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My Review of City of Heroes

MackerniMackerni Member Posts: 230

I am a CoH veteran. I played in the beginning and I played the last few issues. I've gone through many different stages of the game - so let me just tell you what this game is all about.

First of all, this is NOT your typical fantasy medieval MMORPG - this is a modern-day MMORPG. You start off creating a hero or a villain. The character creation process is limited - while you can look pretty much any way you want to, your powers have to be what they already programmed in the game. This was a big let-down to me because when I first started I was feeble and thought I could make my own powers or something, and that I could be Bubblegum Boy with super Bubblegum powers. Big disappointment that was. If you think you are going to get the exact powers you want think again. The system is very limited as to what kind of powers you can have. You cannot be Spiderman or anything real creative or original.

There are five archtypes. I'll run down my preferred side, the heroes. There are tanks, scrappers, blasters, controllers, and defenders. And this is where it copies every other MMORPG because once you choose your powers that's it. You can't go back and alter them really. The best you got is respecs and that won't even allow you to re-choose your main and secondary powers let alone your archtypes. For every archtype there are a number set of primary and secondary powers - if you are planning on being a tank or scrapper you better wait until I12 because they really got fucked in this game. There are only a few different sets of powers and most of them copy the other - such as the only real difference is that tanks primary is defense while scrappers primary is offense. Blasters, controllers, and defenders have a much wider selection of primary and secondary powers. Blasters are the ranged offensive masters, controllers  control but don't do any real damage until high in level, and defenders are buffers with limited ranged offensive abilities.

There are essentially three things to do in the game. And one of them was just introduced. The obvious is combat. City of Heroes has by far the best PvE content a MMORPG could have, by far. Far better than WoW. The PvP to me is still lacking somewhat. It all feels very limited. Just to duel a hero you have to go all the way to an arena whereas in other MMORPGs you can just click duel and fight anywhere you wanted to. Fighting against villains seems kind of useless and doesn't really help anything - if you can even find a villain. The number of heroes greatly outwieghs the number of villains, I think mainly because they released CoV too late (should have both been launched at the same time). What you usually do is try to get a group of superheroes around the same level to fight with you side-by-side in some of the missions you guys have. If you have a good balanced team you can set mission difficultly level higher so you gain more experience per kill while still completing the mission at the same time.

The second thing is tailoring. And this costs influence, and a lot of it, if you don't have free tailor sessions. Fortunately for being a veteran I had a ton of them. I could spend hours just making a new costume, and no, I'm not gay. I just find their tailoring process to be fascinating and very complete. It's up there in the Star Wars Galaxies range of customization in this regard. At level 20 you get capes and at level 30 you get a glowie-thingy. But you are going to spend a very small fraction of your time in the game making new costumes.

The third thing you can do in the game is trade in the auction house. This is you have an abundance of something such has influence or enhancements. You get influence everytime you kill an enemy worthy of your stature while enhancements and such things like invention salvage are randomly picked up. If you play in no time will you pick up rare sets because truth be told they aren't that rare, but getting the one you really want might be. All your powers have enhancements you can make your powers do more damage, be more accurate, etc. and invention salvage allows you to make invention enhancements which can give the player bonus enhancements such as improved health bar recovery rate by a percentage or such. Regular salvage is used in super groups bases.

And that leads me to super groups. I never liked 'em, and I usually wasn't part of one. Everytime I joined one, it would be 150 members composed of five active superheroes. Of course, this might not happen to you, but more likely than not you are going to be disappointed if you are looking for a tight-laced super group. Then they annoy you to be in supergroup mode so they collect prestage while you lose influence among the way.

It seems like everything revolves around doing missions. And they are basically the same thing everytime. Defeat enemies in a certain building or sewers and get out. Sometimes you have to disarm bombs or save hostages, but it's really just a distraction from repetitive gameplay. Did I mention repetitive gameplay? The only way I got my blaster through to level 50 is because to me, blasting is so addicting. There will be a few missions that will tell you to go from one place to another - and these missions are the most boring of them all. There are task forces which give you badges - but badges are really only for show for the ones who care.

Power pool sets stops one fire blaster to be the same as the other fire blaster - they are abilities that pretty much any hero can pick up. This includes transportation powers such as flying, super jump, super speed, and teleportation. All the other abilities are pretty archtyped defined already - such as if you are a defender, you are going to want to get leadership probably, where as blasters get invisibility, because they actually made the archtypes different to the point whereas leadership abilities will be better for a defender directly than for a blaster.

When you get to the higher levels, there will be more types of enemies to face - but these will only replace the old ones in the starter areas. Some enemies will constantly be there no matter what level you are, like the Aranchnos. Bastards. Generally enemies have more unique powers as you gain higher in levels. By the 40's you'll realize how slow the progression is in levelling. It will take forever just try get the next bar up especially if you have exp debt. Yes, that's right, exp debt. At level 10 and after, whenever you die you collect experience debt which happers your progress in half for a certain amount of time. And the higher level you are, the larger the power will be filled with experience debt.

