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The good, the bad, and the......afk?
OK, I've been searching for a new game since I quit VG and have stubbed my toe on Lineage 2 a couple times. Lemme get the straight dope on highlights/lowlights and the all too common botters:
1. Grinding% (30% solo?, 70% group?)
2. Overall "fun factor" 1-10 scale (1=vacuuming, 10=skydiving)
3. Community 1-10 scale (1=boring, 10=fun and helpful)
4. Difficulty 1-10 scale (1=nap, 10=brain hemorrhage)
5. Economy (self-sufficient?, endless farming?)
6. Botters (if you pass 500 people, how many were bots?)
7. PvP balance (balanced or failed experiment)
Any insights and observations are more than welcome, positive or negative. However, please defend opinions with some sort of example or it will likely be ignored and unhelpful to me in any way
Comments
I am gonna answer your questions with caustion not to get banned again
And with reasons and examples also.
1.Grinding:This is THE MOST HARDCORE GRINDFEST EVER.I really cant imagine a game more "korean" than that (no offence on "korean",plz dont ban me) also lvls 1-50 are 95 %solo cause there are not so many rerollers and/or new customers.lvls 50-infinity you need a group (join a guild fast to grind together)
2.Fun factor:1-70lvls =1 cause of the grindfest ,the lack of equipment,buffs and money.
70-infinity=8 Great fun if you buy money and/or you are in a good clan that pvps alot and grinds alot full buffed.
3.Community.
lvls 1-50 :noone speaks to you unless you are a healer or a buffer.If you are in a guild you can have some fun.I have yet to find a person that helped me in this game.Forums have some helpfull info but they are depressing by threads that talk about "soulless players,AKA b-o-t-s"
lvls 50-infinity:Good community with ,by far, the most drama than any other mmorpg out there.Again requires clan to experience it.
Note:if you are lower lvl people tend to think you are less skilled....in this game this happens to a higher degree.The hardcore grinder always thinks he is the uber leet pvper also.
4.Difficulty: Actual difficulty = 2 since 95%of the game is grinding pressing 2 buttons while you grind is not difficult
Difficulty to lvl up =11Eyes,ears,brain,internal bleeding cause of the massive grind
this link ->>>> http://boards.lineage2.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=870959&an=0&page=0 <<<<<-----
shows official statistics after some years of the release of the game .....NUFF SAID :
Number of characters at level 80 (highest level): 33
5.The worst economy ever,driven by bots and ebayers.---------->endless farming
6.Botters It seems that bots are more than 50% of the player base.But i am not so pessimistic and i will say that they are close to 49% ,some say more but they over exaggerate (sp?).I have to state that when the mass ban hammer falls to the bots and farmers the economy is so affected by it that someone can can say that they (bots) control it almost entirely.
7.Prepare to be mass pwned by nukers (spellcasters) and archers by 1 continent away.Balance is almost not existent in this game .Solo pvp (1vs1) :prepare to lose to classes that can kite you to death,spellcasters that can magic crit you for 1 gazillion dmg.If you really consider playing this game ask the veterans what class to pick if you dont want to get rolled in pvp.Its not about skill its about gear,buffs,class and epic loots.If you know what assist-train is then you know what mass pvp is at lineage.
example:
10 [CLAN CHAT]:(Madrandomize):Everybody assist me NOW.....
"1 second later -->target dies due to massive dmg and 23414213 arrows that came his way"
20 [CLAN CHAT]:(Madrandomize):Everybody assist me NOW.....
"1 second later -...........
30 GO TO 10
bad algorythm but you get the point.
examples :a SR (silver ranger can kite any class (except other kiting classes ofc) for a week if he wants ,not giving the opponent a single chance to give 1 hit.
a destroyer can (with proper buffs and cooldowns) 1 shot ppl. Watch yurec on devianne server on youtube killing about 15 guys with 1 hit each------->class balance.
On the contrary sieges are fun and if you really like epic battles then lineage's sieges cant get more epic than that.
