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Have they made the Elves too strong???

Ok, I got the newsletter yesterday (8/29) and just finished going through everything. I don't know if anyone remembers that thread we had going around about which archetype we are going to be. In that thread, I remember writing how it's a toss up for me between the Witch Hunter and Chosen.

Now after reading up on the 1st 4 Elven professions, I just don't know. I may be wrong, but it does seem like the Elven classes are much more favored over the others. For example... I liked the Chosen because of it's armor and weaponry, but the Black Guard trumps the Chosen dramatically. The thought of wielding a halberd while my sword sits at my side is mindblowing! Paul B. mentioned in the pod cast that the Black Guard will have the most enormous weapons in the game, and their armor is just plain sick!

The High Elves have tanks (Swordmasters)that will be just as strong with their swords as they will be with magic. Let me just say it's a good thing the Swordmasters will be on the same side as the Ironbreakers!

Let me just point out one more advantage as I continue my rant... Who the heck wants to be a Bright Wizard when you can be an Archmage? Again referring to Paul, he basically said the Archmage will have the power to draw magic energy from those around them - and he flat out said they have the best special effects in the game. He even suggested they give the Bright Wizard some of those effects. Besides all that, we already know the Elves are the strongest magic wielders -AND- the Archmage is also the healing profession for the High Elves.

Hmmm... take a healer, let him never run out of energy by absorbing others', and give him the strongest magic in the game... know what your doing and it sounds like a pretty good 55 Monk build (guild wars reference) if you ask me! ;) Get a group of 4-5 Archmages and they'll virtually be unstoppable.

I may be overreacting to what I've heard and read, or maybe I'm taking things too literally, but it really does seem the two Elven classes a far superior to the others. It's the perfect way to ruin what looks to be a great great game. I'd hate to login and see half the people playing as Elves because they own all the other races. After a while, it'll be just the High Elves vs the Dark Elves.

Thoughts?

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Comments

  • VirgoThreeVirgoThree Member UncommonPosts: 1,198

    Lol I think your overreacting a little bit. They are just hyping up the latest classes announced. I believe each race has the 4 archetypes of classes, and they more then likely all do their jobs equally well but with a different style. I'd imagine that Bright wizard although limited to fire magic is much better at straight up nuking then Archmage. While Archmage sounds like they just have more variety with what type of magic to use, but that doesn't mean overpowering. These are just assumptions on my behalf so don't take them as fact. I'm not basing this really on lore because from my understanding Archmage would just own automatically if it were solely lore base.

  • fasafasa Member Posts: 67

    Yes, you seem to take things literally. Mythic did a great job balancing the classes in DAoC so I honestly beleive that they will do a great job with WAR too.

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  • Dippy11Dippy11 Member UncommonPosts: 283

    I understand how it might sound at this point, but keep in mind that the game still has months of Beta testing to go.  I'm sure that WAR will not be released with such obvious imbalance. 

    No worries, man. 

     

     

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  • atziluthatziluth Member UncommonPosts: 1,190

    Originally posted by JohnnyMotrin


    Ok, I got the newsletter yesterday (8/29) and just finished going through everything. I don't know if anyone remembers that thread we had going around about which archetype we are going to be. In that thread, I remember writing how it's a toss up for me between the Witch Hunter and Chosen.
    Now after reading up on the 1st 4 Elven professions, I just don't know. I may be wrong, but it does seem like the Elven classes are much more favored over the others. For example... I liked the Chosen because of it's armor and weaponry, but the Black Guard trumps the Chosen dramatically. The thought of wielding a halberd while my sword sits at my side is mindblowing! Paul B. mentioned in the pod cast that the Black Guard will have the most enormous weapons in the game, and their armor is just plain sick!
    The High Elves have tanks (Swordmasters)that will be just as strong with their swords as they will be with magic. Let me just say it's a good thing the Swordmasters will be on the same side as the Ironbreakers!
    Let me just point out one more advantage as I continue my rant... Who the heck wants to be a Bright Wizard when you can be an Archmage? Again referring to Paul, he basically said the Archmage will have the power to draw magic energy from those around them - and he flat out said they have the best special effects in the game. He even suggested they give the Bright Wizard some of those effects. Besides all that, we already know the Elves are the strongest magic wielders -AND- the Archmage is also the healing profession for the High Elves.
    Hmmm... take a healer, let him never run out of energy by absorbing others', and give him the strongest magic in the game... know what your doing and it sounds like a pretty good 55 Monk build (guild wars reference) if you ask me! ;) Get a group of 4-5 Archmages and they'll virtually be unstoppable.
    I may be overreacting to what I've heard and read, or maybe I'm taking things too literally, but it really does seem the two Elven classes a far superior to the others. It's the perfect way to ruin what looks to be a great great game. I'd hate to login and see half the people playing as Elves because they own all the other races. After a while, it'll be just the High Elves vs the Dark Elves.
    Thoughts?
    My thought is you need to relax and wait for beta.

