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Steer clear of a sinking ship.

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  • HeartlandHeartland Member Posts: 103

    Originally posted by Celt0r
    Shiva sounds really REALLY good - but then, so did Castor. Dont let "upcoming" features ever make you keep playing.

    Castor WAS good.

    In fact I was about to hit the "Cancel" button at the time, but the Castor patch, while maybe not massive nor containing all the things it could have, made a huge difference for me. Suddenly the game was very enjoyable and polished, small annoying things having been put out of their misery. By contrast Shiva looks to be a great leap forward rather than relatively minor fixes, and I would be very surprised if the stuff detailed on the page isn't included. CCP has come a LONG way since the early days.

    As for the rest of your comments I think I'll pass on the arguing, we're obviously sitting on either side of the fence, ummm more like Berlin Wall.

    image

  • Celt0rCelt0r Member Posts: 67



    Originally posted by Heartland

    Originally posted by Celt0r
    Shiva sounds really REALLY good - but then, so did Castor. Dont let "upcoming" features ever make you keep playing.
    Castor WAS good.
    In fact I was about to hit the "Cancel" button at the time, but the Castor patch, while maybe not massive nor containing all the things it could have, made a huge difference for me. Suddenly the game was very enjoyable and polished, small annoying things having been put out of their misery. By contrast Shiva looks to be a great leap forward rather than relatively minor fixes, and I would be very surprised if the stuff detailed on the page isn't included. CCP has come a LONG way since the early days.
    As for the rest of your comments I think I'll pass on the arguing, we're obviously sitting on either side of the fence, ummm more like Berlin Wall.
    image



    I expected castor to deliver end game content(like player stations for colonising alliance space), it tweaked, fixed and polished, but it didnt deliver that much to keep me interested :/

  • conanownsconanowns Member Posts: 114
    DAm...you must be outa yer mind to buy so many copies of a crappy game. The great gaming god should smite you and yur poor game decision buying self!image

  • esvalleyesvalley Member Posts: 3

    Well, it is true that you left and decided to come back. Sorry to hear you couldn't get back on cause Biomass is back, Huff Tech is back and we are having more fun then ever! Why not ask a buddy in the game to sell you an account? I know I have several.

    I am surprised that it took so long for people to realize L2 sucked!

    Crice

  • natasnatas Member Posts: 135



    Originally posted by esvalley

    Well, it is true that you left and decided to come back. Sorry to hear you couldn't get back on cause Biomass is back, Huff Tech is back and we are having more fun then ever! Why not ask a buddy in the game to sell you an account? I know I have several.
    I am surprised that it took so long for people to realize L2 sucked!
    Crice




    Hey Crice i am going to buy another acct, Im just waiting for my cash to build up so i can get something decent.

    After reading the forums today i can tell there will be plenty of 13-14mill sp accounts for sale soon...hehimage

    mOo

    Mooooo™

  • DantesDantes Member Posts: 163

    "If you're given lemons, make lemonade"

    That is an underlying moto of mine and it has served me VERY well.  As long as the "core" of the game is good, I can deal with the minor flaws.

    I REALLY enjoy EVE and it is definately not "a sinking ship".


    Beta tester supreme

    Beta tester supreme

  • acrobuddyacrobuddy Member UncommonPosts: 66
    why would anyone call this a sinking ship? this game is awesome and always 2000+ players on, i saw in my week trial a maxout at about 9000-9500 people on... the game is awesome probably the best ive played... just sucks that i dont have the money to but an account...

    -Scott

  • esvalleyesvalley Member Posts: 3
    My point was there are alot of people in game that have several accounts. I can no longer afford the time to keep up with all the accounts. I have many members in my corp that don't need all the accounts they have and I would bet they would assist in getting you a worth while account to get you back in the game. EvE rocks. The politics in the game suck. We shall see. EvE is by no means a "sinking ship".
  • crockcrock Member Posts: 556

    similar to daoc

    everyone with 2 accounts at least

    1 ganker and 1 minner or missions runner

    and for new player is realy boring

    repetetive missions or minning is only way to get money

    pvp dunno...u need 4 or better 6 months at least to know how it works

     

     

  • rune911rune911 Member Posts: 7
    i personally think the game is just taking off. With this trial i estimate about 600 new users. Those new users will tell friends who will tell friends. I say soon the game will become huge. Great gameplay, amazing maps, and a cheater-free environment.

    im a noob...
    so what?
    we all were once.

    im a noob...
    so what?
    we all were once.

