Perhaps you are correct, but I personally hope to find something I lot more interesting in a game than real-time combat movement. Personally, I've avoided combat most of my MMORPG days and I started with UO in 1997. The only combat I truly persue is PvP, because anytime a monster is involved it's just as you said, the same old fare. I did participate in PvE combat for quite some time, but it became quite dull and monotonous and kept finding myself returning to PvP. The notion of realtime combat movement does not interest me nearly as much as live content for craftsmen and tradesmen. You may be correct though, because as I said, I've avoided PvE combat as much as I can in games. Movement has always been, and always will be, a nuisance to me. Not that it is for everyone, but it is to me. ^^ If I could, I'd ask Wish to install a recall system, such as in UO. I dislike moving.
I personally hate point and click because then it doesn't make you feel like your controlling your movements to the second. If you're walking around and you point and click to the distance, if an enemy comes by you have to PnC quickly to somewhere else. Unlike with asdw where if something appears in your path you can just quickly hold down s and run backwards away from the problem. In my mind PnC is old news and no it's not a 2004 thing. The reason it's in Lineage2 is the fact that it was in Lineage1, it worked well for that game there so why not keep it the same way for future games? Then again Lineage1 was 2Dish and so PnC worked well in that.
I have been playing a bit of a tale in the desert using point and clik movement and after words I went for a quick game of city of heroes and I must say I prefer point and click a lot over normal wasd because it with auto navigation it makes it a lot easier to travel to places while typingwith hands tied up moving around the game world. I'm against hercules on tihis one I'm afraid
Having played lineage-2, I am totaly for a point-and-click movement system. Lineage-2 has a miserable level grind, an even worse money grind, (those who have played know what I'm talking about) and is plagued by immature gamers/griefers. One thing they DID get right though, was the GUI. There is no pathfinding feature, but great camera control more than compensates for it. With the right mouse butten held down, you can orbit your character with the camera, and this is accompanied with the abilty to zoom in and out with the mouse wheel. Having the freedom to look around easily, makes a world of difference. Anyway, getting to my point, point-and-click movement, if done right, is ridiculisly better than WSAD movment. If you ask me though, it's all about camera control... which has me a bit concerned... I hope the devs at Wish change the arrow-key-camera-control to a mouse driven system similar to Lineage2's.
They actually did have a mouse system to move the camera. It was holding down the left mouse button. Just a lot of people never knew that in beta 1. I agree. I couldnt stand moving the camera with the arrow keys. Was way too awkward. But the mouse camera swung quite easily once you "grabbed" the screen with your left mouse button and swung it around.
Point and click is great, if it is done right, u can play with one hand. Shadowbane, Lineage 2 and Risk Your Life all use it. its not bad. I do, however, prefer WSAD and R for autorun..with the option of steering with your mouse.
Originally posted by hercules I would not even bother with another beta in wish because i already play 2 pay to play and have beta in dragons empire which is a vastly superior game so a beta slot for me will be totally wasted anyhow for this game.
Sooo, how's that "vastly superior" DE doing these days?
Originally posted by hercules I would not even bother with another beta in wish because i already play 2 pay to play and have beta in dragons empire which is a vastly superior game so a beta slot for me will be totally wasted anyhow for this game.
Sooo, how's that "vastly superior" DE doing these days?
Because a good game gets cancelled does not make it a bad game.Sadly it got cancelled at a stage it was already been in test.
Many great games have been cancelled -mythica,UO2,UOX etc.
Originally posted by hercules Because a good game gets cancelled does not make it a bad game.Sadly it got cancelled at a stage it was already been in test. Many great games have been cancelled -mythica,UO2,UOX etc. Lets see if wish would make it live
They werent games, they were ideas. Games go to beta. Games invite lots of people to try them out. Games actually have something beyond an E3 demo. Games dont put out a monthly newsletter every three or four months saying that "beta invites are coming soon(tm)!!".for over a year.
HZ was a great idea. It's game never lived up to it's idea. UO2, UOX, Mythica were all great ideas, cept they never really got off the drawing board.
