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General: MMOWTF - Mob Mentality
Stradden
Managing EditorMember CommonPosts: 6,696
In this week's MMOWTF, Dan Fortier tackles the issue of monster AI in MMORPGs. Fortier feels that monsters today just don't have the intelligence to pose a real challenge to human players.
This week is not a tribute to those wonderful MMOers that I love so much. Instead, I decided to drop the hammer on a common gripe of mine: Monster AI. In most theme park PvE MMOs the mobs are designed to have simplistic AI to make it easier for solo players with a lobotomy to kill them. It doesn’t do well to frustrate your unskilled customers with lots of free time and extra cash if you want to run a successful game these days. This week I pay lip service to this tired topic and anything else that comes to mind. Keep a bottle of eye-drops close at hand for this week’s Tour De Ordure!
Most gamers don’t expect much realism when they log into an MMO. Fields of meandering monsters who do nothing but spam the same basic attacks with a few special abilities thrown in at predictable intervals are the most common ding crops for players. Raid bosses and the tougher elite creatures have a few more surprises, but are only dangerous by virtue of their obnoxious stats and henchmen instead of their brilliant use of terrain or tactics. Of course, even the most complex routines can be analyzed and dissected by an observant group repeatedly farming the same area, but with enough dynamic content they would still have to be prepared for a wider variety of opponents.
Read the whole thing here.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Comments
A good read, thank you.
First off, I'd say check out Tabula Rasa.
Mobs don't simply wander around "waiting to be killed" but instead the animals fight each other, the Bane patrol and engage NPC AFS soldiers... they have their own bases, they attack AFS outposts...
And even though it's only just "visual flare" really, the Bane teleport into combat or get dropped in by dropships instead of simply "spawning."
It adds a LOT to the game in terms of immersion and believability.
The AI is pretty good, snipers will stick back and snipe, the bigger Bane will charge forward, they'll try to use cover... when they have a shield Drone they'll huddle around it for protection.. It's much, much better then any other MMO AI I've ever seen.. It really does make running around and killing stuff a lot more fun.
I made a blog post some time ago about whether or not player's felt "heroic." Pretty much, what I was getting at, is that the modern "pull one mob, kill it, pull a second mob, kill it. Rinse and repeat" crap just HAD to go.
It'd be so much more heroic if you engaged entire enemy formations at once, groups of enemies each with different roles. Enemy groups with tanks and ranged damage and melee dps etc. etc.
Save the one-on-one fights for the big stuff, bosses and/or heroic/legendary mobs, etc.
I'd rather feel like a hero! Cutting through a sea of enemies on a murderous path to glory!
Funny thing is...much of the behavior you asked for I've seen before, in DAOC. They had scouting mobs that would sound an alarm so they had to be killed quickly and well away from the others.
There were also mobs that ran once the chips were down (usually humanoids, animals fought to the death) and of course, many that had no problem bringing a friend (BAFing).
It was really rather clever in its day.... and you had to have a firm grip on your crowd control sometimes to accomplish the pulls. (or kite like crazy)
While EVE hasn't done much with their PVE...its always a surprise and annoyance when you find yourself warp scrambled or sensor damped by the AI and having to outfight it...the tactics aren't that bad....although so predictable you can easily counter it.
I like what I'm hearing about TR's AI...sounds like mobs are really getting a bit smarter...which is a good thing....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
One word
Tabula Rasa
For now!
Just wait for AoC, the A.I. described for mobs sounds awesome if it works when the game launches.
Dev Diary #4.Video.
The Mobs clearly have a "need":
"those wolves weren't just spawned there and performing animations of eating that deer.. the wolves were out HUNTING .. the A.I. , is programmed with "Need " intelligence... the wolves roamed as a pack.. they "needed" food so they killed that deer.
