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HellGate London Confusion

jiveturkey12jiveturkey12 Member CommonPosts: 1,262

Ive noticed an increasing trend with people on these forums of saying that Hell-Gate London is an MMO.

 

You can look directly at the FAQ for the game, it is not, by any standards a MMO. Yes there is a "if you really want to" Subscription Fee, for online play but that only helps you to get into private servers faster than others, and gives you a little more leeway with the game mechanics.

Hell Gate itself is A "Single player Adventure, with online multi-player accomodations". Its not in the same realm as a mmo though because you get onto servers with up to 32 people online in that server at the same time. To say that Hellgate is an MMO is the same as to say that Dungeon Siege, Neverwinter nights, and Battlefield 2 are all MMO's.

 

Im not saying that those people are stupid but they were mearly mislead by intial reports that stated the game would in fact be an MMO.

 

The only game I think is in between on the whole MMO argument is "Guild Wars"

Because IT is a Persistant online game, but It really isnt on the "Massive" scale.

So I think calling it a MMO is fair, but for me it is just simply a Online RPG.

 

-Jive

 

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Comments

  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,726

    The reason this is not a MMO, everything in this game is instanced, there are no non instanced areas, hence you just get to play with those in your instance.  There is not a common meeting area like in guildwars.

    Basically just Diablo on steroids which we know is not a MMO.

  • lordvancelordvance Member UncommonPosts: 36

    MMO does not have to mean MMORPG, in fact some people use the more specifically call the generally accepted MMORPG's persistant world mmo's. Just for the record though, Hellgate online acts almost exactly like Guild Wars - so if you consider one an MMO theres no reason not to consider the other one an MMO as well.

    Just because a game has single player does not mean it cannot be an MMORPG. The names of the genre's are very loose when you really get down to it. What would you suggest we call Hellgate though? Is it an Action-Adventure? A RPG? A Hack-N-Slash? A FPS? What would you call Deus-Ex?

    I think Bill uses the term MMO (and not MMORPG mind you) to describe Hellgate so often because Flagship Studio's believes the "bread and butter" of the game is going to be the online communities, such as the case became with Diablo II. Unlike Diablo though, the game features many MMO facets common to the more genre-specific titles, such as guilds - auction houses that span across the entire realm, and more that cannot be said without breaching the NDA.

    edit: (the hubs act almost exactly like the towns in GW)

  • ext1ext1 Member Posts: 98


    Originally posted by jiveturkey12
    Hell Gate itself is A "Single player Adventure, with online multi-player accomodations". Its not in the same realm as a mmo though because you get onto servers with up to 32 people online in that server at the same time. -Jive
     


    Guess what? Your 100% wrong. It's not some little 'multiplayer side game' for 32 people to hook up at LAN parties. It is just as much a constant world, on 24 hour servers, with as many people as care to log in to the game as any other instanced type game out there (GW / DDO). Those players can walk around and see eachother, trade with one another, group up with one another and go off to an instance. It has a single player game, and an online multiplayer version of the same game.

    If your going to try and flame people, at least be accurate.

    It is as much an MMO as GW or DDO. If you want to argue whether or not those types of games are "MMOish" or not, then have that argument. But Hellgate is just as much one as they are. Get your facts right.

    image

  • ext1ext1 Member Posts: 98


    Originally posted by Ozmodan
    The reason this is not a MMO, everything in this game is instanced, there are no non instanced areas, hence you just get to play with those in your instance.  There is not a common meeting area like in guildwars.
    Basically just Diablo on steroids which we know is not a MMO.


    another 100% WRONG statement. Geez, do you people even try and learn the facts before you post? There are common meeting areas for players, it's not some battlenet chatroom for people to hook up and launch a game. It's a persistant world (or at the least persistant areas of the game for people to mingle).

    image

  • jiveturkey12jiveturkey12 Member CommonPosts: 1,262

    Listen, I didnt try to flame anyone, seeing as I stated that people who thought this were just misinformed.

    Your missing the big picture here though, its only 32 people, that is by no means, a MASSIVE game.

    A Massive multiplayer games intention is to have hundreds to thousands of people playing at the same time, in the same world.

     

    Hellgate is just not that type of game,

     

    Will it be a better online game than majority of the mmo's out, Yeah Im 100% sure of that from what I have seen of it.

     

    but does that make it a Massive online game.

