i m not so sure if china has much more freedom to screw with people than america these days . personally i think china has every right to do what it wants in its own borders short of human rights violations . just as america has the right to deny its people free unviersal healthcare . i personally think this is a move to protect its people from the sweat shop conditions and long hours that some gold farmers endure or to limit the hours children play . thats a good thing in my book .
Yeah I wish the Gov. had told me when I could do stuff when I was in college.
Perhaps you should move there.
no i m quite happy being in the uk with our decent heathcare ,unbiased news and balanced world view .(i could do without the rain though) i would nt want to be in either china or the usa . both of which are extremes one capitalist that does nt look after its poor , the other communist that does but does nt repect personal freedoms .
MMO related neglect doesn't only happen China, it just happens differently.
In China the gamers are putting only themselves at risk, in America and Korea, they are putting their children at risk. Does no one remember the couple in the US playing D&DO that neglected their 2 children, 11months and 22 months old, to play their game? They let them almost starve to death and lay around in cat piss, while they played and even held down their jobs. And while they were eating (pictures show they were both well fed) and using a $50,000 dollar inheritance to buy top-notch gaming rigs and apparently a LARGE flat panel T.V, their 2 year old didn't know how to walk, and their 1 year old daughter, who weighed only 10lbs was being used as a cat bathroom (her hair was so matted up with the cat urine that it had to be shaved off) The 2 year old son had a severe genital infection, and the 1 year old girl have a severe mouth infection. Both we're near death from starvation. Then you have the man in florida that put his 9month old baby in a UTILITY CLOSET because the crying was bothering him while he was playing Everquest, the baby eventually stopped crying when it stopped breathing and died...., or the woman in Arizona who left her 3 year old daughter to die locked in a car on a hot day while she went to play WoW at a internet cafe, that she could have brought her daughter into! In korea recently a couple left their 4 month old daughter at home alone while they went for a marathon gaming session on WoW. She suffocated while they were gone. They responded to it by saying , "We were thinking of playing for just an hour or two and returning home like usual, but the game took longer that day." The term usual there strikes hard, because apparently they left her alone on a regular basis! Even more shocking? The childs grandmother just lived upstairs, they could have taken and left their daughter there under her supervision.
Obviously there is something going on with MMO's WORLD WIDE that they are triggering an addiction other games are not, and some of these people severely need mental help that no one is willing to recognize and give them.
Originally posted by Amy571 Obviously there is something going on with MMO's WORLD WIDE that they are triggering an addiction other games are not, and some of these people severely need mental help that no one is willing to recognize and give them.
Yes, they can encourage addictive behvaior because they are very escapist. Anything that provides people with a reliable, durable escape from life will be turned into an addiction by some % of the population -- MMOs are, in that sense, very much like drugs or alcohol or shopping or gambling or sex or anything else that provides a reliable and durable escape from life. Throwing more attention at the issue isn't going to solve the addiction problems any more than it does with any other addictive activity or substance -- people who are looking for a reliable escape will find their escape, whether it is in WoW or the local bar.
i live in China, i will tell you the truth, my english is limited though. i think many childrenthey including me lack of self-control, sometimes they play games very late, and are not willing to go to school, study, sleep, ...so it's not good for their health and future. even in university , many classmates of mine, they play games like their major is game...they skip classes, they are so addicited to games.... so the government enact some law to help these children. however in China you can still play when you want to play....because the law is one thing...to stick to the law is another thing.... it's not a matter of regime...dudes....by the way , i like NBA and American Idol..my email [email protected]
An excellent example of the brainwashing you get in China. Goverment tells you what to do and you think it is to "help" you.
Sad.
again thats something that could be applied to a lot of americans . theres a distinct lack of foriegn news in the usa and stations like fox news follow biased right wing agenda .people in glass houses should nt throw stones . chinese children are no more brainwashed than you are
No, really, he's right. We don't need the government telling us what to do, like don't drive without a seatbelt, don't smoke pot, don't drink before your 21, don't show your bewbies in public. God, America would suck if the Government said we couldn't do those things, or if it tried to brainwash us into thinking that allowing gays to marry will spell the end of civilization as we know it.
Seriously, we don't need the Government telling us what we should and should not do. That's why we have televangelists and celebrity scientologists.
____________________________________________ im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
Its no different from banning alcohol from people under 21.
I honestly hope you're sarcastic, but I have a funny feeling you're not.
Drinking causes deaths. It causes auto-mobile accidents. It causes addictions. It causes obesity, if not controlled.
MMOs cannot within themselves kill people. They can't cause auto mobile accidents. They can become addictive and are an outlet for obesity if people aren't wise about playing.
So, there is a big difference, and I must disagree with you.
Blessings,
Strange then, how most European countries seem to do just fine with loosely enforced 18 year old drinking ages (or less).
PS: Drinking does not cause automobile accidents. Drunk Driving does. And drinking is far less likely to cause obesity (especially in people under 21) than McDonalds....but you don't see anyone trying to ban McDonalds.
____________________________________________ im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
They do not tell you in what way fatigue is deadly. I will - if a person suffering fatigue is in a position that endangers his/her life then it is possible that they may die. For example: Some one falls asleep while driving a car. Not someone sitting down at a keyboard.
Pardon me as I do not bow to your obviously vast wisdom, but I'd prefer to have a professional on the subject tell us seeing as you have yet to cite any sources to back up your expounding.
Stanley Coren, from his book Sleep Thieves, chapter 15, page 170:
"To see the link between the immune system and sleep a little better, let's go back to a mystery that we left unsolved earlier. You probably recall that I described a series of studies by Dr. Allan Rechtschaffen in which rats were prevented from sleeping and began to lose weight after a few weeks of this treatment. Next, they lost their ability to regulate their body temperature; they then simply died. When Rechtschaffen's research team looked for the reasons for these deaths, they could find nothing obviously wrong in the organs, blood, or urine of these rats. What had killed them?
