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Questions for Christians about once you're in heaven.

noname12345noname12345 Member Posts: 2,267

I did that Hell Test. The description for "Limbo" was interesting because at the end it said "There is no punishment here, and the atmosphere is peaceful, yet sad.". My question is, wouldn't that apply to heaven? (btw i'm not saying the test was overall accurate for scripture or anything)



When you're in heaven, you will probably be sad for eternity because of all the trillions of people in Hell being tormented. You will probably miss family, friends and boy/girlfriends. I know I would be devastated if I had a loved one in Hell for eternity, that's obviously worse than mere death here on earth and the experience people still alive go through. We're sad and angry when people die in Iraq or from a school shooting, we then miss them....but that's tame compared to being in Heaven and having a loved one in Hell.

I would be angry with God to deprive me of loved ones....that's just me being selfish of course. I would really be angry with God for letting someone I loved have to go through Hell forever.



I think the overall subject of Heaven and Hell is analogous to me living a peaceful and nice existence in my home here in America, while feeling sad for the men and women who are living a crappy experience in Iraq who risk their lives just trying to get by....same goes for children in Uganda, Africa who always risk getting abducted and brutally brainwashed to join a militia (documentary for those interested).



Actually it would probably be even more analogous to a couple who just had their child abducted and have seen video of the child being tormented...this going on for eternity.



If you had a child and he was being tormented in the firey pits of Hell, would you try and save him If you had the opportunity to get him out of Hell? Wouldn't that be against God's judgment? Would you still do it or tell your child "Sorry, I could, but i'm not going to save you."?



A Christian said "God would wipe your memory of any loved ones who went to Hell so that you wouldn't be pining for them when you're in Heaven."

The problem with this is a god who would just take away your memories of loved ones, just like that, because they didn't meet his standards is setting up a perplexing proposition. It seems that according to Christians we are on earth to basically glorify God. What does this mean if the reason I am as a person is now erased from my memory? I wouldn't be the same person if my mother or father was erased from my memory. If my parents were the ones who exposed me to Christianity and they went to Hell for some reason, then am I still the same while in Heaven with erased memory? What's the point in having a generic-memory-erased person in Heaven? I bet you anything if you erased the right portion of Hitler's memory then he wouldn't be the same person who could kill all those jews. See what i'm saying?

______________________________
"When Saddam flew that plane into those buildings, I knew it was time to kick some Iranian ass!"
-cheer leading, flag waving American

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Comments

  • FinweFinwe Member CommonPosts: 3,106

    You don't go to heaven, and no one stays in hell for eternity.

    Any questions?

    "The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis

    "If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979

  • seabass2003seabass2003 Member Posts: 4,144

    I just skimmed over what you wrote cuz its late and I am tired. There is a little known gospel called The Gospel according to Mary Magdalene. Well, its been left out of the bible I feel due to one phrase in particular. The phrase goes a little something like if you are in heaven you can say a prayer to God to get whoever you want out of Hell (or maybe it was for family members only I don't really remember right now). I think they left this gospel out due to the fact that the church wants control over its followers and this phrase would cause them to lose that control because now there is a "get out of jail free card". Anyways we will discuss this tomorrow. GOOD NIGHT!

     

    FINWE- Get some sleep!

    In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.

  • noname12345noname12345 Member Posts: 2,267
    Originally posted by Finwe


    You don't go to heaven, and no one stays in hell for eternity.
    Any questions?

    no sir....

    hehe

    ______________________________
    "When Saddam flew that plane into those buildings, I knew it was time to kick some Iranian ass!"
    -cheer leading, flag waving American

