Well let the US stay out this time, last time we went in to africa the world screamed at us, just like now with iraq, so we left , and told you guys be prepared for the genocide to follow. Looks like you all didnt get prepared. Not our fault, nor should we even try to handle it again, we tried in the 90's but everyone else said we were worse than anything else. This is your anything else.
That sums it up nicely.
It's amazing how many countries ( and people ) love to slam the U.S. for going in and cleaning up other peoples' shit, when 99% of the time we are friggen' invited/begged/pleaded with to come help and then yelled at/cursed at/insulted when we do what we were asked. just like Somalia, for example. We went there to help. I remember watching the fucking Somalians butchering,maiming, and then dragging our soldiers through the damn streets. Anyone who wants to talk about us warmongering Americans really ought to look at some of the crap we've put up with in the name of "helping" other nations. Personally, Somalia should be thankful I was not President at that time, 'cause I would have wiped their asses off the map and kicked sand over the top so noone would know they were ever in existence.
And in reference to someone elses' comment earlier, anyone who compares the U.S. to China in terms of human rights issues, only proves their ignorance of world affairs.
Not our prolblem, and making these types of issues our problem has done nothing but screw us again and again. We should mind our own business, if the prviate sector or indivuduals want to get involved and do something humane, then good for them.
What greater tribute to free will than the power to question the highest of authority? What greater display of loyalty than blind faith? What greater gift than free will? What greater love than loyalty?
If the US doesnt do something then no one will. I support the war in Iraq but idc if we leave and let them go back to blowing each other up. After all when was the last time the UN acted on something all they do is debate cause their all to sacred to take action then look bad to other countries. See the US doesnt give a shit what they think. It also helps that we are still the worlds super power.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day. And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
If anything, genocide in Africa should be Europe's responsibility...colonialism screwed up Africa (and Iraq, too) to where it is now.
Lol i thin someone needs to read up a bit and reexamin that post.
Why, he is partly right. Sure, America helped to further screw it up during the Cold War and even now but Belgium, France & England certainly f'ed up Africa well before America got involved.
WOW,
I'm from Belgium, before you make that comment you might want to read up on some things.
We did a lot of good in Congo tons of help went to there, TODAY, tons of money and medical support goes there.
When a conflict broke out in Congo after it's independance, our soldiers went there to make sure there would be no civil war. 10 soldiers of ours were put to the wall and shot dead by Congo militia. Still the country recieves every help and support it can, both people going there helping medically, freeworkers and soldiers to help stabilise it and make sure people are safe.
Before you ever make such an ignorant comment again, look things up.
Excert from wikipedia because you won't believe me anyway.
"When the Belgian Government took over the Administration from King Leopold II, the situation in the Congo improved dramatically. Economic and social changes transformed the Congo into a "model colony"[citation needed]. Primary and high schools were built as well as hospitals, and many Congolese had access to them. Even the ethnic languages were taught at school, a rare occurrence in colonial education. Doctors and medics achieved great victories against the sleeping disease (they managed to eradicate the disease)[citation needed]. There was a medic post in every village, and in bigger cities, people had access to well equipped hospitals[citation needed]. The Administration continued with the economic reforms with the construction of railways, ports, roads, mines, plantations, industrial areas, etc."
Don't ever claim those things again unless you live here and know what you're talking about, it's a disrespect to the thousands of people that helped there, and the people loosing their lives there trying to help. If you said those things here, you would have upset quite a lot of people.
It was the US that wanted uranium from Congo and that's why some people were exploited there actually. Read things before you generalise.
If anything, genocide in Africa should be Europe's responsibility...colonialism screwed up Africa (and Iraq, too) to where it is now.
Lol i thin someone needs to read up a bit and reexamin that post.
Why, he is partly right. Sure, America helped to further screw it up during the Cold War and even now but Belgium, France & England certainly f'ed up Africa well before America got involved.
WOW,
I'm from Belgium, before you make that comment you might want to read up on some things.
We did a lot of good in Congo tons of help went to there, TODAY, tons of money and medical support goes there.
When a conflict broke out in Congo after it's independance, our soldiers went there to make sure there would be no civil war. 10 soldiers of ours were put to the wall and shot dead by Congo militia. Still the country recieves every help and support it can, both people going there helping medically, freeworkers and soldiers to help stabilise it and make sure people are safe.
Before you ever make such an ignorant comment again, look things up.
Excert from wikipedia because you won't believe me anyway.
"When the Belgian Government took over the Administration from King Leopold II, the situation in the Congo improved dramatically. Economic and social changes transformed the Congo into a "model colony"[citation needed]. Primary and high schools were built as well as hospitals, and many Congolese had access to them. Even the ethnic languages were taught at school, a rare occurrence in colonial education. Doctors and medics achieved great victories against the sleeping disease (they managed to eradicate the disease)[citation needed]. There was a medic post in every village, and in bigger cities, people had access to well equipped hospitals[citation needed]. The Administration continued with the economic reforms with the construction of railways, ports, roads, mines, plantations, industrial areas, etc."
Don't ever claim those things again unless you live here and know what you're talking about, it's a disrespect to the thousands of people that helped there, and the people loosing their lives there trying to help. If you said those things here, you would have upset quite a lot of people.
I love the use of wikipedia with the three big blue "citations needed" flags.
it would seem our meaning of the word atrocity differs. there is no polite way to run a war. abu ghraib...ahh, a college prank. what do you get when you leave 18-24 year olds in the desert left to their own devices? donald rumsfeld being fired.
There is the Laws of Armed Combat, the Geneva Convention and the UN Human Rights agreement. Following them should be paramount. Ther may be no polite way to run a war, but there sure as hell is a legal way to run one.
