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How much have you spent on Roma Victor?
sempiternal
Member UncommonPosts: 1,082
What is the total you have spent on RV including accounts and VERM?
Post your amount in US dollars and vote (1 pound = 2 dollars).
In spite of my public support for the RV game design and concept in the past, after seeing others such as Vlad and Vepgenus post that they have spent $1500 and $1000, I must be on the fairly conservative end, only spending $150 on RV.
To put this into perspective, a lifetime Lord of The Rings Online account cost $200. Also, RV was released about 15 months ago, so I average about $10 per month. Most subscription games are about $15 per month.
For reference, Pre-order accounts were $30 US, current accounts are $40 US.
$2 US (or £1GBP) buys 500 Sesterces:
1,250 Sesterces = $5
2,500 Sesterces = $10
5,000 Sesterces = $20
10,000 Sesterces = $40
(This was originally posted in the official RV forums, but KFR, the lead developer and president of the company, has been going on a rampage lately, moving, locking, deleting, and even editing his community's posts)
Comments
I have 5 accounts so 200$ USD.
-MrDDT
Good idea to use these forums for this discussion rather than the official forums.
So as KFR already said that $160 is not the correct figure on the locked thread perhaps the OP can begin by correcting his own contribution
Let's be clear about whether the figure includes purchase cost or whether it is just VERM amounts, to be fair that might be why KFR disagrees with $160.
My own contribution is £0/$0. I refuse to buy the game until i see something that is going to be ready to play out of the box rather than a promising investment. Thats what the LSE is for.
Good point. Your total amount should include the cost to purchase your account(s) plus VERM.
I see where I made the error. I have a pre-order account, which were only $30 US instead of the regular $40.
So my actual total is $150 not $160. *corrected*
Sure why not.
I bought 2 accounts on release date so $80. Plus I vermed 10kses 3 or 4 times possibly 5, have to look at my statements to be sure, think it was 4 but will say 3 to be conservative, so $120 verm so $200 total. If it was four (pretty sure it was) that would put it at $240.
Edit: Forgot about the verm I bought for my alt once or twice... 10k each time you do the math.
That conservative ammount alone makes me feel sick enough as it is... shows that I had high hopes for this game, and the way I feel now shows that they let me down big time.
Not giving up on them entirely, but will no longer praise them for work that should have been in on release. And will call them on stupid decisions that they make allong the way. I have paid I have that right.
Weird thing is, even though I had (apparently) paid more than most at the time, KFR ignored my opinions and suggestions asking them to listen to the majority of players that were leaving the game.... My post on Verm, explains alot on why players were leaving the game in droves. I had first hand experiance on that as my verm wasn't lasting near the ammount of time they said it would. 500 ses should last a month as they said...but 10k wasn't lasting a week. And that was just buying basic gear... full set of weapons and tunics(armor I wanted was 20k not happening), and at first tools to craft (mainly tools). That was why I quit crafting, insane prices on tools and extreme craft times. Players were selling bucklers for 500 ses sword was 1000 and spears (a decent one) was 500 or so... so if you are a fighter how the hell was 500 ses supposed to last? Especially when you figure that gear is gonna break fast from training... and you have to replace it (alot of money went that way).
Pretty much you had to be a mooch and take handouts from guilds to survive...but not everyone want's handouts. Some like to make it on their own. Or maybe have something to offer a guild since you aren't a crafter. I used to give away bucklers so players could train with me and to help new players. But at those prices it was not worth the continued investment I was putting in so I stopped. I could see that it would be a continual spiral downhill.
So instead of doing smart buisness and lowering prices and craft times to balance the economy and make verming worthwhile, they stuck with their fanbois that were saying not to verm, that they didn't and were doing just fine on handouts. And who also don't have a life outside RV apparently and can afford to spend 100s of hours working in game making items to sell at those ridiculously high prices...
I thought verm was so if you can't pay or don't want to you could do as they do and make a living by working in game, but those that have a life can pop in and verm and maintain that same level of accomplishment... WTF happend? All that got washed down the drain. It is totally one sided in favor of those that have no life outside RV. And no surprise here, thats about the only players they have left ATM...
It's sad as I would have gladly kept on verming if they had attempted to make the needed changes, as I am sure many others would have. All they need to do is look back through their forums at all the posts for players that had only 1-10 posts saying lower the prices and or lower the craft times. But all they saw was the handfull of players that had 100's+ posts saying. go away noob go play WoW, you want to make your own game go away. Hell they ran those players (and it was alot) away from the game and most haven't bothered to look back. Yet here I am still calling for the changes and still hoping RB will open it's eyes, even though I know my attempt is probably a waste of time. But I still hold out hope.
Yay! Another thread opened up so Shane has an opportunity to complain about how much things cost! The prices stated are dated by the way. Bucklers are now about 1/3 to 1/2 that. Spears, same way. Not sure about swords. As more and more people have skilled up to make things, more things are made. The supply is high so prices go down.
Here's how my guild produced the last bulk order of bucklers we delivered this weekend:
Person A mined the ore and brought it back to Corst.
Person B made a firewood pile and a log pile.
Person C smelted and smithed the ore into nails.
Person D made handles and boards and then completed the bucklers in her tents she set up in town.
Easy for a group, very difficult for an individual. If you want to play solo in Roma Victor, it will cost you as Shane found out. The game is NOT for him. He claimed to be the voice of reason in the Roma Victor forums proposing the game be fundamentally changed from what it is to something totally different. The developers predictably ignored him.
And what was the price on that finished product? Don't leave that out. And I am talking quality items not crap...
How much have you invested BTW?
1) Most of your changes were just down right dumb. I cant put it any kinder then that without lying.
2) I dont know what game you are playing but you can make tons of ses if you did want to put in the game. Being that Im one of the ones that made lots and lots of ses, over 700,000 ses already. So I dont know what you are talking about here.
3) Having a guild in any game is going to help with lots of things like crafting, Im sorry you dont understand the concept of everyone in a guild helps do a part. If you are a warrior you do things that warriors are good at. Like in RV doing mine runs are great for a warrior as it builds skills and stats you need for being a good warrior, also its needed because its hard for a crafter to fight bears, wolves and bandits.
