There is also a ease-of-use issue. To play a console game, I just pop a disk in and play. To play a PC game, I need to install it and tweak the settings to get the most. And HL2 on my 360 looks as good as HL2 on my PC. Yeah, there are some differences but not large enough for me to care.
Originally posted by Lobotomist A little update PC games sales 2007: World of Warcraft: Burning Crusade (Blizzard Entertainment) - 2.25 million World of Warcraft (Blizzard Entertainment) - 914,000 The Sims 2 Seasons Expansion Pack (EA Maxis) - 433,000 Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (Infinity Ward) 383,000 Command & Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars (EA Los Angeles) - 343,000 Sim City 4 Deluxe (Maxis) - 284,000 The Sims 2 (Maxis) - 281,000 The Sims 2 Bon Voyage Expansion Pack (Maxis) - 271,000 Age of Empires III (Ensemble Studios) - 259,000 The Sims 2 Pets Expansion Pack (Maxis) - 236,000
Console games sales 2007: Halo 3 (Bungie, Microsoft Game Studios, X360) - 4.82 million Wii Play with Wii Remote (Nintendo, Wii) - 4.12 million Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (Infinity Ward, Activision, X360) - 3.04 million Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock (Neversoft, Activision, PS2) - 2.72 million Super Mario Galaxy (Nintendo EAD Tokyo, Nintendo, Wii) - 2.52 million Pokemon Diamond Version (Game Freak, Nintendo, NDS) - 2.48 million Madden NFL 08 (EA Sports, Electronic Arts, PS2) - 1.90 million Guitar Hero II (Harmonix, Activision, PS2) - 1.89 million Assassin's Creed (Ubisoft Montreal, Ubisoft, X360) - 1.87 million Mario Party 8 (Hudson Soft, Wii) - 1.82 million
Need to say more ?
I love when people post these and then say PC gaming is dying.
So 8 hardware platforms outsold 1 hardware platform - big whoop de doo. What do you expect.
These figures tell me the PS3 is dead it didnt even make the list.
When people compare the PC vs Xbox vs PS3 vs Wii vs DS vs PS2 then you can use sales figures to talk about PC gaming being dead.
But comparing PC vs (Xbox + PS3 + PS2 + Wii + DS + PSP) figures is a joke.
Thats the same as saying Ford is dead because they were outsold by (holden + toyota + chrysler + Nissan + Honda + BMW + Mercedes)
As for consoles being cheaper than PC's - I dont think so - add in the cost of that fancy plasma/lcd screen you watching the games on and you will see the PC is cheaper.
Originally posted by Gameloading kotaku.com/gaming/sales-charts/european-sales-charts-316590.php PC gaming is barely dominating in Europe, it certainly does not make up for the losses in the US and Japan to consoles. edit: Here is another one: kotaku.com/gaming/sales-charts/european-sales-charts-311194.php with the console version of Fifa08 outselling the PC version The asian PC gaming market is completely different from the western market. Asian gamers aren't interested in Crysis, Call of Duty 4 or The Orange Box
So looking at your first link - in Germany and Sweden 50% of the Top ten games were on a single platform. Yes you guessed it - the PC. The other top ten games were spread across 7 different platforms.
with the console version of Fifa08 outselling the PC version
The asian PC gaming market is completely different from the western market. Asian gamers aren't interested in Crysis, Call of Duty 4 or The Orange Box
So looking at your first link - in Germany and Sweden 50% of the Top ten games were on a single platform. Yes you guessed it - the PC. The other top ten games were spread across 7 different platforms.
So again the analysis is seriously flawed.
Not really, as the console games are often multiplatform and most importantly, you can get multiple consoles for the price of one gaming PC, and on the second link you'll notice an absence of PC gaming.
The numbers just prove that Europe is not enough to make up for lack of sales in the US when compared to consoles.
I bought my xbox360 for 2 reasons. One is the obvious.....fighting games. These are non-existant on pc so I need a console for that. The other thing is Halo3. I can't play it on PC. Now, my pc has advantages over my console. I can upgrade the shit out of my pc. I can not do so with my xbox360. FPS are dominate on PC..nuff said. MMORPGs are dominate on PC. The only ones on console are piles of crap..horrendous. Each has its advantages but I certainly would not say I use one of the other.
Europe maybe... but who cares about them? lol (joking!)
PC Gaming is alive and healthy. Just look at all the MMOs out there, you cant play any of them on consoles, with the exception of FFXI... that thats just a poorly hacked version of the console game. And I think there might be one other.
Theres several other very popular offline games, like Never Winter Nights 1 & 2, the KotOR series, Oblivion...
So... I dunno where they get this pc gaming is dead nonsense...
You all have PC's in which you probably invested lot of money. Same goes for me.
I post a solid concern voiced lately all over media about dire straits for PC development.
You all get defensive. Like this is some personal attack on your home PC !
Nobody is going to take your PC, dont worry.
There will be games for PC still. Would it not be just STUPID to assume PC game development would just STOP suddenly.
If you read and THINK. The topic is about the fact that companies will be less likely to INVEST in PC gaming. Except for perhaps MMO's. And we all know rate MMO's come out ...1-2 each year
with the console version of Fifa08 outselling the PC version
The asian PC gaming market is completely different from the western market. Asian gamers aren't interested in Crysis, Call of Duty 4 or The Orange Box
So looking at your first link - in Germany and Sweden 50% of the Top ten games were on a single platform. Yes you guessed it - the PC. The other top ten games were spread across 7 different platforms.
So again the analysis is seriously flawed.
Not really, as the console games are often multiplatform and most importantly, you can get multiple consoles for the price of one gaming PC, and on the second link you'll notice an absence of PC gaming.
The numbers just prove that Europe is not enough to make up for lack of sales in the US when compared to consoles.
I can get multiple PC's for the price of one Console too. More importantly I can buy multiple PC games for the price of just one Console game.
History does rather dispute that European sales are not more than adequate for games to ignore the U.S. market completely. Many European best sellers have not even been launched in the U.S. over the years. Many GOTY's. And many more from Eastern Europe have not had the distribution deals to ever penetrate the U.S. market, and yet any number of them have been major successes.
