Not that my opinion really means much as I have not decided to purchase this game yet. But as an outsider looking in I would say one other check or balance that should be added is a cap on the amount of real money you can spend in a month to prevent wild fluctuations and shifts in power.
Not that my opinion really means much as I have not decided to purchase this game yet. But as an outsider looking in I would say one other check or balance that should be added is a cap on the amount of real money you can spend in a month to prevent wild fluctuations and shifts in power.
They promised there would be a cap before release but never committed to one because the game was designed around the revenue system, to make them as much money as possible.
Nope. They are trying to finish guild halls right now, which will allow players to claim their own one square kilometer of the world. Ballistics will probably be quite a ways off, at least six months to a year.
Nope. They are trying to finish guild halls right now, which will allow players to claim their own one square kilometer of the world. Ballistics will probably be quite a ways off, at least six months to a year.
When Escalation is done they will work on Balistics. We have been getting great updates every monday, wednesday, and friday KFR estimates Guildhalls will be buildable by this coming weekend, after all this escalation stuff is done Balistics are the next thing on RB's list.
Most ALL mmo's have this stuff when they first come out,archery is almost a complete must.Even completely f2p mmo's that are as we all know are crap,have archery,I have never even HEARD of a mmo of the genre not having archery. I forgot about this game as soon as I heard how incomplete and buggy it is.And please,if you are going to flame me,at least do it right,none of the famous,Vepgenus,"Don't Let the door ihit you on the way out,(insert retarded smiley face)" posts,and please be clever too.
Originally posted by CapnSwallows Most ALL mmo's have this stuff when they first come out,archery is almost a complete must.Even completely f2p mmo's that are as we all know are crap,have archery,I have never even HEARD of a mmo of the genre not having archery. I forgot about this game as soon as I heard how incomplete and buggy it is.And please,if you are going to flame me,at least do it right,none of the famous,Vepgenus,"Don't Let the door ihit you on the way out,(insert retarded smiley face)" posts,and please be clever too.
I agree and disagree with you, name an mmo that has come about complete? Now also name an MMO thats out that has this type of sandbox in it where so many things need to be balanced and opened up?
Its common for MMO's not to put out things right on release. Im not trying to defend RB I think they are doing a crap job. I think they have 3 people working on a game that needs many more. The 3 are working their butts off, but is that the buyers fault that they only have 3 people working on the game?
EQ PVP was added later. DAoC Housing was added later, as was battle grounds, and siege weapons.
I can name many things to any MMO that was added later. Dont act as if MMO's dont do that. Sure Archery is normally in a game on release, but how often is that game a sandbox type game? Also how often is archery broke? Every MMO's Ive played had Archery way overpowered, then nerfed then overpowered then nerfed.
Most ALL mmo's have this stuff when they first come out,archery is almost a complete must.Even completely f2p mmo's that are as we all know are crap,have archery,I have never even HEARD of a mmo of the genre not having archery. I forgot about this game as soon as I heard how incomplete and buggy it is.And please,if you are going to flame me,at least do it right,none of the famous,Vepgenus,"Don't Let the door ihit you on the way out,(insert retarded smiley face)" posts,and please be clever too.
I agree and disagree with you, name an mmo that has come about complete? Now also name an MMO thats out that has this type of sandbox in it where so many things need to be balanced and opened up?
Its common for MMO's not to put out things right on release. Im not trying to defend RB I think they are doing a crap job. I think they have 3 people working on a game that needs many more. The 3 are working their butts off, but is that the buyers fault that they only have 3 people working on the game?
EQ PVP was added later.
DAoC Housing was added later, as was battle grounds, and siege weapons.
I can name many things to any MMO that was added later. Dont act as if MMO's dont do that. Sure Archery is normally in a game on release, but how often is that game a sandbox type game? Also how often is archery broke? Every MMO's Ive played had Archery way overpowered, then nerfed then overpowered then nerfed.
Agreed, I can live without archery for a bit longer so they can get the rest of the game playable as I don't think one more buggy and ineffective thing is gonna make much of a difference ATM...
