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Why most new MMOs suck

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  • GormandYGormandY Member Posts: 411

    Its hard to please everyone.

    Alot of people love LOTRO, others love Fury, some hate LOTRO, some hate fury.

    Its that simple if you get what im trying to say.

  • gillvane1gillvane1 Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 1,503

    Originally posted by Ginkeq


    Ok, after playing beta of a game that is coming out in a few weeks, I realized why the new MMORPGs are pretty much garbage. 
    The reason is that most new MMORPGs for some reason got the idea that people like to do quests.  So these newer MMOs all have like 5000 quests in every area where there is no point to them other than to say the game has a lot of quests. 



    Leveling up by doing quests has to be the stupidest thing ever invented in MMOs.  It is like you are in an area only to do a quest and not for the NPCs that live in that area.  For example, in WoW you would travel to a certain zone to grind 20-30 because of an abundance of quests. 



    I think quests only exist in MMOs for stupid players who can't figure out where to grind.  At least games like everquest has a bunch of leveling spots and they were camped either due to the gear, exp, or cash reward. 



    So to MMO developers in the future, no, i don't like doing pointless quests for no reason.  They ruin the game if anything.
    Also, when the quest system is so stupid that you can only start a quest at one location, why would you put that in a game other than to piss people off?  For example, if there is a quest to rescue people, and you didn't get that quest, but you are in the same zone as them and can rescue them, why shouldnt you be able to do hat quest right there? 
    And you need a quest just to do that quest?  It's stupid.  If a quest says you kill 10 spiders, and you've killed 10, why not allow it to be used retroactively
     
    Anyway,  all im advocating is that newer MMos don't include so many idiotic quests that have no point other than exp.  It's a reason im not going to play any of the MMOS released this year
     
    Oh btw, the most annoying thing is that in the game i'm referring to, the exp is so lousy that it isnt possible to level without doing these  quests.  So, you are forced to do pointless quests for exp, what a dumb concept

    I agree.

     

    You don't want  grind that's tedious, but grinding is the essence of a good MMORPG.

     

    Grinding gives you an opportunity to group, something the newer quest only require for a Boss Mob now and then at the end of the quest.

     

    Grinding is also good because you aren't running around like a chicken with your head cut off from one NPC to the next, and from one location to the next. You can sit tight in a certain area, and you get a chance to meet players that are your level grinding in the same area.

    It's also fun and challenging to make a group, and find mobs which are a challenge for your particular group, whether you have just a couple group members, or a full group.

     

    Will someone make  a decent grind, and quit the the endless quests. The quests promote the single player game with a bunch of people to chat with syndrome.

     

    MMORPG Maker

  • x_rast_xx_rast_x Member Posts: 745

    I think most MMOs these days suck because they all try to be WoW 2.0.  If people want WoW they'll play WoW.

    If companies want to make a successful (in terms of making a profit and being respected in the MMO community) MMO they should look at Eve.

    Eve is a niche game.  It doesn't appeal to everyone.  The devs don't try to appeal to everyone and don't really want to.  What Eve does do is cater to a small but very loyal player base, and that's why it's still going after all these years.

    Personally I think the era of 'big' MMOs with more than 50% of the market will be over when WoW is - different people want different things from their MMOs, and a lot (most I'd say) systems are totally incompatible with each other - just look at the endless debates about what 'skill' actually is.

    In the end though I think it'll be a good thing for the community, games will be more diverse and will appeal to a broader base, leading the way for more innovation, which is what this genre needs more than anything right now.

     

  • LodeclawLodeclaw Member Posts: 148

    Quests should be be used sparingly. I firmly believe that nearly all items in a game should be created by players using components foraged from the environment (wood, ore, fruit, etc) or taken from creatures (hides, horns, etc.) Also, money should be made by selling components and items. Animals and monsters don't carry gold around with them, I don't care what anyone says.

    ===========
    The Guild is all about making MMORPGs more immersive, and more importantly, more fun! Join us!
    The Guild.

  • McGruggMcGrugg Member Posts: 60

    I agree with you rast, there'd be a lot of different gmaes on the market right now to appeal to our manky different tastes if all the game developers weren't trying to remake WoW with a different skin.