Ive been to university, i did some pretty fu**ed up shit there, this does not mean that i should be compared to a prison guard trusted with the wellbeing of 100's of detainees. The point you brought up about 18-24yo left in the desert to their own devices is interesting though. As this is exactly what is going on across the whole of the Iraq region. Now THAT is a scary thought, especially considering the number of casualties to come out of this war. Or is that a college prank as well.
With or without Abu Ghraib in my argument, the point remains the same. America is commiting human rights violations. I probably cant use the word atrocities, but thats what worries me, how deep do these violations go. I do think it is atrocious when a countryh illegally detains citizens of their allies and refuses to hand them over to their own governments though.
Perhaps next time instead of using nondescript terms like 'you people' you could direct your opinions of people to the ones who you are meaning. It is not my fault that i considered myself to be included as a person.
Im so damn tired so pls be patient and excuse me for being curt with my responses.
abu ghraib was a big blemish on serving military members. worse things have happened in war. the media is our enemy and only fan the flames on west vs mideast tensions.
my point on extremist view was your statement "as this is going on across the whole of the iraq region."
no it is not. more good is being done than what media points out. drops in buckets.
war is difficult and stressful on our armed service members. they adhere in the US to the UCMJ, if found guilty of any violations of war, they are punished. in all societies we have crime and punishment, including societies at war.
I just want some good news and am tired of how the world is falling apart, america is broken, and our service members are warlord punks.
on topic. i think its the responsibility of the world to help nations like africa.
I'm from Belgium, before you make that comment you might want to read up on some things. We did a lot of good in Congo tons of help went to there, TODAY, tons of money and medical support goes there. When a conflict broke out in Congo after it's independance, our soldiers went there to make sure there would be no civil war. 10 soldiers of ours were put to the wall and shot dead by Congo militia. Still the country recieves every help and support it can, both people going there helping medically, freeworkers and soldiers to help stabilise it and make sure people are safe. Before you ever make such an ignorant comment again, look things up.
Excert from wikipedia because you won't believe me anyway. "When the Belgian Government took over the Administration from King Leopold II, the situation in the Congo improved dramatically. Economic and social changes transformed the Congo into a "model colony"[citation needed]. Primary and high schools were built as well as hospitals, and many Congolese had access to them. Even the ethnic languages were taught at school, a rare occurrence in colonial education. Doctors and medics achieved great victories against the sleeping disease (they managed to eradicate the disease)[citation needed]. There was a medic post in every village, and in bigger cities, people had access to well equipped hospitals[citation needed]. The Administration continued with the economic reforms with the construction of railways, ports, roads, mines, plantations, industrial areas, etc."
Don't ever claim those things again unless you live here and know what you're talking about, it's a disrespect to the thousands of people that helped there, and the people loosing their lives there trying to help. If you said those things here, you would have upset quite a lot of people.
I love the use of wikipedia with the three big blue "citations needed" flags.
If that was against the wikipedia comment or against the thing I said, I don't need it. My uncle went to Congo and helped there.
You know what he earned his whole live for doing that?
Nothing. He was a minister.
So many people helped there, a lot that I personally know. Don't even start that belgium is responsible for Africa's situation. You know nothing.
I'm from Belgium, before you make that comment you might want to read up on some things. We did a lot of good in Congo tons of help went to there, TODAY, tons of money and medical support goes there. When a conflict broke out in Congo after it's independance, our soldiers went there to make sure there would be no civil war. 10 soldiers of ours were put to the wall and shot dead by Congo militia. Still the country recieves every help and support it can, both people going there helping medically, freeworkers and soldiers to help stabilise it and make sure people are safe. Before you ever make such an ignorant comment again, look things up.
Excert from wikipedia because you won't believe me anyway. "When the Belgian Government took over the Administration from King Leopold II, the situation in the Congo improved dramatically. Economic and social changes transformed the Congo into a "model colony"[citation needed]. Primary and high schools were built as well as hospitals, and many Congolese had access to them. Even the ethnic languages were taught at school, a rare occurrence in colonial education. Doctors and medics achieved great victories against the sleeping disease (they managed to eradicate the disease)[citation needed]. There was a medic post in every village, and in bigger cities, people had access to well equipped hospitals[citation needed]. The Administration continued with the economic reforms with the construction of railways, ports, roads, mines, plantations, industrial areas, etc."
Don't ever claim those things again unless you live here and know what you're talking about, it's a disrespect to the thousands of people that helped there, and the people loosing their lives there trying to help. If you said those things here, you would have upset quite a lot of people.
I love the use of wikipedia with the three big blue "citations needed" flags.
If that was against the wikipedia comment or against the thing I said, I don't need it. My uncle went to Congo and helped there.
You know what he earned his whole live for doing that?
Nothing. He was a minister.
So many people helped there, a lot that I personally know. Don't even start that belgium is responsible for Africa's situation. You know nothing.
I do think Belgium is at least partially responsible for the situations in its former colonies, i.e. Congo, Rwanda/Burundi, etc.
"Repression,murder, forced labour, racism and exploitation were intrinsic dimensions of the
Belgian rule in the Congo, as they were in all colonial enterprises. This is not to deny
the fact that the Belgians effectively did build roads, schools and hospitals and even
raised the living standards of some of their colonial subjects. Moreover, the ‘dark’ and
‘bright’ sides of colonialism were not present in the same proportions during the different
phases of foreign rule in the Congo; in fact, their ‘mix’ changed as time went by."
That's pretty typical of the colonial experience in general, it happened in pretty much all of Africa and most of the colonized world, whether the colonizers were Belgians, Spaniards, British, or the French, the results are mostly the same. Couple that with the artificially created nations, like Iraq (a nation made of three conflicting ethnic groups) and you get the problems still evident today.
