Only prevent someone from selling what he purchases. You buy, you keep.
Quite simple. Quite efficient. Speculation is the enemy here, not trade itself. As speculators are leeching, hurting an healthy system, and they don't care if the system is ill or even died, they would still do that.
1 flag, the item was purchase, can't be sold again. Solves most problems right away.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Could someone please enlighten me as to why speculation is bad? Maybe I do not understand the meaning. Speculation is the buying of items at a low price and selling it for a higher price. Someone buys up every item of a kind under a specific value and sells them for another higher value.
If this is correct then whats wrong? As a PvP player from Eve online I have to say: This is totally ok. PvP can be both conventional (combat) or economic (trade wars) fighting. I like PvP so I do not mind speculation. It is actually a good idea for those with a lot of time and dedication. With work they can gain wealth via the trading system which shows their success in this avenue of competition. After all its an MMO and MMO's can be played with a competitive playstyle.
Anyway: about the gold trading stuff: Just leave it alone. 1. Noone will ever use any idea posted on these boards, 2. trading time for money will never get stopped and 3. all these mechanisms rather hurt the normal player than anyone else. So please let this thread die.
--- Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Btw, the ops idea has quite a few problems: It would completely stop any sort of "unfair" trading. How would I give my twinks items or money? How do I give a friend some money? How do guilds collect resources with the help of several members? The next problem would be that items can never have a fixed value. Every player perceives the price of an item differently. Some are willing to pay more, others will only pay so much. Removing gold from an MMO is like going back into time 5000 years ago to when currency didn't exist. Its just too unpractical. The crusade against gold trading will hurt the casual player way more than the gold trader.
I can hopefully answer/give my opinion to all of your queries.
I don't mind the idea of not giving your alts anything.I find it a dumb setup anyhow if you can start an alt and not have to work for anything,that removes the whole game design.As far as just using an alt to store things,that is merely a flaw in game design that doesn't allow enough storage space,or perhaps they actually did design it that way and didn't want peeps forming alts to have unlimited storage.
The "NEVER have a fixed value" i think you missed this one ,as there would be a fixed value set by the game as to what would be considered a fair trade.How much a player percieves something to be worth won't matter as it is the game DEVS that know best what is a right value.It is quite possible over time for a set value to be proven wrong[have seen this in EQ2]no biggie they go in and change it.
You do not need to remove gold.I think you missed this again as the setup is to have a FAIR trade system,with set values.My idea was that you could remove gold and just use the barter system,but even then you could still have gold but only tradeable through NPC's.As far as trading gold to your friends,well again you are defeating the purpose and way the game was designed.That is NO different than RMT activity.Just because you would feel you are being a nice person and helping someone, that is still breakign the system .Best way i could make an analogy is to say you wanted to give your friend some stolen money?He didn't steal it and he was real poor so you just wanted to help him out.It is still against the law or in game sense breaking the system.Your friend and YOU SHOULD be able to see that they should have to earn and play the game the way it WAS designed,no excuses as excuses are what i already see when peeps argue why RMT is good.They are being selfish an cannot see past there own nose why it hurts other players in a game.
Here is the biggie.I know or presume you are talking about WOW or similiar game when mentioning the gathering of resources for your guiild?are you referring to guild bank?I for one do NOT agree with a guild bank as it leaves an opening for bad things to happen.Having players fill up a guild bank and leave one player in charge of all there goods is just wrong.Anyhow so be it,if that is part of the game setup then they wanted it that way,nothing i can argue about that.That wouldn't change anything from the OP's idea as long as players MUST be in the guild and ONLY trade through the guild window/bank.The player in charge can't handle the trade but can allow who does.