Those ofc are my opinions ,sry for bad language,sry for not liking the game
sry if i made you depressed 
plz dont ban me
Edit: infinity=lvl 80 and 99% cause you really need infinite time to get there.
Soon comes the day all shall be free.
Even you, and even me.
Soon comes the day all shall die.
Surely you, but never I!
Well, I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry. I had truly hoped that this could be a game I'd find some fun in until others have had some time to develop. The solo grindfest doesn't sound appealing and if the PvP is that unbalanced I can't imagine any reason to level up anyway. In fact, I almost feel like you steered me clear of a loaf Poochie left near the mailbox, then handed me $40.
I'll definately be avoiding this unless someone has some very compelling positive experiences to list.
On a lighter note I'd like to offer a big Congrats to those 33 troopers that made it to the end
To be brutally honest about this game here is a guide to level and get to the more entertaining stuff (if you are not a hardcore player steer clear of this game)
1. activate 2 accounts 1 to be your main class one to be a buffer
2. bot..lets face it at this point the repercussions for doing this are minimal and it takes the grind out of the game
3. prolly need to ebay some adena to get gear least if you want a chance at killing people
4. make an archer or a nuker as an archer tanks are your biggest worry but tanks have to get close to you and you can shoot them from 10 miles away and hit them like you pointed a howitzer at them and pulled the trigger. as a nuker archers are going to one shot you if they get a critical hit ( and thats often specially if they have buffs)
5. sit back and enjoy the drama as it unfolds in hero chat
6. join a zerg and do everything to hose your enemies as humanly possible then laugh about it in vent
7. Siege because this is a blast having a rediculous amount of people run around trying to annihilate each other and talking a ton of smack is entertaining.
8. don't take it personally when someone with epic jewels and top grade overenchanted everything mows you down like a train running over a coke can it's gonna happen.
9 be dazzled by some of the best graphics in a game yet (and this game is old)
10. never trust anyone with any of your gear or account info (this is a given in any game but even more so in L2)
11. talk a lot of smack when you kill someone including tea bagging outlining their body with arrows ect and you must alway tell them..owned...then gf...then dance over their body make sure to soe (unless you are a huge badass) because their friends are prolly on their way.
Hope it was a helpfull entertaining guide
Dirtyjoe is right i must say.All that he says are true
but i have to make some additions.
Yes some adena buying may give you al life till 40 lvl.You will need eventually 7millions adena to get there (counting in soulshots,pots,and also jewels for m.def) .In the process you will make around 500k profit for killing the mobs from 20-40 if you grind like a NORMAL person.If you grind like a farmer you might be able to get 1,5 millions but you will do the same time x3.
From there on you need around another 10 millions at least to get some of the equip to get to 52.In that time you will "barely make the money that soulshot costs if you play normally.At 52 be prepared to spend 80 millions to get some decent equip,to get you to 61.
From 61 to more lvls you ned to stop calculating in adena but in months.If you want to be competitive between grades you MUST have the best equip.Other ebayers will kill you faster and easier when you have lower equip,you will grind sloooowwwweeeerrrr with lower equip.
You will NEVER get the money to get proper equip at your lvl.I know legit people with Cgrade equip that were grinding their B grade equip in their 65 lvl..... that is 13 painfull levels over their grade (which is b grade and going to A grade)
The graphics of the game are in good levels and the characters are detailed perfectly .i cant say the same for the landscape BUT the grass is making it prettier.Be prepared to play in low quality during sieges and when you are inside a city to avoid a headache (sp).
Haveing 2 acoounts is an option but it makes the grind longer cause you grind for 2 people and your character splits the exp with the other character in half (if both are same lvl),someone can say :leave the other character outside of the party and lvl your main toon and use the other for buffs only,but if its your first char then then the other must lvl up in order to get skills and more buffs.You will end up lvling 2 chars and really expand your grinding time to x1.5 instead of x1(when you had 1 account).Also with 2 accounts you may need to buy for the second account some gear (at least the basic) which means you need more money.