-MrDDT
Anyone who has spent more than $20 a month plus the initial cost of the game has been ripped off, and that is the whole concept of the VERM and similar RMT designs including item shops. They reel you in under the false premise of supposedly being free and rig the mechanics to coerce you to buy more and more.
I just shake my head at the people who spent $1000 and $1500. You guys were exactly the kind of players KFR was hoping for.
1) Most of your changes were just down right dumb. I cant put it any kinder then that without lying.
What was dumb? Making crafting times that are acceptable and doable for players that have a life outside the game? Or them lowering the prices on the NPC merchants enough so that buying a set of gear and food for the month dosent run more than the 500ses they said would last you a month in their own feature page?
In their own words they said they could keep the ses value balanced... I was just telling them to do it.
2) I dont know what game you are playing but you can make tons of ses if you did want to put in the game. Being that Im one of the ones that made lots and lots of ses, over 700,000 ses already. So I dont know what you are talking about here.
Sure you can, anyone can if they don't have a life outside the game. But for those that do and don't have all the time in the world to piddle arround with the timesinks and all the grinding to be able to amass that fortune, VERM was supposed to be their option...
3) Having a guild in any game is going to help with lots of things like crafting, Im sorry you dont understand the concept of everyone in a guild helps do a part. If you are a warrior you do things that warriors are good at. Like in RV doing mine runs are great for a warrior as it builds skills and stats you need for being a good warrior, also its needed because its hard for a crafter to fight bears, wolves and bandits.
I helped my guild with training, not digging, as I was a fighter. All the rest you mentioned wolves, bears and bandits were just put in... had no effect on anything so crafters could do that just fine. I helped out when I had the time, but for the most part when I log in I want to play and have fun not waste my time with stuff I want nothing to do with at all... When you log into EQ2 or WoW or any game you go and do what intrest you and what you have time to do. Not everyone raids as they dont have the time not everyone wanders arround gathering crafting materials as they don't have that much time they just want to have fun the way they want for the time they are paying for...
Hope you can understand that concept...
Beyond that I would gladly accompany my guilds crafters to the mines and back providing them protection from bandits and barbs. But I refuse to log into a game I paid for to have someone tell me I cant have fun and play the way I want today because I have to work and get this and that.... F**K that I paid for this game not anyone else, noone tells me what I have to do or when. And it is not my fault RB made the game so hard on the crafters that it requires that much work, I asked them to address that, as did many others, but they refused. And look at the state of the game now... speaks for it's self.
Popped in with my alt to erring just a few mins ago, here is what new players face when they log in.
Keep in mind that RB says 500 ses will last a month or more...
New player is not gonna know where players merchants are to get these (supposedly )good deals on bucklers. They are gonna naturally use the NPC merchants when they log in, and what do they see? Prices showed wooden buckler 645, 650, 545... on and on. All the prices are the same as they were from day one.
BS all I can say, they see that and figure the cost of ses and say screw this. And RB wonders why they lost so many players of the supposed 5k accounts they sold in the first few days... LOL.
Hmmmm, I wonder too...
No one buys from the NPC Merchants. You need to speak to a player and get a good deal. Bucks run from 125 ses to 150 if bought from a player. Actually play a little longer before you pass judgement.
Your 5 minute log in ain't crap
$30 for me, or w/e it was for pre-release.
No one buys from the NPC Merchants. You need to speak to a player and get a good deal. Bucks run from 125 ses to 150 if bought from a player. Actually play a little longer before you pass judgement.
Your 5 minute log in ain't crap
Actually read a bit before crap spews from you mouth lol. I said for NEW PLAYERS that don't know where or even about, player merchants.....
And if noone buys from them WTF did they put them in new player towns for or for that matter why did they put them in the game???? Two guesses ...rip off.
personally, I'm ashamed to admit I'm in the 100-200 zone, with just two accounts, I wonder how I ever brought myself to VERM at all....
I have vermed 10k several times, bought the two accounts of course....
I use VERM money to pay for things not provided by nor paid for by the guild. All of these are "nice to have's" and either are not necessary for me to progress in the game (rent on an extra building I rarely use) or are things I purchased to save time instead of making them or gathering them myself. A third category would be goat carcasses to make tents.
This is only an estimation as I don't have exact records of money and time spent, but I am guessing that since game launch, I have paid about 30 cents per hour to play the game.
I just want to show how your statements make no sense. Lets just go and point them out.
Its not a matter that you were telling them to do it its a matter of that what you are telling them to do is mess up the balance.
Name a game where buying from the NPC vendors is cheaper then buying off players? Please tell me 1 MMO where thats the case?
NPC vendors are there like in all MMO's with any kind of ECON to allow people to buy at a high price quickly. Thats it. If you dont want to look around to get a deal buy from the NPC vendor.
Verm is your option if you dont wish to play as much or work as much as others, if you only want to log in and kill people (which is whats the most costly part of playing RV btw) you will have to verm a lot more. Im just showing that you dont need to verm at all if you dont wish too.
You can grind really cheap in this game with very little time put in to get the items you need to grind.
Wolves and bears were just put in? Man what do you call "just" its been MONTHS since they have been in. Bandits yes are new, however there were stuff also before bears and wolves. What about the AUX at the mines? Or the freemen that were holding the minds for a few weeks?
I dont know about you but when I log in WOW or EQ2 and I want to go PVP, I cant now can I? Why because they force you to lvl up, and they also force you to get items because without those items you are worthless. Not only that they dont have the option to buy items with real money now do they? WOW is the worst for that. So using WOW as one of your options is a poor one. On top of all that, you can get into PVP and be good without putting near as much time into grinding/leveling as you have to in WOW.
So what "fun" are you talking about? Because Im missing what you think is fun. Maybe you just dont know wtf you are talking about. Thats what it sounds like to me.
Maybe you are missing the point. Its not hard on crafters at all, in fact if its hard its hard on warriors. Forcing them to either verm, or do crafting. Thats the real problem with this game is that warriors have major costs and little gains. Meaning if they go out and fight they almost always end up losing more then they gain in the end. Mostly because this game isnt player skill based.
One thing that addresses this is adding Bandits. Which helps a lot. Wolves, bears, goats and other NPCs respawning faster helps also.