  • JustinA1JustinA1 Member Posts: 8

    You obviously screwed up pretty bad talking to the GMs. And the game is not going anywhere, its awesome and expanding rapidly.

  • RiftScornRiftScorn Member Posts: 20

    I'm Surprised to hear this about the banning, etc, etc mate.image  Especially when you have bought a good few licenses for the game.

    I have personally been playing EVE since general release, but had to leave for RL commitment, and started playing again 7-8 months ago.  WHen dealing with the GM's i have never actually had any problems with them to the extent of driving me to the point that i want to leave or bad mouth them in any way.

    I will admit that over the lst 3 weeks they have been ahving HW issues, and some of the latest patches have definatley not been popular among that masses, but that aside, i know tha they usually try and get the game balanced all-round.

    I still find it one of the best MMO's around, and it's the only one i consistently endup going back to. 

  • MinscMinsc Member UncommonPosts: 1,353

    I have played literally EVERY major MMORPG on the market except COH. For me EVE is by far the only one that has kept my attention for any long time period. Many have argued that the game lacks content but CCP's vision from day 1 was that the players ARE the content. Whether it be alliance wars or price wars EVE is primarily meant to be a game largely governed and run by the players and in large part this is true.

    Sure CCP has dropped the ball a few times but overall the game has pushed forward and is improving with time. Whether they release everything that they claim will be in Shiva on time or not, the improvements they are planning in my opinion will make EVE without question the best sci-fi mmo out there.

    And as far as the discussion on whether noob players can catch up to veterans in skill points over time I think it is largely unnecessary. A veteran has the advantage of variety and range of ships they can fly and in having combat experience. The new player has the advantage of specialization and the ability to learn from all the mistake the vets had to go through learning the game.

    As has been mentioned before, training a skill from level 1-4 takes the same time as learning level 4-5. So a newer player can become nearly as effective as a veteran player in a specific role in a short amount of time.

  • OtlanoOtlano Member Posts: 139

    I stopped listening to "they screwed me stories" like this because most of the time we find out its not the whole story. People get upset because they think they got shafted and knowing other people will not give the person any sympathy, that person will embellish the story a whole lot or outright lie. Not saying this person outright lied but I personally will take with a grain of salt and decide on my own personal experiences. Saying you have the e-mails will not validate anything since those are very easily modified.

  • Celt0rCelt0r Member Posts: 67



    Originally posted by Otlano

    I stopped listening to "they screwed me stories" like this because most of the time we find out its not the whole story. People get upset because they think they got shafted and knowing other people will not give the person any sympathy, that person will embellish the story a whole lot or outright lie. Not saying this person outright lied but I personally will take with a grain of salt and decide on my own personal experiences. Saying you have the e-mails will not validate anything since those are very easily modified.



    Of course, any data can be modified.


    It is the sheer amount I have, to modify it all would take weeks(literally) and still serve no purpose.

     

    Posts on eve-i, boards.ie, several other forums chronicling it as it happened, but if people dont want to believe that bad things can happen, they will make excuses not to believe regardless.

     

    I have gotten plenty of sympathy(even to people offering me secondary accounts for free, or giving me isk/items or even just moral support), I dont want or need sympathy, just to enlighten people that they can and will do these things if they so wish.

     

    The EULA is illegal but until someone with money challenges it, they will abuse it to suit themselves.

     

    btw, made 400mil isk with a new account since those 3 were banned, gotten full set of implants, two apoca's with full insurance as well as numerous meta items.

     

  • Cooki3Cooki3 Member Posts: 5

    EDIT: Argh, Typos, the enemy of quick fingers

    The EULA is illegal?