1 example of the ammount of money you need for an lvl 40 epic jewel is Ant queen's ring (lvl 40 epic) Which costs 900 millions ....
you cant go and get it cause you need to be at most 45lvl to try the boss (if you are higher you are having a penalty and you cant get drops from the boss) and you wont find a chance cause is camped by bot managers that set up bot parties to kill the boss.If you go near and if you try to attack the boss you WILL get attacked by the bot manager of the local boss (bot)party.
Its like mafia..... nc soft does not do anything about it and the best of all is that it happens all the time.
I call every lineage fanboy to try and prove me a lier but isnt this what happens in the game?
Search google for the condition of the bot groups in every server.Write something like this "bot group,raid boss,lineage 2,epic jewel"
i am sure you will come up with some results about the topic.
And btw in order to experience some fun in the game you need to be a cheater (botting) or an e-bayer or both,If thats okay with you i am fine and i can say that even i had some "fun" on the game if you know what i mean.
I know alot of repectfull persons (in the server they are respected) on devianne (real life and over 30 ppl) that had payed over 500euros in in-game currency.And 5 of them over 2000euros.
Buy a car instead of pixels plz.(thats what i tell them).
Oh and 900millions adena are about 600euros only t buy 1 ring.
PLZ DONT BAN ME .....I am backing up my beliefs with reasons and some facts ......
The game can be fun but it is very hard to play legit in a sea of cheaters and botters.
sry for bad english
Soon comes the day all shall be free.
Even you, and even me.
Soon comes the day all shall die.
Surely you, but never I!
1 more thing .When you die you lose 4% of your exp.When someone kills you again you lose 4% exp.If a bishop is near you can get some exp back.4%at 70 lvl =maybe 3-4 hours of solo grind or maybe 2 hours of party grind.YOU WILL MAKE IT PERSONAL if someone makes you grind for 2-3 more hours if he zergs you with epic equipment.You will get frustrated and its a fact.If this is a motivation to grind harder and be better at this game then this game might be what you like.You have been warned ,you may and eventually will be pissed if something like this happens.(cause it costs you REAL time and money to get that 4% back).I am not over reacting.
Soon comes the day all shall be free.
Even you, and even me.
Soon comes the day all shall die.
Surely you, but never I!
above posters all have valid points. how ever problem resides within every MMO, it just happen to be more open in L2. True game is not meant for a casual player and if you are kind person that likes challenge then this and eve might be the game for you. marketing in this game plays big role on ow you will fare, A lot of people spends 1/4 if not half of the time in Gian and DIon playing market trying to make money. Sure ebay can help you but will don't think it will get you far, it will never be enough that's why unless you really are a rich person irl and really don't wanna understand this part of the game then Ebay is not worth it.
Over all the game is harsh but it has everything and will have a lot more to offer as time comes by just matter of how much time and effort you willing to invested in it. Though I would say if you new to the genera this game might not be the good starting point.
I italicized and underlined the main point here. I like L2 don't ask why because i can come up with more reasons not to like it than i can to like it but i still play it. Overall this game is meant to take YEARS, and i mean that in the literal sence, to accomplish things getting into this game at this point is difficult since there are people that are top level on their main and all their subs (not many but ther are a lot of people in the 77-78+ range on main and at least one sub) If you like playing a game the way it should be played then this game is definately not for you because everyone else is going to cheat (everyone = majority by far) if you do manage to get to 76+ to get top grade gear is a feat in and of it self, all the crafting recipies are 60% success and for something that can take months to aquire all the necissary components for (if you play straight, on that note longer if you play straight) to have the craft fail is utterly devistating not to mention you NEED to have a clan or a guild to accomplish some of the critical tasks that go into getting some of these components.
If all that does not dissuade you from giving this game a shot i gaurentee you will not find a game or TV show for that matter that has more drama, backstabbing, hate and discontent as this one offers.
I appreciate all the replies, but I was pretty much dead set against it as soon as I heard e-bay. I never minded a somewhat inflated economy and I can farm if necesary to offset it, but cheating/botting just isn't my bag. No offense to any of you, it's your money and you are welcome to spend it however you wish, but you do understand that e-baying perpetuates the cycle, right? If there is no demand, there is no supply.
