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GW:EN Did anyone else catch that? (And the updated AI)

KaibyakuKaibyaku Member Posts: 65

GW:EN, also known as Gwen, yes, we all know now that its out, that she is a hero in game. Ahhh but, they did not mention, that in Eye of the North, the Hero AI has also been Updated. Actually, thats not true, they mentioned, but it was a one day, foot not, at the login screen. Now I can't actually tell if the AI is better or not. They seem to act the same or...dumber. I dunno what do you guys think? Have you noticed a difference? And did you catch the GW:EN thing?

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Comments

  • SerlingSerling Member Posts: 662

    The new mob AI is frustratingly different.  And the bosses are a lot harder to kill for a hero/hench only team.  For example, my Rits in just about any other campaign have been able to set spirits as close to a mob as possible before attacking.  In EoTN, the mobs are always moving, so that by the time you start setting spirits up for an attack, the mob is already either attacking (before you're ready) or moving out of range.  The bottom line is that you're either having to attack or being attacked before you're ready.  That creates some interesting problems for a hero/hench only team.

    The huge number of dervishes in just about every mob now mean that they have a very effective counter against minions and spirits (something that began in Nightfall, btw).

    So while you could pretty much own any map in Factions with an MM or a Rit, Nightfall and now EoTN have reduced them to mere human status again.  And A-Net was able to achieve this with nary a nerf to these two professions by the time GW:EN came out.  Something you'd wish other companies would learn.

  • lightbladelightblade Member Posts: 219

     

    Originally posted by Serling


    The new mob AI is frustratingly different.  And the bosses are a lot harder to kill for a hero/hench only team.  For example, my Rits in just about any other campaign have been able to set spirits as close to a mob as possible before attacking.  In EoTN, the mobs are always moving, so that by the time you start setting spirits up for an attack, the mob is already either attacking (before you're ready) or moving out of range.  The bottom line is that you're either having to attack or being attacked before you're ready.  That creates some interesting problems for a hero/hench only team.
    The huge number of dervishes in just about every mob now mean that they have a very effective counter against minions and spirits (something that began in Nightfall, btw).
    So while you could pretty much own any map in Factions with an MM or a Rit, Nightfall and now EoTN have reduced them to mere human status again.  And A-Net was able to achieve this with nary a nerf to these two professions by the time GW:EN came out.  Something you'd wish other companies would learn.



    1. Summon Spirit http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Summon_Spirits

     

    2. That's not gonna stop you from maintaining 10 minions

  • 8hammer88hammer8 Member Posts: 1,812

    Originally posted by lightblade


     
    Originally posted by Serling


    The new mob AI is frustratingly different.  And the bosses are a lot harder to kill for a hero/hench only team.  For example, my Rits in just about any other campaign have been able to set spirits as close to a mob as possible before attacking.  In EoTN, the mobs are always moving, so that by the time you start setting spirits up for an attack, the mob is already either attacking (before you're ready) or moving out of range.  The bottom line is that you're either having to attack or being attacked before you're ready.  That creates some interesting problems for a hero/hench only team.
    The huge number of dervishes in just about every mob now mean that they have a very effective counter against minions and spirits (something that began in Nightfall, btw).
    So while you could pretty much own any map in Factions with an MM or a Rit, Nightfall and now EoTN have reduced them to mere human status again.  And A-Net was able to achieve this with nary a nerf to these two professions by the time GW:EN came out.  Something you'd wish other companies would learn.



    1. Summon Spirit http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Summon_Spirits

     

    2. That's not gonna stop you from maintaining 10 minions

    Lightblade while your skill post there might help, you have to see the point he would be adding a skill to a bar that did not need to be used previously.  By taking that skill he has to take a possibly more useful/effective skill off, this is what he meant by nerfing without actually making any numerical adjustments.  The same thing can be said for Searing Flames eley's in GW:EN who all of a sudden had to go, "Oh snap I have to use a new elite. Ohes noes"  I myself was a fire ele headed into GW:EN, I however prefered Elemental Attunement to other elites, and I quickly turned to earth upon getting into GW:EN.  At 11:35 I was loading into GW:EN by 12:00 I said earth is going to be what I need based on wards and such.  I enjoy earth so much now that I am not looking back to fire except in certain situations.

    Same idea with minions...where the same minions basically could romp thru most of a level and tear things up,  MM's are now having to raise them more because they are falling in mass now.  That is not say you can't keep 10 minions up because there are normally 5-8 baddies in a mob plus a death or two by your group.

