MMOFPS's and hackers

lord0chaos

This is gonna be funny due to the only legal thing being a surface scan, it will be nigh impossible to catch someone that it isn't clearly visible, i.e. seeing through a player's eyes in which it would be near impossible for an MMO unless the creators want to spend a great amount of money in their admin team, and even still the more developed aim bots will be so hard to detect if they implement this.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that the MMOFPS's when they come out will fail, and always will due to complexity, and people spoiling the game.

I've hacked in TWL Team Warfare League, and CAL-M Cyber athelte League Main division, for cs:s and 1.6 pending on year for all of my professional gaming career, I don't hack stupidly and am not obvious, and I even hack in lans and 1 year for CPL. I've also botted for WoW among other games, and never got caught, and am botting right now, never detected once, at all using my hacks due to hiding my programs, which any tchnically skilled person can do and have never been caught, Think of how easy it will be in an MMO setting.

Ponico

I know this post will sound like i'm bragging but please hear me out in order to see my point of view

 

 

 

One major issue with MMOFPS or an FPS is that there’s 3 different crowds or maybe 4.

 

 

In a game like WOW, all you mostly need is a bit know knowledge on how to use your skills and then have the best gear. In an FPS it’s very different.

 

Keep in note that I am being general, you will always find a golden star somewhere.

 

Pub Players:

You have the pub players that consist of people just buying the game, logging in and playing online. Their teamwork is mediocre at best and their skills vary from extremely poor to fairly decent. Some of them will join a pub clan just play with the aid of ventrilo. At that point, their teamwork can go from poor to ok. A few hackers and glitchers but you won’t see as many as you may think.

 

 

Clan players:

The clan players are generaly more advance. They have a bit more teamwork and some tactics. Their general accuracy is better and usually understand the meaning of cover. Sadly, it’s also where you start seing a lot more exploiters, glitchers and hackers. Most of these clans are part of the low grade leagues and ladders.

 

 

Competitive players:

Advance clans with a lot of advance tactics that are made to completely overwhelm a team. Usually, these players have solid aim, solid teamwork and overall good tactics. 5 competitive clan mates can crush and humiliate anything under them. Now I’m talking about clans that are Cal-Invite levels, invite ladders and such. Hackers and such??? Believe it… you will see some but generaly at that level, it’s a bit easier to detect. When you’re entire team is simply amazing, you can quickly spot someone that is above game mechanics.

 

 

(not really counting)

Career Players:

Well people that simply live out of playing games. They exist and they are quite above all. It’s the world cup series at that point.

 

 

 

The thing is, some people are simply good by nature, others became good by practicing and others will simply suck at these games. I myself play a lot of FPS games and my clan (that has been running since 1998) is still going strong. We don’t compete anymoer (Cal-I/Cal-M) but we can easely destroy a pub server on games like battlefield or Enemie Terrirory. We don’t even need the aim, we simply have the 10 year old teamwork going on for us. We played some planetside and after we had learned the basics, not much could scratch us and we had BR 20 players with better guns then us coming at us.

 

So here’s the problem overall.

 

Mister top shaman of WOW level 200 that had all legendary gear will probably hit max level on an MMOFPS faster then most but will completely be humiliated by highly skilled players.

 

Just this… will make an MMOFPS less attractive to many players.

 

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying it’s impossible to become better then an advance player but a 10 year FPS veteran learned more then just shoot to kill.

 

 

As for you cheating and hacking on games. I’m not entirely sure what you’re trying to accomplish but you’re the type of player that we laught at and often dominate even with your hacks on. Your true aim without your bot must be as low as a pub players. I’m not challenging you since I really couldn’t give a damn about you but unless your hacks allow you to enable god mode, you’ll probably die under my gun. It’s a simple fact… I’ve seen pro team destroy an entire team of aimboters and walkk hackers…

 

 

lord0chaos

[quote]The thing is, some people are simply good by nature, others became good by practicing and others will simply suck at these games. I myself play a lot of FPS games and my clan (that has been running since 1998) is still going strong. We don’t compete anymoer (Cal-I/Cal-M) but we can easely destroy a pub server on games like battlefield or Enemie Terrirory. We don’t even need the aim, we simply have the 10 year old teamwork going on for us. We played some planetside and after we had learned the basics, not much could scratch us and we had BR 20 players with better guns then us coming at us.[/quote]

Yes, Skill and organization will generally win you out on a fight, and this stands in MMO's as well just however it is easir in an FPS due to more tactical elements and the fact that gear is generally irelavant in a fight, or can be achieved easily, how ever what is to say that this can't be recreated in an MMO from my personal experience it can, and pretty easy if you know what your doing, gear < skill most 'good' MMO's

[quote]

So here’s the problem overall.