In your 40's you'll get epic power poolsets which allows a superhero to have some of the best abilities from another archtype (recycling content, maybe???). There are only four to choose from and each one has only four abilities each, and you can only choose from one epic power poolset. Blasters will get control and defense, controllers will get offensive ranged powers, etc. It's basically allowing you to even-out your character with abilities that your superhero is probably lacking even now. So I guess that was a smart move there.

When you hit level 50 you get two epic archtypes - peacebringer and warshade. You don't get anything with villains, sorry to say. Peacebringer and warshade offer unique perspectives to the game with altered states and starting off with a transportation ability, but it's nothing new really. Both are just a mix of blaster (warshade) and defender (peacebringer) with a few extra powers thrown in the way. They really aren't that special and, especially warshades, are extremely unbalanced fighters.

Of course, you don't have to power level your way to level 50. You could do what they like to call, "bridging" where you sk a low level in a Peregine Island mission when you are in your 40's and bug the mission so both you and the person you and sidekicking are recieving experience and influence. It makes the process much faster, but also makes it much more boring because you are not able to fight at all or the person you sidekick will not recieve anything.

Issue 11 has introducted invasions of aliens - or Rikti in the game. I haven't gone a zone that is invaded but I can tell you most people think that the red bulletin urgency is annoying and they probably don't even really care about it. They also added a handful of new missions and a new group both heroes and villains can take part of (Vanguard) to fight off the Rikti. But guess what? In the end all it really is, is click ability, watch ability, wait for ability to cooldown.  And that's the game's downfall. When are you going to say, "enough is enough already"? There are only so many times you can do the same thing over and over again before you get sick to your stomach trying to do it again. The abilities you have in the game in the beginning stick around with you until the end and you probably use them the most because they have a fast cooldown timer - so you are basically stuck with a few powers until your good ones recharge up again. And sometimes this takes forever, even with enhancements. My inferno attack takes minutes to recharge and I have recharge modifiers on it.

In a way this is the direct opposite of WoW. In WoW you can only have ONE simple name. In CoH you can have any kind of name you want such as it's not taken (same with WoW - as long as it's not taken). The character creation process is the opposite of WoW's - it's fantastic. But when you play the game - WoW you get new abilities right away and have to upgrade them soon enough while in CoH you don't get any good abilities until the the mid-late 20's. In WoW you got many different paths you can take when it comes to non-combat roles, such as crafting and fishing, whereas in CoH you are stuck with just creating with the schematics you can get and afford. The PvP in both games do suck and seem very un-necessary, such as something just to try to applease the PvP crowd. Well, in WoW at least there are PvP servers which can be a blast to be into. Every server in CoH is exactly the same game.

City of Heroes is not going to leave us anytime soon. From the likes of the last publishes NCSoft still have fresh, original ideas to make City of Heroes a much more innovative game than it has been, but in the end it all comes down to combat. You cannot tailor without being in combat. You cannot go to an aunction and get anything unless you combat. And in future updates you will not be able to do anything else without doing combat first. That is the focus of the game - PvE combat. And it does a great job at it. So if you just like PvE combat, then I would tell you to buy this game in a heartbeat, but if you are looking a game that will truly leave you satisified, you've come to the wrong place. Due to the nature of the game itself, City of Heroes will never be anything like Saga of Ryzom or pre-CU Star Wars Galaxies. Everything is extremely linear in motion and there is no real player content outside of useless pretty superhero bases. This is what has leaved me unsatisified and that is why I am leaving CoH and never coming back. While it does give you the freedom to fly around the city, it does not give you the freedom to enter any building. While it does give you the freedom to complete a mission anytime you want to, it does not give you the freedom to make your own missions. While it does give you the freedom to defend the city, it does not give you the freedom to make the city - and that's half the fun itself. Why do you really care about a city that you really don't even feel apart of? Yeah, sure, they can give you quests that tell you to read a part of the cities' past, but what does that have to do with you? Nothing. That's what.

~Goodbye, Melting Point (level 50, blaster cold/fire/ice) of the Liberty Server. I'll miss you, but it's time to move on.

P.S.: I hope this has helped you decide whether you like City of Heroes or not. I haven't gone to every aspect of the game because I haven't tried EVERYTHING, but I did the best I could. Thanks for reading!

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Comments

  • Jtrav1987Jtrav1987 Member Posts: 79

    Ok, I respect your review.  You've obviously played the game before, and have seen what it has to offer.  Just a couple of qualms here.

    First off, you stated that you thought you could literally "make your own powers", and gave the Bubblegum Boy example.  Obviously you cannot do this in CoH, but please name a MMO in which you make your own powers or abilities.  Don't think there is one.  Essentially in every MMO you pick powers, no matter how many there are, you're still picking.

