New Footage: The Agency (PC/PS3) Developer Walkthrough

methane47

The Agency CES 2008 Walkthrough Part 1

 

The Agency CES 2008 Walkthrough Part 2

The Agency CES 2008 Walkthrough Part 3

Game is looking better and better...

I originally thought this game was going to be a game where you would select your destination from a drop down box or something .. and when you get there you start your mission.. but it looks to me like there will be an open city type thing.. with multiples of missions per city and multiple cities..

 

 

CleffyII

I was like What, its gonna be cross platform?  Major negative points because of the problems linked with trying to make a game cross platform.  Then I was like What you can play QBert, this game is gonna kick ass.

methane47

Originally posted by CleffyII


I was like What, its gonna be cross platform?  Major negative points because of the problems linked with trying to make a game cross platform.  Then I was like What you can play QBert, this game is gonna kick ass.

what problems with cross platform play?

Gameloading

Originally posted by CleffyII


I was like What, its gonna be cross platform?  Major negative points because of the problems linked with trying to make a game cross platform.  Then I was like What you can play QBert, this game is gonna kick ass.

AFAIK, Final Fantasy XI is the only one that allows cross platform play and I don't know of any problems.

CleffyII

The problem is very simple.  Its a problem with programming the game under multiple architectures.  The PS3 takes different programming then the PC.  As a result you end up doubling the workload.  Also the game will be limited by the specs on the PS3.  In this sense the system specs cannot get higher in the future which as many may know SOE is very bad at keeping system specs down.  For an example just look at EQ that at this point is simply bloatware.

methane47

 

Originally posted by CleffyII


The problem is very simple.  Its a problem with programming the game under multiple architectures.  The PS3 takes different programming then the PC.  As a result you end up doubling the workload.  Also the game will be limited by the specs on the PS3.  In this sense the system specs cannot get higher in the future which as many may know SOE is very bad at keeping system specs down.  For an example just look at EQ that at this point is simply bloatware.

 

hmmmmm It seems to me that you dont understand how online multiplayer works

e.g. Final Fantasy 11 which is multiplat on PC, PS2 AND xbox360 seems to run just fine across all platforms.. without any wierd doubling of workload? across platforms what ever that means.....

Please note that the PS2!!! runs JUST fine... the PS2!!! which is much less powerful than a modern computer or a 360... and yet... No problems..

What makes you think the PS3 is going to experience some wierd problems because of differeing platforms playing together?

CleffyII

It could experience problems simply because many programmers have a tough time programming for the Cell processor.  Ontop of this it adds time, which is what I mean by doubling the programming workload.  You gotta program it first on the X86, then you gotta program it again on the Cell.

methane47

Originally posted by CleffyII


It could experience problems simply because many programmers have a tough time programming for the Cell processor.  Ontop of this it adds time, which is what I mean by doubling the programming workload.  You gotta program it first on the X86, then you gotta program it again on the Cell.

well if you looked at the videos you would know that SOE has taken an already working engine something that Already runs fine.. on the ps3/pc.. and is pretty much only building the content right now.

 

I finid it hard to see how using code that already works on the ps3 and pc will double the programming time....

CleffyII

Using Middleware still requires programming to optimize it and make it work as you want it to.

Draenor

Looks like it could be a pretty fun game...I would question the game's staying power at the moment, if only because it's SOE and they really know how to make a good concept turn into poop...but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and be honest when I say that it has me at least somewhat excited.

Pynda

Cross platform (also) means that the PC interface by necessity gets dumbed down to the level of a toy. And you're deluding yourself if you think that the potential complexity and richness of PC gaming won't take a big hit as a consequence.

Next, the typical console MMORPGer (representing 12 votes) is a fifteen year old child. The typical PC MMORPGer (representing 1 vote) is a twenty five plus year old adult. Who do you think these cross platform games are going to be designed for? If you're a kid - you win. But the rest of us...

methane47

Originally posted by Pynda


Cross platform (also) means that the PC interface by necessity gets dumbed down to the level of a toy. And you're deluding yourself if you think that the potential complexity and richness of PC gaming won't take a big hit as a consequence.
Next, the typical console MMORPGer (representing 12 votes) is a fifteen year old child. The typical PC MMORPGer (representing 1 vote) is a twenty five plus year old adult. Who do you think these cross platform games are going to be designed for? If you're a kid - you win. But the rest of us...
 