Wish still lives and breathes, and a hell of a lot more people got to try it even in it's stripped down 8 month ago version than all of those "ideas" put together, including your vastly superior DE.
And I noticed you used the past tense "would". You must be talking about that vastly superior DE. It is now officially in the past. Wish still has the potential for a present and a future.
So yes, let's see if Wish "will" make it to live. But at least they still have a chance. Cant really same the same thing for that vastly superior game....er i mean, idea, now can we?
The aboslutely beautiful irony is you speak of unoriginal and then say you're off to pre-order WoW. Yeah because WoW has really set the benchmark in originality. LOL
Your view is that it's horrible. It's unoriginal. It's boring. And the control system isnt to your tastes.
The last one i'll grant to personal preferrence. But everything you say indicates you really didnt base any of those views off of anything concrete.
"It was boring" - peole have asked if you tried the live story in beta, and no answer. Most likely that would be a no. So you are basing this opinion off of seeing a shell of a game, and not even participated in what they intended to be the entertaining part of the game is somewhat uninformed.
"It was unoriginal" - Live Content is the most original idea out there. The more you comment, the more it solidifies the notion that you did not participate in the live story in 1.0, and havnet even read anything since being out of beta 1.0. Nor does it look like you read anything prior to going into beta 1.....ove 8 months ago.
So your opinions are based on misinformation, partial truths, and mostly outdated information, yet somehow you can speak so definitively about the present?
You're right though, Wish isnt desinged for people who are going to like the amusement park treadmills of EQ2, WoW, and all the other clone games. It's for people who want to participate in dozens of story arcs going on simultaneous where they can have an effect on the world.
I could see where a fan of clones wouldn't like that. The emphasis isnt on treadmilling and trinkets. It's participating in live, consumable content, with stories and a purpose.
But hey, go enjoy that oh so "original" WoW game. lol
Still think its a boring junk of a game.But hopefully anyone with intrest in this game would get a chance to beta test it and see for themselves.Some may like it ,some like me may hate it.
Guess thats why we have what is called personal taste.
You were steadfast about the pathing being horrible, and asked for industry people testifying on its behalf. Someone provided that exact testmony from several sources, including Gamspy, of industry people refuting that statement with exact oppoiste of what you said.
You said it was unoriginal and someone showed you links of just one of the original ideas it has that no other game atm is even close to trying.
You said it was boring and were shown that you didnt even participate in the actual "game" part of beta so it would have been pretty difficult for you to form a knowledgable opinion.
I freely admit to being a fan of the game, but at this point, what does that make someone that would stand so staunchly behind such and uninformed and outdated opinion like it was applicable in the present?
You were steadfast about the pathing being horrible, and asked for industry people testifying on its behalf. Someone provided that exact testmony from several sources, including Gamspy, of industry people refuting that statement with exact oppoiste of what you said. You said it was unoriginal and someone showed you links of just one of the original ideas it has that no other game atm is even close to trying. You said it was boring and were shown that you didnt even participate in the actual "game" part of beta so it would have been pretty difficult for you to form a knowledgable opinion. I freely admit to being a fan of the game, but at this point, what does that make someone that would stand so staunchly behind such and uninformed and outdated opinion like it was applicable in the present? /yawn indeed
Good for you.I played it hated it simple as that .Maybe it will improve but with so many mmorpg out there it made a very bad first impression on me.
Happy you like it.Hope some others do too but i did not.So whats so hard to understand about me disliking the game?
My /yawn is simply because of the amount of ranting you are doing as if to convince me its a good game.
Originally posted by hercules My /yawn is simply because of the amount of ranting you are doing as if to convince me its a good game.
Last I looked this is a Wish board. You shared your information, I get to share mine. That's how it goes.
You get to keep saying how the pathing was horrible, how the game was boring, how the game was unoriginal over and over and over...and i get to keep pointing out how outdated and uniformed the information you have to form that opinion is, while drawing on industry people to help with those facts.
I can only assume you keep restating your opinions because i keep pointing out exactly how uniformed they are.