A possible answer to this mystery was provided by Dr. Carol Everson, a senior staff fellow at the National Institute of Mental Health at Bethesda, Maryland. Everson had been a student of Rechtschaffen's and noticed that the rats that died of the sleep deprivation looked very much like cancer patients whose bodies had been weakened either by chemotherapy or some form of wasting away caused by the disease itself. When cancer patients enter the final stages of the disease, they are often hit with many secondary infections simply because their overtaxed immune system is now failing and they can no longer fight off the potential invaders. Thus, it is not unusual for the final cause of death in a cancer patient to be some infection rather than the cancer itself. This led Everson to the hypothesis that perhaps the sleep-deprived rats were actually infected with something. When Everson did a new series of tests, she found that the sleep-deprived rats had died from bacterial infections of the blood. Perhaps the most interesting part of these findings is that the fatal bacteria were strains that rats come into contact with every day. These common microbes usually do not cause disease because the immune systems usually is quite aggressive in cleaning up and eliminating them when they assault the body. What seems to have happened in the sleep-deprived rats is a complete crashing of their immune system. Because their resistance was down, their body became prey to infectious microorganisms that normally don't stand a chance of passing its defenses."
And so ironically, a person could die sitting there in their office chair. After all, if they aren't stopping to sleep, do you honestly think they're going to stop and shower to get rid of all those nasty bacteria? Or take the time to bleach their keyboard? I don't.
I'll approach the rest of your post later. At the moment I, ironically, need some sleep.
~ A Girl Disappearing
~~~~~ "Big surprise... there was no protection by this urban light..."
Look at it this way, there are no real benefits from sitting on your butt in front of a computer playing MMOs. (Dont even try to feed me that "it works your hand eye coordination" garbage either.)
Im all for freedom to do as you please dont get me wrong. Im a born and bred midwestern guy, but I can see how a government might worry that its youth are engaging in an activity that really provides no positive benefits.
I personally dont let my kids play MMOs for more than an hour or two a day. If more parents took a bit more responsibility and kept their kids MMO time reasonably balanced with other activities, Im all for em. However we all know people let their kids go overboard, for whatever reason, but thats a concern of parents in general, not the government. Glad I dont live in China.
i live in China, i will tell you the truth, my english is limited though. i think many childrenthey including me lack of self-control, sometimes they play games very late, and are not willing to go to school, study, sleep, ...so it's not good for their health and future. even in university , many classmates of mine, they play games like their major is game...they skip classes, they are so addicited to games.... so the government enact some law to help these children. however in China you can still play when you want to play....because the law is one thing...to stick to the law is another thing.... it's not a matter of regime...dudes....by the way , i like NBA and American Idol..my email [email protected]
An excellent example of the brainwashing you get in China. Goverment tells you what to do and you think it is to "help" you.
Sad.
again thats something that could be applied to a lot of americans . theres a distinct lack of foriegn news in the usa and stations like fox news follow biased right wing agenda .people in glass houses should nt throw stones . chinese children are no more brainwashed than you are
You wouldn't look half as stupid if you'd at least learn how to punctuate.
Hail Neo, full of pwnage, Morpheus is with thee Blessed art thou among Zion, and blessed is the roundhouse against Smith. Holy Neo, pray for us now, and at the hour of Victory, Amen.
chinas strictness on this has nothing to do with the fact that it is communist.
I see this as a conspiracy between MMO industry & chinese government to milk more money from players. Fewer hours for game = More days it takes to reach level cap = longer period of subscription = More $$ for companies. Everyone knows chinese government is very corrupted and can be bought off with money. Of course, gold sellers can benefit from this too. The only ppl getting screwed by this are players and internet cafe owners.
Big companies love to do business with china; over there they have more freedom to screw ppl. They paid workers little to no money, don't need to care about pollution, and no one dares to sue them because they can use money to influence judges. Corrupted government is the best friend to global capitalists because money talks.
my point was that chinas government is not corrupt because its communist. all what you said could be right but unrelated to communism.
I'm just pointing out how most people (*cough* americans) have no idea what communism actually is, but have this stupid prejudice against it.
the thread title enforces this predjudice. why mention that china is communist its completely unrelated and shows signs of the usual ignorance.
This is like the opium wars all over again except this time the commodity is something intangible. MMORPG just like anything else if abused to cause psychological addiction is bad for a person. The 4 hour limit per session is good for the overall health of the general populace. Let's face it, mmo-addicts rarely listen to reason, they get stuck in front of the computer screen for 8 hours a day, some worse cases are where they are playin for several days non-stop causing their deaths from fatigue and heart failure (several cases documented). And to top it all off, mmo addiction just like any type of addiction and abuse causes long term health risk such as obesity. Personally, I think the government of china has the good of all it's people in it's mind when it created that law. You may argue all about freedom of choice all you want, like in america people would say "Hey if they want to be self destructive and waste their life way in front of a computer let them be!" but I think mmo addiction in china is in such a state where it requires the interdiction of the government to put things right and I applaud them for it.
They do not tell you in what way fatigue is deadly. I will - if a person suffering fatigue is in a position that endangers his/her life then it is possible that they may die. For example: Some one falls asleep while driving a car. Not someone sitting down at a keyboard.
Pardon me as I do not bow to your obviously vast wisdom, but I'd prefer to have a professional on the subject tell us seeing as you have yet to cite any sources to back up your expounding.