For example. Anything Fifa. Operation Flashpoint, Hidden and Dangerous 2. European sales in any number of games are more than enough to make up for "lost" U.S. sales. In fact they are large enough for any development company to ignore the U.S. market completely. Eve onlines big sales gimmick used to be that there wasn't any American players.
Computer games have been made that have only sold in China. With regards to the Asian market, of course they are intrested in playing Crysis, Halo 3 too. But they can't afford the hardware.
It is amazing how your minds work. You all have PC's in which you probably invested lot of money. Same goes for me. I post a solid concern voiced lately all over media about dire straits for PC development. You all get defensive. Like this is some personal attack on your home PC !
Nobody is going to take your PC, dont worry. There will be games for PC still. Would it not be just STUPID to assume PC game development would just STOP suddenly. If you read and THINK. The topic is about the fact that companies will be less likely to INVEST in PC gaming. Except for perhaps MMO's. And we all know rate MMO's come out ...1-2 each year
Except that title for title the returns on PC game investment are double the returns of Console game investment.
I don't think we will see any enshrined preference from investors, they will treat each case individually.
There are two types of developement approaches. The big corp approach. Market research and the lowest common denominator. Sequels, brandnames and player feedback driven.
And then there is the other type, the entrepreneur developed game.
I have very limited intrest in the first approach. Enjoy COD4, (on any platform you like) I'm playing Savage 2.
Well from a developer point of view - its far easier to develop for a console (except PS3) than the PC as you dont have to deal with different drivers, hardware configurations (except for stupid harddrive less xbox), sound card, 3rd party software etc.
It also means if your game runs fine on the console you have at the office it will run fine for your players.
On the flip-side - the new consoles are designed for shiny graphics and not much else - so you can expect the A.I to suffer as the console doesnt have as much grunt for that.
My personal experience is that I like PC gaming ton's more. I like being able to upgrade, I like sitting at my desk, I like the feel of the input devices, and I think the graphics are better with more options. I also don't mind purchasing newer equipment. I even enjoy the whole shopping experience when purchasing video cards, sound cards, etc. It's fun.
And truth be told, in general I don't much like the console gamers. They play different games than I do. And most of the console games I've played suck to me. And how someone could have the patience to play a FPS on a console is beyond me and will always be.
I've gone to friends houses when they've had these console parties and yeah, I had fun, but not as much fun as when I've been to LAN parties. There was so much more to do at a LAN party. Check out other people's computers, talk about games and how you can make them look better, what kind of upgrades are getting ready to come out, etc. It's a heck of a fun hobby. A lot better to me than just staring at a static box sitting under the television.
with the console version of Fifa08 outselling the PC version
The asian PC gaming market is completely different from the western market. Asian gamers aren't interested in Crysis, Call of Duty 4 or The Orange Box
So looking at your first link - in Germany and Sweden 50% of the Top ten games were on a single platform. Yes you guessed it - the PC. The other top ten games were spread across 7 different platforms.
So again the analysis is seriously flawed.
Not really, as the console games are often multiplatform and most importantly, you can get multiple consoles for the price of one gaming PC, and on the second link you'll notice an absence of PC gaming.
The numbers just prove that Europe is not enough to make up for lack of sales in the US when compared to consoles.
I can get multiple PC's for the price of one Console too. More importantly I can buy multiple PC games for the price of just one Console game.
History does rather dispute that European sales are not more than adequate for games to ignore the U.S. market completely. Many European best sellers have not even been launched in the U.S. over the years. Many GOTY's. And many more from Eastern Europe have not had the distribution deals to ever penetrate the U.S. market, and yet any number of them have been major successes.
For example. Anything Fifa. Operation Flashpoint, Hidden and Dangerous 2. European sales in any number of games are more than enough to make up for "lost" U.S. sales. In fact they are large enough for any development company to ignore the U.S. market completely. Eve onlines big sales gimmick used to be that there wasn't any American players.
Computer games have been made that have only sold in China. With regards to the Asian market, of course they are intrested in playing Crysis, Halo 3 too. But they can't afford the hardware.
No you can't get multiple PC's that can do what an Xbox 360 can do for 270$, a new PC game is 50$, a new Console game is 60$. Unless you refer to illegal business, you're pulling stuff out of your ass. a console is NOT a low end PC like you seem to think, Please educate yourself before posting.
It's funny that you mention Fifa as Fifa on consoles, especialy the Playstation 2 version, massively outsells the PC version worldwide. European sales clearly aren't enough to justify PC development as PC games aren't doing better then console games in Europe, so no, they don't make up for it. And it sure shows, as loads of PC exclusivers are now comming to consoles, and even Bioware is now starting to pay more attention to consoles then to PC's.
the arguement "PC's are much more popular in europe then consoles!" is made up by PC fanatics.
look at the 2nd link I posted. In germany, by far the most PC fanatic country in Europe, the PS2 version of Fifa outsold the PC and the 360 version is only 2 spots below the PC version. In Spain, both the PS2 and the PS3 version of fifa outsold the PC version, with the PC version much lower on the list. even the PSP version outsold the PC version. Brittain combines all platforms but knowing Brittain, the vast majority of sales come from consoles.
Let me guess, you pre-ordered your XBox 360 and believed the salesman when he told you it was more powerful than an Alienware and that when he said the hardware was being sold at a loss, you took that to mean being sold at a loss of thousands of dollars, not a slight loss on the average unit price over a three year period easily compensated by the £10 royalty they add to the price of each game you buy.
Sorry you are still labouring under the impression that the Xb0x 360 is a goliath of processing power. It most certainly is a serious piece of hardware, but not when compared to a £200 Dell. It's still just a mass market toy.
I can get 2 second hand PC's for $270 that do what an Xbox 360 can. Why do you think the 360 is such high end kit compared to a PC? Look up what's under the hood mate. £10 worth of RAM, £15 worth of HDD, £15 worth of CPU, £30 worth of of GFX. I wouldn't allow any of that clobber in my PC's. Not even my mum's PC.
As you say, an XBOX 360 isn't just a cut price PC, it is a games console only. Although it is built using (3 year old) PC architecture, it is much more limited in it's capabilities.
A new PC game is £35 RRP a new console game is £45 RRP. Digitial downloads however start at £15 for the latest titles. And yes, you can pirate games completely free too.