    Personally, I love the mobs in GW:EN.  I love the challenge of Chromatic Drakes with their dam 4 elites (including obsidian flesh and sliver armor).  The harder things are while being consistent, the more it challenges your tactics and your ability to plan how you are going to attack a mob.  I love the fact that you can't just run into a mob and expect to live every time.

    The people who whine about mobs being to hard are too lazy to switch a build and try out new skills, and I hope they continue to get pwned until they do.

    "It is easier to be cruel than wise. The road to wisdom is long and difficult... so most people just turn out to be assholes" Feng (Christopher Walken)

  • KaibyakuKaibyaku Member Posts: 65

    Originally posted by 8hammer8


     
    Originally posted by lightblade


     
    Originally posted by Serling


    The new mob AI is frustratingly different.  And the bosses are a lot harder to kill for a hero/hench only team.  For example, my Rits in just about any other campaign have been able to set spirits as close to a mob as possible before attacking.  In EoTN, the mobs are always moving, so that by the time you start setting spirits up for an attack, the mob is already either attacking (before you're ready) or moving out of range.  The bottom line is that you're either having to attack or being attacked before you're ready.  That creates some interesting problems for a hero/hench only team.
    The huge number of dervishes in just about every mob now mean that they have a very effective counter against minions and spirits (something that began in Nightfall, btw).
    So while you could pretty much own any map in Factions with an MM or a Rit, Nightfall and now EoTN have reduced them to mere human status again.  And A-Net was able to achieve this with nary a nerf to these two professions by the time GW:EN came out.  Something you'd wish other companies would learn.



    1. Summon Spirit http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Summon_Spirits

     

    2. That's not gonna stop you from maintaining 10 minions

    Lightblade while your skill post there might help, you have to see the point he would be adding a skill to a bar that did not need to be used previously.  By taking that skill he has to take a possibly more useful/effective skill off, this is what he meant by nerfing without actually making any numerical adjustments.  The same thing can be said for Searing Flames eley's in GW:EN who all of a sudden had to go, "Oh snap I have to use a new elite. Ohes noes"  I myself was a fire ele headed into GW:EN, I however prefered Elemental Attunement to other elites, and I quickly turned to earth upon getting into GW:EN.  At 11:35 I was loading into GW:EN by 12:00 I said earth is going to be what I need based on wards and such.  I enjoy earth so much now that I am not looking back to fire except in certain situations.

     

    Same idea with minions...where the same minions basically could romp thru most of a level and tear things up,  MM's are now having to raise them more because they are falling in mass now.  That is not say you can't keep 10 minions up because there are normally 5-8 baddies in a mob plus a death or two by your group.

    Personally, I love the mobs in GW:EN.  I love the challenge of Chromatic Drakes with their dam 4 elites (including obsidian flesh and sliver armor).  The harder things are while being consistent, the more it challenges your tactics and your ability to plan how you are going to attack a mob.  I love the fact that you can't just run into a mob and expect to live every time.

    The people who whine about mobs being to hard are too lazy to switch a build and try out new skills, and I hope they continue to get pwned until they do.

    As a matter of fact, I had a build that was rejected by GUILDWIKI, or well, PVXWIKI now, for my paragon, that works perfectly for GW:EN, Which I think is very interesting. Partially because there was nothing wrong with the build in the first place, but mostly because it works even in more in GW:EN.

     

    I agree with you, i've had alot of people critisize me for not being a motivational and or command paragon. (I think I have one command skill in my pve build, if i'm not using warrior tactics.) But they learn quickly when I do pressure damage, and wipe out mobs in 2 or 3 seconds. Of course i'm useless on flame mobs, and that is the only time ill throw up my motivation/leadership build.

     

    Hero AI seems to be a bit more responsive, they probably had to update them to adjust for the insane battles you face later in GW:EN.

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  • SerlingSerling Member Posts: 662

    One of the nice things about the mob AI changes has been that I no longer feel compelled to go with the standard "Tank, Healer, MM, Nuker" formula for success.  It's fun experimenting with skill and team synergies again (although any team now almost requires a battery nec and at least one good protector or warder).