  • JupstoJupsto Member UncommonPosts: 2,075

     

    Originally posted by Ginkeq


    Kill x y monsters is clearly connected with the storyline.
    The only quests i support are epic quests like in EQ.  Not pointless quests(98% of the quests in any mmo)
     
    I'd rather grind than do pointless quests.  Too bad most new MMOs dont have camps, but rather they send you on pointless quests all over the map to waste your time



    Well then don't do the quests stick to grinding mobs.

     

    Problem solved.

    Next!

    My blog: image

  • erandurerandur Member Posts: 727

    You hate the 'kill X, find X, talk to X' quests, a lot of people hate them, but even more people hate grinding! If you like grinding, play tibia or runescape, which only have 30 quests each, no storyline etc. because after reading your thread, it's obvious that you just want to kill creatures over and over again...

    And you call quests "pointless" and you don't think grinding is pointless? I assume you're one of the few people who actually like grindfests then...

    However, you've got a good point, games like WoW have really boring quests... Game developers are missing some inspiration lately... And you've got another good point, if you are in the same zone, you should be able to rescue those people, it's only logical that as a 'hero' you help people when they need help, even if nobody asked you.

     

    You know it, the best way to realize your dreams is waking up and start moving, never lose hope and always keep up.

  • mzleadmzlead Member Posts: 1

    these days most of the new games that come out are only clones of either the older version(s) or a completly different game. the result usually comes with better graphics and/ or slightly better game play. so what if the game is new? eventually it becomes extremely repetitive and boring.

    deja vu?

  • GinkeqGinkeq Member Posts: 615

    Originally posted by erandur


    You hate the 'kill X, find X, talk to X' quests, a lot of people hate them, but even more people hate grinding! If you like grinding, play tibia or runescape, which only have 30 quests each, no storyline etc. because after reading your thread, it's obvious that you just want to kill creatures over and over again...

    I'm saying if we are going to use idiotic grind systems in every MMORPG, then it shouldn't force players to grind on quests or on npcs.  If a quest system is used only for exp, which it usually is in games like WoW, then you are forcing players to do quests. 



    Making people grind on quests takes all the intelligence out of leveling, etc.  It means you will run to thotbott or another map site to find out where to go, and you will go there, do the quest, return.  You are forced to explore even if you don't want to.  What happened to grinding wherever you want depending on what items, exp is like there?

      Like I might want to grind in LGUK to get a FBSS.  Or I might want to grind in highkeep because the exp is ridiculous there.  In games like WoW, you don't have any choice where you want to grind.  You have to grind where the quests are, and if you don't, you will level twice as slow as players who do the quests.

     

    I don't have a problem with meaningful quests that give out good gear, like "Kill the boss of this instance for these rewards".  There usually arent many of these so it will allow you to do what you want after the quest is over. 

    Personally, I like being able to explore zones and grind there not because some quest told me to go there, but because I found out that certain location is good for grinding. 

    When you send people there, it is like everyone knows about it, and you have tons of newbies in the area which is kind of annoying.  Some people like to grind in areas where there isn't many other players.  Others like it when there are 10 newbies competing for every NPC.  When you tell players where the grind is at, everyone will be competing for that.  And, developers half-ass the NPCs of all other areas (usually just random spawns with no chance of any named NPCs that drop loot)

    It is a real shame that all the loot of WoW has been placed into instances rather than having rare spawn NPCs in various areas (they have those "black ring NPCs", but they drop garbage usually).   Takes all the fun out of grinding certain areas.

     

    To me though, all grinding is a waste of time and needs to be removed from MMORPGS.   Th e challenge of MMORPGs is pvp and pve of the bosses.  If they got rid of leveling, etc.  they would be able to add more challenging content and not trivial instances(like zul farrak etc.) that are meant to be easy.

  • zoey121zoey121 Member Posts: 926

    Quests may be   a part of why so many are same ole same ole, however the bigger issue is why doesn't this game have a b or c ? Why do i feel like playing the same game but with worse mechanics and no choices?

     Why do all the toons look just the same?

       Why am i in a group get to an area but because i didn't do a b or c (book) i am locked out of content?

     Another part is for the older folks that did more then one or two games till end level have already been there done that and just do not feel like doing it again. Mmorpg burn out has not only hit the players but the lack of creativity in the current offering.