But even if they do add them tomorrow the prices on them are gonna be ridiclous... And imagine all the bows you will need to grind up to an acceptable lvl where you can even hit someone effectivly...
And thats not realistic as bows would have been quite common, only they will probably require goat guts to be used as the string(we know about that) will be pricey... coupled with the scarcity of them in the begining...Hope I am wrong tho but I doubt it.
(here again DDT, if they could be made at a lower Ql to start off for a new item added to the game the price would not need to get all screwy... so it could help in the aspect of them adding new items to the game and easing that transition Although we need goat hearders that can fence in their heard and breed them..... for obvious reasons.
I too agree and disagree with you MrDDt.,I do think that it being a sand box and only 3 people working on it does make things hard,but I am not talking about big features like pvp,I am talking about the staple of all mmo's in this genre,archery,I am sorry,but I have never heard of this,but if you would enlighten me with an example,I would be most pleased,though I am not holding my breath.
Originally posted by CapnSwallows I too agree and disagree with you MrDDt.,I do think that it being a sand box and only 3 people working on it does make things hard,but I am not talking about big features like pvp,I am talking about the staple of all mmo's in this genre,archery,I am sorry,but I have never heard of this,but if you would enlighten me with an example,I would be most pleased,though I am not holding my breath.
Again like I said, I agree and disagreed with you. Archery should be in the game however, its not unheard of to have an MMO come out with things that come later.
Archery is never balanced and hard to balance. Which is why its not been put in yet.
Archery is never balanced and hard to balance. Which is why its not been put in yet.-- MrDDT
Balance issues have never delayed a feature yet, nor have any easily-spotted bugs. You know that, MrDDT. You and I both have seen easily detected bugs and imbalances pass through, the signs that they did not even load up an account on their internal test server before an upate. Remember the feature that was supposed to stop healing in Elysium and instead stopped healing anywhere but in Elysium? A few minutes on their internal testing server would have caught that bug. To make the argument that archery is held back merely for balance issues is highly misleading, when we both know that RB hasn't even begun coding it yet, and probably doesn't exactly know how at the moment.
Bows will come in eventually. I'd say closer to two years away than this irrational dream of six months from now. For reference on this, the features of the Escalation update, announced in Febuary 2007 and projected for May 2007, will probably be finished in November or December.
Take any estimate by RB and multiply it by three and a half. In June 2007, they said bows would be coming next in the Q4 of 2007. By the above prediction model, it will be released in Feb 2009.
Will RV even be around in two years? Yeah. It'll keep turning up like a bad penny. It's an indie project with a low population and low bandwidth costs. As Duncan said in an earlier thread, the server handles maybe a few meg of data an hour per a connection. They can run this game on crap servers indefinitely at a server population of thirty a time.
(Edit: placed some quoted material after seeing MrDDT's post was left behind on the previous page.)
Originally posted by Cynewulf Archery is never balanced and hard to balance. Which is why its not been put in yet. -- MrDDT Balance issues have never delayed a feature yet, nor have any easily-spotted bugs. You know that, MrDDT. You and I both have seen easily detected bugs and imbalances pass through, the signs that they did not even load up an account on their internal test server before an upate. Remember the feature that was supposed to stop healing in Elysium and instead stopped healing anywhere but in Elysium? A few minutes on their internal testing server would have caught that bug. To make the argument that archery is held back merely for balance issues is highly misleading, when we both know that RB hasn't even begun coding it yet, and probably doesn't exactly know how at the moment. Bows will come in eventually. I'd say closer to two years away than this irrational dream of six months from now. For reference on this, the features of the Escalation update, announced in Febuary 2007 and projected for May 2007, will probably be finished in November or December. Take any estimate by RB and multiply it by three and a half. In June 2007, they said bows would be coming next in the Q4 of 2007. By the above prediction model, it will be released in Feb 2009. Will RV even be around in two years? Yeah. It'll keep turning up like a bad penny. It's an indie project with a low population and low bandwidth costs. As Duncan said in an earlier thread, the server handles maybe a few meg of data an hour per a connection. They can run this game on crap servers indefinitely at a server population of thirty a time.