    No

     

    -Jive

     

     

  • basroilbasroil Member Posts: 48

    Where are you pulling this 32 figure from?  All indications are that it has social hubs exactly like Guild Wars and psuedo MMO's of its ilk.  eg. go read gamespy's new preview http://au.pc.gamespy.com/pc/hellgate-london/823711p1.html

  • lordvancelordvance Member UncommonPosts: 36

    Yea, that ETC guy got oddly annoyed. Anyhow, back to the conversation at hand. Let's compare the MMO'ness of WoW with Hellgate: London. How often do you seriously team with more than 32 players at any given time? Heck, how often does anyone team with more than 24 other players excluding AV? Almost never.

    The only major difference between games like WoW and games like Hellgate is where the interaction takes place. Take WoW and make all the major cities persistant, but then instance the zones like Hellfire Peninsula - you retain the auction house, the ability to team with thousands upon thousands of different players that are online, guilds, and again - more that cannot be said without breaking the NDA.

    An MMO only has to describe how many players are available for playing with at any given time, not necessarily how many you are playing with. Because of the instanced style of Hellgate, there can be far more available players than there are on any given server in a persistant world game too - by instancing the zones you can scale a single "realm" across more than one hardware cluster.

    At the end of the day though, how often do you play with more than 32 people in one party in a classic MMO? As long as thousands upon thousands of players are interacting via trade and teaming - I don't see why it cannot be labled as an MMO. If it makes you feel any better, its official description is as an action RPG, Bill and many others just happen to refer to it as an MMO from time to time.

     

    edit: 32 is the current "known" number for the maximum players who can party up and enter an instance together btw.

  • basroilbasroil Member Posts: 48

    Hmm well 32 is higher then the GW limit, or at least I think it is haven't played in years .  So it's more an MMO then GW, although of course GW doesnt have a subscription!!

  • lordvancelordvance Member UncommonPosts: 36

    To be fair, you can play unlimited offline characters, and up to 3 online characters per account (with one serial key you can make one US account and one European account) for online play before you have to register to unlock more.

  • jiveturkey12jiveturkey12 Member CommonPosts: 1,262

    See the funniest thing about all this is. The game, from all our stand points on here agree or disagree with the main topic is, The Game plays like guild Wars, in the sense of finding groups, and social hub areas.

     

    Now the funny part, Why is it not on the list of MMO's Here on this site?

     

    Guild Wars is, which in my opinion it shouldnt be, but if a game like guild wars is allowed to be called a MMO. Then why not this game?

     

    See MMO is a cool new term that people are throwing around to make there games sell, look at Two Worlds. They called their  game a MMO. Now someone go play Two Worlds for me and then come back and tell me if it is indeed a MMO. Its not.

    Also if Hellgate is a MMO, then why not Neverwinter nights?

    See thats the problem that you run into when you start letting these "Outlier" type games into the MMO Frame.

     

    I really just dont see how this game is up for debate as an MMO.

    Also you can group with over 34 people, in Raids, which is a very important part to alot of MMO's

     

    Simple Speaking it just Honestly is not an MMO. Yes its an Online RPG, yes its got its points that make it similar to an MMO.

     

    But games like Hellgate, Guild Wars, and Phantasy Star should honestly not be put into the same realm as games like Everquest, World Of Warcraft, or even as much as it pains me to Say Vanguard.

     

    -Jive

     

  • InsaneGamerInsaneGamer Member Posts: 11

    I have to agree with this guy here. They are definately not MMO"s and need to go back to being called RPG because that is what there doing, dont confuse people my friend saw bioshock and swore it was going to be the best MMO out and I swore up and down it was not a MMO but it is labled as one.

  • ext1ext1 Member Posts: 98


    Originally posted by jiveturkey12
    See the funniest thing about all this is. The game, from all our stand points on here agree or disagree with the main topic is, The Game plays like guild Wars, in the sense of finding groups, and social hub areas.
     
    Now the funny part, Why is it not on the list of MMO's Here on this site?
     
    Guild Wars is, which in my opinion it shouldnt be, but if a game like guild wars is allowed to be called a MMO. Then why not this game?
     
    See MMO is a cool new term that people are throwing around to make there games sell, look at Two Worlds. They called their  game a MMO. Now someone go play Two Worlds for me and then come back and tell me if it is indeed a MMO. Its not.
    Also if Hellgate is a MMO, then why not Neverwinter nights?
    See thats the problem that you run into when you start letting these "Outlier" type games into the MMO Frame.
     
    I really just dont see how this game is up for debate as an MMO.
    Also you can group with over 34 people, in Raids, which is a very important part to alot of MMO's
     
    Simple Speaking it just Honestly is not an MMO. Yes its an Online RPG, yes its got its points that make it similar to an MMO.
     
