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If content is king why is EQ2 after 4, yes 4, expansions, still lagging behind WoW after 1?
Xenduli
Member Posts: 654
I stumbled across a blog post yesterday and it made some interesting points. It's a pretty old post, but now that Rise of Kunark expansion has received favourable reviews I am still left wandering why.
Originally posted here --> http://commonsensegamer.com/?p=296
"As Ive stated before, Im quite impressed what SOE has done with EQ2. Theyve taken a game which left the gate stumbling and, before yesterday, turned it into a game which has found a comfortable stride. I say before yesterday because, for those who dont know, GU35 went live yesterday. If EQ2 found their stride before GU35, theyve now found a nice comfortable sprint because this update is very well done. Im not going to get into a review or give you a play-by-play of my evening last night but I did have a very good time with the new zone and race that GU35 gives players.As you may or may not know, I joined Cuppys guild the Mistwalkers over on the AB server. Great group of people who know how to have fun and more importantly, dont take the game nor themselves seriously. Could this be the guild that helps me to 70? Stay tuned. EQ2 is best played with a group of friends. Every time Ive dropped EQ2, it was because I didnt really have a solid group to play with. Jeese we even got Brent into the fold last night so overall weve got a good bunch and the guild continues to grow. Ive got two characters in there now, Belmirus and Beldarion look me up and say hi if you want.Now its time for me to get a little ticked at the MMO community as a whole. When I see updates like this one and consider the amount of content that SOE has put into EQ2, Im left to wonder why WoW is still number 1 after only one expansion. Is it the bad start EQ2 had? Is it SOE fault for not pimping their game more? Is it the WoW communitys fault for being massively simplistic in their requirements for entertainment? Something else maybe? Here we have a game in EQ2 that, 1) looks better than WoW, 2) has more content than WoW, 3) currently has the same barrier to entry as WoW, and yet has a mere fraction of people playing it. I had a reader comment saying that he really wouldnt want to see those numbers and frankly, neither do I. However, I would like to see EQ2 getting more WoW-like credit than its currently getting. There is also the factor that WoW can run on a Commodore 64, so anyone can play it but still, most computers have caught up with standards set in 2004.My wife tried EQ2 a while back when I started playing again after a two year absence .this was before EoF. She stopped playing after about level 12 I think. I asked her why at the time and she said she found things very hard to find within EQ2. Quoting her: The reason that I didnt like EQ2 was that I found many quests lacked the details to be able to easily complete them. I also really disliked the professions like the crafting. When I play, I like to be able to go and just play. Im a very casual gamer. When I asked for direction or help on the main chat, I never got an answer. I was reliant on my husband (if he remembered what to do). As a result, WoW started to look better. Thottbot will tell you how to do any quest and the directions are quite accurate. If I ask a question on the general chat, it is rare that I dont get an answer. The guild for Wow was also great. The biggest down size of Wow is that Im at Level 70 and although I havent finished the quests in the new zone (I still have about 1/3 of them left), my motivation to do them has dropped. Who knows, it might be that the summer is here and I would prefer to be outside. WoW was her first MMO and she was very accustomed to being told how to progress from one thing to the next. Shes use to looking things up in Thottbot and such and she just couldnt make the transition. EQ2 does hold your hand to some extent, but not to the extent that WoW does. Maybe that is still the barrier that players coming from WoW are encountering. Honestly, I think this aspect of EQ2 is as easy as its going to get anything more and EQ2 risks losing its identity and actually becoming WoW. If this is indeed the case, Im not too sure if there is anything SOE can do about it. Best thing for them is to keep on the path they are currently on. Take the time to deliver high quality content and players will eventually come.Regardless, congrats to SOE for GU35 it looks like youve made a welcome addition to the EQ2 universe. Keep it up."
Is it that WoW has become more of a social space now and it doesn't matter what others do, for better or worse, players still gravitate towards other players. Could it still be that everyone is STILL playing WoW on a crappy 6 year old PC. It can't be because WoW is more soloable, WoW's dirty little secret is that everyone wants to be together yet apart [no wander it attracts the emotionally insecure].
Does everyone just have an irrational dislike of SoE, when there IS more communication from the devs and Smedley there's people just waiting to "throw tomatoes", virtual or otherwise.
So, now that EQ2 has a truckload of content and is more solo-friendly and just looks better why is it waaay behind?
No annoying animated GIF here!
Comments
Because EQ2 had not have 40$ mil only for marketing as WoW. Actually I'm pretty sure the EQ2 development was far from that number. Therefore majority of WoW population does not know what Everquest is.
REALITY CHECK
Most wowboys only know wow. Other MMOs would need at least TV commercials to attrect attention of the wowers.
First impressions matter.