If I wanted to grind away for a year on my way to a game that might be enjoyable someday, I'd still be playing VG.
On the other hand, drama, backstabbing, hate and discontent do sound pretty appealing
If you'd actually read what people said you would have noticed that they said you don't need to ebay to succeed. In fact, it usually has negative consequences, since you'll never be able to buy enough adena to satisfy your needs, and by relying on it, you'll actually suck at the game despite your l33t equipment. And if you actually take the time to look on the server forums on the official forums, you'll notice most of the clans recruiting there don't want ebayers. Thanks to the academy system, it's actually pretty easy to level and advance in the game. And clans are eager to recruit new players, since they can be groomed for PvP, which is the ultimate end game of L2.
Of course, discovering all of this information takes a little bit of initiative, rather than simply relying on the opinions of people on this cesspit of a website. In that case, probably best if you do stay away.
I feel you hit the bullseye on this one, however. So, I will take this oportunity to disregard your opinions.
You read what you want to read and answer your own questions without regarding anything else. But that's okay, you fit right in with crowd.
I agree with most of the points raised about the game, including the inevitable ebaying that goes along with the game.
But I will agree with Shakey on one point, people fail to realize that real success in Lineage 2 is a combination of winning in three areas of the game. First, the obvious work to level up your character to 70...difficult, but not the greatest challenge you'll face.
The more difficult task is learn to profit from the economy. Despite what people say, if you take the time (and spend the money for a crafting alt account) you can actually make enough money to fund your gear. But its not easy to do, adds to your overall play time.. (L2 really was designed to be played for years, maybe even more so than EVE) and few players have the patience for it.
Many people chose the easier route of buying adena......
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I have been at this game for almost 3 years and no my toon is not lvl 80 yet...close but lvling at 76+ is a bit painfull. I have 2 dwarfs one spoiler and one crafter. I also have 3 accounts one with a buffer and the other with a bladedancer. times are a bit rough for L2 finding anyone to party with can be a bit of a chore so i did turn to automating my buffer and bladedancer at this point the concequences for it are minimal and i do not like getting rolled like a penny on a railroad track specially when it costs a few hours of leveling time. i do still enjoy the game for the most part which is more than i can say for any other mmo i have tried up to this point. Making money in this game is a hell of a task but being able to spoil your own mats and craft weapons and armor is a good start. Making your support network of toons is crucial to getting by in this game. I manage to do so and make some money on top of it. Seiges and the olimpiad keep me entertained with the little time i do have to play in the mean time it is all craft shops to make money and sell shops hopefully they will implement an auction house so i don't have to use one toon all the time for a sell shop....server transfers would be a plus too.
Oh so true, this site is the last place on the internet to get any real info or accurate opinion on anything game related. Most of these people don't even play the games they troll about.
mmorpg.com is a troll resort. (hence my presence)
If you want to sabre rattle or talk trash about a game, this is a great site however if you have actual questions about a game, this is the last place place you want to look at.
People here are nice compared to L2blah...you want nothing but ignorant sh1t talking, owned and other uneducated forms of replay such as your mom go post there. At least here there there are a hell of a lot more people that can form a sentence or give a somewhat intelligent reply to a post.
Well i feel a little bad
. I may have been a little harsh on this game.
Although this game is truly an idea that didnt work quite good for the company that made it (others can say that it was planned from the start to go that way and it worked really well for the company).I am talking about the 3rd party software and the bad economy in the previous sentence.
It is a hard pvp game ,you need to have strong clan relationships to be able to compete and lots of time in order to be ahead of the equipment and lvl status of the others.
I still believe that this game is not for new players at this time.(although its easier to level in lower levels than it was before 3 years)
I still believe all the points i made in my previous posts.
Also the company really doesnt seem to care much about the european and american servers.Patches really are leftovers from the korean build of the client.The official lineage forums are full of people screaming about the bot problems,Suggesting ideas to improve the game ,report bugs ,but noone listens to them.
How many times after a new patch problems occure?