    I'm sorry, this is starting to confuse me, please explain why its illegal?


    "Curiously enough, the only thing that went through the mind of the bowl of petunias as it fell was "oh no... not again!" Many people have speculated that if we knew exactly why the bowl of petunias had thought that, we should know a lot more about the nature of the universe than we do now." - Douglas Adams

    www.cookieempire.co.uk

    By Gamers, For Gamers, Who love Cookies

     

    "Curiously enough, the only thing that went through the mind of the bowl of petunias as it fell was "oh no... not again!" Many people have speculated that if we knew exactly why the bowl of petunias had thought that, we should know a lot more about the nature of the universe than we do now." - Douglas Adams

    www.cookieempire.co.uk

    By Gamers, For Gamers, Who love Cookies

  • Celt0rCelt0r Member Posts: 67


    Originally posted by Cooki3
    EDIT: Argh, Typos, the enemy of quick fingers
    The EULA is illegal?
    I'm sorry, this is starting to confuse me, please explain why its illegal?"Curiously enough, the only thing that went through the mind of the bowl of petunias as it fell was "oh no... not again!" Many people have speculated that if we knew exactly why the bowl of petunias had thought that, we should know a lot more about the nature of the universe than we do now." - Douglas Adams
    www.cookieempire.co.uk
    By Gamers, For Gamers, Who love Cookies
     

    Many many parts.

    I'll highlight a few though.


    You are not permitted to transfer your account to another person. If you whish to discontinue your account please refer to section 6. of this EULA. You may transfer a character from your account to another account, either belonging to you or another person. This transfer option is available from the EVE Online Account Management web site https://secure.eve-online.com/login.asp and is subject to fees and the following limitations:
    You own the account, they own the characters.
    They cannot stipulate what you do with the account, only with the characters.



    If CCP terminates the EULA pursuant to this section, you will not receive a refund of prepaid subscription fees.
    You are paying fees to access eve, if they terminate your account they are legally obliged to refund all pre-paid fees for after you are banned.


    CCP reserves the right to terminate any and all other Accounts that share the name, phone number, e-mail address, internet protocol address or credit card number with the closed Account. Termination by CCP under this section shall be without prejudice to or waiver of any and all of CCP's other rights or remedies, all of which are expressly reserved, survive termination, and are cumulative. You will not receive a refund of prepaid subscription fees for a termination pursuant to this section.
    CCP can not ban someone for sharing an IP address with someone who was banned, and not refund pre-paid fees



    You have no interest in the value of your time spent playing the Game, for example, by the building up of the experience level of your character and the items your character accumulates during your time playing the Game.
    They cannot stipulate you have no value in your time, it's just a total non sequitur(logically and legally)


    The sole and exclusive forum for resolving any controversy, dispute or claim arising out of or relating to the EULA, or otherwise relating to any rights in, access to or use of the Software, System, Game, Game Content, User Content and/or the rights and obligations of the parties hereto, shall be the District Court of Reykjavík, Iceland
    If they are selling a service to people in Ireland, they are able to be taken to court in Ireland.

    Just a few things, and all are under Irish law and from a solicitor friend here.

  • Cooki3Cooki3 Member Posts: 5

    That being said.

     

    It is perfectly legal for them to do all those things for one very simple reason.

     

    YOU ACCEPTED IT.

    Now I can imagine you'd argue this because your solicitor friend informed you of his interpretation. Yet it becomes nicely legally binding when you agree to it. But to help you along, I'll just refer to your quotes by numbers

     

    1. The can stipulate what you do with the account, for a non-internet perspective, you saying that you are allowed to do anything with your account is like saying that you can launder money through your bank account because its your account and not theirs. The reality of the situation is that you are only hiring a service space and not actually anything of substance or meaning outside of your monthly fee. You do not 'hold' your account as such, but rather the ability to login to a space reserved for you on THEIR server. They own it, you just rent it : ) Another non-internet analogy, try renting a flat and then renting it out to a friend for the same amount of money. The most important thing to understand is that in the internet life, you own nothing, you are always merely renting it.