Stanley Coren, from his book Sleep Thieves, chapter 15, page 170:
"To see the link between the immune system and sleep a little better, let's go back to a mystery that we left unsolved earlier. You probably recall that I described a series of studies by Dr. Allan Rechtschaffen in which rats were prevented from sleeping and began to lose weight after a few weeks of this treatment. Next, they lost their ability to regulate their body temperature; they then simply died. When Rechtschaffen's research team looked for the reasons for these deaths, they could find nothing obviously wrong in the organs, blood, or urine of these rats. What had killed them?
A possible answer to this mystery was provided by Dr. Carol Everson, a senior staff fellow at the National Institute of Mental Health at Bethesda, Maryland. Everson had been a student of Rechtschaffen's and noticed that the rats that died of the sleep deprivation looked very much like cancer patients whose bodies had been weakened either by chemotherapy or some form of wasting away caused by the disease itself. When cancer patients enter the final stages of the disease, they are often hit with many secondary infections simply because their overtaxed immune system is now failing and they can no longer fight off the potential invaders. Thus, it is not unusual for the final cause of death in a cancer patient to be some infection rather than the cancer itself. This led Everson to the hypothesis that perhaps the sleep-deprived rats were actually infected with something. When Everson did a new series of tests, she found that the sleep-deprived rats had died from bacterial infections of the blood. Perhaps the most interesting part of these findings is that the fatal bacteria were strains that rats come into contact with every day. These common microbes usually do not cause disease because the immune systems usually is quite aggressive in cleaning up and eliminating them when they assault the body. What seems to have happened in the sleep-deprived rats is a complete crashing of their immune system. Because their resistance was down, their body became prey to infectious microorganisms that normally don't stand a chance of passing its defenses."
And so ironically, a person could die sitting there in their office chair. After all, if they aren't stopping to sleep, do you honestly think they're going to stop and shower to get rid of all those nasty bacteria? Or take the time to bleach their keyboard? I don't.
I'll approach the rest of your post later. At the moment I, ironically, need some sleep.
~ A Girl Disappearing
1) How were the rats prevented from sleeping?
2) did you skip the words "possible answer"?
3) Did you skip the words "seems to of happened"?
4) When I say "hypothisis" what comes to mind?
5) I would at this time point out that it took weeks for the rats to lose wieght. So, how long did it take for them to die?
6) You point to a book on sleeping disorders, where the author basically states, "buy my book because your very life may be in peril!" We can't blame him for trying. I am sure he only wants to help us at $19.95.
Here is what I am saying:
A person can't die from fatigue - they will get tired and fall asleep
A video game is not to blame for anything in a persons life.
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
i live in China, i will tell you the truth, my english is limited though. i think many childrenthey including me lack of self-control, sometimes they play games very late, and are not willing to go to school, study, sleep, ...so it's not good for their health and future. even in university , many classmates of mine, they play games like their major is game...they skip classes, they are so addicited to games.... so the government enact some law to help these children. however in China you can still play when you want to play....because the law is one thing...to stick to the law is another thing.... it's not a matter of regime...dudes....by the way , i like NBA and American Idol..my email [email protected]
An excellent example of the brainwashing you get in China. Goverment tells you what to do and you think it is to "help" you.
Sad.
again thats something that could be applied to a lot of americans . theres a distinct lack of foriegn news in the usa and stations like fox news follow biased right wing agenda .people in glass houses should nt throw stones . chinese children are no more brainwashed than you are
You wouldn't look half as stupid if you'd at least learn how to punctuate.
thats the best counter argument you can come up with ??? if you dont agree just call someone stupid .yeah that ll really show how smart you are . grow up.
chinas strictness on this has nothing to do with the fact that it is communist.
I see this as a conspiracy between MMO industry & chinese government to milk more money from players. Fewer hours for game = More days it takes to reach level cap = longer period of subscription = More $$ for companies. Everyone knows chinese government is very corrupted and can be bought off with money. Of course, gold sellers can benefit from this too. The only ppl getting screwed by this are players and internet cafe owners.
Big companies love to do business with china; over there they have more freedom to screw ppl. They paid workers little to no money, don't need to care about pollution, and no one dares to sue them because they can use money to influence judges. Corrupted government is the best friend to global capitalists because money talks.
my point was that chinas government is not corrupt because its communist. all what you said could be right but unrelated to communism.
I'm just pointing out how most people (*cough* americans) have no idea what communism actually is, but have this stupid prejudice against it.
the thread title enforces this predjudice. why mention that china is communist its completely unrelated and shows signs of the usual ignorance.
i agree with you 100 percent . we dont dont refer to the united states as capitalist america so why call china communist china . the problem is most americans cloak themselve in the flag and dont question thier system . which is a pity because if they did they d have a far fairer society . america has the one of the highest infant mortality rates in the western world simply because theres no free unversal healthcare . most american dont believe global warming is man made but half of them believe in ufos .they think thier political system is democratic but half of thier population dont vote simply because neither thier democratic or republican partys actually represent the poor . american patriotism and communist propaganda arnt far removed from each other .they both are forms of brainwashing .
"Researchers are now gathering a lot evidence that confirms the idea that sleep is a vital factor in staving off disease and fighting disease organisms that have already started their attack. Some of the most convincing evidence comes from research by Krueger and his associate Dr. L. A. Toth. They have conducted several studies using rabbits as their experimental subjects. In one study, animals were infected with bacteria called staphylococci. The rabbits that showed the greatest amount of deep sleep in response to the introduction of the infectious material also turned out to be the animals most likely to survive. A second study, which used different infectious agents, including a strain of E. coli, produced similar results, with the rabbits having the least amount of slow-wave deep sleep being the animals most likely to die of the infections.
Numerous examples of how sleep debt weakens the body have now begun to emerge from research laboratories. One study showed that if you deprive rats of sleep for only 8 hours and then challenge the body with a foreign substance, the antibody response is weak. Moreover, the defensive response is still below normal 3 days later. Mice deprived of sleep show decreased immunity to influenza virus infection of the lungs; they also show a reduced ability to reproduce interferon and other vital infection-fighting substances. Recent studies in humans have also shown that loss of just a few hours of sleep can disrupt the normal pattern of the immune system response."