    But games like Hellgate, Guild Wars, and Phantasy Star should honestly not be put into the same realm as games like Everquest, World Of Warcraft, or even as much as it pains me to Say Vanguard.
     
    -Jive
     


    Now this much I can agree with. My point was that calling people "stupid" for wanting it on here alongside games like GW or DDO, when your own facts about the game are wrong, is well...stupid =P

    I'm perfectly open to the debate of what does or doesn't constitute an "MMO". But the driving idea most people who support HG is that, if games like GW and DDO are on here, well HG should be as well. They are NO different than eachother. HG is indeed every bit like GW in how it plays. None of this '32 players' only nonsense.

    Didn't mean to come off smarmy, but the facts should be set straight.

    Including GW or DDO? Then you need to make a section for HG as it deserves.

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  • ext1ext1 Member Posts: 98


    Originally posted by InsaneGamer
    I have to agree with this guy here. They are definately not MMO"s and need to go back to being called RPG because that is what there doing, dont confuse people my friend saw bioshock and swore it was going to be the best MMO out and I swore up and down it was not a MMO but it is labled as one.


    I thought there wasn't any multiplayer function with that game?? Who and where are they labeling it an MMO?

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  • RemaliRemali Member RarePosts: 570

    OK first of all 32 is not massive ive played counterstrike with that many people. Second there isnt a persistent world outside the meeting hub and that is actually a selling point of the game (zones change every time you play so there is higher replayability).There are other reasons why i wouldnt consider it a mmorpg or even a rpg in the classic sense but i wont go there.

    What i find interesting is that alot of people say it is similar to GW. They are right it IS similar but GW isnt called a mmorpg by their devs while hellgate is. What is the main difference? GW isnt p2p while hellgate is. Now for those that followed Hellgate from early in the development do you remember the devs calling it a mmorpg before the decision to go with a p2p model? Because i seem to remember calling it a single player game back then but im not 100% sure.

    As for if it should be in the list in this site there are some conditions that have to be met afaik to be included as a mmorpg so hellgate probably didnt meet them or it is uknown if it does.

  • lordvancelordvance Member UncommonPosts: 36

    You guys are still missing that there is no extremely specific definition of an MMO. Not all MMO's have to be persistent world MMORPG's, that is simply the norm.

    Some people choose to call Hellgate an MMO because it has MANY of the MMO traits, and almost all of the important ones; the community of players who share the same realm, same auction house, can party with one another and go out into an instance, can guild together, it's that community that many of use to define an MMO, something present in both Guild Wars and Hellgate. You guys seem to want to define the genre by the level of instancing, which is a minor technical trait.

    Persistent World MMORPG is a sub-genre of MMORPG is a sub-genre of MMO.

    MMORPG.com chooses to represent Persistent World MMORPG’s, which is absolutely fine. However, that does not make them the absolute authority on what games can and cannot be, correctly, identified as an MMO.  MMORPG.com is a site designed to give you an overview of a very specific type of game, one which Hellgate and, in my opinion, Guild Wars do not belong in – however, the genre is larger than Persistent World MMORPG’s guys.

    The major traits of an MMO are the secure server-client method of data protection (something that other online RPG’s like Neverwinter Nights do NOT share), as well as other very large community spanning features like auction houses, guilds, etcetera. Just because a massive amount of players are not participating together in the same instance, does not mean that a massive amount of players are not contributing to the same living community, and playing together indirectly as well as directly.

    Sure, the game is more instanced than others such as World of Warcraft- but at the end of the day, the level of interaction is extremely similar, and we are not one to judge what a game can and cannot label itself.

    edit (in reply to the person above me): From the very beginning, Bill has stood by the game as multi-genre-spanning game. With "elements of First Person Shooters, Role Playing Games, MMO's..."

    Guys, we are talking about genre's here - very loose generalizations that exist merely to give people who have not experianced the product a way to identify them. Just as it is fair to call Live Free or Die Hard an action comedy, because it contains aspects of both genres, it is fair to use the term MMO to describe any game with a community of online players all participating directly with one another.