EQ2 has vastly, vastly improved since it was released in 2004. Anyone who has managed to peek in over the past year can't help but notice this. However, the first impressions of the game from then were that (1) it was finicky in terms of systems, (2) it was less forgiving in terms of death penalties and (3) it was more group-oriented. EQ2's team has changed the game to address all of these shortcomings, but once a game gets a rep, it's very, very hard to turn that around, especially when you are trying to catch up with a phenomenon like WoW.
In terms of people trying it for the first time now and finding it lacking, my main thought, which is a personal one, is that EQ2's world seems very plastic and uninteresting. It doesn't wrap me up like WoW's world does (and I was not a Warcraft series fan before WoW) -- there is something about EQ2's world that is stiff, plastic-like and uninviting, but that's just me.
because a huge portion of wows initial numbers were first time MMO players that were on bnet and loyal to Blizzard. After they went to wow it was like a snowball effect.
Everywhere you went you heard about how great WoW was and it convinced a lot of other first time MMO players to try it out.
All you heard with EQ2 was this game sucks
For the same reason that many good television series don't attract viewers while American Idol is one of the most popular shows out there. There's no accounting for the taste of the masses, it tends to gravitate towards the lower common denominator.
No one will ever really understand the reasons.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I tried EQ2...once at release and once a few months ago.
I couldn't stand the gameplay either time.
If felt like a well disguised korean grinder to me. The second time around was at least 200% better than it was at release though.
I just don't like the way they put it together. I had TONS more fun in DAOC, and even shadowbane was more fun.
D.
"if content is king, why is eq2 after 4, yes 4, expansions, still lagging behind WoW after 1?"
Well as others have mentioned, the whole Blizzard marketing machine and the millions of pre-exisiting bnet players.
Other then that, EQII isn't all that much fun. Its grinding and not very compelling to play. Grind levels then raid, thats about it. Unfortunately the world doesn't lend itself to virtual style at all, its all linear hunting areas. I hate "zone" game design, it totally robs from any emmersion. But thats my opinion...
(and yes, I have it and I have that new expansion the rise of kunark, my wife gave it to me for Christmas because she hates me or something, so I have played recently)
PvE... Need say nemore?
Futilez - Mature MMORPG Community
Correcting people since birth.
WoW is a fun game , that's why. It has easy functionality , it's easy to learn , it looks cool and attractive and performs well on any kind of computer..
EQ2 was my last Big game
i spent alot of time playing this game.
But already its been 2 years i havent played.
I dont care if they made the game into the best in the world.
When i stop its for ever.
I play MMoRPG because Ill never have a chance to make it big In Real life.
All the Chances That were out there to be rich and powerfull have already been Exploited by others
And Like hell there going to give it up.
If your not there from the start MMorpg Feel very very Much Like Real Life.
Ill wait for the next big game thx you.
because EQ2 sucks and even with all of EQ2 content id still say WoW + TBC combined has even more content WoW is a very huge game and more content does not always = quality. I Played EQ2 during the Echos of faedwar expansion and i still didnt like it. Game felt way to easy and it felt like most of the time i was soloing, unlike WoW where the dungeons are actually hard and most of the time you do need a FULL group to compete in a instance in WoW. IN EQ2 it felt like even most dungeons were soloable with my monk. DIdnt really care for the game at all. Most of the time it also felt like another watered down version of WoW.
Yes because meost other MMO's have PvE too including EQ2
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand
Is it that WoW has become more of a social space now and it doesn't matter what others do, for better or worse, players still gravitate towards other players. Could it still be that everyone is STILL playing WoW on a crappy 6 year old PC. It can't be because WoW is more soloable, WoW's dirty little secret is that everyone wants to be together yet apart [no wander it attracts the emotionally insecure].
Does everyone just have an irrational dislike of SoE, when there IS more communication from the devs and Smedley there's people just waiting to "throw tomatoes", virtual or otherwise.
So, now that EQ2 has a truckload of content and is more solo-friendly and just looks better why is it waaay behind?
1st, I thought EQ2 was boring when I tried it just before it released this new expansion.2nd It may be your opinion that EQ2 has better graphics, but not mine for the type of engine wow uses it looks great,and run good with lots of internet traffic,3 EQ2 charactor Models and some of the npc's like troll,s looked like something a Pencil-Neck Geek might come up with. The game had some nice things about it but to me it was missing feeling,Not to mention the constant thought that what if I stay and get into eq2 and really begin to develop my toon their and after a year or so Warhammer releases and for some reason becomes the next WOW. All of the sudden without warning you get a message from SOE Great and exciting things coming to EQ2, And in a weeks rime SOE completly revamps EQ2 combat system etc to be exactly like Warhammers and fills the game with crap never meant to be in the game. I am sorry but 1 screwing by SOE is enough and no matter how good a game they make will ever get me to play a game even associated with them period. I cannot and will not forgive them for the crap they put to me with Star Wars Galaxies. I suppose I was a little too harsh everyone deserves a second chance and maybe 1 day ill give eq2 another try but most likly not.
