successful attempt are increased and some more of the gold sellers start heading for cover.

    Like the report says, this is a shot accross the bow.  It's a warning.  And believe me, gold sellers will take notice and may start to heed the warning.

    image

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