It wouldn't be too long down the road before your members start asking who is this guy and/or figure out he is RMT and quit your guild or report you,so it really wouldn't hurt that part of the game then.A game should also have guilds keep a full report as to who was hired and released from the guild,so that the info is ALWAYS there.Basically it is as simple as a game showing some insight and policing there game properly.You could always find some loophole,as does happen,but it can always be addressed.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I think we both have a different opinion to what a MMO should be. I get the feeling that for you a MMO is a game where everyone plays alone/solo although everyone is in the same world and sees each other running around doing stuff. I am imagining a single player game set in an MMO. Everyone levels by himself, gets items by himself and does quests by himself. Interaction between players should be controlled strictly and not allow unbalance. Grouping would be a means for everyone to do one quest together, xp and items are shared. Trading is fair and does not allow unbalance. Trading is like me losing an item of value x (cannot wear the item) in my own solo game but gaining a different item of value x which I can wear.
I have a different opinion of what an MMO should be. For one: I do not like control and I am a PvPer. I look at a game as a way to play with friends against opponents, like a big capture the flag or a chess game. Why? Because after a while soloing has lost its appeal. It gets boring after you have played 3234 Rpgs vs scripted monsters. I have fun by overcoming obstacles which in todays scripted MMO world means playing against fellow humans. The mechanics you describe is somehow not what I want.
For example when you say "Best way i could make an analogy is to say you wanted to give your friend some stolen money?He didn't steal it and he was real poor so you just wanted to help him out.It is still against the law or in game sense breaking the system." I say that I WANT to give him that advantage. As a friend or member in my guild I should do everything in my power to make him stronger so that my guild prevails against the other guilds.
"How much a player percieves something to be worth won't matter as it is the game DEVS that know best what is a right value.It is quite possible over time for a set value to be proven wrong[have seen this in EQ2]no biggie they go in and change it." Imagine someone finds a rare item and comes to town to sell it. Because of the fixed price an auction is not possible. My guild has 2342342 gold in the stash and needs the item for maintank / pvp players and simply says: We will pay double the market price. Again not possible.
I agree with you on the storage thing though. Its bad game design if I actually need mules. On the point with the guild bank I also agree that a register and various control mechanisms are needed (corp thieving is still hard to stop because of inet anonymity).
Overall the things you described are mechanisms that would turn the MMO into a game where everyone plays with your and only your playstyle. You make other playstyles and possibilities impossible. Your system may stop gold farming but at the same time it will make sure that 75% of the players (like me) will leave the game.
--- Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Well i give you this dude ,i like your re -buttle because it was sort of constructive not totally selfish thinking,but...your analogy of what i want is FAR off,about as far as you can get.My fave game is and was FFXI,as we all know it is pretty much the ONLY game designed around team play.All other games are quite soloable.My second fave game was EQ2 again quite a bit closer to team play than a regualr game.
If you really want to know what i want.It is a game that is free from cheating and fair to every paying customer be it day 1 or if hes a noob joining 100 days later.
As far as your RARE idea.If you found a drop and as you put it you like to party as a group,well then let whoever needs the rare drop take it and use it.Why on earth would you think to ONLY have or want to sell it?There is also other things a game design can do like de synth it wich again is a feature FFXI has in it's game.I mean if you started to find several,they wouldn't be so rare anymore,so de synthing them for some rare useable items would be nice.Also if it was a super rare item in game i am quite sure the DEVS would deem it so as far as worth goes.
There is also the fact that your want ,would totally alienate noobs from joining the game at a later time because the economy would be broken.That is exactly the kind of thing i don't want to see in a game.If RMT mechanics are not put into place ,albeit they may sacrifice certain parts of a game ,but the economy will fail.Items will not have a WORTH at all,the worth of an item in a BROKEN economy becomes what ever the gold buyers/sellers are willing to pay in real life cash.That not only drives the price sky high above what the game was designed for,but also brings in RMT farming bots and alienates all the legit playing players from partaking in that type of market.
Anyhow this has become about me trying to explain broken game economies to wich i don't like to explain everytime RMT comes up.It is a blackmark on gaming and does alienate paying customers.ALl players should have equal rights to a game,why? because there money is just as valueable as the next guys.This is what i want in a game,even when comes to PVP i want a system that is fair to all,not just a setup that favours people who can put in more time.Even in real life time does not always equal reward.