(You probably still can for a consoles too, it is estimated by the NPD that 90% of all U.S. DS owners play pirate games on it, but then they represent an area of the industry that is ultimately doomed by home publishing. It is a bit of a bugbear for the poor blighters).
PC games don't have to sell better than console games to justify development. Just as PS3 games sell worse than PC games but are still developed for.
To justify development all you need is a market.
Given that the 14% of video games that were PC games in the U.S. brought in 29% of the total video game revenue last year, there clearly isn't much point developing console games. They show a poor return on the money.
Oh no, wait a minute 12 billion is still a lot to play for.
3.7 billion is too.
Western Europe is not Europe, it is less than half of it. Your European sales figures are 90% incomplete. You forgot to factor in the other 25 countries. Eastern Europe is a console free zone for example. The developing markets, the big growth area's in the world, are all currently PC zones. (That may well change, console growth is massive).
Here is someting for you to think about, Handhelds sell more games than Consoles. ZOMG doom!
This crap has gotten so off topic it isn't even funny anymore. The entire post was suppose to be about PC game sales being low for 2007. ALL PC gamers know why it was low in 2007.
The facts are simple when it comes to games and gamers with pc vs console. Noone is going to argue the facts.
PC games do some things much better than consoles and Consoles do some things much better than PC.
Here is the break down.
PC OWNS AT : FPS, RTS, and MMO.... That is it. I don't think ANYONE is going to argue that FPS and RTS games were designed for the keyboard and mouse setup and play much faster, smoother, and better on a PC platform. IF someone does try to argue that fact they have obviously never played them on both platforms.
I had a buddy of mine tell me once that FPS games are better on console and he could beat anyone with a controller vs keyboard mouse......
So I played him on Halo using keyboard mouse vs him on controller..... Needless to say he got destroyed and his pride got hurt. I am not even a great Halo player, I just had better accuracy with the mouse then he did with a controller. ANY good/decent FPS player will own a controller user ANY day of the week, we can take the pepsi challenge on this and console FPS user will lose to the keyboard mouse method anytime against gamers who know how to use KB + M.
RTS games are the same way it is MUCH faster and smoother to select your armies/ whatever with a mouse keyboard method making them superior to a console. If you find someone who would dispute this they obviously have no clue what they are saying and need to take the pepsi challenge.
Make them get on a PC hooked up with a controller on USB and play you in C&C or something with you on a keyboard and mouse, and watch the bodies hit the floor.
MMO I don't even feel I need to justify this, with the exception of Final Fantasy... PC owns the market for MMO.
CONSOLES OWN AT : Sports, RPG, Fighting, SideScroller, Single Player Designed (like mario galaxy, assassins creed, darkness.)
You know why Fifa sold better on consoles? Cause Fifa is BETTER on consoles... all sports games are, they are designed around them and for them. Any sports gamer would never dream to dispute the fact that Sports games are WAYYYY better for consoles, hell even Tecmo Super Bowl (SNES) is better than any sports game you will play on PC ( thats pushing it just trying to prove a point).
RPG has stood the test of time on consoles. You will never find greater RPG's or RPG companies than those that create and produce for consoles. Square/Enix the BEST RPG creator in the world (HANDS DOWN TO ME) produce almost ALL games for consoles. Even if you do not like Squares FF series, these guys have made MANY games all great... Xenogears, Mana Series you name it they make it. Square/Enix is not the only producer of GREAT RPG's but the point is these guys make them for consoles and they are all bad ass. PC cannot touch Consoles RPG single player market.
Fighting, yet again consoles rule the day on fighting titles, I think fighting titles also have a great fanbase on the arcade platform... but these eventually all get ported a console anyway. Anyone who will state that fighting games are better for pc are retarded. Excluding the MUGEN PC can't touch console fighters.
Single Player Design I know PC has some single player titles, OVERLORD being a new release that comes to mind as a PC single player game, and guess what OVERLORD also released on console.... Also Overlord is better for the 360 then PC. As it runs faster and smoother on the 360. You won't find games like mario galaxy, the metal gear solid series and any other great SP title for PC. Simply put they are just better for consoles.
Now all this is completely off the base of what the OP was trying to say but these arguments get out of hand about which is better when the facts of each genre are simple. I don't think any true player of both the PC and Consoles will dispute what was just stated here.
Gah, RPGs are better on consoles? Don't make me barf. Stupid JRPGs, with their lame plots, long cutscenes, and ridiculous turn based boring system.
Give me Baldur's Gate 2 any day.
PCs have huge advantages for RPGs. More intense controls. STALKER wouldn't be possible on a console, or it would have to at least be dumbed down. STALKER also owned as an FPS/RPG hybrid. In many ways, better than Bioshock. STALKER: Clear Skies is going to really, really own.
So, here is how the breakdown really is:
PC: FPS, RTS, MMO
Console: Fighting games, Platformers, Sports games
That's basically it. I have my console for fighting games and platformers (nothing is lamer than sports games. NOTHING).
In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
Gah, RPGs are better on consoles? Don't make me barf. Stupid JRPGs, with their lame plots, long cutscenes, and ridiculous turn based boring system.
Give me Baldur's Gate 2 any day.
You would be a minority of RPG gamer, I like baulder's gate, dungeon siege, neverwinter nights, and many other good pc rpg titles.
Fact still remains tho Console RPG's may not be for you, the billions of copies these games have sold over the last 10 years would prove us both wrong that PC RPG's are better than Console ones.
Much as I like the baulder's gate game... which was also on console. To say that japanese rpg's have no plot makes you seem a little well... I wont go there. Any game that would take you over 80 hours to beat obviously has a plot of some kind. I have played most console RPG's all with a unique story, and plot, nice diverse characters, great cut scenes. Nothing to barf over.
PC is only better at MMO & RTS because of the complex control involved.
PC may be better if you are playing competitive FPS.
But FPS is a lot more ENJOYABLE on a console, particularly playing single player campaign. I played Bioshock/HL2 both on 360 & PC. The 360 version is much much better. No hassle, much bigger screen, sitting on a couch and so on.
Technically my PC is outputting better graphics (higher resolution, and you may be able to tell a little bit of difference in the textures if you move really close to the screen), but it really does not matter much.
Yes, mouse aiming is a bit more accurate but since I am slaughtering everything on screen anyway, I prefer the simpler controller because it is more ergonomically and easier to remember which button does what.