Game design will be dumbed down yes.. but that other guy has been suggesting that there is some huge technical difficulty with having a cross platform online game..

When in reality he is just grasping at straws.. and there will be probably no issues what so ever tied directly to the crossplatform play

slannmage

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by CleffyII


I was like What, its gonna be cross platform?  Major negative points because of the problems linked with trying to make a game cross platform.  Then I was like What you can play QBert, this game is gonna kick ass.

AFAIK, Final Fantasy XI is the only one that allows cross platform play and I don't know of any problems.

i do it looks and plays like a playstation game but with the low quality of the mmo genre you dont notice it lol

methane47

Originally posted by slannmage

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by CleffyII


I was like What, its gonna be cross platform?  Major negative points because of the problems linked with trying to make a game cross platform.  Then I was like What you can play QBert, this game is gonna kick ass.

AFAIK, Final Fantasy XI is the only one that allows cross platform play and I don't know of any problems.

i do it looks and plays like a playstation game but with the low quality of the mmo genre you dont notice it lol

graphics look better than most of the mmo's out now.. included WoW

Spathotan

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Originally posted by methane47
Originally posted by slannmage
Originally posted by Gameloading
Originally posted by CleffyII I was like What, its gonna be cross platform?  Major negative points because of the problems linked with trying to make a game cross platform.  Then I was like What you can play QBert, this game is gonna kick ass.

AFAIK, Final Fantasy XI is the only one that allows cross platform play and I don't know of any problems.

---

i do it looks and plays like a playstation game but with the low quality of the mmo genre you dont notice it lol

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graphics look better than most of the mmo's out now.. included WoW

---

You are taking that a bit far. FFXI has the dullest colors of any game ever made. Ive played NES games that are more vibrant and less grey than FFXI. WoW is art style, not "mad grafkx yoz"

methane47

Originally posted by Spathotan


 

Originally posted by methane47


Originally posted by slannmage


Originally posted by Gameloading


Originally posted by CleffyII
 
I was like What, its gonna be cross platform?  Major negative points because of the problems linked with trying to make a game cross platform.  Then I was like What you can play QBert, this game is gonna kick ass.

AFAIK, Final Fantasy XI is the only one that allows cross platform play and I don't know of any problems.

---

 

i do it looks and plays like a playstation game but with the low quality of the mmo genre you dont notice it lol

---

graphics look better than most of the mmo's out now.. included WoW

---

 

You are taking that a bit far. FFXI has the dullest colors of any game ever made. Ive played NES games that are more vibrant and less grey than FFXI. WoW is art style, not "mad grafkx yoz"

So in order for a game to look good.. it must resemble a nite-brite? Or a rainbow?

ridiculous..

CleffyII

"In order for software to be considered cross-platform, it must be able to function on more than one computer architecture or operating system. This can be a time-consuming task given that different operating systems have different application programming interfaces or APIs (for example, Linux uses a different API for application software than Windows does). Just because a particular operating system may run on different computer architectures, that does not mean that the software written for that operating system will automatically work on all architectures that the operating system supports. One example as of August, 2006 was OpenOffice.org, which did not natively run on the AMD64 or EM64T lines of processors implementing the x86-64 64-bit standards for computers; this has since been changed, and the OpenOffice.org suite of software is “mostly” ported to these these 64-bit systems[1]. This also means that just because a program is written in a popular programming language such as C or C++, it does not mean it will run on all operating systems that support that programming language."

"There are certain issues associated with cross-platform development. Some of these include:

• Testing cross-platform applications may also be considerably more complicated, since different platforms can exhibit slightly different behaviors or subtle bugs. This problem has led some developers to deride cross-platform development as “Write Once, Debug Everywhere”, an ironic take on Sun’s “Write Once, Run Anywhere” marketing slogan.
• Developers are often restricted to using the lowest common denominator subset of features which are available on all platforms. This may hinder the application's performance or prohibit developers from using platforms’ most advanced features.
• Different platforms often have different user interface conventions, which cross-platform applications do not always accommodate. For example, applications developed for Mac OS X and GNOME are supposed to place the most important button on the right-hand side of windows and dialogs, whereas Microsoft Windows and KDE have the opposite convention. Though many of these differences are subtle, a cross-platform application which does not conform appropriately to these conventions may feel clunky or alien to the user. When working quickly, such opposing conventions may even result in data loss, such as in a dialog box confirming whether the user wants to save or discard changes to a file.
• Scripting languages and virtual machines must be translated into native executable code each time the application is executed, imposing a performance penalty. This performance hit can be alleviated using advanced techniques like just-in-time compilation; but even using such techniques, some performance overhead may be unavoidable. "