Originally posted by Wickersham
1) How were the rats prevented from sleeping?
Constant light, neutral temperature, and every time an EEG showed the rat starting to fall asleep the platform they were kept on moved slightly causing them to make very minor re-adjustments. Minor re-adjustments... reminds me of what I had to do with my hand last time I played Guild Wars.
Originally posted by Wickersham
2) did you skip the words "possible answer"?
No I did not. Though it's fairly obvious you've skipped over portions of my previous posts so I can't blame you for asking.
Originally posted by Wickersham
3) Did you skip the words "seems to of happened"?
No, but I am amused at how you are grasping. I suppose it's my fault for not just outright posting the entire chapter. Seeing as you are so hung up on individual words, the snippet I posted above has a few good ones like "confirms" and "vital" and "weak" and the rest of the chapter has a frackton more. Fun with english!
Originally posted by Wickersham
4) When I say "hypothisis" what comes to mind?
That you don't know the difference between debating and arguing.
Originally posted by Wickersham
5) I would at this time point out that it took weeks for the rats to lose wieght. So, how long did it take for them to die?
That is because they were simply deprived of set amounts of sleep, not of sleep in it's complete entirety. The next portion above shows this in greater detail.
Originally posted by Wickersham
6) You point to a book on sleeping disorders, where the author basically states, "buy my book because your very life may be in peril!" We can't blame him for trying. I am sure he only wants to help us at $19.95.
Show me exactly where it says that your life is in peril and must buy this to survive and maybe I'll take this a little more seriously. As it is, a large number of people have Amazon accounts and it's free to start one, and if you didn't notice the "Search Inside" option will let you read from the horse's mouth exactly what I have been transcribing for free. By the way, only a few chapters of the book itself have anything to do with how sleep can threaten your health.
Originally posted by Wickersham
Here is what I am saying: A person can't die from fatigue - they will get tired and fall asleep
And here is what I am saying. Back your claims. Show some evidence instead of just trying to pretend you know what you're talking about because you believe your short moments of contemplation merit more credibility then controlled scientific research. I am not the only one that has rebuffed your claims in this thread, I'm simply the most stubborn.
Originally posted by Wickersham
A video game is not to blame for anything in a persons life.
And here's the REALLY funny part. I agree with that entirely. Thank you for giving me a beautiful example of what you were accusing me of earlier!
Ahem... did you not notice the words:
Originally posted by NoUrbanLight (Oh my Gawd, ME!)
Now, let me emphasize my bluntness by horribly abusing various text formatting utilities. I do not personally believe that limitation of gaming will solve this problem. I do not believe that this problem is even widely applicable to the mass population. Addictive behaviours and impulse control issues are not seen in the vast majority of the population, nor is there a majority of them in the gaming subsect of cultures. These same behaviours are seen in MANY other places, but gambling addictions don't just shut down casinos, and workaholics don't shut down a buisness, nor do I think those techniques would even have any effect on the issue. Restricting game play or internet access to the masses will not solve this problem, as the problem lies not within the qualities of the game but of the specific player. Efforts should be focused on aiding the individual at risk as one would aid any other person with problems of a psychological nature. Punishing those that are not at any risk will solve nothing. So yes. This IS a problem. Something SHOULD be done. That doesn't mean the RIGHT thing is being done, or the right aspect of the issue being addressed. NO ONE is saying that ALL gamers worldwide should be cut off at the knees and forced to go cold turkey. Heck, just classifying it and forcing health insurance providers to dish out for stays at the various voluntary rehab facilities that have been erected would be a huge step. There is no need at all for gamers worldwide to feel threatened that their rights are going to overnight be at risk.
Originally posted by Wickersham
You are saying please do something that will allow the state to prevent people from learning about and encouraging full DEMOCRACY! Very nice of you.
And what's hillarious is that you can read over every single one of my posts and see that I said nothing of the sort! How fun! My above quoting of myself finds more applicability.
By the way, while it does apply to even more pieces of your posting, it's actually more obvious with that particular line. Now fair readers, I'd like you all to observe the logic that went into that line.
1. I support offering aid to those with impulse control disorders.
2. My rebuffs of China's new laws have beensubtle and not nearly as loud and angry as others.
3. Having encountered many people that suffer from mental illness whether in my family or friends, I support the practices of psychiatry and psychology.
The REAL conclusion: "So yes. This IS a problem. Something SHOULD be done. That doesn't mean the RIGHT thing is being done, or the right aspect of the issue being addressed. NO ONE is saying that ALL gamers worldwide should be cut off at the knees and forced to go cold turkey. Heck, just classifying it and forcing health insurance providers to dish out for stays at the various voluntary rehab facilities that have been erected would be a huge step. There is no need at all for gamers worldwide to feel threatened that their rights are going to overnight be at risk."
Wickersham's conclusion: "You are saying please do something that will allow the state to prevent people from learning about and encouraging full DEMOCRACY! Very nice of you."
Now... the FUNNY part:
"Logical Fallacies: Applying logic one can usually draw a conclusion from one of more established premises. In the type of progaganda known as the logical fallacy, however, the premises may be accurate, but the conclusion is not."
Propaganda. It's such a fun word. It'd used by governments, by presidential candidates, and even the simplest bickering rivals. Such a loaded word, and yet such a common occurrence.
Ahhhh... now I'm coming down of my snark high. See what you've made me do?
~ A Girl Disappearing
~~~~~ "Big surprise... there was no protection by this urban light..."