Countless.Firefox not loading pages if lineage is simutaneously running,gameguard failure to connect to its own server,linux users getting banned for playing L2 through linux and many more problems(i thought i read it on some ubuntu forums this).
the responces from nc soft are :We are unable to resolve the problem ,contact gameguard (which apparently doesnt have an email address in their english page last time i checked) P.E.
The european/american subscribers have no voice over the evolution of the game,its korean customers that are heard.
Yes you can feel like you have achieved something in this game,After all the fighting with bots cheaters ebayers you have the sence that you really made it ,that you are a winner that won ,not the game's ultimate goals but the fight between botters and ebayers.
For me ,i couldnt win .... so i joined them (a month before ultimately leaving the game).Now i am done with it,and thus i advise you not to take this painfull trip to L2.
Sorry for making your days moody guys
(reffering to those that play the game and/or the ones that plan on buying/trying out)
It was that this game burned me out (as they say in english).For me the cons are far more than the pros.The game is already starting to shrink ,now with the server transfers this might be a problem than a solution cause maybe some low pop servers are gonna be abandoned now.Thus resulting in server merges.<<<<<------ This is my speculation and i might be wrong.
I suggest the OP to try the game for 14 days (if he finds a free trial) that will answer some of his questions about the game interface,graphics,movement,grinding
,but he wont be able to find out the other problems that may occure after lvl 20,also 50 dwarfs deleveling at the dwarf village hitting the guards doesnt help either.
I apologise once again for having typos and sentences that doesnt make sense but its not my native language.
P.s. (i quit but NO you cannot have my stuff)
Soon comes the day all shall be free.
Even you, and even me.
Soon comes the day all shall die.
Surely you, but never I!
I agree it didn't go over here in the west though. Players here didn't "get it" from the start so they resorted to cheats right out the door.
Couldent get past level 5. Ew.
I agree it didn't go over here in the west though. Players here didn't "get it" from the start so they resorted to cheats right out the door."
Indeed what you say is true ,the game is a major success in korea and other asian countries and less appealing to the western countries,but i was talking about the problem with 3rd parties software and in-game economy at that sentence.
Also this sentence (the sentence in my previous post i mean) doesnt make any sense cause i start with "Although" and i didint complete it.Its a bit early here in greece and i havent slept the night and cant use my brain at this moment.
Also about the server merges i was talking about ,this is really my speculation based on my opinion of the game's current state and it might be far from right.
edit: many many many typos
Soon comes the day all shall be free.
Even you, and even me.
Soon comes the day all shall die.
Surely you, but never I!
OK OK OK, everyone back to their corners while I give Lineage 2 a standing 8 count!
I didn't mean to hit a nerve with anyone, just wanted some info on the game (supported by examples). Some gave good examples and others just wanted to troll, and that's to be expected here I guess. Trolls aside, there is good information on this site, and you need only ask in the proper way and disregard anything you didn't ask for. I think the answers given by those who responded (to the questions I asked, of course) in a decisive and mature tone is all I need know. Everyone else.....well, that was the trolls.
In any case, I'm done with this thread, you guys can have it.
DING DING!
Anyway, I don't know about any server merges for L2, they last added on last Sept. (Euro) I agree on the bots and crap, its to bad they took out "whites" chance of dropping, that was the only thing that made it tolerable IMHO. I didn't mind bots so much when I could train them and take their stuff.
I might give it a go once the new expansion releases in the next few months. I still have some old guildies playing and an unused timecard floating around.
Most of this is true but let me make a few points.
Buying currency with RL money does not perpetuate anything. Widespread RMT is the effect of BROKEN GAME MECHANICS. Fix L2's economy and people will stop buying adena (or, at least, many fewer people will).
In-game, farmers aren't a problem. They just bot afk in areas where no one else does, and if you want their room, you just train some mobs on them and wait for them to die. Free room. It's not like the old days when adena bosses would round up their high level crew and stomp you.
And ebaying adena doesn't have any negative consequences unless someone else finds out.
Let's see,
1. Play the game how it's "supposed to be played" (lol?)
2. Roll an alt dwarf and spend your first 6 months in Giran with an AFK shop open 24/7 on the computer you aren't allowed to turn off.