  • daveospicedaveospice Member UncommonPosts: 366

    Wanting to go to heaven is kind of selfish anyway, no one should strive to go to heaven - in my eyes that is imoral!  You're not trying to go to heaven because the things you see are truely good in your eyes, you're doing the actions and things you do because you believe God wants you to do those things, and it's all selfishly trying to reach that end all goal of heaven.  I believe people should live their lives and if they happen to turn out good based on their nature in the end then they are good people and maybe, just maybe god will let them into heaven, which I view heaven as a happy ending.  Basically when you die, you will either die happy or sad.  If you die happy you are in my view of heaven.  I don't care about living forever, I don't care about any of those selfish desires.  The only thing I know is that the happiest day of my life will be the day I die, since frankly life is hard and everyone is fighting a hard battle... it'll be so nice to know that struggle, all this hardship... it's finally over.  I'll miss everyone, but I know that my memories and thoughts will cease to exist and that makes me happy.  I don't want to remember the holocaust, or my mom dieing, or all the crap going on in Africa, or how my ex girlfriend got into meth and destroyed her life, or how my dad became retarded after an accident, or how I had a heart attack at 21.  Jeez, I don't know why anyone would want to remember this life!  Sure the good moments are nice, and I don't want to ever forget them; which is irony and torturous in itself, since god designed me with a faulty memory at that!  Even more torturing I stopped dreaming of my mom; now I fear I've forgotten who she truely was because of just how faulty the human psychy can be at remembering things, and how we twist things and lie to ourselves to adapt to our bad life situations.

    I don't know, maybe I'm just bias and hateful of god and heaven since I grew up thinking my dad was the devil because he used to beat the shit out of me every day.  I don't know what kind of life some of you are living if you don't think this isn't hell.  All I know is I'll be happy the day I die, but I won't ever just give up on life I'm stubborn and will try to be as moral as I can be until the bitter end.

    I'm tired of hearing about heaven - there is no heaven but that sweet bitter end. 

    I'm like a rock.  My moral integrity does not faulter, I do not waive in the wind.  You may kick me around but I am still strong and standing.  I do not fear a hypothetical punishment (such as hell) nor do I desire a hypothetical reward (suh as heaven).  I need no leader, President Bush is not my leader.  I am my own leader.  I think others should be the same way because I am human, and we transmit ideas from person to person.  This allows us to adapt to situations more quickly, and to our lives more quickly.  Don't think so deep into meaning of things, and don't become so thick headed you can't see the truth.

     

  • EggFteggEggFtegg Member Posts: 1,141
    Originally posted by daveospice


    Wanting to go to heaven is kind of selfish anyway, no one should strive to go to heaven - in my eyes that is imoral!  You're not trying to go to heaven because the things you see are truely good in your eyes, you're doing the actions and things you do because you believe God wants you to do those things, and it's all selfishly trying to reach that end all goal of heaven.


    It's not like you're climbing over other people to get there. In what way is it any more selfish than any other motive for doing good? Often people do good for others, because it makes them feel good that they helped someone else. Isn't that just as selfish? Throwing some money in a charity jar might ease your conscience a little about being well off while others are starving . Isn't that a selfish motive too?

  • noname12345noname12345 Member Posts: 2,267
    I was just asking a hypothetical question about Christianity.....actually it can apply to other religions too....THEY'RE ALL THE SAME. lol j/k about the last part...kinda. 

    ______________________________
    "When Saddam flew that plane into those buildings, I knew it was time to kick some Iranian ass!"
    -cheer leading, flag waving American

  • EggFteggEggFtegg Member Posts: 1,141
    Well, personally, I don't really go in for that hell thing. So, I'd be thinking more along the lines of those that don't go to heaven are just "no more", not being tormented for eternity. It's all very much speculation, but I would imagine that the anxious thoughts you are concerned about wouldn't exist in a place of perfect peace. I think you'd be in quite a different state of mind in heaven, and have a spiritual understanding that we couldn't even get close to while we're on Earth.

  • GodliestGodliest Member Posts: 3,486

    The standards are to high to get to heaven, so it's just god and jesus sitting there playing chess with themselves. So everyone gets to hell and then everyone is... happy?

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  • SpysSpys Member Posts: 111
    why would you  listen to a old guy (about 4050 years old) who calles himself god and tells you, you can't go to heaven but you wil be tormented forever. there are many 'gods' in the world so why listen to this one? make your own god.
  • AelfinnAelfinn Member Posts: 3,857
    Originally posted by Spys

    why would you  listen to a old guy (about 4050 years old) who calles himself god and tells you, you can't go to heaven but you wil be tormented forever. there are many 'gods' in the world so why listen to this one? make your own god.



    Agreed for the most part.

