My god... just when i thought the limit of arrogance was reached i got proved wrong. Who are you to decide for everybody else that a certain game is good or bad? It's all trough the eye of the beholder! So don't try to pass on your individual judgement onto others, it wont work. That "we" thingy at the beginning of every sentence, change it into "I" and read your own text again...
I am not working to any gaming company , i dont wanna make ppls follow me.
Would be nice though if they open their eyes.
No the "WE" thingy is for some millions gamers , who not following the maze , ty .
Who said you are working for any gaming company? Annyway.... millions of gamers that agree with you, probably true. But how many times do i need to repeat myself to you? This is not a matter of right or wrong, it's a matter of opinion. On one side we've got millions of people who are enjoying wow and on the other side we have millions who dont like wow. There's no more to it then that...
And stop using the word "we", you sound like a fecking BORG soldier from star trek. All those others you talk about are just people who happen to share the same opinion.
Why you give some evidence that WoW players haven't played other games? How do you know they don't?
I am playing with ppls who tried games that gave something to MMORPG's (EQ2, UO , Daoc, etc). They have the same opinion as i do.
WoW isnt a game for hardcore gamers. Its a MMORPG for 14-20 years old. Good to learn some basic things but not for anything else .
Have u ever go to an internet cafe? Its a place full of WoW kids player. I rarely see ppls playing some else.
It's not just about an opinion, when you say that millions of players can't handle terrible games, you're saying they can't handle the other games.
Some ppls have set low standars. And WoW is one of the easymode ones.
Consider this; the main argument players have when saying WoW is easy, is the death penalty doesn't make you lose exp (you lose gold instead). This is just a factor of time, just because it doesn't take as long to level because you die alot, it doesn't make the game less difficult to play well, it just takes less time.
No really . If i know they game , i am skilled i have died1 time . But the noob who is the same lvl as me , have died millions time , but he is still same lvl as i am ... isnt the same ... Maybe i dont like easy games ...
Why you give some evidence that WoW players haven't played other games? How do you know they don't? It's not just about an opinion, when you say that millions of players can't handle terrible games, you're saying they can't handle the other games.
Simple math lad. Check this table (taken from mmogchart.com
2004 -January number of subscribers
EQ2 - (Coming on Jule - 300.000 subs)
EQ1 - 450.000
CoX - 150.000
Final Fantasy 550.000
Star Wars Galaxies 300.000
Lineage 1 - 2.000.000
Linage 2 - 900.000
Asheron;s call 1 - 50.000
Now compare it with middle of year 2005: after wow came on market
EQ2 - 225.000 (-75.000)
EQ1 - 380.000 (-70.000)
CoX - 180.000 (+30.000)
Final Fantasy - 620.000 (+70.000)
Lineage 2 - 2.100.000 (+1.200.000)
Lineage 1 - 1.800.000 (-200.000)
Star Wars Galaxies 250.000 (-50.000)
Asheron's call 1 - 50.000 (0)
If you don't realize what does this means you should go back to high school. This shows that the number of players that left older games for wow is minimal (if we dont count lineage which mostly has asian players), and that majority of the people playing WOW are first-timers, basically mmorpg-newbies.
You're saying that if I don't accept your flawed logic at face value, I should go back to school? Well, guess I'm going back to school then because I don't accept your logic because it's flawed, and here is why:
1) You're using zero sum logic inappropriately. Many players are subscribed to several games. When my guild left for WoW, almost all of us kept our EQ accounts for a while. Bottom line; some people play multiple MMOs. Just because something new comes along doesn't mean you immediately cancel your current MMO, it could take a while, perhaps playing both games until you eventually become exclusively addicted to your new MMO. People form friendships, so immediately cutting yourself off from interacting in the world you met them in isn't high on the agenda of a lot of people.
2) Numbers tell you nothing about how many games those people have played. EQ has had millions of players over the years, people who have quit - who is to say many of those millions of players haven't gone to WoW? You simply can't use numbers to prove the point you're trying to make.
3) Much of WoWs culture and nomenclature is taken directly from EQ. That alone should tell you something about where a large portion of WoW players come from.
4) Exclusively EQ sites such as mobhunter.com (one of EQs most popular, created by Moorgard who later became an EQ2 dev), have switched focus to WoW. That site has no commercial interest, it's simply following the trend of where the oldschool EQers have gone.
5) Almost everyone these compares their favorite MMOs to WoW, for better or worse. How could they compare it if they have only played WoW exclusively? Are you trying to say that everyone who plays WoW and another game instantly goes to the other game? It's time you ask you to back up a statement with some reason for a change. I'm tired of stating the obvious.
Now, I guess I need to see if my old school uniform still fits after all these years.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
You're saying that if I don't accept your flawed logic at face value, I should go back to school? Well, guess I'm going back to school then because I don't accept your logic because it's flawed, and here is why: 1) You're using zero sum logic inappropriately. Many players are subscribed to several games. When my guild left for WoW, almost all of us kept our EQ accounts for a while. Bottom line; some people play multiple MMOs. Just because something new comes along doesn't mean you immediately cancel your current MMO, it could take a while, perhaps playing both games until you eventually become exclusively addicted to your new MMO. 2) Numbers tell you nothing about how many games those people have played. EQ has had millions of players over the years, people who have quit - who is to say many of those millions of players haven't gone to WoW? You simply can't use numbers to prove the point you're trying to make. 3) Much of WoWs culture and nomenclature is taken directly rom EQ. Many concepts and terms are taken directly from that game.
Now, I guess I need to see if my old school uniform still fits after all these years.
Its pretty fun to read your last egocentric line of your every post that has an obvious feel like you had achieve something grandious.
Ill try to explain once again, if you cant take the simple logic, then god this discusion is pointless
Number of subscribers before wow : Lets say CCA 2.000.000 if we dont count Asia.
Number of subscribers after wow came on market, that are subscribers to other games: 1.800.000 CCA (lets accept that -200.000) left for wow.
WoW current subscriber number is a couple milions. Im not sure whats the exact number of EU+US (If we dont count asia). But lets assume its 2.500.000.
Are you telling me that those 2.300.000 people are what? Still all of them subscribers to their previous mmorpg? Or just part of it? How much. Is your argument coming from your personal experience or you can really support it with some statistical numbers.
Why you give some evidence that WoW players haven't played other games? How do you know they don't? It's not just about an opinion, when you say that millions of players can't handle terrible games, you're saying they can't handle the other games.
Simple math lad. Check this table (taken from mmogchart.com
2004 -January number of subscribers
EQ2 - (Coming on Jule - 300.000 subs)
EQ1 - 450.000
CoX - 150.000
Final Fantasy 550.000
Star Wars Galaxies 300.000
Lineage 1 - 2.000.000
Linage 2 - 900.000
Asheron;s call 1 - 50.000
Now compare it with middle of year 2005: after wow came on market
EQ2 - 225.000 (-75.000)
EQ1 - 380.000 (-70.000)
CoX - 180.000 (+30.000)
Final Fantasy - 620.000 (+70.000)
Lineage 2 - 2.100.000 (+1.200.000)
Lineage 1 - 1.800.000 (-200.000)
Star Wars Galaxies 250.000 (-50.000)
Asheron's call 1 - 50.000 (0)
If you don't realize what does this means you should go back to high school. This shows that the number of players that left older games for wow is minimal (if we dont count lineage which mostly has asian players), and that majority of the people playing WOW are first-timers, basically mmorpg-newbies.
You're saying if I don't accept your flawed logic at face value, I should go back to school? Well, guess I'm going back to school then because I don't accept your logic because it's flawed, and here is why:
1) You're using zero sum logic inappropriately. Many players are subscribed to several games. When my guild left for WoW, almost all of us kept our EQ accounts for a while. Bottom line; some people play multiple MMOs. Just because something new comes along doesn't mean you immediately cancel your current MMO, it could take a while, perhaps playing both games until you eventually become exclusively addicted to your new MMO.