This crap has gotten so off topic it isn't even funny anymore. The entire post was suppose to be about PC game sales being low for 2007. ALL PC gamers know why it was low in 2007.
The facts are simple when it comes to games and gamers with pc vs console. Noone is going to argue the facts.
PC games do some things much better than consoles and Consoles do some things much better than PC.
Here is the break down.
PC OWNS AT : FPS, RTS, and MMO.... That is it. I don't think ANYONE is going to argue that FPS and RTS games were designed for the keyboard and mouse setup and play much faster, smoother, and better on a PC platform. IF someone does try to argue that fact they have obviously never played them on both platforms. I had a buddy of mine tell me once that FPS games are better on console and he could beat anyone with a controller vs keyboard mouse...... So I played him on Halo using keyboard mouse vs him on controller..... Needless to say he got destroyed and his pride got hurt. I am not even a great Halo player, I just had better accuracy with the mouse then he did with a controller. ANY good/decent FPS player will own a controller user ANY day of the week, we can take the pepsi challenge on this and console FPS user will lose to the keyboard mouse method anytime against gamers who know how to use KB + M. RTS games are the same way it is MUCH faster and smoother to select your armies/ whatever with a mouse keyboard method making them superior to a console. If you find someone who would dispute this they obviously have no clue what they are saying and need to take the pepsi challenge. Make them get on a PC hooked up with a controller on USB and play you in C&C or something with you on a keyboard and mouse, and watch the bodies hit the floor. MMO I don't even feel I need to justify this, with the exception of Final Fantasy... PC owns the market for MMO.
CONSOLES OWN AT : Sports, RPG, Fighting, SideScroller, Single Player Designed (like mario galaxy, assassins creed, darkness.) You know why Fifa sold better on consoles? Cause Fifa is BETTER on consoles... all sports games are, they are designed around them and for them. Any sports gamer would never dream to dispute the fact that Sports games are WAYYYY better for consoles, hell even Tecmo Super Bowl (SNES) is better than any sports game you will play on PC ( thats pushing it just trying to prove a point). RPG has stood the test of time on consoles. You will never find greater RPG's or RPG companies than those that create and produce for consoles. Square/Enix the BEST RPG creator in the world (HANDS DOWN TO ME) produce almost ALL games for consoles. Even if you do not like Squares FF series, these guys have made MANY games all great... Xenogears, Mana Series you name it they make it. Square/Enix is not the only producer of GREAT RPG's but the point is these guys make them for consoles and they are all bad ass. PC cannot touch Consoles RPG single player market. Fighting, yet again consoles rule the day on fighting titles, I think fighting titles also have a great fanbase on the arcade platform... but these eventually all get ported a console anyway. Anyone who will state that fighting games are better for pc are retarded. Excluding the MUGEN PC can't touch console fighters. Single Player Design I know PC has some single player titles, OVERLORD being a new release that comes to mind as a PC single player game, and guess what OVERLORD also released on console.... Also Overlord is better for the 360 then PC. As it runs faster and smoother on the 360. You won't find games like mario galaxy, the metal gear solid series and any other great SP title for PC. Simply put they are just better for consoles.
Now all this is completely off the base of what the OP was trying to say but these arguments get out of hand about which is better when the facts of each genre are simple. I don't think any true player of both the PC and Consoles will dispute what was just stated here.
Gah, RPGs are better on consoles? Don't make me barf. Stupid JRPGs, with their lame plots, long cutscenes, and ridiculous turn based boring system.
Give me Baldur's Gate 2 any day.
You would be a minority of RPG gamer, I like baulder's gate, dungeon siege, neverwinter nights, and many other good pc rpg titles.
Fact still remains tho Console RPG's may not be for you, the billions of copies these games have sold over the last 10 years would prove us both wrong that PC RPG's are better than Console ones.
Much as I like the baulder's gate game... which was also on console. To say that japanese rpg's have no plot makes you seem a little well... I wont go there. Any game that would take you over 80 hours to beat obviously has a plot of some kind. I have played most console RPG's all with a unique story, and plot, nice diverse characters, great cut scenes. Nothing to barf over.
I notice you left out great, nice, unique gameplay. Because really, I play games to, y'know PLAY GAMES. JRPGs weren't meant to be played. They were meant to be looked at because they're pretty. The gameplay is like smacking your head against a wall.
As for them having no plot, most don't. Sorry, FF7 had a lousy plot. And its generally lauded as one of the best. Just read the wikipedia plot page for FF7, compare it to Baldur's Gate. Or, y'know, play both games. FF7 is confusing, annoying, poorly laid out, presents its plot in fits and spurts (sometimes slamming you face first into a cutscene, other times leaving you to wander for quite some time, with little rhyme or reason). And its one of the better ones. FF10 deliberately tried to annoy you with its plot, I swear.
In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
Console gaming is getting just as pricey as mid level pc's and they still do less. It may only be 400 to 600 dollars for the box but then you gotta have all the 'extra' doo dads that companies like Sony and Microcrap er Microsoft leave off so they can continue to bleed money out of you like extra controllers, an extra internet connection fee (for the xbox360 users), memory cards if you want to take a game to your friends house, etc etc.
Personally I don' t think PC gaming will ever die out it'll just continue to evolve. Though hopefully they'll get back to make games fun instead of just pretty.
No they're not. Computer manufactors sell hardware at a profit, consoles are sold at a loss which is made up through software sales. also Xbox360 and PS3 equal high end pc's, not mid level pc's. PC gaming is dying at worst and turning into a very small niche genre at best. The hardware is to expensive and the features are dropping one by one. Online Multiplayer? Now avaible on Consoles. Mods? Now avaible on consoles.
ofcourse we get the old tiresome argument :"b-but I can upgrade my PC!" yeah well guess what: You're a minority. The vast majority of people are not prepared to pay up 200$ ~ 300$ every 2 years, so you're not going to be the target audience for the vast majority of game developers. Games like Bioshock, Call of Duty 4 and UT3, all considered to be some of the best looking games avaible, are easily done on consoles.
Almost no console games have mods and you still need a pc to make them.