  • ygscorpygscorp Member Posts: 42

    there's the world ok, london ok, a lot of subway stations full of peoples who share the same world ok ?

    you can go freely from one station to annother to find your friends and you can team with them to go in instanced areas  (team of 5 actually)...

    there never was servers of 32 and all the craps info you get.

    hg:l is an online world with instanced area to fight mobs. it's absolutly not Diablo 2 it's more like Dungeon Runner or GW (which are here)... (alpha/beta player i'll not say anything more 'cause of NDA)

  • howitzer1howitzer1 Member Posts: 109

     

    Originally posted by lordvance


    MMO does not have to mean MMORPG, in fact some people use the more specifically call the generally accepted MMORPG's persistant world mmo's. Just for the record though, Hellgate online acts almost exactly like Guild Wars - so if you consider one an MMO theres no reason not to consider the other one an MMO as well.
    Just because a game has single player does not mean it cannot be an MMORPG. The names of the genre's are very loose when you really get down to it. What would you suggest we call Hellgate though? Is it an Action-Adventure? A RPG? A Hack-N-Slash? A FPS? What would you call Deus-Ex?
    I think Bill uses the term MMO (and not MMORPG mind you) to describe Hellgate so often because Flagship Studio's believes the "bread and butter" of the game is going to be the online communities, such as the case became with Diablo II. Unlike Diablo though, the game features many MMO facets common to the more genre-specific titles, such as guilds - auction houses that span across the entire realm, and more that cannot be said without breaching the NDA.
    edit: (the hubs act almost exactly like the towns in GW)

     

     

    MMO = Massively Multiplayer Online.   It really makes no difference if people can socialize with each other in the game world. If thousands can connect and play online then its a MMO.

  • BlurrBlurr Member UncommonPosts: 2,155

    Even Bill Roper, CEO of Flagship Studios (the company that makes the game) and former Blizzard employee, call HGL an MMO>

    "Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000

  • LiddokunLiddokun Member UncommonPosts: 1,665

    I'd say the original poster hasn't played the game yet. If he had he would know that the game is an MMORPG although it is something new that nobody can quite define the game yet. What does MMORPG stand for ? Massively Multiplayer Online Roleplaying (Persistent) game. Let's break this down.

    Massive Multiplayer? Yes, Hellgate London has hubs that hundreds of people can get together to do quest, trade, socialize and stuff. It will even support an auction house for the player economy.

    Is there a player economy and crafting? Yes there's player economy and limited form of crafting.

    Are the dungeon instanced ? Yes, the dungeons are instanced.

    Is the world persistent? Yes, the world is persistant although it is setup like Guildwars.

    Does it have a shared world with massive areas that you can explore? No it does not. Although an MMORPG does NOT require it to have a huge world where you can explore. But there are plenty of exploration to do because all the instanced areas are randomized (you have a new place to explore every time you enter a dungeon area).

    Does it cost monthly subscription? Yes $10 bucks and it supports free play too. The subscipriton is merely for added services like shared banks, guild functions as well as monthly content updates.

     

     

  • ianubisiianubisi Member Posts: 4,201

    For my dollar, CounterStrike is as much a MMOG as EverQuest is. Thus, Hellgate is also a MMOG.

    Mind you, I don't mind the fact that MMORPG.com decides to state a set of rules that does, in fact, disqualify Hellgate from making this list (as well as CounterStrike, etc...).

    Nevertheless, any online game with thousands of players playing together, regardless of instances or graphical meeting areas or any other such mechanation, is a MMOG in my book.

  • LiddokunLiddokun Member UncommonPosts: 1,665

    Originally posted by ianubisi


    For my dollar, CounterStrike is as much a MMOG as EverQuest is. Thus, Hellgate is also a MMOG.
    Mind you, I don't mind the fact that MMORPG.com decides to state a set of rules that does, in fact, disqualify Hellgate from making this list (as well as CounterStrike, etc...).
    Nevertheless, any online game with thousands of players playing together, regardless of instances or graphical meeting areas or any other such mechanation, is a MMOG in my book.

    Comparing Hellgate london to Counterstrike is oversimplifying things. It's like saying "I like oranges and I like candy bars hence oranges = candy bars".

  • turnipzturnipz Member Posts: 531

    I dont get how tabula rasa is an mmo while hellgate is not

  • rich9995rich9995 Member UncommonPosts: 25

    Great, another MMO definition argument..

    Can anyone send me a link to the business model for Hellgate London?  I just read free for most content.. then subscription for other content.. is that right.. i guess more detail is what I'm after.. thanks

  • CactusmanXCactusmanX Member Posts: 2,218

    Eh semantics,

    I think the real hang up people have with the MMO definition is mainly the massive part.  Multiplayer and online are not subjective and are provable.  Massive however is subjective and leaves a lot of room for interpertation.

    The whole term MMO is nothing more than a marketing term, there really is no need to classify everygame into a category.  Just focus on the game elements and let them describe what a game is, that is much more describtive than any buzzword.

     

    Don't you worry little buddy. You're dealing with a man of honor. However, honor requires a higher percentage of profit

  • HapacheHapache Member Posts: 74

    The game is gonna kick ass and breath some much needed life into the gaming world. End of story

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