Well in order for the land of the free [America]to do anything at all about it Africa has to have certain criteria in order to make it worthwhile first.
- A leadership that the President has a dislike for. - A Kooky religion [i.e. not a bible humper]. - MUST have lots of free oil and gas [i.e. free as in doesnt belong to America]. - Must have a plausible sob story to act as justification for an invasion.
Thats about dead on.The countries that have been killing themselves have one huge problem ,they are all african countries with little or no oil so are worthless in the eyes of the "superpower".
Now if Nigeria ,one of the oil rich countries of africa ,starts a massacre which would halt oil production and sent prices thru the roof now thats worth "saving".
If anything, genocide in Africa should be Europe's responsibility...colonialism screwed up Africa (and Iraq, too) to where it is now.
Lol i thin someone needs to read up a bit and reexamin that post.
Why, he is partly right. Sure, America helped to further screw it up during the Cold War and even now but Belgium, France & England certainly f'ed up Africa well before America got involved.
WOW,
I'm from Belgium, before you make that comment you might want to read up on some things.
We did a lot of good in Congo tons of help went to there, TODAY, tons of money and medical support goes there.
When a conflict broke out in Congo after it's independance, our soldiers went there to make sure there would be no civil war. 10 soldiers of ours were put to the wall and shot dead by Congo militia. Still the country recieves every help and support it can, both people going there helping medically, freeworkers and soldiers to help stabilise it and make sure people are safe.
Before you ever make such an ignorant comment again, look things up.
Excert from wikipedia because you won't believe me anyway.
"When the Belgian Government took over the Administration from King Leopold II, the situation in the Congo improved dramatically. Economic and social changes transformed the Congo into a "model colony"[citation needed]. Primary and high schools were built as well as hospitals, and many Congolese had access to them. Even the ethnic languages were taught at school, a rare occurrence in colonial education. Doctors and medics achieved great victories against the sleeping disease (they managed to eradicate the disease)[citation needed]. There was a medic post in every village, and in bigger cities, people had access to well equipped hospitals[citation needed]. The Administration continued with the economic reforms with the construction of railways, ports, roads, mines, plantations, industrial areas, etc."
Don't ever claim those things again unless you live here and know what you're talking about, it's a disrespect to the thousands of people that helped there, and the people loosing their lives there trying to help. If you said those things here, you would have upset quite a lot of people.
It was the US that wanted uranium from Congo and that's why some people were exploited there actually. Read things before you generalise.
please,listen up i am from the UK and one thing i learnt in my life is to accept the truth of history.
I am not going to say my great great grandfather civilized savages and brought order to 1/2 the world.They invaded and colonized and enjoyed the wealth of other nations.They were not knights in shiny armour.
Even at that belgium despite having very few colonies treated their few colony on a genocidal level.Go educate yourself ,read king leopold's ghost.Here is a portion from wiki of the book.
"King Léopold takes his place with the great tyrants, having reduced the population of the Congo Free State—which Hochschild describes as being his private fiefdom—from 20 million people to 10 million in 40 years."
"Forced labor was extorted from the natives. The abuses were particularly bad in the rubber industry, including enslavement and mutilation of the native population. Missionary John Harris of Baringa, for example, was so shocked by what he had come across that he felt moved to write a letter to Leopold's chief agent in the Congo: "I have just returned from a journey inland to the village of Insongo Mboyo. The abject misery and utter abandon is positively indescribable. I was so moved, Your Excellency, by the people's stories that I took the liberty of promising them that in future you will only kill them for crimes they commit."
Ok w/e, you're insane to call that a genocide. Because some folks mistreated them.
And 99% of the ppl did good things. w/e, you have never even lived here but know how it went. Anyway it's off-topic, I'll end up getting upset if I answer to these silly claims. Sorry, bye.
Ok w/e, you're insane to call that a genocide. Because some folks mistreated them. And 99% of the ppl did good things. w/e, you have never even lived here but know how it went. Anyway it's off-topic, I'll end up getting upset if I answer to these silly claims. Sorry, bye.
10 million is genocide .Let me put it into focus for you.
That was half the population of congo.Aka 1 in 2.
That is ALL the current population of belgium.
That is how bad it is.For a country you claim was doing so well under belgium rule to lose 50% of its population in under 40 years is genocide.
I am shocked in this modern era we still have people defending colonial atrocities.Very shocked.
And neither did you live there at that time because i doubt you were born in 1900 when this king decided to hack a population to bits because he wanted to frighten them to bring more rubber.
Ok w/e, you're insane to call that a genocide. Because some folks mistreated them. And 99% of the ppl did good things. w/e, you have never even lived here but know how it went. Anyway it's off-topic, I'll end up getting upset if I answer to these silly claims. Sorry, bye.
10 million is genocide .Let me put it into focus for you.
That was half the population of congo.Aka 1 in 2.
That is ALL the current population of belgium.
That is how bad it is.For a country you claim was doing so well under belgium rule to lose 50% of its population in under 40 years is genocide.
I am shocked in this modern era we still have people defending colonial atrocities.Very shocked.
And neither did you live there at that time because i doubt you were born in 1900 when this king decided to hack a population to bits because he wanted to frighten them to bring more rubber.
10 million? Are you mental?
The war broke out after Belgium left. Belgium left and they clashed with each other.
Belgium was affraid to send help in because they could get killed. They send in people to help after the leave, and 10 of their soldiers got slaughtered by the conflict and we pulled out again.
Belgium had nothing to do with the conflict. Congo and Rwanda created that after we left.