Now about you being told that you "have" to do something. No one is telling you anything. If you dont want to play dont. But dont expect the game to be free 100%. Either you can verm and not worry about crafting just to make money, or you can craft to support your other habits or you can mix it up like most people do.
You say people that have a life outside this game cant do anything because of prices on the NPC vendors. Well buying from those vendors is dumb, any noob will learn that soon as they play the game or use the exp from other games and know to ask around for prices or items. Guilds also help cut a lot of the costs. So verming prices for being nothing but a warrior (which again is where the most money is used) is cut greatly by just being in a guild.
If anything other games are the ones telling what you have to do it. Sucks is Im defending this game on all the points that are good. Which are few. You bring up the best points of RV and try to make it sound bad. Yet they are better then other games out there in these points. If you want cry about something bring up other points, like lack of good AI or something
-MrDDT
I just want to show how your statements make no sense. Lets just go and point them out.
I thought verm was so if you can't pay or don't want to you could do as they do and make a living by working in game, but those that have a life can pop in and verm and maintain that same level of accomplishment... WTF happend? All that got washed down the drain. It is totally one sided in favor of those that have no life outside RV. And no surprise here, thats about the only players they have left ATM...
Lets use my whole statement there, as it does make sense if you look at the whole thing...
That is what they said verm was for but it is not. Many folks would have been more than willing to verm if it was worth while. And yeah the only players left atm are ones that are working overtime in game to get ahead for the (imaginary) rush of players that will buy their gear and make them rich in game...
Its not a matter that you were telling them to do it its a matter of that what you are telling them to do is mess up the balance.
Name a game where buying from the NPC vendors is cheaper then buying off players? Please tell me 1 MMO where thats the case?
NPC vendors are there like in all MMO's with any kind of ECON to allow people to buy at a high price quickly. Thats it. If you dont want to look around to get a deal buy from the NPC vendor.
Mess up the balace they never had? Come now....get real here.
The NPC merchants in most MMO's have average gear at average prices, to get the better gear you go to player merchants and pay a little more. Here the NPC's sell average gear, good gear and crap gear for damn near the same HIGH prices, and the players think they have to charge more than that as they actually made their's the NPC vendors did not and it took them forever to do it.
As for looking arround to find the player merchants, that wouldn't be so bad if they actually has stores with some signage... used to be the only known player vendor in corst was Augir, and that's becaue he was set up right outside the arena. And his prices were just as bad as the NPC's in most cases. Sure you could save a hundred ses or so but still would spend well more than the 500 ses that should last a month... as you have to buy more than one shield or spear at a time and wait for him be be arround to buy the next time... Who knows when that will be.
And that would be for just buying and replacing weapons and shields for training, since they break constantly... which is lame especially for training. Just another built in sink for the game.
Verm is your option if you dont wish to play as much or work as much as others, if you only want to log in and kill people (which is whats the most costly part of playing RV btw) you will have to verm a lot more. Im just showing that you dont need to verm at all if you dont wish too.
You mean you don't need to verm if you don't want to have fun in the few hours you have alloted to play the game each night? Come now, I know you don't think this game's crafting is fun... lame no excitement while you stare at the same crap for hours watching a blue bar get smaller and click again...
You can grind really cheap in this game with very little time put in to get the items you need to grind.
WHAT? how many shields and spears and whatever other weapons you used to train/grind in, did you go through to get a decent skill lvl? Very cheap my a$$...
Wolves and bears were just put in? Man what do you call "just" its been MONTHS since they have been in. Bandits yes are new, however there were stuff also before bears and wolves. What about the AUX at the mines? Or the freemen that were holding the minds for a few weeks?
I know when they were put in , but where the hell were they ? They were dead before anyone but maybe 5 people(who had all the time in the world to look) killed them all and used them up in their crafting... Yeah they supposedly added more and all that with the update recently.
I dont know about you but when I log in WOW or EQ2 and I want to go PVP, I cant now can I? Why because they force you to lvl up, and they also force you to get items because without those items you are worthless. Not only that they dont have the option to buy items with real money now do they? WOW is the worst for that. So using WOW as one of your options is a poor one. On top of all that, you can get into PVP and be good without putting near as much time into grinding/leveling as you have to in WOW.
I don't like WoW or EQ were just examples, but I don't see how this game is much better or even compares in the areas you mention...
You still have to grind up skills (for ever)to even think about being able to hold your own in combat or you had wasted HOURS of running and walking to find a fight...
And hell they make you get items yeah, but they are worthless in this game except to gring skills with lol.(ohh and sink money in)
So what "fun" are you talking about? Because Im missing what you think is fun. Maybe you just dont know wtf you are talking about. Thats what it sounds like to me.
So I pose that same question to you lol.
Maybe you are missing the point. Its not hard on crafters at all, in fact if its hard its hard on warriors. Forcing them to either verm, or do crafting. Thats the real problem with this game is that warriors have major costs and little gains. Meaning if they go out and fight they almost always end up losing more then they gain in the end. Mostly because this game isnt player skill based.
So what are you argueing with me about lol? Thats what I been saying basically. Warriors are being forced to partake in the boring ass crafting that they want no part of when they should be able to just verm a bit ecah month and be fine. like $5 dollars worth like RB said. It's not hard on folks that want to do nothing but craft and have all the time in the world to do it, but for the rest of us, we want fun and aren't looking to monopolize in a damn game...
Problem is it is the crafting times that force the crafters to sell for high prices (as well as the set prices on NPC merchants), and the rapid wear and tear on gear forcing everyone to buy buy buy... it wears on you as much as it wears on your wallet.
One thing that addresses this is adding Bandits. Which helps a lot. Wolves, bears, goats and other NPCs respawning faster helps also.
Maybe a teeny bit...
Now about you being told that you "have" to do something. No one is telling you anything. If you dont want to play dont. But dont expect the game to be free 100%. Either you can verm and not worry about crafting just to make money, or you can craft to support your other habits or you can mix it up like most people do.
Haven't you read what I posted at all man? I was saying that those that DO NOT WANT TO PLAY CONSTANTLY TO MAKE A LIVING, should be able to verm about $5-10 each month...EACH MONTH(which RB should love) and be just fine in game, without having to partake in activities that do not intrest them at all.