     

    Second, you seemed sorta dissapointed that you couldn't repick your power sets or main ablities.  First off all, this is a HUGE flaw in NGE Star Wars Galaxies.  So one minute you're a lvl 38 Bounty Hunter, and for paying credits you suddenly realize you're a Jedi or Medic?  Ugh.  Don't think so.  And From a "realism" standpoint (LOL @ talking about realism with superheroes), I've never heard of a hero who could repick his/her powers.  Sure there a people like Morph or Rogue who can copy other heroes and steal their powers, but I don't recall Spider Man saying "Man, Wolverine has some cool claws, I think I will go get some of those."  If this is the way it was, don't you think people like Jubilee (haha) would have picked something else? Just caught my attention is all.

     

    I will agree with you that City of Heroes has some of the best PVE action you will ever see.  Group dynamics and instances in this game are it's bread and butter.

     

    I also notice you compare CoH and WoW alot.  Getting on the topic where you stated the CoH is only instances and missions...WoW is also.  And most other games I've played, aside from EQ.  WoW is almost ALWAYS kill this many things, get its hooves or beaks or sashes or whatever, then return. And as for instances...Wailing Caverns, Black Fathom Deeps, Dead Mines, Scarlet Monastary, Shadow Fang Keep, the list goes on and on.  Its become a staple of the MMO industry to have quest and player's own individual spaces so they don't complain about camping or kill stealing (though on a realism point instances are total garbage, how did people ever survive in EQ without Lost Dungeons of Norrath ?????).

     

    Once again I respect your review on this game, and am by no means flaming you. These were just points I thought of as I read your review.

     

    Cheers.

  • DrowNobleDrowNoble Member Posts: 1,296

    Instancing is probably going to be the norm from now on.  In early days, such as EQ1, non-instancing led to camping, kill-stealing and other such headaches.  WoW uses it, CoH uses it, DAoC uses it, the list goes on.

    Now I will say the way CoH uses it is far superior to WoW.  Shadowfang Keep is exactly the same everytime you run it.  Same number of mobs and same level of mobs.  In CoH you can adjust the difficulty depending on your team size, archtype and/or playstyle.  So the casual types can keep it lower-risk & easier for themselves and hardcore types can ramp up the difficulty and get the higher xp/inf rewards.  WoW is doing something like this in TBC with heroic dungeons, but it only benefits level 70's.

    As far as "making your own powers" I agree it would be silly lore-wise to have spiderman suddenly stop shooting webs and grow claws.  There are various ways to respec your powers, through vet rewards and taskforces.  With Issue 9 they added enhancements with set bonuses, some with power effects (stealth, +psi dmg, etc).  WoW is no different in that you are still picking from a list.  A holy pally is pretty much the same as every other holy pally out there.

    My 2 inf worth.  

  • vajurasvajuras Member Posts: 2,860

    I enjoyed reading the review

    notice in his review he compares the leveling system in CoX to SWG Pre-CU (old school SWG pre-bastardization) / Saga of Ryzom. If you've played those then you'd realize those were SKILL BASED systems (akin to EVE, UO). In those games you really do acquire the powers you want and build the type of avatar (aka hero in CoX terms) you want.

     

     so its just dumb to compare tWoW or SWG NGE which are both lame Class based systems to a really good freeform character system like EVE / UO/ Saga of Ryzom

    his analysis was correct but unfortunately the mainstream nextgen readers wont understand the review. because most have never been exposed to a Skill based system before

     So let's break this down:

    WoW = CoX = nextgen SWG = all lame Class based character progression that forces you into cookie cutter roles

    EVE = UO = Saga of Ryzom = SWG (pre-CU) = freeform character development where u really build the toon you really want to be.

  • Jtrav1987Jtrav1987 Member Posts: 79

    Your breakdown is fine, save for the fact that you think they are all three traditional cookie cutter.  I will agree that SWG is cookie cutter, they have an expertise system, but all the bounty hunters and commandos are the exact same toon with a different name and armor.  WoW is kind of the same way, its only defense are the 3 branches of each class, though in my opinion this is limited also.  Once again yes I am defending my CoH :), but I think it is one of the more diverse games that I have played as far as picking your abilities and such go.  You don't have to take certain powers at certain levels, can choose your elements, pick any of the travel powers regardless of archetype, and can make each ability what you want it to be best used for (IE I focus on damage and accuracy with most of my blaster powers, though someone could take damage and endurance reduction, or range, or recharge rate, or any combination of any of the enhancement sets).

     

    Thankee

  • vajurasvajuras Member Posts: 2,860

    ya but I couldnt count the many times I've seen other EM/ELA brutes with my same, exact build. good game and absolutely brilliant in some places I cant lie but in other places....