Source: Wikipedia

methane47

 

Originally posted by CleffyII


"In order for software to be considered cross-platform, it must be able to function on more than one computer architecture or operating system. This can be a time-consuming task given that different operating systems have different application programming interfaces or APIs (for example, Linux uses a different API for application software than Windows does). Just because a particular operating system may run on different computer architectures, that does not mean that the software written for that operating system will automatically work on all architectures that the operating system supports. One example as of August, 2006 was OpenOffice.org, which did not natively run on the AMD64 or EM64T lines of processors implementing the x86-64 64-bit standards for computers; this has since been changed, and the OpenOffice.org suite of software is “mostly” ported to these these 64-bit systems[1]. This also means that just because a program is written in a popular programming language such as C or C++, it does not mean it will run on all operating systems that support that programming language."
"There are certain issues associated with cross-platform development. Some of these include:

Testing cross-platform applications may also be considerably more complicated, since different platforms can exhibit slightly different behaviors or subtle bugs. This problem has led some developers to deride cross-platform development as “Write Once, Debug Everywhere”, an ironic take on Sun’s “Write Once, Run Anywhere” marketing slogan.
Developers are often restricted to using the lowest common denominator subset of features which are available on all platforms. This may hinder the application's performance or prohibit developers from using platforms’ most advanced features.
Different platforms often have different user interface conventions, which cross-platform applications do not always accommodate. For example, applications developed for Mac OS X and GNOME are supposed to place the most important button on the right-hand side of windows and dialogs, whereas Microsoft Windows and KDE have the opposite convention. Though many of these differences are subtle, a cross-platform application which does not conform appropriately to these conventions may feel clunky or alien to the user. When working quickly, such opposing conventions may even result in data loss, such as in a dialog box confirming whether the user wants to save or discard changes to a file.
Scripting languages and virtual machines must be translated into native executable code each time the application is executed, imposing a performance penalty. This performance hit can be alleviated using advanced techniques like just-in-time compilation; but even using such techniques, some performance overhead may be unavoidable. "

Source: Wikipedia

 

Uhuh... What you are talking about here is multiplatform development.. and the difficulties there aren't only applicable to PS3 development.. they affect ANY multiplatform game...

BUT ... the Engine is already built... They have said in interviews that the game is currently up and running and they are mostly focused on creating content.

They are NOT building the game from scratch....

 

And not EVeryone has difficulties developing on multiple platforms... Infinity Ward for example.. COD4 is one of the best looking games.. PERIOD... YET.. it exists on multiple platforms... OBLIVION, BURNOUT, Unreal Tournament... I could go ON AND ON...

Multiplatform development only takes proper planning to avoid difficulties down the line.. .And Since SOE have EXTENSIVE knowledge with the PC.. AND UNLIMITED development Resources  for the PS3.. I have a HARD time seeing How having a game on PC and PS3 will cause ANY ridculous technical difficulties.

 

 

methane47

Originally posted by CleffyII


I was like What, its gonna be cross platform?  Major negative points because of the problems linked with trying to make a game cross platform.

OH crap.. Oblivion is cross platform? Dang.. .MAJOR negative points because of problems with making games cross-platform

Call of Duty 4: One of the best Looking games OUT ever... the game that won Countless End of Year awards... OH Snapp.. MAJOR negative points.. because of problems with making games cross-platform..

BURNOUT Paradise: The game that runs at a near perfect 60fps on both systems... The game that has the most impressive crashes and.. OHhh gawd... MAJOR negative points because of the problems with making games Cross-platform..

Zelda: Twighlight princess.... nooo.. MAJOR negative poitns due to cross platform development..