I see just because you have many post on the forum, it doesn't sort these kind of replies away.
Yes, EQ2 is PvE only(mostly, with very inbalanced PvP). The reason why WoW > EQ2 sub-wise, is bcuz WoW has a very balanced Players VS Player environment(AKA PvP).
So no matter how much content you add to a game, if you don't have a basis for PvP, you will leave a huge playerbase behind.
Futilez - Mature MMORPG Community
Correcting people since birth.
I know im sounding like a WoW fanboi but im not but i think the way blizzard did WoWs graphic style was great i always thought WoWs graphics style was much better then EQ2 because WoW feels more lively and more intune to what the warcraft universe is about. EQ2 always felt plastic and lifeless.
I think the biggest problem EQ2 faces is the fact that it has too much content.
Even right in this thread we see people who aren't of the explorer type and love to be strung along in a very specific direction. I really don't see how people get lost. Get EQ2map if you're having trouble (there are also quest databases like Thottbot.) Those people who don't like the game tell others that it sucks, which goes and makes up everyone's mind. Why would they waste their time playing something that sucks, right?
Specifically in regards to the difficulty. Really guys, EQ2 is no less difficult than WoW... that's ridiculous. I can think of many instances that are better than anything I played in WoW (more challenging and better atmosphere.)
The crafting system is also not just watching a bar fill up. Which boggles people's minds for some reason.
The PvP in EQ2 is also the best on the market. We're talking stuns, dazes, knock backs, proper tanking, etc. It feels right, and it plays right. No capture the flag here.
I'd say the biggest reason as to why it's behind is because people aren't going to transition entire guilds to EQ2. The vast majority of people in WoW have stayed because of the people they met. They also aren't willing to start something new. Going from a game where you're uhh... doing raids 24/7 to upgrade equipment, and starting back at level 1 in a completely new world is just not something people typically do. People fear change.
Iam sorry but your wrong no way is EQ2 PVP better then WoW i played EQ2 PVP and it was so unbalanced if you played a scout class you owned anything. In WoW WoWs group PVP is extremely balanced. Even there solo PVP is kind of balanced, But if you played EQ2 PVP you know a scout class like swashy/assassin or the other one can own just about ANY one in PVP. Also EQ2 is not hard at all not even harder then WoW i found the elite mobs in EQ2 soloable most of the time including most of the dungeons. Any good duo can solo almost any non raid content in EQ2.
Actually, if you knew anything about the game, you would know that there are a) potions to remove and become immune to stun for a short time, and b) totems that let you detect hidden (both very affordable on the auction house.) Suddenly, your whole argument goes to the toilet, eh? YOU got your ass handed to you, therefore everyone must be in the same boat?
P.S. I routinely handed scouts their ass with my Inquisitor.
how is my whole argument down the toilet i ACTUALLY played EQ2 for a while and scouts could litterally destroy most classes almost all classes. Plus scouts get a stealth that doesnt decrease their speed when moving + Tracking etc scouts own in EQ2 PVP.
Content is king but kings can be tyrants and easily deposed, kings can be arrogant, ugly, hard to get along with or make stupid decisions.
I will again say I've never played WoW - seen plenty of friends play it live & up-close , holds little to no fascination to me , tis too 'easy' to me other than the hard part of time-sink and i just don't have that sort of time when i'd rather solve problems or raise my daughter.
I have played EQ2 and as a few others have noted
1) EQ2 was finicky with systems - who the heck wants that sort of hassle? blizz has usually been good with games/patches and system issues
2) EQ2 graphics though having a higher polygon count , other tangential factors ... looked kind of staid - seriously, just no groove or catchyness to them [apple plays big on catchyness and flash/glam , something that keeps it afloat amongst computer manufacturers besides the fact that now Leopard is unix certified]
3) EQ2 was difficult to solo in ... quite difficult at times
4) EQ2 tried to tell too much story, too intricate in terms of percentage of quests initially
I logged a ton of hours in d2 and d2lod and u know the graphics were not 'great' but the playability was - it was "fun". Content may be king but fun trumps king any day of the week! EQ2 is more like work, WoW was more hack n slash with some bells n whistles - what i loved about d2 was just going in after a 20 hour day or 80 hour week and hacking n slashing without having to think deeply about quests, items, etc
Also mass impetus is great - tough to stop an 800 pound gorilla when everyone else is a lil chimpanzee trying to get at the banana bunch - look at how big MS is compared to every other OS. Once you get a big lead you can pummel your competitors on multiple fronts if you have to(OS, office suite, database,...). Blizz took the ball and ran with it and Joe B. wants to play with his friend Jimmy T online so if they both have WoW accounts and are having fun questing/raiding/pvp-ing they will probably continue to do so - simple law of physics (thank you Isaac Newton)
I may eventually break-down and buy WoW(doubt it though - going to put some time in 2moons and LOTRO) if they ever drop the monthly sub down under $10 - for my mindless mmo/rpg-ing i do GW. I'm presently potty training my toddler and well raiding sure wouldnt work very well right now under those circumstances (hold on, i need 15-30 minutes to get the kiddle to poop or pee... ) too many impatient people - so i can go pick and choose what to do in GW either alone or with a friend or 2 and still have some fun
Fun is what it is all about - probably the same reason vanguard fell flat on its face - trying to complicate matters, toss in the kitchen sink and yet the fun factor isnt that much higher. Forums on game sites are always going to be filled with greedy desires and wishes of uber-features for games, but if you bog down the game with so many complications you really reduce the fan-base you can reach with it.