Conclusion: Government doing something about it is better than doing nothing at all even if the solution is not the most optimal solution to the problem at hand. It's a good thing if governments care enough to find a solution before the problem reaches epidemic proportions.
Glad you agree that a video game is not to blame for anything in a persons life.
I guess we have some unfinished business on fatigue death now?
"Show some evidence instead of just trying to pretend you know what you're talking about because you believe your short moments of contemplation merit more credibility then controlled scientific research."
Take a week off and stay awake for as long as you can. I bet you'll fall asleep. I bet you won't die. Is there even a chance that you will die? Nope, you will fall asleep - I am sure of it. Somewhere between 20ish hours and maybe 70ish you will pass out. You see you will become what we non-scientific laymen call "tired" this tireness will make you "drowsey" - your little head will nod up and down as you struggle to remain awake but in the end Mr. Sandman will take you away - not Mr. Death. You will be quite alive when you wake from your nap. Is there any doubt of this? Do you have ANY doubt that you like everyone else reading this will not die? Why are you having such a difficult time grasping this very simple concept? You will fall asleep. You are all the evidence I need. If those rats were doing something they really really really really enjoyed, even they, if given the chance, would of fallen asleep - it is natural. The bunnies too. Sleepy time for bunnies . .
Do you disagree with me on this point?
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
You might ignore body signals such as being tired, it happens a lot, you might be almost peeing your pants but you won't go to the bathroom until the movie finishes, while you could easily push the pause button, pee, and come back. You might be exhausted after a long raving night and keep going and going, and not falling asleep in the middle of a conversation, its all about attention span.
MMO related neglect doesn't only happen China, it just happens differently. In China the gamers are putting only themselves at risk, in America and Korea, they are putting their children at risk. Does no one remember the couple in the US playing D&DO that neglected their 2 children, 11months and 22 months old, to play their game? They let them almost starve to death and lay around in cat piss, while they played and even held down their jobs. And while they were eating (pictures show they were both well fed) and using a $50,000 dollar inheritance to buy top-notch gaming rigs and apparently a LARGE flat panel T.V, their 2 year old didn't know how to walk, and their 1 year old daughter, who weighed only 10lbs was being used as a cat bathroom (her hair was so matted up with the cat urine that it had to be shaved off) The 2 year old son had a severe genital infection, and the 1 year old girl have a severe mouth infection. Both we're near death from starvation. Then you have the man in florida that put his 9month old baby in a UTILITY CLOSET because the crying was bothering him while he was playing Everquest, the baby eventually stopped crying when it stopped breathing and died...., or the woman in Arizona who left her 3 year old daughter to die locked in a car on a hot day while she went to play WoW at a internet cafe, that she could have brought her daughter into! In korea recently a couple left their 4 month old daughter at home alone while they went for a marathon gaming session on WoW. She suffocated while they were gone. They responded to it by saying , "We were thinking of playing for just an hour or two and returning home like usual, but the game took longer that day." The term usual there strikes hard, because apparently they left her alone on a regular basis! Even more shocking? The childs grandmother just lived upstairs, they could have taken and left their daughter there under her supervision. Obviously there is something going on with MMO's WORLD WIDE that they are triggering an addiction other games are not, and some of these people severely need mental help that no one is willing to recognize and give them.
No, apparently there are just some really stupid people who should have never been allowed to have children. That's not gamings' fault, it's stupidity.
If I had my way, everyone would need a friggen license to have children. The amount of morons, like the ones you cited in your post, kept from breeding would solve population and hunger problems the world over.
Comments
Perhaps you should move there.
no i m quite happy being in the uk with our decent heathcare ,unbiased news and balanced world view .(i could do without the rain though) i would nt want to be in either china or the usa . both of which are extremes one capitalist that does nt look after its poor , the other communist that does but does nt repect personal freedoms .neither sound that great to me to be honest
MMO related neglect doesn't only happen China, it just happens differently.
In China the gamers are putting only themselves at risk, in America and Korea, they are putting their children at risk. Does no one remember the couple in the US playing D&DO that neglected their 2 children, 11months and 22 months old, to play their game? They let them almost starve to death and lay around in cat piss, while they played and even held down their jobs. And while they were eating (pictures show they were both well fed) and using a $50,000 dollar inheritance to buy top-notch gaming rigs and apparently a LARGE flat panel T.V, their 2 year old didn't know how to walk, and their 1 year old daughter, who weighed only 10lbs was being used as a cat bathroom (her hair was so matted up with the cat urine that it had to be shaved off) The 2 year old son had a severe genital infection, and the 1 year old girl have a severe mouth infection. Both we're near death from starvation. Then you have the man in florida that put his 9month old baby in a UTILITY CLOSET because the crying was bothering him while he was playing Everquest, the baby eventually stopped crying when it stopped breathing and died...., or the woman in Arizona who left her 3 year old daughter to die locked in a car on a hot day while she went to play WoW at a internet cafe, that she could have brought her daughter into! In korea recently a couple left their 4 month old daughter at home alone while they went for a marathon gaming session on WoW. She suffocated while they were gone. They responded to it by saying , "We were thinking of playing for just an hour or two and returning home like usual, but the game took longer that day." The term usual there strikes hard, because apparently they left her alone on a regular basis! Even more shocking? The childs grandmother just lived upstairs, they could have taken and left their daughter there under her supervision.
Obviously there is something going on with MMO's WORLD WIDE that they are triggering an addiction other games are not, and some of these people severely need mental help that no one is willing to recognize and give them.
Yes, they can encourage addictive behvaior because they are very escapist. Anything that provides people with a reliable, durable escape from life will be turned into an addiction by some % of the population -- MMOs are, in that sense, very much like drugs or alcohol or shopping or gambling or sex or anything else that provides a reliable and durable escape from life. Throwing more attention at the issue isn't going to solve the addiction problems any more than it does with any other addictive activity or substance -- people who are looking for a reliable escape will find their escape, whether it is in WoW or the local bar.