2) Numbers tell you nothing about how many games those people have played. EQ has had millions of players over the years, people who have quit - who is to say many of those millions of players haven't gone to WoW? You simply can't use numbers to prove the point you're trying to make.
3) Much of WoWs culture and nomenclature is taken directly rom EQ. Many concepts and terms are taken directly from that game.
Now, I guess I need to see if my old school uniform still fits after all these years.
Recant, I understand what you are saying but the overwhelming opinion from various forums and guilds of veteran players is that WoW is getting old and boring. I mean even Vanguard got some serious play from FoH even in it's horrible release state. They wanted it to work badly and why? Because WoW just doesn't do it for them. WoW doesn't really do it for most of the old MMO players. That isn't to say that WoW isn't a decent game, but the main problem is that WoW really isn't anything new. What Blizzard does so well is take ideas from other games and refine/polish them up and release them in their game. That allows them to have an extremely polished game that generally garners great reviews.
Also just looking at the three reviewers that I personally usually look at:
IGN - WoW 91, TBC - 88
PC Gamer - WoW 91, TBC - 88
PC Gamer UK - WoW 93, TBC - 87
Yes those aren't profound drops in review, but according to metacritic WoW recieved an average of 93 and TBC 91. That does show that even critics are getting a little bored of the same.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
You're saying that if I don't accept your flawed logic at face value, I should go back to school? Well, guess I'm going back to school then because I don't accept your logic because it's flawed, and here is why: 1) You're using zero sum logic inappropriately. Many players are subscribed to several games. When my guild left for WoW, almost all of us kept our EQ accounts for a while. Bottom line; some people play multiple MMOs. Just because something new comes along doesn't mean you immediately cancel your current MMO, it could take a while, perhaps playing both games until you eventually become exclusively addicted to your new MMO. 2) Numbers tell you nothing about how many games those people have played. EQ has had millions of players over the years, people who have quit - who is to say many of those millions of players haven't gone to WoW? You simply can't use numbers to prove the point you're trying to make. 3) Much of WoWs culture and nomenclature is taken directly rom EQ. Many concepts and terms are taken directly from that game.
Now, I guess I need to see if my old school uniform still fits after all these years.
Its pretty fun to read your last egocentric line of your every post that has an obvious feel like you had achieve something grandious.
Ill try to explain once again, if you cant take the simple logic, then god this discusion is pointless
Number of subscribers before wow : Lets say CCA 2.000.000 if we dont count Asia.
Number of subscribers after wow came on market, that are subscribers to other games: 1.800.000 CCA (lets accept that -200.000) left for wow.
WoW current subscriber number is a couple milions. Im not sure whats the exact number of EU+US (If we dont count asia). But lets assume its 2.500.000.
Are you telling me that those 2.300.000 people are what? Still all of them subscribers to their previous mmorpg? Or just part of it? How much. Is your argument coming from your personal experience or you can really support it with some statistical numbers.
I remember reading an article and of course I can't remember where now that stated the vast majority of WoW's NA/EU Subscriber base had never played an MMO before. The same thing happened with LOTRO as well. Not that it really matters.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
You might want to recheck my reply. I wasn't happy with it, and I was busily beefing it out it while you were writing your reply. It has further explanation as to why you're using flawed logic. But on to your reply anyway:
Ok lets get this clear; you claimed that the majority of players were MMO newbies. So when you ask if they're still subscribers to a previous MMO - it doesn't matter if they're still subscribed, it just matters that they were subscribed at one point.
That, and those 5 points I've given you lend considerable weight to the argument that in fact, it's very likely that a large proportion of WoW players come from other games.
I can't ask all 4 million or so EU/Western players, and 4.5 millon asian players individually if they've played another game. And neither can you. But you are the one calling us MMO newbies, you're making the bold blanket statement you come up with some reasoning. I've given you 5 reasons, you give me some.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
You're saying that if I don't accept your flawed logic at face value, I should go back to school? Well, guess I'm going back to school then because I don't accept your logic because it's flawed, and here is why: 1) You're using zero sum logic inappropriately. Many players are subscribed to several games. When my guild left for WoW, almost all of us kept our EQ accounts for a while. Bottom line; some people play multiple MMOs. Just because something new comes along doesn't mean you immediately cancel your current MMO, it could take a while, perhaps playing both games until you eventually become exclusively addicted to your new MMO. 2) Numbers tell you nothing about how many games those people have played. EQ has had millions of players over the years, people who have quit - who is to say many of those millions of players haven't gone to WoW? You simply can't use numbers to prove the point you're trying to make. 3) Much of WoWs culture and nomenclature is taken directly rom EQ. Many concepts and terms are taken directly from that game.
Now, I guess I need to see if my old school uniform still fits after all these years.
Its pretty fun to read your last egocentric line of your every post that has an obvious feel like you had achieve something grandious.
Ill try to explain once again, if you cant take the simple logic, then god this discusion is pointless
Number of subscribers before wow : Lets say CCA 2.000.000 if we dont count Asia.
Number of subscribers after wow came on market, that are subscribers to other games: 1.800.000 CCA (lets accept that -200.000) left for wow.
WoW current subscriber number is a couple milions. Im not sure whats the exact number of EU+US (If we dont count asia). But lets assume its 2.500.000.
Are you telling me that those 2.300.000 people are what? Still all of them subscribers to their previous mmorpg? Or just part of it? How much. Is your argument coming from your personal experience or you can really support it with some statistical numbers.
I remember reading an article and of course I can't remember where now that stated the vast majority of WoW's NA/EU Subscriber base had never played an MMO before. The same thing happened with LOTRO as well. Not that it really matters.
Well it's pretty useless if you don't know where, for all we know you could be making it up, or that you misread it. I certainly don't believe you, so here's your glorious chance to prove me wrong. If it existed the chances are you can find it on Google, so off you go-a-searching.
Of course I don't expect you to find it, for whatever reason.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Why you give some evidence that WoW players haven't played other games? How do you know they don't? It's not just about an opinion, when you say that millions of players can't handle terrible games, you're saying they can't handle the other games.
Simple math lad. Check this table (taken from mmogchart.com
2004 -January number of subscribers
EQ2 - (Coming on Jule - 300.000 subs)
EQ1 - 450.000
CoX - 150.000
Final Fantasy 550.000
Star Wars Galaxies 300.000
Lineage 1 - 2.000.000
Linage 2 - 900.000
Asheron;s call 1 - 50.000
Now compare it with middle of year 2005: after wow came on market
EQ2 - 225.000 (-75.000)
EQ1 - 380.000 (-70.000)
CoX - 180.000 (+30.000)
Final Fantasy - 620.000 (+70.000)
Lineage 2 - 2.100.000 (+1.200.000)
Lineage 1 - 1.800.000 (-200.000)
Star Wars Galaxies 250.000 (-50.000)
Asheron's call 1 - 50.000 (0)
If you don't realize what does this means you should go back to high school. This shows that the number of players that left older games for wow is minimal (if we dont count lineage which mostly has asian players), and that majority of the people playing WOW are first-timers, basically mmorpg-newbies.
You're saying if I don't accept your flawed logic at face value, I should go back to school? Well, guess I'm going back to school then because I don't accept your logic because it's flawed, and here is why:
1) You're using zero sum logic inappropriately. Many players are subscribed to several games. When my guild left for WoW, almost all of us kept our EQ accounts for a while. Bottom line; some people play multiple MMOs. Just because something new comes along doesn't mean you immediately cancel your current MMO, it could take a while, perhaps playing both games until you eventually become exclusively addicted to your new MMO.
2) Numbers tell you nothing about how many games those people have played. EQ has had millions of players over the years, people who have quit - who is to say many of those millions of players haven't gone to WoW? You simply can't use numbers to prove the point you're trying to make.