Genocide? Shame on you after all the help that country got. Come here and tell that to the people that helped there. You'd get slapped.
And now I'm leaving you because you're going to spew nonsense again. You have no idea what you're talking about.
Don't accuse for something my country had nothing to do with.
Ok w/e, you're insane to call that a genocide. Because some folks mistreated them. And 99% of the ppl did good things. w/e, you have never even lived here but know how it went. Anyway it's off-topic, I'll end up getting upset if I answer to these silly claims. Sorry, bye.
10 million is genocide .Let me put it into focus for you.
That was half the population of congo.Aka 1 in 2.
That is ALL the current population of belgium.
That is how bad it is.For a country you claim was doing so well under belgium rule to lose 50% of its population in under 40 years is genocide.
I am shocked in this modern era we still have people defending colonial atrocities.Very shocked.
And neither did you live there at that time because i doubt you were born in 1900 when this king decided to hack a population to bits because he wanted to frighten them to bring more rubber.
10 million? Are you mental?
The war broke out after Belgium left. Belgium left and they clashed with each other.
Belgium was affraid to send help in because they could get killed. They send in people to help after the leave, and 10 of their soldiers got slaughtered by the conflict and we pulled out again.
Belgium had nothing to do with the conflict. Congo and Rwanda created that after we left.
Genocide? Shame on you after all the help that country got.
And now I'm leaving you because you're going to spew nonsense again. You have no idea what you're talking about.
Read your history this genocide took place in 1885 to 1912 under belgium rule of the congo.Thats like 50 years before they achieved independence on June 30, 1960 .
Sorry but i really careless if you are getting upset.But justifying how good belgium was to congo is an insult to the 10 million people they killed .
I am sorry for the 10 soliders killed in the civil war there after they got independence but its a farcry from the 10 million + massacred during belgian rule.
Ok w/e, you're insane to call that a genocide. Because some folks mistreated them. And 99% of the ppl did good things. w/e, you have never even lived here but know how it went. Anyway it's off-topic, I'll end up getting upset if I answer to these silly claims. Sorry, bye.
10 million is genocide .Let me put it into focus for you.
That was half the population of congo.Aka 1 in 2.
That is ALL the current population of belgium.
That is how bad it is.For a country you claim was doing so well under belgium rule to lose 50% of its population in under 40 years is genocide.
I am shocked in this modern era we still have people defending colonial atrocities.Very shocked.
And neither did you live there at that time because i doubt you were born in 1900 when this king decided to hack a population to bits because he wanted to frighten them to bring more rubber.
10 million? Are you mental?
The war broke out after Belgium left. Belgium left and they clashed with each other.
Belgium was affraid to send help in because they could get killed. They send in people to help after the leave, and 10 of their soldiers got slaughtered by the conflict and we pulled out again.
Belgium had nothing to do with the conflict. Congo and Rwanda created that after we left.
Genocide? Shame on you after all the help that country got.
And now I'm leaving you because you're going to spew nonsense again. You have no idea what you're talking about.
Read your history this genocide took place in 1885 to 1912 under belgium rule of the congo.Thats like 50 years before they achieved independence on June 30, 1960 .
Sorry but i really careless if you are getting upset.But justifying how good belgium was to congo is an insult to the 10 million people they killed .
I am sorry for the 10 soliders killed in the civil war there after they got independence but its a farcry from the 10 million + massacred during belgian rule.
"The scope of that repression is staggering. For Leopold, having a colony was the way to greatness and nothing would stand in the way of that greatness - or profits from the rubber trade: not morality, not decency, not God. Under his command, his soldiers engaged in what would now probably fall under the definition of genocide. In one of the documentary's most chilling moments, an actor coolly reads an excerpt from a diary kept by an officer under Leopold's command: "Village set on fire. Dinner then return." And there is the matter of mutilation: the king's soldiers, in a bid to stave off waste, were ordered to bring back a severed native hand for each cartridge they fired. The hands were later smoked and preserved."
From the 2003 documentary Congo: White King, Red Rubber, Black Death.
Sorry but i really careless if you are getting upset.But justifying how good belgium was to congo is an insult to the 10 million people they killed .
They killed????
Those 10 million are because of the clash between Rwanda and Burundi.
Tutsi's and Hutu's killed each other.
That had nothing to do with Belgium. NOTHING. And now shut up and stop insulting my country.
Looks like you're the only one getting set straight, or are you going to say Leopold did none of those things? You like to bash the U.S. every chance you get. Sucks when it's your country in the crossfire, eh?
Those 10 million are because of the clash between Rwanda and Burundi. Tutsi's and Hutu's killed each other. That had nothing to do with Belgium. NOTHING. And now shut up and stop insulting my country.
Looks like you're the only one getting set straight, or are you going to say Leopold did none of those things? You like to bash the U.S. every chance you get. Sucks when it's your country in the crossfire, eh?
Listen very carefully silly.
Some people were mistreated during the rubber trade. Some. 99% of the people there were there to help. A lot of ministers , soldiers, nurses and freelance helped , and schools were build , roads were build and people cured.
Not one soldier was ever there to shoot anyone.
The conflict broke out after Belgium left and the 2 tribes (hutu's and tutsi's) clashed with each other, and that created a war that killed people.
Belgium had no part in that and tried to help and it got 10 of our soldiers slaughtered and we pulled out again.
Now you can go on with your stupid rickshaw answer, I need to go out, bye.
Sorry but i really careless if you are getting upset.But justifying how good belgium was to congo is an insult to the 10 million people they killed .
They killed????
Those 10 million are because of the clash between Rwanda and Burundi.
Tutsi's and Hutu's killed each other.