Sad.
again thats something that could be applied to a lot of americans . theres a distinct lack of foriegn news in the usa and stations like fox news follow biased right wing agenda .people in glass houses should nt throw stones . chinese children are no more brainwashed than you are
No, really, he's right. We don't need the government telling us what to do, like don't drive without a seatbelt, don't smoke pot, don't drink before your 21, don't show your bewbies in public. God, America would suck if the Government said we couldn't do those things, or if it tried to brainwash us into thinking that allowing gays to marry will spell the end of civilization as we know it.Seriously, we don't need the Government telling us what we should and should not do. That's why we have televangelists and celebrity scientologists.
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im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
Drinking causes deaths. It causes auto-mobile accidents. It causes addictions. It causes obesity, if not controlled.
MMOs cannot within themselves kill people. They can't cause auto mobile accidents. They can become addictive and are an outlet for obesity if people aren't wise about playing.
So, there is a big difference, and I must disagree with you.
Blessings,
Strange then, how most European countries seem to do just fine with loosely enforced 18 year old drinking ages (or less).PS: Drinking does not cause automobile accidents. Drunk Driving does. And drinking is far less likely to cause obesity (especially in people under 21) than McDonalds....but you don't see anyone trying to ban McDonalds.
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im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
Pardon me as I do not bow to your obviously vast wisdom, but I'd prefer to have a professional on the subject tell us seeing as you have yet to cite any sources to back up your expounding.
Stanley Coren, from his book Sleep Thieves, chapter 15, page 170:
"To see the link between the immune system and sleep a little better, let's go back to a mystery that we left unsolved earlier. You probably recall that I described a series of studies by Dr. Allan Rechtschaffen in which rats were prevented from sleeping and began to lose weight after a few weeks of this treatment. Next, they lost their ability to regulate their body temperature; they then simply died. When Rechtschaffen's research team looked for the reasons for these deaths, they could find nothing obviously wrong in the organs, blood, or urine of these rats. What had killed them?
A possible answer to this mystery was provided by Dr. Carol Everson, a senior staff fellow at the National Institute of Mental Health at Bethesda, Maryland. Everson had been a student of Rechtschaffen's and noticed that the rats that died of the sleep deprivation looked very much like cancer patients whose bodies had been weakened either by chemotherapy or some form of wasting away caused by the disease itself. When cancer patients enter the final stages of the disease, they are often hit with many secondary infections simply because their overtaxed immune system is now failing and they can no longer fight off the potential invaders. Thus, it is not unusual for the final cause of death in a cancer patient to be some infection rather than the cancer itself. This led Everson to the hypothesis that perhaps the sleep-deprived rats were actually infected with something. When Everson did a new series of tests, she found that the sleep-deprived rats had died from bacterial infections of the blood. Perhaps the most interesting part of these findings is that the fatal bacteria were strains that rats come into contact with every day. These common microbes usually do not cause disease because the immune systems usually is quite aggressive in cleaning up and eliminating them when they assault the body. What seems to have happened in the sleep-deprived rats is a complete crashing of their immune system. Because their resistance was down, their body became prey to infectious microorganisms that normally don't stand a chance of passing its defenses."
And so ironically, a person could die sitting there in their office chair. After all, if they aren't stopping to sleep, do you honestly think they're going to stop and shower to get rid of all those nasty bacteria? Or take the time to bleach their keyboard? I don't.
I'll approach the rest of your post later. At the moment I, ironically, need some sleep.
~ A Girl Disappearing
~~~~~
"Big surprise... there was no protection by this urban light..."
Look at it this way, there are no real benefits from sitting on your butt in front of a computer playing MMOs. (Dont even try to feed me that "it works your hand eye coordination" garbage either.)
Im all for freedom to do as you please dont get me wrong. Im a born and bred midwestern guy, but I can see how a government might worry that its youth are engaging in an activity that really provides no positive benefits.
I personally dont let my kids play MMOs for more than an hour or two a day. If more parents took a bit more responsibility and kept their kids MMO time reasonably balanced with other activities, Im all for em. However we all know people let their kids go overboard, for whatever reason, but thats a concern of parents in general, not the government. Glad I dont live in China.
not only parents need to take more responsibility for their children....parents are just the first teacher your children meet.
Sad.
again thats something that could be applied to a lot of americans . theres a distinct lack of foriegn news in the usa and stations like fox news follow biased right wing agenda .people in glass houses should nt throw stones . chinese children are no more brainwashed than you are
You wouldn't look half as stupid if you'd at least learn how to punctuate.
My youtube MMO gaming channel
In the end id be glad someone with super uber leet gear pk'd me rather than some kid stabbing me on my way home.
We need Japan to invade China again.
Hail Neo, full of pwnage, Morpheus is with thee
Blessed art thou among Zion, and blessed is the roundhouse against Smith.
Holy Neo, pray for us now, and at the hour of Victory, Amen.
Well tons of people have died in china playing games so let them do what they want.
Playing: Everthing
Played: DAoC,AC2,EvE,SWG,WAR,MXO,CoX,EQ2,L2,LOTRO,SB,UO,WoW.
I have played every MMO that has ever come out.
Big companies love to do business with china; over there they have more freedom to screw ppl. They paid workers little to no money, don't need to care about pollution, and no one dares to sue them because they can use money to influence judges. Corrupted government is the best friend to global capitalists because money talks.
my point was that chinas government is not corrupt because its communist. all what you said could be right but unrelated to communism.
I'm just pointing out how most people (*cough* americans) have no idea what communism actually is, but have this stupid prejudice against it.
the thread title enforces this predjudice. why mention that china is communist its completely unrelated and shows signs of the usual ignorance.
