I know from experience that CCP hands out short term bans without much forethought and they have a nasty habit of jumping to conclusions. I got a 4 day ban last year for mislabelling something I sold on escrow. I was a noob and didn't have a clue what I was doing so I thought it rather harsh to say the least to ban someone for noobism. Especially seeing there were no clear instructions for selling on escrow, the little instruction there was included many abbreviations without a glossary. I was so pi**ed off I cancelled and didn't play for another 8 months.
Mind you freezing an account while investigating possible fraud/hacking is justified. I have heard of it happening on EQ2 as well and I imagine that other games and organisations would do the same under the circumstances.
If CCP froze the account. Investigated the event in a timely manner. Reactivated the account. = Professional approach with no harm done. Fair Play.
I used to visit this site a lot however in recent years it has become the home of negative forum posts, illogical opinions and tantrums so I visit less often.
Played or Beta'd: UO / DAOC / Horizons / EQ2 / DDO / EVE / Archlord / PirateKingsOnline / Tabula Rasa / LOTRO / AOC / Champions / Darkfall / Mortal Online / DCUO / Rift / STO / SWTOR / TSW
I dunno, I'm new to EVE so I'm not sure how feasible this is... but if a major theft like this occurred, I'd marshal all resources to hunt the offender down to the rest of his days. No corporation or alliance would be permitted to harbor him, we'd go to war immediately, both in Empire and free space against anyone who harbored the person.... Hell, I might just offer a ransom for the people he joined to grief him..... people will do almost anything for enough dough..and its not like they can really trust him not to steal from them....
Yep you can all do that.
Top tip tho if he joined another corp warn there CEO and give him a few days to boot the thief first before war declaring.
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
dunno how to explain my point, i will try the bestt way
for me this is like "hey u get on jail until we check your home, because some neighbors see you whit allot of money and they think u sell drugs"
if the role are removed instant ok he cant steal more
for me if no proof for ban and get baned is unfair
i dont like that preventing/damage control (remember me what bush made)
edit: the rumor say that bob made petitin the to get time to change POS passwords
Nope... they lock the account out so that the accused cannot launder the goods while the investigation is ongoing. Through use of alt accounts a true hacker could clean out a corp and very quickly move items to alt accounts and then sell them by the time the investigation was completed, thus causing MAJOR problems for CCP. Thus they ban first, investigate and then lift the ban afterwards. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it wrong.
BTW this was one of the biggest corp thefts in EVE history... over 300 billion so far and counting. A very well planned and executed heist... in the grand scheme of things it's probably a drop in the bucket for BOB but still very very well planned and this guy is going to be rich as sin if he can get it out of Delve.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
I dunno, I'm new to EVE so I'm not sure how feasible this is... but if a major theft like this occurred, I'd marshal all resources to hunt the offender down to the rest of his days. No corporation or alliance would be permitted to harbor him, we'd go to war immediately, both in Empire and free space against anyone who harbored the person.... Hell, I might just offer a ransom for the people he joined to grief him..... people will do almost anything for enough dough..and its not like they can really trust him not to steal from them....
Yep you can all do that.
Top tip tho if he joined another corp warn there CEO and give him a few days to boot the thief first before war declaring.
Yeah we used to get warnings from other CEO's about people that tried to join us, there where a few potentially corpthiefs trying to clean us out .. ofcourse that would not do anything to a freelancer corp we really did not have much items in the hangars, maybe some ammo and some frigs but that's about it.
Ofcourse we also had some bpo's but they where locked down... and I had in my own private some nice bpo's as well (still do I suppose).
Anything that hurts BoB is good... however I still belive that CCP should have deducted the isk BoB potentially made from those BPO's they got from T20 should have been deducted to made things right even that it would not be much.
Even that I like this heist, I still feel this is not enough for me to rejoin EVE... I stand firm on that SirMolle got to go before I can join because of his breach of EULA.
Oh and ofcourse that BoB should get deducted the isk they made from the BPO's but it is good to read about these things as well.