You say people that have a life outside this game cant do anything because of prices on the NPC vendors. Well buying from those vendors is dumb, any noob will learn that soon as they play the game or use the exp from other games and know to ask around for prices or items. Guilds also help cut a lot of the costs. So verming prices for being nothing but a warrior (which again is where the most money is used) is cut greatly by just being in a guild.
Hell yeah buying from the vendors in this current state is dumb, why the hell did they even bother putting them in game? To rip off new players thats why. When they don't know where or how to get a better deal yet. That alone ran the majority of the 5K accounts they sold off, on day one of release... think about it (not difficult to comprehend). You may say lag, and I am sure it had a hand in it, but most people know that a game is laggy on release as they have bugs to fix... but couple that with the insane prices they saw and the value their ses had they said hell with this (rip off, scam). Read the old posts from players that didn't have many posts and you will see(you know the players that were ran off by the fanbois).
I do agree on the guild's though, it did help a tiny bit, but only if you join a extremely large guild... I prefer, as many do, a smaller friendly guild that have the same goals and just want to have fun and not monopolize on everyone elses misinformation and misfortune...
If anything other games are the ones telling what you have to do it. Sucks is Im defending this game on all the points that are good. Which are few. You bring up the best points of RV and try to make it sound bad. Yet they are better then other games out there in these points. If you want cry about something bring up other points, like lack of good AI or something
Not sure why you are defending their 2 bad points either?? I thought their good points were the community driven content and the unique combat... Both of which have fallen off in standing quite a bit over the last year IMO.
Verm and crafting could be in on the good side if they had balanced them to be fun(keyword FUN) and not timesinks and money sinks...
Even though the crafting is BORING, it wouldn't be so bad if it was sped up. And Verming wouldn't be such a waste it your money would actually last longer useing and playing the way you want in the time you have alloted...
What I am saying is not so terrible and not so hard for them to implement.
I mean if everyone was verming $10 a month as it was worth it, and crafting wasn't such a boring drag and since it's not so laggy, more people might just play this game again, and RB just might have enough money coming in that they can hire some damn help to finish the game sometime in the next 10yrs.....
But whatever right?
If you play at least 70 hours per month, you would be better off playing a MMOG with a flat monthly subscription rate. Not only could you find a game less expensive and therefore more of a value, which I think was your point, but a better quality game as well.
You telling me that if you pop in verm, you cant maintain the same level of accomplishment?
Do you really believe that? I dont think anyone would agree with you saying that people that craft all day to make money vs people that verm to get money cant do the samethings in game.
The reason why the only players they have left are left is just because they believe in the game getting better. People like you want a game thats finished today. Im not saying thats a bad opinion just saying thats how it is.
Im sure thats why most of the people that are playing now are doing it for. Is that so wrong? However, once the game is done people can verm and get whatever they want in game (other then skills). I dont see a problem, they didnt lie about that (RB that is). So why do you feel that verming cant do these things for people?
First off in most MMO's NPCs always sell the same item for HIGHER, it would make no sense if they didnt because a player would never sell anything. So its not avg prices its ALWAYS higher on the NPC vendor.
Ahh no players dont charge MORE then the vendors, wtf are you talking about? If a player is charging more you are dumb for buying it, just goto the NPC. What a moron.
On top of that players are WAY cheaper, sometimes its lower by 1/2 or more.
Ya it makes no sense to have equipment break, thats just dumb. Damn RB for putting this money sink into the game.
What a moron. Do you really believe the shit you are saying?
Oh ya of course those vendors are going to be high priced (still lower then NPC vendors like you said by 100ses), its because they are ALWAYS STOCKED AND RIGHT AT THE ARENA WHERE YOU TRAIN!!!!!!!
Maybe if you LOOKED AROUND you could get them for a lower price, much much much lower. Hell in Erring they sell for 90ses to 150ses. Thats a hell of a mark down.
On top of that, you dont even need to train with a buckler, thats one of the most costly ways to train, granted its one of the fastest and easiest but still its one of the highest priced ways.
1 spear costs about 100ses each.
20 bandanas costs about 20 or 30 ses each. 600ses
100 forks costs free, or maybe 1 ses each.
Total = 700 ses to master it. Plus you dont even need to use bandanas and I wouldnt use them now if I were to train again, so I can train other skills.
Looks very cheap to me.
Im sorry that you dont ever log in to go hunting but I found many of them even weeks after respawn. Meaning it wasnt like the day they respawned I would go killing.
You dont see how the Econ is much better then WOW? Name some items that you can sell in WOW that are worth a damn? Tell me of the great crafting system thats in the game in WOW? Tell me how you can BUY MONEY IN WOW SO YOU DONT HAVE TO FARM!!!
The last is the MAIN f***ing point you are trying to make that you want so much and WOW bans people for doing it.
Again, I can get max combat skills in RV in 3 days of play time. Can you say the same for WOW? Or EQ?
So you are saying you can fight naked and be just as effective in this game? Dude you are making no sense. Items are not a money sink, they are made to give the game a better feel of real life. Also a sense of worth, and loss.
[quote]Originally posted by MrDDT
So what "fun" are you talking about? Because Im missing what you think is fun. Maybe you just dont know wtf you are talking about. Thats what it sounds like to me.
Fun to me is the PVP which I think is broke, but has nothing to do with crafting being to hard or to costly, it has to do with player skills not mattering at all (player skills are the ones behind the keyboard not toon skills). So that has nothing to do with the crappy points you are saying because the shit coming out of your keyboard is just that.
THEY CAN VERM AND BE JUST FINE, how is that agreeing with you? Thats your whole point and they CAN verm. My point of it being hard on warriors isnt that they cant verm and be fine, its the fact that they have to verm to get whatever they want because there is little support (now bandits) from the game they can do to make money.It doesnt force crafters to sell high, hell they dont even sell very high at all. I have no idea where you are getting these retarded thoughts from
The wear and tear is harsh on some items but great on others. Weapons last a long long time, as does armor.
Shields is the worst and it needs to be more balanced. But still its not that bad. You should be talking about things like rags.
Well you tell me things that dont intrest you and I can tell you how to do it. Because you cant seem to figure out that you CAN verm to do what you want. Now 5 to 10$ a month might not let you run around giving items away or dying 10+ times a day but it will go a LONG way to do many many many things you or anyone could want.