     

    Lets clear up a couple of points.

    1) Everything in warhammer has big weapons. Have you seen the pod cast with the female knight of the sun with a  sword twice her hight?

    2) Archmage is a healer hybrid archtype. That means their DPS will be below the pure DPS classes. What Paul was saying is that archmages have access to all the winds of magic while a class like bright wizard only has access to fire. That bright wizards will still out DPS the archmage because of mechanics.

    3) none of us can say which class trumps which. You are wandering way outside anything we know right now.

    4) People will play humans and elves more then any other race simply because they are pretty. This happens in every MMO.

     

    Take a deep breath and say "Mythic has it under control..." repeat as needed.

    -Atziluth-

    - Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.

  • DistasteDistaste Member UncommonPosts: 665

    Originally posted by JohnnyMotrin


    Ok, I got the newsletter yesterday (8/29) and just finished going through everything. I don't know if anyone remembers that thread we had going around about which archetype we are going to be. In that thread, I remember writing how it's a toss up for me between the Witch Hunter and Chosen.
    Now after reading up on the 1st 4 Elven professions, I just don't know. I may be wrong, but it does seem like the Elven classes are much more favored over the others. For example... I liked the Chosen because of it's armor and weaponry, but the Black Guard trumps the Chosen dramatically. The thought of wielding a halberd while my sword sits at my side is mindblowing! Paul B. mentioned in the pod cast that the Black Guard will have the most enormous weapons in the game, and their armor is just plain sick!
    The High Elves have tanks (Swordmasters)that will be just as strong with their swords as they will be with magic. Let me just say it's a good thing the Swordmasters will be on the same side as the Ironbreakers!
    Let me just point out one more advantage as I continue my rant... Who the heck wants to be a Bright Wizard when you can be an Archmage? Again referring to Paul, he basically said the Archmage will have the power to draw magic energy from those around them - and he flat out said they have the best special effects in the game. He even suggested they give the Bright Wizard some of those effects. Besides all that, we already know the Elves are the strongest magic wielders -AND- the Archmage is also the healing profession for the High Elves.
    Hmmm... take a healer, let him never run out of energy by absorbing others', and give him the strongest magic in the game... know what your doing and it sounds like a pretty good 55 Monk build (guild wars reference) if you ask me! ;) Get a group of 4-5 Archmages and they'll virtually be unstoppable.
    I may be overreacting to what I've heard and read, or maybe I'm taking things too literally, but it really does seem the two Elven classes a far superior to the others. It's the perfect way to ruin what looks to be a great great game. I'd hate to login and see half the people playing as Elves because they own all the other races. After a while, it'll be just the High Elves vs the Dark Elves.
    Thoughts?
    You're looking to far into what was said.

    Swordmasters use magic along side their sword. So swordmaster magic+sword = black orc choppa+strength. Sword masters will use magic to enhance their swordsmanship not to cast spells like fireball/lighteningbolt etc.

    Archmages will be strong but balance will put them in check. Maybe they wont have aoe spells, maybe they will use mana quickly and have to tap frequently, maybe they wont have escape abilities. It is to early to say they are overpowered and place any melee class x2 against 4-5 archmages and there will be a pile of dead archmages.

    Black gaurds are a style choice. Pirates vs ninjas imo. Plenty wont be an elf because the don't want to be a namby pamby elf. Greenskins are like stupid barbarians that only know war. Chaos are like twisted psycho murderers. Dark elves are like a mafia family(they think they own everything and are better then everyone). It is all a matter of what style you want.

  • CelestianCelestian Member UncommonPosts: 1,136


    Originally posted by JohnnyMotrin

    Hmmm... take a healer, let him never run out of energy by absorbing others', and give him the strongest magic in the game... know what your doing and it sounds like a pretty good 55 Monk build (guild wars reference) if you ask me! ;) Get a group of 4-5 Archmages and they'll virtually be unstoppable.