Let me guess, you pre-ordered your XBox 360 and believed the salesman when he told you it was more powerful than an Alienware and that when he said the hardware was being sold at a loss, you took that to mean being sold at a loss of thousands of dollars, not a slight loss on the average unit price over a three year period easily compensated by the £10 royalty they add to the price of each game you buy. Sorry you are still labouring under the impression that the Xb0x 360 is a goliath of processing power. It most certainly is a serious piece of hardware, but not when compared to a £200 Dell. It's still just a mass market toy.
I can get 2 second hand PC's for $270 that do what an Xbox 360 can. Why do you think the 360 is such high end kit compared to a PC? Look up what's under the hood mate. £10 worth of RAM, £15 worth of HDD, £15 worth of CPU, £30 worth of of GFX. I wouldn't allow any of that clobber in my PC's. Not even my mum's PC. As you say, an XBOX 360 isn't just a cut price PC, it is a games console only. Although it is built using (3 year old) PC architecture, it is much more limited in it's capabilities.
A new PC game is £35 RRP a new console game is £45 RRP. Digitial downloads however start at £15 for the latest titles. And yes, you can pirate games completely free too. (You probably still can for a consoles too, it is estimated by the NPD that 90% of all U.S. DS owners play pirate games on it, but then they represent an area of the industry that is ultimately doomed by home publishing. It is a bit of a bugbear for the poor blighters).
PC games don't have to sell better than console games to justify development. Just as PS3 games sell worse than PC games but are still developed for. To justify development all you need is a market. Given that the 14% of video games that were PC games in the U.S. brought in 29% of the total video game revenue last year, there clearly isn't much point developing console games. They show a poor return on the money. Oh no, wait a minute 12 billion is still a lot to play for.
3.7 billion is too.
Western Europe is not Europe, it is less than half of it. Your European sales figures are 90% incomplete. You forgot to factor in the other 25 countries. Eastern Europe is a console free zone for example. The developing markets, the big growth area's in the world, are all currently PC zones. (That may well change, console growth is massive).
Here is someting for you to think about, Handhelds sell more games than Consoles. ZOMG doom!
Actually I prefer to look at the actual facts instead of your random chatter.
It's funny that the vast majority of PC games that require a high end PC are avaible on consoles..with no dumbing down whatsoever, isn't it? With the exception of Crysis, there currently isn't anything out on the market that couldn't be done on consoles. A few months ago, I was looking for a PC. if I wanted a PC that was able to run Bioshock well, I had to fork over 600$ for a PC. This is the average price for a PC that can run Bioshock well. for 270$, I can get an Xbox360 that runs Bioshock almost just as well as high settings on PC. I can't even get the most modern video card for that money.
Also the loss on consoles sold is often hundreds of dollars. I believe when the PS3 was first release, the manufactor price was around 800$ when the PS3 went for sale for 600$. that's a difference of a wooping 200$.
I can show you another one, I paid 1200$ for the PC I'm currently using. this again was the average store price for a computer of this kind. Now I bought this computer early 2006, and the video card in this thing is actually worse then the one in the Xbox360 and it certainly can't handle the games the 360 can.
It just shows how expensive full desktop pc's are compared to console counterparts.
Sure Crysis looks really nice...but it's just one game.
Off the top of my head, WoW, Enemy Territiory, UT3, Joint operations, Armed Assault, Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 1&2, Dawn of War, Supreme Commander, Fear, Half life 2, any of the battlefiled games and every multiplayer game that hosts more than 8 players of which there are hundreds.
As far as I know, none of the top end PC games can be ported to console. Which is why they haven't been. You get total remakes of popular brandnames made by completely different companies on completely different game engines.
We on the other hand get direct ports of Console games, because our platforms specs can handle it.
Bioshock won't work nicely on any PC cheap or expensive. It's a port. It will always lag. If you want to play Bioshock, buy an Xbox 360.
Essentially the games that won;t work on consoles are those that need a lot of processing, i.e that can host many players, or manage lots of AI.
Those that need lots of RAM, ie large maps or hosting lots of players (16+).
Those that have high resolution graphics using textures > 128K or last 2 generation SFX. (Triple screen, head tracking, bla bla bla).
Those that use EAX sound.
If you want to buy a PC just to play Bioshock, you don;t need a new one, try Ebay. 512 RAM and a 256 VRAM card plus onboard sound will do you fine.
Originally posted by n25philly Almost no console games have mods and you still need a pc to make them.
But most people don't make or play mods. There are so MANY console FPS that I really don't have time to go through all the time, not to mentioned amateurish mods.
Comments
PC gaming is barely dominating in Europe, it certainly does not make up for the losses in the US and Japan to consoles.
edit:
Here is another one:
kotaku.com/gaming/sales-charts/european-sales-charts-311194.php
with the console version of Fifa08 outselling the PC version
The asian PC gaming market is completely different from the western market. Asian gamers aren't interested in Crysis, Call of Duty 4 or The Orange Box
I don' t think it is only about machine spec.
There is also a ease-of-use issue. To play a console game, I just pop a disk in and play. To play a PC game, I need to install it and tweak the settings to get the most. And HL2 on my 360 looks as good as HL2 on my PC. Yeah, there are some differences but not large enough for me to care.
I love when people post these and then say PC gaming is dying.
So 8 hardware platforms outsold 1 hardware platform - big whoop de doo. What do you expect.
These figures tell me the PS3 is dead it didnt even make the list.
When people compare the PC vs Xbox vs PS3 vs Wii vs DS vs PS2 then you can use sales figures to talk about PC gaming being dead.
But comparing PC vs (Xbox + PS3 + PS2 + Wii + DS + PSP) figures is a joke.
Thats the same as saying Ford is dead because they were outsold by (holden + toyota + chrysler + Nissan + Honda + BMW + Mercedes)
As for consoles being cheaper than PC's - I dont think so - add in the cost of that fancy plasma/lcd screen you watching the games on and you will see the PC is cheaper.
So looking at your first link - in Germany and Sweden 50% of the Top ten games were on a single platform. Yes you guessed it - the PC. The other top ten games were spread across 7 different platforms.
So again the analysis is seriously flawed.
So looking at your first link - in Germany and Sweden 50% of the Top ten games were on a single platform. Yes you guessed it - the PC. The other top ten games were spread across 7 different platforms.
So again the analysis is seriously flawed.
Not really, as the console games are often multiplatform and most importantly, you can get multiple consoles for the price of one gaming PC, and on the second link you'll notice an absence of PC gaming.