Dude I think you must be like 5 years old or something because you cant understand why a game would have NPC vendors. Its so people can buy the items they NEED at anytime, without having to worry about other players being on or active, or even talking to other players. Its not to make money off these people. Hell if anything new players can make money really easy by doing the quests from the master, yet how many people do you see doing that? like 1%. You can make like 1k just from the master quests.
Ive read 90% of the posts on the forums and I would say thats NOT the case at all. Most players left because of many other reasons but it wasnt because they felt that the ses they had wasnt worth anything.
Well right now there isnt even an extremely large guild so I dont know wtf you are talking about. Maybe you mean a guild of like 3 people or something. But if you plan on that type of guild helping you out much and you not doing anything, I think you are dumber then I thought. Which isnt saying much at all.
Those are good points, the first is going bad, and the second never was well off, only in the idea of it. Thats the type of point you should be making. You shouldnt be making it sound as if this verm is all messed up when its one of the few working things in the game.
You know any game you play is going to be a timesink? No matter how you cut it, its a timesink. Some people like this "boring" crafting, some like combat, some like rp, some like killing NPCs, others like building stuff. The game has many things in it for many people. If you dont like part of it dont do it. The GRINDING (which is what I really think you mean by you talk about timesinks) is low compaired to other games. If you were to focus. Ie, combat skills, or specialize in crafting areas.
Might be boring to you but to others its not, and if they sped it up it would unbalance the econ. Maybe you dont understand that, but its a fact.Again your points are not valid as Ive already pointed out. Please show me where one of your points shows that verming cant support you through your training?
You talk about 5 to 10$ a month, well thats 1250 to 2500 ses per month. Now depending on what you do, thats more then enough to get trained up, and fight real pvp battles.
Sure you might not beable to fight 10 battles a day, but you can fight some and do a lot of train. Also you might not do the fastest or most costly training but you could train effectively and pretty fast. More money could train you about 20% faster. Thats not shabby. Thats all saying if you do it without a guild that helps you, doing it with a guild that helps you, you can look at the fastest training and unlimited battles, for free.
-MrDDT
Just FYI this poll is going to be worthless unless EVERYONE posts how much, because people that dont even play will be voting.
-MrDDT
You telling me that if you pop in verm, you cant maintain the same level of accomplishment?
Do you really believe that? I dont think anyone would agree with you saying that people that craft all day to make money vs people that verm to get money cant do the samethings in game.
Been saying that... NO they can't maintain the same level... Unless they verm a small fortune...
And they can't do the same things in game as one is crafting all day long (crafting takes forever in this game) and the other just wants to log in and have fun killing or defending for an hour or two... Unless the crafter has an alt and thats not what I am talking about I am talking about new players with one char.
The reason why the only players they have left are left is just because they believe in the game getting better. People like you want a game thats finished today. Im not saying thats a bad opinion just saying thats how it is.
Should have been finished on release or an announcement should have been posted saying the game is 1/8th finished...
But no I know the game is not done and is gonna take a while, I just want the damn thing to be worth investing in period. ATM is is far from it in many ways.
Im sure thats why most of the people that are playing now are doing it for. Is that so wrong? However, once the game is done people can verm and get whatever they want in game (other then skills). I dont see a problem, they didnt lie about that (RB that is). So why do you feel that verming cant do these things for people?
No problem with those that want to do that but RB has made the game entirely for them and everyone else(with a life) is SOL even though we paid for the damn game too. So yeah they lied.. And for why verming can't do these things for others...read up already said why a whole bunch of times.
First off in most MMO's NPCs always sell the same item for HIGHER, it would make no sense if they didnt because a player would never sell anything. So its not avg prices its ALWAYS higher on the NPC vendor.
I said AVERAGE ITEMS for AVERAGE PRICES, to get the better stuff you have to go to players... Have you never played another game? When have you ever seen a much sought after item on a NPC vendor in a MMO? Vendors sell avg crap for avg prices...Get a clue...
Why the hell would they put a AH in game if you could get the same shit from a NPC vendor???? SO players can buy BETTER STUFF from players...
Ahh no players dont charge MORE then the vendors, wtf are you talking about? If a player is charging more you are dumb for buying it, just goto the NPC. What a moron.
On top of that players are WAY cheaper, sometimes its lower by 1/2 or more.
Players sell BETTER STUFF for HIGHER PRICES...
HERE NPC good gear is like QL 80 avg is 50-60 and crap is 40 and lower... NPC sell all for a range of 300-560 for shields (just avg not exact).
And I was talking about players selling High QL99 gear... noone is gonna pay those prices to a player for a low QL shield, that they could buy from the NPC for the same price but higher QL...
Anyone with a brain can see that it would be stupid to sell a shield at 99QL(that took forever to make) for lower than the NPC merchants sell their 80QL shields for...
Now once you get into mass production thats a different story... But when all this went down their was no mass production, and even now mass production is still limited as you have to have many many different work stations to mass produce most items... Instead of being able to change your crafting values like you can in any recent game...
Ya it makes no sense to have equipment break, thats just dumb. Damn RB for putting this money sink into the game.
What a moron. Do you really believe the shit you are saying?
Oh ya of course those vendors are going to be high priced (still lower then NPC vendors like you said by 100ses), its because they are ALWAYS STOCKED AND RIGHT AT THE ARENA WHERE YOU TRAIN!!!!!!!
Maybe if you LOOKED AROUND you could get them for a lower price, much much much lower. Hell in Erring they sell for 90ses to 150ses. Thats a hell of a mark down.
On top of that, you dont even need to train with a buckler, thats one of the most costly ways to train, granted its one of the fastest and easiest but still its one of the highest priced ways.
Equipment beraking is lame ESPECIALLY FOR TRAINING... don't twist my words... I think they should break in REAL COMBAT USE... but it should be way toned down since say a decent sword on avg cost what 800-1000 ses? And a decent shield is about 300-500 ses...and 500 ses according to RB will last a month or more? LOL
Again yeah looking arround is going to be maybe slightly cheaper but not everyone has all night to look arround most have a set time they can play before they have to get back to reality... I am sure you don't but most do...
And keep in mind noone wants to thumb wrestle... we want combat... like roman combat maybe... So yeah they will buy gear, shields included.
1 spear costs about 100ses each.