3. Ebay. (adena is dirt cheap anymore)
No you can never ebay enough but once you get into a-grade, what you make just from grinding will be plenty to stay competetive (and happy).
I am not saying ebaying is ok, i think it is bullshit. But the problem isn't the players who buy adena or the farmers who sell it. The problem is the game and only by fixing the game will you fix the RMT problem.
By the way, the haters talk about epics as if they are commonplace. But really they are extremely rare and with a few exceptions are only owned by people who have been playing for years.
RMT is a clear problem in EVERY western MMO. Its not just L2. Even games with horrendously easy economies like WoW, SWG, EQII or Guild Wars are flooded with sellers/buyers. Christ, even Vanguard has gold spammers in it
. None of those games have a "broken game economy" and yet they are inundated with RMT problems.
Its the western playstyle / mindset thats the problem and relatively easy to get and cheap currencies for all MMO's. There isn't a darn thing game companies can do about it either because its the players choice to use it and where there is demand, there will ALWAYS be supply, thats just how it works. No one forces anyone to buy the currency, it a choice. You could choose not play, not do it or just ignore it but a large portion of players in ALL MMOs support it by using it.
The only option game companies have is to radically change the design of MMO's (which they are doing)
All current western MMOs are defacto item shop games now a days, the only difference is players are using a third party and paying a monthly sub.
Go to any game, its the same old issues, L2 is just the kicking post for it here on this site because its a Korean made game, has a tough grind and western forum posters like to dig into it because of that. Its no better or worse off then any other game.
You are right Torak, there is no way to completely stop RMT. But you can't draw those kind of comparisons from L2 to games like WOW.
L2's game mechanics encourage RMT to the point where hardly anyone is "legit" anymore. If you don't believe me just port to Gludin or Gludio and count how many lowbies are decked out in top gear.
I have rolled 4 mains and 3 buffpets since I resubbed back in May, and i have never found a pick up group without people who have full gear and spam soulshots. Never. Many are twinked rerolls, but many are newcomers (usually from private servers) who have absolutely no means of having that kind of adena through legit play.
And you never see players in town with random gear like mid d/c grade unless it's an acumen stick on a buffer or something.
I think it would be accurate to say that the majority of newcomers are ebaying. What other game can you say the same for?
RMT in these other games is a big deal, but it's completely out of control in L2. And NC soft is content to encourage it.
I think that drop rates are the single largest gaping hole in L2's design. I'm not talking adena, i mean items, materials, consumables, recipes, etc etc.
And by now this is ad nauseum but these things would be practically nonexistant if it weren't for adena farmers. L2's entire economy is based on RMT sales and the farmers who reap their profits.
Call me a conspiracy theorist but i swear to you, NC soft has deliberately manipulated game mechanics to not only encourage this model but make players and as a result the entire game dependent on it.
RMT might exist in other games but nowhere near the scale in L2.
Well isurus, again, to a point I do not disagree However (hehehe) I can draw comparisons as you can go to any RMT site and see what games have currecny for sale and monitor the price fluctuations over the course of a week or month as supply / demand works its magic.
WoW is by far the largest RMT money maker of all. Its the king of RMT. Hundreds of servers all with currency available to buy. Look at my other post, RMT spam is rampid in all SOE games as well as my station account just expired last week. I'm here to tell you can't log and not recieve a tell within 2 minutes to buy gold at XYZ site.
Whatever the point is with L2, its not isolated to just this game. I'm not into conspiricy theories and no company likes to lose money to another who exploits their products. Thats business.
L2 is small fries compared to other games. It simply doesn't have the western subscriber base to support the est. 1 billion dollars in NA RMT sales in 2006. I highly doubt that L2's approx 100,000 players have spent that sort of cash. (thats like 10,000 per L2 player...lol...you are dreaming if you think that is even a remote possibility)
Anyway, who cares?
As you pointed out in your other post, there is no way to know in any case....you are making many many assumptions and trying to pass them off as fact. L2 probably provides a tidy little profit but the meat of the RMT industry is WoW.