3) Much of WoWs culture and nomenclature is taken directly rom EQ. Many concepts and terms are taken directly from that game.
Now, I guess I need to see if my old school uniform still fits after all these years.
Recant, I understand what you are saying but the overwhelming opinion from various forums and guilds of veteran players is that WoW is getting old and boring. I mean even Vanguard got some serious play from FoH even in it's horrible release state. They wanted it to work badly and why? Because WoW just doesn't do it for them. WoW doesn't really do it for most of the old MMO players. That isn't to say that WoW isn't a decent game, but the main problem is that WoW really isn't anything new. What Blizzard does so well is take ideas from other games and refine/polish them up and release them in their game. That allows them to have an extremely polished game that generally garners great reviews.
Also just looking at the three reviewers that I personally usually look at:
IGN - WoW 91, TBC - 88
PC Gamer - WoW 91, TBC - 88
PC Gamer UK - WoW 93, TBC - 87
Yes those aren't profound drops in review, but according to metacritic WoW recieved an average of 93 and TBC 91. That does show that even critics are getting a little bored of the same.
Yes, and yet; other critics rated the expansion higher than the original game. I am getting really tired of copying and pasting but I assure you you'll find them on metacritic.
I don't argue that WoW, for many, is getting boring. I think that due to the sheer number of players in WoW makes the effect of mass boredom seem a lot worse than it actually is.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Ok, I've been at this for hours now. I've obviously got way to much time on my hands, but that's enough for now . I think I've made good points, I've gone further than anyone here today to back them up.
My main gripe here is that WoW is not a #19 game. There are not 18 MMOs better than World of Warcraft, come on! This site hates WoW, we know that, but a little bit of objectivity is all you need to see my point.
Try playing the devil's advocate for a sec; I used to hate WoW as much as you guys did, you know. Though you probably would never believe it, the amount I've been defending it today.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Why you give some evidence that WoW players haven't played other games? How do you know they don't? It's not just about an opinion, when you say that millions of players can't handle terrible games, you're saying they can't handle the other games.
Simple math lad. Check this table (taken from mmogchart.com
2004 -January number of subscribers
EQ2 - (Coming on Jule - 300.000 subs)
EQ1 - 450.000
CoX - 150.000
Final Fantasy 550.000
Star Wars Galaxies 300.000
Lineage 1 - 2.000.000
Linage 2 - 900.000
Asheron;s call 1 - 50.000
Now compare it with middle of year 2005: after wow came on market
EQ2 - 225.000 (-75.000)
EQ1 - 380.000 (-70.000)
CoX - 180.000 (+30.000)
Final Fantasy - 620.000 (+70.000)
Lineage 2 - 2.100.000 (+1.200.000)
Lineage 1 - 1.800.000 (-200.000)
Star Wars Galaxies 250.000 (-50.000)
Asheron's call 1 - 50.000 (0)
If you don't realize what does this means you should go back to high school. This shows that the number of players that left older games for wow is minimal (if we dont count lineage which mostly has asian players), and that majority of the people playing WOW are first-timers, basically mmorpg-newbies.
You're saying if I don't accept your flawed logic at face value, I should go back to school? Well, guess I'm going back to school then because I don't accept your logic because it's flawed, and here is why:
1) You're using zero sum logic inappropriately. Many players are subscribed to several games. When my guild left for WoW, almost all of us kept our EQ accounts for a while. Bottom line; some people play multiple MMOs. Just because something new comes along doesn't mean you immediately cancel your current MMO, it could take a while, perhaps playing both games until you eventually become exclusively addicted to your new MMO.
2) Numbers tell you nothing about how many games those people have played. EQ has had millions of players over the years, people who have quit - who is to say many of those millions of players haven't gone to WoW? You simply can't use numbers to prove the point you're trying to make.
3) Much of WoWs culture and nomenclature is taken directly rom EQ. Many concepts and terms are taken directly from that game.
Now, I guess I need to see if my old school uniform still fits after all these years.
Recant, I understand what you are saying but the overwhelming opinion from various forums and guilds of veteran players is that WoW is getting old and boring. I mean even Vanguard got some serious play from FoH even in it's horrible release state. They wanted it to work badly and why? Because WoW just doesn't do it for them. WoW doesn't really do it for most of the old MMO players. That isn't to say that WoW isn't a decent game, but the main problem is that WoW really isn't anything new. What Blizzard does so well is take ideas from other games and refine/polish them up and release them in their game. That allows them to have an extremely polished game that generally garners great reviews.
Also just looking at the three reviewers that I personally usually look at:
IGN - WoW 91, TBC - 88
PC Gamer - WoW 91, TBC - 88
PC Gamer UK - WoW 93, TBC - 87
Yes those aren't profound drops in review, but according to metacritic WoW recieved an average of 93 and TBC 91. That does show that even critics are getting a little bored of the same.
Yes, and yet; other critics rated the expansion higher than the original game. I am getting really tired of copying and pasting but I assure you you'll find them on metacritic.
I don't argue that WoW, for many, is getting boring. I think that due to the sheer number of players in WoW makes the effect of mass boredom seem a lot worse than it actually is.
I didn't say the problem was bad. I said I thought that WoW had seen it's peak and has started its fall in NA/EU. I would guess that by next year WoW will have less then 1 million subscribers in the NA/EU market (out of the current 2.5 to 3million) which would still make it a hugely successful MMO game. From all the rumbles on the "street" though I think we will see several of the new MMOs getting massive amounts of players (as long as they can release a quality product). LOTRO is a good example. Conservative estimates put them at around 350K subscriptions and as high as 1 million. We will see what happens if WAR launches as well as LOTRO did.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Ok, I've been at this for hours now. I've obviously got way to much time on my hands, but that's enough for now . I think I've made good points, I've gone further than anyone here today to back them up. My main gripe here is that WoW is not a #19 game. There are not 18 MMOs better than World of Warcraft, come on! This site hates WoW, we know that, but a little bit of objectivity is all you need to see my point. Try playing the devil's advocate for a sec; I used to hate WoW as much as you guys did, you know. Though you probably would never believe it, the amount I've been defending it today.
The thing is that it isn't just this site. When I looked at metacritics even the people who posted their own ratings for TBC gave it a 6.5. 8.1 on 1up. 8.7 at gamespot. and 8.4 from IGN. Those are the sites I can think off the top of my head that let people set their own reviews. Each of those sites has a lower review score from the people when compared to the reviewer.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
I still think this entire argument is pointless. But just for the sake of stirring the pot. Recant, why aren't you playing WoW if it's so great? And what is with all the personal attacks against everyone? If you're going to argue about the game that's one thing, pointless, but it's one thing. But at least respect others' views and not attack them personally, that's just going to far.
WoW is a good game, I didnt want to play it at first, but all my RL friends, even ones i havnt seen for like 7 yrs, play it. so i tried it out and love it. over the couple of yrs, ive quit like 3 times and come back, possibly addiction. but its not a bad game, it has cartoon graphics, but whatever, it runs great on low end comps. I dont know why you care that it is in 18th place, but all MMO's on this site are placed into categories by the ratings of members of this community such as yourself... Most people in this this forum are all about MMO and being such, they tend to go for eith A:Graphics, B: Community, C: hype and whats others think of it. WoW just doesnt appeal to people coming come classic MMO's that have been on this site for along time, and probly never will, so although I like WoW, i can see why it does not deserve a top rating for this site. nor does it matter.
i was checking the game list and see which game is in which place and it seems Wow is in 19th place..Planet Side is higher then wow... i guess wow just got boreding or something. and loseing funess!
Frankly, I'm surprised Plantside hasn't went the way of Auto Assault...talk about a game on an IV drip and ready to tadminister defib...
TBH WoW is a beginner MMO, it brough a lot of new people to the genre because it is so easy to play and is appealing to a wider range of people than the more difficult MMO's.