The numbers just prove that Europe is not enough to make up for lack of sales in the US when compared to consoles.
I bought my xbox360 for 2 reasons. One is the obvious.....fighting games. These are non-existant on pc so I need a console for that. The other thing is Halo3. I can't play it on PC. Now, my pc has advantages over my console. I can upgrade the shit out of my pc. I can not do so with my xbox360. FPS are dominate on PC..nuff said. MMORPGs are dominate on PC. The only ones on console are piles of crap..horrendous. Each has its advantages but I certainly would not say I use one of the other.
Europe maybe... but who cares about them? lol (joking!)
PC Gaming is alive and healthy. Just look at all the MMOs out there, you cant play any of them on consoles, with the exception of FFXI... that thats just a poorly hacked version of the console game. And I think there might be one other.
Theres several other very popular offline games, like Never Winter Nights 1 & 2, the KotOR series, Oblivion...
So... I dunno where they get this pc gaming is dead nonsense...
It is amazing how your minds work.
You all have PC's in which you probably invested lot of money. Same goes for me.
I post a solid concern voiced lately all over media about dire straits for PC development.
You all get defensive. Like this is some personal attack on your home PC !
Nobody is going to take your PC, dont worry.
There will be games for PC still. Would it not be just STUPID to assume PC game development would just STOP suddenly.
If you read and THINK. The topic is about the fact that companies will be less likely to INVEST in PC gaming. Except for perhaps MMO's. And we all know rate MMO's come out ...1-2 each year
So looking at your first link - in Germany and Sweden 50% of the Top ten games were on a single platform. Yes you guessed it - the PC. The other top ten games were spread across 7 different platforms.
So again the analysis is seriously flawed.
Not really, as the console games are often multiplatform and most importantly, you can get multiple consoles for the price of one gaming PC, and on the second link you'll notice an absence of PC gaming.
The numbers just prove that Europe is not enough to make up for lack of sales in the US when compared to consoles.
I can get multiple PC's for the price of one Console too. More importantly I can buy multiple PC games for the price of just one Console game.
History does rather dispute that European sales are not more than adequate for games to ignore the U.S. market completely. Many European best sellers have not even been launched in the U.S. over the years. Many GOTY's. And many more from Eastern Europe have not had the distribution deals to ever penetrate the U.S. market, and yet any number of them have been major successes.
For example. Anything Fifa. Operation Flashpoint, Hidden and Dangerous 2. European sales in any number of games are more than enough to make up for "lost" U.S. sales. In fact they are large enough for any development company to ignore the U.S. market completely. Eve onlines big sales gimmick used to be that there wasn't any American players.
Computer games have been made that have only sold in China. With regards to the Asian market, of course they are intrested in playing Crysis, Halo 3 too. But they can't afford the hardware.
Except that title for title the returns on PC game investment are double the returns of Console game investment.
I don't think we will see any enshrined preference from investors, they will treat each case individually.
There are two types of developement approaches. The big corp approach. Market research and the lowest common denominator. Sequels, brandnames and player feedback driven.
And then there is the other type, the entrepreneur developed game.
I have very limited intrest in the first approach. Enjoy COD4, (on any platform you like) I'm playing Savage 2.
Well from a developer point of view - its far easier to develop for a console (except PS3) than the PC as you dont have to deal with different drivers, hardware configurations (except for stupid harddrive less xbox), sound card, 3rd party software etc.
It also means if your game runs fine on the console you have at the office it will run fine for your players.
On the flip-side - the new consoles are designed for shiny graphics and not much else - so you can expect the A.I to suffer as the console doesnt have as much grunt for that.
I don't care what's selling the most.
My personal experience is that I like PC gaming ton's more. I like being able to upgrade, I like sitting at my desk, I like the feel of the input devices, and I think the graphics are better with more options. I also don't mind purchasing newer equipment. I even enjoy the whole shopping experience when purchasing video cards, sound cards, etc. It's fun.
And truth be told, in general I don't much like the console gamers. They play different games than I do. And most of the console games I've played suck to me. And how someone could have the patience to play a FPS on a console is beyond me and will always be.
I've gone to friends houses when they've had these console parties and yeah, I had fun, but not as much fun as when I've been to LAN parties. There was so much more to do at a LAN party. Check out other people's computers, talk about games and how you can make them look better, what kind of upgrades are getting ready to come out, etc. It's a heck of a fun hobby. A lot better to me than just staring at a static box sitting under the television.
That being said though, I LOVE MY Wii !!!!
===============================
So looking at your first link - in Germany and Sweden 50% of the Top ten games were on a single platform. Yes you guessed it - the PC. The other top ten games were spread across 7 different platforms.
So again the analysis is seriously flawed.
Not really, as the console games are often multiplatform and most importantly, you can get multiple consoles for the price of one gaming PC, and on the second link you'll notice an absence of PC gaming.
The numbers just prove that Europe is not enough to make up for lack of sales in the US when compared to consoles.
I can get multiple PC's for the price of one Console too. More importantly I can buy multiple PC games for the price of just one Console game.
History does rather dispute that European sales are not more than adequate for games to ignore the U.S. market completely. Many European best sellers have not even been launched in the U.S. over the years. Many GOTY's. And many more from Eastern Europe have not had the distribution deals to ever penetrate the U.S. market, and yet any number of them have been major successes.
For example. Anything Fifa. Operation Flashpoint, Hidden and Dangerous 2. European sales in any number of games are more than enough to make up for "lost" U.S. sales. In fact they are large enough for any development company to ignore the U.S. market completely. Eve onlines big sales gimmick used to be that there wasn't any American players.
Computer games have been made that have only sold in China. With regards to the Asian market, of course they are intrested in playing Crysis, Halo 3 too. But they can't afford the hardware.
No you can't get multiple PC's that can do what an Xbox 360 can do for 270$, a new PC game is 50$, a new Console game is 60$. Unless you refer to illegal business, you're pulling stuff out of your ass. a console is NOT a low end PC like you seem to think, Please educate yourself before posting.