 

Mister top shaman of WOW level 200 that had all legendary gear will probably hit max level on an MMOFPS faster then most but will completely be humiliated by highly skilled players.

 

Just this… will make an MMOFPS less attractive to many players.

 

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying it’s impossible to become better then an advance player but a 10 year FPS veteran learned more then just shoot to kill.[/quote]

 You're arguement is invalid, since differen't MMO's will have different scaling of gear and weapons however speaking on the just shooting to kill statement, it's obviously that an FPS is more than that put only when you're out of pub level gaming, where it get's into team play etc...

And the fact that you talk about MMO's not having skill, that's not entirely true at all, and in most games gear isn't the determining factor however skill is, if very little though, since games like WoW where it seems Arch classes are always present, i.e. Warrior and Rogue, and Mage and Warrior.

[quote] 

As for you cheating and hacking on games. I’m not entirely sure what you’re trying to accomplish but you’re the type of player that we laught at and often dominate even with your hacks on. Your true aim without your bot must be as low as a pub players. I’m not challenging you since I really couldn’t give a damn about you but unless your hacks allow you to enable god mode, you’ll probably die under my gun. It’s a simple fact… I’ve seen pro team destroy an entire team of aimboters and walkk hackers…[/quote]

 I'm going to disregard this for the fact that there is 'quality' of hacks and the fact that someone who doesn't make their own hack shouldn't  be using on in my perspective since the people who you are talking about are pubstars that like to show off, I'm not boasting just merley stating that you haven't caught me, and won't.

And I was just stating that it's hard enough to track someone hacking in a pub or even tournament scanning setting, think of the fact of that in an MMO setting where it's nearly impossible.

candygirl6

 

Originally posted by lord0chaos


[quote]The thing is, some people are simply good by nature, others became good by practicing and others will simply suck at these games. I myself play a lot of FPS games and my clan (that has been running since 1998) is still going strong. We don’t compete anymoer (Cal-I/Cal-M) but we can easely destroy a pub server on games like battlefield or Enemie Terrirory. We don’t even need the aim, we simply have the 10 year old teamwork going on for us. We played some planetside and after we had learned the basics, not much could scratch us and we had BR 20 players with better guns then us coming at us.[/quote]

Hah, me too. My friend made me play quake 3 and I used to suck at it and thought everyone cheated ^^ .

 

After a few month people accused me of cheating because I became so good ~, some people are really good, it's hard to tell if they cheat or not.

On the other hand, I tried battlefield ET too, but people reccomended me to cheat there because I suck so much at it .

Jackcolt

So because you make your own hacks, you think it's okay you have a bit more fun at the cost of several other players?

Oobie

lord0chaos

Speaking as another player that also was on TWL / CAL but under another game I must state that what you feel is an admirable quality (hacking/cheating) is what sucks about the human race.  I myself enjoyed the game that i played competitively.  It was a great social time and it was a chance for me to feel a personal best daily, especially if I was pubbing and playing a great game .  Then along comes word that the Clan that has pretty much been on top of the ladder in the 2 years I played had hacked in competiton from day one.  My clan was pretty much in 2nd or 3rd pretty regularly.  It was brought out to light by one of their long time players that got disgrunted because they cut him from a match 4 times in a row.  After that fiasco the exploit was leaked to the web.  Everyone had said exploit within 3 weeks and what good did that accomplish ?  It killed a resource of enjoyment I had . One of the many few that a working man can have.  All in the name of just winning a weekly online pissing conetst for bragging rites.  So don't take this as a personal attack but If you cheat/hack/exploit and can actually smile while your doing it you, and others like you are truly sad cases

Jimmy_Scythe

Cheating means admitting to yourself that you suck. Telling other people that you cheat lets others know that  you suck. It's part of the reason I don't cheat. If you're really good, nothing short of "God Mode" is going to keep you down. In fact most of the hacks I've encountered has been so blatant that I just left the game since it was obvious that the game was broken.