     

    what should happen if i try to examine another hero's powers we should differ vastly.

    i never saw anyone that used my costumes I had a full wardrobe for all my toons. never saw the same outfit. The powers should be the SAME.

    in EVE try asking someone about their build lol they cant even begin to explain their build. we have way too many powers. some have over a hundred. I'm still new im already almost hitting 70 skills total.

    If CoX was like that i'd still be playing yo. but hey I did play almost a year and this review this guy played for years so ya its gotta be good

    Awesome game, brilliant but in other places....  oh well no game is perfect right?

  • vajurasvajuras Member Posts: 2,860

    on topic what confused me though he said he thought the PVE was the bomb but then sort of contradicted himself a bit in the review. maybe I'm not a good reader

     

    I would like to read what parts of the PVE he really liked in more detail

  • PezDSpencerPezDSpencer Member UncommonPosts: 111

    I think the OP's problem is simple:  he chose to be a blaster.     >:D

     

    But seriously now.  You make some good points.  PvP is horrible, won't lie.  The unbalanced classes (between CoH and CoV) makes it nigh unplayable.  And the Arena failed miserably.

     

    But how can you say that the powers are bad?  The transportation pools were a blast (SJ was my favorite, even though TP is faster...).  My 'Troller (Illusion/Kin) was amazingly fun.

     

    I think the reason you didn't like the powers was because they, for the most part, forced you to party with others.  Other games you mentioned (EVE, SWG) don't require as much teamwork.

    ---
    He said to me, "On your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that going for me, which is nice.

  • vajurasvajuras Member Posts: 2,860

    in EVE my friend you have hundreds of ships in the Fleet battles. Many are needed for a successful push into the enemy base.

     

    everyone knows superior numbers can make a huge difference in PVP. In EVE war requires huge numbers to be successful

     

    also try jumping a vet in a newbie frigates wont happen. but 6-7 Frigates? ah, now we're talking

     edit- so yes teamwork is critical in EVE. now PVE (AGent missions) I dunno I think you can solo the content but really EVE is mostly a PVP game just like how CoX is a PVE game

    to be a success you will need ships, ammo, and weapons. so once you move to 0.0 it gets rough all equipment u buy is player made and you live in player made stations. The player dependency in EVE is really huge.You need miners, guards for the miners, traders, researchers, salvagers, ratters (cleanup NPC pirates), haulers/couriers, business tycoons (yeah its a skill lol im not making this up), and seriously just all sorts of roles fulfilled to make the Player Run Corporations run smoothly. Now PVE (AGent Missions)- um yeah I think u can solo those EVE is really for PVP with a dash of PVE to keep us PVE/PVP types content

  • xaldraxiusxaldraxius Member Posts: 1,249

    I have played CoH on and off since beta, and I both love and hate the game.  PvP is a joke, which is too bad because I have never seen a game with as much individuality; Character and costume Size, color, pattern...yet runs incredibaly smooth. Lag? Hardly ever. But solo play? Forget it. You have to team in this game to get anywhere, and when you're playing in the morning while all of the younger players are in school there's no finding a team. After an hour or two of individually asking everyone near my level if they want to team, (Mind you most of the people in this game are very polite and usualy are friendly when they decline) I just give up and log off. There are very few bugs, and the game is very well put together, but pretty much all you fight are 'people'. Even the Aliens are pretty much humanoid, and that gets pretty dull. They game play is so dull that a lot of the time people just gather in the newbie zone to have costume contests, not that I mind, I've made bundles of inf/money off of my costumes  ;)   but before inventions there was really nothing to do with it except design another costume. Now they have the Rikti invasion, and from my point of veiw all that has done is disrupt these costume contests by flooding the zone with enemies at intermitant times. I really have enjoyed the game, and it's visually the best MMO I have played, but it's too small, there's no sense of adventure, and no real sense of purpose. I agree that it feels very constrained as to your choice of powers; by the time you are level 50 you have all but a couple of your main powers, and the only real distinction between you and the other Broadsword/Regen scrappers, or whatever, is your costume. It's too bad that all the new MMO's seem to want to cling to the class based system, skill based is more realistic, and more fun. A fun game should require some time and skill to master, not just patience and grinding.

     

    Archangel Azrael: Level 50 Broadsword/Regeneration Scrapper, Virtue Server

  • PezDSpencerPezDSpencer Member UncommonPosts: 111

    See, but just because you need an ass load of people, doesn't mean there's teamwork involved.  Yeah, a couple dozen ships work towards the same goal.  Does that mean they have set roles?  No, they're ships.  They can be identical to each other.

     

    Apparently your definition of "teamwork" varies from mine.

    ---
    He said to me, "On your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that going for me, which is nice.

  • Sanctus_MorsSanctus_Mors Member Posts: 597

    Tankers have 4 Primary and 7 Secondary Power sets. That means there are a total of 28 different kinds of tanks out there.