That had nothing to do with Belgium. NOTHING. And now shut up and stop insulting my country.
What has the Rwanda war of a few years ago got to do with the massacres of 1885-1908?
Besides you are so good at copy and pasting wiki.I found your article from wiki which you posted.
You did however neglect to copy and paste the paragraph just above it
"A government commission later concluded that the population of the Congo had been "reduced by half" during this brutal period.[6]The actions of the Free State's administration sparked international protests led by E. D. Morel and British diplomat/Irish patriot Roger Casement, whose 1904 report on the Congo condemned the practice, as well as famous writers such as Mark Twain. Joseph Conrad's novella Heart of Darkness also takes place in Congo Free State. In 1908, the Belgian parliament, which was at first reluctant, bowed to international pressure (especially from Great Britain) by taking over the Free State from the king as a Belgian colony. From then on, it became the Belgian Congo, under the rule of the elected Belgian government."
This is all under king leopard rule of belgium who was the monarch at that time of belgium.
This is from same article you pasted to show belgium build roads(roads for 10 million left from 20 million).
Like i said i am from the UK and will happily tell you that during the rule of the UK of half the world they stole and conquered .I will never defend UK on colonizing nations .So its shocking that someone would come defend belgium who had only a handful of colonies to start with but saw it fit to wipe out half the population of one of them.
And you seems more concerned about 10 soliders who got killed during congo civil war then the 10 million leopald slaughtered.They had families too and felt pain and were not 10 but 10 million.
why dont the countries that caused all this mess by setting up the colonies in the first place step up ?
why does it have to be the US leading the way again? Everytime we try we get nothing but sh*t from everyone else.
Hell all of the world says nothing about the US except that we are warmongering and out to control the world. Those places should be jumping at this chance to show how humanitarian they are compared to the US.
Wonder why they are not. Oh yeah there isnt any profit in doing it.
The US went in already, even tho there was nothnig to gain, we got blasted by the world press. Screw that trying again. Europe broke it , we tried to fix it anyway, the world yelled at us, we left warning you this would happen and we were laughed at and called alarmist who would say anything to justify another military occupation.
Now its europes turn to undo what they did.
here is a big chance to take a leadership role in world politics, all you have to do is step up.
Lets see how the other people who hate US and everything american handle someone elses problems.
The show has been pretty weak so far , just alot of shouting that America should do something while they sit on their ass waiting for another chance to yell "You're doing it wrong!" if we do step in.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
Comments
It's amazing how many countries ( and people ) love to slam the U.S. for going in and cleaning up other peoples' shit, when 99% of the time we are friggen' invited/begged/pleaded with to come help and then yelled at/cursed at/insulted when we do what we were asked. just like Somalia, for example. We went there to help. I remember watching the fucking Somalians butchering,maiming, and then dragging our soldiers through the damn streets. Anyone who wants to talk about us warmongering Americans really ought to look at some of the crap we've put up with in the name of "helping" other nations. Personally, Somalia should be thankful I was not President at that time, 'cause I would have wiped their asses off the map and kicked sand over the top so noone would know they were ever in existence.
And in reference to someone elses' comment earlier, anyone who compares the U.S. to China in terms of human rights issues, only proves their ignorance of world affairs.
Not our prolblem, and making these types of issues our problem has done nothing but screw us again and again. We should mind our own business, if the prviate sector or indivuduals want to get involved and do something humane, then good for them.
What greater tribute to free will than the power to question the highest of authority? What greater display of loyalty than blind faith? What greater gift than free will? What greater love than loyalty?
If the US doesnt do something then no one will. I support the war in Iraq but idc if we leave and let them go back to blowing each other up. After all when was the last time the UN acted on something all they do is debate cause their all to sacred to take action then look bad to other countries. See the US doesnt give a shit what they think. It also helps that we are still the worlds super power.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
Lol i thin someone needs to read up a bit and reexamin that post.
Why, he is partly right. Sure, America helped to further screw it up during the Cold War and even now but Belgium, France & England certainly f'ed up Africa well before America got involved.
WOW,
I'm from Belgium, before you make that comment you might want to read up on some things.
We did a lot of good in Congo tons of help went to there, TODAY, tons of money and medical support goes there.
When a conflict broke out in Congo after it's independance, our soldiers went there to make sure there would be no civil war. 10 soldiers of ours were put to the wall and shot dead by Congo militia. Still the country recieves every help and support it can, both people going there helping medically, freeworkers and soldiers to help stabilise it and make sure people are safe.
Before you ever make such an ignorant comment again, look things up.
Excert from wikipedia because you won't believe me anyway.
"When the Belgian Government took over the Administration from King Leopold II, the situation in the Congo improved dramatically. Economic and social changes transformed the Congo into a "model colony"[citation needed]. Primary and high schools were built as well as hospitals, and many Congolese had access to them. Even the ethnic languages were taught at school, a rare occurrence in colonial education. Doctors and medics achieved great victories against the sleeping disease (they managed to eradicate the disease)[citation needed]. There was a medic post in every village, and in bigger cities, people had access to well equipped hospitals[citation needed]. The Administration continued with the economic reforms with the construction of railways, ports, roads, mines, plantations, industrial areas, etc."
Don't ever claim those things again unless you live here and know what you're talking about, it's a disrespect to the thousands of people that helped there, and the people loosing their lives there trying to help. If you said those things here, you would have upset quite a lot of people.
It was the US that wanted uranium from Congo and that's why some people were exploited there actually. Read things before you generalise.
Lol i thin someone needs to read up a bit and reexamin that post.
Why, he is partly right. Sure, America helped to further screw it up during the Cold War and even now but Belgium, France & England certainly f'ed up Africa well before America got involved.