     

    2. Similar situation, you accepted it, you live with it, perfectly legal and will stand up in any balanced court of justice. the only legal obligation they have upon you cancelling/being banned the account is that they don't charge you any more.

     

    3. You accept it, you live with it. If you are banned from your IP address for exploiting, then anyone else on that IP address can be legally banned by association of account. Read 2. for the prepaid bit : )

     

    4. Is a bit weird, but not illegal, in terms of your time, you are not obliged to play EVE and so your actual time has no value.

     

    5. They are not liable to be tried in Ireland, two reasons a) You accepted it, have to live with it, b) You'd need to get a court order to get a trial involving an internet based game company to be trialed anywhere but their home country. Simple reasoning is that the internet is not a country defined region. By example, you are actually playing the game on a London server.

     

    The main theme to understand here, is that its perfectly legal because you accepted it, as with all EULAs. If you sign a sheet from your boss saying he'll fire you in the next week, its perfectly legal for him to do so because you accepted it.

    the only way for you to get out of such clauses is to plead that you were tricked into agreeing when you were not truly intending to, but if you play the game then you obviously were intending to. You can tell your solicitor friend, and he can give you the legal passages and COURT CASE examples to support his arguement, I'd like to hear him defend you if you were banned and wanted to sue. I'd say he'd have a hard time of it : )

     

    "Curiously enough, the only thing that went through the mind of the bowl of petunias as it fell was "oh no... not again!" Many people have speculated that if we knew exactly why the bowl of petunias had thought that, we should know a lot more about the nature of the universe than we do now." - Douglas Adams

    www.cookieempire.co.uk

    By Gamers, For Gamers, Who love Cookies

    "Curiously enough, the only thing that went through the mind of the bowl of petunias as it fell was "oh no... not again!" Many people have speculated that if we knew exactly why the bowl of petunias had thought that, we should know a lot more about the nature of the universe than we do now." - Douglas Adams

    www.cookieempire.co.uk

    By Gamers, For Gamers, Who love Cookies

  • holythoughholythough Member Posts: 236

    Well it's obvious what happend here.

     

    You just pressed they matter till they gave back your account.

    After that they player that was playing got pissed because he got shafted out of his account.

    He then provided ultimate prove that they account was sold to him legal binding ccp to uphold there own eula.

     

    i don't understand why this bother you so much because you said in they beginning you wanted to either get back they accounts or get them banned.

    well there are banned now you should be happy

    edit: oh he doesn't have to provide prove you proved it where your accounts you already violated they eula because it states that any change of account ownership is illegal so if you can't prove that they account is stolen from you in an illegal way your srewd

  • Celt0rCelt0r Member Posts: 67



    Originally posted by Cooki3
    Now I can imagine you'd argue this because your solicitor friend informed you of his interpretation. Yet it becomes nicely legally binding when you agree to it. But to help you along, I'll just refer to your quotes by numbers
     
    1. The can stipulate what you do with the account, for a non-internet perspective, you saying that you are allowed to do anything with your account is like saying that you can launder money through your bank account because its your account and not theirs. The reality of the situation is that you are only hiring a service space and not actually anything of substance or meaning outside of your monthly fee. You do not 'hold' your account as such, but rather the ability to login to a space reserved for you on THEIR server. They own it, you just rent it : ) Another non-internet analogy, try renting a flat and then renting it out to a friend for the same amount of money. The most important thing to understand is that in the internet life, you own nothing, you are always merely renting it.
     
    2. Similar situation, you accepted it, you live with it, perfectly legal and will stand up in any balanced court of justice. the only legal obligation they have upon you cancelling/being banned the account is that they don't charge you any more.
     
    3. You accept it, you live with it. If you are banned from your IP address for exploiting, then anyone else on that IP address can be legally banned by association of account. Read 2. for the prepaid bit : )
     
    4. Is a bit weird, but not illegal, in terms of your time, you are not obliged to play EVE and so your actual time has no value.
     