In other words the KISS principle still reigns supreme
[i'd much rather read a 1 page uncomplicated proof of something in a research paper than a 10 page proof pulling in 20 different areas of mathematics 10 of which i am far from an expert in - would make me want to toss the paper in the trash rather than deal with it]
content is king if kept simple, fun, and you reach a large enough number of people out of the starting gate
otherwise it's just syntactic sugar....
x
xkey was here
It's a common occurance in the tech industry that after messing around with computers for so long that you act like everyone has basic computer skills, ranging from knowing how to navigate explorer, using access, some even have it SOO bad that they think most people know what a database is.
It's the same thing for game reviewers and people who play 'enough' video games, they assume that the average computer has a graphics card some are SOO bad that they assume that most computers have more than 512MB of RAM.
blizzard is one of the only realistic game companies out there, and thus they sadly win the MMO wars the RTS wars and likely what ever other war they want.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
I think it is a combination of factors that keeps people going to WoW instead of EQ2. Part of it is just the snowball factor-- more people play WoW because more people play WoW. It really is an easy entrance point to the genre, which might also set up certain expectations. I know that I came into MMOs via UO and EQ1, so both WoW and EQ2 seem to do a whole lot of hand-holding to me, but if my introduction to what MMOs are "supposed to be" had been WoW, I might think EQ2 was being deliberately difficult.
I can understand what people say when they talk about how unappealing the EQ2 world is, but I think some of that could be remedied with minor seasonal adjustments-- just a little more frosting on the cake, as there is at Frostfell/Christmas time. More surprises would be nice.
I didn't like EQ2 the first time I played it, and I still don't like the tutorial island very much, but the newbie experience has improved greatly since they added Greater Fay/Kelethin and Neriak + newbie zone. If all I had to go on was the Trial of the Isle now, I am not so sure I would buy the game. (I had played on 30 days free account once after the major changes (no more class changes, etc)', but didn't purchase the game at the end of the month. I bought it when EoF was released strictly for the Fae. I was very pleasantly surprised by the Fae newbie experience!) Turning trials into subscriptions and keeping subscriptions rolling may be a trick SOE needs to continue working on.
Also, there's a tiny bit of viral advertising factor with WoW-- I've seen 3 commercials for the game itself with actors in them, a Toyota commercial, and a Coca-Cola commercial that wasn't even in English, all right here on the good old Internet, and I've never gone out looking for WoW videos. Even with my decided disinterest in everything Azeroth, these things crossed my path. People mention them on forums, people send them to me in email... I've gotten more L2 videos than EQ2 videos, for that matter. Noone has ever sent me an EQ2 video.
I played EQ2 on a computer that will turn 7 this year, after a couple of minor upgrades to video and RAM (for about $100 TOTAL). I think the performance has improved since the first time I tried the Trial of the Isle. But who is going to try a game again on the same system after they've decided it doesn't work, especially if they pay to do it? I mean, other than me.
But I am quite happy with the graphical settings set pretty low in EQ2. (I came from EQ1, remember? I just don't play many graphically intense games, so I have nothing to compare it to.) On the other hand, WoW ran fine for me *before* the upgrades, and with the upgrades, it was faster and sharper. WoW had a nice, coherent art style that wasn't all drab and blah. (Too cartoony? That's not even an issue for me, personally. Performance is, though.) At this point, for the graphical settings I am willing to play at, I could go play LoTRO and feel somewhat less behind the curve.
WoW's numbers would make it likely that you'd get WoW's community too. Maybe EQ2's mediocre sales are a blessing in disguise for its players.
...
This is where I draw the line: __________________.
I dont think SOE likes EQ2 any more they have no advertizing/marketing EQ2 at ALL
Maybe its content at release that is king, not content 4 years later?
Also quantity and quality differ. Many people simply don't like EQ2 content for various reasons. Arts, design etc.
"if content is king, why is eq2 after 4, yes 4, expansions, still lagging behind WoW after 1?"
Gameplay is king.
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