WOW,
I'm from Belgium, before you make that comment you might want to read up on some things.
We did a lot of good in Congo tons of help went to there, TODAY, tons of money and medical support goes there.
When a conflict broke out in Congo after it's independance, our soldiers went there to make sure there would be no civil war. 10 soldiers of ours were put to the wall and shot dead by Congo militia. Still the country recieves every help and support it can, both people going there helping medically, freeworkers and soldiers to help stabilise it and make sure people are safe.
Before you ever make such an ignorant comment again, look things up.
Excert from wikipedia because you won't believe me anyway.
"When the Belgian Government took over the Administration from King Leopold II, the situation in the Congo improved dramatically. Economic and social changes transformed the Congo into a "model colony"[citation needed]. Primary and high schools were built as well as hospitals, and many Congolese had access to them. Even the ethnic languages were taught at school, a rare occurrence in colonial education. Doctors and medics achieved great victories against the sleeping disease (they managed to eradicate the disease)[citation needed]. There was a medic post in every village, and in bigger cities, people had access to well equipped hospitals[citation needed]. The Administration continued with the economic reforms with the construction of railways, ports, roads, mines, plantations, industrial areas, etc."
Don't ever claim those things again unless you live here and know what you're talking about, it's a disrespect to the thousands of people that helped there, and the people loosing their lives there trying to help. If you said those things here, you would have upset quite a lot of people.
I love the use of wikipedia with the three big blue "citations needed" flags.Ive been to university, i did some pretty fu**ed up shit there, this does not mean that i should be compared to a prison guard trusted with the wellbeing of 100's of detainees. The point you brought up about 18-24yo left in the desert to their own devices is interesting though. As this is exactly what is going on across the whole of the Iraq region. Now THAT is a scary thought, especially considering the number of casualties to come out of this war. Or is that a college prank as well.
With or without Abu Ghraib in my argument, the point remains the same. America is commiting human rights violations. I probably cant use the word atrocities, but thats what worries me, how deep do these violations go. I do think it is atrocious when a countryh illegally detains citizens of their allies and refuses to hand them over to their own governments though.
Perhaps next time instead of using nondescript terms like 'you people' you could direct your opinions of people to the ones who you are meaning. It is not my fault that i considered myself to be included as a person.
Im so damn tired so pls be patient and excuse me for being curt with my responses.abu ghraib was a big blemish on serving military members. worse things have happened in war. the media is our enemy and only fan the flames on west vs mideast tensions.
my point on extremist view was your statement "as this is going on across the whole of the iraq region."
no it is not. more good is being done than what media points out. drops in buckets.
war is difficult and stressful on our armed service members. they adhere in the US to the UCMJ, if found guilty of any violations of war, they are punished. in all societies we have crime and punishment, including societies at war.
I just want some good news and am tired of how the world is falling apart, america is broken, and our service members are warlord punks.
on topic. i think its the responsibility of the world to help nations like africa.
-I will subtlety invade your psyche-
I love the use of wikipedia with the three big blue "citations needed" flags.If that was against the wikipedia comment or against the thing I said, I don't need it. My uncle went to Congo and helped there.
You know what he earned his whole live for doing that?
Nothing. He was a minister.
So many people helped there, a lot that I personally know. Don't even start that belgium is responsible for Africa's situation. You know nothing.
looking at the post above it seems that collectively, we are mirroring the UN.
leadership has its benefits.
-I will subtlety invade your psyche-
If that was against the wikipedia comment or against the thing I said, I don't need it. My uncle went to Congo and helped there.
You know what he earned his whole live for doing that?
Nothing. He was a minister.
So many people helped there, a lot that I personally know. Don't even start that belgium is responsible for Africa's situation. You know nothing.
I do think Belgium is at least partially responsible for the situations in its former colonies, i.e. Congo, Rwanda/Burundi, etc."Repression,murder, forced labour, racism and exploitation were intrinsic dimensions of the
Belgian rule in the Congo, as they were in all colonial enterprises. This is not to deny
the fact that the Belgians effectively did build roads, schools and hospitals and even
raised the living standards of some of their colonial subjects. Moreover, the ‘dark’ and
‘bright’ sides of colonialism were not present in the same proportions during the different
phases of foreign rule in the Congo; in fact, their ‘mix’ changed as time went by."
http://www.cliohres.net/books/6/Vanthemsche.pdf
That's pretty typical of the colonial experience in general, it happened in pretty much all of Africa and most of the colonized world, whether the colonizers were Belgians, Spaniards, British, or the French, the results are mostly the same. Couple that with the artificially created nations, like Iraq (a nation made of three conflicting ethnic groups) and you get the problems still evident today.
nm
Sorry to go off-topic. ^^
dont worry, happens all the time.
so i just finished some grilled chicken with noodles.
see what i mean ^^
-I will subtlety invade your psyche-
^^, hah I don't do on puropse, but just all time
I had 'gebakken kip met champignonsaus" which means..baked chiken with champignon sauce?..hah, I can't translate food dishes well
Thats about dead on.The countries that have been killing themselves have one huge problem ,they are all african countries with little or no oil so are worthless in the eyes of the "superpower".
Now if Nigeria ,one of the oil rich countries of africa ,starts a massacre which would halt oil production and sent prices thru the roof now thats worth "saving".
Lol i thin someone needs to read up a bit and reexamin that post.
Why, he is partly right. Sure, America helped to further screw it up during the Cold War and even now but Belgium, France & England certainly f'ed up Africa well before America got involved.
WOW,
I'm from Belgium, before you make that comment you might want to read up on some things.
We did a lot of good in Congo tons of help went to there, TODAY, tons of money and medical support goes there.