Now don't get me wrong on this whole issue as i would totally love an open ended economy with no rules,if the game could police itself properly.The problem is that they can't ,that is a fact,in every single game i have played.We don't need to see players selling accounts on ebay or selling game items for real life cash.It is suppose to be a game not a private business for players.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Comments
Again, preventing trade is too much IMO.
Only prevent someone from selling what he purchases. You buy, you keep.
Quite simple. Quite efficient. Speculation is the enemy here, not trade itself. As speculators are leeching, hurting an healthy system, and they don't care if the system is ill or even died, they would still do that.
1 flag, the item was purchase, can't be sold again. Solves most problems right away.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Could someone please enlighten me as to why speculation is bad? Maybe I do not understand the meaning. Speculation is the buying of items at a low price and selling it for a higher price. Someone buys up every item of a kind under a specific value and sells them for another higher value.
If this is correct then whats wrong? As a PvP player from Eve online I have to say: This is totally ok. PvP can be both conventional (combat) or economic (trade wars) fighting. I like PvP so I do not mind speculation. It is actually a good idea for those with a lot of time and dedication. With work they can gain wealth via the trading system which shows their success in this avenue of competition. After all its an MMO and MMO's can be played with a competitive playstyle.
Anyway: about the gold trading stuff: Just leave it alone. 1. Noone will ever use any idea posted on these boards, 2. trading time for money will never get stopped and 3. all these mechanisms rather hurt the normal player than anyone else. So please let this thread die.
---
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
I don't mind the idea of not giving your alts anything.I find it a dumb setup anyhow if you can start an alt and not have to work for anything,that removes the whole game design.As far as just using an alt to store things,that is merely a flaw in game design that doesn't allow enough storage space,or perhaps they actually did design it that way and didn't want peeps forming alts to have unlimited storage.
The "NEVER have a fixed value" i think you missed this one ,as there would be a fixed value set by the game as to what would be considered a fair trade.How much a player percieves something to be worth won't matter as it is the game DEVS that know best what is a right value.It is quite possible over time for a set value to be proven wrong[have seen this in EQ2]no biggie they go in and change it.
You do not need to remove gold.I think you missed this again as the setup is to have a FAIR trade system,with set values.My idea was that you could remove gold and just use the barter system,but even then you could still have gold but only tradeable through NPC's.As far as trading gold to your friends,well again you are defeating the purpose and way the game was designed.That is NO different than RMT activity.Just because you would feel you are being a nice person and helping someone, that is still breakign the system .Best way i could make an analogy is to say you wanted to give your friend some stolen money?He didn't steal it and he was real poor so you just wanted to help him out.It is still against the law or in game sense breaking the system.Your friend and YOU SHOULD be able to see that they should have to earn and play the game the way it WAS designed,no excuses as excuses are what i already see when peeps argue why RMT is good.They are being selfish an cannot see past there own nose why it hurts other players in a game.
Here is the biggie.I know or presume you are talking about WOW or similiar game when mentioning the gathering of resources for your guiild?are you referring to guild bank?I for one do NOT agree with a guild bank as it leaves an opening for bad things to happen.Having players fill up a guild bank and leave one player in charge of all there goods is just wrong.Anyhow so be it,if that is part of the game setup then they wanted it that way,nothing i can argue about that.That wouldn't change anything from the OP's idea as long as players MUST be in the guild and ONLY trade through the guild window/bank.The player in charge can't handle the trade but can allow who does.
It wouldn't be too long down the road before your members start asking who is this guy and/or figure out he is RMT and quit your guild or report you,so it really wouldn't hurt that part of the game then.A game should also have guilds keep a full report as to who was hired and released from the guild,so that the info is ALWAYS there.Basically it is as simple as a game showing some insight and policing there game properly.You could always find some loophole,as does happen,but it can always be addressed.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I think we both have a different opinion to what a MMO should be. I get the feeling that for you a MMO is a game where everyone plays alone/solo although everyone is in the same world and sees each other running around doing stuff. I am imagining a single player game set in an MMO. Everyone levels by himself, gets items by himself and does quests by himself. Interaction between players should be controlled strictly and not allow unbalance. Grouping would be a means for everyone to do one quest together, xp and items are shared. Trading is fair and does not allow unbalance. Trading is like me losing an item of value x (cannot wear the item) in my own solo game but gaining a different item of value x which I can wear.