    They wear cloth, they will get gang-banged.

    Just look at WoWs cloth healer, it will be the same. They are a dps/healer in cloth and in PVP it's kill the priest first and they die fast. I can't imagine it'll be different in Warhammer.

    I was hoping that elves wouldn't be cloth healers so I could play one but guess I'm Warrior-priesting it.

  • dolearondolearon Member Posts: 89

    Heres the way i see 4-5 arcmages handeling say 1-2 black guard

    ArchMages: WE IS THE BEST P0wN3r5!!!! we drain mana from our Enemies and use it to ehal and nuke

    Blackgaurds: O look theres only 2 of us we can take one hell o a beating and we have almost no mana to drain.... BUT WAIT!!! we have really big pointy sticks and HATE!! you.... whats that you have almsot no melee abilitie and no armor to speak of AND your as frail as a newborn kittens?... well this will just be fun!

    ArchMages: *this content has been cesored due to its graphic nature*

    or you know somthing like that, because sure some one who can heal and nuke may be nice but they are still a caster and still need the good old fasion meat sheild.

  • judgebeojudgebeo Member Posts: 419

    Originally posted by JohnnyMotrin


    Ok, I got the newsletter yesterday (8/29) and just finished going through everything. I don't know if anyone remembers that thread we had going around about which archetype we are going to be. In that thread, I remember writing how it's a toss up for me between the Witch Hunter and Chosen.
    Now after reading up on the 1st 4 Elven professions, I just don't know. I may be wrong, but it does seem like the Elven classes are much more favored over the others. For example... I liked the Chosen because of it's armor and weaponry, but the Black Guard trumps the Chosen dramatically. The thought of wielding a halberd while my sword sits at my side is mindblowing! Paul B. mentioned in the pod cast that the Black Guard will have the most enormous weapons in the game, and their armor is just plain sick!
    The High Elves have tanks (Swordmasters)that will be just as strong with their swords as they will be with magic. Let me just say it's a good thing the Swordmasters will be on the same side as the Ironbreakers!
    Let me just point out one more advantage as I continue my rant... Who the heck wants to be a Bright Wizard when you can be an Archmage? Again referring to Paul, he basically said the Archmage will have the power to draw magic energy from those around them - and he flat out said they have the best special effects in the game. He even suggested they give the Bright Wizard some of those effects. Besides all that, we already know the Elves are the strongest magic wielders -AND- the Archmage is also the healing profession for the High Elves.
    Hmmm... take a healer, let him never run out of energy by absorbing others', and give him the strongest magic in the game... know what your doing and it sounds like a pretty good 55 Monk build (guild wars reference) if you ask me! ;) Get a group of 4-5 Archmages and they'll virtually be unstoppable.
    I may be overreacting to what I've heard and read, or maybe I'm taking things too literally, but it really does seem the two Elven classes a far superior to the others. It's the perfect way to ruin what looks to be a great great game. I'd hate to login and see half the people playing as Elves because they own all the other races. After a while, it'll be just the High Elves vs the Dark Elves.
    Thoughts?

    Dont you think is better wait for the game and then talk about overpowered and underpowered classes/races? did you test the elves? you know how they work in front other characters? dont you think that "theory" is one thing and, at last, there is another totally different? (just take a look to the dominators on cov, they seem really powerful and are underpowered due to the hp/end.

    So what I think. WAIT wait for the game release and then test, the class/races in every type of combat, perhaps one is more useful than another doing team things and other is great en 1vs1 but you need the game to be released

  • teddy_bareteddy_bare Member UncommonPosts: 398
    Originally posted by dolearon


    Heres the way i see 4-5 arcmages handeling say 1-2 black guard
    ArchMages: WE IS THE BEST P0wN3r5!!!! we drain mana from our Enemies and use it to ehal and nuke
    Blackgaurds: O look theres only 2 of us we can take one hell o a beating and we have almost no mana to drain.... BUT WAIT!!! we have really big pointy sticks and HATE!! you.... whats that you have almsot no melee abilitie and no armor to speak of AND your as frail as a newborn kittens?... well this will just be fun!
    ArchMages: *this content has been cesored due to its graphic nature*
    or you know somthing like that, because sure some one who can heal and nuke may be nice but they are still a caster and still need the good old fasion meat sheild.