When a conflict broke out in Congo after it's independance, our soldiers went there to make sure there would be no civil war. 10 soldiers of ours were put to the wall and shot dead by Congo militia. Still the country recieves every help and support it can, both people going there helping medically, freeworkers and soldiers to help stabilise it and make sure people are safe.
Before you ever make such an ignorant comment again, look things up.
Excert from wikipedia because you won't believe me anyway.
"When the Belgian Government took over the Administration from King Leopold II, the situation in the Congo improved dramatically. Economic and social changes transformed the Congo into a "model colony"[citation needed]. Primary and high schools were built as well as hospitals, and many Congolese had access to them. Even the ethnic languages were taught at school, a rare occurrence in colonial education. Doctors and medics achieved great victories against the sleeping disease (they managed to eradicate the disease)[citation needed]. There was a medic post in every village, and in bigger cities, people had access to well equipped hospitals[citation needed]. The Administration continued with the economic reforms with the construction of railways, ports, roads, mines, plantations, industrial areas, etc."
Don't ever claim those things again unless you live here and know what you're talking about, it's a disrespect to the thousands of people that helped there, and the people loosing their lives there trying to help. If you said those things here, you would have upset quite a lot of people.
It was the US that wanted uranium from Congo and that's why some people were exploited there actually. Read things before you generalise.
please,listen up i am from the UK and one thing i learnt in my life is to accept the truth of history.
I am not going to say my great great grandfather civilized savages and brought order to 1/2 the world.They invaded and colonized and enjoyed the wealth of other nations.They were not knights in shiny armour.
Even at that belgium despite having very few colonies treated their few colony on a genocidal level.Go educate yourself ,read king leopold's ghost.Here is a portion from wiki of the book.
"King Léopold takes his place with the great tyrants, having reduced the population of the Congo Free State—which Hochschild describes as being his private fiefdom—from 20 million people to 10 million in 40 years."
"Forced labor was extorted from the natives. The abuses were particularly bad in the rubber industry, including enslavement and mutilation of the native population. Missionary John Harris of Baringa, for example, was so shocked by what he had come across that he felt moved to write a letter to Leopold's chief agent in the Congo: "I have just returned from a journey inland to the village of Insongo Mboyo. The abject misery and utter abandon is positively indescribable. I was so moved, Your Excellency, by the people's stories that I took the liberty of promising them that in future you will only kill them for crimes they commit."
And this is from wikipedia too.
Ok w/e, you're insane to call that a genocide. Because some folks mistreated them.
And 99% of the ppl did good things. w/e, you have never even lived here but know how it went. Anyway it's off-topic, I'll end up getting upset if I answer to these silly claims. Sorry, bye.
10 million is genocide .Let me put it into focus for you.
That was half the population of congo.Aka 1 in 2.
That is ALL the current population of belgium.
That is how bad it is.For a country you claim was doing so well under belgium rule to lose 50% of its population in under 40 years is genocide.
I am shocked in this modern era we still have people defending colonial atrocities.Very shocked.
And neither did you live there at that time because i doubt you were born in 1900 when this king decided to hack a population to bits because he wanted to frighten them to bring more rubber.
10 million is genocide .Let me put it into focus for you.
That was half the population of congo.Aka 1 in 2.
That is ALL the current population of belgium.
That is how bad it is.For a country you claim was doing so well under belgium rule to lose 50% of its population in under 40 years is genocide.
I am shocked in this modern era we still have people defending colonial atrocities.Very shocked.
And neither did you live there at that time because i doubt you were born in 1900 when this king decided to hack a population to bits because he wanted to frighten them to bring more rubber.
10 million? Are you mental?
The war broke out after Belgium left. Belgium left and they clashed with each other.
Belgium was affraid to send help in because they could get killed. They send in people to help after the leave, and 10 of their soldiers got slaughtered by the conflict and we pulled out again.
Belgium had nothing to do with the conflict. Congo and Rwanda created that after we left.
Genocide? Shame on you after all the help that country got. Come here and tell that to the people that helped there. You'd get slapped.
And now I'm leaving you because you're going to spew nonsense again. You have no idea what you're talking about.
Don't accuse for something my country had nothing to do with.
10 million is genocide .Let me put it into focus for you.
That was half the population of congo.Aka 1 in 2.
That is ALL the current population of belgium.
That is how bad it is.For a country you claim was doing so well under belgium rule to lose 50% of its population in under 40 years is genocide.
I am shocked in this modern era we still have people defending colonial atrocities.Very shocked.
And neither did you live there at that time because i doubt you were born in 1900 when this king decided to hack a population to bits because he wanted to frighten them to bring more rubber.
10 million? Are you mental?
The war broke out after Belgium left. Belgium left and they clashed with each other.
Belgium was affraid to send help in because they could get killed. They send in people to help after the leave, and 10 of their soldiers got slaughtered by the conflict and we pulled out again.
Belgium had nothing to do with the conflict. Congo and Rwanda created that after we left.
Genocide? Shame on you after all the help that country got.
And now I'm leaving you because you're going to spew nonsense again. You have no idea what you're talking about.
Read your history this genocide took place in 1885 to 1912 under belgium rule of the congo.Thats like 50 years before they achieved independence on June 30, 1960 .
Sorry but i really careless if you are getting upset.But justifying how good belgium was to congo is an insult to the 10 million people they killed .
I am sorry for the 10 soliders killed in the civil war there after they got independence but its a farcry from the 10 million + massacred during belgian rule.
10 million is genocide .Let me put it into focus for you.
That was half the population of congo.Aka 1 in 2.
That is ALL the current population of belgium.