I have a different opinion of what an MMO should be. For one: I do not like control and I am a PvPer. I look at a game as a way to play with friends against opponents, like a big capture the flag or a chess game. Why? Because after a while soloing has lost its appeal. It gets boring after you have played 3234 Rpgs vs scripted monsters. I have fun by overcoming obstacles which in todays scripted MMO world means playing against fellow humans. The mechanics you describe is somehow not what I want.
For example when you say "Best way i could make an analogy is to say you wanted to give your friend some stolen money?He didn't steal it and he was real poor so you just wanted to help him out.It is still against the law or in game sense breaking the system." I say that I WANT to give him that advantage. As a friend or member in my guild I should do everything in my power to make him stronger so that my guild prevails against the other guilds.
"How much a player percieves something to be worth won't matter as it is the game DEVS that know best what is a right value.It is quite possible over time for a set value to be proven wrong[have seen this in EQ2]no biggie they go in and change it." Imagine someone finds a rare item and comes to town to sell it. Because of the fixed price an auction is not possible. My guild has 2342342 gold in the stash and needs the item for maintank / pvp players and simply says: We will pay double the market price. Again not possible.
I agree with you on the storage thing though. Its bad game design if I actually need mules. On the point with the guild bank I also agree that a register and various control mechanisms are needed (corp thieving is still hard to stop because of inet anonymity).
Overall the things you described are mechanisms that would turn the MMO into a game where everyone plays with your and only your playstyle. You make other playstyles and possibilities impossible. Your system may stop gold farming but at the same time it will make sure that 75% of the players (like me) will leave the game.
---
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Well i give you this dude ,i like your re -buttle because it was sort of constructive not totally selfish thinking,but...your analogy of what i want is FAR off,about as far as you can get.My fave game is and was FFXI,as we all know it is pretty much the ONLY game designed around team play.All other games are quite soloable.My second fave game was EQ2 again quite a bit closer to team play than a regualr game.
If you really want to know what i want.It is a game that is free from cheating and fair to every paying customer be it day 1 or if hes a noob joining 100 days later.
As far as your RARE idea.If you found a drop and as you put it you like to party as a group,well then let whoever needs the rare drop take it and use it.Why on earth would you think to ONLY have or want to sell it?There is also other things a game design can do like de synth it wich again is a feature FFXI has in it's game.I mean if you started to find several,they wouldn't be so rare anymore,so de synthing them for some rare useable items would be nice.Also if it was a super rare item in game i am quite sure the DEVS would deem it so as far as worth goes.
There is also the fact that your want ,would totally alienate noobs from joining the game at a later time because the economy would be broken.That is exactly the kind of thing i don't want to see in a game.If RMT mechanics are not put into place ,albeit they may sacrifice certain parts of a game ,but the economy will fail.Items will not have a WORTH at all,the worth of an item in a BROKEN economy becomes what ever the gold buyers/sellers are willing to pay in real life cash.That not only drives the price sky high above what the game was designed for,but also brings in RMT farming bots and alienates all the legit playing players from partaking in that type of market.
Anyhow this has become about me trying to explain broken game economies to wich i don't like to explain everytime RMT comes up.It is a blackmark on gaming and does alienate paying customers.ALl players should have equal rights to a game,why? because there money is just as valueable as the next guys.This is what i want in a game,even when comes to PVP i want a system that is fair to all,not just a setup that favours people who can put in more time.Even in real life time does not always equal reward.
Now don't get me wrong on this whole issue as i would totally love an open ended economy with no rules,if the game could police itself properly.The problem is that they can't ,that is a fact,in every single game i have played.We don't need to see players selling accounts on ebay or selling game items for real life cash.It is suppose to be a game not a private business for players.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.