(Edit: placed some quoted material after seeing MrDDT's post was left behind on the previous page.)
Im not going to disagree that opinion. I do believe thats why RV is lacking archery is due to the lack of coding. However, think that if archery was in the game? Most likely it would not only be broke but unbalanced. Causing many problems.
I think the biggest problem with this game is the lack of coders. Its simple as that.
P.S. Its based on your settings if it was left on the other page or not =P
It's not like we are looking for new HOUSING or CRAFTING when there is none.One would think this is about as basic for the period as you can get. Even Anarchy with it's futuristic setting has bows.
From KFR today, looks like ballistics are going to be in game within a few weeks.
"It's ballistic so it's all about the angle you're looking up/down at when you launch. And there's a slight animated delay after the click as you draw the bow back or bring your arm back to hurl the weapon.
The speed of the projectile is based primarily on whether it's a spear-type thrown weapon or an arrow, and if it's an arrow then the type of bow counts. Other factors count too such as the weapon quality, player character strength and so on.
So that, along with any height advantage, pretty much determines range. A spear or pilum under really optimal conditions might just about go 30-35 metres or so. An arrow from a top quality normal bow could fly for around 50-55 metres and an arrow from a top quality recurve bow would fly for maybe 70 metres. Those figures are pretty rough estimates.
I did the maths for the system based on the accurate effective weapon ranges for those historical weapons of our period and worked backwards to calculate launch velocities etc. There was a little juggling to fit it in. Even though you're confident in the numbers, it's still a rewarding surprise to get in the game, throw a spear at 45 degrees and see it sail off in what feels like the correct arc - especially when it ends up at a realistic distance.
As for hitting things, if the projectile passes near anything during its flight a test is made against the player character's spear-thrown or archery skills along with some other factors again including the weapon quality etc.
Even with the top quality kit and the highest skills you will still miss things. Ballistic weapons - even bows - are not accurate enough to ever become point-and-click-to-hit weapons. That said, a highly skilled archer could be a menace - particularly to the unarmoured.
If the projectile hits a target then there's a chance, based on the size and quality of the shield, that the shield will take the hit. If it passes the shield test then the projectile quality and parameters are tested against the clothing/armour of a randomly chosen body part. The body part choice is weighted according to the general likelihood of hitting the various parts of the body, taking into account size etc.
The archery and spear-thrown skills themselves can only be raised by missing - preferably distant targets - and only targets that are animals or dummy targets like the pell. You won't be able to raise them against NPC's or PC's. And they're not going to be easy to raise. Archery in particular will probably be the hardest skill in the game to raise.
If your projectile hits nothing then it'll drop whereever it lands and will incur some wear and tear. Spears can of course be repaired but arrows and pila can not. Arrows are handcrafted but both types of bow are lengthy projects. The recurve bow also requires expensive horn components, which will initially only be available from NPC merchants.
You can also throw weapons - or anything you can equip in your right hand for that matter. It's quite fun actually. I charged at DGH from a distance earlier and he threw his gladius at me and - just because I was charging at him at full speed - it sailed about 50cm over my head.
And if you see someone naked, and you're not completely useless with a bow, they're a sitting duck. It's worth plinking off a few speculative arrows just to see if you get lucky.
As I say, it won't be live until we've finished hooking everything up and testing it thoroughly but I'm now pretty confident about three things:
Firstly, it'll be great for hunters. Trying to creep up on an animal, deciding whether to try and get a bit closer or take the shot from there. Or when the critter picks the very instant you're about to loose the arrow to suddenly wander off.
Secondly it'll really fit in well with melee combat and the current combat scene. I'm looking forward to hurling Brudei's axe at a close formation of players, greatly increasing my chances of hitting one of them. Cos that's gotta hurt.