This site is contains a more experienced playerbase that started playing MMO's long before WoW came out, to the rest of the MMO world, WoW is a joke and a breaze. If this was a site for newbies and kids, then WoW would be ranked higher.
WoW is great.................if your 12 or new to the genre
LOL your thinking is exactly backwards. WOW is for adults , even tho many kids play it. I will even Explain WHY.
First off I'll start with myself as a example and the guild I'm in.
I'm a 32 year old gamer in RPG genre since 1981 when I was first introduced to D&D, as video games came out I played all the various RPG titles that came out both dice and video, still to this day my 3 favotire games of all time are in fact Final Fantasy 7, Knights of the old republic, and White wolf's werewolf:apocolyps (dice).
As for MMO's I was a pub 4 Star wars galaxies vet, played almost 3 full years non-stop every day 6 hours a day on average and up to 18 on my days off work. I was a hard core SWG player , 4 accounts 1 of which was a Pre-CU JEdi. When SWG - was crushed. I wondered about, EQ2 (6 months) , RF on-line (1 year). tried a few "hardcore pvp games" tried the hardcore PVE games.. even tried Sim type games, did ALOT of beta testing!
About 6 months back one of my Co-workers and RL friends asked me to try WOW, mostly just to hang out with them and have fun.
I was like yeah sure nothing better to do. Up until this point WoW just never appealed to me, cause at a glance it does look , basic and rudementary and probably a kiddies game with kiddie gfx.
What I found totally shocked me. It was a balanced, complete package, bug free, fast fast customer support, massive population compared to ANY game I seen. weekly updates, monthly patches , now yearly expansions. optional PVP, in terms of PVP servers for those that want to be hardcore types and PVE servers with PVP toggle for more quest type players.
I joined the guild and became warmly welcomed into a global community of gamers accross the USA and Australia all in there late 20's and early 30's. In fact there is only maybe a handful of like 15 or so in this guild of 370 + members that are under age of 17 and i think half of them are teens that game with there parents.
Now with all that said, the reason why WOW appeals to most of us working class adults is a few reasons.
1) its non time demanding, I dont have to be logged in 24/7 just to survive gamewise
2) Its a set of quests, NPC , leveling, get gear, weapons, fight dragons. Its what D&D was to us orginal gamers.
3) the PVP despite what many say.. if you play all classes like myself, it is well balanced if you know how to use your class in its role. I suspect this is where many of the leet kids actually Hate wow PVP, cause you CAN NOT 1 shot ppl near your level you just wont. and with out that mindless overpowering found in other games, there to lazy to use real player skill and team work, and it makes them mad and they bash WOW for it.
4) for us its a fun, its a game, its a hobby, WE DO NOT WANT A FULLTIME JOB. we have that in RL, we have taxes, war, and death all ready in RL as adults that we deal with, we have enough responsibility and obligations all ready, we WANT a GAME that is fun , relaxing and we can be a orc, elf, troll gnome in a fantasy world wher ewe fight demons and dragons.
What it comes too is its a casual game, you can be equal to the elite no life gamer even if you only play a few hours a day, those elitist are the ones that bash this game, or the kids that want a easy I win FPS style PVP button, or I see alot of ppl bash on WOW that have never even tried the game, just blindly hate it cause its the most popular on the block and there feeling that teen rebellion issue and refuse to accept anything the masses do.
WOW is a adults game, its for fun, its non intensive. you can actually be good in this game and have a full time RL job, and a social life and still be competive with out dedicating your life to it.
Thats why more adults like wow then Kids to be very very honest.
Miataka (+many sub variation of that) ~WoW (Kael'Thas, USA) MiaTaka ~ RF On-line (Fire Server) -Mia- takahashi ~SWG (Europe-chimaera) Miataki Valeinca ~EQ 2 (everfrost) MiaTaka Soyinka ~Second Life
Surely if I'd be thinking about graphics for Pokemon Online, WoW engine would suit it best. I can't understand one thing, why does all the 30+aged people try to convice others that cartoons are for adults.
Seriously, I agree WoW IS a casual game with no depth, so I wonder why the wiser part of wow population doesnt start to play some other game where actually end-game is not consisted of just an item grind. I have nothing against an exaggarated example of materialism, I am materialist by myself but in real world. Materialism in virtual world is basically spiritualism.
WOW is a adults game, its for fun, its non intensive. you can actually be good in this game and have a full time RL job, and a social life and still be competive with out dedicating your life to it.
This is so true, at least the second part. The fact that it doesnt matter how good a player is or how much time he spends in game means two things. The character customization in game is absolutely irrelevant, or there is plenty of pre-builds and you just pick one of them. You can't do a wrong decision and every spec is equally strong.
And second it means that random mechanics behind the game are much more affecting gameplay then anything else. Gear means a huge difference, and no skill can balance out gear differences.
Surely if I'd be thinking about graphics for Pokemon Online, WoW engine would suit it best. I can't understand one thing, why does all the 30+aged people try to convice others that cartoons are for adults. Seriously, I agree WoW IS a casual game with no depth, so I wonder why the wiser part of wow population doesnt start to play some other game where actually end-game is not consisted of just an item grind. I have nothing against an exaggarated example of materialism, I am materialist by myself but in real world. Materialism in virtual world is basically spiritualism.
Originally posted by miataka
WOW is a adults game, its for fun, its non intensive. you can actually be good in this game and have a full time RL job, and a social life and still be competive with out dedicating your life to it.
This is so true, at least the second part. The fact that it doesnt matter how good a player is or how much time he spends in game means two things. The character customization in game is absolutely irrelevant, or there is plenty of pre-builds and you just pick one of them. You can't do a wrong decision and every spec is equally strong.
And second it means that random mechanics behind the game are much more affecting gameplay then anything else. Gear means a huge difference, and no skill can balance out gear differences.
First of all, stating ones Opinion is not trying to convince anyone of anything, I personally dont care if you play or not.
Yes I know its such a strange notion that games should be fun, balanced, and fair. Sorry if you have no life and dedicated 22 hours a day to the game you wont be better then the guy or girl playing 4 hours a day, you will end up at the same point, Its called fairness.
I know people get that silly Idea in there head that if they sacraifce sooo much of themself to something like a video game they get this special privalges that no one else gets.
TBH if you really think that seek help, professional help, with medication. No one should live life through a game
GAME= FUN anything else you are delusional. its a game, not a way of life.
Miataka (+many sub variation of that) ~WoW (Kael'Thas, USA) MiaTaka ~ RF On-line (Fire Server) -Mia- takahashi ~SWG (Europe-chimaera) Miataki Valeinca ~EQ 2 (everfrost) MiaTaka Soyinka ~Second Life
I don't know why everyone takes this stuff so seriously. It's no different I guess than when you talk to a sports freak about last nights game and they are all like "yeah, we kicked their butts last night," or"man, that stupid ref needs glasses, OUR touchdown should have counted!!"
Um..er...yeah.
First off...you don't own the game/ you don't play on that team...its not yours, its just a stupid GAME.
On the other hand, what you see a lot of is people bashing other peoples hobbies, just because its not theirs. People tend to get offended at that.
Personally, I don't like WoW. Does that mean its a bad game or waste of pixels? No. It just means I don't like it.
Now, if you like WoW, does that mean that everyone else hates you? Well, yes...j/k, lol. The answer is no, or at least they shouldn't. But it still doesn't mean their opinion is wrong, it's just different than yours.
Now, can't we all dance around the maypole and sing about shiny happy people?
No? bah! Didn't think so. Ok, lets all load up an FPS and settle this once and for all!! grrrr!