That is how bad it is.For a country you claim was doing so well under belgium rule to lose 50% of its population in under 40 years is genocide.
I am shocked in this modern era we still have people defending colonial atrocities.Very shocked.
And neither did you live there at that time because i doubt you were born in 1900 when this king decided to hack a population to bits because he wanted to frighten them to bring more rubber.
10 million? Are you mental?
The war broke out after Belgium left. Belgium left and they clashed with each other.
Belgium was affraid to send help in because they could get killed. They send in people to help after the leave, and 10 of their soldiers got slaughtered by the conflict and we pulled out again.
Belgium had nothing to do with the conflict. Congo and Rwanda created that after we left.
Genocide? Shame on you after all the help that country got.
And now I'm leaving you because you're going to spew nonsense again. You have no idea what you're talking about.
Read your history this genocide took place in 1885 to 1912 under belgium rule of the congo.Thats like 50 years before they achieved independence on June 30, 1960 .
Sorry but i really careless if you are getting upset.But justifying how good belgium was to congo is an insult to the 10 million people they killed .
I am sorry for the 10 soliders killed in the civil war there after they got independence but its a farcry from the 10 million + massacred during belgian rule.
"The scope of that repression is staggering. For Leopold, having a colony was the way to greatness and nothing would stand in the way of that greatness - or profits from the rubber trade: not morality, not decency, not God. Under his command, his soldiers engaged in what would now probably fall under the definition of genocide. In one of the documentary's most chilling moments, an actor coolly reads an excerpt from a diary kept by an officer under Leopold's command: "Village set on fire. Dinner then return." And there is the matter of mutilation: the king's soldiers, in a bid to stave off waste, were ordered to bring back a severed native hand for each cartridge they fired. The hands were later smoked and preserved."
From the 2003 documentary Congo: White King, Red Rubber, Black Death.
They killed????
Those 10 million are because of the clash between Rwanda and Burundi.
Tutsi's and Hutu's killed each other.
That had nothing to do with Belgium. NOTHING. And now shut up and stop insulting my country.
They killed????
Those 10 million are because of the clash between Rwanda and Burundi.
Tutsi's and Hutu's killed each other.
That had nothing to do with Belgium. NOTHING. And now shut up and stop insulting my country.
Looks like you're the only one getting set straight, or are you going to say Leopold did none of those things? You like to bash the U.S. every chance you get. Sucks when it's your country in the crossfire, eh?
Looks like you're the only one getting set straight, or are you going to say Leopold did none of those things? You like to bash the U.S. every chance you get. Sucks when it's your country in the crossfire, eh?
Listen very carefully silly.
Some people were mistreated during the rubber trade. Some. 99% of the people there were there to help. A lot of ministers , soldiers, nurses and freelance helped , and schools were build , roads were build and people cured.
Not one soldier was ever there to shoot anyone.
The conflict broke out after Belgium left and the 2 tribes (hutu's and tutsi's) clashed with each other, and that created a war that killed people.
Belgium had no part in that and tried to help and it got 10 of our soldiers slaughtered and we pulled out again.
Now you can go on with your stupid rickshaw answer, I need to go out, bye.
They killed????
Those 10 million are because of the clash between Rwanda and Burundi.
Tutsi's and Hutu's killed each other.
That had nothing to do with Belgium. NOTHING. And now shut up and stop insulting my country.
What has the Rwanda war of a few years ago got to do with the massacres of 1885-1908?
Besides you are so good at copy and pasting wiki.I found your article from wiki which you posted.
You did however neglect to copy and paste the paragraph just above it
"A government commission later concluded that the population of the Congo had been "reduced by half" during this brutal period.[6]The actions of the Free State's administration sparked international protests led by E. D. Morel and British diplomat/Irish patriot Roger Casement, whose 1904 report on the Congo condemned the practice, as well as famous writers such as Mark Twain. Joseph Conrad's novella Heart of Darkness also takes place in Congo Free State. In 1908, the Belgian parliament, which was at first reluctant, bowed to international pressure (especially from Great Britain) by taking over the Free State from the king as a Belgian colony. From then on, it became the Belgian Congo, under the rule of the elected Belgian government."
This is all under king leopard rule of belgium who was the monarch at that time of belgium.
This is from same article you pasted to show belgium build roads(roads for 10 million left from 20 million).
Like i said i am from the UK and will happily tell you that during the rule of the UK of half the world they stole and conquered .I will never defend UK on colonizing nations .So its shocking that someone would come defend belgium who had only a handful of colonies to start with but saw it fit to wipe out half the population of one of them.
And you seems more concerned about 10 soliders who got killed during congo civil war then the 10 million leopald slaughtered.They had families too and felt pain and were not 10 but 10 million.
why dont the countries that caused all this mess by setting up the colonies in the first place step up ?
why does it have to be the US leading the way again? Everytime we try we get nothing but sh*t from everyone else.
Hell all of the world says nothing about the US except that we are warmongering and out to control the world. Those places should be jumping at this chance to show how humanitarian they are compared to the US.
Wonder why they are not. Oh yeah there isnt any profit in doing it.
The US went in already, even tho there was nothnig to gain, we got blasted by the world press. Screw that trying again. Europe broke it , we tried to fix it anyway, the world yelled at us, we left warning you this would happen and we were laughed at and called alarmist who would say anything to justify another military occupation.
Now its europes turn to undo what they did.
here is a big chance to take a leadership role in world politics, all you have to do is step up.
Lets see how the other people who hate US and everything american handle someone elses problems.
The show has been pretty weak so far , just alot of shouting that America should do something while they sit on their ass waiting for another chance to yell "You're doing it wrong!" if we do step in.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.