    In one GW:EN mission recently (Against the Charr/Attacking the Stronghold)), my ranger took 3 hero rangers and their pets, all spec'd for B/P with elemental secondary for Conjure.  And, just for fun, I made all the conjures different, so that if the Charr resisted fire, they'd get nailed by my lightning or water conjurer.  :)  The Henchies for that mission consisted of Lina, Mhenlo, Eve and Talon Silverwing.   I was actually able to beat that mission without a single death, whereas my rit's "standard build" team had some trouble with it. 

    In essence, I find I'm experimenting more with team builds and mixing up my secondaries and skills more.  It's kinda' forcing me to be a little more creative in how I put my skills and teams together.   And that can't be all bad.

  • SerlingSerling Member Posts: 662

    Summon spirits looks cool, but I probably wouldn't use it for the same reason I don't use draw spirit now:  I'd either have to give up damage or defense for a spirit travel power, and with most recharge times on spirits at 30 seconds now, it's not that big a deal to resummon when needed.

  • GodliestGodliest Member Posts: 3,486


    Originally posted by Kaibyaku

    Originally posted by 8hammer8



    Originally posted by lightblade



    Originally posted by Serling

    The new mob AI is frustratingly different. And the bosses are a lot harder to kill for a hero/hench only team. For example, my Rits in just about any other campaign have been able to set spirits as close to a mob as possible before attacking. In EoTN, the mobs are always moving, so that by the time you start setting spirits up for an attack, the mob is already either attacking (before you're ready) or moving out of range. The bottom line is that you're either having to attack or being attacked before you're ready. That creates some interesting problems for a hero/hench only team.
    The huge number of dervishes in just about every mob now mean that they have a very effective counter against minions and spirits (something that began in Nightfall, btw).
    So while you could pretty much own any map in Factions with an MM or a Rit, Nightfall and now EoTN have reduced them to mere human status again. And A-Net was able to achieve this with nary a nerf to these two professions by the time GW:EN came out. Something you'd wish other companies would learn.


    1. Summon Spirit http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Summon_Spirits

    2. That's not gonna stop you from maintaining 10 minions


    Lightblade while your skill post there might help, you have to see the point he would be adding a skill to a bar that did not need to be used previously. By taking that skill he has to take a possibly more useful/effective skill off, this is what he meant by nerfing without actually making any numerical adjustments. The same thing can be said for Searing Flames eley's in GW:EN who all of a sudden had to go, "Oh snap I have to use a new elite. Ohes noes" I myself was a fire ele headed into GW:EN, I however prefered Elemental Attunement to other elites, and I quickly turned to earth upon getting into GW:EN. At 11:35 I was loading into GW:EN by 12:00 I said earth is going to be what I need based on wards and such. I enjoy earth so much now that I am not looking back to fire except in certain situations.

    Same idea with minions...where the same minions basically could romp thru most of a level and tear things up, MM's are now having to raise them more because they are falling in mass now. That is not say you can't keep 10 minions up because there are normally 5-8 baddies in a mob plus a death or two by your group.
    Personally, I love the mobs in GW:EN. I love the challenge of Chromatic Drakes with their dam 4 elites (including obsidian flesh and sliver armor). The harder things are while being consistent, the more it challenges your tactics and your ability to plan how you are going to attack a mob. I love the fact that you can't just run into a mob and expect to live every time.
    The people who whine about mobs being to hard are too lazy to switch a build and try out new skills, and I hope they continue to get pwned until they do.

    As a matter of fact, I had a build that was rejected by GUILDWIKI, or well, PVXWIKI now, for my paragon, that works perfectly for GW:EN, Which I think is very interesting. Partially because there was nothing wrong with the build in the first place, but mostly because it works even in more in GW:EN.

    I agree with you, I've had a lot of people criticize me for not being a motivational and or command paragon. (I think I have one command skill in my pve build, if I'm not using warrior tactics.) But they learn quickly when I do pressure damage, and wipe out mobs in 2 or 3 seconds. Of course I'm useless on flame mobs, and that is the only time ill throw up my motivation/leadership build.

    Hero AI seems to be a bit more responsive, they probably had to update them to adjust for the insane battles you face later in GW:EN.

    As a frequent visitor to PvXWiki (Godliest) I would advise to never mind those people over there. If your build worked, then why care what others think?

    Regarding the AI change all I can say is that I mostly PvP and well, not much mobs in PvP. (Except one arena, never been there though).

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  • KaibyakuKaibyaku Member Posts: 65

    You should play the story, its more like a traditional rpg than most people realize! Check it out!

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