I don't know why everyone takes this stuff so seriously. It's no different I guess than when you talk to a sports freak about last nights game and they are all like "yeah, we kicked their butts last night," or"man, that stupid ref needs glasses, OUR touchdown should have counted!!" Um..er...yeah. First off...you don't own the game/ you don't play on that team...its not yours, its just a stupid GAME. On the other hand, what you see a lot of is people bashing other peoples hobbies, just because its not theirs. People tend to get offended at that. Personally, I don't like WoW. Does that mean its a bad game or waste of pixels? No. It just means I don't like it. Now, if you like WoW, does that mean that everyone else hates you? Well, yes...j/k, lol. The answer is no, or at least they shouldn't. But it still doesn't mean their opinion is wrong, it's just different than yours. Now, can't we all dance around the maypole and sing about shiny happy people? No? bah! Didn't think so. Ok, lets all load up an FPS and settle this once and for all!! grrrr!
LOL D.
You are right!!!! I like your opinion. and how you present it, if only there were more people as mature as you.
But no , as it is...
I find it silly that Im in a WOW forum on a defensive. If someone hates the game WHY do they read WOW forums, do they somehow think tha there Opionon will effect ALL of that love teh game and makes us all quit playing just because I read a post on some form by some no name guy who's opinion I could careless if they exisited or not said he didnt like the GAME me and my friends are having fun with.
really Trolls need to find a game that makes them happy and go there and read there forums, and all pat each other on the back for finding the game they love.
It just amazes me how many idiots go out of there way , what, to basically get any knd of attention they can. doing stuff like posting how much they hate a game in the forum for it.
God if only parent would just spend a lil more time with ther kids we wont end up with these emotional baggage attention seeking GAME NAZI's that feel they must spread the word on why they hate something OBVIOUSLY millions of us love. Just to get ANYONE they can to notice them for a second, even if its in a negative way.
Miataka (+many sub variation of that) ~WoW (Kael'Thas, USA) MiaTaka ~ RF On-line (Fire Server) -Mia- takahashi ~SWG (Europe-chimaera) Miataki Valeinca ~EQ 2 (everfrost) MiaTaka Soyinka ~Second Life
I am realy sorry that WOW is going down in ratings... when i begined to play MMOs I started with WoW and i must say it was awesome for me. i played for like 1,5 year, and after TBC i quit, it' was boring, so i decided to change game, But This game is realy cool
I am realy sorry that WOW is going down in ratings... when i begined to play MMOs I started with WoW and i must say it was awesome for me. i played for like 1,5 year, and after TBC i quit, it' was boring, so i decided to change game, But This game is realy cool
Good to see another well written opinion. Sated what you thought, in a clear non negative fashion.
Its good to see, and I hope mature postive posts become common.
I myself am still having fun in WoW, waiting for Age of Conan and Gods & heroes.
Miataka (+many sub variation of that) ~WoW (Kael'Thas, USA) MiaTaka ~ RF On-line (Fire Server) -Mia- takahashi ~SWG (Europe-chimaera) Miataki Valeinca ~EQ 2 (everfrost) MiaTaka Soyinka ~Second Life
I think its only logical to assume that due to the giant population of WoW, it probably has more ex players than any other games. Those people come here, looking for more mmo goodness, and review WoW. Generally when you leave a game, theres a reason, hence the lower rating.
On the subject of average game player age, maybe it is high twenties, but i would guess that it would be lower for MMOs. One thing bugs me though. Those are NA surveys its not taking into account the huge number of gamers in europe and asia. im sure if you added asia into the mix the average would drop alot. If we are talking NA only, we have to start talking about WoW having 3 million subs.
Well because we are self-obsessive creeps with real life that starts and ends at a cup of coffey in a nearby coffey-house. Usually paying more MMORPG at the same time so we dont get bored during maintance days. In additon we surely have some illusionary feel that we are the best at what we are doing and that our opinions really matter.
Comments
I am not working to any gaming company , i dont wanna make ppls follow me.
Would be nice though if they open their eyes.
No the "WE" thingy is for some millions gamers , who not following the maze , ty .
Who said you are working for any gaming company? Annyway.... millions of gamers that agree with you, probably true. But how many times do i need to repeat myself to you? This is not a matter of right or wrong, it's a matter of opinion. On one side we've got millions of people who are enjoying wow and on the other side we have millions who dont like wow. There's no more to it then that...
And stop using the word "we", you sound like a fecking BORG soldier from star trek. All those others you talk about are just people who happen to share the same opinion.
Why you give some evidence that WoW players haven't played other games? How do you know they don't?
I am playing with ppls who tried games that gave something to MMORPG's (EQ2, UO , Daoc, etc). They have the same opinion as i do.
WoW isnt a game for hardcore gamers. Its a MMORPG for 14-20 years old. Good to learn some basic things but not for anything else .
Have u ever go to an internet cafe? Its a place full of WoW kids player. I rarely see ppls playing some else.
It's not just about an opinion, when you say that millions of players can't handle terrible games, you're saying they can't handle the other games.
Some ppls have set low standars. And WoW is one of the easymode ones.
Consider this; the main argument players have when saying WoW is easy, is the death penalty doesn't make you lose exp (you lose gold instead). This is just a factor of time, just because it doesn't take as long to level because you die alot, it doesn't make the game less difficult to play well, it just takes less time.
No really . If i know they game , i am skilled i have died1 time . But the noob who is the same lvl as me , have died millions time , but he is still same lvl as i am ... isnt the same ... Maybe i dont like easy games ...
Who cares about gold , thats easy to make .
Simple math lad. Check this table (taken from mmogchart.com2004 -January number of subscribers
EQ2 - (Coming on Jule - 300.000 subs)
EQ1 - 450.000
CoX - 150.000
Final Fantasy 550.000
Star Wars Galaxies 300.000
Lineage 1 - 2.000.000
Linage 2 - 900.000
Asheron;s call 1 - 50.000
Now compare it with middle of year 2005: after wow came on market
EQ2 - 225.000 (-75.000)
EQ1 - 380.000 (-70.000)
CoX - 180.000 (+30.000)
Final Fantasy - 620.000 (+70.000)
Lineage 2 - 2.100.000 (+1.200.000)
Lineage 1 - 1.800.000 (-200.000)
Star Wars Galaxies 250.000 (-50.000)
Asheron's call 1 - 50.000 (0)
If you don't realize what does this means you should go back to high school. This shows that the number of players that left older games for wow is minimal (if we dont count lineage which mostly has asian players), and that majority of the people playing WOW are first-timers, basically mmorpg-newbies.
You're saying that if I don't accept your flawed logic at face value, I should go back to school? Well, guess I'm going back to school then because I don't accept your logic because it's flawed, and here is why:
1) You're using zero sum logic inappropriately. Many players are subscribed to several games. When my guild left for WoW, almost all of us kept our EQ accounts for a while. Bottom line; some people play multiple MMOs. Just because something new comes along doesn't mean you immediately cancel your current MMO, it could take a while, perhaps playing both games until you eventually become exclusively addicted to your new MMO. People form friendships, so immediately cutting yourself off from interacting in the world you met them in isn't high on the agenda of a lot of people.
2) Numbers tell you nothing about how many games those people have played. EQ has had millions of players over the years, people who have quit - who is to say many of those millions of players haven't gone to WoW? You simply can't use numbers to prove the point you're trying to make.
3) Much of WoWs culture and nomenclature is taken directly from EQ. That alone should tell you something about where a large portion of WoW players come from.
4) Exclusively EQ sites such as mobhunter.com (one of EQs most popular, created by Moorgard who later became an EQ2 dev), have switched focus to WoW. That site has no commercial interest, it's simply following the trend of where the oldschool EQers have gone.
5) Almost everyone these compares their favorite MMOs to WoW, for better or worse. How could they compare it if they have only played WoW exclusively? Are you trying to say that everyone who plays WoW and another game instantly goes to the other game? It's time you ask you to back up a statement with some reason for a change. I'm tired of stating the obvious.
Now, I guess I need to see if my old school uniform still fits after all these years.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Its pretty fun to read your last egocentric line of your every post that has an obvious feel like you had achieve something grandious.