20 bandanas costs about 20 or 30 ses each. 600ses
100 forks costs free, or maybe 1 ses each.
Total = 700 ses to master it. Plus you dont even need to use bandanas and I wouldnt use them now if I were to train again, so I can train other skills.
Looks very cheap to me.
Dude WTF? 700ses to master... more like 700 to get started to master, after replacing all that about 20 times you might be halfway to 3/4 the way there... looks cheap to me?? LOL
I know you aren't trying to say you mastered your spear skill with one spear LMFAO... I been through about 10 just getting it to about 30 I think...(noone arround to train with) What expliots you using? Please share with the rest of us.
Im sorry that you dont ever log in to go hunting but I found many of them even weeks after respawn. Meaning it wasnt like the day they respawned I would go killing.
Yeah, I am sorry that wandering arround in a ugly and empty repetitive environment, hoping I stumble upon a animal to kill after a few hours is not that exciting or fun to me... and hoping that someone didn't just make the same boring trek right before I did...
You dont see how the Econ is much better then WOW? Name some items that you can sell in WOW that are worth a damn? Tell me of the great crafting system thats in the game in WOW? Tell me how you can BUY MONEY IN WOW SO YOU DONT HAVE TO FARM!!!
The last is the MAIN f***ing point you are trying to make that you want so much and WOW bans people for doing it.
I never farmed shit and had plenty of money and all the gear I needed for my flat monthly fee... Once again I had a life...
Again, I can get max combat skills in RV in 3 days of play time. Can you say the same for WOW? Or EQ?
WOW goes to show you have no life for sure lol....
So you are saying you can fight naked and be just as effective in this game? Dude you are making no sense. Items are not a money sink, they are made to give the game a better feel of real life. Also a sense of worth, and loss.
[quote]Originally posted by MrDDT
So what "fun" are you talking about? Because Im missing what you think is fun. Maybe you just dont know wtf you are talking about. Thats what it sounds like to me.
No I am saying that it is pointless to buy items(for a small fortune) that you should have like a normal person would(atleast the char type you play would), because a idiot like you with no life that can grind for 3 days straight maxing skills will kill ya in one hit and pop you lose a expensive item just like that one hit no fun... Now if the items made it so you with you max skills would have to FIGHT a person for a bit with say half the skill you have it may be worth the investment. Either way it would be stupid for that person to go one on one with ya but most would travel with folks and if the battles were more than a one hit click fest it might just be fun...
A sense of worth and loss is all fine and dandy, but not when that loss is a huge hit to your wallet IRL... Not everyone can afford to pay what we have to pay in this game to survive and keep geared up. Small hit is fine but huge is not cool at all... And replacing a lost sword each day or a lost hamata is a huge hit for most the people that wanted to play this game... So they left.
Fun to me is the PVP which I think is broke, but has nothing to do with crafting being to hard or to costly, it has to do with player skills not mattering at all (player skills are the ones behind the keyboard not toon skills). So that has nothing to do with the crappy points you are saying because the shit coming out of your keyboard is just that.
I agree that PVP is screwed up in part from what I mentioned just above here...
You may try to live in a world all rose covered and smelling good thinking it is just one thing wrong, but in reality it is a combination of many things leading to PVP sucking. Including the points I have mentioned here...
Think about it if crafting times were lower and prices were lower(hand in hand those two) we would have plenty of items by now to go arround. And everyone that has invested enought time working hard in game(didn't want to pay) or invested enough ses (and BTW $300 is more than f**king enough IMO or $39 a month), would be able to afford to stay geared up. Everyone would be able to use more gear to train up(not so damned costly), so most would be skilled. And we could have those huge battles of legion marchin against hord we heard about but never seen.
And yeah I agree that player skill should matter more like if you hit someone in the leg they move slower or in the head and their vision is blurry or arm and they swing slower and you can move away easier... many things could help but thats not gonna happen anytime soon... especially not players able to pull off F**KING one hit kills... (again gear should remove that entirely) Yeah one hit kills are possible but not fun and especiall not fun or ok in a game where shit costs a small fortune IRL...
THEY CAN VERM AND BE JUST FINE, how is that agreeing with you? Thats your whole point and they CAN verm. My point of it being hard on warriors isnt that they cant verm and be fine, its the fact that they have to verm to get whatever they want because there is little support (now bandits) from the game they can do to make money.It doesnt force crafters to sell high, hell they dont even sell very high at all. I have no idea where you are getting these retarded thoughts from
The wear and tear is harsh on some items but great on others. Weapons last a long long time, as does armor.
Shields is the worst and it needs to be more balanced. But still its not that bad. You should be talking about things like rags.
OK... if you are selling lemonaid for a quarter and you see that on every other corner kids are selling it for fifty cent and they are selling like hot cakes are you gonna be a idiot and continue selling for a quarter??? Economics... Now if you go and buy a shit load of lemonaid for next to nothing and plaster a huge sign showing you are selling for a quarter your sales will go up but you will be taking a slight loss for more buisness. All their prices will come down or they will move to a new location. But if they all move away you would be an idiot for not raising your prices a bit to take advantage of the lack of competition...
And in this game their is hardly anyone playing so I would guess that players are taking advantage of that ...
Rags? What are you on your period? I am trying to block weapons not flow... LOL
Well you tell me things that dont intrest you and I can tell you how to do it. Because you cant seem to figure out that you CAN verm to do what you want. Now 5 to 10$ a month might not let you run around giving items away or dying 10+ times a day but it will go a LONG way to do many many many things you or anyone could want.
Well TBH not much intrests me in this game ATM... The only thing I could do was GRIND till my eyes bleed from looking at the same frozen screen for hours... listening to "urgh" "cling" "urgh" "cling"... While my weapon and shield I just bought were withering away...
As I had said before it would be stupid running arroung looking for a fight in this game with low skills... Thats just asking to throw more money away.
If you havent figured it out by now I like combat and yeah that includes PVP...that I cannot partake in untill I have ground all my skills to and effective lvls.
Trust me I could NOW log in and do fine as I WILL NOT INVEST ANY MORE MONEY AS I KNOW IT IS JUST A WASTE(I bet thats what RB wants from everyone LOL), I care more for new players and the way it is presented to them,And not much has changed from the way it was presented to me(and the 4,800 others that left) at release.