( you're not going to find the same pack of wolves and the same dead deer in the same place ever it seems..)
in that clip is the end result of that hunt. as far as they described it in this and past interviews related to the A.I. , all the NPC's humanoid AND beast included all have the "Need" programming... they function on the principles of what they need most..
if it's night, they'll "Need" to find fire wood, or "Need" to Build a fire, or "Need" to have a change of the guard.
That's why in the last minute of the thread the DEV said that if you attack a camp the wrong way.. the humanoid NPC's fulfill thier "Need" programming by :
-"Need" to call reinforcements
-"Need" to sound alarm
-"Need" to defend and destroy
etc.etc.etc.
game play and dynamics is going to be incredible and unlike anything we as gamers have ever seen to date."
Lets hope it comes out like that, would be a nice refreshing change.
I personally think spawning monsters at x,y cords for no apparent reason is getting VERY old and should only be used as little as possible. Developers really need to open up their games and create seamless, zoneless worlds. If wolves aren't regularly purged from the near by mountains, they might move into the near by foothills and activate new quests in surrounding settlements to get rid of them. Certain mobs move out from their dens/lairs at night to hunt or drink from a near by creek. I just hate seeing people sit at EXACTLY the same spot waiting for Mob 1 to spawn at X 23, Y145. I mean even if their freakin' rabbits, have them hop around at least a small area and hide in some thick foliage when they see an adventurer.
I'm thankful that games like Tabula Rasa and Age of Conan are finally enacting random mob attacks on towns. Fighting for a town is a whole lot more fun then fighting for XP.
.....................................
...but time flows like a river...
...and history repeats...
-Leader of "The Fighting Irish" in DAoC on Hib/Kay-
MMO AI has always been one of the things I've hated most about the genre. But I am really glad to see games like TR and apparently AoC working to fix that. There's no reason MMO AI has to be so much worse than the AI in other games, and I'm glad that developers are finally recognizing that.
MMO history:
EQ1 - 65 DE Wizard
DAoC - 50 Dwarf Thane, 50 Dwarf Healer
EvE - Amarr, Caldari BShip Pilot
CoH - 40 Ice/Ice Blaster, 40 Dark/Regen Scrapper
WoW - 60 Undead Priest, 60 Tauren Warrior
LoTRO - 30 Hobbit Burglar
Currently Playing - Tabula Rasa
Isn't that two words?
On a more serious note, from what I'm hearing, pve actually sounds interesting in TR.
D.
For now!
Just wait for AoC, the A.I. described for mobs sounds awesome if it works when the game launches.
Dev Diary #4.Video.
The Mobs clearly have a "need":
"those wolves weren't just spawned there and performing animations of eating that deer.. the wolves were out HUNTING .. the A.I. , is programmed with "Need " intelligence... the wolves roamed as a pack.. they "needed" food so they killed that deer.
( you're not going to find the same pack of wolves and the same dead deer in the same place ever it seems..)
in that clip is the end result of that hunt. as far as they described it in this and past interviews related to the A.I. , all the NPC's humanoid AND beast included all have the "Need" programming... they function on the principles of what they need most..
if it's night, they'll "Need" to find fire wood, or "Need" to Build a fire, or "Need" to have a change of the guard.
That's why in the last minute of the thread the DEV said that if you attack a camp the wrong way.. the humanoid NPC's fulfill thier "Need" programming by :
-"Need" to call reinforcements
-"Need" to sound alarm
-"Need" to defend and destroy
etc.etc.etc.
game play and dynamics is going to be incredible and unlike anything we as gamers have ever seen to date."
Lets hope it comes out like that, would be a nice refreshing change.
Indeed awesome
If Funcom pulls the AI - The AOC will be MMO that i will play ...wait a minute ! AOC will be the MMO i will play anyway
Some of the best AI I ever saw was in Saga of Ryzom.
Yet another column that makes me wonder how much experience the MMORPG.com staff really has with MMORPGs.
"whine about a problem in the few games I've actually played, make false generalizations about the genre as a whole, offer no solution that hasn't already been done ... see ya next time!"
I'm all for it - Better MMO AI = More to "Immersive World"