       Also if they choose graphics over game play that shuts out players with not up to date equipment.

     Last but not least the game console market has taken off and for some it is so much easier to plop in a game and enjoy rpg's without being bugged by chinese farming, griefing  game errors/bugs server down time, and the did i mention bugs?



       While we have aged grown the industry is stuck in wow itus. So in the meantime will keep an eye out here see if anything looks promisng that isn't same ole fantasy line and non fps sci fi .

     That offers some ways to level without combat only . So yea a dry season for now though it's ok got my 360 to keep me happy & content for now

     

  • vajurasvajuras Member Posts: 2,860

     

    Originally posted by Ginkeq


     
    Originally posted by unherdninja


     

    Originally posted by Ginkeq


    EVE is one of the worst MMORPGS out.  It is for kiddies who can invest their whole day into games. CCP, the developers of EVE recently came out with statistics showing the average age for an eve online player is 27. 



    How is EVE skill based?  You have to wait x days to get a skill?  That is skill based?if the only thing youve ever done was play the free trial then yes of course you would think that. Get in a 0.0 allience and do a fleet op or two. a player with 1 mill sp is almost just as helpful as a player with 30mill sp. Its hard to explain but EVE is highly skill based compared to most games(world of warcraft to name one).
    EVE is purely a time based garbage MMORPG where the player who doesn't have any life outside of EVE will always win.  It's a stupid game and concept.   The time investment in EVE is much worse than WoW. You must not have thought hard on this one. EVE online's skill system makes it so no matter how much you play you can only be so good. weather you play 10 hours a day or 1 hour a day it still takes atleast 4 mounths for example to get a battle ship(more or less). The only reason to play is to make money.
    A game like WoW however requires you to "have no life outside" of it in order to be max lvl with great gear(in my opinion). Think more please before you post.
    Your freind,
    Unheardninja.

    Corrected your mistakes. good post though.

     

     

     

     

    Your idea of an MMORPG obviously is that you should have to play it for 20 years or however long the idiotic eve skill system takes to get the abilities.  Yeah that is enjoyable.  I want to be a senior citizen by the time my character in eve is good because I dont have any control over it. 



    Skill systems are ridiculous and especially those which are based on real life time.  At least in WoW i could get all the skills I want in a matter of weeks, but in eve i would have to invest like a year of time.  So in EVE you basically pay for them to hold your character until it doesn't suck (once it gets skillups).  I'm sure that takes up a lot of their bandwidth.

    EVE is a crap point and click MMORPG where it removes skill from the game.  All you need to know is what gear to buy and how to click on enemies. 

    EVE is a rehash of all other MMO concepts, except you are in a space ship. 

     

    Don't go confusing EVE Online with a traditional based skill system. Skill based systems existed for like a decade before EVE Online showed up and made it Timed Based progression instead of improving skills through use. EVE Online really isn't a skill based system at all

     {edit} best implementation I've seen honestly was Crackdown, an xbox 360 coop RPG. Apparently, skill based systems are a lot more abundant in console action games. I would say UO was good as well- but Crackdown was a lot faster skillup then UO and a much better example for current modern day audiences

  • MR-BubblesMR-Bubbles Member Posts: 649

    So basically the OP wants a game like WoW with no Quests No story No point just Endless grinding with maybee some PvP at the end.

     

     I think id rather stick with a MMO with a point thank you very much like EvE.

    True its not for everyoone but it has a lot of content to it.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Retired from: Neocron, Everquest, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, RF Online and Final Fantasy VII

    Currently Playing : EvE Online.

  • Jimmy_ScytheJimmy_Scythe Member CommonPosts: 3,586

    Originally posted by MR-Bubbles


    So basically the OP wants a game like WoW with no Quests No story No point just Endless grinding with maybee some PvP at the end. 


    Sounds like Lineage 2... or Ragnarok Online.... or RF Online.... Or MU Online.... or... or....

    Well, you get my drift.....

  • GinkeqGinkeq Member Posts: 615

    Originally posted by MR-Bubbles


    So basically the OP wants a game like WoW with no Quests No story No point just Endless grinding with maybee some PvP at the end.
     