It's funny that you mention Fifa as Fifa on consoles, especialy the Playstation 2 version, massively outsells the PC version worldwide. European sales clearly aren't enough to justify PC development as PC games aren't doing better then console games in Europe, so no, they don't make up for it. And it sure shows, as loads of PC exclusivers are now comming to consoles, and even Bioware is now starting to pay more attention to consoles then to PC's.
the arguement "PC's are much more popular in europe then consoles!" is made up by PC fanatics.
look at the 2nd link I posted. In germany, by far the most PC fanatic country in Europe, the PS2 version of Fifa outsold the PC and the 360 version is only 2 spots below the PC version. In Spain, both the PS2 and the PS3 version of fifa outsold the PC version, with the PC version much lower on the list. even the PSP version outsold the PC version. Brittain combines all platforms but knowing Brittain, the vast majority of sales come from consoles.
Let me guess, you pre-ordered your XBox 360 and believed the salesman when he told you it was more powerful than an Alienware and that when he said the hardware was being sold at a loss, you took that to mean being sold at a loss of thousands of dollars, not a slight loss on the average unit price over a three year period easily compensated by the £10 royalty they add to the price of each game you buy.
Sorry you are still labouring under the impression that the Xb0x 360 is a goliath of processing power. It most certainly is a serious piece of hardware, but not when compared to a £200 Dell. It's still just a mass market toy.
I can get 2 second hand PC's for $270 that do what an Xbox 360 can. Why do you think the 360 is such high end kit compared to a PC? Look up what's under the hood mate. £10 worth of RAM, £15 worth of HDD, £15 worth of CPU, £30 worth of of GFX. I wouldn't allow any of that clobber in my PC's. Not even my mum's PC.
As you say, an XBOX 360 isn't just a cut price PC, it is a games console only. Although it is built using (3 year old) PC architecture, it is much more limited in it's capabilities.
A new PC game is £35 RRP a new console game is £45 RRP. Digitial downloads however start at £15 for the latest titles. And yes, you can pirate games completely free too.
(You probably still can for a consoles too, it is estimated by the NPD that 90% of all U.S. DS owners play pirate games on it, but then they represent an area of the industry that is ultimately doomed by home publishing. It is a bit of a bugbear for the poor blighters).
PC games don't have to sell better than console games to justify development. Just as PS3 games sell worse than PC games but are still developed for.
To justify development all you need is a market.
Given that the 14% of video games that were PC games in the U.S. brought in 29% of the total video game revenue last year, there clearly isn't much point developing console games. They show a poor return on the money.
Oh no, wait a minute 12 billion is still a lot to play for.
3.7 billion is too.
Western Europe is not Europe, it is less than half of it. Your European sales figures are 90% incomplete. You forgot to factor in the other 25 countries. Eastern Europe is a console free zone for example. The developing markets, the big growth area's in the world, are all currently PC zones. (That may well change, console growth is massive).
Here is someting for you to think about, Handhelds sell more games than Consoles. ZOMG doom!
This crap has gotten so off topic it isn't even funny anymore. The entire post was suppose to be about PC game sales being low for 2007. ALL PC gamers know why it was low in 2007.
The facts are simple when it comes to games and gamers with pc vs console. Noone is going to argue the facts.
PC games do some things much better than consoles and Consoles do some things much better than PC.
Here is the break down.
PC OWNS AT : FPS, RTS, and MMO.... That is it. I don't think ANYONE is going to argue that FPS and RTS games were designed for the keyboard and mouse setup and play much faster, smoother, and better on a PC platform. IF someone does try to argue that fact they have obviously never played them on both platforms.
I had a buddy of mine tell me once that FPS games are better on console and he could beat anyone with a controller vs keyboard mouse......
So I played him on Halo using keyboard mouse vs him on controller..... Needless to say he got destroyed and his pride got hurt. I am not even a great Halo player, I just had better accuracy with the mouse then he did with a controller. ANY good/decent FPS player will own a controller user ANY day of the week, we can take the pepsi challenge on this and console FPS user will lose to the keyboard mouse method anytime against gamers who know how to use KB + M.
RTS games are the same way it is MUCH faster and smoother to select your armies/ whatever with a mouse keyboard method making them superior to a console. If you find someone who would dispute this they obviously have no clue what they are saying and need to take the pepsi challenge.
Make them get on a PC hooked up with a controller on USB and play you in C&C or something with you on a keyboard and mouse, and watch the bodies hit the floor.
MMO I don't even feel I need to justify this, with the exception of Final Fantasy... PC owns the market for MMO.
CONSOLES OWN AT : Sports, RPG, Fighting, SideScroller, Single Player Designed (like mario galaxy, assassins creed, darkness.)
You know why Fifa sold better on consoles? Cause Fifa is BETTER on consoles... all sports games are, they are designed around them and for them. Any sports gamer would never dream to dispute the fact that Sports games are WAYYYY better for consoles, hell even Tecmo Super Bowl (SNES) is better than any sports game you will play on PC ( thats pushing it just trying to prove a point).
RPG has stood the test of time on consoles. You will never find greater RPG's or RPG companies than those that create and produce for consoles. Square/Enix the BEST RPG creator in the world (HANDS DOWN TO ME) produce almost ALL games for consoles. Even if you do not like Squares FF series, these guys have made MANY games all great... Xenogears, Mana Series you name it they make it. Square/Enix is not the only producer of GREAT RPG's but the point is these guys make them for consoles and they are all bad ass. PC cannot touch Consoles RPG single player market.
Fighting, yet again consoles rule the day on fighting titles, I think fighting titles also have a great fanbase on the arcade platform... but these eventually all get ported a console anyway. Anyone who will state that fighting games are better for pc are retarded. Excluding the MUGEN PC can't touch console fighters.
Single Player Design I know PC has some single player titles, OVERLORD being a new release that comes to mind as a PC single player game, and guess what OVERLORD also released on console.... Also Overlord is better for the 360 then PC. As it runs faster and smoother on the 360. You won't find games like mario galaxy, the metal gear solid series and any other great SP title for PC. Simply put they are just better for consoles.
Now all this is completely off the base of what the OP was trying to say but these arguments get out of hand about which is better when the facts of each genre are simple. I don't think any true player of both the PC and Consoles will dispute what was just stated here.
Gah, RPGs are better on consoles? Don't make me barf. Stupid JRPGs, with their lame plots, long cutscenes, and ridiculous turn based boring system.
Give me Baldur's Gate 2 any day.