Ill try to explain once again, if you cant take the simple logic, then god this discusion is pointless
Number of subscribers before wow : Lets say CCA 2.000.000 if we dont count Asia.
Number of subscribers after wow came on market, that are subscribers to other games: 1.800.000 CCA (lets accept that -200.000) left for wow.
WoW current subscriber number is a couple milions. Im not sure whats the exact number of EU+US (If we dont count asia). But lets assume its 2.500.000.
Are you telling me that those 2.300.000 people are what? Still all of them subscribers to their previous mmorpg? Or just part of it? How much. Is your argument coming from your personal experience or you can really support it with some statistical numbers.
REALITY CHECK
2004 -January number of subscribers
EQ2 - (Coming on Jule - 300.000 subs)
EQ1 - 450.000
CoX - 150.000
Final Fantasy 550.000
Star Wars Galaxies 300.000
Lineage 1 - 2.000.000
Linage 2 - 900.000
Asheron;s call 1 - 50.000
Now compare it with middle of year 2005: after wow came on market
EQ2 - 225.000 (-75.000)
EQ1 - 380.000 (-70.000)
CoX - 180.000 (+30.000)
Final Fantasy - 620.000 (+70.000)
Lineage 2 - 2.100.000 (+1.200.000)
Lineage 1 - 1.800.000 (-200.000)
Star Wars Galaxies 250.000 (-50.000)
Asheron's call 1 - 50.000 (0)
If you don't realize what does this means you should go back to high school. This shows that the number of players that left older games for wow is minimal (if we dont count lineage which mostly has asian players), and that majority of the people playing WOW are first-timers, basically mmorpg-newbies.
You're saying if I don't accept your flawed logic at face value, I should go back to school? Well, guess I'm going back to school then because I don't accept your logic because it's flawed, and here is why:
1) You're using zero sum logic inappropriately. Many players are subscribed to several games. When my guild left for WoW, almost all of us kept our EQ accounts for a while. Bottom line; some people play multiple MMOs. Just because something new comes along doesn't mean you immediately cancel your current MMO, it could take a while, perhaps playing both games until you eventually become exclusively addicted to your new MMO.
2) Numbers tell you nothing about how many games those people have played. EQ has had millions of players over the years, people who have quit - who is to say many of those millions of players haven't gone to WoW? You simply can't use numbers to prove the point you're trying to make.
3) Much of WoWs culture and nomenclature is taken directly rom EQ. Many concepts and terms are taken directly from that game.
Now, I guess I need to see if my old school uniform still fits after all these years.
Recant, I understand what you are saying but the overwhelming opinion from various forums and guilds of veteran players is that WoW is getting old and boring. I mean even Vanguard got some serious play from FoH even in it's horrible release state. They wanted it to work badly and why? Because WoW just doesn't do it for them. WoW doesn't really do it for most of the old MMO players. That isn't to say that WoW isn't a decent game, but the main problem is that WoW really isn't anything new. What Blizzard does so well is take ideas from other games and refine/polish them up and release them in their game. That allows them to have an extremely polished game that generally garners great reviews.Also just looking at the three reviewers that I personally usually look at:
IGN - WoW 91, TBC - 88
PC Gamer - WoW 91, TBC - 88
PC Gamer UK - WoW 93, TBC - 87
Yes those aren't profound drops in review, but according to metacritic WoW recieved an average of 93 and TBC 91. That does show that even critics are getting a little bored of the same.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Its pretty fun to read your last egocentric line of your every post that has an obvious feel like you had achieve something grandious.
Ill try to explain once again, if you cant take the simple logic, then god this discusion is pointless
Number of subscribers before wow : Lets say CCA 2.000.000 if we dont count Asia.
Number of subscribers after wow came on market, that are subscribers to other games: 1.800.000 CCA (lets accept that -200.000) left for wow.
WoW current subscriber number is a couple milions. Im not sure whats the exact number of EU+US (If we dont count asia). But lets assume its 2.500.000.
Are you telling me that those 2.300.000 people are what? Still all of them subscribers to their previous mmorpg? Or just part of it? How much. Is your argument coming from your personal experience or you can really support it with some statistical numbers.
I remember reading an article and of course I can't remember where now that stated the vast majority of WoW's NA/EU Subscriber base had never played an MMO before. The same thing happened with LOTRO as well. Not that it really matters.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
You might want to recheck my reply. I wasn't happy with it, and I was busily beefing it out it while you were writing your reply. It has further explanation as to why you're using flawed logic. But on to your reply anyway:
Ok lets get this clear; you claimed that the majority of players were MMO newbies. So when you ask if they're still subscribers to a previous MMO - it doesn't matter if they're still subscribed, it just matters that they were subscribed at one point.
That, and those 5 points I've given you lend considerable weight to the argument that in fact, it's very likely that a large proportion of WoW players come from other games.
I can't ask all 4 million or so EU/Western players, and 4.5 millon asian players individually if they've played another game. And neither can you. But you are the one calling us MMO newbies, you're making the bold blanket statement you come up with some reasoning. I've given you 5 reasons, you give me some.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Its pretty fun to read your last egocentric line of your every post that has an obvious feel like you had achieve something grandious.
Ill try to explain once again, if you cant take the simple logic, then god this discusion is pointless
Number of subscribers before wow : Lets say CCA 2.000.000 if we dont count Asia.
Number of subscribers after wow came on market, that are subscribers to other games: 1.800.000 CCA (lets accept that -200.000) left for wow.
WoW current subscriber number is a couple milions. Im not sure whats the exact number of EU+US (If we dont count asia). But lets assume its 2.500.000.
Are you telling me that those 2.300.000 people are what? Still all of them subscribers to their previous mmorpg? Or just part of it? How much. Is your argument coming from your personal experience or you can really support it with some statistical numbers.
I remember reading an article and of course I can't remember where now that stated the vast majority of WoW's NA/EU Subscriber base had never played an MMO before. The same thing happened with LOTRO as well. Not that it really matters.
Well it's pretty useless if you don't know where, for all we know you could be making it up, or that you misread it. I certainly don't believe you, so here's your glorious chance to prove me wrong. If it existed the chances are you can find it on Google, so off you go-a-searching.
Of course I don't expect you to find it, for whatever reason.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Simple math lad. Check this table (taken from mmogchart.com2004 -January number of subscribers
EQ2 - (Coming on Jule - 300.000 subs)
EQ1 - 450.000
CoX - 150.000
Final Fantasy 550.000
Star Wars Galaxies 300.000
Lineage 1 - 2.000.000
Linage 2 - 900.000
Asheron;s call 1 - 50.000
Now compare it with middle of year 2005: after wow came on market
EQ2 - 225.000 (-75.000)
EQ1 - 380.000 (-70.000)
CoX - 180.000 (+30.000)
Final Fantasy - 620.000 (+70.000)
Lineage 2 - 2.100.000 (+1.200.000)
Lineage 1 - 1.800.000 (-200.000)
Star Wars Galaxies 250.000 (-50.000)
Asheron's call 1 - 50.000 (0)
If you don't realize what does this means you should go back to high school. This shows that the number of players that left older games for wow is minimal (if we dont count lineage which mostly has asian players), and that majority of the people playing WOW are first-timers, basically mmorpg-newbies.
You're saying if I don't accept your flawed logic at face value, I should go back to school? Well, guess I'm going back to school then because I don't accept your logic because it's flawed, and here is why:
1) You're using zero sum logic inappropriately. Many players are subscribed to several games. When my guild left for WoW, almost all of us kept our EQ accounts for a while. Bottom line; some people play multiple MMOs. Just because something new comes along doesn't mean you immediately cancel your current MMO, it could take a while, perhaps playing both games until you eventually become exclusively addicted to your new MMO.
2) Numbers tell you nothing about how many games those people have played. EQ has had millions of players over the years, people who have quit - who is to say many of those millions of players haven't gone to WoW? You simply can't use numbers to prove the point you're trying to make.