Anything that hurts BoB is good... however I still belive that CCP should have deducted the isk BoB potentially made from those BPO's they got from T20 should have been deducted to made things right even that it would not be much.
Even that I like this heist, I still feel this is not enough for me to rejoin EVE... I stand firm on that SirMolle got to go before I can join because of his breach of EULA.
Oh and ofcourse that BoB should get deducted the isk they made from the BPO's but it is good to read about these things as well.
Well i think it would be a bit hard to deduct isk when the isk is help in items brought by legitamate players and stuff.
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
Anything that hurts BoB is good... however I still belive that CCP should have deducted the isk BoB potentially made from those BPO's they got from T20 should have been deducted to made things right even that it would not be much.
Even that I like this heist, I still feel this is not enough for me to rejoin EVE... I stand firm on that SirMolle got to go before I can join because of his breach of EULA.
Oh and ofcourse that BoB should get deducted the isk they made from the BPO's but it is good to read about these things as well.
Well i think it would be a bit hard to deduct isk when the isk is help in items brought by legitamate players and stuff.
I'm talking about the tech 2 BPO's that Evolution (belive it was them to be honest) recived from T20 that had created those bpo's illegally... and they where not removed before many months after he got outed.
They only removed the bpo's never deducted isk from the corp/alliance because in their own words they have said they can't really tell how much isk there is talk about but it can be alot... or not.
Anything that hurts BoB is good... however I still belive that CCP should have deducted the isk BoB potentially made from those BPO's they got from T20 should have been deducted to made things right even that it would not be much.
Even that I like this heist, I still feel this is not enough for me to rejoin EVE... I stand firm on that SirMolle got to go before I can join because of his breach of EULA.
Oh and ofcourse that BoB should get deducted the isk they made from the BPO's but it is good to read about these things as well.
Well i think it would be a bit hard to deduct isk when the isk is help in items brought by legitamate players and stuff.
I'm talking about the tech 2 BPO's that Evolution (belive it was them to be honest) recived from T20 that had created those bpo's illegally... and they where not removed before many months after he got outed.
They only removed the bpo's never deducted isk from the corp/alliance because in their own words they have said they can't really tell how much isk there is talk about but it can be alot... or not.
Well looking at what most of the bluprints were it wont be a huge ammount really a few bilion isk at most. The only bluprint that was worth anyhting at all was that single ship bluprint and even that would only provide so much cash as they would have dont material reserch on it first to reduce the build costs and therfore increase profits.
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
Originally posted by METALDRAG0N Well i think it would be a bit hard to deduct isk when the isk is help in items brought by legitamate players and stuff.
I'm talking about the tech 2 BPO's that Evolution (belive it was them to be honest) recived from T20 that had created those bpo's illegally... and they where not removed before many months after he got outed.
They only removed the bpo's never deducted isk from the corp/alliance because in their own words they have said they can't really tell how much isk there is talk about but it can be alot... or not.
Well looking at what most of the bluprints were it wont be a huge ammount really a few bilion isk at most. The only bluprint that was worth anyhting at all was that single ship bluprint and even that would only provide so much cash as they would have dont material reserch on it first to reduce the build costs and therfore increase profits.
I don't think you understand, it is not what the bpo's are worth.. I agree they are probably not worth much (got or had 2 tech 2 ammo bpo's myself)... but what they generated by isk to the alliance/corp... the only rightful thing would be to deduct them a sum from what they might have given them.
BTW ... I had to repair my freighter for 60 million isk that was shot up by some BoB pets/alts should I have got isk back because this might have been ammo made from these bpo's ?
Cosy. Lets imagine that the account was hacked when the goods was stolen and the gm´s waited to ban the account till after the investigation was finished.
Then the thief would have had plenty of time to tranfer the goods/isk to other accounts, sell them or do whatever he wants to it by that time. Then the gm´s would have to check every tranfer that char had to other chars and check that chars tranfers and so on to get back the stole items and so, that would take days so its very logical that they ban the account untill the investigation had finished to see if there were any breakes on the eula and then unbann him if there werent any (like in this case).