    You're buggin. balance wise 4-5 heavy-ranged-dps should be able to burn down 2 tanks fairly easily. You forget that the Archmages magic probably bypasses most, if not all of that heavy armour the Blackguard wears so they may take 1, maybe 2 of the Archmages down with them, but there's no way they'd be able to take all 4 down.

  • dolearondolearon Member Posts: 89

    Just theory just theory and Archmages arnt core nukers they cant rain the pain like other classes who are designed to nuke (like engineers or bright wizards) so I wouldent see them being nearly as effective in that scenario after all Archmages are hybrid healers/nukers who if Im understanding the podcast correctly depend on leeching others in some way for there spell fuel/effectivness.

  • gibbonofdoomgibbonofdoom Member Posts: 46

    I'm looking forward to the High Elf Ranged DPS class.  That class will be able to open the can of woopass onto you destruction players.

    The thing with Elves is (in the lore): they have the best stuff.  The best weapons, the best armour, the best houses, the best drugs, but their pretty frail creatures; get a strike through their armour and their dead.  Because in the lore they have the best stuff, they are going to seem like they have the best stuff:  The biggest, sharpest weapons and the flashiest magic spells.

    Obviously they can't give the Elves the best stuff in an MMO, it just wouldn't work and everyone would end up being Elves.  I have confidence in EAMythic's ability to balance this game, and I'm really looking foward to fighting alongside guildies,

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  • ZiluxZilux Member Posts: 20

    I think that there will be some good balance between the different races. The game still has a lot of time to be balanced out.

    But I do think that the elven races will be much more played then any previous polls made you believe. There is no denying that the 4 revealed elven classes look bad-ass. And they are always played a lot in other MMO's, all the ppl that thought chosen or witch hunter would be overpopulated will be proven wrong now. Because the elves are going to take a lot of previous chosens or witch hunters away.

    I don't doubt that the next 4 elven classes will be nice too, but balanced by the time the game gets out.

  • gibbonofdoomgibbonofdoom Member Posts: 46

    Yeah I agree about the previous polls.  They are pretty much useless before all the information is available anyway.  It changes with current Hype and news and such.  When they first revealed the greenskin and dwarves, everyone got really excited about the dwarves.  Hopefully we've got enough time from the other classes being revealed to release, so that particular race hype dies down, and there is population balance between the various races.

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  • xray00xray00 Member Posts: 202

    Without actually playing there is no way to infer that the elves are getting favorable treatment.  Sure they are hyping them up but then Paul is a die hard Dark Elf fan so that is not surprising.

    Until I get to play I am not about to assume the 'x' class is better than 'y'.  Even if I hear beta reports I won't believe them until I get to play them.  Never pass judgement unless you have direct experience - word of mouth is worthless.

  • jor8888jor8888 Member Posts: 378

    some of the description are bogus like archmage; the most powerful caster with healing. 

  • ZefiusZefius Member Posts: 45

    Ok lets weigh benefits here for a moment. 

    Archmage pros - All the magic, supposedly the best at magic

    Archmage cons - Your a flimsy elf, your in cloth, more then likely you won't be able to spec into all forms of magic (so you'd only be in one or two probly, aka making them much like bright wizards, only with a broader range of customization)

    Blackguard pros - Halbred (so probly decent damage), Cool armor

    Blackguard cons - Your still an elf ! ( so more then likely lower hp ), while the armor LOOKS cool.. it will more then likely be very similar to all other heavy armor ( so this counteracts the pro )

    So basically if your an archmage.. you have the best magic or whatever.. that does not mean that your good in melee.. you could be the WORST there... and die in 2 hits... where as the bright wizard will probly have better defense and hp (being a human).   As for blackguard... to me it sorta seems like playing an elf tank in any other game... if you wanna gimp yourself hit points/stamina wise but look cool.. this is your class.

    In closing, I'm actually thinking quite the opposite of you

  • JohnnyMotrinJohnnyMotrin Member UncommonPosts: 439

    After sleeping on it a bit, you guys are right. I did overreact a bit but in all fairness, it wouldn't be the first game that had unbalanced professions. I thought I read something at this site about how Star Wars Galaxies had uneven profs before they nerfed the game.