3) Much of WoWs culture and nomenclature is taken directly rom EQ. Many concepts and terms are taken directly from that game.
Now, I guess I need to see if my old school uniform still fits after all these years.
Recant, I understand what you are saying but the overwhelming opinion from various forums and guilds of veteran players is that WoW is getting old and boring. I mean even Vanguard got some serious play from FoH even in it's horrible release state. They wanted it to work badly and why? Because WoW just doesn't do it for them. WoW doesn't really do it for most of the old MMO players. That isn't to say that WoW isn't a decent game, but the main problem is that WoW really isn't anything new. What Blizzard does so well is take ideas from other games and refine/polish them up and release them in their game. That allows them to have an extremely polished game that generally garners great reviews.Also just looking at the three reviewers that I personally usually look at:
IGN - WoW 91, TBC - 88
PC Gamer - WoW 91, TBC - 88
PC Gamer UK - WoW 93, TBC - 87
Yes those aren't profound drops in review, but according to metacritic WoW recieved an average of 93 and TBC 91. That does show that even critics are getting a little bored of the same.
Yes, and yet; other critics rated the expansion higher than the original game. I am getting really tired of copying and pasting but I assure you you'll find them on metacritic.
I don't argue that WoW, for many, is getting boring. I think that due to the sheer number of players in WoW makes the effect of mass boredom seem a lot worse than it actually is.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Ok, I've been at this for hours now. I've obviously got way to much time on my hands, but that's enough for now . I think I've made good points, I've gone further than anyone here today to back them up.
My main gripe here is that WoW is not a #19 game. There are not 18 MMOs better than World of Warcraft, come on! This site hates WoW, we know that, but a little bit of objectivity is all you need to see my point.
Try playing the devil's advocate for a sec; I used to hate WoW as much as you guys did, you know. Though you probably would never believe it, the amount I've been defending it today.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
2004 -January number of subscribers
EQ2 - (Coming on Jule - 300.000 subs)
EQ1 - 450.000
CoX - 150.000
Final Fantasy 550.000
Star Wars Galaxies 300.000
Lineage 1 - 2.000.000
Linage 2 - 900.000
Asheron;s call 1 - 50.000
Now compare it with middle of year 2005: after wow came on market
EQ2 - 225.000 (-75.000)
EQ1 - 380.000 (-70.000)
CoX - 180.000 (+30.000)
Final Fantasy - 620.000 (+70.000)
Lineage 2 - 2.100.000 (+1.200.000)
Lineage 1 - 1.800.000 (-200.000)
Star Wars Galaxies 250.000 (-50.000)
Asheron's call 1 - 50.000 (0)
If you don't realize what does this means you should go back to high school. This shows that the number of players that left older games for wow is minimal (if we dont count lineage which mostly has asian players), and that majority of the people playing WOW are first-timers, basically mmorpg-newbies.
You're saying if I don't accept your flawed logic at face value, I should go back to school? Well, guess I'm going back to school then because I don't accept your logic because it's flawed, and here is why:
1) You're using zero sum logic inappropriately. Many players are subscribed to several games. When my guild left for WoW, almost all of us kept our EQ accounts for a while. Bottom line; some people play multiple MMOs. Just because something new comes along doesn't mean you immediately cancel your current MMO, it could take a while, perhaps playing both games until you eventually become exclusively addicted to your new MMO.
2) Numbers tell you nothing about how many games those people have played. EQ has had millions of players over the years, people who have quit - who is to say many of those millions of players haven't gone to WoW? You simply can't use numbers to prove the point you're trying to make.
3) Much of WoWs culture and nomenclature is taken directly rom EQ. Many concepts and terms are taken directly from that game.
Now, I guess I need to see if my old school uniform still fits after all these years.
Recant, I understand what you are saying but the overwhelming opinion from various forums and guilds of veteran players is that WoW is getting old and boring. I mean even Vanguard got some serious play from FoH even in it's horrible release state. They wanted it to work badly and why? Because WoW just doesn't do it for them. WoW doesn't really do it for most of the old MMO players. That isn't to say that WoW isn't a decent game, but the main problem is that WoW really isn't anything new. What Blizzard does so well is take ideas from other games and refine/polish them up and release them in their game. That allows them to have an extremely polished game that generally garners great reviews.Also just looking at the three reviewers that I personally usually look at:
IGN - WoW 91, TBC - 88
PC Gamer - WoW 91, TBC - 88
PC Gamer UK - WoW 93, TBC - 87
Yes those aren't profound drops in review, but according to metacritic WoW recieved an average of 93 and TBC 91. That does show that even critics are getting a little bored of the same.
Yes, and yet; other critics rated the expansion higher than the original game. I am getting really tired of copying and pasting but I assure you you'll find them on metacritic.
I don't argue that WoW, for many, is getting boring. I think that due to the sheer number of players in WoW makes the effect of mass boredom seem a lot worse than it actually is.
I didn't say the problem was bad. I said I thought that WoW had seen it's peak and has started its fall in NA/EU. I would guess that by next year WoW will have less then 1 million subscribers in the NA/EU market (out of the current 2.5 to 3million) which would still make it a hugely successful MMO game. From all the rumbles on the "street" though I think we will see several of the new MMOs getting massive amounts of players (as long as they can release a quality product). LOTRO is a good example. Conservative estimates put them at around 350K subscriptions and as high as 1 million. We will see what happens if WAR launches as well as LOTRO did.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
The thing is that it isn't just this site. When I looked at metacritics even the people who posted their own ratings for TBC gave it a 6.5. 8.1 on 1up. 8.7 at gamespot. and 8.4 from IGN. Those are the sites I can think off the top of my head that let people set their own reviews. Each of those sites has a lower review score from the people when compared to the reviewer.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
I still think this entire argument is pointless. But just for the sake of stirring the pot. Recant, why aren't you playing WoW if it's so great? And what is with all the personal attacks against everyone? If you're going to argue about the game that's one thing, pointless, but it's one thing. But at least respect others' views and not attack them personally, that's just going to far.
WoW is a good game, I didnt want to play it at first, but all my RL friends, even ones i havnt seen for like 7 yrs, play it. so i tried it out and love it. over the couple of yrs, ive quit like 3 times and come back, possibly addiction. but its not a bad game, it has cartoon graphics, but whatever, it runs great on low end comps. I dont know why you care that it is in 18th place, but all MMO's on this site are placed into categories by the ratings of members of this community such as yourself... Most people in this this forum are all about MMO and being such, they tend to go for eith A:Graphics, B: Community, C: hype and whats others think of it. WoW just doesnt appeal to people coming come classic MMO's that have been on this site for along time, and probly never will, so although I like WoW, i can see why it does not deserve a top rating for this site. nor does it matter.
i was checking the game list and see which game is in which place and it seems Wow is in 19th place..Planet Side is higher then wow... i guess wow just got boreding or something. and loseing funess!
Frankly, I'm surprised Plantside hasn't went the way of Auto Assault...talk about a game on an IV drip and ready to t
administer defib...
This site is contains a more experienced playerbase that started playing MMO's long before WoW came out, to the rest of the MMO world, WoW is a joke and a breaze. If this was a site for newbies and kids, then WoW would be ranked higher.
WoW is great.................if your 12 or new to the genre
LOL your thinking is exactly backwards. WOW is for adults , even tho many kids play it. I will even Explain WHY.First off I'll start with myself as a example and the guild I'm in.
I'm a 32 year old gamer in RPG genre since 1981 when I was first introduced to D&D, as video games came out I played all the various RPG titles that came out both dice and video, still to this day my 3 favotire games of all time are in fact Final Fantasy 7, Knights of the old republic, and White wolf's werewolf:apocolyps (dice).