 

You're argument is absolutely ridiculous... Cleffy

CleffyII

Just because Sony says one thing doesn't mean its true.  Making Crossplatform gaming with even middleware is a chore.  Especially with the PS3.  How long did it take Bathesda to port Oblivion to the PS3, 1 year?  There is time involved and there is workload involved.  Not to mention this isn't Bathesda, this isn't Epic; its SOE who have absolutely no experience with a cross-platform product.  This also isn't a single player game its an mmo with constant patches and updates that all need to comply to being developed on the PC and PS3.  Then there is what I said above about the games systems specs locked into the PS3's specs, while SOE over the course of 4~5 years will probably come out with content updates that will shoot the specs up.

methane47

Originally posted by CleffyII


Just because Sony says one thing doesn't mean its true.  Making Crossplatform gaming with even middleware is a chore.  Especially with the PS3.  How long did it take Bathesda to port Oblivion to the PS3, 1 year?  There is time involved and there is workload involved.  Not to mention this isn't Bathesda, this isn't Epic; its SOE who have absolutely no experience with a cross-platform product.  This also isn't a single player game its an mmo with constant patches and updates that all need to comply to being developed on the PC and PS3.  Then there is what I said above about the games systems specs locked into the PS3's specs, while SOE over the course of 4~5 years will probably come out with content updates that will shoot the specs up.

 

Again.. Final Fantasy XI... now years into the life of the game.. despite running on the PC AND Xbox360 besides the PS2... STILL runs fine.. even with its 4th or 5th MAJOR addition and countless patches across all platforms simultaneously.... the game runs.. fine... and its population of +/- 500,000 dont seem to have complaints about technical problems with cross platform play...

 

ALSO..... The PS3 is much More than capable of playing the Agency since it doesn't seem to be doing ANYthing graphically impressive in the slightest....

 

ANOTHER thing.. Graphical updates do not even have to carry over from one system to another... If the PS3 version of the game has 40 mb textures and the PC version uses 55 mb textures (or vice versa) that will not break the game in any way... Graphics dont really have anything to do with the transfer of data points like location, direction, shots fired etc etc.....

 

So before you crucify a game because of silly speculation (that its going to be bad) based on nothing.... Just wait and see for yourself...

CleffyII

Originally posted by CleffyII


I was like What, its gonna be cross platform?  Major negative points because of the problems linked with trying to make a game cross platform.  Then I was like What you can play QBert, this game is gonna kick ass.

Thats what I was doing.  I am just saying my argument on cross-platform games is an issue everyone who makes cross-platform games deals with.

Blurr

First of all, I don't see any problem with cross-platforming. Games are developed for multiple platforms all the time. Many games come out on 360, PS3, and PC all at the same time.  FFXI is a very good point because it was developed and released on cross-platform quite a long time ago, having no problems beyond the lack of a keyboard.

The PS3 is the most advanced console on the market, and developers haven't even begun to hit near the capacity of its capabilities (according to Valve). I doubt it will have much trouble keeping atleast close to a PC standard. Remember that people will still play games that aren't very taxing on the PC (ie WoW). Also since the game is being developed by Sony, they are the best people for the job of working with the PS3. Honestly there's no real reason to doubt the game.

In addition, I'd say it's too early to try and speculate what specs the game will come with, and what requirements will be in a few years.

Cross platforming isn't hard, it's done all the time. The only problems arising through an MMO is a)  making it so that the ps3 and pc players can interact with eachother, and b) how do we give one set of players all the capability of the other set?Essentially this boils down to making a ps3 player able to accomplish everything a pc player can do, except with a controller. Obviously chat function has to be looked at and so-on.

However, getting good performance on both systems is not a problem at all. There's nothing that says that the game has to look exactly the same on both ps3 and pc. The ps3 version can be optimized for the ps3, and the pc version can be optimized for the pc. As long as all the mechanics are still there, there's allowed to be a disconnect in the resolution or memory footprint or so-on.

CleffyII

"However, getting good performance on both systems is not a problem at all. There's nothing that says that the game has to look exactly the same on both ps3 and pc. The ps3 version can be optimized for the ps3, and the pc version can be optimized for the pc. As long as all the mechanics are still there, there's allowed to be a disconnect in the resolution or memory footprint or so-on."

When you develop content optimized for the PS3, and develop content optimized for the PC; isn't that... doubling your workload?