And if i went to the WoW boards and told them how much i hated their game of choice i wouldnt expect people to defend it? And if i KEPT going back there to just regurgitate the fact that i hated it, didnt expound on how i drew that conclusion, and almost everything i said was out of date or completely based off of misinformation i wouldnt expect them to keep pointing it out to me? Maybe you're yawning because you're actually in a dream world.
You hated it though. Honestly, good for you. You played it eight months ago, didnt see the live story, havent read anything since, havent been in 1.5 and you hated it. Kudos.
Now you dont have time for it. Too many other "great" games out there for you to waste your time. Odd that you would be wasting so much time coming to boards of a game you hate defending your position (actually not even defending it, just restating it) on a game you hate and care nothing about with being that short on time and all those other exciting things to do.
Point and click save a LOT of network bandwith. It also lets the server know your EXACT work location. Otherwise aftre you sit you tend to do a huge slide once the PC and the Server have time to sync up. THe server pulls a good old "you belong over there" and off you go.
To be honest I am not a big fan of PnC either. My experience comes from UO, which I am sorry to say, movement sucked.
I read an interview from one of the devs done by wishwarcry.com. IF the PnC in Wish works like he says it will, well that may actually be better then wasd. IF you run it third person with the camera facing forward (and not overhead like UO) then it would be less tedious to move. You want to move near the tree 500 yards down the road, or however far you set your clip plane. You click once, and you move there. Simple as that. No holding down W and turning A D. No holding down the left click on your mouse. You click it and forget it. Watch the scenery. This is all IF they can get the pathing to work like they say it should. I know one of the posters on this thread said he played the beta and that the pathing sucked. If you did actually play the beta, I believe that the pathing is one of the things they worked on right after they closed the last version of beta testing. This interview on warcry was very recent. Who knows it may still suck. It may also turn out to be the best movement system out there. Just have to wait and see.
I don't want the game driving for me. Hell controlling my character is half the fun. These games already take care of most of the details for us as it is. If you don't want to do anything you may as well be watching a movie.
I don't think the lag argument is a good enough reason to ditch WASD. Most of your computers would lag in a situation where tons of people are on the same server in the same zone whether or not the game used PNC wouldn't make allot of difference.
If you are too lazy to drive your own character or you want to play with one hand then you are either extremely lazy or you only have one hand.
"When You Earnestly Believe You Can Compensate For A Lack Of Skill By Doubling Your Efforts, There's No End To What You Can't Do."
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
Comments
I personally hate point and click because then it doesn't make you feel like your controlling your movements to the second. If you're walking around and you point and click to the distance, if an enemy comes by you have to PnC quickly to somewhere else. Unlike with asdw where if something appears in your path you can just quickly hold down s and run backwards away from the problem. In my mind PnC is old news and no it's not a 2004 thing. The reason it's in Lineage2 is the fact that it was in Lineage1, it worked well for that game there so why not keep it the same way for future games? Then again Lineage1 was 2Dish and so PnC worked well in that.
I have been playing a bit of a tale in the desert
using point and clik movement and after words I went for a quick game of city of heroes and I must say I prefer point and click a lot over normal wasd because it with auto navigation it makes it a lot easier to travel to places while typingwith hands tied up moving around the game world. I'm against hercules on tihis one I'm afraid
Having played lineage-2, I am totaly for a point-and-click movement system. Lineage-2 has a miserable level grind, an even worse money grind, (those who have played know what I'm talking about) and is plagued by immature gamers/griefers. One thing they DID get right though, was the GUI. There is no pathfinding feature, but great camera control more than compensates for it. With the right mouse butten held down, you can orbit your character with the camera, and this is accompanied with the abilty to zoom in and out with the mouse wheel. Having the freedom to look around easily, makes a world of difference. Anyway, getting to my point, point-and-click movement, if done right, is ridiculisly better than WSAD movment. If you ask me though, it's all about camera control... which has me a bit concerned... I hope the devs at Wish change the arrow-key-camera-control to a mouse driven system similar to Lineage2's.
They actually did have a mouse system to move the camera. It was holding down the left mouse button. Just a lot of people never knew that in beta 1. I agree. I couldnt stand moving the camera with the arrow keys. Was way too awkward. But the mouse camera swung quite easily once you "grabbed" the screen with your left mouse button and swung it around.