     I think id rather stick with a MMO with a point thank you very much like EvE.
    True its not for everyoone but it has a lot of content to it.

    Who cares about the story?  Does WoW have a story? No.  It's much too shallow a game to have any kind of story.  You are never immersed in the story.  You simply do quests for exp, no one reads them.  Blizzard can say that their new expanion is going to have a grizzly bear god and people wouldn't know that it didn't go along with their storyline.



    I want a game where the community makes it fun.  Not where you depend on developers to make up dumb quests that no one enjoys. 

    Like EVE has a point other than to waste your time, lol.

  • MR-BubblesMR-Bubbles Member Posts: 649

    Originally posted by Ginkeq


     
    Originally posted by MR-Bubbles


    So basically the OP wants a game like WoW with no Quests No story No point just Endless grinding with maybee some PvP at the end.
     
     I think id rather stick with a MMO with a point thank you very much like EvE.
    True its not for everyoone but it has a lot of content to it.

     

    Who cares about the story?  Does WoW have a story? No.  It's much too shallow a game to have any kind of story.  You are never immersed in the story.  You simply do quests for exp, no one reads them.  Blizzard can say that their new expanion is going to have a grizzly bear god and people wouldn't know that it didn't go along with their storyline.



    I want a game where the community makes it fun.  Not where you depend on developers to make up dumb quests that no one enjoys. 

    Like EVE has a point other than to waste your time, lol.

    And here is where you show you have lost the point. Because i highlighted one of the main reasons that people play and stay with EvE.

     And i have yet to see you name a game that has a great community based gameplay like you seem to love.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Retired from: Neocron, Everquest, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, RF Online and Final Fantasy VII

    Currently Playing : EvE Online.

  • StellosStellos Member UncommonPosts: 1,491
    Originally posted by barhoom


    coz u played EQ ....I find my self in same boat ...any game I play get boring after few months...nothing ever was or will be like classic EQ .
    for old memeries
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n9acBvPaFw



    Agreed.  The same can be said about old UO.  It just won't be the same.  For now I think we will have to accept that many MMOs will involve some type of quest system.  Yea, I hope it isn't hte meaningless, time-sink seen in WoW.  But not all quests are horrible.  They can be fun if implemented correctly.

  • patrikd23patrikd23 Member UncommonPosts: 1,155

    Well as I see it 90 % of all FreeToPlay games are a clone of Lineage 2 .. Archlord, rappzel, silkroad and I can go on for long... and they are all Boring click to walk games where you dont are 100 % conrtrol of your chars, and the game companies are to lazy to make their own engine. I have played 95 % of all FTP games and most of MMOs in general and I have come to the point when its all getting really "yesterday" and boring.

  • GinkeqGinkeq Member Posts: 615

    Originally posted by MR-Bubbles


     
    Originally posted by Ginkeq


     
    Originally posted by MR-Bubbles


    So basically the OP wants a game like WoW with no Quests No story No point just Endless grinding with maybee some PvP at the end.
     
     I think id rather stick with a MMO with a point thank you very much like EvE.
    True its not for everyoone but it has a lot of content to it.

     

    Who cares about the story?  Does WoW have a story? No.  It's much too shallow a game to have any kind of story.  You are never immersed in the story.  You simply do quests for exp, no one reads them.  Blizzard can say that their new expanion is going to have a grizzly bear god and people wouldn't know that it didn't go along with their storyline.



    I want a game where the community makes it fun.  Not where you depend on developers to make up dumb quests that no one enjoys. 

    Like EVE has a point other than to waste your time, lol.

    And here is where you show you have lost the point. Because i highlighted one of the main reasons that people play and stay with EvE.

     

     And i have yet to see you name a game that has a great community based gameplay like you seem to love.

    EQ

  • 8299482994 Member Posts: 99

    theres got to be a balance of quests that involve THINKING and light grind sadly noone understands the concept of thinking which is ultimately what makes great MMOs and what breaks timewasters

  • MR-BubblesMR-Bubbles Member Posts: 649

    Originally posted by Ginkeq


     
    Originally posted by MR-Bubbles


     
    Originally posted by Ginkeq


     
    Originally posted by MR-Bubbles


    So basically the OP wants a game like WoW with no Quests No story No point just Endless grinding with maybee some PvP at the end.
     