My blog:
This is like the opium wars all over again except this time the commodity is something intangible. MMORPG just like anything else if abused to cause psychological addiction is bad for a person. The 4 hour limit per session is good for the overall health of the general populace. Let's face it, mmo-addicts rarely listen to reason, they get stuck in front of the computer screen for 8 hours a day, some worse cases are where they are playin for several days non-stop causing their deaths from fatigue and heart failure (several cases documented). And to top it all off, mmo addiction just like any type of addiction and abuse causes long term health risk such as obesity. Personally, I think the government of china has the good of all it's people in it's mind when it created that law. You may argue all about freedom of choice all you want, like in america people would say "Hey if they want to be self destructive and waste their life way in front of a computer let them be!" but I think mmo addiction in china is in such a state where it requires the interdiction of the government to put things right and I applaud them for it.
Pardon me as I do not bow to your obviously vast wisdom, but I'd prefer to have a professional on the subject tell us seeing as you have yet to cite any sources to back up your expounding.
Stanley Coren, from his book Sleep Thieves, chapter 15, page 170:
"To see the link between the immune system and sleep a little better, let's go back to a mystery that we left unsolved earlier. You probably recall that I described a series of studies by Dr. Allan Rechtschaffen in which rats were prevented from sleeping and began to lose weight after a few weeks of this treatment. Next, they lost their ability to regulate their body temperature; they then simply died. When Rechtschaffen's research team looked for the reasons for these deaths, they could find nothing obviously wrong in the organs, blood, or urine of these rats. What had killed them?
A possible answer to this mystery was provided by Dr. Carol Everson, a senior staff fellow at the National Institute of Mental Health at Bethesda, Maryland. Everson had been a student of Rechtschaffen's and noticed that the rats that died of the sleep deprivation looked very much like cancer patients whose bodies had been weakened either by chemotherapy or some form of wasting away caused by the disease itself. When cancer patients enter the final stages of the disease, they are often hit with many secondary infections simply because their overtaxed immune system is now failing and they can no longer fight off the potential invaders. Thus, it is not unusual for the final cause of death in a cancer patient to be some infection rather than the cancer itself. This led Everson to the hypothesis that perhaps the sleep-deprived rats were actually infected with something. When Everson did a new series of tests, she found that the sleep-deprived rats had died from bacterial infections of the blood. Perhaps the most interesting part of these findings is that the fatal bacteria were strains that rats come into contact with every day. These common microbes usually do not cause disease because the immune systems usually is quite aggressive in cleaning up and eliminating them when they assault the body. What seems to have happened in the sleep-deprived rats is a complete crashing of their immune system. Because their resistance was down, their body became prey to infectious microorganisms that normally don't stand a chance of passing its defenses."
And so ironically, a person could die sitting there in their office chair. After all, if they aren't stopping to sleep, do you honestly think they're going to stop and shower to get rid of all those nasty bacteria? Or take the time to bleach their keyboard? I don't.
I'll approach the rest of your post later. At the moment I, ironically, need some sleep.
~ A Girl Disappearing
1) How were the rats prevented from sleeping?
2) did you skip the words "possible answer"?
3) Did you skip the words "seems to of happened"?
4) When I say "hypothisis" what comes to mind?
5) I would at this time point out that it took weeks for the rats to lose wieght. So, how long did it take for them to die?
6) You point to a book on sleeping disorders, where the author basically states, "buy my book because your very life may be in peril!" We can't blame him for trying. I am sure he only wants to help us at $19.95.
Here is what I am saying:
A person can't die from fatigue - they will get tired and fall asleep
A video game is not to blame for anything in a persons life.
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
Sad.
again thats something that could be applied to a lot of americans . theres a distinct lack of foriegn news in the usa and stations like fox news follow biased right wing agenda .people in glass houses should nt throw stones . chinese children are no more brainwashed than you are
You wouldn't look half as stupid if you'd at least learn how to punctuate.
thats the best counter argument you can come up with ??? if you dont agree just call someone stupid .yeah that ll really show how smart you are . grow up.
Big companies love to do business with china; over there they have more freedom to screw ppl. They paid workers little to no money, don't need to care about pollution, and no one dares to sue them because they can use money to influence judges. Corrupted government is the best friend to global capitalists because money talks.
my point was that chinas government is not corrupt because its communist. all what you said could be right but unrelated to communism.
I'm just pointing out how most people (*cough* americans) have no idea what communism actually is, but have this stupid prejudice against it.
the thread title enforces this predjudice. why mention that china is communist its completely unrelated and shows signs of the usual ignorance.
i agree with you 100 percent . we dont dont refer to the united states as capitalist america so why call china communist china . the problem is most americans cloak themselve in the flag and dont question thier system . which is a pity because if they did they d have a far fairer society . america has the one of the highest infant mortality rates in the western world simply because theres no free unversal healthcare . most american dont believe global warming is man made but half of them believe in ufos .they think thier political system is democratic but half of thier population dont vote simply because neither thier democratic or republican partys actually represent the poor . american patriotism and communist propaganda arnt far removed from each other .they both are forms of brainwashing .
"Researchers are now gathering a lot evidence that confirms the idea that sleep is a vital factor in staving off disease and fighting disease organisms that have already started their attack. Some of the most convincing evidence comes from research by Krueger and his associate Dr. L. A. Toth. They have conducted several studies using rabbits as their experimental subjects. In one study, animals were infected with bacteria called staphylococci. The rabbits that showed the greatest amount of deep sleep in response to the introduction of the infectious material also turned out to be the animals most likely to survive. A second study, which used different infectious agents, including a strain of E. coli, produced similar results, with the rabbits having the least amount of slow-wave deep sleep being the animals most likely to die of the infections.
