ok - how auto lock really works

rodier

Today I found info on one secret forum about TR beta and there was info how auto lock feature work.

Its all about lag/ping. This auto-lock feature work only in some ° degree (60fov) and its here because if you got lag/larger ping, mob dont leave your target.

But, this not work like in wow/another mmorpgs.. when u press tab, you get mob select.. no. you must manually aim and then lock with tab.

+ monsters lock you too in same degree.. so you must do big jumps and strafe to get not fired..

Crose

There's a lot of confusion about TR's combat.  It has been stated in interviews that it's not FPS.  You "lock on" to a target and then shoot at them.  Hit chance, crit chance, and damage is calculated by the collective stats of your player's level and items, and a roll of the dice.



If you go in to the game thinking you'll find completely player skill based FPS combat, you're going to be disappointed.

Blurr

But there definately is a difference between you aiming well, and aiming poorly. It can sometimes mean the difference between a one-shot-kill and almost no damage

m3zcl4n

I can't wait for some official info on this. Personally, the suggestion that there will be a bonus to rolls for manual aiming sounds very appealing, but just as well without. I mean, isn't that essentially how SWG ranged combat worked? And that was still fun in its early days.

Unknown

Hmm that is interesting, but if lag is such an issue how has Neocron managed to do it without a target lock?   I doubt the low population is the answer?  Maybe they have a hidden target lock and just never told anyone the actual mechanics ...

m3zcl4n

Maybe they have that client-side hit detection like planetside and WWII online. Still, given the combat mechanics in TR, lag shouldnt be as much an issue as a twitch MMOFPS.

vazzaroth

I think I actually have a good example of how I think it sounds it will be in another game:  Final Fantasy VII: Dirge of Cerberus.



When you aim at something, the little cursor makes a smaller reticle on your target. You press shoot, and sometimes you hit, sometimes you miss, and sometimes you get a HS, based off of player stats, weapon stats, and range.



I'm not sure if TR will have this, but you can also choose to use a scope to manually aim, then it is just like a regular FPS as far as HS and hits go, but the enemys move quickly, so it's hard.

m3zcl4n

Back to gestalt's post, I should have pointed this out, there IS a target lock that they are by no means keeping a secret (read some more and you'll find discussion about it all over). And yes, the hits are based on rolls off of stats. The question is whether or not your actual aiming will make for any bonus to rolls(I hope so, perhaps giving you a bonus to hit or damage).

Niirnaeth

Originally posted by m3zcl4n

Back to gestalt's post, I should have pointed this out, there IS a target lock that they are by no means keeping a secret (read some more and you'll find discussion about it all over). And yes, the hits are based on rolls off of stats. The question is whether or not your actual aiming will make for any bonus to rolls(I hope so, perhaps giving you a bonus to hit or damage).

Gestalt was talking about neocron having a hidden target lock not TR. We all know TR has target lock.

Elgareth

Sounds like a pretty similar system to Auto Assault, to a degree.

At least the part "You have to have the enemy inside your weapon's fire arc in order to even get hit rolls".

I liked it in AA, made the whole PvE procedure more fun :-)

Royspi

I hope its like space cowboy.

Aseenus

that sounds nice... i like it

Unknown

Garriot actualy talks about the lock on at tabularasa.com there is a whole half hour interview there.

fl_fubar

I got a response from the MMORPG.com staff, but forgot to post it:

"Yes, the Tab locks the target in
place, which takes care of the majority of aiming - it's important to
remember that TR is not an FPS, it's an MMO.

If the target leaves your direct forward view, though - let's say you turn
to the side a bit and he goes off screen - you lose target. You still need
to make sure you face the target or you will lose it.

As for holding the mouse button down, that's only on things like lasers or
flamethrowers - anything that fires individual shots takes individual mouse
clicks."