If it was the case that the account was banned they could look forward to days of checking logs on multiple accounts instad of just banning him for a period and when done tranfer all the goods back to the owner in a few mins..
Its called commen sence.
But looking at everything you post on these forums I doubt you know what that word means..
BTW ... I had to repair my freighter for 60 million isk that was shot up by some BoB pets/alts should I have got isk back because this might have been ammo made from these bpo's ?
Err no
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
Because thats what they did. They froze all of his assets during the investigation. The method that they used was a temporary ban from logging in to prevent access his account/assets. Freezing the account/assets is what they did the Ban was the method of freezing the assets. My guess is they could have locked the items that were stolen but it would more and likely not have been in a GMs power as well as time consuming depending on how they have to do that. So the method they chose to freeze the stolen assets was to ban the account until the investigation was completed.
To answer somebody else question on why this is different has nothing to do with the people that were stolen from. But the fact that a inactive corp member who was inactive for a while suddenly became active and ripped off the corp. That alone would have made me suspicious of possible account hacking. Glad it wasn't and nice haul for the guy who did it.
Someone put a low end estimated value of the items taken at 20,000ish USD useing a isk to time card conversion! If thats not a typo and the person didn't mean 2,000 USD, holy crap. I honestly don't know what the average for GTC's are, I have not played for quite some time. But dam...
If you are cought with a million or two in all twenty dollar bills, then you best bet your butt you are getting cuffed until they can figure out if it is legit or not. I dealt with it at the airport on a regular basis as it was part of my job in the past. It is the way things work. So yes, this is not much more different in real life if you truly want to compare it in such a way. Although, I must admit comparing anything with this game in such a way as you have is an ignorant and desperate attempt in your obvious crusade against CCP. Get over yourself and quit making posts like this. They are getting really old.
1)Got suspended when someone other than the account holder petitioned for a lapse in account control/hacking/whatever. Frankly, no one should have that ability besides the account holder.
2)Transferring large sums of isk causes a flag. That sucks. It's supposed to be some kind of response against macroers. Let's be honest here though. EVE is about making isk in a lot more clever ways that shooting dumb NPCs. Were it not for the nasty NPCs and their bounties, macroers would not even be able to farm large quantities of isk to sell in the first place. I call this the Blizzardification of CCP.
Other than that, CCP resolved the issue relatively quickly. I don't care who the involved parties were though. If CCP had interrupted a carefully planned theft operation halfway through, that would be cheating against the absconders with devhax. That would be a clear instance of marginally inadvertent favoritism.
Doesn't matter how much you personally dislike them, corporate saboteurs are a legitimate and even essential part of the game. Interrupting months of work with a few minutes of mod clicks just ruins the stories people create in EVE. They cannot just click the undo button on a target corporation's awareness, so unfair. I can't see a reason to validate the excuse that it's faster, or uses less moderator time. They should redesign the economy if it is continuously producing circumstances that overextend employee resources.
Lets get things clear because a lot of you have been misled.
First this was not a well planed scheme. This was a not a alt of someone who infiltrated evolution. This was not a miscommunication within the evolution corp that allowed this player to have access to these goods. This player was a friend, old old time evolution player and he at a spur of a moment or if planed wouldn’t be more than a few weeks in advance decided to go ahead with the act. What was interesting is that he stated that this was planed over a year ago. Well why would he have planed this a year ago when back then bpo's were no locked down? If he did indeed plan it then evolution would have been shot if he had gone ahead of his plan earlier and taken the bpo's with him. This is where the slight outroar is coming from. This player wasn't a spy, he was just a friend that with no warning, with no real reason decided to do this. It would of felt a lot better by evolution players if this was not the case, that this was spy because then you say to yourself 'well we were fairly done' instead its 'I just dont understand' type of a thing.
Also how you do you not know that sirmolle wasn’t temp banned for a breach of rules? One of you sound like you know for a fact he was not banned at all.