    5. They are not liable to be tried in Ireland, two reasons a) You accepted it, have to live with it, b) You'd need to get a court order to get a trial involving an internet based game company to be trialed anywhere but their home country. Simple reasoning is that the internet is not a country defined region. By example, you are actually playing the game on a London server.
     
    The main theme to understand here, is that its perfectly legal because you accepted it, as with all EULAs. If you sign a sheet from your boss saying he'll fire you in the next week, its perfectly legal for him to do so because you accepted it.
    the only way for you to get out of such clauses is to plead that you were tricked into agreeing when you were not truly intending to, but if you play the game then you obviously were intending to. You can tell your solicitor friend, and he can give you the legal passages and COURT CASE examples to support his arguement, I'd like to hear him defend you if you were banned and wanted to sue. I'd say he'd have a hard time of it : )
     

    "Curiously enough, the only thing that went through the mind of the bowl of petunias as it fell was "oh no... not again!" Many people have speculated that if we knew exactly why the bowl of petunias had thought that, we should know a lot more about the nature of the universe than we do now." - Douglas Adams
    www.cookieempire.co.uk
    By Gamers, For Gamers, Who love Cookies




    Err I think you are missing the basic points, that if parts of the EULA are illegal then even by agreeing to it doesnt make it legally binding.


    A contract must obey the law, or else it is void.

    Same for a EULA.

     

    1. Actually, you are buying an account, when you purchase a copy of the game in the shop, you are not buying the software but the CD-Key with the software, the cd-key being an account you own.

     

    2. It is not legal, using your analogy, if you pay 12 months rent but get ejected for no reason(which in itself is illegal), you are entitled to your prepaid money back.

     

    3. As said, just because you accept it, doesnt make it legally binding as it is illegal in itself.

    That is like saying prostitution becomes legal if you sign a piece of paper.

     

    4. Your time always has value, the fact you are not obliged to play doesnt remove this.

     

    5. If I buy a graphics card from a registered company in Iceland over the internet, and instead they send me empty packaging and refuse to give me what I paid for, I can take them to court in Ireland.

     

     

    btw, even if you sign a sheet of paper that your boss was planning to fire you next week, unless he can provide adequate grounds for dismissal he can be investigated and potentially litigated.

     

    A contract does not make illegal things legal, that is a fact.

  • MaceGriffinMaceGriffin Member Posts: 53

    Yet another post from someone who didnt get there way.Ive seen this type of posting sooo many times its not even funny anymore.

    Every mmo on the market has one of these"__insert name of game here___ is going down because i got screwed over by the gm's when i didnt read the EULA"type of postings.

    Do you really think that just because YOU quit playing it will soon be over for the rest of us?

    Do yourself and the rest of us a favor and just quit.I read your rant and i just dont see anything in it that is NOT personal.

  • Celt0rCelt0r Member Posts: 67



    Originally posted by MaceGriffin

    Yet another post from someone who didnt get there way.Ive seen this type of posting sooo many times its not even funny anymore.
    Every mmo on the market has one of these"__insert name of game here___ is going down because i got screwed over by the gm's when i didnt read the EULA"type of postings.
    Do you really think that just because YOU quit playing it will soon be over for the rest of us?
    Do yourself and the rest of us a favor and just quit.I read your rant and i just dont see anything in it that is NOT personal.



    People see what they want to see.

  • Celt0rCelt0r Member Posts: 67
    Can a mod close this thread please?

    Everything that needs to be said has been said.

  • MordokMordok Member Posts: 9


    Originally posted by Cooki3
    That being said.

    It is perfectly legal for them to do all those things for one very simple reason.

    YOU ACCEPTED IT.

    Agreed, and the law has nothing to do with fairness. Law is Law and it's as it is written, not as you want.

    The universe has died and been reborn before. Remember, I am of the First.
    I survived the first destruction, to see the end of the Second World
    and the beginning of the Third and Fourth.

    The universe has died and been reborn before. Remember, I am of the First.
    I survived the first destruction, to see the end of the Second World
    and the beginning of the Third and Fourth.

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