    Blasters have 7 Primary and 5 Secondary Power sets. 35 different blasters

    Controllers have 6 Primary and 7 Secondary Power sets. 42 combinations of controllers

    Defenders have 8 Primary and 7 Secondary Power sets. 56 combinations

    Scrappers 6 Primary and 4 Secondary. 24 combinations.

    So, shown here, yes the tankers and scrappers have less combinations but not as few as it is lead to belive in this post. 24 different types of scrappers is a nice selection. Would I like to see more powersets? You bet. But I'm not disappointed with the amount that I have available to me now.

    your arguement is so persuasive, so filled with knowledge and insight. You back up your argument very articulately, with suggestions of improvements and raising examples to glorify your position....oh wait, you didn't

  • Jtrav1987Jtrav1987 Member Posts: 79

    Ah.  Everyone's infatuation with PVP boggles me.  Granted, it is fun to kill other players knowing they are far off somewhere slamming their mouse or simply smiling at the fact they had been bested, but I still think the basis of the most successful MMOs on the market has been PVE.  Everquest case in point.  Sure there were PVP servers, but on a non PVP everyone got along fine, still had great gear, and still had other ways to be proud of their toon.  And even WoW with all its arena and BG glory, its almost a seperate part of the game.  The people that truly stick with it are the people that raid high end consistently and try bettering themselves with the ever elusive armors and weapons.  I just think PVP brings too much bickering, no matter what game it is.  There are tons of post on the WoW forums saying "nerf this class", or "this class is broken in PVP".  Its gets old.  People complain about unbalanced class and such.  IMO, true balance is this.  Every class has their situation in which they will be the victor.  Whether it be the a stealth type class killing the magic oriented toons while there were getting mana back, a ranged class seeing a victim off in the distacne and killing them before they have a chance to get close, or the unlucky lower hp class running near one of the heavy close combat melee characters, every class has scenarios in which they can be successful.  Plain and simple. 

  • vajurasvajuras Member Posts: 2,860

    Originally posted by PezDSpencer


    See, but just because you need an ass load of people, doesn't mean there's teamwork involved.  Yeah, a couple dozen ships work towards the same goal.  Does that mean they have set roles?  No, they're ships.  They can be identical to each other.
     
    Apparently your definition of "teamwork" varies from mine.
    you tried to say Skill Based progression games do not have teamwork I merely provided one example. We can also look at Ultima Online, Saga of Ryzom, and other skill based games. so ya saying those games dont need teamwork is pretty silly we'd have many examples to draw upon. Too me, requireing hundreds of players to make a player run corporation run smoothly is a lot more meaningful then beating up the retarded AI in the CoX instances. they gonna respawn for the next team and they'll do it too. you're not making an impact at all lol. It's all fake and will be erased once you leave the "instance". no impact
  • vajurasvajuras Member Posts: 2,860

    Originally posted by Sanctus_Mors


    Tankers have 4 Primary and 7 Secondary Power sets. That means there are a total of 28 different kinds of tanks out there.
    Blasters have 7 Primary and 5 Secondary Power sets. 35 different blasters

    Controllers have 6 Primary and 7 Secondary Power sets. 42 combinations of controllers

    Defenders have 8 Primary and 7 Secondary Power sets. 56 combinations

    Scrappers 6 Primary and 4 Secondary. 24 combinations.
    So, shown here, yes the tankers and scrappers have less combinations but not as few as it is lead to belive in this post. 24 different types of scrappers is a nice selection. Would I like to see more powersets? You bet. But I'm not disappointed with the amount that I have available to me now.

    what is the lifespan of you guys toons? How long you stick with that combination? I know once I hiot 50 I'd have to reroll to experiment.

    sure an EM/ELA brute can respec and make minor changes. But respecs are limited. And if you want to switch to EM/Fire you have to start all over.

     

    endless combinations my ass. you gotta reroll if you want to try new things. thatts *MONTHS* of hard work down the drain

    In EVE, UO, SoR you stick with your toon. People played their same toon for years

  • Sanctus_MorsSanctus_Mors Member Posts: 597

    lifespan, hmm usually by level 10 I determine if I'll stick with the toon. If during that time I get an idea for a costume for same powers, I'll just hit the tailor.  I only play on Infinity but I've got 6 Heroes and 6 Villains. Level ranges from 14-50.

    I've been going back to my 50 lately to make him more viable in PvP. That means going out, doing level 50 mish for IO and salvage. Got him decked out about 60% IO and working on a few IO sets. I'll usually run invunerable level with some other SG mates at level 50 while sk lower level people who want to join.

    I agree that the limited respec make it harder to tweek your char. My main 50 I play is out of respec  and now I'm wishing I had added an aoe to compliment the stuns he dishes out. Wish they did something like WoW where you can pay for more respec or re run those respec mish to get another one.

    I've never commented on "Endless combinations" I did list the amount of combo's for each hero class. There is a finite amount.

    Edit: The nature of Eve does not encourage alts. When your training skills up, you can't train another skill on another character.