     I think id rather stick with a MMO with a point thank you very much like EvE.
    True its not for everyoone but it has a lot of content to it.

     

    Who cares about the story?  Does WoW have a story? No.  It's much too shallow a game to have any kind of story.  You are never immersed in the story.  You simply do quests for exp, no one reads them.  Blizzard can say that their new expanion is going to have a grizzly bear god and people wouldn't know that it didn't go along with their storyline.



    I want a game where the community makes it fun.  Not where you depend on developers to make up dumb quests that no one enjoys. 

    Like EVE has a point other than to waste your time, lol.

    And here is where you show you have lost the point. Because i highlighted one of the main reasons that people play and stay with EvE.

     

     And i have yet to see you name a game that has a great community based gameplay like you seem to love.

     

    EQ

    Then by all means play your game [ive yet to see a reason you chose EQ but meh...never mind].

    I am however happy to see you didnt disagree with my first point tho[the bit highlighted in blue].

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Retired from: Neocron, Everquest, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, RF Online and Final Fantasy VII

    Currently Playing : EvE Online.

  • GinkeqGinkeq Member Posts: 615

    I dont play any MMORPGs, they are all garbage.  This includes EQ.  But a long time ago EQ was the best MMORPG and had the best community.  Now everything is designed for stupid people who like trivial games where there is no skill in pve and pvp

  • LodeclawLodeclaw Member Posts: 148

    I just played a web game on albinoblacksheep that was more fun than 95% of the games listed on this website... Is that sad?

    EDIT: Oooh! Reply #100!

    ===========
    The Guild is all about making MMORPGs more immersive, and more importantly, more fun! Join us!
    The Guild.

  • MR-BubblesMR-Bubbles Member Posts: 649

    Originally posted by Lodeclaw


    I just played a web game on albinoblacksheep that was more fun than 95% of the games listed on this website... Is that sad?
    EDIT: Oooh! Reply #100!
    Yes its sad there are so many MMO's and so little Variety.

    They all seem to be copies of each other nowadays [excuding a bare few exeptions of course].

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Retired from: Neocron, Everquest, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, RF Online and Final Fantasy VII

    Currently Playing : EvE Online.

  • YeeboYeebo Member Posts: 1,359

    So, in WoW, EQ II, LoTRO, COH or any of the quest rich PvE games what's to stop you from levelling purely by grinding?  Nothing, nothing at all.  In fact for many players it's a much faster method of levellling than questing. For example, in WoW the only way that you are going to approch strait up grinding is to follow a questing guide.  95% of players don't, and so they could actually be levelling a lot faster by just finding good grind spots.  They'd be making a hell of a lot more cash per unit time as well.  Why do you think gold farmers stand around and grind?

    I can also assure you that the end game in just about any modern MMO will involve absolutely idiotic amounts of grinding if you want to do certain things.  I literally did a level and a half in LoTRO last week doing nothing but killing the same 4 mob types for pristine hides (levelling tailoring).  Felt pretty grindy to me.  And don't even get me started on faction grinds in WoW.  I don't care if the Timbermaw are going to send a hooker with a sack full of cash and a bottle of whiskey to my apartment, it's not worth getting revered. 

    So if you can grind in all of these games, why don't more players level by grinding ?  I suspect it's because they think grinding sucks animal gonads.  I know that's why I don't do it.  Putting quests in a game does not remnove the option of grinding, it just gives you a choice.

    I was willing to put up "grinding = gameplay" when EQ was the only decent MMO on the market.  But now, no way in hell I'd go back.  That's like saying we should all go back to playing Space Invaders.

    And if you like grinding, what is there to complain about anyway? 95% of the games coming out of Korea and thus probably 80% of all MMOs ever made are complete and utter hardcore grindfests.  Quests are a crutch for the weak in Korea, or something like that I guess.  Even besides those games EQ, EQOA, AO, FFXII.....surely one of those games has mindless grinding for anyone's taste. 

     

    I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.

  • Nerf09Nerf09 Member CommonPosts: 2,953

    Early SWG didn't have any quests, and it was the best MMORPG out there.  But then SOE had to roon it.

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