Dude I think you must be like 5 years old or something because you cant understand why a game would have NPC vendors. Its so people can buy the items they NEED at anytime, without having to worry about other players being on or active, or even talking to other players. Its not to make money off these people. Hell if anything new players can make money really easy by doing the quests from the master, yet how many people do you see doing that? like 1%. You can make like 1k just from the master quests.
I understand NPC vendors... Just not RB's version of them.
They should have NPC's selling shields and spears as well as swords and armor, at QL lvl 10-20 for about 50 ses for a shield, 25ses for a spear, 75 for a sword and about 100 for armor. Thats about where the prices should be for new players and it would match up with their statement that 500ses would last a month.
But again with crafting times like they are who the hell would want to sell their wares for that cheap even if it is low QL?
I had posted a while back that you should be able to set the QL of your project before you start it and the lower the QL the quicker the project would be this would be perfect and solve it all but did anyone listen or care no I got you want a different game and all that shit from the fanbois.....
Ive read 90% of the posts on the forums and I would say thats NOT the case at all. Most players left because of many other reasons but it wasnt because they felt that the ses they had wasnt worth anything.
I read many that did say VERM IS A RIP OFF LIKE ASIAN MMO STORES... your telling me you havent see any of those? Or did you just not take the time to read and comprehend what they were saying before you told them to go play WoW like everyone else was, I mean the other(handfull of) fanbois were.LOL
I know you are upset with the game for other reasons now, but I am pretty sure you were probably in that bunch...
Well right now there isnt even an extremely large guild so I dont know wtf you are talking about. Maybe you mean a guild of like 3 people or something. But if you plan on that type of guild helping you out much and you not doing anything, I think you are dumber then I thought. Which isnt saying much at all.
You know perfectly well what guilds I am talking about, PI and the 18th(i think 18th)... Supposedly the "large ones".
Like I had said I don't ask for handouts... if they offer it fine but I ain't gonna beg for equipment. And I gave my guild all my old tools and the baskets I had to use to store them in. Paid quite a bit for them as a NOOB(first few days) as you like to say, since I didn't know where to get them cheaper. But I had to hold onto them as selling them to a NPC was out of the question that would be stupid pay 200 for some tool and sell it for change lol, what a joke.
I gave spare shileds and spears that were given to me by others to them as well and if someone didn't have one I would give the a shield or spear to train with, even though they may have had one they could run and get I figured I could help save them time and some money.
That just the kind of player I am and the kind of player i like to guild up with... Is that a bad thing?
The main thing I was planning on providing my guild was protection and help when we are at war, all I asked for was a body to train with and we had a few that were fighters doing the same thing so we trained with eachother while the crafters crafted grinding their skills... we were grinding ours...
Those are good points, the first is going bad, and the second never was well off, only in the idea of it. Thats the type of point you should be making. You shouldnt be making it sound as if this verm is all messed up when its one of the few working things in the game.
It's(verm) on the right track just off by a few knotches..... those knotches are set too high as I have explained if you bothered to read it.
If it was working (100%) KFR wouldn't be bitching about players making suggestions and not verming lol. He would be rolling in verm. But he is not and I have explained why, if you don't want to hear it like he dosent(want to hear suggestions)fine. And it will stay the same as will whole state of the game.... as they are(all parts of the game including verm) all tied together.
You know any game you play is going to be a timesink? No matter how you cut it, its a timesink. Some people like this "boring" crafting, some like combat, some like rp, some like killing NPCs, others like building stuff. The game has many things in it for many people. If you dont like part of it dont do it. The GRINDING (which is what I really think you mean by you talk about timesinks) is low compaired to other games. If you were to focus. Ie, combat skills, or specialize in crafting areas.
Man on their feature page it said(may have changed it) NO LEVEL GRIND...LOL except they have about a dozen levels to grind for each profession... WTF happened? GREED
I meant timesinks for crafting in the time it takes but also grinding for crafting(skill gains) as well as for fighters. Timesinks as they don't want you to max out in 3 days... or have alot to sell and not need to verm often... GREED
But yeah I know thats the buisness of MMO's... Only RV took it too far and have run off their (Majority) fanbase. Coupled with the fact that the game was is and will be incomplete for years to come.
Might be boring to you but to others its not, and if they sped it up it would unbalance the econ. Maybe you dont understand that, but its a fact.Again your points are not valid as Ive already pointed out. Please show me where one of your points shows that verming cant support you through your training?
Read my responses above...
You talk about 5 to 10$ a month, well thats 1250 to 2500 ses per month. Now depending on what you do, thats more then enough to get trained up, and fight real pvp battles.
Sure you might not beable to fight 10 battles a day, but you can fight some and do a lot of train. Also you might not do the fastest or most costly training but you could train effectively and pretty fast. More money could train you about 20% faster. Thats not shabby. Thats all saying if you do it without a guild that helps you, doing it with a guild that helps you, you can look at the fastest training and unlimited battles, for free.
Again for free is not what RB should be looking for... but that is what people try to do as buying ses through VERM is a waste atm. "All you have to do is work in the game", thats what I keep hearing and RB should be freaking out about it... as they are not gonna get the needed cash flo to finish this game anywhere near soon or the way it needs to be. Everything will be half assed as it has been and take forever.
Remember the tree exploit? People hiding in the trees, killing people without being able to be hit back. I bitched about that got in a arguement with KFR about it being lame and needing to be corrected. He tried some lame excuse about it being like they were hiding...Matter of fact that was the last time he would consider listening to me just ignores me now lol... Prolly wasn't my bitching that made him fix it but still...that is an example of their halfassedness.
They need more money so they can hire more help and make shit right the first time arround, and they won't get it by people not wanting or needing to verm, I am just offering ways for them to make the game more appeaing to players so verming is not such a waste of money and is something that people would consider doing more often.
Geez that was alot of typing...
Hope you understand I do want the game to do well, as I have invested money and a bit of time in it too, but I can clearly see that noone is gonna wat to throw money away at the rate that this game requires ATM. And if they don't want to invest money or don't have to as everyone suggests, they how are they gonna afford to improve the game or hire people to get it done quicker? They can't. Augir and his alts and Vep are gonna get tired of playing with themselves sooner or later and then RB has no income...