    What really gets me laughing over the situation is the fact that many people think the religion that eventually became Judaism was original, particularly ancient, or even the first monotheistic religion. It isn't any of these things. Zoroastrianism, which is still around in small numbers today, may or may not have been the first monotheistic religion, but its ideals and philosophies almost certainly gave "birth" to the Hebrews, the timing, social, and geographical coincidences are to great to simply ignore.

    Heh, kind of makes me wish the Hebrews had paid more attention and made damn sure the nonviolent portions truly survived the centuries.

    No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
    Hemingway

  • daeandordaeandor Member UncommonPosts: 2,695
    First off, Dante's Inferno is not The Bible, and his interpretation of Hell and how you get there is not exactly the same as the Bible.  Although I am not exactly positive, it appears that Dante took much of his information from Old Testament Catholicism.  Christian beliefs now days are much less negative.  Now, the reason Limbo is considered "bad" is because while you are not tormented, you are left with all of the same personal feelings of loss you would have if you were alone in a strange land as a mortal.  Essentially everyone there is in an eternal state of depression.  Heaven has an eternal state of joy and happiness which permeates every thought of it's inhabitants, their own thoughts of their mortal lives are washed away in the presence of the Holy Spirit.  So essentially, I have seen it interpreted that your mortal thoughts and emotions are erased, I believe the actual interpretation should be that the mood is so happy there, that even lingering thoughts of sadness are washed away.



    However, what Dante's Inferno does not mention is the Book of Revelations in which there is the rise of the Beast and the second death.  After which The Book of Life is opened and the dead are judged according to their works, and anyone not found in the Book of Life is cast into the lake of fire.  Essentially that is your eternal hell, of which there is only one level and you are either there or in New Jerusalem (Heaven).  At this point, mortality becomes a non-issue.  You either bathe in the Light of God or writhe outside the gates of New Jerusalem in the lake of fire.  Those who reside outside the gates were not listed in the Book of Life and are cowardly, unbelievers, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and liars.  Good luck getting in at the second death.
  • daeandordaeandor Member UncommonPosts: 2,695
    Daveospice, actually the point of "getting into Heaven" does not revolve around being selfish.  In the end you are merely judged on your actions in life and whether or not you choose to repent when faced with your actions.  It's all about owning up, it's not about working the system.  Bottom line is that following the Bible as a means to get into Heaven, without believing in your heart that what you are doing is right, is just going to get you tossed into the lake of fire as a liar and unbeliever anyhow.  So if you don't believe in God, then you might as well do whatever you want.  Why waste time trying to follow the Bible, when following it and not truly believing gets you in Hell anyway?
  • hazmatshazmats Member Posts: 1,081

    If you are interested in these things, i recommend reading the Divine Comedy. Pretty good book.

  • Agent_X7Agent_X7 Staff WriterMember, Newbie CommonPosts: 515

    It's simple, really.

    Nobody is in heaven right now. When you die, you're dead. Then comes the ressurection. Then comes judgement. Then we'll see who gets in and who gets to get punished for a while, then gets in.

    Agent_X7 AKA J Star
    [/URL]image
    Notice: The views expressed in this post are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com or its management.

  • GameloadingGameloading Member UncommonPosts: 14,182
    Originally posted by Finwe


    You don't go to heaven, and no one stays in hell for eternity.
    Any questions?
    I think denial of the holy spirit will get you in hell for eternity.
  • Azeroth04Azeroth04 Member Posts: 215
    Originally posted by hazmats


    If you are interested in these things, i recommend reading the Divine Comedy. Pretty good book.
    Dante's Divine Comedy is not a correct representation of the Christian afterlife.



    First of all, Christians aren't promised to go to Heaven immediately when they die. If you read the Bible carefully, you will see this. Only when Jesus Christ returns will Christians be brought to life and then summoned to Heaven. Secondly, Heaven is not a promise of eternal happiness, but merely a place where you spend eternity with Jesus. People assume it will be all happy and such because they no longer live in this crappy world and can't die; assumptions do no good.
  • gnomexxxgnomexxx Member Posts: 2,920
    Originally posted by seabass2003


    I just skimmed over what you wrote cuz its late and I am tired. There is a little known gospel called The Gospel according to Mary Magdalene. Well, its been left out of the bible I feel due to one phrase in particular. The phrase goes a little something like if you are in heaven you can say a prayer to God to get whoever you want out of Hell (or maybe it was for family members only I don't really remember right now). I think they left this gospel out due to the fact that the church wants control over its followers and this phrase would cause them to lose that control because now there is a "get out of jail free card". Anyways we will discuss this tomorrow. GOOD NIGHT!
     