Finally it's bloody good fun. That much has become clear in the testing we've done so far. Roma Victor is not a single-player game and the combat is real-time, or at least as close to real-time as anything over Internet pipes can get. That's why ballistics is such a significant challenge for any virtual world developer. Almost all of them stick to some variant of a turn-based combat with no player targeting whatsoever.
What I think we've come up with is a simulation of real-time ballistics that fits in with the paradigm of many players in the same world as many moving projectiles, and simultaneously balances the contributions of both player and player character skills.
Anyway I've written much more than I'd planned to heh. It's still a work-in-progress so some things may well be subject to change and I'm sure we'll release much more information as it nears completion. Thus far though, it's looking pretty good.
Curious about wear to the bow itself, that wasn't mentioned. Everyone knows I was never a big fan of the weapons breaking like they are made of clay. As Roman weapon technology was pretty advanced for their time, I felt that it was not portrayed correctly. Hopefully the bows are done in a much better way...like the string wearing way more than the actual bow itself which should last a very long time.
So any news on that would be nice.
This has sort of tempted me to return and mess with my barb, that I made specifically for archery, to see how things are progressing.
Hope to hear more good news like this in the not to distant future.
Comments
Not that my opinion really means much as I have not decided to purchase this game yet. But as an outsider looking in I would say one other check or balance that should be added is a cap on the amount of real money you can spend in a month to prevent wild fluctuations and shifts in power.
Matt
They promised there would be a cap before release but never committed to one because the game was designed around the revenue system, to make them as much money as possible.
That is the point in running a business and if it is not a problem yet ..................
Matt
I take it there is STILL no archery in the game ?
Nope. They are trying to finish guild halls right now, which will allow players to claim their own one square kilometer of the world.
Ballistics will probably be quite a ways off, at least six months to a year.
Once again living in a dream world lol
Naa...I predict archery will be in by 2012...for sure !!
When Escalation is done they will work on Balistics. We have been getting great updates every monday, wednesday, and friday KFR estimates Guildhalls will be buildable by this coming weekend, after all this escalation stuff is done Balistics are the next thing on RB's list.
Most ALL mmo's have this stuff when they first come out,archery is almost a complete must.Even completely f2p mmo's that are as we all know are crap,have archery,I have never even HEARD of a mmo of the genre not having archery. I forgot about this game as soon as I heard how incomplete and buggy it is.And please,if you are going to flame me,at least do it right,none of the famous,Vepgenus,"Don't Let the door ihit you on the way out,(insert retarded smiley face)" posts,and please be clever too.
I agree and disagree with you, name an mmo that has come about complete? Now also name an MMO thats out that has this type of sandbox in it where so many things need to be balanced and opened up?
Its common for MMO's not to put out things right on release. Im not trying to defend RB I think they are doing a crap job. I think they have 3 people working on a game that needs many more. The 3 are working their butts off, but is that the buyers fault that they only have 3 people working on the game?
EQ PVP was added later.
DAoC Housing was added later, as was battle grounds, and siege weapons.
I can name many things to any MMO that was added later. Dont act as if MMO's dont do that. Sure Archery is normally in a game on release, but how often is that game a sandbox type game? Also how often is archery broke? Every MMO's Ive played had Archery way overpowered, then nerfed then overpowered then nerfed.
-MrDDT
I agree and disagree with you, name an mmo that has come about complete? Now also name an MMO thats out that has this type of sandbox in it where so many things need to be balanced and opened up?
Its common for MMO's not to put out things right on release. Im not trying to defend RB I think they are doing a crap job. I think they have 3 people working on a game that needs many more. The 3 are working their butts off, but is that the buyers fault that they only have 3 people working on the game?
EQ PVP was added later.
DAoC Housing was added later, as was battle grounds, and siege weapons.
I can name many things to any MMO that was added later. Dont act as if MMO's dont do that. Sure Archery is normally in a game on release, but how often is that game a sandbox type game? Also how often is archery broke? Every MMO's Ive played had Archery way overpowered, then nerfed then overpowered then nerfed.
Agreed, I can live without archery for a bit longer so they can get the rest of the game playable as I don't think one more buggy and ineffective thing is gonna make much of a difference ATM...