Unknown

Originally posted by fl_fubar

I got a response from the MMORPG.com staff, but forgot to post it: "Yes, the Tab locks the target in place, which takes care of the majority of aiming - it's important to remember that TR is not an FPS, it's an MMO. If the target leaves your direct forward view, though - let's say you turn to the side a bit and he goes off screen - you lose target. You still need to make sure you face the target or you will lose it. As for holding the mouse button down, that's only on things like lasers or flamethrowers - anything that fires individual shots takes individual mouse clicks."

Hmm that's too bad, I was really hoping they would copy neocron.  I would still play the game, but I liked the way Neocron does it.  I suspect that in some sense they kind of have to do it, because in a team based game people really like to use third person/auto lock as a crutch to see the entire battle field in 360 degrees.  But I like the more realistic approach of Neocron.  However i think they would get too many complaints from hidebound MMORPG players.

fl_fubar

Yeah it really annoys me when games like Tabula Rasa, Auto-Assault etc. claim "We are breaking the MMORPG mold, get ready for something totally new!" before they soon realise that new and fresh means:

A) Stupid people won't be immediately hooked

It's a risk

C) WoW players will complain it's different and won't convert

So instead they just ditch anything that could scare off new players and, HEAVEN FORBID, make the game different and possibly a challenge (FPS like controls = difficulty = stupid people can't play), and just go down the old generic MMORPG path which has the most mass appeal, all the while claiming still "LOOK, cars/guns/aliens/Cell Shading/Conan. How crazy and different is this game?! WHOAH!".

At this point, the only game left which is not folding to the "bone dry gameplay to appease the most people which plays as simple as possible so any idiot can play" strategy seems to be Warhammer Online. Hopefully it doesn't die in the ass as well, but you never know.

olddaddy

Originally posted by fl_fubar


Yeah it really annoys me when games like Tabula Rasa, Auto-Assault etc. claim "We are breaking the MMORPG mold, get ready for something totally new!" before they soon realise that new and fresh means:


A) Stupid people won't be immediately hooked
It's a risk
C) WoW players will complain it's different and won't convert
So instead they just ditch anything that could scare off new players and, HEAVEN FORBID, make the game different and possibly a challenge (FPS like controls = difficulty = stupid people can't play), and just go down the old generic MMORPG path which has the most mass appeal, all the while claiming still "LOOK, cars/guns/aliens/Cell Shading/Conan. How crazy and different is this game?! WHOAH!".
At this point, the only game left which is not folding to the "bone dry gameplay to appease the most people which plays as simple as possible so any idiot can play" strategy seems to be Warhammer Online. Hopefully it doesn't die in the ass as well, but you never know.

Business likes stupid people, they make more money off them. Why should MMORPG developers not go with the flow? 

 

Unknown

Originally posted by fl_fubar




C) WoW players will complain it's different and won't convert

     Depending on what market NCsoft is going for. People gotta remember that the majority of WoW subscribers are Chinese, Korean, Japanese. Those 3 countries have the highest subscription rate. It is very difficult to capture that market since Blizzard has it pretty well consumed due to their obsession with Starcraft so they will buy almost any blizzard product. Now possibly this is the market they are going after due to their Sci-Fi feel like an almost Starcraft ghostish, but I think Garriot just likes innovating the MMO genre since he was one of the originals who helped mold and create it.



     The people who won't play this game cuz its not like WoW will be a great relief since i'm tired of reading that everything is a WoW clone which is complete BS. I am sure accusations will arise when its released calling it a clone of it though just because people are ignorant of the facts.

hristod

I think the FPS Mouse Look is the way to go in most battles and while you solo because it gives you a great imersion and sense fast paced fight. But I've found it also to be a major pain in the arse when you try to select NPCs, switch a lever or just interact with any world object that is not a big ugly monster. Hope they at least allow an option to use mouse select when you are not in combat. Another problem is when you fight several mobs in a raid, being able to assign targets and select one of the monsters in the back can be a key to victory.