    When I played Saga of Ryzom, I did have a few alts that I played with, not sticking with just one char. Never played UO but all MMO's I've played, I've always had a large amounts of alts to address any play style I felt at the time

    your arguement is so persuasive, so filled with knowledge and insight. You back up your argument very articulately, with suggestions of improvements and raising examples to glorify your position....oh wait, you didn't

  • Jtrav1987Jtrav1987 Member Posts: 79

    I saw above that someone said in CoH you make no impact on the world and once you leave the instance they will respawn for the next team.  DUH.  Haha, its this way in all games.  You cannot make a permanent world change in any MMO.  You may be able to take a territory and make it look a little different, or something along those lines.  But any mob you kill will ALWAYS respawn, no matter how long the timer be, even if its a yearly one.

  • vajurasvajuras Member Posts: 2,860

     

    Originally posted by Jtrav1987


    I saw above that someone said in CoH you make no impact on the world and once you leave the instance they will respawn for the next team.  DUH.  Haha, its this way in all games.  You cannot make a permanent world change in any MMO.  You may be able to take a territory and make it look a little different, or something along those lines.  But any mob you kill will ALWAYS respawn, no matter how long the timer be, even if its a yearly one.



    Then you have not played many games. I've played MMOs where I kill a mob and it remains dead for all eternity. I admit this feature usually pops up a lot more in games whereas players run the universe like EVE, etc. For instance in EVE there might a corp thats running everything. you all gang up and kill their Titan. That Titan is *gone*. never coming back. The gravesite marks space for eternity. Impact

     

     

    Not all games are like CoX. Noit saying EVE is perfect. CoX might do this and that better sure.

     

    edit- crap sry for the rub that was anal of me. I can only name on like 1 hand that players can impact its so rare it was silly rebuttable im just a burned out troll 

  • vajurasvajuras Member Posts: 2,860

    Originally posted by Sanctus_Mors


    lifespan, hmm usually by level 10 I determine if I'll stick with the toon. If during that time I get an idea for a costume for same powers, I'll just hit the tailor.  I only play on Infinity but I've got 6 Heroes and 6 Villains. Level ranges from 14-50.
    I've been going back to my 50 lately to make him more viable in PvP. That means going out, doing level 50 mish for IO and salvage. Got him decked out about 60% IO and working on a few IO sets. I'll usually run invunerable level with some other SG mates at level 50 while sk lower level people who want to join.
    I agree that the limited respec make it harder to tweek your char. My main 50 I play is out of respec  and now I'm wishing I had added an aoe to compliment the stuns he dishes out. Wish they did something like WoW where you can pay for more respec or re run those respec mish to get another one.
    I've never commented on "Endless combinations" I did list the amount of combo's for each hero class. There is a finite amount.
    Edit: The nature of Eve does not encourage alts. When your training skills up, you can't train another skill on another character.

    When I played Saga of Ryzom, I did have a few alts that I played with, not sticking with just one char. Never played UO but all MMO's I've played, I've always had a large amounts of alts to address any play style I felt at the time

    good post yes I agree you can of course make alts if you want in a title like EVE but you're not forced too

    Going from EM/ELA -> EM/Fire CoX forces me to reroll.

    Going from Repairer (mechanic) -> Miner in EVE I dont have to rerole. I can tweak indefintely making it viable to stick with one toon for a *long* time

     

    but I will say this- CoX is no worse then most games oput there infact I'm saying its one of the best. I like it. I might even come back one day. EVE does this and that better. CoX does this and that better

    It's just personal taste I still highly recommend ppl try it. I'm just a bitter ole PVP'er 

  • DrowNobleDrowNoble Member Posts: 1,296

    Although CoX is technically a class-based game it is very differernt from other class games.  Simply put a holy pally in WoW is pretty much the same as every other holy pally out there.  However an ice/ice blaster will not be the same as another ice/ice blaster because of slotting, enhancements used, power pools and epic power pools.   In addition, rarely does someone pick every single power in their primary or secondary, usually they are drawing upon other pools to round out their character to their particular playstyle.  So one ice blaster may have gone for more nukes while another picked some of the high damage melee attacks instead.

    Also the way the archtypes are designed, they never really need to add more "classes" as they only have to design a powerset.  Example is how they added Thugs as a Mastermind primary.

    As far as affecting the world few games really do that in the first place.  In a small way, the pvp zone missions do that with their zone-wide buff/debuffs.  So if the villains have a +DMG bonus in Warburg, they will forever have that til heroes start doing missions to reverse that.  I know, that is a minor thing compared to EVE's blowing up a Titan.  I always liked DAoC relics, you steal an enemy realms' relic and you just gave everyone of  your realm a perma buff no matter where they are.

    Oh and I know the pvp isn't perfect.  At least I find it fun regardless of all the imperfections.   