But even if they do add them tomorrow the prices on them are gonna be ridiclous... And imagine all the bows you will need to grind up to an acceptable lvl where you can even hit someone effectivly...
And thats not realistic as bows would have been quite common, only they will probably require goat guts to be used as the string(we know about that) will be pricey... coupled with the scarcity of them in the begining...Hope I am wrong tho but I doubt it.
(here again DDT, if they could be made at a lower Ql to start off for a new item added to the game the price would not need to get all screwy... so it could help in the aspect of them adding new items to the game and easing that transition
Although we need goat hearders that can fence in their heard and breed them..... for obvious reasons.
I too agree and disagree with you MrDDt.,I do think that it being a sand box and only 3 people working on it does make things hard,but I am not talking about big features like pvp,I am talking about the staple of all mmo's in this genre,archery,I am sorry,but I have never heard of this,but if you would enlighten me with an example,I would be most pleased,though I am not holding my breath.
Again like I said, I agree and disagreed with you. Archery should be in the game however, its not unheard of to have an MMO come out with things that come later.
Archery is never balanced and hard to balance. Which is why its not been put in yet.
-MrDDT
Archery is never balanced and hard to balance. Which is why its not been put in yet. -- MrDDT
Balance issues have never delayed a feature yet, nor have any easily-spotted bugs. You know that, MrDDT. You and I both have seen easily detected bugs and imbalances pass through, the signs that they did not even load up an account on their internal test server before an upate. Remember the feature that was supposed to stop healing in Elysium and instead stopped healing anywhere but in Elysium? A few minutes on their internal testing server would have caught that bug. To make the argument that archery is held back merely for balance issues is highly misleading, when we both know that RB hasn't even begun coding it yet, and probably doesn't exactly know how at the moment.
Bows will come in eventually. I'd say closer to two years away than this irrational dream of six months from now. For reference on this, the features of the Escalation update, announced in Febuary 2007 and projected for May 2007, will probably be finished in November or December.
Take any estimate by RB and multiply it by three and a half. In June 2007, they said bows would be coming next in the Q4 of 2007. By the above prediction model, it will be released in Feb 2009.
Will RV even be around in two years? Yeah. It'll keep turning up like a bad penny. It's an indie project with a low population and low bandwidth costs. As Duncan said in an earlier thread, the server handles maybe a few meg of data an hour per a connection. They can run this game on crap servers indefinitely at a server population of thirty a time.
(Edit: placed some quoted material after seeing MrDDT's post was left behind on the previous page.)
Im not going to disagree that opinion. I do believe thats why RV is lacking archery is due to the lack of coding. However, think that if archery was in the game? Most likely it would not only be broke but unbalanced. Causing many problems.
I think the biggest problem with this game is the lack of coders. Its simple as that.
P.S. Its based on your settings if it was left on the other page or not =P
-MrDDT
December 5th..........still no archery ??
It's not like we are looking for new HOUSING or CRAFTING when there is none.One would think this is about as basic for the period as you can get. Even Anarchy with it's futuristic setting has bows.
Enough already.
January 27, 2008...is archery in the game yet ?
From KFR today, looks like ballistics are going to be in game within a few weeks.
"It's ballistic so it's all about the angle you're looking up/down at when you launch. And there's a slight animated delay after the click as you draw the bow back or bring your arm back to hurl the weapon.
The speed of the projectile is based primarily on whether it's a spear-type thrown weapon or an arrow, and if it's an arrow then the type of bow counts. Other factors count too such as the weapon quality, player character strength and so on.
So that, along with any height advantage, pretty much determines range. A spear or pilum under really optimal conditions might just about go 30-35 metres or so. An arrow from a top quality normal bow could fly for around 50-55 metres and an arrow from a top quality recurve bow would fly for maybe 70 metres. Those figures are pretty rough estimates.