    FINWE- Get some sleep!
    I heard exactly the same thing!!!



    I saw it on a show a few months ago on History Channel.  They were talking about how the Bible has been handpicked by the church to portray an image that they wanted back during the Council of Nicea.



    They left out a lot of books that didn't jibe with what they needed right then, which was control of the people.  Sort of what they've been up to since then.  Rome was falling apart, Muslims were moving in, and the rest is history.

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  • gnomexxxgnomexxx Member Posts: 2,920
    Sheep go to heaven



    Goats go to hell

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  • EnigmaEnigma Member UncommonPosts: 11,384
    Originally posted by Agent_X7


    It's simple, really.
    Nobody is in heaven right now. When you die, you're dead. Then comes the ressurection. Then comes judgement. Then we'll see who gets in and who gets to get punished for a while, then gets in.

    If you're basing that off of Christian philosophy that is incorrect.  The Christian idea of soul sleep is wrong (if you're a christian and you base the Bible as a resource for information) and only back wood country Holiness churches believe in that.  Everyone else will call it "theologically incorrect"

    According to the Bible, when you die, you are either in the presence of the Lord as stated in John 14:3 or somewhere bad.  That one verse alone disproves soul sleep.  If you aren't going to heaven then, when you die, you are held in a place of holding called Ghenna which is noted in the Gospel several times and is used in the Parable of Lazarus and the Rich man.

    If you're not a Christian then dont worry about anything I just said

    People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.

  • seabass2003seabass2003 Member Posts: 4,144
    Originally posted by gnomexxx

    Originally posted by seabass2003


    I just skimmed over what you wrote cuz its late and I am tired. There is a little known gospel called The Gospel according to Mary Magdalene. Well, its been left out of the bible I feel due to one phrase in particular. The phrase goes a little something like if you are in heaven you can say a prayer to God to get whoever you want out of Hell (or maybe it was for family members only I don't really remember right now). I think they left this gospel out due to the fact that the church wants control over its followers and this phrase would cause them to lose that control because now there is a "get out of jail free card". Anyways we will discuss this tomorrow. GOOD NIGHT!
     
    FINWE- Get some sleep!
    I heard exactly the same thing!!!



    I saw it on a show a few months ago on History Channel.  They were talking about how the Bible has been handpicked by the church to portray an image that they wanted back during the Council of Nicea.



    They left out a lot of books that didn't jibe with what they needed right then, which was control of the people.  Sort of what they've been up to since then.  Rome was falling apart, Muslims were moving in, and the rest is history.



    I wondered where I saw that at. Man, thought I got really messed up one day and imagined it. Whew! I feel better now. Hey Gnomexxx if I get to heaven and you don't I will just pray you out and you do the same for me. Unless we both go to hell then we can just party like its 1999!

     

     

    Ok just read the last part about erasing memories. Who was this Christian who said that? He doesn't know his own religion very well is all I can say. Anyways the Christians believe in free-will above all else so God wiping your memory wouldn't be too cool. If he erased your memory then that would mess with free-will and you deciding what you would want to do once you got to heaven. It would be like being lobotomized and just sitting around not knowing how you got there or even why.

    In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.

  • AdrealAdreal Member Posts: 2,087
    Originally posted by Finwe


    You don't go to heaven, and no one stays in hell for eternity.
    Any questions?
    Good post, Finwe. I'm not entirely sure about that last point you mentioned, but it's good that you brought those two points out in the open. Most atheists it seems think that Christians believe that hell is a place where people go to spend eternity in torment. And I'm surprised at how wide-spread the belief is that we go to heaven when we are resurrected or when we die, etc. As far as I currently know, we don't go to heaven. Instead there is a new heaven (cosmos I think), and a new earth, and we live in that new earth. This means to me one of two things: 1. We are taken to another planet and the stars are simply different, or 2. A new cosmos is literally made in which we will live on a new planet.