  • Jtrav1987Jtrav1987 Member Posts: 79
    Originally posted by vajuras


     
    Originally posted by Jtrav1987


    I saw above that someone said in CoH you make no impact on the world and once you leave the instance they will respawn for the next team.  DUH.  Haha, its this way in all games.  You cannot make a permanent world change in any MMO.  You may be able to take a territory and make it look a little different, or something along those lines.  But any mob you kill will ALWAYS respawn, no matter how long the timer be, even if its a yearly one.
    Then you have not played many games. I've played MMOs where I kill a mob and it remains dead for all eternity. I admit this feature usually pops up a lot more in games whereas players run the universe like EVE, etc. For instance in EVE there might a corp thats running everything. you all gang up and kill their Titan. That Titan is *gone*. never coming back. The gravesite marks space for eternity. Impact

     

     

    Not all games are like CoX. Noit saying EVE is perfect. CoX might do this and that better sure.

    You're right I haven't played many games.  Only City of Heroes, Everquest, Everquest II, Final Fantasy XI, Guild Wars, Lineage II, Lord of the Rings Online, Star Wars Galaxies, 2Moons, MU, and Wow.  And NONE of these games have this feature where the mob never respawns.  Obviously this is true for EVE Online.  But the group who's Titan is destroyed, can they not build another one?  And can you think of any other games in which this sort of thing takes place?  I just want to know, I haven't ran into any.

  • vajurasvajuras Member Posts: 2,860

    Originally posted by Jtrav1987

    Originally posted by vajuras


     
    Originally posted by Jtrav1987


    I saw above that someone said in CoH you make no impact on the world and once you leave the instance they will respawn for the next team.  DUH.  Haha, its this way in all games.  You cannot make a permanent world change in any MMO.  You may be able to take a territory and make it look a little different, or something along those lines.  But any mob you kill will ALWAYS respawn, no matter how long the timer be, even if its a yearly one.
    Then you have not played many games. I've played MMOs where I kill a mob and it remains dead for all eternity. I admit this feature usually pops up a lot more in games whereas players run the universe like EVE, etc. For instance in EVE there might a corp thats running everything. you all gang up and kill their Titan. That Titan is *gone*. never coming back. The gravesite marks space for eternity. Impact

     

     

    Not all games are like CoX. Noit saying EVE is perfect. CoX might do this and that better sure.

    You're right I haven't played many games.  Only City of Heroes, Everquest, Everquest II, Final Fantasy XI, Guild Wars, Lineage II, Lord of the Rings Online, Star Wars Galaxies, 2Moons, MU, and Wow.  And NONE of these games have this feature where the mob never respawns.  Obviously this is true for EVE Online.  But the group who's Titan is destroyed, can they not build another one?  And can you think of any other games in which this sort of thing takes place?  I just want to know, I haven't ran into any.

    im sorry guy I just need to stfu just ignore my posts I dont wanna discourage newbies from this game

     

    To anwser your query u have a right to be suspicious. but it is true in EVE a Titan takes many many many man months. I mean its a brutal, horridous grind. just huge effort for hundreds of people and years of training lol im not lying

    so only like 4 existed last time i checked. one of them got blown up and the owner quit

    you must understand losing a Titan is like permadeath. the ultimate hit to morale. It will hurt. It will hurt worst then anything. theres no rebuilding. you're just lost an incalculable fortune

     

    Starport also when u takeover a planet all the mbos cease to exist after u kill them. Minor, but impact

    its a nit. I shoulda just dropped it. just ignore me lol CoX is a great game I'm burned out on Classes/Levels its a 'general' problem

  • vajurasvajuras Member Posts: 2,860

    Originally posted by DrowNoble


    Although CoX is technically a class-based game it is very differernt from other class games.  Simply put a holy pally in WoW is pretty much the same as every other holy pally out there.  However an ice/ice blaster will not be the same as another ice/ice blaster because of slotting, enhancements used, power pools and epic power pools.   In addition, rarely does someone pick every single power in their primary or secondary, usually they are drawing upon other pools to round out their character to their particular playstyle.  So one ice blaster may have gone for more nukes while another picked some of the high damage melee attacks instead.
    Also the way the archtypes are designed, they never really need to add more "classes" as they only have to design a powerset.  Example is how they added Thugs as a Mastermind primary.
    As far as affecting the world few games really do that in the first place.  In a small way, the pvp zone missions do that with their zone-wide buff/debuffs.  So if the villains have a +DMG bonus in Warburg, they will forever have that til heroes start doing missions to reverse that.  I know, that is a minor thing compared to EVE's blowing up a Titan.  I always liked DAoC relics, you steal an enemy realms' relic and you just gave everyone of  your realm a perma buff no matter where they are.
    Oh and I know the pvp isn't perfect.  At least I find it fun regardless of all the imperfections.   

    see this guy knows how to counter my old worn out, tired arguments. good post I am happy you guys still have found happiness with this game I envy you guys.