My most recent experience was in Wolf Team when I was killed by a player on the other side of the map, through several walls. Respawn, die, respawn, die, respawn die, and so on. I glanced up at the status messages and found that all my deaths were attributed to one player and the next time I died, they showed the players name in the general direction that he was in. I respawn, take two steps die. This happened on three different servers within the same day. At that point there's nothing to do but leave and uninstall the game.

To be honest, this really wasn't a problem until they introduced stat tracking. Before that, the only cheaters where hardcore griefers that got kicked and banned on a regular basis. Now I generally only play on unranked servers and with people that I already know. Cheaters and asshats have ruined online gaming and whenever a new online game gets released, the countdown to cheaters taking over the servers starts.

I wouldn't worry too much about aimbots though. It's only when you combine them with other hacks that they become a problem. Instant headshot + see through walls + shoot through walls + no reload + flying  = bitch combination and a good sign that the game is permanently broken. There are ways to get on top of this, I haven't seen to many cheaters in TF2 or BF 2142 yet, but as long as there's some kind of status attached to performance, gimps will download hacks to make up for their major suckage. Only griefers will cheat when there's nothing at stake.

 

Kurir

I suppose its not the PvP gaming style that gets my goat but the kind of personality that feels this sort of thing is acceptable. Griefing/Ganking is not acceptable, corpse camping or respawn point camping is not acceptable, cheating by exploiting little know game mechanic's or using third party hacks or mods is unacceptable which results in my usually not enjoying PvP.

I have had a ball in PvP settings where everyone abided by a code of ethics, they weren't written down or cast in stone but were universally accepted as the sporting way of conducting your activities. Sadly I haven't seen any game in the past five to ten years that players acted in sporting manner toward their fellow players. The last game that I feel had that sort of subscriber base was Jump Gate, I hold out great hopes that Jump Gate Evolution will be able to follow suit but I know its a long shot.

Oobie

Originally posted by Kurir


I suppose its not the PvP gaming style that gets my goat but the kind of personality that feels this sort of thing is acceptable. Griefing/Ganking is not acceptable, corpse camping or respawn point camping is not acceptable, cheating by exploiting little know game mechanic's or using third party hacks or mods is unacceptable which results in my usually not enjoying PvP.
I have had a ball in PvP settings where everyone abided by a code of ethics, they weren't written down or cast in stone but were universally accepted as the sporting way of conducting your activities. Sadly I haven't seen any game in the past five to ten years that players acted in sporting manner toward their fellow players. The last game that I feel had that sort of subscriber base was Jump Gate, I hold out great hopes that Jump Gate Evolution will be able to follow suit but I know its a long shot.

I agree.  That game had classy subs and i also hope that alot of the original players give it another try

lord0chaos

I feel that we are getting very off topic, and I'm not a pub star, and don't ruin the game for you, I only use my hacks in competitive play generally, anyone who does otherwise is a scrub.

Never let a hacker spoil the game for you and/or feed him, don't talk, just drop the server you are playing and go to another, or if it is an mmo, log out for a  while or otherwise they are  bullies, however we can cry to admins/leave more easily then anything.

daarco

Im a total FPS noob. So im still interested everytime i understand someone is using bots and stuff. Ans something i really enjoys in CoD4 is the "deathcam". You get to see the last 3 or 4 seconds from the other players veiw. So you quickly can see if it is a cheat or something.

Trashcantoy

Originally posted by lord0chaos


I feel that we are getting very off topic, and I'm not a pub star, and don't ruin the game for you, I only use my hacks in competitive play generally, anyone who does otherwise is a scrub.
Never let a hacker spoil the game for you and/or feed him, don't talk, just drop the server you are playing and go to another, or if it is an mmo, log out for a  while or otherwise they are  bullies, however we can cry to admins/leave more easily then anything.

hacking in lans, or hacking while ur a professional gamer is even more sad

but thats just my opinion, i dont like to play games automated i enjoy the game even more when i start at it and when i suck, then theres a challenge to play it more to get better

Jackcolt

Originally posted by lord0chaos


I feel that we are getting very off topic, and I'm not a pub star, and don't ruin the game for you, I only use my hacks in competitive play generally, anyone who does otherwise is a scrub.
Never let a hacker spoil the game for you and/or feed him, don't talk, just drop the server you are playing and go to another, or if it is an mmo, log out for a  while or otherwise they are  bullies, however we can cry to admins/leave more easily then anything.

Being a competitive gamer myself, players like you DOES ruin it for me. I've played games for a very long time, and I can usually spot on tell if somebody is wallhacking or perhaps using one of the other blatent cheats. But it's disheartning when you can't really prove the team you're playing against uses it, and you loose to a team, that otherwise is far less skilled than your team is.