These are just suggestions to turn that arround and whether you agree with them or not they are valid points, that yes, would require some sacrifice and time for balancing but would in the end produce more steady income for RB and a more stable future for RV.
That said, DDT I don't hate ya I respect your opinion's (and they are valid on PVP) but I have mine too when it comes to verm as I don't have a tone of time to play games and the time I have I would prefer to pay a little bit a play a little bit. But I saw and I was playing(my char) not anyone else and saw it was burning up money like ti was going out of style. Not by my spending habits but just buying and keeping up gear. It was alot worse in the begining learning and trying out different things like crafting, but TBH it hasn't changed a whole lot...
Anyways hope ya read this and atleast try to understand where I am coming from.
Shane
OMFG, Im tired of talking to you. I just want to point out something thats so insanely obvious.
Merchants in RV sell everything HIGHER then what you players sell. Thats a FACT!!!
Not only is it like that in RV, its like that in other games too. Yes in other games there is many items NOT on the NPC vendors, and they are costly. They are costly because they are RARE.
Bucklers in RV are sold for around 150ses in RV, as you pointed out NPC vendors sell for much higher. I know in Erring they go fro 300+ses on the NPC vendor.
And you know what people still buy them because they dont care. They want an item right that second.
Now I could go through your whole post again and retype what Ive already said but Im tried, you will never change your view because you are a retard.
We are not arguing over a difference of opinion you are arguing over the facts.
Facts, NPC vendors in other games ALWAYS sell for higher then players. That same fact is here in RV. Not only is it here in RV, but RV is much much much much lower priced off players then most games as a %.
You talk about me not having a life because I can grind for 3 days straight. First off I didnt say that, I said 3 days of playtime. Do you know what play time is? Thats logging in playing however many hours you play and logging off. Thats play time. Add all your play time up and POOF you should mastered those skills in 3 days of PLAY TIME.
If you play 3 hours a day, then it will take you 24 days to master your combat skills. If you play 12 hours a day, then it will take you 6 days to master them. Do you understand how that works?
So if you are a person that plays a small amount of time per day say 1 or 3 hours a day, it will take you about 72 to 24 days. If you have no life as you call it, and play 12 hours a day, it will take you 6 days.
<Mod edit>
Dont bring up other points other then why verm isnt working. You going off on how the game is broke in other ways, in which I totally agree. It has nothing to do with the fact that prices are to high in game and that verming isnt an option for people.
-MrDDT
Yes since it doesnt have rares, HIGH QL items do take that spot, however, STILL those prices are less then the vendors you know why? Because the vendors stock the SAME DAMN ITEMS. Go look if you dont believe me. This game has no rares, the High QL items are common. Vendors even sell them.
Again, vendors always in other games sell for more. Even the ones where people sell back to the vendors, what do they do the vendors mark them up. Its better to shout or ask another player to buy his old item, and they will sell it to you for LESS then the vendor sells.
2 reasons, 1) because they know you can just go buy from the vendor and save time and the chance that you could get scammed.
2) That player would try to sell to that same item to the vendor and only get 1/2 or so of the worth. Thus they would end up selling to you for more then 1/2 but less then what the vendor sells. Thats normal.
Sure every game is going to have scammers, no matter WHAT the price is on the vendor scammers come into play and can try to scam some moron. However, you cant use that to say that vendors need to be even lower priced. It makes no sense. I have an idea, lets make it so that vendor prices are so low that players dont even craft the items, because its not worth the time to craft them.
The way that Augir is trying to rip players isnt buy selling for more then the vendor price haha, thats just stupid, he wouldnt get a sell but maybe a noob or 2. No he is selling at like 80% of the vendor price, while everyone else is selling at 33% of vendor price. So his bucklers are like 240ses while others are like 100ses. Then what he does is places all the vendors in key spots, also at the sametime buying all the lower priced bucklers or most, to resell at his price.
But still they are LESS then the vendor because you cant buy out a vendor.
Now people being hardly around the game is another problem but yet again has nothing to do with vendor prices or verming.
See now you have a small point here but still thats not the case in Corst, first off if you posted on the forums you would have people JUMPING to sell you items. Second just yell in Corst and you will have many people tell you where to buy and how much they normally cost. These people are mostly honest and are welling to help anyone. Heck I wouldnt even doubt if you got a few for free. So you talking about runing off in the woods looking for a magical elf shop is again dumb. Even though I know you were just being a jackass.
I really do think you have issues with your brain dude, you cant understand simple concepts plus you bring up things that have nothing to do with the other.
Im reposting the same shit because you are not bringing anything new into it other then WRONG facts. Meaning you say games like xxx do this, when they dont. Then I show you how they dont, and you say thats not even a good example that you used. So what can I say if you are to dumb to use ones that work. Mostly because you dont understand is that games CANT WORK LIKE YOU SAY. No NPC vendor in a game is going to sell items for LESS then players. (no counting scammers) Those players wouldnt sell a damn thing if the vendors sell for cheaper, do you not understand that? I dont know how to make that more clear to you, a game CANT WORK LIKE THAT nor will players EVER do that.
Now players might sell items higher in FAR of places where its hard to get those items from vendors because the vendors are not there. But we are not talking about that here, we are talking about CORST!
[quote]Originally posted by shane910
[b]
Wow he can do math... I am amazed...[/b[/quote] Ya once you get past 3rd grade, maybe your mom can help you with math.
I dont care what names you call me, thats not the point. Again maybe rereading the post will help you understand that you are saying I have no life and trying to focus your points around that, yet Im telling you that it wasnt a matter of how much per day I played, but a matter of PLAY TIME. Please go back reread it. Or like I said have your mom help you.
Sorry, I havnt sucked on my mom's tit is decades. Can you say the same? I didnt think so.
-MrDDT
ok I have another tactic because maybe we are doing to many things here for you.
Show me where a PLAYER is selling items for MORE then the NPC vendors sell items.
Show me that then I will move to each and every dumbass point you have because you cant seem to grasp anything.
I think I might start doing this more often.
Please post either who is selling it for MORE, or a screen shot of a merchant selling it for more (player NPC is a merchant).
Dont just say HIGH QL items, because NPCs sell from 2/2 to 99/99 QL.
-MrDDT