     

  • damian7damian7 Member Posts: 4,449

    Originally posted by DrowNoble


    Instancing is probably going to be the norm from now on.  In early days, such as EQ1, non-instancing led to camping, kill-stealing and other such headaches.  WoW uses it, CoH uses it, DAoC uses it, the list goes on.
    Now I will say the way CoH uses it is far superior to WoW.  Shadowfang Keep is exactly the same everytime you run it.  Same number of mobs and same level of mobs.  In CoH you can adjust the difficulty depending on your team size, archtype and/or playstyle.  So the casual types can keep it lower-risk & easier for themselves and hardcore types can ramp up the difficulty and get the higher xp/inf rewards.  WoW is doing something like this in TBC with heroic dungeons, but it only benefits level 70's.
    As far as "making your own powers" I agree it would be silly lore-wise to have spiderman suddenly stop shooting webs and grow claws.  There are various ways to respec your powers, through vet rewards and taskforces.  With Issue 9 they added enhancements with set bonuses, some with power effects (stealth, +psi dmg, etc).  WoW is no different in that you are still picking from a list.  A holy pally is pretty much the same as every other holy pally out there.
    My 2 inf worth.  

    in pre-cu swg (and even pre-nge swg) you could unlearn whatever profession and learn new skills.  same with UO, unlearn whatever skills or portions of skills and learn new things.  any time you so desired.  no muss, no fuss.  both of those games got THAT right.

     

    um, in cox, adjusting the difficulty really just kinda means more badguys, i.e. higher % of bosses, lts, more minions.  doesn't mean they use different tactics.

     

    green lantern and sinestro made up their own powers every time they used a power.  cyborg, nighthawk, mr. fantastic, batman, there's quite a number of heroes and villains that would change and recreate themselves as they went along.   look at the superman of the 1930s and superman today. 

     

     

     

    could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?

  • DrowNobleDrowNoble Member Posts: 1,296

    Well actually if you increase the difficulty on a mission the mobs will use different tactics.  The AI of a minion is different from a Lt or Boss.  An example would be Vahz Lt's (mortificators) that will revive fallen cadavers.  So a rank 1 mish would be mostly minions, you go in blow em up easy.  Up the difficulty and now you have to deal with the Lt's or they will keep reviving the minions you put down.

    Also the difficulty affects if the Named Mob is an Elite Boss or Archvillain.  Now an AV is vastly harder to take down than a "mere" elite boss.

    There are some powers than from either design or balance limitations we'll never see.  Green Lantern type powers for one, after all he can create anything with his ring he can imagine.  Would a tad hard to code something like that I'm sure.  They did add two Arrow powersets for those wanting to be like Green Arrow, sonic powers for the Black Canary wannabes, etc. 

  • Originally posted by Jtrav1987


    Ok, I respect your review.  You've obviously played the game before, and have seen what it has to offer.  Just a couple of qualms here.
    First off, you stated that you thought you could literally "make your own powers", and gave the Bubblegum Boy example.  Obviously you cannot do this in CoH, but please name a MMO in which you make your own powers or abilities.  Don't think there is one.  Essentially in every MMO you pick powers, no matter how many there are, you're still picking.
     
    Second, you seemed sorta dissapointed that you couldn't repick your power sets or main ablities.  First off all, this is a HUGE flaw in NGE Star Wars Galaxies.  So one minute you're a lvl 38 Bounty Hunter, and for paying credits you suddenly realize you're a Jedi or Medic?  Ugh.  Don't think so.  And From a "realism" standpoint (LOL @ talking about realism with superheroes), I've never heard of a hero who could repick his/her powers.  Sure there a people like Morph or Rogue who can copy other heroes and steal their powers, but I don't recall Spider Man saying "Man, Wolverine has some cool claws, I think I will go get some of those."  If this is the way it was, don't you think people like Jubilee (haha) would have picked something else? Just caught my attention is all.
     
    I will agree with you that City of Heroes has some of the best PVE action you will ever see.  Group dynamics and instances in this game are it's bread and butter.
     
    I also notice you compare CoH and WoW alot.  Getting on the topic where you stated the CoH is only instances and missions...WoW is also.  And most other games I've played, aside from EQ.  WoW is almost ALWAYS kill this many things, get its hooves or beaks or sashes or whatever, then return. And as for instances...Wailing Caverns, Black Fathom Deeps, Dead Mines, Scarlet Monastary, Shadow Fang Keep, the list goes on and on.  Its become a staple of the MMO industry to have quest and player's own individual spaces so they don't complain about camping or kill stealing (though on a realism point instances are total garbage, how did people ever survive in EQ without Lost Dungeons of Norrath ?????).
     
    Once again I respect your review on this game, and am by no means flaming you. These were just points I thought of as I read your review.
     
    Cheers.

    In Saga of Ryzom you can make your own powers.

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