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Joined - July 2004
Wish will rule simple as.
I have been following nearly all the main contendors of the MMORPGS that are coming out and this seems like it will be best (my opinion of course)
Sooo, how's that "vastly superior" DE doing these days?
Sooo, how's that "vastly superior" DE doing these days?
Because a good game gets cancelled does not make it a bad game.Sadly it got cancelled at a stage it was already been in test.
Many great games have been cancelled -mythica,UO2,UOX etc.
Lets see if wish would make it live
They werent games, they were ideas. Games go to beta. Games invite lots of people to try them out. Games actually have something beyond an E3 demo. Games dont put out a monthly newsletter every three or four months saying that "beta invites are coming soon(tm)!!".for over a year.
HZ was a great idea. It's game never lived up to it's idea. UO2, UOX, Mythica were all great ideas, cept they never really got off the drawing board.
Wish still lives and breathes, and a hell of a lot more people got to try it even in it's stripped down 8 month ago version than all of those "ideas" put together, including your vastly superior DE.
And I noticed you used the past tense "would". You must be talking about that vastly superior DE. It is now officially in the past. Wish still has the potential for a present and a future.
So yes, let's see if Wish "will" make it to live. But at least they still have a chance. Cant really same the same thing for that vastly superior game....er i mean, idea, now can we?
DE was in closed beta .But a very small number- think it was 300.
Still good luck with wish.I think its a horrible game but thats my view.
You make it sound like as if i should cry because DE got cancelled.Honestly,with WoW,DnL and EQ2 around the corner i am not really bothered.
Plus there are quite a few mmorpg out there already better then Wish to keep my intrest.
DE was a superior game to wish.But then again so are many of the mmorpg inclusing many there are live now.
I just state my view of wish - a game with nothing original ,poor controls and boring.However,its for everyone to find out what they think of it.
Off to pre order WoW now i suppose lol.
The aboslutely beautiful irony is you speak of unoriginal and then say you're off to pre-order WoW. Yeah because WoW has really set the benchmark in originality. LOL
Your view is that it's horrible. It's unoriginal. It's boring. And the control system isnt to your tastes.
The last one i'll grant to personal preferrence. But everything you say indicates you really didnt base any of those views off of anything concrete.
"It was boring" - peole have asked if you tried the live story in beta, and no answer. Most likely that would be a no. So you are basing this opinion off of seeing a shell of a game, and not even participated in what they intended to be the entertaining part of the game is somewhat uninformed.
"It was unoriginal" - Live Content is the most original idea out there. The more you comment, the more it solidifies the notion that you did not participate in the live story in 1.0, and havnet even read anything since being out of beta 1.0. Nor does it look like you read anything prior to going into beta 1.....ove 8 months ago.
So your opinions are based on misinformation, partial truths, and mostly outdated information, yet somehow you can speak so definitively about the present?
You're right though, Wish isnt desinged for people who are going to like the amusement park treadmills of EQ2, WoW, and all the other clone games. It's for people who want to participate in dozens of story arcs going on simultaneous where they can have an effect on the world.
I could see where a fan of clones wouldn't like that. The emphasis isnt on treadmilling and trinkets. It's participating in live, consumable content, with stories and a purpose.
But hey, go enjoy that oh so "original" WoW game. lol
This and this = extremely original
Wish Vault
Wish Vault FAQ
Wish Vault Forums
/yawn.
Still think its a boring junk of a game.But hopefully anyone with intrest in this game would get a chance to beta test it and see for themselves.Some may like it ,some like me may hate it.
Guess thats why we have what is called personal taste.
You were steadfast about the pathing being horrible, and asked for industry people testifying on its behalf. Someone provided that exact testmony from several sources, including Gamspy, of industry people refuting that statement with exact oppoiste of what you said.
You said it was unoriginal and someone showed you links of just one of the original ideas it has that no other game atm is even close to trying.
You said it was boring and were shown that you didnt even participate in the actual "game" part of beta so it would have been pretty difficult for you to form a knowledgable opinion.
