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Obviously this isn't a skill based game, but how customizable are the classes?
TekDragon
Member Posts: 19
It's obvious AoR is going to cater to the "mass market" <Mod Edit> through a class/level based system ala EQ. That's already set in stone.
But just how customizable are the classes? Does customability begin and end at selecting a few perks here or there like WoW, where you have 11ty billion cookie cutters running around?
Comments
the recent news just sent on Friday says they will be quite customizable. Check out the most recently released newsletter from the WAR website
Torrential
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
Check out their new podcast. Other than that, I'm not going to bother giving a thread this trollish much of a response.
Designing morale and tactice ability builds and using them at the correct time is going to prevent a lot of the "cookie cutter" syndrome that has accompanied current genation MMO's. Also min/maxing is going to optional in WAR as support classes can actually be useful without gimping their damage to increase healing and vice versa. Good vidoes,including one on how tactic and morale abilites are going to work can be found at http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/media/podcast/.
The skill system is not the same as WoW. Research the game before bashing it. And class/level based mmorpg's aren't necessarily bad, though this is all really opinion. It's that they have been done poorly recently.
Yea, the newsletter is big. But for an upcoming MMORPG with as much hype as this one...its a good thing. I would hate a newsletter that said
"hey, fixed some bugs..game looks good. Seeya next month"
Torrential
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
Wait... So how does a game where you can have a multiple preset skills (Which can only be changed when you're not fighting) and having a choice from a whole lot of skills (Which you will never get all of them so you have to pick what goes well with what.) be considered as "mass market retard"? I'm sorry but that would assume that one goes off and does something stupid. But the way they set it up seems like you really need to complement skills and such as though to have an advantage in battle.
Though this is just a troll thread anyway.
Siehst du mich
Erkennst du mich
Ganz tief in meinem Herz
ist noch ein Platz f?r dich
Ich suche dich
Ich sehne mich
nach dem was ich geliebt hab
doch ich find es nicht
With 9 posts, im just going to assume your an internet abuser.
/edit:
Hello Metal Dragon?
I find it kinda funny, I find it kinda sad, The dreams in which I'm dieing are the best I've ever had.
So far its seem very , however, i do not think there will be very many "awful" or "god powerful" specs.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I believe WAR will be far more "skill" intensive than any other mmog to date. FPS type games don't take much skill. You can get a sniper rifle, find a hole, and get a nice score. Is that skill? All you do is put the cross hairs over a target and fire. If it is far away you leave or aim high to account for time traveled and bullet drop. It isn't hard and I have been doing that since freaking Duck Hunt. You can say that "new" games have a more skill based system but until they are released it is all just a pleasant fantasy. It is easy to say that it takes skill but realising that vision is another matter.
I think WAR will be a battle of adaptability. The people that can pick out a variety of moral abilities and tactics will be the people that have more success. The skill of situation analysis, which is prevalent in every game, becomes ever so important; Those that cannot adapt and try to use one set of skills might meet with a small bit of success but you definitely won't be the person that everyone asks into a PvP group. Think of WAR like the FPS Battlefield. The class kits themselves offer certain adaptability but the ability to change the composition of each kit gives you the ability to even better adapt to the situation. Engineer is cool but what happens when your mostly up against planes/helicopters? C4 is cool but you need to be watching the area where it is laid and stay alive the whole time to set it off.
What kit you use and how you set that kit up is determined by your situation analysis. It determines where you go, what you do, and how you use your weapons. Your analysis gets better with more experience and information. That is why people can tell an ebayed character in an mmo really easy. So obviously there is some skill or knowledge involved in all mmogs.
I just don't see how this will prevent cookie cutter builds, unless they make all skills equaly powerfull, but then what's the point of all those skills?
Spell Binder: Nexus conflict, Darkness Falls, DAoC all had cookie cutter specs. You could develop your charactor differently, but they were alot less effective. I tried a Healer shaman with red friggs, Was horrible. Tried hybrid. Better, didn't get any invites though. I had to be 42 points Aug just to be in an elite 8 man in DAoC.
If you were going off if a = c and b = c then d = c logic, then Yes Warhammer will have cookie cutter builds like just about every mmo out there. If they happen to actually pull off people not optimizing there charactors and others copying them i'll be very suprised and impressed. But imo don't expect to see any good pvp groups running around without min/max builds even if those builds aren't what you see traditionally. (i.e. Max interrupts, min heal and dps)
Kazer
"Baning Smokers from public places is like baning people from water who like to pee."