    "Put your foot where your mouth is." - Wisdom from my grandfather
    "Paper or plastic? ... because I'm afraid I'll have to suffocate you unless you put this bag on your head..." - Ethnitrek
    AC1: Wierding from Harvestgain

  • EnigmaEnigma Member UncommonPosts: 11,384

    Well it does state that Hell is a place of eternal torment. That tells me it's well... sorta eternal.

    New Heavens and New Earth means that God will whipe away everything that has caused our planet to go to hell in a hand basket. Centuries of war and torment, death and destruction requires the planet to be remade to keep it in Pristine order. A new Heaven simply states that the order in which Heaven exists today will be utterly different once God destroys evil. Biblically, it'll go from a militant type of celestial atmosphere where you have Angels and God fighting for the lives of humanity to a Heaven in which all can ...well..go about their lives without worrying over the lost souls in which Satan tries to destroy.

    The New Earth and New Heaven will be comparable to Earth Pre Sin and Heaven Pre Falling of Lucifer. 



    I dont think the new heavens and earth will be a new planet in which God will place us...of course, if your mormon, then this is the correct way of thinking.

    People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.

  • ZikielZikiel Member Posts: 1,138
    Originally posted by Enigma


    Well it does state that Hell is a place of eternal torment. That tells me it's well... sorta eternal.
    New Heavens and New Earth means that God will whipe away everything that has caused our planet to go to hell in a hand basket. Centuries of war and torment, death and destruction requires the planet to be remade to keep it in Pristine order. A new Heaven simply states that the order in which Heaven exists today will be utterly different once God destroys evil. Biblically, it'll go from a militant type of celestial atmosphere where you have Angels and God fighting for the lives of humanity to a Heaven in which all can ...well..go about their lives without worrying over the lost souls in which Satan tries to destroy.
    The New Earth and New Heaven will be comparable to Earth Pre Sin and Heaven Pre Falling of Lucifer. 



    I dont think the new heavens and earth will be a new planet in which God will place us...of course, if your mormon, then this is the correct way of thinking.
    I thought of something.. If God were to 'destroy' evil and beat Satan, would that not eliminate the need for a god? Without temptation from Satan, there would be no sin, and therefore, no need for God.. Interesting thought..
  • EnigmaEnigma Member UncommonPosts: 11,384

    One does not necessarily have to have Evil to have to have good.

    ooo I sound like a Kung Fu Master.

    People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.

  • gnomexxxgnomexxx Member Posts: 2,920
    Originally posted by seabass2003

    Originally posted by gnomexxx

    Originally posted by seabass2003


    I just skimmed over what you wrote cuz its late and I am tired. There is a little known gospel called The Gospel according to Mary Magdalene. Well, its been left out of the bible I feel due to one phrase in particular. The phrase goes a little something like if you are in heaven you can say a prayer to God to get whoever you want out of Hell (or maybe it was for family members only I don't really remember right now). I think they left this gospel out due to the fact that the church wants control over its followers and this phrase would cause them to lose that control because now there is a "get out of jail free card". Anyways we will discuss this tomorrow. GOOD NIGHT!
     
    FINWE- Get some sleep!
    I heard exactly the same thing!!!



    I saw it on a show a few months ago on History Channel.  They were talking about how the Bible has been handpicked by the church to portray an image that they wanted back during the Council of Nicea.



    They left out a lot of books that didn't jibe with what they needed right then, which was control of the people.  Sort of what they've been up to since then.  Rome was falling apart, Muslims were moving in, and the rest is history.



    I wondered where I saw that at. Man, thought I got really messed up one day and imagined it. Whew! I feel better now. Hey Gnomexxx if I get to heaven and you don't I will just pray you out and you do the same for me. Unless we both go to hell then we can just party like its 1999!


    Absolutely, man.  Don't worry.  I got your back. 



    Actually, if I'm up there I'm going to pray for everyone in hell to be freed.  I'm sorry, but I can't think of anything that anyone could do in the short messed up time we're here to have spend an eternity in torture. 

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