Also bob are known not to sell goods for the market, its all inner house so no isk was made by bob from the t20 incident. Just remember this was one player who did this. Not BoB. Stop pointing at BoB being cheaters just like the op was trying to explain, that CCP are helping BoB out in his own words by banning this persons account. Tisk Tisk
Finally there is a strong possibility that a member(s) of evolution would have petition that players account for hacking because that person was considered a long time friend. It did not seem right that this person would do this. Think if a friend in your corp, a friend thats been there since the start for 3 plus years stole everything from your corp that wasnt locked down. You trying to say that you would rule out the possibility that this person account wasnt hacked. Its CCP's policy to ban first then investigate to prevent further complications.
So again, dont make out that this another CCP helping BoB threads. A lot was stolen, a players account was investigate, found not guilty, player has access to his account and everyone moves on.
Comments
I know from experience that CCP hands out short term bans without much forethought and they have a nasty habit of jumping to conclusions. I got a 4 day ban last year for mislabelling something I sold on escrow. I was a noob and didn't have a clue what I was doing so I thought it rather harsh to say the least to ban someone for noobism. Especially seeing there were no clear instructions for selling on escrow, the little instruction there was included many abbreviations without a glossary. I was so pi**ed off I cancelled and didn't play for another 8 months.
Mind you freezing an account while investigating possible fraud/hacking is justified. I have heard of it happening on EQ2 as well and I imagine that other games and organisations would do the same under the circumstances.
If CCP froze the account. Investigated the event in a timely manner. Reactivated the account. = Professional approach with no harm done.
Fair Play.
I used to visit this site a lot however in recent years it has become the home of negative forum posts, illogical opinions and tantrums so I visit less often.
Played or Beta'd: UO / DAOC / Horizons / EQ2 / DDO / EVE / Archlord / PirateKingsOnline / Tabula Rasa / LOTRO / AOC / Champions / Darkfall / Mortal Online / DCUO / Rift / STO / SWTOR / TSW
Top tip tho if he joined another corp warn there CEO and give him a few days to boot the thief first before war declaring.
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand
Nope... they lock the account out so that the accused cannot launder the goods while the investigation is ongoing. Through use of alt accounts a true hacker could clean out a corp and very quickly move items to alt accounts and then sell them by the time the investigation was completed, thus causing MAJOR problems for CCP. Thus they ban first, investigate and then lift the ban afterwards. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it wrong.
BTW this was one of the biggest corp thefts in EVE history... over 300 billion so far and counting. A very well planned and executed heist... in the grand scheme of things it's probably a drop in the bucket for BOB but still very very well planned and this guy is going to be rich as sin if he can get it out of Delve.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Well if it hurts BoB....Good
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand
Top tip tho if he joined another corp warn there CEO and give him a few days to boot the thief first before war declaring.
Yeah we used to get warnings from other CEO's about people that tried to join us, there where a few potentially corpthiefs trying to clean us out .. ofcourse that would not do anything to a freelancer corp
we really did not have much items in the hangars, maybe some ammo and some frigs but that's about it.
Ofcourse we also had some bpo's but they where locked down... and I had in my own private some nice bpo's as well (still do I suppose).
Anything that hurts BoB is good... however I still belive that CCP should have deducted the isk BoB potentially made from those BPO's they got from T20 should have been deducted to made things right even that it would not be much.
Even that I like this heist, I still feel this is not enough for me to rejoin EVE... I stand firm on that SirMolle got to go before I can join because of his breach of EULA.
Oh and ofcourse that BoB should get deducted the isk they made from the BPO's but it is good to read about these things as well.
Anything that hurts BoB is good... however I still belive that CCP should have deducted the isk BoB potentially made from those BPO's they got from T20 should have been deducted to made things right even that it would not be much.
Even that I like this heist, I still feel this is not enough for me to rejoin EVE... I stand firm on that SirMolle got to go before I can join because of his breach of EULA.
Oh and ofcourse that BoB should get deducted the isk they made from the BPO's but it is good to read about these things as well.