I freely admit to being a fan of the game, but at this point, what does that make someone that would stand so staunchly behind such and uninformed and outdated opinion like it was applicable in the present?
/yawn indeed
Good for you.I played it hated it simple as that .Maybe it will improve but with so many mmorpg out there it made a very bad first impression on me.
Happy you like it.Hope some others do too but i did not.So whats so hard to understand about me disliking the game?
My /yawn is simply because of the amount of ranting you are doing as if to convince me its a good game.
Last I looked this is a Wish board. You shared your information, I get to share mine. That's how it goes.
You get to keep saying how the pathing was horrible, how the game was boring, how the game was unoriginal over and over and over...and i get to keep pointing out how outdated and uniformed the information you have to form that opinion is, while drawing on industry people to help with those facts.
I can only assume you keep restating your opinions because i keep pointing out exactly how uniformed they are.
And if i went to the WoW boards and told them how much i hated their game of choice i wouldnt expect people to defend it? And if i KEPT going back there to just regurgitate the fact that i hated it, didnt expound on how i drew that conclusion, and almost everything i said was out of date or completely based off of misinformation i wouldnt expect them to keep pointing it out to me? Maybe you're yawning because you're actually in a dream world.
You hated it though. Honestly, good for you. You played it eight months ago, didnt see the live story, havent read anything since, havent been in 1.5 and you hated it. Kudos.
Now you dont have time for it. Too many other "great" games out there for you to waste your time. Odd that you would be wasting so much time coming to boards of a game you hate defending your position (actually not even defending it, just restating it) on a game you hate and care nothing about with being that short on time and all those other exciting things to do.
Point and click save a LOT of network bandwith. It also lets the server know your EXACT work location. Otherwise aftre you sit you tend to do a huge slide once the PC and the Server have time to sync up. THe server pulls a good old "you belong over there" and off you go.
Man I hate PnC, shadowbane is almost unplayable for me.
I rate MMORPGs in how immersive they are and PnC IMO makes a game feel a lot less immersive.
Bandwidth does not seem to be a concern of other MMORPG developers. Besides, in the future Bandwidth will become less of an issue.
Another prob with PnC is ppl like me who already spend too much time at work holding a mouse...
Both systems have advantages and disadvantages,
PnC doesn't give detailed control for close combat ( which depending on how combat is implemented, might not matter).
WASD results in sore fingers and hands after long hours of play.
Personally i'd prefer PnC most of the time ( if its implemented well ).
To be honest I am not a big fan of PnC either. My experience comes from UO, which I am sorry to say, movement sucked.
I read an interview from one of the devs done by wishwarcry.com. IF the PnC in Wish works like he says it will, well that may actually be better then wasd. IF you run it third person with the camera facing forward (and not overhead like UO) then it would be less tedious to move. You want to move near the tree 500 yards down the road, or however far you set your clip plane. You click once, and you move there. Simple as that. No holding down W and turning A D. No holding down the left click on your mouse. You click it and forget it. Watch the scenery. This is all IF they can get the pathing to work like they say it should. I know one of the posters on this thread said he played the beta and that the pathing sucked. If you did actually play the beta, I believe that the pathing is one of the things they worked on right after they closed the last version of beta testing. This interview on warcry was very recent. Who knows it may still suck. It may also turn out to be the best movement system out there. Just have to wait and see.
A tad too easy blaming wasd for lag, isn't it? ^^
<- hates PnC
In my opinion PNC sucks.
I don't want the game driving for me. Hell controlling my character is half the fun. These games already take care of most of the details for us as it is. If you don't want to do anything you may as well be watching a movie.
I don't think the lag argument is a good enough reason to ditch WASD. Most of your computers would lag in a situation where tons of people are on the same server in the same zone whether or not the game used PNC wouldn't make allot of difference.
If you are too lazy to drive your own character or you want to play with one hand then you are either extremely lazy or you only have one hand.
"When You Earnestly Believe You Can Compensate For A Lack Of Skill By Doubling Your Efforts, There's No End To What You Can't Do."
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.