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  • JohnnyMotrinJohnnyMotrin Member UncommonPosts: 439


    Originally posted by Zefius
    Ok lets weigh benefits here for a moment.
    Archmage pros - All the magic, supposedly the best at magic
    Archmage cons - Your a flimsy elf, your in cloth, more then likely you won't be able to spec into all forms of magic (so you'd only be in one or two probly, aka making them much like bright wizards, only with a broader range of customization)
    Blackguard pros - Halbred (so probly decent damage), Cool armor
    Blackguard cons - Your still an elf ! ( so more then likely lower hp ), while the armor LOOKS cool.. it will more then likely be very similar to all other heavy armor ( so this counteracts the pro )
    So basically if your an archmage.. you have the best magic or whatever.. that does not mean that your good in melee.. you could be the WORST there... and die in 2 hits... where as the bright wizard will probly have better defense and hp (being a human). As for blackguard... to me it sorta seems like playing an elf tank in any other game... if you wanna gimp yourself hit points/stamina wise but look cool.. this is your class.
    In closing, I'm actually thinking quite the opposite of you

    Let me guess... you don't like Elves! ;)
    You might be leaving out perhaps the greatest advantage the Archmage has, which is to absorb energy from those around them. The Bright Wizard may have more dps, but the archmage has the potential to never lose mp. They also use wind element which is mostly used for slowing the enemy while increasing their own speed (movement/attacks). A good AM should never get touched by a tank, it should be the Witch Elf (assassin prof) they have to worry about.

    As was said earlier, nobody knows how all the skills will come together for the different professions until beta has been well on it's way and we actually get a chance for some hands on! It just goes to show what a fine job they're doing when we can have fun and talk/debate about the strengths of the different profs before we even get a chance to play!

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  • RuthgarRuthgar Member Posts: 730

    I made my mind up to play a Dark elf when I heard about WAR. Elves are supposed to be strong.

  • JetrpgJetrpg Member UncommonPosts: 2,347

    Man talk about crying , we have not even seen them in pvp.

    Too strong i doubt it.

    "Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine

  • JohnnyMotrinJohnnyMotrin Member UncommonPosts: 439

    Not crying... as I'm heavily deciding on making the AM my primary. Just concerned because I don't want this game to go down the same road as let's say SWG.

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  • jezvinjezvin Member UncommonPosts: 804

    The topic of this thread is retarded. We have NO IDEA how strong certain classes are.

    Some classes aren’t even finished being made yet.

    How in the world can you think certain classes are over powered or to strong when we have NO IDEA HOW STRONG ANY CLASS IS. Not to mention they are all subject to change atm and I doubt anything but basic balance has been done in the beta.

     

    -------------------------------------------------
    Achiever 20.00%, Explorer 86.67%, Killer 60.00%, Socializer 33.33%

    EKSA
    -------------------------------------------------

  • Cirn0Cirn0 Member Posts: 162

    I think its too early to judge the balance of the game just by an article or two. Still I hope that archmages will be similar to DnD mages - spells doesn't mean lots of numbers and corpses around you, its a tool which can be used in a various ways, depending on your ability to handle it.

    p.s. nowadays mages are just freaks who study magic only to annihilate everything in their path... TT

    IZI MODO?! Ha-ha-ha!

  • BadSpockBadSpock Member UncommonPosts: 7,979

    be nice to the OP, asking an honest question.

    No need to flame.

    Being the last of the racial pairings they are working on, it is not hard to imagine that all they have learned, mistakes and all, from designing the first two racial pairings may have taught them a great deal about how they want to do Elves/DE. That being said, they may seem "better" because they have the gift of years of development behind the other races at their starting designs.

    Get my drift?

    I have no fear things will be balanced well, just food for thought.

  • ZefiusZefius Member Posts: 45

    To be honest, yes... I don't like the elves.. but I'm not just bashing on them.. I'm giving upsides and downsides.  I highly doubt the devs of WAR are just getting bored of making their game balanced... and were just like "Hey, lets give the elves ALL the magic... I mean.. their the elves, we all like elves right? ... and lets make em JUST the same as bright wizards to, just better". 

    Seems a bit ridiculous yeah?  I have no doubt their trying their hardest to make classes/races be different but at the same time be balanced.  Does this mean it WILL be balanced? More then likely not... cause if they got it perfect on their first shot, even before hundreds of thousands of people flood into the game... I'd be REALLY suprised.  As alot of people have said, its not even out yet... none of us have any idea what anything will be like till we try it ourselves.

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