I sometimes play in pub servers, and it's funny owning everyone including the asshat with wallhack. Hackers don't annoy me there, but when you're giving everything you have along with your teammates in a clan match, and you just can't win because the idiots at the opposing team is using hacks, it's ruining the whole fun, along with the competitive spirit.





You shouldn't assume that the only FPS players on MMORPG.com are casual.

Zorvan

Originally posted by lord0chaos

This is gonna be funny due to the only legal thing being a surface scan, it will be nigh impossible to catch someone that it isn't clearly visible, i.e. seeing through a player's eyes in which it would be near impossible for an MMO unless the creators want to spend a great amount of money in their admin team, and even still the more developed aim bots will be so hard to detect if they implement this.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that the MMOFPS's when they come out will fail, and always will due to complexity, and people spoiling the game.

I've hacked in TWL Team Warfare League, and CAL-M Cyber athelte League Main division, for cs:s and 1.6 pending on year for all of my professional gaming career, I don't hack stupidly and am not obvious, and I even hack in lans and 1 year for CPL. I've also botted for WoW among other games, and never got caught, and am botting right now, never detected once, at all using my hacks due to hiding my programs, which any tchnically skilled person can do and have never been caught, Think of how easy it will be in an MMO setting.

So basically you have no skill and can't compete without cheating? Bravo. Bet you've never played a singleplayer game without the cheat codes, either. If it's an mmo, log out for awhile? No. Take a fraps video of you using the cheat and send it to the devs for you to go bye-bye? Yes. Competitive play is not competitive when you lose to someone who has to cheat to win. The cheater is the real "scrub".

Edit: Oh, and you currently bot in WoW? Cool. Hope that isn't the e-mail address in your profile that you registered with Bliz with. And I'm sure your not dumb enough to have the same username. But just for fun, I sent both along with a copy of your post to Bliz. Guess I'm just too bored today.

Ponico

Well, I guess I don’t really have much more to say since other people agree. The thing that frustrates people like me and other league players is that we learned to be good and eventually, we managed to start doing the impossible. Nothing is more frustrating then having to deal with little exploiters, hackers and such. I don’t mind the tweaks since I myself use them for competive gaming but they are all within the rules of the league.

 

This is not off topic, you came here stating that you’re a little hacker and that you personaly enjoying ruinning the experience to other people.

 

I think you also missed my first post. I said that MMORPGS are not as player skill intensive then an FPS. Sure, you can be a better warrior then mister X over there but all he needs to do is learn the proper order of skills to click and then get better gear…

 

Sorry mate, I won’t really give you any credits of even some respect. I respect my fellow competitive players and the general crowd that just want to play for fun.

sadnebula

  I guess you think cheating is something new. LOL, there are even cheats in the army playing war games, trying to stay alive by taking the batteries outa their laser gear.   Of course when it turns real i rather think they  wished they had  learned  to play the game, cause there's no respawn

Nothing new here, back in the days when PvP was a group of players in a gym playing panzer blitz for the right to advance in the ladder, yup you guessed it, cheats. Course then players were face to face so if you were labeled a cheat you were pretty much washed up. I guess since being online hides you from others, honor is something that is easy to forget in todays gaming world.

Whats that old saying  my generation used,  winners never cheat and cheaters never win. lot of truth to it. Being a winner is a good feeling,  I'm a winner. i don't need to sing my victory songs to prove that to anyone. even my losses were wins cause i always felt I fought a good fight, win or loose, course I learned to game face to face and you shook hands after a hard fought victory .... or defeat.

i don't write this for you OP, I write this for others that may be on the fence, perhaps they will think of honor next time they feel the need to cheat to win.

I will give you a 7 for original trolling , or did you copy someone else's post

 

Vyeth

Poeple who cheat only cheat because they cannot win... Bottom line.. Can you imagine all the basement brains at work right now on Fury? That and anyother FPS style MMO will be decimated by cheaters (Look at Gunz).. Anyone that I see acting above the game mechanics (such as swimming in mid air firing an endless string of rockets) I just quit and consider it a compliment.. They are pretty much saying "Now I can FINALY kill someone!"

 

Ive never heard of anyone cheating because "they were so good, they had to"

Ponico

kotaku.com/gaming/clips/clips-lan-cheater-gets-thrown-on-ass-computer-destroyed-185022.php