As for MMO's I was a pub 4 Star wars galaxies vet, played almost 3 full years non-stop every day 6 hours a day on average and up to 18 on my days off work. I was a hard core SWG player , 4 accounts 1 of which was a Pre-CU JEdi. When SWG - was crushed. I wondered about, EQ2 (6 months) , RF on-line (1 year). tried a few "hardcore pvp games" tried the hardcore PVE games.. even tried Sim type games, did ALOT of beta testing!
About 6 months back one of my Co-workers and RL friends asked me to try WOW, mostly just to hang out with them and have fun.
I was like yeah sure nothing better to do. Up until this point WoW just never appealed to me, cause at a glance it does look , basic and rudementary and probably a kiddies game with kiddie gfx.
What I found totally shocked me. It was a balanced, complete package, bug free, fast fast customer support, massive population compared to ANY game I seen. weekly updates, monthly patches , now yearly expansions. optional PVP, in terms of PVP servers for those that want to be hardcore types and PVE servers with PVP toggle for more quest type players.
I joined the guild and became warmly welcomed into a global community of gamers accross the USA and Australia all in there late 20's and early 30's. In fact there is only maybe a handful of like 15 or so in this guild of 370 + members that are under age of 17 and i think half of them are teens that game with there parents.
Now with all that said, the reason why WOW appeals to most of us working class adults is a few reasons.
1) its non time demanding, I dont have to be logged in 24/7 just to survive gamewise
2) Its a set of quests, NPC , leveling, get gear, weapons, fight dragons. Its what D&D was to us orginal gamers.
3) the PVP despite what many say.. if you play all classes like myself, it is well balanced if you know how to use your class in its role. I suspect this is where many of the leet kids actually Hate wow PVP, cause you CAN NOT 1 shot ppl near your level you just wont. and with out that mindless overpowering found in other games, there to lazy to use real player skill and team work, and it makes them mad and they bash WOW for it.
4) for us its a fun, its a game, its a hobby, WE DO NOT WANT A FULLTIME JOB. we have that in RL, we have taxes, war, and death all ready in RL as adults that we deal with, we have enough responsibility and obligations all ready, we WANT a GAME that is fun , relaxing and we can be a orc, elf, troll gnome in a fantasy world wher ewe fight demons and dragons.
What it comes too is its a casual game, you can be equal to the elite no life gamer even if you only play a few hours a day, those elitist are the ones that bash this game, or the kids that want a easy I win FPS style PVP button, or I see alot of ppl bash on WOW that have never even tried the game, just blindly hate it cause its the most popular on the block and there feeling that teen rebellion issue and refuse to accept anything the masses do.
WOW is a adults game, its for fun, its non intensive. you can actually be good in this game and have a full time RL job, and a social life and still be competive with out dedicating your life to it.
Thats why more adults like wow then Kids to be very very honest.
Miataka (+many sub variation of that)
~WoW (Kael'Thas, USA)
MiaTaka
~ RF On-line (Fire Server)
-Mia- takahashi
~SWG (Europe-chimaera)
Miataki Valeinca
~EQ 2 (everfrost)
MiaTaka Soyinka
~Second Life
Surely if I'd be thinking about graphics for Pokemon Online, WoW engine would suit it best. I can't understand one thing, why does all the 30+aged people try to convice others that cartoons are for adults.
Seriously, I agree WoW IS a casual game with no depth, so I wonder why the wiser part of wow population doesnt start to play some other game where actually end-game is not consisted of just an item grind. I have nothing against an exaggarated example of materialism, I am materialist by myself but in real world. Materialism in virtual world is basically spiritualism.
REALITY CHECK
And second it means that random mechanics behind the game are much more affecting gameplay then anything else. Gear means a huge difference, and no skill can balance out gear differences.
REALITY CHECK
Yes I know its such a strange notion that games should be fun, balanced, and fair. Sorry if you have no life and dedicated 22 hours a day to the game you wont be better then the guy or girl playing 4 hours a day, you will end up at the same point, Its called fairness.
I know people get that silly Idea in there head that if they sacraifce sooo much of themself to something like a video game they get this special privalges that no one else gets.
TBH if you really think that seek help, professional help, with medication. No one should live life through a game
GAME= FUN anything else you are delusional. its a game, not a way of life.
Miataka (+many sub variation of that)
~WoW (Kael'Thas, USA)
MiaTaka
~ RF On-line (Fire Server)
-Mia- takahashi
~SWG (Europe-chimaera)
Miataki Valeinca
~EQ 2 (everfrost)
MiaTaka Soyinka
~Second Life
I don't know why everyone takes this stuff so seriously. It's no different I guess than when you talk to a sports freak about last nights game and they are all like "yeah, we kicked their butts last night," or"man, that stupid ref needs glasses, OUR touchdown should have counted!!"
Um..er...yeah.
First off...you don't own the game/ you don't play on that team...its not yours, its just a stupid GAME.
On the other hand, what you see a lot of is people bashing other peoples hobbies, just because its not theirs. People tend to get offended at that.
Personally, I don't like WoW. Does that mean its a bad game or waste of pixels? No. It just means I don't like it.
Now, if you like WoW, does that mean that everyone else hates you? Well, yes...j/k, lol. The answer is no, or at least they shouldn't. But it still doesn't mean their opinion is wrong, it's just different than yours.
Now, can't we all dance around the maypole and sing about shiny happy people?
No? bah! Didn't think so. Ok, lets all load up an FPS and settle this once and for all!! grrrr!
LOL
D.
But no , as it is...
I find it silly that Im in a WOW forum on a defensive. If someone hates the game WHY do they read WOW forums, do they somehow think tha there Opionon will effect ALL of that love teh game and makes us all quit playing just because I read a post on some form by some no name guy who's opinion I could careless if they exisited or not said he didnt like the GAME me and my friends are having fun with.
really Trolls need to find a game that makes them happy and go there and read there forums, and all pat each other on the back for finding the game they love.
It just amazes me how many idiots go out of there way , what, to basically get any knd of attention they can. doing stuff like posting how much they hate a game in the forum for it.
God if only parent would just spend a lil more time with ther kids we wont end up with these emotional baggage attention seeking GAME NAZI's that feel they must spread the word on why they hate something OBVIOUSLY millions of us love. Just to get ANYONE they can to notice them for a second, even if its in a negative way.
Miataka (+many sub variation of that)
~WoW (Kael'Thas, USA)
MiaTaka
~ RF On-line (Fire Server)
-Mia- takahashi
~SWG (Europe-chimaera)
Miataki Valeinca
~EQ 2 (everfrost)
MiaTaka Soyinka
~Second Life
I am realy sorry
that WOW is going down in ratings... when i begined to play MMOs I started with WoW and i must say it was awesome for me.
i played for like 1,5 year, and after TBC i quit, it' was boring,
so i decided to change game, But This game is realy cool
Its good to see, and I hope mature postive posts become common.
I myself am still having fun in WoW, waiting for Age of Conan and Gods & heroes.
Miataka (+many sub variation of that)
~WoW (Kael'Thas, USA)
MiaTaka
~ RF On-line (Fire Server)
-Mia- takahashi
~SWG (Europe-chimaera)
Miataki Valeinca
~EQ 2 (everfrost)
MiaTaka Soyinka
~Second Life
I think its only logical to assume that due to the giant population of WoW, it probably has more ex players than any other games. Those people come here, looking for more mmo goodness, and review WoW. Generally when you leave a game, theres a reason, hence the lower rating.
On the subject of average game player age, maybe it is high twenties, but i would guess that it would be lower for MMOs. One thing bugs me though. Those are NA surveys its not taking into account the huge number of gamers in europe and asia. im sure if you added asia into the mix the average would drop alot. If we are talking NA only, we have to start talking about WoW having 3 million subs.
Well because we are self-obsessive creeps with real life that starts and ends at a cup of coffey in a nearby coffey-house. Usually paying more MMORPG at the same time so we dont get bored during maintance days. In additon we surely have some illusionary feel that we are the best at what we are doing and that our opinions really matter.
REALITY CHECK