I did the maths for the system based on the accurate effective weapon ranges for those historical weapons of our period and worked backwards to calculate launch velocities etc. There was a little juggling to fit it in. Even though you're confident in the numbers, it's still a rewarding surprise to get in the game, throw a spear at 45 degrees and see it sail off in what feels like the correct arc - especially when it ends up at a realistic distance.
As for hitting things, if the projectile passes near anything during its flight a test is made against the player character's spear-thrown or archery skills along with some other factors again including the weapon quality etc.
Even with the top quality kit and the highest skills you will still miss things. Ballistic weapons - even bows - are not accurate enough to ever become point-and-click-to-hit weapons. That said, a highly skilled archer could be a menace - particularly to the unarmoured.
If the projectile hits a target then there's a chance, based on the size and quality of the shield, that the shield will take the hit. If it passes the shield test then the projectile quality and parameters are tested against the clothing/armour of a randomly chosen body part. The body part choice is weighted according to the general likelihood of hitting the various parts of the body, taking into account size etc.
The archery and spear-thrown skills themselves can only be raised by missing - preferably distant targets - and only targets that are animals or dummy targets like the pell. You won't be able to raise them against NPC's or PC's. And they're not going to be easy to raise. Archery in particular will probably be the hardest skill in the game to raise.
If your projectile hits nothing then it'll drop whereever it lands and will incur some wear and tear. Spears can of course be repaired but arrows and pila can not. Arrows are handcrafted but both types of bow are lengthy projects. The recurve bow also requires expensive horn components, which will initially only be available from NPC merchants.
You can also throw weapons - or anything you can equip in your right hand for that matter. It's quite fun actually. I charged at DGH from a distance earlier and he threw his gladius at me and - just because I was charging at him at full speed - it sailed about 50cm over my head.
And if you see someone naked, and you're not completely useless with a bow, they're a sitting duck. It's worth plinking off a few speculative arrows just to see if you get lucky.
As I say, it won't be live until we've finished hooking everything up and testing it thoroughly but I'm now pretty confident about three things:
Firstly, it'll be great for hunters. Trying to creep up on an animal, deciding whether to try and get a bit closer or take the shot from there. Or when the critter picks the very instant you're about to loose the arrow to suddenly wander off.
Secondly it'll really fit in well with melee combat and the current combat scene. I'm looking forward to hurling Brudei's axe at a close formation of players, greatly increasing my chances of hitting one of them. Cos that's gotta hurt.
Finally it's bloody good fun. That much has become clear in the testing we've done so far. Roma Victor is not a single-player game and the combat is real-time, or at least as close to real-time as anything over Internet pipes can get. That's why ballistics is such a significant challenge for any virtual world developer. Almost all of them stick to some variant of a turn-based combat with no player targeting whatsoever.
What I think we've come up with is a simulation of real-time ballistics that fits in with the paradigm of many players in the same world as many moving projectiles, and simultaneously balances the contributions of both player and player character skills.
Anyway I've written much more than I'd planned to heh. It's still a work-in-progress so some things may well be subject to change and I'm sure we'll release much more information as it nears completion. Thus far though, it's looking pretty good.
-KFR"
Cheers....keep us informed.
That is indeed good news.
Curious about wear to the bow itself, that wasn't mentioned. Everyone knows I was never a big fan of the weapons breaking like they are made of clay. As Roman weapon technology was pretty advanced for their time, I felt that it was not portrayed correctly. Hopefully the bows are done in a much better way...like the string wearing way more than the actual bow itself which should last a very long time.
So any news on that would be nice.
This has sort of tempted me to return and mess with my barb, that I made specifically for archery, to see how things are progressing.
Hope to hear more good news like this in the not to distant future.
The most basic type of bow is now craftable, as are arrows. There are two new skills that have been added that relate to making these items.
Don't get too excited yet, though. You can MAKE them, but not use them yet.
Hopefully there will be more developments soon.
Archery is now enabled in the game! You can shoot arrows and throws spears so far.
Awesome job RB!!!
With that...a ton of bugs
Thanks RB! Thanks for all the server issues and game bugs that have been implemented within this last week!