Numerous examples of how sleep debt weakens the body have now begun to emerge from research laboratories. One study showed that if you deprive rats of sleep for only 8 hours and then challenge the body with a foreign substance, the antibody response is weak. Moreover, the defensive response is still below normal 3 days later. Mice deprived of sleep show decreased immunity to influenza virus infection of the lungs; they also show a reduced ability to reproduce interferon and other vital infection-fighting substances. Recent studies in humans have also shown that loss of just a few hours of sleep can disrupt the normal pattern of the immune system response."
Constant light, neutral temperature, and every time an EEG showed the rat starting to fall asleep the platform they were kept on moved slightly causing them to make very minor re-adjustments. Minor re-adjustments... reminds me of what I had to do with my hand last time I played Guild Wars.
No I did not. Though it's fairly obvious you've skipped over portions of my previous posts so I can't blame you for asking.
No, but I am amused at how you are grasping. I suppose it's my fault for not just outright posting the entire chapter. Seeing as you are so hung up on individual words, the snippet I posted above has a few good ones like "confirms" and "vital" and "weak" and the rest of the chapter has a frackton more. Fun with english!
That you don't know the difference between debating and arguing.
That is because they were simply deprived of set amounts of sleep, not of sleep in it's complete entirety. The next portion above shows this in greater detail.
Show me exactly where it says that your life is in peril and must buy this to survive and maybe I'll take this a little more seriously. As it is, a large number of people have Amazon accounts and it's free to start one, and if you didn't notice the "Search Inside" option will let you read from the horse's mouth exactly what I have been transcribing for free. By the way, only a few chapters of the book itself have anything to do with how sleep can threaten your health.
And here is what I am saying. Back your claims. Show some evidence instead of just trying to pretend you know what you're talking about because you believe your short moments of contemplation merit more credibility then controlled scientific research. I am not the only one that has rebuffed your claims in this thread, I'm simply the most stubborn.
And here's the REALLY funny part. I agree with that entirely. Thank you for giving me a beautiful example of what you were accusing me of earlier!
Ahem... did you not notice the words:
And what's hillarious is that you can read over every single one of my posts and see that I said nothing of the sort! How fun! My above quoting of myself finds more applicability.
By the way, while it does apply to even more pieces of your posting, it's actually more obvious with that particular line. Now fair readers, I'd like you all to observe the logic that went into that line.
1. I support offering aid to those with impulse control disorders.
2. My rebuffs of China's new laws have beensubtle and not nearly as loud and angry as others.
3. Having encountered many people that suffer from mental illness whether in my family or friends, I support the practices of psychiatry and psychology.
The REAL conclusion: "So yes. This IS a problem. Something SHOULD be done. That doesn't mean the RIGHT thing is being done, or the right aspect of the issue being addressed. NO ONE is saying that ALL gamers worldwide should be cut off at the knees and forced to go cold turkey. Heck, just classifying it and forcing health insurance providers to dish out for stays at the various voluntary rehab facilities that have been erected would be a huge step. There is no need at all for gamers worldwide to feel threatened that their rights are going to overnight be at risk."
Wickersham's conclusion: "You are saying please do something that will allow the state to prevent people from learning about and encouraging full DEMOCRACY! Very nice of you."
Now... the FUNNY part:
"Logical Fallacies: Applying logic one can usually draw a conclusion from one of more established premises. In the type of progaganda known as the logical fallacy, however, the premises may be accurate, but the conclusion is not."
Propaganda. It's such a fun word. It'd used by governments, by presidential candidates, and even the simplest bickering rivals. Such a loaded word, and yet such a common occurrence.
Ahhhh... now I'm coming down of my snark high. See what you've made me do?
~ A Girl Disappearing
~~~~~
"Big surprise... there was no protection by this urban light..."
Conclusion: Government doing something about it is better than doing nothing at all even if the solution is not the most optimal solution to the problem at hand. It's a good thing if governments care enough to find a solution before the problem reaches epidemic proportions.
agree with you, it 's just like the government doesn't allow ppl under 18 to get alcohol, but they still can get alcohol if they want.
Glad you agree that a video game is not to blame for anything in a persons life.
I guess we have some unfinished business on fatigue death now?
"Show some evidence instead of just trying to pretend you know what you're talking about because you believe your short moments of contemplation merit more credibility then controlled scientific research."
Take a week off and stay awake for as long as you can. I bet you'll fall asleep. I bet you won't die. Is there even a chance that you will die? Nope, you will fall asleep - I am sure of it. Somewhere between 20ish hours and maybe 70ish you will pass out. You see you will become what we non-scientific laymen call "tired" this tireness will make you "drowsey" - your little head will nod up and down as you struggle to remain awake but in the end Mr. Sandman will take you away - not Mr. Death. You will be quite alive when you wake from your nap. Is there any doubt of this? Do you have ANY doubt that you like everyone else reading this will not die? Why are you having such a difficult time grasping this very simple concept? You will fall asleep. You are all the evidence I need. If those rats were doing something they really really really really enjoyed, even they, if given the chance, would of fallen asleep - it is natural. The bunnies too. Sleepy time for bunnies
. 
.
Do you disagree with me on this point?
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
You might ignore body signals such as being tired, it happens a lot, you might be almost peeing your pants but you won't go to the bathroom until the movie finishes, while you could easily push the pause button, pee, and come back. You might be exhausted after a long raving night and keep going and going, and not falling asleep in the middle of a conversation, its all about attention span.
Or another attack on Pearl Harbor
Or another attack on Pearl Harbor
hahaha
No, apparently there are just some really stupid people who should have never been allowed to have children. That's not gamings' fault, it's stupidity.
If I had my way, everyone would need a friggen license to have children. The amount of morons, like the ones you cited in your post, kept from breeding would solve population and hunger problems the world over.