PCs have huge advantages for RPGs. More intense controls. STALKER wouldn't be possible on a console, or it would have to at least be dumbed down. STALKER also owned as an FPS/RPG hybrid. In many ways, better than Bioshock. STALKER: Clear Skies is going to really, really own.
So, here is how the breakdown really is:
PC: FPS, RTS, MMO
Console: Fighting games, Platformers, Sports games
That's basically it. I have my console for fighting games and platformers (nothing is lamer than sports games. NOTHING).
In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
-Thomas Jefferson
You would be a minority of RPG gamer, I like baulder's gate, dungeon siege, neverwinter nights, and many other good pc rpg titles.
Fact still remains tho Console RPG's may not be for you, the billions of copies these games have sold over the last 10 years would prove us both wrong that PC RPG's are better than Console ones.
Much as I like the baulder's gate game... which was also on console. To say that japanese rpg's have no plot makes you seem a little well... I wont go there. Any game that would take you over 80 hours to beat obviously has a plot of some kind. I have played most console RPG's all with a unique story, and plot, nice diverse characters, great cut scenes. Nothing to barf over.
PC is only better at MMO & RTS because of the complex control involved.
PC may be better if you are playing competitive FPS.
But FPS is a lot more ENJOYABLE on a console, particularly playing single player campaign. I played Bioshock/HL2 both on 360 & PC. The 360 version is much much better. No hassle, much bigger screen, sitting on a couch and so on.
Technically my PC is outputting better graphics (higher resolution, and you may be able to tell a little bit of difference in the textures if you move really close to the screen), but it really does not matter much.
Yes, mouse aiming is a bit more accurate but since I am slaughtering everything on screen anyway, I prefer the simpler controller because it is more ergonomically and easier to remember which button does what.
Halo has mouse & Keyboard support? O.o
You would be a minority of RPG gamer, I like baulder's gate, dungeon siege, neverwinter nights, and many other good pc rpg titles.
Fact still remains tho Console RPG's may not be for you, the billions of copies these games have sold over the last 10 years would prove us both wrong that PC RPG's are better than Console ones.
Much as I like the baulder's gate game... which was also on console. To say that japanese rpg's have no plot makes you seem a little well... I wont go there. Any game that would take you over 80 hours to beat obviously has a plot of some kind. I have played most console RPG's all with a unique story, and plot, nice diverse characters, great cut scenes. Nothing to barf over.
I notice you left out great, nice, unique gameplay. Because really, I play games to, y'know PLAY GAMES. JRPGs weren't meant to be played. They were meant to be looked at because they're pretty. The gameplay is like smacking your head against a wall.As for them having no plot, most don't. Sorry, FF7 had a lousy plot. And its generally lauded as one of the best. Just read the wikipedia plot page for FF7, compare it to Baldur's Gate. Or, y'know, play both games. FF7 is confusing, annoying, poorly laid out, presents its plot in fits and spurts (sometimes slamming you face first into a cutscene, other times leaving you to wander for quite some time, with little rhyme or reason). And its one of the better ones. FF10 deliberately tried to annoy you with its plot, I swear.
In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
-Thomas Jefferson
No they're not. Computer manufactors sell hardware at a profit, consoles are sold at a loss which is made up through software sales. also Xbox360 and PS3 equal high end pc's, not mid level pc's. PC gaming is dying at worst and turning into a very small niche genre at best. The hardware is to expensive and the features are dropping one by one. Online Multiplayer? Now avaible on Consoles. Mods? Now avaible on consoles.
ofcourse we get the old tiresome argument :"b-but I can upgrade my PC!" yeah well guess what: You're a minority. The vast majority of people are not prepared to pay up 200$ ~ 300$ every 2 years, so you're not going to be the target audience for the vast majority of game developers. Games like Bioshock, Call of Duty 4 and UT3, all considered to be some of the best looking games avaible, are easily done on consoles.
Almost no console games have mods and you still need a pc to make them.
member of imminst.org
There are plenty of excellent RPG's on console.
Actually I prefer to look at the actual facts instead of your random chatter.
It's funny that the vast majority of PC games that require a high end PC are avaible on consoles..with no dumbing down whatsoever, isn't it? With the exception of Crysis, there currently isn't anything out on the market that couldn't be done on consoles. A few months ago, I was looking for a PC. if I wanted a PC that was able to run Bioshock well, I had to fork over 600$ for a PC. This is the average price for a PC that can run Bioshock well. for 270$, I can get an Xbox360 that runs Bioshock almost just as well as high settings on PC. I can't even get the most modern video card for that money.
Also the loss on consoles sold is often hundreds of dollars. I believe when the PS3 was first release, the manufactor price was around 800$ when the PS3 went for sale for 600$. that's a difference of a wooping 200$.
I can show you another one, I paid 1200$ for the PC I'm currently using. this again was the average store price for a computer of this kind. Now I bought this computer early 2006, and the video card in this thing is actually worse then the one in the Xbox360 and it certainly can't handle the games the 360 can.
It just shows how expensive full desktop pc's are compared to console counterparts.
Sure Crysis looks really nice...but it's just one game.
Off the top of my head, WoW, Enemy Territiory, UT3, Joint operations, Armed Assault, Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 1&2, Dawn of War, Supreme Commander, Fear, Half life 2, any of the battlefiled games and every multiplayer game that hosts more than 8 players of which there are hundreds.
As far as I know, none of the top end PC games can be ported to console. Which is why they haven't been. You get total remakes of popular brandnames made by completely different companies on completely different game engines.
We on the other hand get direct ports of Console games, because our platforms specs can handle it.
Bioshock won't work nicely on any PC cheap or expensive. It's a port. It will always lag. If you want to play Bioshock, buy an Xbox 360.
Essentially the games that won;t work on consoles are those that need a lot of processing, i.e that can host many players, or manage lots of AI.
Those that need lots of RAM, ie large maps or hosting lots of players (16+).
Those that have high resolution graphics using textures > 128K or last 2 generation SFX. (Triple screen, head tracking, bla bla bla).
Those that use EAX sound.
If you want to buy a PC just to play Bioshock, you don;t need a new one, try Ebay. 512 RAM and a 256 VRAM card plus onboard sound will do you fine.
But most people don't make or play mods. There are so MANY console FPS that I really don't have time to go through all the time, not to mentioned amateurish mods.