Skills = Trolling = False, don't bother
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
Ha ha, look at all the fanboys jumping on him just because he said this would cater to the "mass market retards."
He put it in quotation marks for a reason.
FPS games don't require much skill? I would say the opposite - to be great at FPS takes tonnes of skill.
With MMO PVP choosing the right class is more than half the battle. The other half being able to put your RL on hold for 3 months whilst you hit the level cap and get kitted out.
Hopefully WAR has fine tuned this a bit
_________________________________________
You can walk the walk but can you talk the talk?
How the F*** should we know? It's not even close to being released yet.
D.
WAR has 24 separate careers, and four specific archetypes. While it is impossible to totally avoid the "cookie cutter" disease, I think that WAR will be diverse enough that we won't see a whole bunch of sameness everywhere we go.
You can view the Archetype Podcast here:
www.warhammerconflict.com/index.php
I don't believe the OP is referring to player skills here, but rather character skils.
I also believe ther will be plenty of cookie cutters running around, but also a lot of toons with inventive builds.
What seems more important thought, is that you need to adapt your tactics (skill setup) depending on your situation. This is something that will distinguish the observant players from tha ones that look up a build in some wiki.
I covered this one here:
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/vajuras/102007/541_Player-Skill-and-Stopping-Zergs
Did you realize FPS/RTS games share all these traits? you wouldn't make a comment like this if you did.
Haven't played WAR yet so we'll see what they do. I disagree on your point on ebay'ed characters in mmorpgs. I would say it depends on the MMO.
As far as skill customization, this doesn't seem to be like WoW where you build a spec and are stuck with it (unless you happen to be in town and have gold to spare)
In WAR, you seem to have a much less diverse spread of skills, but can change much of them more or less on the fly, allowing you a lot more situational flexibility. It does seem as though overall there's not a wide plethora of skills like many other MMOs, but it seems like it will be the tactical application of these skills, not the skills themselves, that will make the difference in a battle. Or so I hope.
On the subject of char skills, war is going with a similar war as wow rather than daoc. the problem with daoc was you had to spec your char, while nice it also ment you didn't know if someone you invited would be able to fill the role you invited them for (also, most people went with the most "good" build but then, that's cookie cutter spec isn't it? =p)
You'd invite clerics only to learn they were smite and couldn't heal. You'd invite sorc only to see they are body spec so they can nuke more but can't main cc etc etc. As the game got older most of the none cookie cutter specs went away, and now you most have the same few variations.
In wow on the other hand, every priest could heal, and every warrior could tank, every mage could sheep etc. Now, weather or not people actually chose to do so is another question, but they could do everythign they char was designed, by devs, to do. Of course, blizzard screwed that up with talents.
War is goign with a similar concept to wow's, where every char will be able to fullfil the roles that the devs intend that class to fulfill. All hamans will be able to heal, all chosens will be able to tank and all witch elfs will dps. But since people want diversity, mythic is goign with tactics and morale abilities. Both give you somethign different than what other people might want. But since you can only equip 7 tactics at a time, you can't choose 15 damage improving tactics, well, you can, but you would be no different than someoen who wentwith just 7 (since you can't equip more) but that person could also get 8 tactics that improve other things, survivability, healing, cc reduction etc.
Thus you get the best of both world. On one hand, every class can do the same thing, so you don't end up inviing black orc only to learn that he's dps spec'ed, or some such. On the other hand, you get tactics to make your char different than others. But there are more tactics than you could ever aquire (thus not everyone can have the same tactics as you) and you can only equip 7 tactics from the ones that you did aquire, it means that even if two people has aquired the same tactics, they could still be different because they don't thave the same 7 equiped.
it also means, that if say you can aquire 40 tactics (I think was the number they gave? 1 for each lvl?) that's almost 6 completely different set ups, not to mention a ton of combinations. So you could have a pve tactic set, an rvr tactic set, survivability set, dps set, anti cc set etc. So, hopefully you won't need to respec every time you want to do something else, be it going from dps to tanking or just wanting more survivability.
There are 30 career tactics right now and you can have 18 of them and slot 4 of those. no word on how many renown and pve tactics yet.
Thought it was more than that. But 30 for each class is still a lot of work for mythic :0 and 18 out of 30 isn't too bad for diveristy
sdfg
I just hope they will give me the oppertunity to gimp my char to no tomorrow. I sworn not to play online games on equal terms with others as, well, I am just too good for everyone else.