Well i think it would be a bit hard to deduct isk when the isk is help in items brought by legitamate players and stuff.
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand
BestSigEver :P
Anything that hurts BoB is good... however I still belive that CCP should have deducted the isk BoB potentially made from those BPO's they got from T20 should have been deducted to made things right even that it would not be much.
Even that I like this heist, I still feel this is not enough for me to rejoin EVE... I stand firm on that SirMolle got to go before I can join because of his breach of EULA.
Oh and ofcourse that BoB should get deducted the isk they made from the BPO's but it is good to read about these things as well.
Well i think it would be a bit hard to deduct isk when the isk is help in items brought by legitamate players and stuff.
I'm talking about the tech 2 BPO's that Evolution (belive it was them to be honest) recived from T20 that had created those bpo's illegally... and they where not removed before many months after he got outed.They only removed the bpo's never deducted isk from the corp/alliance because in their own words they have said they can't really tell how much isk there is talk about but it can be alot... or not.
Anything that hurts BoB is good... however I still belive that CCP should have deducted the isk BoB potentially made from those BPO's they got from T20 should have been deducted to made things right even that it would not be much.
Even that I like this heist, I still feel this is not enough for me to rejoin EVE... I stand firm on that SirMolle got to go before I can join because of his breach of EULA.
Oh and ofcourse that BoB should get deducted the isk they made from the BPO's but it is good to read about these things as well.
Well i think it would be a bit hard to deduct isk when the isk is help in items brought by legitamate players and stuff.
I'm talking about the tech 2 BPO's that Evolution (belive it was them to be honest) recived from T20 that had created those bpo's illegally... and they where not removed before many months after he got outed.They only removed the bpo's never deducted isk from the corp/alliance because in their own words they have said they can't really tell how much isk there is talk about but it can be alot... or not.
Well looking at what most of the bluprints were it wont be a huge ammount really a few bilion isk at most. The only bluprint that was worth anyhting at all was that single ship bluprint and even that would only provide so much cash as they would have dont material reserch on it first to reduce the build costs and therfore increase profits.
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand
They only removed the bpo's never deducted isk from the corp/alliance because in their own words they have said they can't really tell how much isk there is talk about but it can be alot... or not.
Well looking at what most of the bluprints were it wont be a huge ammount really a few bilion isk at most. The only bluprint that was worth anyhting at all was that single ship bluprint and even that would only provide so much cash as they would have dont material reserch on it first to reduce the build costs and therfore increase profits.
I don't think you understand, it is not what the bpo's are worth.. I agree they are probably not worth much (got or had 2 tech 2 ammo bpo's myself)... but what they generated by isk to the alliance/corp... the only rightful thing would be to deduct them a sum from what they might have given them.
BTW ... I had to repair my freighter for 60 million isk that was shot up by some BoB pets/alts should I have got isk back because this might have been ammo made from these bpo's ?
Cosy. Lets imagine that the account was hacked when the goods was stolen and the gm´s waited to ban the account till after the investigation was finished.
Then the thief would have had plenty of time to tranfer the goods/isk to other accounts, sell them or do whatever he wants to it by that time. Then the gm´s would have to check every tranfer that char had to other chars and check that chars tranfers and so on to get back the stole items and so, that would take days so its very logical that they ban the account untill the investigation had finished to see if there were any breakes on the eula and then unbann him if there werent any (like in this case).
If it was the case that the account was banned they could look forward to days of checking logs on multiple accounts instad of just banning him for a period and when done tranfer all the goods back to the owner in a few mins..
Its called commen sence.
But looking at everything you post on these forums I doubt you know what that word means..
Err no
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand
Because thats what they did. They froze all of his assets during the investigation. The method that they used was a temporary ban from logging in to prevent access his account/assets. Freezing the account/assets is what they did the Ban was the method of freezing the assets. My guess is they could have locked the items that were stolen but it would more and likely not have been in a GMs power as well as time consuming depending on how they have to do that. So the method they chose to freeze the stolen assets was to ban the account until the investigation was completed.To answer somebody else question on why this is different has nothing to do with the people that were stolen from. But the fact that a inactive corp member who was inactive for a while suddenly became active and ripped off the corp. That alone would have made me suspicious of possible account hacking. Glad it wasn't and nice haul for the guy who did it.