Originally posted by namelessbob 



     ... i'm tired of reading that everything is a WoW clone which is complete BS. I am sure accusations will arise when its released calling it a clone of it though just because people are ignorant of the facts.

Saddly pople will call TR a WoW clone mostly because a lot of people havn't played anything else. Oh, I just can't way the forum whines - 'I iz hunter gief Pet!'.

Ico

daemon

It cant be a WoW clone by far lol but from what I read and saw its a Neocron clone. Thats not a bad thing though.. Neocron was an awesome game made by a very small team with very little money back in the days when no more then 10 MMOs existed.

If they only had more money and a serious publisher.. damn what a GREAt game could've been.

With TB its a different story... they got the money, the publisher isnt a problem, they got alot better technology and a great dev team.

It might turn out to rock big time... and god knows we need a good SC-FI mmo.

Gammit100

Lag shouldn't be an issue.

You aim, you fire, "dice" get rolled.  If you don't aim well, you don't have as good of a chance at hitting your enemy.

Unknown

Originally posted by daemon

It cant be a WoW clone by far lol but from what I read and saw its a Neocron clone. Thats not a bad thing though.. Neocron was an awesome game made by a very small team with very little money back in the days when no more then 10 MMOs existed.

If they only had more money and a serious publisher.. damn what a GREAt game could've been.

With TB its a different story... they got the money, the publisher isnt a problem, they got alot better technology and a great dev team.

It might turn out to rock big time... and god knows we need a good SC-FI mmo.

Its only a semi-Neocron clone.  Neocron is very much like Deus Ex in its interface.  Its third person perspective is awful, and really should be played first person.  Whereas TB is being designed with third person intended as the main interface.

Also in Neocron the targeting sounds quite bit richer than TB will be.  It sounds like TB will essentially be similar to the auto-hit style of the psi-modules in Neocron, which was much easier than dealing with pistols/rifles reticle accuracy stuff based on skills/gun mods/movement/distance.

Also Neocron levels were much more FPS like and the spawns were more FPS like.  I think TB is going for more targets and more group support..  Neocron clearly has some sort of path weighting AI, because its mobs hug walls and hide behind objects.   Usually in most MMORPGs things are made "difficult" by adding more mobs or by creating exceptional powers for a boss.  Neocron ddoes this too but adds in FPS environment effects as well.

I hope TB has something like that, but doubt they will capture the FPS environmental combat like Noecron does.  Crawling through the lowbie sewers, really is like crawling through the sewer, rather than having it just being a quite large instance and the only interesting thing about the environment is which path to take and where the spawns are.  With Neocron you have corner bouncing grenades, firing from the top of a ladder, cramped spaces, obstructions etc etc.  Much more like an FPS.

Heck Neocron even has damage done to different body parts and running/jumping require stamina(and stamin a amount as part of you skills/stats).  These MMORPGs they just won't do that.  You can jump forever in WoW, not in Neocron.   I bet you can jump forever in TB too.  Different people run at different speeds, jump different heights and for different durations.  Most MMORPGs are just plain scared of that.  Drugs actually make you stumble and blur your vision.

Neocron just has a focus on environmental effects that most MMORPGs simply do not understand or appreciate because its coming from the POV of creating a Deus Ex MMO.  Rather than an over-the-head baldur's gate MMO.  Most MMORPGs might as well be isometric, some essentially are isometric with a camera rotation.

Unfortunately I think TB will only half way capture any of that or just won't capture any of it all and it will essentially be isometric with jump and aiming.  I seriously doubt you will be able to have your pilot friend drop you off on top of a mountain while you blast things with a sniper rifle or that you will be able to shoot at things from the middle of a ladder.  Heck in Neocron flying mobs actually fly in 360 degrees, they aren't ground mobs with a hover animation like most MMORPG.  It has a fundamentally different design philosophy.

 

 

But for those who don't know Neocron actually has a place called Garriot's Cafe in the game world.