Wow....
Someone put a low end estimated value of the items taken at 20,000ish USD useing a isk to time card conversion! If thats not a typo and the person didn't mean 2,000 USD, holy crap. I honestly don't know what the average for GTC's are, I have not played for quite some time. But dam...
To the OP:
If you are cought with a million or two in all twenty dollar bills, then you best bet your butt you are getting cuffed until they can figure out if it is legit or not. I dealt with it at the airport on a regular basis as it was part of my job in the past. It is the way things work. So yes, this is not much more different in real life if you truly want to compare it in such a way. Although, I must admit comparing anything with this game in such a way as you have is an ignorant and desperate attempt in your obvious crusade against CCP. Get over yourself and quit making posts like this. They are getting really old.
Only 2 things I find distasteful in this policy:
1)Got suspended when someone other than the account holder petitioned for a lapse in account control/hacking/whatever. Frankly, no one should have that ability besides the account holder.
2)Transferring large sums of isk causes a flag. That sucks. It's supposed to be some kind of response against macroers. Let's be honest here though. EVE is about making isk in a lot more clever ways that shooting dumb NPCs. Were it not for the nasty NPCs and their bounties, macroers would not even be able to farm large quantities of isk to sell in the first place. I call this the Blizzardification of CCP.
Other than that, CCP resolved the issue relatively quickly. I don't care who the involved parties were though. If CCP had interrupted a carefully planned theft operation halfway through, that would be cheating against the absconders with devhax. That would be a clear instance of marginally inadvertent favoritism.
Doesn't matter how much you personally dislike them, corporate saboteurs are a legitimate and even essential part of the game. Interrupting months of work with a few minutes of mod clicks just ruins the stories people create in EVE. They cannot just click the undo button on a target corporation's awareness, so unfair. I can't see a reason to validate the excuse that it's faster, or uses less moderator time. They should redesign the economy if it is continuously producing circumstances that overextend employee resources.
Lets get things clear because a lot of you have been misled.
First this was not a well planed scheme. This was a not a alt of someone who infiltrated evolution. This was not a miscommunication within the evolution corp that allowed this player to have access to these goods. This player was a friend, old old time evolution player and he at a spur of a moment or if planed wouldn’t be more than a few weeks in advance decided to go ahead with the act. What was interesting is that he stated that this was planed over a year ago. Well why would he have planed this a year ago when back then bpo's were no locked down? If he did indeed plan it then evolution would have been shot if he had gone ahead of his plan earlier and taken the bpo's with him. This is where the slight outroar is coming from. This player wasn't a spy, he was just a friend that with no warning, with no real reason decided to do this. It would of felt a lot better by evolution players if this was not the case, that this was spy because then you say to yourself 'well we were fairly done' instead its 'I just dont understand' type of a thing.
Also how you do you not know that sirmolle wasn’t temp banned for a breach of rules? One of you sound like you know for a fact he was not banned at all.
Also bob are known not to sell goods for the market, its all inner house so no isk was made by bob from the t20 incident. Just remember this was one player who did this. Not BoB. Stop pointing at BoB being cheaters just like the op was trying to explain, that CCP are helping BoB out in his own words by banning this persons account. Tisk Tisk
Finally there is a strong possibility that a member(s) of evolution would have petition that players account for hacking because that person was considered a long time friend. It did not seem right that this person would do this. Think if a friend in your corp, a friend thats been there since the start for 3 plus years stole everything from your corp that wasnt locked down. You trying to say that you would rule out the possibility that this person account wasnt hacked. Its CCP's policy to ban first then investigate to prevent further complications.
So again, dont make out that this another CCP helping BoB threads. A lot was stolen, a players account was investigate, found not guilty, player has access to his account and everyone moves on.